A National Election That’s Really 51 Separate Contests
Each state sets its own election rules. That's not a good thing.
AP (“Florida has nearly all ballots counted on Election Day, while California can take weeks. This is why.“):
In the 2020 presidential election, Florida reported the results within a few hours of poll close of more than 99% of ballots cast.
In California, almost one-third of ballots were uncounted after election night. The state was making almost daily updates to its count through Dec. 3, a full month after Election Day.
This wasn’t unusual or unexpected.
California, the nation’s most populous state, is consistently among the slowest to report all its election results. Florida, the third-most populous state, is generally among the first to finish.
The Constitution sets out broad principles for electing a national government and leaves the details to the states. The choices made by state lawmakers and election officials as they sort out those details affect everything from how voters cast a ballot, how quickly the tabulation and release of results takes place, how elections are kept secure and how officials maintain voters’ confidence in the process.
The gap between when California and Florida are able to finalize their count is the natural result of election officials in the two states choosing to emphasize different concerns and set different priorities.
Lawmakers in California designed their elections to improve accessibility and increase turnout. Whether it’s automatically receiving a ballot at home, having up until Election Day to turn it in or having several days to address any problems that may arise with their ballot, Californians have a lot of time and opportunity to vote. It comes at the expense of knowing the final vote counts soon after polls close.
“Our priority is trying to maximize participation of actively registered voters,” said Democratic Assemblymember Marc Berman, who authored the 2021 bill that permanently switched the state to all-mail elections. “What that means is things are a little slower. But in a society that wants immediate gratification, I think our democracy is worth taking a little time to get it right and to create a system where everyone can participate.”
[…]
Florida’s election system is geared toward quick and efficient tabulation. Coming out of its disastrous 2000 presidential election, when the U.S. Supreme Court settled a recount dispute and George W. Bush was declared the winner in the state over Al Gore, the state moved to standardize its election systems and clean up its canvass, or the process of confirming votes cast and counted.
Republican Rep. Bill Posey, who as state senator was the sponsor of the Florida Election Reform Act of 2001, said the two goals of the law — to count all legal votes and to ensure voters are confident their votes are counted — were accomplished by mandating optical ballot scanners in every precinct. That “most significant” change means no more “hanging chads” in Florida. The scanners read and aggregate results from paper ballots, immediately spitting back any that contain mistakes.
Florida’s deadlines are set to avoid having ballots arrive any later than when officials press “go” on the tabulator machines. The state has a receipt deadline for its absentee ballots, which means ballots that do not arrive by 7 p.m. local time on Election Day are not counted, regardless of when they were mailed.
Michael T. Morley, a professor of election law at Florida State University College of Law, pointed out that Florida election officials may begin processing ballots, but not actually count them, before polls close. That helps speed up the process, especially compared with states that don’t allow officials to process mail ballots before Election Day.
Given that President is a national-level office, it seems only reasonable that there should be uniform rules for voting and counting. And, given efforts in recent years to discredit the legitimacy of our elections, there’s good reason to emphasize fast, accurate counting.
While I continue to have some misgivings about the fact that Election Day has become Election Month in parts of the country, the general trend toward inclusivity is a good one. But it’s perfectly reasonable to have a deadline that allows counting of ballots on Election Night. Florida’s mechanism that allows validation of ballots as they come in, therefore, strikes me as one that should be copied.
The different rules are compounded by the fact that, for a variety of reasons, Republican-leaning precincts tend to be counted before Democratic-leaning ones. This leads to the so-called Red Mirage, which makes it perfectly understandable for those rooting for a Republican win to feel like something amiss is happening when Democrats inevitably close the gap and win close contests.
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Or Republicans could pull their collective head out of their collective wazoo and realize that what they’re looking at on election night is a mirage and stop whining about election fraud because their leadership can make money off stoking their fears.
@TheRyGuy:
You say a lot of dumb shit, but this is pretty much the dumbest shit you’ve ever said.
Wow, you surpassed the previous dumbest shit with even dumber shit IN THE SAME COMMENT! It’s incredible how you so skillfully combine utter shrieking idiocy with the purest unadulterated bullshit!
Bonus points for being blatant whataboutism entirely unrelated to the subject of the post. Congratulations, I guess.
Whenever a Republican starts talking about rules and process, it’s a lead in to proposing something they know can’t be defended on its own merits, so a smoke screen is necessary to claim they’re being forced into this unfortunate stance by a love of process.
In this case supporting the federal imposition of Republican voter suppression campaigns on blue states.
@Stormy Dragon: While there are certainly some voter suppression efforts in Florida, including a hard-to-defend interpretation of the mandate to allow felons who have served their time to vote, none of the things that make counting on Election Night a piece of cake would seem to qualify. Almost all Western democracies manage to get their votes counted the same day.
@James Joyner:
Almost all Western democracies don’t have a major party with an interest in creating the conditions necessary for the creation and spreading of lies about election integrity.
For example, the rules the GOP legislature put in place in Pennsylvania that prohibit simply pre-flattening of mail ballots in preparation for counting on Election Night. That rule is specifically intended to create the “red mirage” you talk about in the post.
@TheRyGuy:
You need to get back on your meds and stay on them – your brain won’t cure itself.
@TheRyGuy:
Considering that, by law, many states don’t allow counting of mail in ballots until after Election Day, you really should start questioning where you get your “information” (and outrage) from. But I suspect you won’t.
@TheRyGuy:
Tell us you know nothing about election law and you are staying willingly ignorant about it without telling us you know nothing about election law and you are staying willingly ignorant about it.
Serious if you are upset with that then you are upset in many places with the Republican party who intentionally makes this impossible. The worst example is in battleground state Pennsylvania where the Republican led legislature has repeatedly defeated bills that allow counting of absentee and mail in ballots.
See: https://www.npr.org/2024/09/26/nx-s1-5111886/pennsylvania-mail-in-ballot-lawsuit-2024-election
Likewise Republicans demand a shift to hand counted ballots to ensure “election integrity” makes election night results essentially impossible (and increases error rates to boot).
Well, I think there’s another reason that California takes its time. It’s in the Pacific time zone. And it’s a foregone conclusion, an easy call from early returns. Nobody sits there staring at the TV wondering which way it will jump on election night.
@TheRyGuy: As a side note: It’s amazing to me that you can so proudly and confidently write such ignorant drivel (and MAGA talking points) and at the same time cannot summon the courage to say you are Team Trump.
Talk about an enthusiasm gap.
My vote is already “counted”. Last Thursday, the 2nd day of early voting. Of course, all the feedback was that my vote had been counted when I scanned the ballot, not what the “magic box” had recorded.
And I live in a voter ID state. This time I got “voter suppression” when the lady mentioned my ID was old (got to get a new license next Spring after 8 years). When I mentioned I’d lost weight she pushed back “you’ve lost weight too?” It was amusing.
But my second only election memory, after the big machines with actual levers and you saw the number change on the machine was hearing the news reporting how a few more boxes of ballots had been found in a poll worker’s trunk that had been overlooked when they unloaded the others she’d transported. Basically, there have always been “found” ballots and late counts.
@James Joyner: As has been noted before here, we have many, many more races on an individual ballot (our precinct has a two sided legal size ballot and only one voter initiative) than other democracies.
Even with computers and optical scanners this complexity results in processing delays. At my precinct it can take an optical scanner 30 seconds for each ballot to be validated and counted when it is a big ballot, vs. 10 seconds on a normal ballot. That can create long lines on Election Day as voters, who have finished filling in the boxes on their ballot, queue up to put the ballot into the scanner.
If a state doesn’t allow preprocessing of absentee or mailed in ballots (see PA) the processing time alone can cause significant delays.
@JKB:
Which was also true of the big green mechanical boxes everyone seems to have a nostalgic attachment to, or the way ballots were submitted for the first election under the Constitution.
Weird how these systems have always had a trust and verify aspect.
BTW, depending on the State (and sometimes county) you are in, the electronic scanning machines create multiple audit trails (some even on paper). And I believe all states preserve the paper ballots after scanning now.
@JKB: It really frosts me when people say things like “Of course, all the feedback was that my vote had been counted when I scanned the ballot, not what the “magic box” had recorded.”
You clearly have no idea how these elections are run, how an audit trail is created and tested, how dedicated the poll workers and election staff are, and what safeguards are in place. It is not like these workers (GOP, Dem and non-affiliated) are earning Elon Musk type money…they are doing it because they believe in elections and doing it right.
If you were **really** interested in this issue you would be a volunteer at a polling place where you could experience and learn all about the process and procedures. Instead, you prefer to post your conspiracies here and show your ignorance.
@JKB:
You picked your thread carefully didn’t you? Scared to defend your cult leader. What a weak little man, you are.
Is RyGuy the sock puppet for Jenos? His ability to keep f*cking that laptop chicken reminds me of Jenos’s old habit of trying to make Fetch happen.
I have a close friend who has volunteered to work elections for the past three decades and is now the chief election judge (essentially, the manager) for his district, which is in a battleground state. I asked him if he ever gets grief from Trumpers and he said that as soon as someone comes in complaining about fraud and whatnot he has trained the poll workers to immediately ask them to volunteer as they always have a shortage. They, of course, never take them up on that but it does shut them up.
@JKB: In my state, the total number of ballots received at the polling place are reconciled with how many voters got a ballot, how many ballots were voted, how many spoiled ballots (voter makes mistake, makes mark outside boxes, etc) were replaced (the spoiled ones are kept in a separate envelope to continue the audit trail) and how many were unused. In addition each ballot that gets handed out is counted by two judges who initial each and every ballot.
Moreover, the optical scanner prints tallies at the end of the voting time and one is posted for the public (and media/candidates) to view. (These printed tallies reflect what is on the memory “sticks” inside the scanner (which are locked in to the scanner with tamper proof seals)). In addition, our state, like Matt says, keeps the paper ballots that were scanned.
As a result, you can see by precinct on election night how many total votes were scanned and who those votes went to. The “magic box” allows you to keep your vote secret when you scan but the data and the paper ballot all are there to ensure what you voted is what was recorded.
@MarkedMan:
The common features of a MAGAt: ignorance, dishonesty, hypocrisy and cowardice. No wonder they need a fuhrer. The weak need a leader, even when he’s a senile, dribbling piece of human garbage. Like to like.
@James R Ehrler: The combination of motivated reasoning, ignorance, and Dunning Krueger is the toxic mix that has launched a thousand conspiracy theories.
Once I finish basing leaves I am going to write about that for another post.
@James R Ehrler: Only two pages? I wish we had that. I printed out the ballot for my precinct here in Texas. It was five pages. We elect judges, sheriffs, constables, justices of the peace on top of the usual presidents, senators, representatives, state representatives and senators and usually a half dozen tax rates and constitutional amendments.
We print out the ballot and fill it out at home. Take it with us to the voting place and enter our choices by touchscreen. By going in prepared we can get through quickly. But it is amazing how many people just show up at the voting site and are looking at the ballot for the first time. No wonder there are lines that take hours to get through.
@Scott: Ours are legal size pages but 5 pages, wow. We use an optical scanner with ball point pens so the other issue is it takes voters a long time in the booth to color in their choice for so many races. Still, I prefer this method to a touchscreen unless the touchscreen prints out a paper ballot with the marked selections that you can review and then put in an optical scanner.
@James R Ehrler: That is exactly what the touchscreen machine does. Prints out completed ballot which you can then review and then you feed it into scanner. The ballot is then retained in the scanner as a backup in case of some error. We use ExpressVote by Election Systems and Software. It also establishes Voting Centers so you can vote anywhere in the county not just in your precinct. We even have a You Tube video
@Scott: That sounds like a great system. Being untied to pre-printed ballots and therefore a specific precinct is really convenient for voters!
Coloring in the boxes with a ball point pen is also a real hassle. Some voters try and use a marker but because our ballots are two sided that can cause ballots to be rejected because of bleed through (look like marks in wrong places or too many votes in a race).
@Matt Bernius:
Do you frequently base leaves? And what that might be, exactly?
I’m more interested in getting a federal right to vote, with strict regulations on when people can be purged from voter rolls than in making sure votes are all counted within 20 minutes of the polls closing. Strict requirements on when licensing offices are open, if id is required, etc.
(I like Washington State’s “so long as it has the postmark!” rule, as it allows me to put my ballot in at the very last minute, and then know that on all of the too close to call races there’s at least one vote pushing it my way)
@MarkedMan: I assume he is basting leaves. Probably some weird vegetarian dish.
@Matt Bernius:
Even though they were certainly the least accurate mechanical system ever in wide use (and possibly worse than hand counting if maintenance had been shirked). They were notorious for undercounting, a problem that got worse as all the little gears got worn down and prone to slipping.
@JKB:
Now we know your lying:
The big machines with levers NEVER displayed numbers changing.
@James R Ehrler: Last time I voted in Washington, they were using pencils with soft lead and some sort of a marker in it. Very easy to mark quickly. Now it’s all vote by mail, so you’re on your own for marking.
@Bobert: Yeah, I don’t recall the tabulation presenting on the machine either. I vaguely recall that when you pulled the lever locking your vote and resetting the machine for the next voter that there was a total votes tabulation above that master lever, but I wouldn’t swear to it under penalty of perjury or anything. And I remember punch cards in one election only and way before 2000. IIRC, Washington abandoned them because the chads had to be removed by hand too often. The instructions said that we were to inspect the card to make sure that all the punches had been punched through.
Wife and I in Ohio have voted by absentee ballot for many years, and the process in our county has worked flawlessly (additionally the OH SoS claims that absentee ballots are the first to be tallied and reported).
HOWEVER, the past two presidential elections there was a problem with absentee ballots in that the “county” did not actually mail the ballots on the date they claimed they had mailed it to me.
As of today, our ballots have not arrived even though the “track you vote” says they were mailed on Oct 8.
The reason is that the printer that was hired by the county only mailed about 50% of the ballots that they were hired to print and mail. But the printer notified the county that all the ballots had been printed and mailed.
The Ohio law allows each individual county to choose their own printer to produce and mail absentee ballots.
I am now told by the county that our ballots will be mailed to us on the 25th of Oct.
(Is it just a coincidence that in both of the late arriving ballots, Trump’s name was on the ballot?)
@Just nutha ignint cracker:
Since they’re sitting on my desk any way, I grab one of my pens with the archival black ink to mark my ballot: uv- and water- and alcohol-proof :^)
@Just nutha ignint cracker: I very vaguely recall that pulling levers in NY caused numbers to show — but the number of the lever you pulled. I wouldn’t swear to it.
And this is also the type of memory that people get wildly wrong, as the expectations are stronger than the memory, so I wouldn’t call it lying if there were no numbers.
But I vaguely remember the very physical act of pulling levers changing something. Maybe it just showed a color to say “yup, we got something for this vote.” But that might just be because Ms. KB’s description struck a random chord and now I am trying to fit it to my memory.
@Bobert:
That sounds like fraud to me. And fraud that interferes with a federal election sounds like a federal crime, but I don’t know.
just glad I live in a small suburban area south of PDX. No mayoral election this time, 2 city council elections. Half a dozen rural/water/fire districts. A handful of judicial elections. OTOH…
Ranked choice has hit PDX, which includes umpteen candidates for Mayor, and the various city council positions. (well, not really, it only seems like it). 19 separate candidates for mayor, 100+ for 12 positions. I can hear my grandmother’s voice in my head, mumbling “Judas Iscariot on roller skates!”
Of course, YMMV. God (in whatever form you view/worship/don’t) help us all.
@TheRyGuy: I used to work on campaigns, so I say this with a fair amount of authority:
You have no idea WTF you are talking about.