Fiery Politics
Letting wild claims drive the policy discourse.
USAT reports: ‘Conditions’ should be placed on California wildfire aid: House Speaker Mike Johnson.
While talking to reporters on Monday, the Louisiana Republican said that there should be “conditions” on proposed federal aid to California following the deadly fires still burning in the Los Angeles region.
“Obviously there’s been water resources management, forest management mistakes, all sorts of problems. And it does come down to leadership and it appears to us that state and local leaders were derelict in their duty in many respects,” Johnson told reporters at the Capitol. “So that’s something that has to be factored in. I think there should probably be conditions on that aid. That’s my personal view.”
Let me start with something that is obvious but worth underscoring. There is no doubt that mistakes were made prior to this fire because there will be mistakes in any human endeavor. The thing is that neither I, nor Johnson, know which particular mistakes were made and, more importantly, if any of those mistakes were ultimately relevant to the scale of the disaster. It seems almost impossible to suggest that Congress would know the appropriate remedies to attach as conditions for aid.
Worse, what Johnson is reacting to is not information from California. Instead, he is basically riffing off Trump’s social media and cable news complaints about water management in California.
You know, stuff like this.
That is just so much fantastical word salad. Also: anyone who knows even a passing amount about water disputes in California knows that the southern part of the state has no problem taking water from the northern part. Moreover, the notion that there is easily accessed water resources that are being refused is just nonsense. See, also, via PBS: Fact-checking misinformation about the Los Angeles wildfires and California water policy.
And so you get stuff like Johnson, or this from another GOP member of Congress.
Republican Sen. Ron Johnson of Wisconsin said in an interview with Newsmax that he would not vote for aid “unless we see a dramatic change in how they’re gonna be handling these things in the future … These are decisions Californian Democrats have made … It’s their fault.”
This is, of course, just echoing the party’s leader.
Trump said Wednesday that Newsom should resign as the fires raged and multiplied, posting on Truth Social: “One of the best and most beautiful parts of the United States of America is burning down to the ground. It’s ashes, and Gavin Newscum (sic) should resign. This is all his fault!!!”
I know this behavior is nothing new for Trump, and is just a reminder of what we are in for for the next four years, but it still is depressing to note the ignorant and juvenile irresponsibility of it all.
Speaking of ignorant, more from the president-elect.
“No more,” Trump said on X. “Get your act together Governor. You don’t see close to the level of burn in other states.”
Somehow I figured that was not the case, so like an actual adult who cares about facts, I looked it up.
Here are the top ten acres per state that burned in 2022 (source).
State | Number of fires | Number of acres burned |
Alaska | 595 | 3,110,976 |
New Mexico | 748 | 859,906 |
Texas | 12,571 | 671,800 |
Oregon | 2,117 | 456,082 |
Idaho | 1,088 | 436,733 |
Oklahoma | 2,811 | 385,133 |
California | 7,884 | 309,287 |
Washington | 1,492 | 173,659 |
Florida | 2,784 | 164,774 |
Montana | 2,087 | 137,509 |
Weirdly, it might just be that the vastness of Alaska coupled with its meager population means no one pays that much attention to fires there as opposed to, you know, densely populated areas in the country’s most populated state. Funny how that works.
Back to the initial issue: yes, let’s correct mistakes. Let’s learn lessons. But, of course, disaster aid is to deal with the results of disasters, not to be used as a cudgel to make political points.
Florida Democratic Rep. Jared Moskowitz responded to the remark in a post on X, saying: “This is a mistake.”
“If you start this, it will never end,” he said. “When Dems retake the House, they will condition aid to Florida and Texas. Disaster Aid must stay non partisan. I would fight democrats should they try and do this. The Speaker can find many other ways to hold people accountable.”
Indeed.
It’s been done before, Hurricane Sandy and New York come to mind.
Also, Hurricane Maria-Puerto Rico.
Republicans are pigs.
MAGA’s are terrible neighbors. They are the loudmouth assholes on the end of a bar that have accomplished nothing in their entire lives, but offer a loud, obnoxious and inevitably negative opinion about everyone actually trying to do something. And when something goes wrong for a neighbor, instead of asking “How can I help”, it’s all “Well said you should’ve done this that and the other thing!”
Just reinforces that my wife and I won’t be retiring to any Trump state or county.
Is any Democrat going to stand up and tell Mike Johnson that Katrina was the fault of the people and government of Louisiana?
Seriously, where are the Democrats who are going to stand up and and tell each and every one of these Republican maggot-brains to ESAD?
Again, this reminds me that I’m going to have to try harder to understand why these malevolent low-value MAGA voters and politicians hate me. I mean, how are we going to heal, end the partisan divide and unite, if I don’t understand why they hate us?
I don’t like this rhetoric at all. I’m disappointed in Mike Johnson.
AND, I have learned to pay far more attention to what politicians DO, rather than to what they SAY.
Mike Johnson is engaging in rhetoric that is not good, but he is echoing Trump. Which he needs to do to keep his job. His remarks commit him to no particular course of action, though. “conditions” can be very benign things. Or not.
I don’t know what is going to happen. I do know that is valuable to watch what politicians DO as opposed to what they SAY.
And my handful of remaining conservative friends are losing their minds over a claim being made on right wing sites that suggests “the government” is going to pay for 100% of the rebuilding efforts in California while they have “forgotten” the Carolinas.
Notably, the news release said Biden was committing to covering 100% of the initial response efforts.
This is why reading comprehension is so important. Initial response efforts is NOWHERE NEAR the same thing as rebuilding.
We are now considering CA when the family moves to a blue state. SIL’s mother moved to San Diego a few years ago. She’s very maga, but she loves it there. Hates the south.
I would like to make the move before California secedes and forms alliances with Canada and Mexico. You think property values were high before, Canmexica will be the place to be.
There was also a torrent of lies and BS from the right (including Trump, of course) about the recent hurricane that hit NC. Until we find a way to ensure that such people pay pay a price for their lies, rather than, say, electing them president, this garbage will continue. The American people need to do better.
@Michael Reynolds:
I haven’t been here in a minute…nice to see you are as pithy as always!!!
In a rational world it would be laughable when dimwitted partisan clowns like Ron Johnson and Tommy Tuberville threaten to withhold aid to California. But when said clowns are taking their cue from their partisan clown president-elect it’s no laughing matter. Good and decent people are suffering and these jackasses are spiking the football. Ron Johnson and Tuberville have an excuse – they are both stupid. Mike Johnson is just a power-hungry political whore.”
@al Ameda:
Still don’t understand that most Trump Republicans are irredeemable, amoral scumbags? What’s taking so long?
Hillary accurately identified these people as “deplorable” nearly a decade ago. Back then, she said probably half of Trumpers were so afflicted. Only thing that changed, the percentage is now higher. Much.
The entire Trumpist Republican project depends on alternative facts and disparagement of expertise. If Trump (or his minions) acknowledge even once that someone/anyone might know more about a subject than they do, that deference by itself undermines the Trump Alone Will Fix It framework.
It certainly warms my heart to see the same epidemiology experts now flexing their fire-science knowledge. (How long before Ivermectin is labelled a cure for brush-fires?)
– Hydrants – systems are meant for one, maybe two, house fires at a time, with 2-3 trucks each. Over 8,000 homes have burned. After 10 minutes, with 100 mph winds, the fire departments were reduced to mere spectators.
– Forest Management – 20,000 acres, plus, have burnt. Who was going to, as Trump said, rake those forest floors? Who was going to pay the cost? And what were they to do with all the brush they cleaned out?
Unpopular statement; I really don’t have a lot of empathy for arrogant people who build multi-million dollar homes in a fire-zone, or a hurricane zone for that matter, and then label themselves a humanitarian crisis.
As of December there were still ~10 missing people in NC, who will soon be totally forgotten, while we fawn over the “Homes of the Stars.”
Referring to the hills where the Pacific Palisades fire started as “forest” borders on ridiculous. It’s scrub at best. Calling it “forest” gives a very mistaken impression of what it is, and how it might be managed. Maybe some of the other fires down there are in what might be reasonably called a “forest”. Look up some photographs of Skull Rock. I can’t see any trees anywhere there.
Meanwhile, best wishes to those down south having to cope with this. We up here in the Bay have a friendly rivalry with y’all, but that is not in force here. Not one bit.
The last major fire in the LA area that set the previous record for properties damaged was in 2008. It was associated with strong Santa Ana winds and dry conditions. The record before that was in 1961. So it’s simply not true that LA keeps having major out of control fires. It takes a combination of a drought and major Santa Ana winds to get a fire like this. With those kinds of winds even if homeowners keep their borders clear it wont matter as the winds will blow embers and burning material into their yards. Just like with hurricanes and tornados you can build to lower risks but nature can outstrip our building efforts.
Rebuilding will be interesting. First, let’s hope LA lets up on some of its rules that makes building slow and difficult. Second, it really is a fire prone area. Their prior efforts and planning kept them from having a fire with major property damage for many years but this time nature won. Will they upgrade standards to reduce fire risk? It looked like a lot fo those homes had outdoor wooden decks as an example. Do they outlaw those? Do they require building with fire resistant materials? Also, they need to let insurance companies charge what it really costs to cover the risks of building in those areas. (We should do the same with homes in hurricane areas.)
Steve
@Daryl:
I am fairly sympathetic to at least one sentiment here – I don’t like seeing people get more attention simply because they are rich or live in a media center and their misfortune is so much more photogenic. That really does suck.
That doesn’t mean I want to kick them in the balls, or deny funding them, though.
Also, when Katrina happened, I had a cousin who lives in South Dakota who complained about “why did they put a city there anyway?”. I told him that there is no possible world which doesn’t have a city where New Orleans is. It is at the mouth of an extremely important river. There was always going to be a city there. The residents are going to do what they think they have to do to get by, and sometimes they will have been wrong about that.
The same goes for Pacific Palisades. House have been there for quite a long time, actually. And there isn’t a possible world where nobody builds houses there. It seems foolish right now, yeah. I expect most of them to go back and rebuild afterwards. I don’t think that’s because they ar e fools, but that they have a different assessment of the potential risks and rewards. Some people engage in hang-gliding after all.
Maybe that’s not what you would do. People are different and make different choices.
My guess is that @Daryl is actually @Jack AKA Drew, AKA Guarneri.
Yes, forest fires are a common thing (in the West). But, there’s only one state where a major population center in inadequately protected.
@Jay L Gischer:
I don’t think we should deny aid to anyone. I do urge perspective.
The problem with Katrina and with LA is arrogance believing that nature can be overcome. Good luck with that.
@Michael Reynolds:
I hurts me that you think that.
Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, North Carolina, Maryland, Delaware, Texas, Louisiana, Alabama and Mississippi are under threat from hurricanes. Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas and Nebraska are under threat from tornadoes. Louisiana, Mississippi, Arkansas, Missouri, Illinois, Iowa, Wisconsin and Minnesota are under threat of flooding from the Mississippi River.
The USA has dangerous weather.
Republicans in all those states should take a look in their mirrors, fucking hypocrites. I’ll repeat: Republicans are pigs.
@Daryl: He was totally out of line. He must know that they are not pigs, they are fucking pigs.
The idea that California is going through this disaster and the Republicans are pushing lie after lie, and are even trotting out their big gun that it’s DEI’s fault, is beyond disgusting. And as usual, the soon-to-be rapist in chief is leading the charge.
@Daryl:
Thanks for the confirmation, Drew.
You’ve been absent because you’re a coward. You don’t want to have to justify your Rapist-In-Chief’s lunacy on cabinet choices or invasions of Greenland, but you’re a nasty little prick who has a need to attack, so when you think you have an opportunity, up you pop, thinking ‘Oooh ooh, here’s my chance to be a POS troll!’
I know we can’t count on a Newsmax host to gently correct dt as he emits a stream of BS with some easily refutable specific claims, such as his feeble-minded assertion that water flows southward from Canada to LA (because rivers must flow downward on the map, I suppose). But can some reporters at least follow up Mike Johnson’s “Obviously there’s been water resources management, forest management mistakes,…” with some data or official statement that LA has plenty of water* for fighting fires, as can be seen with these helicopters refilling from one of several reservoirs near the Palisades fire.
*The challenge is obviously how to get the water to the fire. There’s enough water in LA to supply a Chinook helicopter for several million air drops, but there are only so many aircraft and they can’t fly when the winds are too strong, when the water may be needed most. As noted, municipal water systems are not designed for too many hydrants to be open at a time. Firefighting uses a lot water, even when limited to one facility or one neighborhood, so there are certainly contingency plans in place for fighting widespread fires, and water tanker trucks, for example, would be an element of those plans.
I don’t not even understand how wildfires exist in California, when “They” control the weather. Maybe it’s cuz “They” “Them” can only control the weather near Red states…yeah, that must be why.
@Michael Reynolds:
You couldn’t be more wrong.
Re-read my comment…explicitly criticizing the MAGA claims re water and undergrowth. I do believe we should question the funding of expensive housing in danger zones but that’s not at all a partisan position.
Whatever…
@Daryl:
Well, then, I apologize if you’re not that particular creep, but a different idjit. See my list of places where people shouldn’t build homes, and yet, do.
Then, provide any evidence that we have forgotten Asheville so we can fawn over Hollywood.
@Michael Reynolds:
And we shouldn’t subsidize high-end housing in any of those areas, acting as a de-facto insurance company.
As for Asheville, when was the last report you saw from there? We, as a society, have the collective memory of an ant. Oh, squirrel…
@Michael Reynolds: “Then, provide any evidence that we have forgotten Asheville so we can fawn over Hollywood.”
And while we’re not forgetting Asheville, let’s also not forget that one reason that so many people in the back areas of NC have gone without federal aid is because they listened to their fellow Republicans who were telling them that FEMA is a giant conspiracy that is going to steal their land if they take any money.
@Lucysfootball:
Agreed, f’ing pigs. Led by Diaper Donnie, the biggest f’ing pig of all.
@wr:
X 1,000
@Daryl: ‘What America should look like:’ loss in the Altadena fires, and a hard road to recovery (USA Today)
@Michael Reynolds:
Slow down Michael–@Daryl has been with us for years. And that isn’t remotely Jack’s writing style (not to mention Daryl acknowledged things like climate change as being real).
@Michael Reynolds: I have to say I think you misinterpreted Darryl’s comments.
@DK:
Thank you for posting that article. LA is an incredibly diverse area, and there are a lot of people who are not remotely rich or mansion-owning who are being directly and indirectly impacted by this in lots of ways.
Some of those are folks I have the privilege of calling coworkers.
L.A. County wildfires leave diverse and historic Altadena in ashes and rubble (NBC News)
@DK:
Point taken.
What I’ve always loved about this joint; nuanced discussion.
@Matt Bernius:
Thank you.
@Matt Bernius: Indeed. The full scope L.A.’s geography and demography is difficult to grasp if you live here — let alone if not. One can see why the film industry settled here. L.A. runs the gamut — mountain terrain, wilderness, beaches, desert, palm trees, urban cityscape to rural, and everything in between. People from all over the country and world, from homeless to the most monied people alive. With most in between.
L.A. County’s pop. is bigger than 39-40 whole states, depending on yearly migration; there’s more Republican voters in blue Los Angeles than in many so-called red states in their entirety.
So no, the fires have not just affected rich celebrities and rich liberals. Even in the Palisades, there are housekeepers, gardeners, service workers, and employees of small businesses that cater to the wealthy who have lost livelihoods. Not to mention all those who are “house rich” thanks to inheritance or buying 20+ years ago, but not so much in monthly cashflow.
Trumpers may have done well in the rest of country, but this was not the case in California where multiple members of Johnson’s small majority lost. He would do well to remember that, before he wipes out more.
@joe: Folks in Phoenix would like a word.
Actually, there are lots of areas in which Wildland-Urban Interface indicates that fires could put communities at risk.
It makes us feel safer, I suppose, to assume that these are problems for someone else “but I’m safe.”
Flooding can happen anywhere, and fires, while most common out west, are a risk to any region that experiences drought.
There but for the grace of God go I.
Weren’t there recordings or transcripts of Trumps COVID response team mulling over not providing relief to Democrat-run cities ? Or is that my imagination?
Just for the record, there are still ongoing articles about the aftermath of Helen in places like Asheville. At link is an NPR article from a week ago and there are a number of other pieces being done, especially by who live or lived there that are being published. The one at Planetzian 2 days ago was well written and interesting as it was from the POV of someone who had only recently moved to Asheville.
https://www.npr.org/sections/shots-health-news/2025/01/08/nx-s1-5250222/hurricane-helene-western-north-carolina-mental-health-ptsd-trauma
Steve
@DK:
I was of course speaking in a mode of total sarcasm. Sorry that didn’t come through.
I ahould have used the universal symbol – /s – to make my sarcasm clear.
I gotta wonder. If you eliminate all the places to live that have earthquakes, hurricanes, wildfires, tornados, or extreme blizzards or ice storms, where is there left in the US to live?
Can we stop the second guessing?
@Daryl: I understand. I was thinking you were Daryl’s other brother.
@gVOR10: How can you say that? MR knows everything. Just ask him.
@Jay L Gischer:
Okay. But only in the case of wildfires does human occupation exacerbate the problem. Development brings with it fire hazards, and landslides too. Development does not make tornados or hurricanes.
I want to make a joke about trailer parks creating tornadoes, but it undermines my point, so I won’t.
@just nutha:
That’s Darryl.
@Jen: indeed. I attended a few sessions of “Cascadia Rising,” an ongoing series of trainings for governments and first responders in the Pacific Northwest to plan how to prepare for the unthinkable: a major earthquake, tsunami, or volcanic eruption.
I recall the speaker saying that in this part of the country, we tend not to think about emergency events as often as we should, because we’re usually spared extreme heat, freezing temperatures, and severe storms. But that leads us to ignore the fact that we’re on a major fault line, close to the ocean, and living in the shadow of several volcanoes that are overdue for an eruption.
@Daryl: My bad. Hard to keep y’all straight.
I’m surprised Trump didn’t campaign with a promise to build a beautiful pipeline from Canada to Los Angeles, and Canada would pay for it. How he thinks California could build it is a mystery – does he think the state borders Canada?
One of the many evils of Trumpism is that MAGA people, sadly now including the majority of Republicans in Congress, either credulously believe all the creative fiction Trump dreams up or at least pretend to. Positions are almost guaranteed to be wrong if they’re grounded in false data. The latest example – apart from the fires nonsense – is his claim that “35,000 Americans died building the Panama Canal”. I’ve seen this regurgitated several times lately as if it’s uncontested truth. Yet it’s complete nonsense. The canal was mainly built by colored labor imported from the Caribbean. More than 20,000 of them died during the failed French attempt. The Americans who picked up the pieces lost a reported 5,900. In other words Trump’s number was plucked out of the air, and few of the dead workers were Americans. But don’t expect MAGA people to leave the make-believe world they’ve created any time soon.
@Matt Bernius: Let me second Matt: Daryl is not Jack (or Drew) and his writing style is quite different.
I think MR is just misinterpreting. It happens.