Hump Day Forum
Steven L. Taylor
·
Wednesday, June 18, 2025
·
122 comments
About Steven L. Taylor
Steven L. Taylor is a Professor Emeritus of Political Science and former College of Arts and Sciences Dean. His main areas of expertise include parties, elections, and the institutional design of democracies. His most recent book is the co-authored
A Different Democracy: American Government in a 31-Country Perspective. He earned his Ph.D. from the University of Texas and his BA from the University of California, Irvine. He has been blogging since 2003 (originally at the now defunct Poliblog).
Follow Steven on
Twitter and/or
BlueSky.
The title of the piece is Sarah McBride, the newly-elected trans member of the House, on Why the Left Lost on Trans Rights.
Pull quotes. An asterisk marks the start of each quote.
This all makes sense to me, of course, since it is exactly what I’ve been saying for years, generally earning attacks here. Not just the quotes but the general sense of what was a podcast with Ezra Klein. The malign radicalizing effect of social media. The rejection of persuasion. The overreach. The maximalism. The pushing of issues the public will absolutely reject. The assumption that trans could draft on gay marriage. But of course anything written on the subject by an old, White, straight, cis-male must be dismissed out of hand.
Sarah McBride agreeing with me does not make either of us right because – and here comes a very difficult idea for some – an argument is not right or wrong depending on who advanced it. An argument is right or wrong because it is, in itself, right or wrong. Judge the idea, not the person who had it.
The Florida headline of the day- Panthers repeat as Stanley Cup champions by beating the Oilers in 6 games
@Bill Jempty:
Congratulations. They were clearly the better team. I’m a Blackhawk’s fan since I was 9-10, but I have lived so much in Fl now I’ll nick a little satisfaction.
Chobani CEO Says Food System Needs Immigration to Function (Wall Street Journal)
About two-thirds of U.S. crop workers are immigrants, at least half are working illegally. So when Chamber of Commerce types lined up behind the taco’s “mass deportation now” campaign, what were they expecting?
Tucker Carlson Tells Bannon Israel-Iran Conflict Could ‘End Trump’s Presidency’ and ‘American Empire’
Lolololololololololol *gasp* lolololololololol
@Michael Reynolds: I listened to that podcast yesterday and you were the first person I wanted to recommend it to.
@Michael Reynolds:
There’s sense in McBride’s observations, but there is also this:
The cultural “outing” of the trans-world from the closet and into mainstream conscious, has allowed Americans to become acquainted with the issue, and more importantly, real trans people. And when we learn that people we know — a relative, a neighbor or clerk that we have periodic chats with, a performer we like, and old school chum— are trans, we have a choice: reject that relationship (regardless of how superficial) or make internal accommodation for the reveal, thereby keeping the relationship. This can happened subtly and incrementally, or in a rush of “revelation.”
This was the same process with our society’s opening up to homosexuality. It took time, with incremental steps forward and retreats backward. Ten years after the Stonewall riots, AIDS hit. Talk about retreat backward, I recall the deep vilification of that moment, driven by abject fear of this contagion we did not understand. You could especially hear this reactionary chatter among the fundamentalist Christian groups with some calling for extreme responses. And yet here we are. Homosexuality is far more accepted, tolerated, and integrated into open societal relations.
So what is different now?
There are differences at this moment: reactionary religious fundamentalism has gone mainstream as well, and has captured significant political representation. The intolerance coming from this group is on the rise, and essential to group identity, membership maintenence and growth, to provide “meaningful activity” to maintain a sense of “mission.” Economic imperative undergirds their endeavor. This is no small thing, no insignificant challenge going forward — to trans, to gays, even to unmarried cis couples or the act of divorce based upon the “rumblings” from Fundamentalism.
But as with unmarried cis couples and divorce, which were formally and widely scorned and negative sanctioned 70 years ago, these choices are now mainstream and spread throughout our social groupings.
That is not to say trans folk aren’t in for some rough treatment. They will have to vigorously defend their gains, and we will have to help them. After all, in a democracy, an attack on gender preference/identity, an attack on refugees, an attack on anyone’s access to resources that permit one to thrive as a human being, is an attack on us all.
@DK: There’s a vast amount of the US economy (and societal upkeep) that depends on undocumented immigrants. It’s been like that for a long time. Where were the collective voices of these industry leaders when their input could have mattered and shaped the political/policy dialog 10, 20 years ago?
They wait until now that we have balaclava shrouded goon squads smashing into workplaces and hauling off productive men and women in handcuffs to be deported to harsh prisons in other countries, often ripping families apart???? A bit late one might say.
With those truncheons, we smash ourselves in our own faces.
@Rob1:
Helping the right demonize immigrant workers — knowing manipulative xenophobia could elect Republicans and thus gain their industries deregulation, corporate socialism, and tax cuts.
The record profits investor class welfare kings have raked in, while paying slave wages and price gouging us, haven’t satisfied their rapacious greed.
Midnight at the Oasis
@DK:
Wait, whut???
Compare and contrast…
And…
Seems you can’t trust anything these f’er’s say unless they’re under oath.
@Daryl:
Not even when they’re under oath.
@Michael Reynolds: Michael,
I’m going to say a couple of things that may be unpopular. Political correctness, which I don’t try to practice, isn’t going to be practiced in what I have to say.
For 25 years I have written LGBT fiction most of which can be described by one or both of the two letters I have in bold. I sympathize with the community.
The American voting public isn’t very sophisticated . I’d say a majority don’t care a twit about trans rights. They also think trans people are freaks of nature.
A change of attitude is needed. I just think last year’s elections were a case of wrong timing. The voting public was concerned about the economy. By Democrats concentrating in any form on trans rights last year had the effect of causing those unsophisticated voters to push back against a policy they don’t care about.
What I just wrote may be unpopular but I think I’m right. Remember I judged last year’s elections pretty well.
@Michael Reynolds: It was a good interview and worth a listen.
@Bill Jempty:
The Supreme Court has just upheld a Tennessee law banning certain gender-affirming care for minors: surgery, puberty blockers, and hormone therapy.
@Bill Jempty:
Actually Harris avoided talking about Trans issues, but the Trump campaign advertising kept incessantly accusing her of talking about it, people believed the Trump ads. She would have been better off if she did talk abut those issues instead of letting the Trump campaign define her supposed obsession with them.
@DK:
They thought Trump was lying. A not unreasonable assumption. They thought he would, as with The Wall, do some token stuff and call it good while extending the Trump tax cuts and gutting regulation. They thought the monster they created was still tame.
@Daryl:
Maybe Carlson is having some sort of cognitive decline issue, and either can’t remember what he once said of Trump, or has forgotten who Trump is. Maybe the bowtie is too tight.
@gVOR10:
Fair. But that’s the problem with supporting a pathological liar like Trump. You never know in which direction they’re lying.
@DK:
Look at J. D. Vance. Not too long ago he was calling Trump Hitler. Now Vance is Trump’s vice-president.
How would MR react to an interview suggesting Jewish people are really to blame for the growth of antisemitism because they aren’t doing enough to accommodate the concerns of antisemites and it’s their obligation to convince everyone else they deserve to exist? He’d quite rightly completely flip his lid at the suggestion.
The type of arguments being leveled toward trans people would never be tolerated toward other minority groups, but the dirty secret is our society sees trans people as subhuman. Even most supposed allies deep down think we’re subhuman, the only difference is they look on us with pity rather than hate. But they ultimately agree with more aggressive transphobes that there’s something inherently disgusting about us.
And there’s also the lie that if we just accept our subhuman status like good little helots, someday we’ll be able to earn a full share. But that’s not how society works. Change doesn’t happen because of accommodating the status quo; it only comes from making the status quo so uncomfortable that it’s no longer a viable alternative.
The reality is you all want to exterminate us, because ultimately that’s what withholding access to medical care while you try to psychologically torture us into cisgenderness is: an extermination.
You just want us to die more quietly so you can maintain your pretense of benevolence while you murder us.
@Stormy Dragon:
Michael Reynolds has a trans daughter. I don’t think he wants trans people to die.
@Michael Reynolds:
I have spent years doing exactly this. It was pointless and worthless. She’s also an idiot if she thinks that marriage equality is built on solid ground it’s not.
There is simply nothing trans people can do. We can dance to the normie tune if were lucky enough to be well off pretty white girls like McBride and maybe we’ll be killed slowly. But the rest of us can’t.
Worthless and pointless.
@CSK:
My mother has a trans daughter and she most definitely wants me dead. Lots of parents despise their trans kids.
I worked in the landline telephone industry for 35 years. I don’t believe in Trump.
@CSK:
My dad has a trans child too. My dad thinks he’s super supportive. My dad is one of the most transphobic people I know.
Because it’s obvious I’m just an exception to him.
Anytime someone draws a line between themselves and trans people, my dad is invariably on the other side of that line talking about how trans people need to do more to fix this.
Some cheery news: According to The Atlantic, Tesla has lost about one-third of its executives since Elon decided to pal around with Trump.
@Beth:
I know. I feel awful for you for what you’ve suffered. But I don’t believe MR is one of the haters.
@CSK:
It’s just one step below Dred Scott.
@CSK:
I mean it’s literally the day our country legalized torturing trans children and his first reaction was to rush over here so he could dunk on Beth and I about how much trans people suck.
Of COURSE MR is a hater. There’s nothing he loves more in this world than dunking on people he thinks are beneath him.
@Kathy:
Indeed it is.
@Bill Jempty:
Maybe I missed something. I don’t recall the Democrats making trans rights the end-all centerpiece and singular election policy —- the media did, channeling the GOP’s strategy. And then subsequent to the results, hand-wringing Dems picked up that thread.
What I remember is Dems attempting to talk about economic issues and Trump’s unfitness for the Presidency as a felon, scam artist, and crank. But the media did not amplify those concerns as loudly as they blathered on about transgender bathrooms and athletes. For clicks. Yellow journalism lives.
@Bill Jempty: Again, a function of the nature of the Democrat Coalition where every faction MUST have a starring role in the campaign marketing. No faction is content to draft off the lead of other factions with relevant issues that election cycle. The result is a mosaic of nothing with no discernible picture. Ironically, it would take a stronger party to decide who is starring and who’s has a bit part.
For comparison, the Abortion nuts starred in 2016 for Trump and were beaten back in the basement in 2024–also by Trump. They are still getting things they want–despite not being allowed to kneecap Republicans in 2024 with a dissonant note in the Party marketing.
People largely are agnostic about Trans rights– until they intersect with children and sports. I sat at a kids sporting event a while back and over overheard two couples talking about Trans participation in sports. Not a very deep thinking discussion, nor was it derogatory of Trans people in general–but their perception on the unfairness of the middle male competitor who competes as a Trans Women and starts winning and/or breaking records. This is an edge case for sure, but it resonates with people in a way that is counterproductive to debate. A student of how the collective psyche works would have known the “high” ground was lost in terms of ability to persuade. Instead of finding a counter scenario that equally resonated; Dems pushed on–salting their own fields.
Which highlights another problem of the Dem Coalition, many of the factions only vote on their pet issues–which, if not stressed in the campaign, causes these people to stay home.
I like the concept of what David Hogg is trying to do–assert more party control of the Brand. A disaggregated collection of factions is not going to beat the Republican party in the way they need beating to reverse the damage they continue to do. Unfortunately, there is not the time for a thoughtful Dem restructuring–so the Russia strategy is the best bang for the buck–fracture the (Republican) alliance. The fissures are showing–they need hyper-agitating to keep a couple percent of the MAGA-adjacent home in 2026.
@Mister Bluster: back at ya
Rock the Casbah
@Jim X 32:
This is demonstrably untrue. If it were true, passing laws on sports would calm anti-trans sentiment, when in state after state we can see they only further inflames anti-trans sentiment
Once you concede that trans people are so inherently dangerous that including one in a recreational bowling league needs to be violently suppressed by the state, it becomes impossible to argue they shouldn’t be excluded from other parts of society.
@Stormy Dragon: I also have a trans daughter. Her opinion is that she wants to be treated equally at work and in general day to day life. She thinks the push in sports and at the K-12 level in locker rooms and bathrooms came too soon. Of course, she has always hated sports so her position on that has never surprised me. Anyway, we ended up having the justice delayed equals justice denied discussion and she thinks being able to work and make a living needs to be prioritized.
While I agree with comments above that the election was largely about inflation I live in a swing state (PA) and we were inundated with ads. An awful lot fo them were about trans people in sports. It’s pretty clear that internal GOP polls thought those ads were pretty effective.
Steve
@Stormy Dragon:
My mom is like that too. She cares deeply for all the poor trans people. Just not me. Honestly, she’s full of shit anyway. She cares for the concept of people, not actual people.
@CSK:
Whether he loves his daughter or not is between the two of them. I don’t presume to know and I hope for her sake he does. The broader point is, just because you have a trans kid, that doesn’t mean you actually care for them as a person and just because you care for your trans kid you care for trans people in general.
My cis partner is an ideal child for her parents, but they don’t actually give a shit about her as a person. She’s not a separate human worthy of respect.
For what it’s worth, I plan on listening to McBride. I think she’s wrong, fundamentally wrong, but I’ll listen. Everything I’ve ever read about her and from her indicates that she seems to think that if trans people are respectable and assimilate enough that we’ll magically be ok. We won’t. It’s simply not possible for us to be respectable or assimilate enough.
Again, I and lots of other trans people I know have been doing the hard work that McBride wants. It has been pointless.
@Stormy Dragon: You don’t have enough allies to make the status quo uncomfortable. Mostly because, if allies don’t sock puppet your position 100%, you accuse them of being no better than your enemy.
First MR wants to murder you, last month it was Gavin Newsome wanting to exterminate Trans people. WTF are you in a coalition that wants to kill you? If this is true, it’s better to split off and work amongst yourselves to achieve what you want.
So go right head with your outdated, tone-deft strategy to make people who spend 99.9% of their day thinking about the care of life “uncomfortable”. They’ll love you and vote the very way you want–I promise!
And again I’d note the dynamic here: SCOTUS drew a line between society and trans people and literally every cis person in the forum is lining up on the other side of the line to tell the trans people why this isn’t a big deal and we just need to accept that this is the way things are now.
While there is no single viewpoint on the topic of trans rights, even within the trans community, I believe it’s essential to let people in that community take the lead on articulating the policies they think are best for them.
It’s the “nothing about us without us thing.”
Put another way, even if I think the pragmatic position of “don’t push too fast, too soon” is correct, as a cis-gendered straight white dude, I’m not the one who should be leading that conversation. And I think whenever possible, it’s better to make that argument by citing/amplifying the words of people like Sarah McBride rather than taking the “here’s what I believe approach and look Sarah McBride thinks I’m right.”
Center the community, not yourself.
Let the community leaders be leaders.
And also be ok with the fact that other community leaders will disagree with whatever position you’re promoting. We need all types to move things forward.
@Stormy Dragon: Those are opportunities opened up by pushing against an issue that resonated in public opinion on high-level competitive sport–an edge case.
What are your priorities? To me, it sounds like the priority is “everything now.” Something no civil rights movement ever achieved.
If there were priories, more Trans kids would benefit from being able to bowl in rec league than for a middling male swimmer to break records competing as a Trans Woman in high-level competition. She hurt the cause of recreational Trans girls and women. And frankly, rec league sports could have been low enough hanging fruit to score a solid win. But again, faction of the Dem party are playing from an outdated script from the 60s civil rights movement. The status quo has adapted–and Dems have not.
As a comparison, the meeting in WWI between civil war tactics and modern war machinery caused long stalemates and massive casualties. The civil rights tactics of the 60s are no match for modern media technology.
“In your statement you assert that our actions, even though peaceful, must be condemned because they precipitate violence. But is this a logical assertion? Isn’t this like condemning a robbed man because his possession of money precipitated the evil act of robbery? Isn’t this like condemning Socrates because his unswerving commitment to truth and his philosophical inquiries precipitated the act by the misguided populace in which they made him drink hemlock? Isn’t this like condemning Jesus because his unique God consciousness and never ceasing devotion to God’s will precipitated the evil act of crucifixion? We must come to see that, as the federal courts have consistently affirmed, it is wrong to urge an individual to cease his efforts to gain his basic constitutional rights because the quest may precipitate violence.”
Martin Luther King Jr., Letter from a Birmingham jail.
@Bill Jempty: The only people I saw talking about trans rights obsessively was the right wing politicians and media.
https://democrats.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/08/FINAL-MASTER-PLATFORM.pdf
Go ahead and search the official policy for trans..
Well you’d be wrong. A mere 3 years ago the majority of people thought that transgender people should be protected etc.
https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2022/06/28/americans-complex-views-on-gender-identity-and-transgender-issues/
More recent polls though have shown that the right wing media and personalities have managed to move the needle away from tolerance though. Probably related to why you believe that the democratic party was obsessed with trans rights exclusive to everything else.
I nailed the election last year and obviously I don’t agree with you soo we’re canceled out then 😛
@Kathy:
I just listened to King reading the letter over the weekend in preparation for an article I hope to write soon on protest movements. I think it’s one everyone should read, both from a rhetoric perspective (is incredibly well structured) and to understand one mode of protesting.
@Michael Reynolds:
A very interesting piece, thank you.
For me, when it comes to ‘Trans Issues’ I feel like this is such a tough time. America often takes 10 steps forward and 9 steps backward. Well, we’re somewhere in the 9 steps backward now.
@Beth:
I think my dad is actually the mirror of your mom: he dislikes trans people in general, but thinks being willing to overlook it in his child qualifies as being supportive
“Image jpeg“
@Jim X 32:
I consistently ask this of Reynolds and he never answers, I can’t remember if I ask you, but just in case, what rights are you willing to give up?
The sports issue and the fact that so many cis people buy into it is fucking ridiculous. We didn’t do that. Lia Thomas didn’t do that. AB Hernandez didn’t do that. I’m willing to guess all but the most insane trans people were more or less fine with the testing regimen that was in place in all these sports. Medically transition, wait a bit, and then go compete. It doesn’t matter that it turns out that science is on our side. Cis people all seem too think that men are these superhuman beings and women are inherently frail. We didn’t start the issue with sports. We didn’t start the issue with bathrooms. Do you even know where we were fighting? You don’t because you accept the right wing lies.
And again, this is all fucking pointless. I’ve said all this shit nicely. I’ve said this shit sarcastically. It fundamentally doesn’t matter because no matter what we do, we’re told we’re wrong and we’re assholes for wanting better.
Fucking Magneto was fucking right.
@Matt Bernius:
Thank you.
@CSK:
So, Elon lost about 1/3 of his “executive function” since hooking up with Trump. He had already lost a significant amount of “executive function” around the time he was palling around with Joe Rogan. That stuff must be contagious. Is there a vaccine available?
@Matt:
Some men love to protect their anxieties, insecurities, and obsessions onto Democrats.
Based on the durm and strang, you’d think trans people were the ones pushing America into another MidEast war, bankrupting business and household budgets with tariff inflation, pardoning Jan 6 terrorists, deploying the military to attack US citizens on our streets, blocking affordable housing and healthcare, and plotting to strip 14 million Americans of healthcare while saddling us with $4 trillion yearly deficits so billionaire oligarchs can get another tax cut.
Democrats’ priorities reflect the reality that trans people are not behind these dangers and disgraces.
But one will never go broke underestimating modern America’s ability to be manipulated into ignoring real threats while flogging fake ones. It’s how a majority of white voters (joined in 2024, by a majority of Latino male voters) have devolved the US, once a beacon of aspiration and self-correction, into the most embarrassing, stagnated, and flailing majority white country in the West.
@Michael Reynolds: We saw an across-the-board propaganda campaign against trans people, which I’d fully equate to Der Sturmer (a Nazi propaganda newspaper).
Note that ‘even the liberal’ NYT ran full Nazi about this, teaming up with Christopher Rufo.
Judge rules that anti-woke is just racism (Public Notice)
Those Reagan judges strike again, with their daggum lefty Marxism.
“Julie Roginsky”
Part bolded above as Mike Huckabee is one of the people obsessed with the End Times as described in Revelation of John. Nice, our ambassador to Israel is obsessed with an Armageddon that gets most Jews in Israel killed.
@DK: “Chobani’s CEO tacitly admits that America’s food supply depends on a labor pool paid substandard wages”…
Yeah, I can see why that headline won’t resonate. 🙁
@DK: This is why the Federalist Society was created.
Atrios posted a comment today that seems very on point here.
On the subject of “what the Democrats need to doooooo”, I found this apt. In the ’26 midterms, and hopefully the ’28 election Dems may find themselves propelled by c(C)conservative incompetence back into office. Let’s not be like Labour and Starmer, suddenly back in power with no clue what to do with it.
Republicans have a clear image. To themselves they are the Real Americans. Something like 27% of Americans approve of the Democratic Party. Hell, I’ve never voted for a Republican in my long life and I don’t approve of current Democrats. Our image is weak, wishy-washy, milquetoast, losers.
However, it isn’t easy. The real problem is that we won. There’s a conventional wisdom that we cycle politically: GOPs win, screw things up, Dems win, fix things, people feel safe voting for GOPs again. On a longer timeframe, we instituted Bismarckian social welfare. We have old age insurance, unemployment insurance, and health insurance. And we got civil rights legislation. Being “exceptional”, we’ve made it piecemeal and clumsy, but it is in place. Now what do we do? What do we promise? Voters take what they have for granted. They feel safe voting for Republicans again.
The creatives are mostly on our side, except for large numbers of hired guns. We have some really good younger pols in the pipeline. Hopefully they can come up with something better than I have. Some of the No Kings poster boards might be a good start. Reynolds, you got a good bumper sticker for the 21st century Democratic Party?
Medicare and Social Security go-broke dates pushed up due to rising health care costs, new SSA law
@gVOR10:
To clean up the Republican messes American voters voted for. Again.
Rinse, wash, repeat.
@charontwo:
This is unlikely to be last crisis this country faces during the chaos monkey’s term in office, while
– FEMA has been trashed
– NOAA funding seriously slashed
– Anti-vax kook is running NIH
That’s just of the top of my head. Good lick with your Chaos Monkey Administration, America, you will need it.
@just nutha: “Chobani’s CEO: If you liked COVID food shortages, and thought egg prices were too low in 2024-2025, have I got good news for you!” would certainly be more pithy
Here’s the thing: if you want to be the party/ movement that says it stands for the rights of everyone, but especially for the rights of the disenfranchised and oppressed, then you have to stand for the rights of the disenfranchised and oppressed. Every. Time. Every. Day.
If that means you’re going to lose elections, you’re going to lose them anyway, even if you betray those you said you believe in defending.
End Times
@Scott: Sounds like Congress should raise the cap on SS tax again in response to wages that have risen, especially at the top tier, since the last cap adjustment.
Or is that too easy?
I keep reading “Hump Day Forum” as “Trump Day Forum.”
@Scott: Republicans want two things very badly. One, they want to destroy or drastically reduce SS, Medicare, and Medicaid. Two, the want to not be seen as wanting to destroy or drastically reduce SS, Medicare, and Medicaid.
When they say they will protect SS etc. they mean that they will make cuts necessary to continue them after the funding crisis they’ve engineered.
@gVOR10: Some Republicans want to reduce entitlements. I wish more did. But a lot of them, Trump included, want to sustain it.
@Michael Reynolds:
https://bsky.app/profile/asherelbein.bsky.social/post/3lrvdhfjztk2q
“The repression of trans people is not, by and large, a grassroots outpouring of hatred from the American people. It’s something that’s been carefully planted and tended over years by a handful of media people and their pet reporters.”
@Michael Reynolds: Also, the recent setbacks in rights for Blacks and brown folks is because those n-clang just got too uppity.
When the Supreme Court rolls back Obergefell, it will be because those Pride parades were a bit too risqué with assless chaps.
I mostly respect McBride, but she’s very, very wrong here.
We’re Democrats. We’re supposed to stand for equality. We let attacks on trans folks go mostly unanswered in 2024, because we were afraid that the bigots wouldn’t vote for us, and so a whole lot of normies just believed those attacks.
The normies didn’t just start to believe that trans people are awful groomers and sexual predators, but they believed that Democrats support that, because it all went unchallenged.
And so we lost. And trans people lost. And the rest of LGBTQ people lost. And Black folks lost. And brown folks lost. And people who believe in medicine lost.
Some of these losses were already baked in by the end of Trump’s first term because of the new makeup of the Supreme Court, but the majority of them weren’t.
Does this mean that Democrats need to fight for trans people in sports, mandatory acceptance of neopronouns and for assless chaps to be declared business casual or for any specific policy? No, but they have to fight for something and not let attacks go unanswered.
Trans people are people, they have a right to exist without being harassed. Families have a right to decide what medical care is appropriate for their kids. These are simple, straightforward things that our elected leaders are keeping their heads down on, hoping the courts will rule their way and they won’t have to risk pissing off a few less educated voters. Fucking educate the voters, or at least try, because otherwise you lose.
McBride is wrong. I’m not sure whether she is using “we” to mean Democrats or trans people, or the queer community as a whole. If she means Democrats, then she’s wrong when she says that Democrats have been pushing for policies ahead of where the public is — the Democrats aren’t pushing for shit. If she means trans folks or the queer community as a whole, she’s wrong when she says that they shouldn’t be pushing for that — that’s how change happens.
She seems to think that her being trans and in the House of Representatives is a big deal and that she’s showing people that trans folks are normal, decent folks who are just like everyone else. She’s right about that, but that’s just a tiny thing compared to everything that needs to happen.
——
Pedants will say that all chaps are assless, and they are right, but they’re also right about ATM machine and that’s not going anywhere either. Language evolves in sometimes redundant ways to emphasize the most important aspect of a thing, and I’m willing to be pedantic about that.
——
In answer to Beth’s question of what rights I’m willing to sacrifice, I’d ask what I’m sacrificing them for. Sports, definitely. For whatever reason. If they want to say that queer folk in general can’t play sports because we’re too gifted and too beautiful, sure.
To actually take steps to address climate change and mitigate the consequences? Pretty much everything, but that’s not an offer on the table.
It’s a sliding scale, but most tradeoffs aren’t even on the table. It’s more a matter of priority. Trans people being able to use the bathroom and families being able to get their trans kids medical care are more important battles to have than defending gay marriage.
Criminalizing the abuse of trans and queer kids by their religious parents would be awesome, but it ain’t gonna happen without a lot of other steps first. Steps that taken on their own are less important.
——
Jesus Fucking Christ am I a windbag. Keystroke bag? Keystroke cavalcade?
@charontwo: This was the full fellatio–I mean, the full text message, which, true to his narcissistic personality disorder, the taco guy shared with the world:
Ambassador Suckabee gives great head.
@Fortune: “Some Republicans want to reduce entitlements. I wish more did. But a lot of them, Trump included, want to sustain it.”
Well, no. Not in the slightest.
@charontwo: Sure, but the United States has a lot fewer resources available to assist Americans abroad than nations like Slovakia and Poland. You simply can’t expect our nation to be able to rebuild from the disaster that the Biden Crime Family inflicted and evacuate citizens from a potential war zone to which we may be sending troops. Only rich nations can do that.
@Gustopher:
I’ve got bad news for you…
@DK:
I read this and immediately suffered a violent attack of vicarious embarrassment.
@Gustopher:
I’d agree with this. The Biden turned Harris campaign and the Dem Party writ large spent 2024 assiduously refusing to address trans issues, as strategy. For this, they are rewarded with (apparently hallucinating) “liberals” insisting that Democrats focus on trans rights. This literally makes no sense.
So, if even your own voters are so gullible and addled they’re going to insist you’re talking about trans issues even when you’re explicitly not (God help the USA), might as well talk about them — so as to define yourself rather than let the oppo do it.
I personally think Dems should take the (Trump 2016 approved) liberaltarian position for now: no, government should not play potty police; yes, parents should be the ultimate authority on care for trans minors, not politicians; no, we won’t sign onto law targeting trans in sports — leave those decisions to governing bodies, coaches and parents case-by-case. (And no, Lia Thomas should not have been able to go from a competitive male swimmer to competing on the women’s team just two years into her transition; but it was the job of the NCAA and UPenn to implement policies preventing that, not govt.)
But whether Dems take that approach, or go 100% maximalist for trans rights the way that hallucinators claim and that privileged leftists who don’t care about winning desire, or go full evil and throw trans folk under the bus, Dems might as well speak up, since Americans will fill the vacuum with our own dumbassery.
McBride is as good a spokesperson as any. Agree with her totally or not, she has some authority and is positioning herself as an inoffensive consensus-builder. This may frustrate activists, but that role is essential to movement politics.
@CSK: “Look at J. D. Vance. Not too long ago he was calling Trump Hitler. Now Vance is Trump’s vice-president.”
Sure, he said Trump was Hitler. He didn’t say that was a bad thing.
@Matt Bernius: I think this is flawed thinking wrt to being a member of a functioning coalition. If a faction that has aims that are self defeating, other coalition members get a say in how the groups shared resources are deployed.
As an analogy, the US is not a great NATO partner at the moment. That doesn’t mean that the Germans have to go along to get along with Americas NATO activities because, they are German.
As a closer analogy, I would expect any member of the Dem coalition to say that marketing Reparations is counterproductive to getting votes in the volume of places required to have a governing majority—because it is. Doesn’t mean at the end of the election cycle we don’t pursue reparation aims.
Again, the inability for Dem coalition members to draw a distinction between a campaign and policy is self-defeating. They are not the same—the fact that they converged temporarily is an anomaly in American political history.
@wr:
Trump taking it as a compliment makes it all make sense.
@Fortune: “This is why the Federalist Society was created.”
You mean because some Republican judges weren’t sufficiently racist?
@wr:
I know you’re joking, but back then, Vance also called Trump an idiot and an asshole.
Lots of dark things being talked about here. How about some levity suited for the forum?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LtjzQaFZ3k
@Fortune: ” Some Republicans want to reduce entitlements. I wish more did.”
Cool.
How many rural hospitals do you want to see close down?
How many children do you want to see go hungry?
How many old people do you want to see having to choose between food and energy?
How many Americans do you want to die of preventable causes because they can no longer afford health insurance?
Please be specific.
@Matt: RW media and personalities have the bullhorns. What they convinced people of—was Trans rights are all that Dems talk about.
There is something about the issue that generates clicks and views which is ALL RW media needs. They don’t need top Dems to say much of anything about Trans people. They need a click generating subject, and social media is full of people posting content of every subject. It’s not hard to amplify content and make a group of people appear to be anything you want because of the massive amount of content available. So they’ll find video of trans activists defending their position and stitch that together with the sometimes a top Democrat said at a book show in Timbuktu about supporting Trans rights. In the eyes of the viewer, an association has been established—regardless of reality.
Democrats are still whining about double standards in the legacy media when the RW is running roughshod over social and streaming site when there is no opposition. It’s MAGA all the time—and these people, made utterly blind by the algorithm, go out and vote. They aren’t away of 3/4 of what’s actually is going on in reality. Perhaps when the old farts are out of power in the DNC. They will challenge the RW on its home turf. Until then, perception is reality
@Mister Bluster:
Oh, you go right ahead and do that. It’s not legal to fire the Fed Chair without cause, but the courts won’t stop you in any meaningful timeframe. At least you’ll find out what the financial markets think of your “leadership”.
@Barry: Obviously Cookie didn’t read where I said, “Two, the want to not be seen as wanting to destroy or drastically reduce SS, Medicare, and Medicaid.
@Beth: Ooohh the question game, ok I will answer yours if you answer mines.
Which of my rights/lifestyle will you undermine in pursuit of your own? That’s probably a fairer question to ascertain how much our circles of interest overlap. Because, let’s be clear—the interests of our respective communities are not the same.
I don’t know or care who made bathrooms and sports an issue. What’s clear is they became one with the non-political rubes. The good news about rubes is they move on to something else if there is no there there. But in the age of social media, there is always “there” to find and amplify. Maybe the serious activists tried to steer in another direction—but the web is full of content to amplify ince you find something that get clicks and views.
That fact that Trans people are losing ground is less about other people than it is the playbook they are using to affect public perception. Which, is an issue across the entire Dem coalition
After Trump’s birthday parade a lot of people had fun contrasting what they alleged Trump wanted, thousands of troops shoulder to shoulder, curb to curb, in perfect goosestep and nose to tail weapons; with what he got. It seems they were right about what Trump wanted. TNR via LGM ,
@wr: Well, that’s how I read it, too.
@gVOR10: I saw you said it. You’re right, some Republicans want to cut entitlements without getting blamed. Still, some don’t want to cut entitlements.
@charontwo: “Actually Harris avoided talking about Trans issues, but the Trump campaign advertising kept incessantly accusing her of talking about it, people believed the Trump ads.”
Trump was indeed eager to talk about it, even if he had to fabricate a trans person story out of thin air. He claimed that women’s boxers Imane Khelif of Algeria and Lin Yu Ting of Taiwan were trans, which they were not. They each won Olympic gold medals in Paris, and it was three months before the November election, so he must’ve seen them as a convenient targets for his campaign.
@DK:
Tucker struggles mightily to not fade away…
@Eusebio:
“At least you’ll find out what the financial markets think of your “leadership”.”
Yes, SCOTUS defined the Fed something sui generis to keep Trump’s hands off of it. They can lie all they want, it was really protecting Trump’s easiest way to collapse the world’s economy.
@Fortune: “I saw you said it. You’re right, some Republicans want to cut entitlements without getting blamed. Still, some don’t want to cut entitlements.”
So far, those are not visible in Congress.
@DK: There are clips going around with Tucker grilling Cruz on basic facts about Iran, and responding to Cruz’s pushback with “how can you want to bomb people if you don’t know how many there are? Or who they are? Or anything about them?”
I had a boss who grew up with Tucker and knew Tucker’s family, and said that Tucker was the least racist member of that family. (Boss in question was about 5 levels above me, and came from an incredibly wealthy family — his company was basically a hobby)
Horrifying to think about the rest of the family, and Tucker is undeniably evil, but I think he might have a mind of his own and that getting out of the Fox marinade will allow him to use that mind to forge an entirely new racist, sexist, bigoted and horrible voice.
@Jim X 32:
Insufficient explanation. More and more Americans embracing open white supremacy since Trump’s emergence is not less about America’s moral backsliding and radicalization in the Trump era than about black Americans’ “playbook.”
People actually are responsible for their own choices and ethics. 1930s Germans didn’t embrace Nazism because of things Jews, gypsies, gays, and other targeted groups were and were not doing. Aryanism was not a result of Jesse Owens hurting Hitler’s feelings at the Berlin Olympics.
What supposedly changed so dramatically in the trans “playbook” since Trump ran around in 2016 insisting trans people caused few problems in society and could use any bathroom they want, to widespread acclaim from everyone including his party?
@Fortune:
Careful there, you might actually be holding an opinion. Luckily, no one can be sure of why you wish more Republicans wanted to reduce entitlements — it might be because you agree with that position, or it might just be an aesthetic thing.
But, given that the entire Republican House voted for the Only Billionaires Benefit Bill, I’m really at a loss as to how more of them could want to cut entitlements. Perhaps you think that some of them felt pressured to vote for it, and you just don’t want them to feel so conflicted.
@DK:
Are you using an iPhone? I’ve found that mine has been correcting typos to complete gibberish lately, where it used to just change one word to one word of nonsense.
I’m guessing you meant “Germans didn’t embrace Nazism because of something the Jews were or were not doing.”
I think I might prefer just plain typos rather than the autocorrection these days. Even if I somehow thumb out “T5e” instead of “the” from time to time (I have no idea how I do that. It can’t be autocorrecting to that, can it?)
ETA: you edited it as I was thumbing this out! I was right in my guess as to meaning!
@Gustopher:
Is Tucker’s mom a Thurmond?
Trump has replaced the White House portrait of Hillary Clinton with an unframed meme of his face superimposed on an American flag. He’s now sandwiched between Laura Bush and Barbara Bush.
What message is he sending? That he’s a First Lady?
@gVOR10:
That’s why I speculated the sloppiness was perhaps deliberate, from the top brass, and targeting Hegseth primarily. They are proud professionals who must chaff at having a clown being appointed to that position. If Hegseth neglected to send a memo to make it sharp….
Just the speculation of an ex-E4 mafioso..
@DK:
If anything has changed, it’s the Republican playbook. The Democrats have never figured out how to hold anyone’s attention on the outrageous shit the Republicans do, and the Republicans really seem to be refining their abilities to project outrage.
We had the head of Homeland Security talking about liberating an American city from its socialist mayor and governor, and we don’t have every elected Democrat calling for her resignation. Sure, it was overshadowed a bit by her goons pinning a Senator to the ground, but even that got only a modest reaction.
I have no doubt that Noem wouldn’t resign, but we need our elected officials to do more performative shit, so they don’t get drowned out by Republican performative shit.
@Jim X 32: Which of my rights/lifestyle will you undermine in pursuit of your own?
As a cis, white male, I’ll play. Let’s take women’s sports off the table, because a 100% ban on transgender women participating in women’s sports would never be enough.
I am struggling to come up with anything that the transgender community “wants” that that would undermine my rights/lifestyle. I assume they want basic human rights, protection against discrimination.
As for compromise, what would be the compromise? At this point the compromise for Republicans would seem to be that we will allow you to live and be seen in public. We will make sure that any official IDs deadnames you and does not identify you by preferred gender. There will be government discrimination against you, and you will have no protection against housing and job discrimination.
I just don’t understand how a group wanting what most people consider basic human rights undermines your rights.
Parker Molloy comments on trans rights and McBride:
“Parker Molloy”
@Lucysfootball: It doesn’t. He’s just dealing in “turning the question around” misdirection/goalpost shifting. In that way, he’s just like Cookie, which makes sense considering that one of his primary messages is that Democrats are losing the message war because they’re not disingenuous enough.*
*My interpretation of his “theory.”
ETA: @charontwo: With all due respect to Parker Molloy (and I do agree with the assessment), McBride is a Congresscrittter. Getting reelected is Job Only, not merely Job One. I no longer expect politicians to take principled stands. The “Profiles in Courage” era is long behind us–and wasn’t everything we imagine it to have been then, either.
@Jim X 32:
Fine. You win. I give up.
@Just nutha ignint cracker:
Good point.
But – isn’t it relevant whether it’s a safe seat or swingy? (I don’t know much about McBride’s seat, haven’t checked).
@charontwo: I’d like to believe that the safety of the seat is a factor but am inclined to believe that the racism lite, fiscal responsibility lite, bigotry lite, nation building lite, features of what I see in Democratic policy governing by getting along probably makes the point moot. She’s going to go that way irrespective of seat safety.
@Beth:
Trans people didn’t have the rights to begin with. They were trying to achieve those rights. You want to ask what rights I’d delay in order to have greater rights later? Because that’s the question. You didn’t have it, that’s the fucking problem, you assumed you had rights you had not yet secured. You didn’t do the work.
We all compromise for the good of the larger society, and there is a very, very long history of groups forced to accept delays. See: Blacks, Asians, Indians, Jews, the Irish, Hispanics, Gays, the handicapped.
And don’t you fucking insinuate that I don’t love my daughter. I was there when she was born 2 months premature. That was me walking through the long gloomy tunnel with her to NICU. When she was hooked up to a cardiac monitor that went off like a siren 10 times a day and no one slept for months, I was the guy in dirty clothes because I didn’t have the time to do laundry, with her glued to my shoulder. I have the pictures. I moved across country looking for the best schools for her. I have backed her in every move she’s made in life. I support her financially and emotionally and we have the kind of relationship that has her seeking out time with us. I am frankly touched by her love for us, for me, and not at all sure I deserve it. When we kick off she’s a millionaire but she’s the one nagging me to get a colonoscopy, researching best doctors, etc… Just a few weeks ago we flew her to London mostly so we could hang out and watch Taskmaster. There are shows we can only watch with her. Things we can only do with her. Meals we can only eat with her. I am here on this earth to protect her as well as I can for as long as I can.
So, what’s your slander to discredit McBride? Is she a self-hating trans person? Because there’s very little air between her position and mine. Beth, everyone in the US of A who knows the first goddamn thing about politics knows I/we are right. You’re the one who is out of touch. You’re the one whose belligerence and intolerance have contributed to the shattering setback of trans rights. You come across as a narcissist far more concerned with your own mental state than with some larger community. This is not your drama, Beth, it’s bigger than you. Whether you like it or not you’re in a fight and you won’t win with denial and rage. Be smart. Play to win.
@wr:
How do you intend to prevent the nation from going bankrupt. Please be specific.
@Connor: Raise taxes, treat capital gains and labor the same, and implement any of the successful socialized healthcare options that we have seen working in Europe?
Just spitballing here.
If you really want a balanced budget, we can set in automatic tax increases when there is a deficit.
@Gustopher:
Maybe. I do kinda like that Democrats are generally more sober and responsible than that, though. I kinda prefer the approach of letting Americans get what they voted for until Americans decide having Medicaid is more important than immigration theater. I dunno. Don’t feel like the country will improve much from having two immature, unserious reality TV show parties.
@DK: I do not agree that people can make their own choices about what’s true and false in today’s environment. SOME people can depending on the aggregate of their education and experiences.
Most people are easily influenced if you understand their upbringings, fears, successes and failures—and of course—do not betray that you are influencing them. Given the tools of modern media, the speed of the internet, and the isolation of most people—caused by the failure of brick and mortar institutions—a relatively small group of powerful people can slime a populace with propaganda and suggestion—to which the common man and woman has almost no defense mechanism.
In a sense, these people are psychologically vulnerable despite their economic situation. Ultimately, an unfettered information environment, dominated by the rich and powerful will be (and is) the undoing of society until some controls are put in. If you create a situation when lies are told all day, every day unchallenged, eventually, the common man will believe the lies. He doesn’t have a constitutional that would dictate otherwise.
Remember, the common man was all for fighting Iraq and Afghanistan until he was told to be against it. The common man hates corrupt politicians, until he’s told to ignore it. It is easy for people of education and experience to believe everyone has the same toolbox of logical criticism—but it is not so. Half of people are going to go along with whatever is popular be it racism, homophobia, fascism, etc. It’s up to people that know better to ensure self defeating notions do not become popular. That is only possible today with some changes in how internet companies are allowed to operate.
Probably against my better judgment, I’ll weigh in here a bit:
@Michael Reynolds:
I directionally agree with Michael (and McBride) here, but I’d put it a bit differently.
Achieving anything difficult requires clear goals, a strategy to accomplish those goals, and the various means and resources necessary to implement the strategy. There is also the question of time, because nothing can be accomplished immediately in any domain, especially one that requires changing public opinion. And the details also matter, because prioritization is essential, and no movement has unlimited people, resources, etc.
Now, there are inevitably going to be disagreements on all of these things among those who are directionally aligned on an issue. What is the desired end state? What are the most important goals that need to be prioritized first? What is the best way to achieve those goals? Since no movement ever gets 100% of a loaf at any inflection point (because public opinion is slow to change), what percentage is acceptable progress, and which things are worth fighting for on that hill now, vs which things are best saved for a future fight?
Looking at and analyzing the trans rights movement through this lens, what I see (as a person supportive of trans rights in principle but an outsider to the movement) is a lot of infighting and in-group policing; a lack of any clear strategy; a lack of clear goals; massive disputes over tactics and priorities; seeming intentional actions to reduce the size of the tent instead of expand it, to name the most significant factors I see. The constantly changing academic-sounding language and definitions certainly don’t help. What is, exactly, a woman, a man, a male or female, for example? How many biological sexes and genders are there? There are lots of opinions and arguments on all of this, and lots of infighting, which the bulk of the public don’t understand and can’t follow – and it’s the public, BTW, that any movement needs to win over.
There are numerous models for successful American social and political movements, and they all share common characteristics. They succeeded through discipline, strategic patience, and tactical adaptability. Success came not just from being morally right, but also from the ability to persuade the public that the position is morally right. And that’s achieved through organizing, influencing, and enduring – because social change is an inherently iterative process. And it certainly helped that historic movements often had charismatic and strategically-minded leaders.
The trans rights movement lacks many of these key characteristics and actively works against some of them, especially the strong urge among many activists to purge any heretics and take absolutist positions. I don’t understand how anyone can believe the trans movement can succeed at anything if people like McBride, Michael are labeled as heretics who are falsely and maliciously characterized as wanting trans people to die or not loving their own children. They are more supportive of trans people and trans rights than 99% of the public and if they are insufficiently pure, then the movement is fucked.
@Lucysfootball: You misunderstood the question. The Democrats have the closest vision to the Country I would like to live in. I dare say that is true to a greater or lesser degree for every faction that votes for Ds.
The only catalyst for them enacting that vision—is votes.
The Dem coalition is complex with lots of interests—some in the popular psyche, some not. Some popular, some not. But none of it matters if Democrats do not get votes. So, if a group decides their issue must be campaigned upon, even if it costs Dems votes, that undermines the other factions realizing some of their goals.
If we aren’t talking about the right to live, work, move, and associate—in my book there is tradespace for negotiation. If DEI impacts the ability for Dems to get votes (which it now does because of the RW media ecosystem) then let’s park it for a cycle and rebrand it. Every one of the Dems factions should have that attitude. But they can’t because they are stuck in the 60s and are brainwashed that justice delayed is justice denied. No, it’s just delayed. It’s an eloquent saying but forces people not nuanced enough to understand it into playing checkers in a game of chess.
The most recent price change that hits my budget is a pleasant surprise. The cost of the over the counter Kroger brand Omeprazole tablets that I have been taking one a day for years to manage acid reflux has dropped significantly. I have seen the cost of 42 tablets increase from $11.99 to $14.99 over the last few years so I had to do a double take when I noticed that the same item today sells for $9.99. A 33.3% decrease. Not advertised as a sale price but the “Everyday Low Price”.
Of course Kroger tags items “Everyday Low Price” right after a price increase all the time. Like when the 60z. container of Kroger brand yogurt shot up from 60¢ to 70¢ to 80¢ (Everyday Low Price) in a matter of weeks last winter.
No telling when the price might increase again so I believe I’ll check the expiration date of the packages on the shelf (my stash at home is good till July 2026) and buy a few extra next time I’m at the store.
@Jim X 32:
White Americans are not uniquely more “common man” than the rest of us. We all have access to the same choices. A majority of blacks, gays, Latino women etc. declined to vote for a rapist. Harris actually won the very poorest households, per exit polls. Are they not common men?
I appreciate that bleeding heart liberals always want to make excuses for bad behavior — why I used to be Republican. But American adult voters are not powerless, blameless, noble infants with no agency. They’ve observed Trump for a decade just like I did. They just made an unethical, amoral, and rather dumb choice. Sometimes you gamble and lose.
@DK:
The entire purpose of a political party (especially in a de facto two-party system) is to convince a majority of the voting public to vote for your desired side. Blaming the public after losing for failing to vote for you is a cop out and, uncorrected, only sets the stage for further failure down the line. Ultimately, democracy is about persuasion, and resorting to blaming voters for not seeing the supposed wisdom of one’s political program is not exactly a winning message or a corrective for doing better in the next election.
@Andy: Our Constitution opens with We the People, not We the Political Parties. Our democracy is ultimately about self-governance — literally, by definition.
A self-governed people have a civic duty to make informed, humane, ethical choices. When we fail spectacularly in that duty, we should tell each other so. By contrast, the implication that adult citizens in a democracy are passive nonactors without responsibility is the cop out here — intended to make excuses for inexcusable failures of morals and ethics that — if ignored, dismissed, and downplayed by blame shifting — presage ongoing and future American decline.
America is falling further and further behind other advanced majority white countries in all sorts of metrics — from healthcare to housing to quality of life to measured happiness. Infantilizing grown American adults as innocent, blameless, and lacking in agency is not a corrective to that decline. In fact, this forced immaturity encapsulates everything that’s wrong with modern America.
So, yes, the self-governed American people are to blame for the predictabile outcomes of their choice to vote in an incompetent, unqualified, corrupt criminal — a choice none of our peer nations would have made because it is an obviously stupid and unwise choice. But I understand why members of the demographic that inexplicably gave a supermajority of its votes to an unhinged thug want to place all the blame on political parties and none on themselves. As a therapist, I see all the time how hard it is for people to hold themselves accountable.
Americans need to stop concern trolling about the success of Democrats, and start worrying about success of the USA, currently a global laughingstock, flailing, and dangerously unstable due in large part due to their stubborn refusal to reflect on and reconsider their irresponsible politics. Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden, and Kamala Harris are going to be just fine. The people that voted to strip themselves of Medicaid, not so much.
@Mister Bluster: I use famotedine for acid reflux and buy tablets 100 or so at a time. If Omeprazole has larger bottles, you might check the price. With famotedine, 100 tablets are only a dollar or so more than 42.
@Connor: “How do you intend to prevent the nation from going bankrupt. Please be specific.”
Raising taxes on rich people and reversing the forty year long transfer of American assets from the middle class and poor to the super rich.
Wow, that was hard. Next question?
Duplicate post deleted.
@just nutha:..drugs…
Thank you for the reply.