Monday’s Forum

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FILED UNDER: Open Forum
Steven L. Taylor
About Steven L. Taylor
Steven L. Taylor is a Professor Emeritus of Political Science and former College of Arts and Sciences Dean. His main areas of expertise include parties, elections, and the institutional design of democracies. His most recent book is the co-authored A Different Democracy: American Government in a 31-Country Perspective. He earned his Ph.D. from the University of Texas and his BA from the University of California, Irvine. He has been blogging since 2003 (originally at the now defunct Poliblog). Follow Steven on Twitter and/or BlueSky.

Comments

  1. Scott says:

    The shitshow that is now Trump’s Ukrainian policy?

    I can’t summarize better than Heather Cox Richardson:

    “Do I understand correctly that there is now a dispute within the administration about whether this ‘peace plan’ was written by Russians or Americans?” foreign affairs journalist Anne Applebaum asked last night on social media.

    Applebaum was referring to confusion over a 28-point plan for an end to Russia’s war on Ukraine reported by Barak Ravid and Dave Lawler of Axios last week. After the plan was leaked, apparently to Ravid by Kirill Dmitriev, an ally of Russian president Vladimir Putin who is under U.S. sanctions, Vice President J.D. Vance came out strongly in support of it.

    But as scholar of strategic studies Phillips P. OBrien noted in Phillips’s Newsletter, once it became widely known that the plan was written by the Russians, Secretary of State Marco Rubio tried to back away from it, posting on social media on Wednesday that “[e]nding a complex and deadly war such as the one in Ukraine requires an extensive exchange of serious and realistic ideas. And achieving a durable peace will require both sides to agree to difficult but necessary concessions. That is why we are and will continue to develop a list of potential ideas for ending this war based on input from both sides of this conflict.”

    And yet, by Friday, Trump said he expected Ukraine president Volodymyr Zelensky to sign onto the plan by Thanksgiving: next Thursday, November 27. Former senate majority leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) said: “Putin has spent the entire year trying to play President Trump for a fool. Rewarding Russian butchery would be disastrous to America’s interests.”

    Yesterday a group of senators, foreign affairs specialists gathered in Halifax, Nova Scotia, for the Halifax International Security Forum, told reporters they had spoken to Rubio about the plan. Senator Angus King (I-ME) said Rubio had told them that the document “was not the administration’s position” but rather “a wish list of the Russians.” Senator Mike Rounds (R-SC) said: “This administration was not responsible for this release in its current form.” He added: “I think he made it very clear to us that we are the recipients of a proposal that was delivered to one of our representatives,” Rounds said. “It is not our recommendation, it is not our peace plan.”

    But then a spokesperson for the State Department, Tommy Pigott, called the senators’ account of the origins of the plan “blatantly false,” and Rubio abruptly switched course, posting on social media that in fact the U.S. had written the plan.

    Anton La Guardia, diplomatic editor at The Economist, posted: “State Department is backpedalling on Rubio’s backpedal. If for a moment you thought the grown-ups were back in charge, think again. We’re still in the circus. ‘Unbelievable,’ mutters one [of the] disbelieving senators.”

    Later that day, Erin Banco and Gram Slattery of Reuters reported that the proposal had come out of a meeting in Miami between Trump’s special envoy Steve Witkoff, Trump’s son-in-law Jared Kushner, and Dmitriev, who leads one of Russia’s largest sovereign wealth funds. They reported that senior officials in the State Department and on the National Security Council were not briefed about the plan.

    This morning, Bill Kristol of The Bulwark reported rumors that Vice President J.D. Vance was “key to US embrace of Russia plan on Ukraine, Rubio (and even Trump) out of the loop.” He posted that relations between Vance and Rubio are “awful” and that Rubio did, in fact, tell the senators what they said he did.

    Yaroslav Trofimov, chief foreign affairs correspondent of the Wall Street Journal, posted: “Foreign nations now have to deal with rival factions of the U.S. government who keep major policy initiatives secret from each other and some of which work with foreign powers as the succession battle for 2028 begins, is how one diplomat put it.”

    14
  2. Michael Reynolds says:

    @Scott:
    The Cuban Missile Crisis comes to mind. Had these fuckwits managed that there’d be big, radioactive, smoking holes where American and Russian cities now stand.

    16
  3. Kathy says:

    @Scott:

    It’s like this: In normal times, had anyone claimed the plan to subjugate Ukraine to Russia was drawn up by the US, they’d have been laughed out of the planet.

    5
  4. gVOR10 says:

    @Michael Reynolds:

    these fuckwits

    At Balloon Juice Adam Silverman, in his nightly wrap up of Ukraine and Georgia, talks about this peace plan clown act. He quotes, of all people, Bill Kristol.

    FWIW, RUMINT, but pretty reliable:
    1. Vance key to US embrace of Russia plan on Ukraine, Rubio (and even Trump) out of the loop.
    2. Vance-Rubio relations “awful.”
    3. Rubio told the senators exactly what they said he told them.
    4. Hegseth paranoid he’ll be shoved out, Driscoll will replace him.

    Driscoll is described as Vance’s guy at DOJ. People are dying, war and peace are at stake, and the highest levels of our government are playing junior high kool kids games, with no president able to provide adult supervision.

    15
  5. Rob1 says:

    @Scott:

    The Bulwark reported rumors that Vice President J.D. Vance was “key to US embrace of Russia plan on Ukraine, Rubio (and even Trump) out of the loop.”

    American Pie heartlander J.D. Vance, and by extension, Peter Thiel, are Russian assets??? No way !!!

    1
  6. Rob1 says:

    A tale of two Petes —-

    Bad Pete obfuscates:

    Did you give the order!?!???
    She wants the truth!
    Hegseth can’t handle the truth!

    Good Pete articulates:

    “We have a President who really is attempting to become an autocrat, and in some ways has succeeded. He has succeeded in changing the conduct of private actors — universities, companies, broadcasters. That is a big part of what autocracy looks like, or bigger. That is self editing that he is causing to happen rather than direct control. So yes, in some ways, he has succeeded. Now, if that holds or that changes depends on the rest of us. Especially because he is doing it in service of a very unpopular agenda: tax cuts for the rich, cuts to Medicaid and Social Security, empowerment of corporations of already that are already too powerful.

    For Pete’s sake, America, and your own, go with the good Petes out there.

    7
  7. Richard Gardner says:

    @gVOR10:
    Driscoll is described as Vance’s guy at DOJ.
    If it is Daniel Driscoll, he is Secretary of the Army and went to law school with Vance. He is an Army Vet (Officer). He seems competent. https://www.politico.com/news/2025/11/21/dan-driscoll-army-secretary-trump-administration-prominence-00663917?nid=0000018f-3124-de07-a98f-3be4d1400000

  8. Kathy says:

    One theory about AI floating around, is that eventually one of the LLMs, image/video generators, etc. will prove massively useful and profitable, therefore lots of companies are investing every year the cost of the Apollo program* on the technology.

    One would think then the investment would be in research and development, not in deployment of thirsty data centers. Apparently, they all want to be positioned to take immediate and large scale advantage of the magic AI when it finally shows up…

    The sooner the bubble pops, the less dire the consequences all around.

    *Per Wikipedia, the cost adjusted for inflation in 2020 of the Apollo program was about $257 billion (does not include Skylab or Apollo Soyuz).

    3
  9. Rob1 says:

    Trump set to propose framework to fix Obamacare subsidies

    President Donald Trump is expected to announce, as early as Monday, a general framework to address health care costs, calling on Congress to send a bill to his desk that would halt Affordable Care Act premium spikes, according to two White House officials familiar with the plans [..]

    Trump’s proposal, which could change, represents the president’s first substantive policy initiative on health care since the start of the government shutdown in which Democrats demanded that Congress act to extend ACA subsidies set to expire at the end of this year. In exchange for reopening the government,

    Hard to view this 180 degree without crediting elevation of the ACA subsidies issue through the shutdown/standoff, with the Dems being bolstered by 7 million No Kings protesters.

    People Power lives!

    5
  10. Charley in Cleveland says:

    Negotiators to end Russia’s war of aggression: the Russian equivalent of the Treasury Secretary, an American real estate mogul, and the president’s corrupt & conflicted son-in-law. Missing – anyone from Ukraine, anyone from NATO, anyone from Europe, anyone with a deep understanding of Russian and Ukrainian history. Cheerleaders = JD “I wanna be president” Vance, and Marco “quiero ser presidente” Rubio.

    4
  11. Rob1 says:

    Rep. Cory Mills Accused of Stolen Valor for His Bronze

    Blockbuster Exposé Ramps Up Stolen Valor Accusations Against Congressman: ‘He Didn’t Save My Life…I Don’t Recall Him Being There’ [..]

    NOTUS reporters Reese Gorman and John T. Seward tracked down soldiers who served with Mills to ask about those “specifics” — and five of them, including four on the record, challenged not just Mills’ version of events, but whether he was even present at some of the incidents cited in his Form 638.

    Our entire political ‘ecosphere’ is ready-made for résumé padding.

    2
  12. Jen says:

    @Rob1: What? The guy with a restraining order may have lied?

    Blech.

    2
  13. Rob1 says:

    Violence is as American as cherry pie

    — H. Rap Brown, 1960’s civil rights activist. Oct.4, 1943 – Nov.23, 2025, Age 82. Died while serving a life term in prison for killing a police officer in 2000.

    2
  14. Rob1 says:

    @Jen: Only the finest, right?

    2
  15. Bill Jempty says:

    The Trump administration’s peace plan reminds me of North Vietnam’s stance from early 1970 to Fall 1972 to resolve the Vietnam war.

    Total withdrawal of US troops
    The toppling of the regime in Saigon
    and no guarantees so far as exchanging POWs

    2
  16. Kathy says:

    @Michael Reynolds:

    Maybe.

    On the other hand, maybe he goes on TV and declares “I talked to Kruschev, he’s a nice guy, very smart, not a communist lunatic at all, many people say that. And he told me those are not his missiles.”

    He then goes golfing for the next week, to ponder what other parts of the White House he can demolish for a second ballroom. The navy won’t shoot at the Soviet ships without orders. Next thing you know, there are Soviet nukes a short hop from Miami.

    3
  17. al Ameda says:

    @Scott:

    I can’t summarize better than Heather Cox Richardson:

    “Do I understand correctly that there is now a dispute within the administration about whether this ‘peace plan’ was written by Russians or Americans?” foreign affairs journalist Anne Applebaum asked last night on social media.

    Applebaum was referring to confusion over a 28-point plan for an end to Russia’s war on Ukraine reported by Barak Ravid and Dave Lawler of Axios last week. After the plan was leaked, apparently to Ravid by Kirill Dmitriev, an ally of Russian president Vladimir Putin who is under U.S. sanctions, Vice President J.D. Vance came out strongly in support of it.

    and … Per NBCnews: President Donald Trump inserted fresh tensions into the high-stakes Ukraine-Russia peace talks on Sunday, publicly accusing Kyiv’s leaders of showing “zero gratitude” for U.S. support just as U.S. officials in Geneva were working to show a united front.

    The clown car spins out, into the infield, JD struggles to get out of the car, rips off his helmet throws it to the ground and blames Hegseth (or Rubio) for this. I think this show needs new screenwriters. Or maybe this is exactly right?

    Soon to come … as Trump realizes that the rollout of the Sellout is … not … doing … well.
    … ‘I don’t know anything about this agreement, never heard of it.’

    6
  18. Bobert says:

    Breaking:
    Comey & James indictment dismissed, Halligan not authorized to present.

    6
  19. Michael Reynolds says:

    @Bobert:
    But. . . but. . . she’s hot in that creepy, plastic way that flatters Trump’s old man ego.

    3
  20. Richard Gardner says:

    Can’t make this bluster up. I’m guessing someone is setting up Hegseth for a removal.

    OFFICIAL STATEMENT:
    The Department of War has received serious allegations of misconduct against Captain Mark Kelly, USN (Ret.). In accordance with the Uniform Code of Military Justice, 10 U.S.C. § 688, and other applicable regulations, a thorough review of these allegations has been initiated to determine further actions, which may include recall to active duty for court-martial proceedings or administrative measures. This matter will be handled in compliance with military law, ensuring due process and impartiality. Further official comments will be limited, to preserve the integrity of the proceedings.
    The Department of War reminds all individuals that military retirees remain subject to the UCMJ for applicable offenses, and federal laws such as 18 U.S.C. § 2387 prohibit actions intended to interfere with the loyalty, morale, or good order and discipline of the armed forces. Any violations will be addressed through appropriate legal channels.
    All servicemembers are reminded that they have a legal obligation under the UCMJ to obey lawful orders and that orders are presumed to be lawful. A servicemember’s personal philosophy does not justify or excuse the disobedience of an otherwise lawful order.

    1
  21. CSK says:

    The indictments against James Comey and Tish James have been dismissed.

    1
  22. Bill Jempty says:

    @CSK:

    The indictments against James Comey and Tish James have been dismissed.

    They were dismissed without prejudice which means they can be refiled.

  23. Jen says:

    @Richard Gardner: They are attempting to court martial a decorated naval officer, astronaut, and the husband of a former member of congress who survived an assassination attempt, on the basis that he [checks notes] reminded others serving that they are not to obey illegal orders? Do I have that right?

    That seems like it is unlikely to go the way they are thinking it might.

    9
  24. Jen says:

    @Bill Jempty:

    They were dismissed without prejudice which means they can be refiled.

    I believe the statute of limitations has run out in the Comey case, hasn’t it? I vaguely remember they were in a rush to file when they did so earlier.

    ETA: Found the answer at The Empty Wheel. The ruling appears to prevent Bondi from re-indicting Comey, but doesn’t “moot his other legal challenges.”

    https://www.emptywheel.net/2025/11/24/buh-bye-lindsey/

    1
  25. Bill Jempty says:

    What the heck?

    Guests boarding the Norwegian Dawn for its Dec. 7, 2025, cruise will complete their check-in processes at a hotel in Tampa.

    According to a statement issued by Norwegian Cruise Line, passengers must proceed to the Hilton Tampa Downtown instead of the port on that date.

    “Please note that check-in and embarkation arrangements have changed due to updated port availability,” the company said in its letter to booked guests.

    “We appreciate your understanding and cooperation as we make these arrangements to ensure a smooth start to your vacation,” Norwegian added.

    The company said that guests who arrive early are welcome to check in with NCL staff, drop off luggage, and explore Tampa before boarding.

    While check-in is expected to take place between 11:00 a.m. and 5:00 p.m., complimentary transfers to the ship will begin at 6:00 p.m.

    According to the statement, no check-in will take place at the cruise terminal, and all guests are required to proceed to the Hilton before boarding.

    The company noted that several restaurants are located inside and near the Hilton, which will also provide a free downtown trolley with stops at both the hotel and the cruise port.

    Checking in at a hotel has to be a logistical nightmare based on luggage alone. Why would this be happening?

    Cruise critic has the answer

    Tampa only has 3 berths for cruise ships: Terminal 2,3 and 6.

    Tampa port website has a ship schedule it only shows 3 ships on December 7: Celebrity Constellation at Terminal 2, Carnival Miracle at Terminal 3 and Margaritaville At Sea Islander at Terminal 6. For some odd reason, Norwegian Dawn is not listed

    In order for the Norwegian Dawn to dock to disembark previous passengers and embark new passengers, the Dawn needs to wait for the one of the 3 ships to leave.

    Passengers will be disembarking late from the Dawn. That is going to cause problems- missed flights- also. Why was this congestion just figured out now?

    Dear Wife and I sailed Norwegian Joy for our Alaskan cruise. It was a great experience. Over the next 14 months, DW has us embarking on four more cruises already. One going to the eastern Caribbean this next Sunday, an Antarctica cruise in January, a New England and Canada cruise next summer, and an around the world cruise starting in January 2027. All of those will be with Holland America. Two of those cruises will be out of Fort Lauderdale, about 40 miles south of where we live.

    1
  26. Kathy says:

    @Richard Gardner:

    El Taco’s so-called administration produces so much bullshit, they have to spread it around several government departments.

    2
  27. dazedandconfused says:

    @Kathy: To begin with, the Soviets would have felt no need to to put nukes close to a nation run by one of their most useful idiots.

    2
  28. a country lawyer says:

    By statute the statute of limitations in the Comey case is extended for six months. The problem for Trump if he wishes to prosecute is that the court will now appoint an interim U.S. Attorney, who if he /she has any integrity, will elect not to prosecute. Any appointment by Trump will have to pass Senate confirmation.
    An interesting by product of the judge’s opinion is that any official act of the improperly appointed U.S. Attorney is if not void voidable. That includes any other indictment returned during this period but any other official act such as the hiring or firing of AUSAs.

  29. Kathy says:

    @dazedandconfused:

    Maybe they would, because their useful idiot would allow it. the missiles would still be there by the time Americans put a useless genius* in the oval office.

    On other things, of late I’ve been running across some observations and questions I’ve made on various topics, covered in books I’m reading and on videos I watch on Youtube.

    For instance, one thing I’ve long wondered is whether communism required a totalitarian, oppressive, pervasive form of governance, or whether that was a result of the Russian soil, figuratively speaking, where it first took root.

    Volkogonov’s book on Lenin takes this up early on. He doesn’t say it was required, but that it turned up that way because it was how Lenin saw power and governance.

    *Or even a compromise useless idiot like Reagan.

  30. dazedandconfused says:

    FAA issues a security NOTAM* on flights near Venezuela, causing major disruptions in most international carriers in the region.

    *”Notice to airmen”

    This was merely a petty harassment IMO, but I suppose we have to hand it to the Trump administration for originality and efficacy. Doesn’t directly affect any US carrier as there are no US ops in and out of Venezuela, but scares the crap out of people. Looked like the kind of NOTAMS that go out just before things other than aircraft start flying around.

  31. Jen says:

    @a country lawyer:

    By statute the statute of limitations in the Comey case is extended for six months.

    The following is posted at Empty Wheel:

    21 Generally, “[t]he return of an indictment tolls the statute of limitations on the charges contained in the indictment.” United States v. Ojedokun, 16 F.4th 1091, 1109 (4th Cir. 2021). “An invalid indictment,” however, “cannot serve to block the door of limitations as it swings closed.” United States v. Crysopt Corp., 781 F. Supp. 375, 378 (D. Md. 1991) (emphasis in original); see also United States v. Gillespie, 666 F. Supp. 1137, 1141 (N.D. Ill. 1987) (“[A] valid indictment insulates from statute-of-limitations problems any refiling of the same charges during the pendency of that valid indictment (that is, the superseding of a valid indictment). But if the earlier indictment is void, there is no legitimate peg on which to hang such a judicial limitations-tolling result.”

    Does this mean that the indictment is considered valid and therefore the statute of limitations gets extended?

    (I am genuinely trying to understand this, because I remember thinking that the scramble to get in under the wire seemed like ripe conditions for a major screw-up.)

  32. gVOR10 says:

    @al Ameda:

    Per NBCnews: President Donald Trump inserted fresh tensions into the high-stakes Ukraine-Russia peace talks on Sunday, publicly accusing Kyiv’s leaders of showing “zero gratitude” for U.S. support

    Why do I suspect Kyiv has been appropriately grateful for any help from the US, but Trump expects some more, shall we say, personal and tangible expression. Maybe Kyiv should learn from Putin and dangle a possible Trump Tower Odessa in front of him for years.

    4
  33. dazedandconfused says:

    @Kathy:

    I would say communism as Marx envisioned it, with all forms of industry being state run, is precisely those things and makes no apologies for it. The only issue is whether totalitarian, oppressive and pervasive government is run by a committee or by one person. Lenin thought committee, but Stalin had a different opinion.

    1
  34. a country lawyer says:

    @Jen: This is the type of question you often find on a law school exam and the answer hangs on the question of what is a “valid” indictment. The trial judge ignored that issue leaving it to the appellate court. Your guess is as good as mine as to how the appellate court will rule if or when the issue reaches it

    3
  35. Kathy says:

    @dazedandconfused:

    I have never read Marx’s corpus, only read about it second hand, plus some study of portions of it in school. I won’t got reading the Manifesto or Das Kapital, but I’ll look into it to see what he said about such things, if anything (it’s amazing how the practical aspects of implementation are overlooked, glossed over, or plain ignored by lofty philosophers).

    1
  36. Kathy says:

    Hearing anyone in El Taco’s cabinet talk about civility is highly ironic.

    Not to mention some missing questions in his short video:

    Are you setting up unrealistic, padded schedules, because you face little to no consequences for delays and cancellations?

    Are you packing your passengers as tight as canned sardines?

    Are you nickel and diming your passengers for everything from checked bags, to buy on board snacks, to spotty Wi Fi access*, to seats nearer the front of the plane?

    Do you annoy your passengers with endless pitches for your branded credit card on top of all the above?

    Do you overbook flights and offer insufficient compensation to bumped passengers, because you can always call the cops to remove them if they refuse to be “voluntarily” bumped?

    I’m sure I’m missing more than a few. Feel free to pile on.

    *Ok, I can see charging for Wi Fi, and perhaps even at rather high rates. It depends, too, on what free entertainment an airline offers (seatback, free airline content streaming, nothing).

  37. Gregory Lawrence Brown says:

    @a country lawyer:..time travel..

    I just stumbled back to your post from last Saturday’s Forum thread, the anniversary of the JFK assassination in 1963, where you wrote: “I was driving in to an afternoon physics lab in my ’68 VW which had only an AM radio…”
    If you still have that car maybe you can take it for a spin into the future and report back how the mid term elections turn out a year from now.

    2
  38. Kathy says:

    It’s not that they’re now saying the quiet part out loud, it’s that they don’t even realize it’s the quiet part.

    Congresswoman Maria Salazar blithely says the main reason to invade Venezuela is to take the oil: “The first of those reasons, she said, is that “Venezuela for the American oil companies will be a field day…”

    I’m sure there are economic justifications for this. I’m sure there are no moral or legal justifications at all.

    I’m also sure in this community I don’t need to explain what’s wrong with the idea, or why it’s a tremendously bad idea to begin with.

    Salazar continues with claims like “we’ll be welcomed as liberators,” because Maduro is unpopular. And that it will be just like Panama.

  39. a country lawyer says:

    @Gregory Lawrence Brown: Yeah, I caught that typo too late to correct it. It was a 1958 VW beetle, black with a sunroof. It had a 36 hp air cooled engine and could make 60 mph down hill. It had no gas gauge but little lever next to the accelerator that when kicked over gave an extra gallon of gas when the engine started to sputter.

    3
  40. Gregory Lawrence Brown says:

    @a country lawyer:..VW beetle
    Someone I knew in High School had one of those cars with no gas gauge. It was a real treat riding in traffic when it was low on gas.
    I remember seeing old VWs that had semaphore turn signals. I always thought they were neat!

    1
  41. Scott O says:

    @a country lawyer:
    “ It had no gas gauge but little lever “

    Most motorcycles didn’t have a gas gauge before 1985 or so and used that system. When the engine started sputtering you reached down and turned the lever from on to reserve. When you fill up you must remember to turn the lever back from reserve to on or next time you’re low on fuel there is no reserve. Don’t ask me how I know this.

    3