Saturday’s Forum

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FILED UNDER: Open Forum
Steven L. Taylor
About Steven L. Taylor
Steven L. Taylor is a retired Professor of Political Science and former College of Arts and Sciences Dean. His main areas of expertise include parties, elections, and the institutional design of democracies. His most recent book is the co-authored A Different Democracy: American Government in a 31-Country Perspective. He earned his Ph.D. from the University of Texas and his BA from the University of California, Irvine. He has been blogging since 2003 (originally at the now defunct Poliblog). Follow Steven on Twitter and/or BlueSky.

Comments

  1. Winecoff46 says:

    CNN confirms that President Trump has been lying about the prices of eggs, groceries, and gas. (Hat tip: Mark Evanier). I’m sure many Trump supporters will disregard that as fake news, and others will accept it as the price to pay for making ‘Merica “great again.”

    https://www.cnn.com/2025/04/23/politics/price-of-eggs-gas-trump-fact-check/index.html

    5
  2. Tony W says:

    @Winecoff46: Keeping the bar low has been the greatest strategic achievement of Donald Trump.

    4
  3. Fortune says:

    In the US, officers can arrest people based on arrest warrants or probable cause.

  4. Roger says:

    @Fortune: okay, I’ll bite. Is there a point you’re trying to make here?

    1
  5. Mikey says:

    USDA withdraws a plan to limit salmonella levels in raw poultry

    The Agriculture Department will not require poultry companies to limit salmonella bacteria in their products, halting a Biden Administration effort to prevent food poisoning from contaminated meat.

    The department on Thursday said it was withdrawing a rule proposed in August after three years of development. Officials with the USDA’s Food Safety and Inspection Service cited feedback from more than 7,000 public comments and said they would “evaluate whether it should update” current salmonella regulations.

    The rule would have required poultry companies to keep levels of salmonella bacteria under a certain threshold and test for the presence of six strains most associated with illness, including three found in turkey and three in chicken. If the levels exceeded the standard or any of those strains were found, the poultry couldn’t be sold and would be subject to recall, the proposal had said.

    The plan aimed to reduce an estimated 125,000 salmonella infections from chicken and 43,000 from turkey each year, according to USDA. Overall, salmonella causes 1.35 million infections a year, most through food, and about 420 deaths, according to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

    I had salmonella once. It was horrendous, and the effects hung around for weeks even after the acute phase of vomiting and diarrhea was past. Just terrible.

    This change in policy is of a piece with this administration’s “fuck you, you’re on your own” approach to public health in general.

    7
  6. Fortune says:

    @Roger: Sorry, a continuation from yesterday’s forum. I still don’t know the etiquette for it.

  7. Moosebreath says:

    @Mikey:

    “USDA withdraws a plan to limit salmonella levels in raw poultry”

    And yet Republicans continue to insist that they are pro-life, despite all evidence to the contrary.

    4
  8. Stormy Dragon says:

    UK bans trans people from both men’s and women’s bathrooms, changing room, etc.

    https://bsky.app/profile/esqueer.net/post/3lno6t3relc2m

    Also, lesbians are banned from talking to trans women without a man present

    3
  9. Tony W says:

    @Fortune: And do those officers then put the folks they arrest directly onto an airplane to a foreign country to be imprisoned without any courts reviewing the reason for the arrest?

    Or are you trying to make some other point?

    10
  10. Daryl says:

    I’m wondering if Zelensky will receive an apology from President Doughboy and VP Eyeliner for the White House kerfuffle last month? The point Zelensky was trying to make then is that Putin does not negotiate in good faith. Putin has proven that now. There is some AP reporting today that Trump is starting to understand that fellating Putin is just making him look weak and is now considering sanctions, which he previously removed. Just a reminder, it’s been much longer than the 24 hours Trump said it would take him to end the war.
    https://apnews.com/article/trump-russia-ukraine-zelenskyy-funeral-francis-vatican-7b3b3e6e194e7099e5463d1f23b5f3cf

    5
  11. Daryl says:

    @Tony W:
    Please do not pet the toad.

    6
  12. becca says:

    After all that rain, we did end up getting three French drains put in and some minor foundation repair. We are continuing to prepare for a quick sell, although our time line has been pushed back. The kids lives are far harder to unwind from these parts and we are leaving as a family.
    Unless I grow a wild hair and sell just about everything, buy a yurt and head for the Baja. Mr becca and I would make excellent beach bums.

    5
  13. Michael Reynolds says:

    @Daryl:
    The NYT poll in Joyner’s piece today has Trump 21 points underwater on Ukraine. And the NYT ran a piece today detailing the many, many ways Trump serves Putin. Trump will never disobey Putin, he may make barely audible mumbling noises, but when it comes to actually doing something he will always reliably serve Putin.

    People keep telling me it’s just affinity. Wannabe dictator loving on actual dictator. But Trump has been an obedient servant even when it makes him look weak. He has never shown even a fraction of this level of deference to anyone, ever. His subservience to Putin is unique and way out of character for Trump who famously shows no loyalty. So, I have from Day One believed that Putin has a hold on Trump. That hold might be financial or it might be blackmail. It is absolutely not affection or affinity.

    Trump is trying now to serve Putin while not being seen too clearly as a traitor, that’s what all his blather is about. He’s trying to find a path to obedience without being completely exposed. And Putin apparently DGAF, because Russians see Trump’s bootlicking as proof of Putin’s greatness.

    5
  14. Jim X 32 says:

    @Fortune: How about posting in Yesterday’s forum then? In fact, President Trump strongly advocates posting in Yesterday’s forum. So much so, that he built an entire foreign and domestic policy tailored for 36,000 yesterdays ago. No one does yesterday better than the President and true Conservatives.

    You can start, like Yesterday, being a true conservative and posting in Yesterday’s forum and leave today’s forum to the blacks, Jews, liberals, Never Trumpers, and LGBT, OTB commenters. The even better news– is that yesterdays forum is prime real estate for you to have 1-way conversations with yourseif–which is what you already do in Today’s forum. Now git going and good luck ya big lunk!

    11
  15. Kathy says:

    @Stormy Dragon:

    I really can’t comprehend what threat people think the smallest, most vulnerable minority ever can possibly pose, that they need to take such extreme, repressive measures.

    7
  16. gVOR10 says:

    @Kathy: The Jewish population of Germany in the 30s was less than 1%. Conservatives, politically and psychologically, need an enemy They prefer enemies who can’t hurt them.

    10
  17. Fortune says:

    @Jim X 32: Yesterday people were unclear about whether police could arrest someone with probable cause. You say I want a one-way conversation but I don’t hide out on sites where everyone agrees with me.

  18. Stormy Dragon says:

    Imagine the uproar if Obama had worn a blue suit to a state funeral:

    Trump accused of Pope Francis funeral faux pas after ‘breaking dress code’ then leaving early

    3
  19. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @Roger: I think he’s starting to channel Paul L. Is it possible that he’s been a Paul L. sock puppet all along?

    1
  20. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @Mikey: This reminds me of the manager of the restaurant I worked at who complained after the health inspector had lowered the score of our restaurant because a turkey had been left to cool on the counter. The manager said that it’s perfectly safe to let the turkey cool on the counter because only 65% of commercially processed turkeys are infected with salmonella.

    2
  21. Fortune says:

    @Just nutha ignint cracker: Paul L replies to unresolved topics on the next day’s forum?

  22. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @Fortune: It was only a speculation. A snarky speculation, but a speculation all the same. I’m sorry if you took offense. But yes, Paul L. has done that sometimes, IIRC.

    Of course, I’m willing to accept that you might have specific information that would show me wrong on this assertion. I can live with being wrong. It has happened before. Not often, but sometimes all the same.

  23. Fortune says:

    @Just nutha ignint cracker: To prove I’m not a second commenter? How about of the hundreds of complaints about me you’re the first one to say I sound like Paul L? Not proof but evidence. Your turn, you sound like 20 other commenters.

  24. Kathy says:
  25. Michael Reynolds says:

    @Just nutha ignint cracker:
    I doubt he’s Paul L because he has not yet found a rapist to defend, and Paul just loves him some rapists because, as you know, Duke Lacrosse proved all rape accusations are false.

    More likely it’s Drew/Pachinko/Guarneri/Kamchatka/Connor. I told Drew if he wanted to sneak around undiscovered he should conceal his obsession with me. And so far @Fortune has done that. The age group is right because Fortune was upset by a paraphrased Simon and Garfunkel lyric, so, old.

    But intellectually he could be Drew or JKB or any of that tedious species. The tactics are all the same: deny you’re a MAGA cultie and find a nit and pick it while hiding out from any real issue. Then pat yourself on the back for being a brave little boy and fighting the libtards.

    Intellectual cowardice is the biggest tell for all Trump trolls. We have yet to see one with the capacity to actually discuss an issue like, for example, Russia. Or inflation. Or tariffs. Or the falling dollar. Or the anti-vaxx crap. Or cuts to cancer research.

    If one of these clowns ever grows a pair it’ll be a surprise.

    4
  26. CSK says:

    @Kathy:

    Heartwarming.

    1
  27. Fortune says:

    @Michael Reynolds: I don’t understand why people can’t follow a reply to yesterday’s conversation about arrests but will remember the time I criticized them for misquoting a song lyric. Who’s obsessed?

  28. Michael Reynolds says:

    @Fortune:
    Whoever you are you’re a bore – which certainly suggests a Drew connection – as well as a troll.

    You are now on ignore.

    2
  29. Slugger says:

    I found two law firms that specialize in salmonella lawsuits. Would compliance with the Biden poultry regulations cost the industry more than the lawsuits? Perhaps the industry should get the guy figuring out car recalls in Fight Club to analyze this.

  30. becca says:

    @gVOR10: My older, tightly wound sister took up the anti- trans cause with a feverish zeal before $trump I. Out of the blue, it seemed.
    Knowing her, I think a lot had to do with her having really repressive and conflicted feelings about her own sexuality.
    We haven’t had contact in years, even though she moved near here a few years ago. I just can’t compartmentalize all that hate.

    2
  31. becca says:

    @gVOR10: My older, tightly wound sister took up the anti- trans cause with a feverish zeal before $trump I. Out of the blue, it seemed.
    Knowing her, I think a lot had to do with her having really repressive and conflicted feelings about her own sexuality.
    We haven’t had contact in years, even though she moved near here a few years ago. I just can’t compartmentalize all that hate.

    1
  32. Jim X 32 says:

    @Kathy: The same reason American whites dominated enslaved Blacks for centuries. They weren’t a threat–and dominating them made whites feel good about their place in the social hierarchy.

    When Blacks became an actual threat–passing civil rights legislation happened in pretty short order.

    3
  33. Kathy says:

    @Winecoff46:

    Proper doublethink mandates the belief that eggs at, say, $4 per dozen in the Biden era are outrageously expensive and a disgrace, while eggs at $6 per dozen in the Dumb Brother era are dirt cheap and the greatest blessing from the rapist, because they were so expensive before.

    5
  34. becca says:

    The Pope got some final thoughts about 47 out from beyond.
    https://www.rappler.com/world/global-affairs/pope-francis-funeral-mass-homily-cardinal-giovanni-battista-re/
    In front of all those heads of state and millions of people…

    1
  35. Mr. Prosser says:

    @Stormy Dragon: @Kathy: The Vatican hierarchy allowed our blue suited president (the suit has to be a big FU) to be seated in the first row at the funeral. They get what they deserve bending the knee. Good on Macron.

    1
  36. Kathy says:

    @Mr. Prosser:

    No link handy, but I read somewhere the Vatican employs an old diplomatic protocol for such things, seating dignitaries in alphabetical order according t their country’s name in French. This would put Etats Unis pretty early in the order.

    However, Ukraine is spelled the same in Franch, but they place Zelenskyy in the front row as well, against protocol. I’ve seen no explanation for this.

    Of course, the rapist surely thinks he was the guest of honor, and that they held off on having the funeral until he could be there.

    1
  37. charontwo says:

    https://bsky.app/profile/did:plc:wstpte2vzb4ra2iqtnw2d2ef/post/3lnprrhr2qk2q

    It appears that the charges against Judge Dugan were totally baseless, and that federal authorities had decided *beforehand* to arrest her to send a message to judges around the nation.

    https://bsky.app/profile/thetnholler.bsky.social/post/3lnpnxmiuu223

    WISCONSIN: The chair of the elections commission, a lawyer, breaks down what actually happened using the actual complaint.

    Arresting judges like this is a wild fast-forwarding of our plunge into authoritarianism.

    7
  38. becca says:

    @Mr. Prosser: Did you hear the eulogy? The Vatican got the last laugh.

    1
  39. charontwo says:
  40. charontwo says:
  41. Michael Reynolds says:

    Wow. Humongous explosion in the port at Bandar Abbas in Iran. There seems to be general agreement that it was missile fuel elements either in, or unloaded from, a Chinese ship. No one is yet suggesting the US played a part. But if it’s not just careless handling of boom-booms the two other suspects would have to be Israel and Ukraine.

    1
  42. just nutha says:

    @Fortune: My assertion in my reply was that Paul L. has responded to unresolved questions from previous days. If you want to refute that, carry on. I already knew you probably weren’t a sock puppet, as my acknowledgement of snarkiness might have implied to any number of other people who aren’t looking for fights to pick.

    But I’m enjoying the sparring with you too much again now, so I’m going (re)join Michael Reynolds* and add not replying to comments by others about you.

    *Agreeing with MR is something I almost never do anymore. For me, he’s easily as tiresome as you, Lounsbury, or Drew/Connor/Whoever. At least JKB makes me laugh still.

    1
  43. CSK says:

    Virginia Roberts Guiffre, 41, Prince Andrew’s accuser, has died by suicide. RIP.

  44. just nutha says:

    @charontwo: Thank you for the change of view on a complex question.

    The plunge into authoritarianism has been obvious. What to do about it without trampling “rule of law”* continues to be problematic, though.

    *And I continue to put the term in scare quotes because I continue to hold that it’s a social construct completely overwhelmed by partisanship.

    1
  45. just nutha says:

    @Stormy Dragon: @charontwo: The picture actually helps Trump’s case a little. In that picture, the shadows make the shade of blue significantly less garish than it is in real life.

    But I feel Trump’s pain and embarrassment, I, too, have been of such narrow economic means, that I only had one suit. I didn’t choose that shade of blue in such times.

    Or any other, for that matter. That shade is a really bad choice. It always looks shabby. Especially on a guy as large as Trump.

    2
  46. gVOR10 says:

    @becca:

    I think a lot had to do with her having really repressive and conflicted feelings about her own sexuality.

    It’s sad that your sister has gone there and become estranged from you. I think repressed and conflicted sexual feeling enter into a lot of conservative opinion. I think they’re afraid of feeling attraction to the wrong people.

    3
  47. charontwo says:

    Trump’s taste in art to hang in the White House:

    Link

    In yet another move to redecorate The White House, President Donald Trump has displayed another self-portrait, this time right next to former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, still hung up from her time as first lady.

    Attendees at Monday’s annual White House Egg Roll revealed the new portrait — posting pictures of it to social media, which is a close up of Trump’s face. Imposed over the face of the president, who was branded the ‘dumbest president ever’ for a shocking 6-word geography comment, are the stars and strips of the American flag.

    he portrait, which has been described as “hideous” is hung in a permanent location just outside the East Wing of the White House, where First Lady Melania Trump has her offices. Visitors taking the official White House tour pass by that location. It comes just a day after the White House’s ‘narcissistic ‘ five-word tribute to the Pope.

    Some more tasteful White House art:

    Link

    Narcissism completely over-the-top.

    1
  48. Kathy says:

    @charontwo:

    “Self-portrait” means he painted it himself. I find that hard to believe.

    If it’s by the trophy wife’s office, does it then hang with the other first ladies? Was that the chief nazi’s idea?

    1
  49. CSK says:

    @charontwo: @Kathy:

    Abominations.

  50. Daryl says:

    @Stormy Dragon:
    They wanted to impeach Obama for wearing a khaki suit but for sure they will excuse President Flabby Tits Doughboy for his blue suit and fiddling with his phone and unwrapping his adderall-dosed* chewing gum whilst everyone else paid solemn attention.
    BTW…the guy they called Sleepy Joe managed to wear a black suit to a funeral, plus he oversaw 9 straight quarters of stock gains and strong job growth. Ol’ Diaper Donnie f’ed up all three in under 100 days.

    *I do not know it was adderall-dosed but many people are saying it is. I’m just asking the question…

    6
  51. charontwo says:

    Bouie:

    NYT Gift

    But there is another, less obvious way in which this observation is true. American governance is a collaborative venture. At minimum, to successfully govern the United States, a president must work with Congress, heed the courts and respect the authority of the states, whose Constitutions are also imbued with the sovereignty of the people. And in this arrangement, the president can’t claim rank. He’s not the boss of Congress or the courts or the states; he’s an equal.

    The president is also not the boss of the American people. He cannot order them to embrace his priorities, nor is he supposed to punish them for disagreement with him. His powers are largely rhetorical, and even the most skilled presidents cannot shape an unwilling public.

    Trump rejects all of this. He rejects the equal status of Congress and the courts. He rejects the authority of the states. He does not see himself as a representative working with others to lead the nation; he sees himself as a boss, whose will ought to be law. And in turn, he sees the American people as employees, each of us obligated to obey his commands.

    Trump is not interested in governing a republic of equal citizens. To the extent that he’s even dimly aware of the traditions of American democracy, he holds them in contempt. What Trump wants is to lord over a country whose people have no choice but to show fealty and pledge allegiance not to the nation but to him.

    What was it Trump said about Kim Jong-un, the North Korean dictator, during his first term in office? “Hey, he’s the head of a country. And I mean he is the strong head. Don’t let anyone think anything different,” Trump said in 2018. “He speaks, and his people sit up at attention. I want my people to do the same.”

    He wants his people to do the same.

    1
  52. wr says:

    @Fortune: ” How about of the hundreds of complaints about me you’re the first one to say I sound like Paul L?”

    Quick, what’s the first thing you think of when you hear the word lacrosse?

    6
  53. DK says:

    @Fortune:

    You say I want a one-way conversation but I don’t hide out on sites where everyone agrees with me.

    Not the flex you think it is. For example, I assume even serial killers don’t want to hang out with serial killers. This has more negative implications for serial killers than for those who find serial killing repugnant.

    Preferring the company of patriots to the company of deplorables isn’t so special.

    4
  54. charontwo says:

    It’s not just Trump, Vance is behaving like a king also.

    https://digbysblog.net/2025/04/26/the-ugly-american/

    1
  55. Fortune says:

    @Daryl: Refresh my memory, what Republican other than Peter King complained about Obama’s tan suit?

  56. Gustopher says:

    @Michael Reynolds:

    Trump will never disobey Putin, he may make barely audible mumbling noises, but when it comes to actually doing something he will always reliably serve Putin.

    People keep telling me it’s just affinity.

    Which is more pathetic: Trump being a Russian asset, or Trump honestly believing that he’s a great man and a great deal maker and that he can get Putin to end the war in Ukraine and become a great American ally if we just give Putin a little of what he wants as a compromise? The latter, by far.

    Instinctively, I assume the most pathetic. But also, I don’t think Trump has the self-discipline to not bite the hand that feeds him, or the hand that holds the pee tape. He’s doing this all very willingly.

    And this matches most of the leaks we have heard coming from the “sources close to the president”.

    5
  57. Daryl says:

    @Gustopher:

    Which is more pathetic: Trump being a Russian asset, or Trump honestly believing that he’s a great man and a great deal maker and that he can get Putin to end the war in Ukraine and become a great American ally if we just give Putin a little of what he wants as a compromise? The latter, by far.

    I think they’re both part and parcel of the same thing. I think Trump is a totally unwitting asset and they recruited him, as an asset, by playing into his belief in his own (nonexistent) business acumen. I believe they have used this chump for decades and he’s too dumb to know he’s being used. He’d have to be a criminal mastermind to work out all the money laundering and espionage and whatnot. And the idiot couldn’t even pay hush money to Stormy Daniels in a proper manner.

    4
  58. Kurtz says:

    @Just nutha ignint cracker: @Michael Reynolds:

    If Fortune is a commenter from the past, my vote is for WebTV guy.

    1
  59. Beth says:

    @Stormy Dragon:

    So, I think it’s actually more complex and way stupider than she lets on. JohnSF might be able to shed some light on the differences between guidance and statute when it comes to the ruling in general.

    As far as I can tell, this idiotic guidance doesn’t have the force of law, yet. It’s more about who can get sued and how things fit. But I’m sure there are statutory changes because holy shit do they HATE the trans here. Just straight up despise us.

    Anyway, so, let’s talk about how stupid this is. I current can use whatever toilet I want no statute against it. I can probably be denied the use of the women’s toilet. I can also be denied the use of the men’s toilet. Then the fun starts. If there are men’s and women’s toilets, but no trans toilets, I can bring a complaint for discrimination.

    Here’s where it’s gonna go into stupid overdrive. My US passport lists my name “Beth” and has an F. By law, my UK passport has to match the name on my UK passport and it’s likely that the F has to match too. But wilder than that, my UK passport will be based on my IL birth cert that lists my sex as F. I’m pretty sure that under the 2023 amendments to IL’s Birth Cert laws I can get the “Amended” knocked off the title. Thus, my sex at birth is F which it was.

    I guess I’m just gonna have to keep my birth cert on me at all times.

    The absolute meanness of this idiocy is going to blow this up. Some tall cis woman is going to get her teeth kicked in in a toilet and then it’s gonna be wild.

    5
  60. Beth says:

    @charontwo:

    Ohhh! So it was a shakedown….

  61. Beth says:

    @charontwo:

    Ohhh! So it was a shakedown….

  62. Jax says:

    @Kurtz: I’m about 50/50 on it being Pearce.

    1
  63. Gustopher says:

    @Jax: I think you are not remembering the length of Pearce’s posts.

    3