Thursday’s Forum
Steven L. Taylor
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Thursday, August 29, 2024
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46 comments
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About Steven L. Taylor
Steven L. Taylor is a retired Professor of Political Science and former College of Arts and Sciences Dean. His main areas of expertise include parties, elections, and the institutional design of democracies. His most recent book is the co-authored
A Different Democracy: American Government in a 31-Country Perspective. He earned his Ph.D. from the University of Texas and his BA from the University of California, Irvine. He has been blogging since 2003 (originally at the now defunct Poliblog).
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One thing I’ve noticed over the years is that a lot of right-wingers seem to have no goddamn idea what the word “sarcastic” means. The other day J.D. Vance claimed his “childless cat ladies” remark was sarcastic. It’s important to understand he isn’t just lying to cover his ass. It’s somewhat in the category of when Trump talks about his “perfect phone calls,” in that he’s using an everyday word in a very odd and nonstandard way. What in the original remark could possibly be construed as sarcastic? Sarcasm means saying the opposite of what you mean, right? Did he mean the women he referred to were not childless cat ladies? If so, then what point was he possibly trying to make? It sounds almost like the Yale Law grad thinks sarcasm is some kind of umbrella term for any statement that’s not intended to be taken 100% literally, and that this automatically absolves him of responsibility for any offense it causes.
It’s hardly the first time a right-winger has used the word “sarcastic” in this weird way. Trump has done it several times over the years to dismiss criticisms of things he’s said (e.g. injecting bleach to combat Covid), and a while back I saw Chaya Raichik invoke this defense during a feud she got into with DeSantis supporters.
It’s not like any of these people necessarily don’t understand the concept of sarcasm. They engage in sarcasm themselves from time to time. One example is one of Trump’s most infamous remarks, the one about John McCain: “He’s not a war hero. He was a war hero because he was captured. I like people who weren’t captured.”
The second sentence is an example of sarcasm. He calls McCain a war hero immediately after saying McCain wasn’t a war hero, because he’s mocking the idea. That’s what sarcasm is: a statement that says the opposite of what it intends to communicate, as a means of mockery and derision. Of course, the fact that it’s sarcastic isn’t in any way a defense of what he said. The statement is disgusting because of the message it conveys, and he conveys that message partly through sarcasm.
The problem isn’t that the right doesn’t know how to be sarcastic, it’s that they think the word is some kind of get-out-of-jail-free card for any stupid or offensive thing they say. I find this deeply bizarre. Is sarcasm that hard a concept to grasp?
@Kylopod:
I find this deeply bizarre.
Maybe this works, dunno:
“Edroso“
Bonoism of the day:
Every artist is a cannibal, every poet is a thief;
All kill their inspiration and sing about the grief.
@Kylopod:
The problem is the space aliens sent Earth a malfunctioning unit when it placed Vance on the planet. They didn’t check its vocabulary setting as well as they should have and he misuses words and phrases much of the time. We’ll just have to wait until his warranty is up and they send a replacement.
@Kylopod: “Sarcastic/sarcasm” has come to mean a version of “I was just joking” or something similar, particularly for a certain brand of conservative.
This is the challenge of the whole “language changes!” response. When common use takes a word and completely changes its meaning, we’re left with incoherent statements like Vance’s. One would think a Yale grad would know better. /shrugs
@Kylopod:
Apparently it is, for someone with no sense of humor. Or self awareness.
@Jen:
@gVOR10:
I meant to comment that sarcasm is a often meant as humor*, and a lot of politicos on the rights, starting with the Weirdo Felon, seem to have no clue what humor even is.
*Most often a mean kind of humor.
@Kathy:
I’m convinced mean humor is the only kind of humor he even understands. Take his rant about the “late, great Hannibal Lecter.” The quote he references–“I’m having an old friend for dinner”–was a genuinely funny line in the original film. While Trump is doing the annoying thing of ruining a joke by explaining it, it is clear he got the joke, and enjoyed it–because it’s the exact type of joke Trump would appreciate, a dark, mean-spirited one, albeit far too clever for Trump to think up himself, and delivered with a drollness that Trump has no idea how to replicate; it’s like a hippopotamus trying to channel Fred Astaire.
Once again the US Military is demonstrating either their fear of speaking out against Trump and other thuggish Republicans or, more worrisomely, the fact that so many officers actually support these traitors. Not a single Army official is willing to speak publicly about the Arlington cemetery incident and aside from a single anonymous quote, are letting the cemetary worker twist in the wind.
@Kylopod: Not specifically political, but my pet peeve is people using “literally” when they literally mean “figuratively”.
The idea of using “literally” when they mean exactly the opposite, literally drives me crazy.
@Kylopod:
A lot of humor is mean, some even cruel. It doesn’t have to be, but it seems it’s funnier to be mean.
@charontwo: I like the start of that, but I don’t like signing up for 7 days of free access to read the rest.
@Tony W: This is such a fascinating [used in the early 1800s sense, not in the original literal sense of bewitching] pet [used in the early 1800s figurative sense] peeve [a redoubling of the 1500s sense of “pet” as something that results in peevishness, but maybe that fell out of favor so that peeve had to be added back like a retronym] (ok, I’m done), since it’s a linguistically old usage (hundreds of years!)
But a lot of people profess to hate it and consider it vastly incorrect. It has the feel of a deep-rooted class distinguisher and fighting it is about as useful as a battle against the words “decimate” or “tome” or something.
But hey, we all have them! I grew up with the phrase “couldn’t care less” but here in the NE most people use the opposing “could care less” that used to eat my soul a little every time I heard it. I’m still trying to get over it.
@Franklin:
Thanks for the feedback – the site must recognize me as a subscriber because I do not get that.
Here is some more of that:
Link from the piece:
“Newsweek“
Speaking of mean humor, yesterday I found the Mythbusters ep where the build team shocks Adam with a cattle fence device.
Without going into much detail about the ep, they were “testing” that an electric shock can induce a religious experience. The whole thing was meant as a practical joke.
Now, before shocking an unsuspecting Adam, tow of the team tried it. There were no injuries, but it was clear it hurt a LOT. Namely because they said it. Tori said “we can’t do this to Adam.” While Scotty claimed it was like being punched hard in the chest. Nevertheless, they left it up to Kari, who decided to carry on.
When Adam gets shocked, you can see he’s angry at the intensity of it. Imagine a joke where you punch someone hard in the chest. IMO, he looked furious. To that point, I’d saw nothing funny about the whole thing.
But remember this was a test of a shock inducing a religious experience. Kari then asked him “Did you feel God?” And for some reason that made me laugh really hard, and for a long time.
It wasn’t funny, but there it is.
My father, retired CWO Don Reynolds, died peacefully and painlessly this morning at age 87. He was a good man and lived a good life. He served his country capably with two tours in Vietnam, earning a bronze star, as the first skipper of the Army yacht on the Potomac, and as skipper of an ocean-going tugboat stationed in the Azores. In the days before GPS he was the most capable sailor in the Army. He was a class act in every way.
We were not close, so please no condolences necessary. We never were very close and my two decade disappearing act killed whatever relationship we had. But he was always more generous and forgiving than he probably should have been. He adopted me when he married my mother.
What I know about being a father to an adopted child, I learned from him.
@Michael Reynolds:..
Peace, love and tears…
@Michael Reynolds:
Every good man and woman leading a good life deserves remembrance.
This interesting:
From Stars and Stripes:
Read more at: https://www.stripes.com/theaters/us/2024-08-27/texas-national-guard-death-benefits-border-mission-14993111.html”
I haven’t heard anything about this. While the causes of these deaths are varied; automotive accidents, medical issues and at least one accidental gun incident (do they have clearing barrels where troops are carrying firearms?) this seems like a lot for domestic duty. Then again it might be right in line with normal actuarial death rates for all I know.
This line Added with edit … !!!!
@Kylopod:
I don’t see that as mean at all. It’s dark humor, sure. And wordplay, which seems a bit advanced for Trump as he hasn’t mastered words enough to play with them. But mean? Who is it mean to?
It’s like saying: “When die, I want my remains to be scattered across Disneyland. No cremation, please.” No one is the butt of the joke.
The Hannibal line may be the only bit of humor I have seen Trump use or reference that isn’t just an insult or self-aggrandizement.
ETA: The edit window is longer! And edit!
@MarkedMan: I believe that the US Military has a policy or practice of not saying things that can be taken as political.
I expect that has a lot to do with why military leaders aren’t more outspoken on the Altercation In Arlington.
@MarkedMan:
The Army PA Office issued a statement today defending the cemetery worker. According to Mediate,
And the full statement from the Army reads:
The piece also stated that the New York Times had reported that while the cemetery worker “filed an incident report with the military authorities over the altercation,” they “later declined to press charges” for fear of “retaliation” from Trump’s supporters.
In addition to this threat of stochastic terrorism, Trump wields the direct threat of retaliation that a possible second Trump term could bring against federal workers and contractors that are are deemed to be disloyal or somehow troublesome. He and his minions have very clearly stated that perceived troublemakers or those presenting administrative roadblocks to their objectives will be removed. That gives TFG more influence right now, in some respects, over portions of the federal workforce interested in keeping their career paths on track than the current administration.
@Gustopher:
The obsession with the Hannibal joke reminds me of a six year old who keeps repeating the joke “why is six afraid of seven? Because seven ate nine.”
@Gustopher:
Dr. Chilton.
Of course, Dr. Chilton is depicted throughout the film as such an asshole that we, the audience, aren’t exactly shedding a tear at his presumed demise (that’s part of what makes it possible for us to laugh). But that doesn’t mean it isn’t mean.
@Eusebio: I retract my previous statement. I spoke in anger and in haste, neither of which leads to a good outcome and in combination almost always ends poorly.
@Michael Reynolds: If no condolences for you, then certainly to his close friends and family. Sounds like he was a stand-up guy. May he rest in peace.
@charontwo: For me, Adam Sandler has always been too crude and stupid to watch, so I have no idea of what his fans think. I’ve always felt the same about Trump, so I guess I understand the pseudo pundit’s point, sort of.
@just nutha:
I liked some of his characters on SNL, like Opera Man, but they grew old and tiresome quickly.
@MarkedMan:
The Army’s statement wasn’t released until late this morning, so there was reason to believe they weren’t staunchly defending the employee over the incident that occurred on Monday, and for which the Trump campaign’s statement, “…for whatever reason an unnamed individual, clearly suffering from a mental health episode, decided to physically block members of President Trump’s team…”, had been out there since Tuesday.
Tweet includes visuals to make the point, Obama/Biden, Romney/Ryan, HRC/Kaine, Trump/Pence.
https://x.com/hjessy_/status/1828791027911753974
Can a former Commander in Chief be dishonorably discharged? That would be worth the price of admission…
It seems to me stock buy backs exist to manipulate the market, and to increase compensation to executives, and possibly board members.
This piece focuses on how they are carried out at the expense of better compensation for employees. That’s evidently so. But I think quite often they’re also done at the expense of the company.
I can see buying back shares to head off a takeover attempt, or even as a substitute for dividends (and not entirely*). Otherwise I fail to see how a company benefits from this, as opposed to raising wages to attract more or better workers, or investing in new plants, equipment, methods, R&D, etc.
I’ve the sneaky feeling buy backs serve for the top executives and the board to loot their own company, but I don’t really understand the overly complicated intricacies involved.
On 8/23 we discussed the end of affirmative action for admission to MIT. This morning I read that the entering class for Cal Tech this year is majority female. MIT is 49% female. Interesting.
Rick- I suspect that Texas is not going to hand out death benefits to those who committed suicide. I disagree strongly with that. Having been deployed you get to see that some people just dont do well when they are deployed and lose family support. While you are gone things happen with family that you think you could have prevented if you were there and you feel guilty. I think they should give death benefits to those people.
More generally, the death rate seems high but not really surprising. As I already noted you expect more suicides. Gun accidents are universal. Then, if you have been deployed you know what happens when you have a bunch of young guys hanging out together and getting bored. They find ways to do stupid stuff. That includes drinking and fighting.
Steve
https://x.com/OurShallowState/status/1829185095204561392
https://x.com/OurShallowState/status/1829185618318111082
https://x.com/OurShallowState/status/1828916779521061145
@Michael Reynolds: A life well lived.
Youtube re Trump narcissism and dementia
https://www.youtube.com/live/-QaWN1Vzu_0
Metaphor for the situation in Israel: the Hamas hostage freed earlier thus week is returning to a village thst the Israel Land Authority is planning to bulldoze so that it can forcibly relocate all the Arab Israelis that live there
https://apnews.com/article/bedouin-village-hostage-demolition-israel-arab-7f67ea47c7fb96a966dd8e45a2556a15
Has there ever been a more spineless Speaker than Mike Johnson?
“ANC is a national shrine to the honored dead of the Armed Forces, and its dedicated staff will continue to ensure public ceremonies are conducted with the dignity and respect the nation’s fallen deserve. Except to the extent that political actors have influence and/or followers who are able to effectively intimidate ANC employees to guarantee that charges are dropped or not filed.”
FTFT.
@Lucysfootball:
I can make a good case for Kevin, who handed the Krazies the rope, the gallows, and his neck size to get the job for a few months.
California advanced a law to regulate AI.
The law might be good or bad. I can’t say yet with the minimal info on it, and lack of any critical analysis of it. But this reaction by opponents, mostly venture capital and tech firms is 100% wrong:
1) Have you seen the federal government take swift action when it’s so divided?
2) It’s high time corporations and their backers are held accountable for the foreseeable consequences of their products, rather than keep on allowing them to shift the blame for bad outcomes on consumers. The latter are not qualified to judge or evaluate such consequences, and mostly they don’t even know what these are.
Trump is still insisting that the Medal of Freedom is better than the Medal of Honor.
@CSK:
Of course he is. He’s never been wrong in his life. Ask him if you don’t believe me. He’ll keep repeating that until he finds some other turd to chew on.
Speaking of which, the Boeing Starliner will return to Earth on Sept. 6, without its crew onboard.
Just remember that just because their ride is coming back without them, and they now depend on another mission to get home some months from now, doesn’t mean the Starliner crew is stranded. And above all, the billions Boeing has spent on stock buybacks created a lot of jobs in some unknowable fashion somewhere.
@Slugger:
I think this a result of the most selective universities having far more extraordinarily well qualified applicants than they have spaces in the upcoming class. It allows those universities to assemble a class that has approximate gender equity and, to some extent, diversity with respect to various considerations (but no longer race).
In the last Common Data Set that I see posted for MIT, 2022-2023, women were 36% of those who applied, 51% of those admitted, and 49% of those enrolled. And MIT’s not alone—for Carnegie Mellon University 2023-2024, women were 40% of those who applied, 52% of those admitted, and 49% of those enrolled.