Tuesday’s Forum
Steven L. Taylor
·
Tuesday, October 15, 2024
·
53 comments
OTB relies on its readers to support it. Please consider helping by becoming a monthly contributor through Patreon or making a one-time contribution via PayPal. Thanks for your consideration.
About Steven L. Taylor
Steven L. Taylor is a Professor Emeritus of Political Science and former College of Arts and Sciences Dean. His main areas of expertise include parties, elections, and the institutional design of democracies. His most recent book is the co-authored
A Different Democracy: American Government in a 31-Country Perspective. He earned his Ph.D. from the University of Texas and his BA from the University of California, Irvine. He has been blogging since 2003 (originally at the now defunct Poliblog).
Follow Steven on
Twitter and/or
BlueSky.
You all should ensure this gets properly viralised: the Trump vacancy: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/14/us/politics/trump-town-hall-dj-music.html – Trump as a fascist threat has already convinced everyone it will convince, Trump as a declining old weirdo and bumbler to be mocked… Spacing out a half-hour on stage to music is well into weird territory for old men campaigning for Presidency.
The Post version:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/10/14/trump-music-sways-town-hall/
https://x.com/RhondaLucci/status/1845528752836767960
So stranded after show without transport back to the parking area. Maybe after long wait a few busses sporadically showed.
https://x.com/CulRMartin/status/1845615543765627177
Trump claiming crowd of 100,000.
https://x.com/AntifaWearsPink/status/1845361142513688938
I.e,. a different locale than the site of the Coachella Valley Music and Arts Festival. (Link above includes an aerial view of the two locales).
Another aerial view:
https://x.com/KaJo503/status/1845725656350433347
Anothe map:
https://x.com/TracyLinco/status/1845534104428921158
@charontwo:
So this “town hall” (so-called) is Trump answering a bunch of questions he wants to be asked.
@charontwo: Yet Trump still couldn’t handle it. Poor old man is exhausted. Took four questions then called it a nigh. Stood there for a half hour, spacing out in bad pancake makeup to bad music. And apparently, attendees were passing out from the heat in the small, poorly-ventilated venue.
This, after Trump left his rally goers devastated and stranded in the California desert at night for hours on end, because he didn’t pay the bus company.
If the Trump campaign advance team were Apprentice contestants he’d fire them. But maybe Trump is too elderly and infirm to care anymore. The Trump campaign is cheap, confused, tired, and incompetent — and it starts with the candidate himself.
The man and his supporters are a danger to themselves and others. They need psych evals, and some need 51/50 involuntary commitment.
https://x.com/atrupar/status/1845983782307844590
Over 2 minutes clip embedded video above.
https://x.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1846006472599060867/photo/1
https://x.com/atrupar/status/1845947366488039493
@DK:
I have seen a lot of speculation what happened with the busses, I do not feel like I really have seen an accurate account yet.
The parking areas were over 3 miles away as the crow flies, must have been longer to walk.
@charontwo: Eh, that’s pretty standard. Town halls screen questions because no one wants to get the inevitable “why are you hiding evidence of extraterrestrials”-type questions. That said, legitimate campaigns are just screening for that type of nonsense. I’m sure Trump’s team bulks it up with softballs.
The only candidate I’ve seen in recent years do something different was Pete Buttigieg. People wrote questions on pieces of paper, and those pieces were gathered in a box. The box’s contents were dumped into a big glass bowl onstage, in front of everyone–no culling or sorting. The moderator would pull questions out and ask them. It was the least-screened process I’ve witnessed.
Atrupar is also on Bluesky, but without as much content as at Twitter:
So for you all Twitter boycotters, https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.bsky.social
@charontwo: I read an account from a person who claimed to be a bus driver hired for the event. This fellow said that the waiting area became a violent scene in which the drivers were being attacked and threatened because there weren’t enough busses running and it was taking too long between runs, so most of the drivers called it a night and left rather than risk further attacks.
This may be propaganda, but it is entirely plausible given what we know about the guy and his campaign “organization”.
@Jen:
From Atrupar thread of clips:
https://x.com/atrupar/status/1845967889746014365
https://x.com/atrupar/status/1845970546309169327
From now on just quotes no links, (avoiding moderation),
On second thought just a new post with more links …
https://x.com/atrupar/status/1845974762176029035
https://x.com/atrupar/status/1845976004797300896
https://x.com/atrupar/status/1845978409257607408
Etc., etc. seems even weirder than the Post’s account, really unhinged.
Interesting article re one of Harris’ policy proposals that has some people unhappy:
“Kamala Harris this week proposed to have Medicare cover in-home care for seniors and people with disabilities, in what would amount to a major expansion of the beloved federal health insurance program. And while it doesn’t appear to have registered as such in the political conversation (more on that in a minute), her plan made an impression on a lot of everyday Americans who heard about it.”
Source: https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/kamala-harris-medicare-home-care-attention_n_67094dc3e4b0f3da6456d7f1
https://x.com/atrupar/status/1845986852949409852
https://www.publicnotice.co/subscribe
@Lounsbury:
I remember when “public opinion” deemed Howard Dean unpresidential when he yelled with too much exuberance after the Iowa primary. [sigh] Good times…
You might be surprised to learn – Trump obliterated the borderlines of Weirder Territory a long time ago.
@Not the IT Dept.:
Interesting piece, thanks.
@Not the IT Dept.: It’s a good idea, but the details are going to matter. New York State has a similar program, and costs have exploded.
@charontwo: Yep, Trump is different. I know that. Was just pointing out that screening questions at a town hall event is standard. His “answers,” such that they are, are not.
@Lounsbury:
NYT account, as usual, is more sanewashed, Post somewhat more explicit.
NYT really really wants those views and subscribers from another Trump term.
@Jen:
As you can tell if you read the whole article, costs have already exploded and they’re being born by families losing their savings and their sanity caring for elderly parents. Having the government step in and spread the costs around strikes me as the kind of Democratic policy that’s need right now.
@charontwo: In this instance, I can not disagree as to characterisation although motivations are another matter, but the WP and others are superior in conveying.
I had to drive past the Oaks, Pennsylvania rally on the way home last night. The venue is adjacent to a major highway, which meant the Secret Service made an absolute mess of traffic right in the middle of evening rush hour
That California Charlie Foxtrot is a scaled-down indicator of how Trump will f*** the entire country and leave it stranded.
https://www.sfgate.com/politics/article/trump-rally-attendees-stranded-california-desert-19837078.php
@charontwo:
My bad; I didn’t see you already posted about that. I just ran straight to the comment box with it.
@Not the IT Dept.: I did read the whole article…and I’m very familiar with the New York program (CDPAP). I’m in favor of doing this, but the details DO matter. New York’s program was expected to cost several hundred million dollars; it cost more than $9 billion last year.
Pointing out that this is already in existence and that there are challenges is NOT the same as objecting to the program.
As I’ve said before, if a venue, restaurant, concert, etc. is so loud you need earplugs, then maybe it shouldn’t be so loud.
@DeD:
I read your sfgate link and followed its links.
My relatives in Pennsylvania can’t wait for the election to be over. They’ve been inundated by the cacophony of noise for weeks.
Election seasons are miserable in battleground states. We’re having a much nicer Autumn in New England. And bonus, I’m seeing far fewer Trump lawn displays now than in the previous 8 years!
Maybe the problem with the DC movies is they don’t know how to do sequels.
Not the entire problem, but a big part of it. I didn’t see the first joker movie, and don’t intend to, but it was a big hit with critics and audiences. The sequel is bombing. Same goes for Wonder Woman and Shazam. First movie great, sequel best forgotten. I saw the first Aquaman movie but not the second. I don’t think the sequel was a big box office hit.
The only other pattern I can see, is all these first movies are origin stories, even if some characters had appeared in other movies before (like Wonder Woman in the pretty bad Batman vs Superman). There’s something compelling about origin stories, IMO.
The last Batman movie, super originally entitled The Batman, was pretty good and had a good reception. I think a sequel is in the works…
I’ve no idea how this compares with Marvel’s sequels. I’ve seen several movies and shows, but skipped plenty as well. I think I’ve only seen bits of all the stand alone Iron Man movies, for instance.
There’s one exception. I did see Captain Marvel and Ms. Marvel, and the sequel to both, The Marvels, was rather bad.
@DK:
The playlist apparently included “YMCA”, “Nothing Compares 2 U” and “November Rain”, so there was at least some good music in there. I don’t know anyone who doesn’t love at least one of those.
So, Boeing is borrowing boatloads of money.
I can see banks loaning money even to Boeing. Loans require collateral, right? But who in their right mind would invest in Boeing’s debt bonds? Given their low rating, they’d offer a higher return, I suppose…
Boeing’s interminable problems may open the way for China’s COMAC to expand sales of its narrow body C919 beyond its borders. Right now, Boeing’s not making any 737s, and the backlog gets longer.
I can see some airlines deciding the higher operating costs and maintenance difficulties* are worth paying in order to have a plane now, rather than in 5 to ten years.
The piece linked notes that Boeing simply can’t go out of business, as it produces around half of the mainline commercial jets in the world, not to mention a lot of defense stuff for the DoD. this doesn’t mean it can’t go broke and be taken over by another aerospace company, or just some other managerial group and board (though that’s horribly complicated).
*I’m not aware of any specific maintenance issues with the C919. However, it’s not as though COMAC has trained thousands of mechanics all over the world, or that it has certified maintenance and repair organizations all over, like Boeing and Airbus do.
No idea either which parts are sourced where. This was a big issue when Interjet began to operate the SU-100. Eventually they had to cannibalize half the fleet to keep the other half flying.
@Kathy: The best concert I ever went to was probably Marc Ribot y los Cubanos Postizos, and the volume was so loud that you could feel it, and it was amazing.
Worth any hearing loss. Most of what people say is useless anyway, so a little hearing loss is a good thing.
@Gustopher:
Which circle of Hell was it held in?
@Gustopher:..Most of what people say is useless anyway,..
As I have stated more than few times when it is suggested that I get a hearing aid: “You are assuming that I want to hear what people have to say.”
@Gustopher: Hearing aids are really improving, too.
https://www.jefftiedrich.com/p/the-polls-and-the-press-want-you
About panicking over polls plus account of Oak, PA rally
@Kathy:
Boeiing can almost certainly achieve non-collateralised corporate loans.
I certainly would – taking such a bet is taking a bet that Boeing is far too strategic to US defence industry across far too many segments, plus no one is American is in a position to be aeroplanes national champion to compete with Airbus.
Being an equity holder in Boeing is rather different, the likelihood of dilution is high.
A Sr bondholder position has a potential for near term fixed return with a conversion to equity in a strategic asset.
Someone linked to the Drum article on Texas and illegal immigrants but I would recommend reading the original article at the link. I lived in Texas for a while but it was over 30 years ago. Wife lived there for about 10 years. I was shocked when I moved there that it seemed like everyone pretty openly hired “wetbacks” for everything. They were cheap and worked hard. So I have wondered how Texans would cope with the personal inconvenience of now becoming anti-immigrant.
Well, according to Texas Monthly at the link they have handled it mostly by increasing the use of illegal immigrants in areas where needed, especially construction, while publicly making very visible anti-immigrant actions. So while publicly decrying the illegals they use them more heavily than most other states. The vaunted low cost of living and low taxes are abetted by the large scale use of immigrants. Add in the costs of the rest of the country subsiding their insurance costs and it makes you begin to think the conservatives running the place might be a bit hypocritical.
Steve
https://www.texasmonthly.com/news-politics/border-crisis-texas-solutions/
@charontwo: The WP article here https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/10/15/how-big-problem-is-mental-acuity-trump/ as follow-up
I dearly hope the Democrats cleverly turn the Questions on Trump as happened to Biden – acid bath. Slivers of percentages are the game in the Swing States.
@Gustopher: “YMCA” is obviously an enduring classic. No complaints there. I deplore the way The Village People are dismissed as a cheesy gimmick. “5 O’Clock in the Morning,” “In the Navy” and especially “Go West” are all great queer-pop songs, clever and subversive. They were actually doing back then what Chappell Roan and Troye Sivan think they’re doing now.
I never cared for the other two ditties you list. My favorite Sinead O’Connor tune is her shattering protest song “Black Boys on Mopeds” which deserves a much higher profile.
“November Rain,” ugh. I love me some Axl Rose (swoon) and Guns N Roses bombast, but NR is the worst of their big hits. They tried to do their own “Stairway to Heaven” or “Bohemian Rhapsody” and they didn’t come close, imho. I can’t abide a stadium rock song that opens with airless MIDI piano — like they were composing for a Windows 3.11 floppy disk PC game. Horrid. Just play the spectacular “Sweet Child O’Mine” instead and be done.
@DK: Or play the Sherryl Crow cover of “Sweet Child O’ Mine”, which is as excellent as the original, in its own way.
Anyway, you fit in with the “everyone I know loves at least one of these”, even if I have to stretch the definitions of love and know. 😉
And, yes, “Black Boys on Mopeds” is better.
@Kathy:
It might have been the Bowery Ballroom. Not 100% sure. It’s roughly where I thought the concert was, and the photos of the inside have the same layout with the balconies.
I don’t think there is any other concert that I would have enjoyed that loud. It was a full body experience. I suspect that Beth would understand, with her fondness for raves.
A New Jersey Jew playing mostly music by Cuban composers should not have been good. Perhaps I just have no taste. That would explain a lot, actually.
The second best concert I have seen was a decidedly quieter affair, and actually as a rule of thumb the louder the concert the worse i have found it. With the exception of a truly awful Elvis Costello concert where the audio levels were entirely reasonable. Kept waiting for that show to get better, and it never did — it was a bad night even for a very inconsistent musician, but at least it wasn’t loud.
@Gustopher: Thanks for the Sheryl Crowe cover rec, will check it out. Tuesday Night Music Club is one of my top albums ever, love her.
@steve: Yep. Pretty sure the large number of landscaping crews mowing, raking, weed eating all the yards in my neighborhood are illegal. As are the housecleaners and home health aides. There are also a lot of quite talented home renovation workers. No one seems to ask the politicians if they are in favor of arresting or fining the small business owners who hire the illegal workers.
“Cartoon“
Movie on psychology of Trumpism:
https://x.com/OurShallowState/status/1846309519611367727
https://x.com/OurShallowState/status/1846309486778372603
https://x.com/OurShallowState/status/1846309505891815561
@DK: Totally tangential but, here in Texas, Sweet Child of Mine is a favorite of the high school marching bands and often played during the half time at the Friday night football games.
@Lounsbury: I’d have to ask the guy who manages my portfolio, but short term, I’m in the “to good to be true” view.
Assuming Boeing is thinking of issuing bonds to begin with…
ETA: And that I’m even in the class of investors who would be able to buy a lot-order of bonds to begin with.
@DK: The video makes an interesting cognitive dissonance in that it shows the vocalist playing what appears to be a 6 or 8 ft. grand piano while the track is obviously a Midi. Beyond that though, neither the song nor the video held my interest for longer that a minute. 90 seconds tops. A relentlessly ordinary ballad at best. 🙁
@Scott: Years ago on a news special on immigration, Carlos Santana was recorded saying that if Mexicans (his exact term) were to decide that they would never bus a dish or change a hotel bed ever again, Los Angeles would have to close. I suspect that Tejas is in a similar boat, except with a slightly different cast of characters.
@Scott: Which instrument family does the Slash’s solo at the opening? I’ve never been at a school that added that song to its pep band folio. (But I’ve only worked one highschool band regularly since returning from Korea.)
@just nutha: I think it was flute, clarinet and xylophone.
@Not the IT Dept.:
I hate to break it to America, but this already exists. Google “PACE and LIFE programs.”
The problem is not that Medicare doesn’t cover those services; it’s a shortage of qualified providers. There are only about 300 PACE locations in the US currently — not nearly enough to serve all of the elderly who qualify.
ETA — I see that others have also noted that these programs exist, and that costs are an issue.
@Scott: That’d work, yeah.
ETA: I’d guess that it’d be metalophone, though. Xylos don’t usually march.