Tuesday’s Forum

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FILED UNDER: Open Forum
Steven L. Taylor
About Steven L. Taylor
Steven L. Taylor is a Professor Emeritus of Political Science and former College of Arts and Sciences Dean. His main areas of expertise include parties, elections, and the institutional design of democracies. His most recent book is the co-authored A Different Democracy: American Government in a 31-Country Perspective. He earned his Ph.D. from the University of Texas and his BA from the University of California, Irvine. He has been blogging since 2003 (originally at the now defunct Poliblog). Follow Steven on Twitter and/or BlueSky.

Comments

  1. Kurtz says:

    From Janelle Monáe’s debut EP, Metropolis: The Chase Suite.

    Sincerely, Jane

    Feels relevant to the times. I guess, maybe it’s the chorus:

    (While their dreams go down the drain now)
    Are we really living, or just walking dead now?
    (Are we walking dead now?)
    Or dreaming of a hope riding the wings of angels?
    The way we live, the way we die
    What a tragedy, I’m so terrified
    Daydreamers please wake up
    We can’t sleep no more

    Or perhaps I feel that way because the EP was inspired by Fritz Lang’s Metropolis.

    2
  2. Scott says:

    I can get behind both actions: declaring the cartels terrorist organizations and Mexico suing US gunmakers as accomplices.

    Mexico threatens to escalate US gunmakers lawsuit with terror charges

    Mexico’s president has warned US gunmakers they could face fresh legal action as accomplices of organized crime if Washington designates the country’s cartels as terrorist groups.

    The Latin American country, which is under mounting pressure from Donald Trump to curb illegal drug smuggling, wants its neighbor to crack down on firearms trafficking in the other direction.

    “If they declare these criminal groups as terrorists, then we’ll have to expand our US lawsuit,” Mexico’s president, Claudia Sheinbaum, said at a daily press conference.

    A new charge could include alleged complicity of gunmakers with terror groups, she said.

    11
  3. Scott says:

    I’m all for this:

    Texas Legislature expected to vote on statewide cellphone ban at public schools

    While many school districts in Texas already have policies that limit or ban the use of cellphones in the classroom, there’s now a push for a statewide ban.

    Texas House Bill 515 would require students who bring cellphones and other personal electronic devices to lock them in a secure case, pouch or bag provided by the district during regular school hours.

    And on a related subject, I was not aware this had been filed:

    Northside ISD joins lawsuit that alleges social media platforms ‘rewired’ students’ minds, behavior

    Northside ISD has joined a class action lawsuit against Meta, ByteDance and other social media companies.

    Trustees voted last Tuesday to work with three law firms to join the suit, which alleges that school districts have suffered damages because of youth social media addiction.

    The suit claimed that social media platforms “rewired how adolescents think, learn, feel and behave,” and that school districts have been left to address the mental health challenges caused by those platforms.

    The law firms are working on a contingency basis, which means their fees will be taken out of any monetary damages Northside receives from the social media companies.

    Hundreds of other school districts across the country are also parties in the lawsuit.

    Here’s the link to the suit itself:

    SOCIAL MEDIA ADOLESCENT ADDICTION/PERSONAL INJURY PRODUCTS LIABILITY LITIGATION

    3
  4. Sleeping Dog says:

    Eventually, the felons purging of the bureaucracy will stall out and it will be apparent that some level of government is needed to provide the services and structure that individuals and businesses need to thrive. At that point, which will be in a matter of months, the administration will go on a hiring spree and fill those currently vacant positions filled those who have not completed their probationary period. Those new hires will be vetted for loyalty to the felon and MAGA.

    6
  5. Beth says:

    @Scott:

    Of course they want to ban phones in schools. That way the kids can’t take videos of the cops failing to save them when some butthole come to blow their brains out.

    Seriously though, the absolute refusal to deal with guns is insane. Maybe this is a good policy, but I don’t trust the school to keep my kid safe. I want him to be able to contact me.

    In a similar, darkly amusing vein, we were chatting with a realtor* about where we’re thinking about living in London. We are seriously considering Hackney. The realtor was like: “ooh general crime!” And “oh no knife crime” and I bust out laughing. I’m from the Southside; 1. I’ve been hearing “ooh general crime!” my whole life. It’s overrated and 2. I realize that knife crime is bad. But holy shit I’ll take knife crime over the possibility I’ll be randomly shot.

    *yes I know they aren’t called Realtors cause that’s some trademark bullshit. But still…

    7
  6. Beth says:

    @Sleeping Dog:

    That’s assuming that they can think like that. They are clearly fanatics who don’t understand reality. I don’t think we will get that far.

    Krugman had a point today that Regan was both anti-science and bolstered the cult of “the government is the problem”. I think for a lot of people on the right that’s take as absolute divine truth. So, I’m pretty sure the solution of government service collapse won’t be: hire MAGA! It’ll be: cut more until the patient recovers. This is going to be rule by people who think Supply Side Economics really works in reality.

    5
  7. Sleeping Dog says:

    @Beth:

    Vought, Miller, Vance and any number of others are smart enough to have plotted this through.

    1
  8. JKB says:

    Frank Lutz reports that Clinton voters that flipped for Trump in 2024 “love” how fast he’s moving.

    3
  9. Scott says:

    Trump administration fires thousands for ‘performance’ without evidence, in messy rush

    Probationary workers were getting the ax for poor job performance. But many of those fired had just received positive reviews

    Quick labor law question: I know probationary workers have little protections but can an employer basically defame a worker in order to fire them? Why say anything at all? If I got a great review and then get axed for “poor performance”, I would be tempted to sue whoever signed that letter just to make their life miserable.

    5
  10. Charley in Cleveland says:

    @JKB: It’s Luntz, not Lutz, and he is still trying to shake his well earned and much deserved rep as a “Republican strategist.” It was Frank who coined the term “illegal immigrant,” after one of his infamous focus group sessions, so it is not surprising that he now wants people to believe that Clinton voters, writ large, miraculously love what Trump (actually Musk) is doing. Frank is trying to remain relevant.

    9
  11. Kathy says:

    @Beth:
    @Sleeping Dog:

    I don’t know which is worst. Gutting the government, or replacing all the personnel with loyalists.

    Either way, I don’t see the nazi in chief allowing free midterm elections, if there are any at all.

    5
  12. Kathy says:

    @Beth:

    I think you’re supposed to engage in an overactive imaginary overdrive to make knife crime sound much, much, much worse not only than gun crime but than gun massacres. Like how the Vegas shooter would have killed twice as many people if he’d used knives.

    1
  13. Paul L. says:

    Free Luigi Mangione being overcharged for first-degree murder and state terror.
    Uses the Nazi funding site GiveSendGo instead of the approved GoFundMe that will turn over to the government any money raised by unapproved extremist groups.

  14. just nutha says:

    @JKB: He’s polling a large enough sample that “Clinton voters that flipped for Trump in 2024” is a legitimate subgroup? WA! That sample must be yuuuge!

    6
  15. Winecoff46 says:

    @JKB: ” . . . Clinton voters that flipped for Trump in 2024 “love” how fast he’s moving.”

    Not just Clinton (presumably Hillary) voters, but Biden voters, too, according to Luntz’s tweet. Because the latter election (2020) is more recent, I think it is more relevant to what Democrats should be paying attention to. Which Luntz suggests is the voters’ perception that, for all the talk, setting up of committees, introducing legislation, and even passing laws, Biden and the Democrats didn’t actually DO enough (or anything?) to take care of the voters’ concerns. Whether that perception is factually accurate is subject to debate, the perception itself, if correct, is still a problem, IMO.

    2
  16. Rob1 says:

    @Scott:

    The suit claimed that social media platforms “rewired how adolescents think, learn, feel and behave,”

    Been thinking of a similar class-action suit against Fox News and Sinclair Broadcast Group for rewiring America’s minds against reason and moderation, with wholly destructive outcomes.

    9
  17. Rob1 says:

    @JKB:

    Frank Lutz reports that Clinton voters that flipped for Trump in 2024 “love” how fast he’s moving.

    Once a shameless shill always a shameless shill.

    5
  18. Rob1 says:

    @Charley in Cleveland:

    It’s Luntz, not Lutz

    Lutz rhymes better with putz.

    4
  19. becca says:

    @Charley in Cleveland: Luntz is the go-to guy for framing and promoting intentionally divisive issues for right wing propagandists. We owe a lot of transgender hate to this pos.

    Also, Luntz has become stinking rich doing it. Hate bought him a PJ.

    7
  20. Paul L. says:

    @Beth:

    Of course they want to ban phones in schools. That way the kids can’t take videos of the cops failing to save them when some butthole come to blow their brains out.

    I remember the heroes of Parkland screaming at students to turn off their phones.
    And good for @Kathy: using the UK government talking points about the Southport “1-click” murders were caused by Amazon.

    Free Speech is being Weaponized like when it caused the Holocaust!!!!

  21. just nutha says:

    @Charley in Cleveland: We can’t be sure it isn’t isn’t Frank Lutz. He’s got a poll where “Clinton voters who flipped for Trump” (Hillary or 1992 Bill, BTW?). are a significant-sized enough group to make a separate tabulation point. (Again, how large a sample will it take to make that sub tab a statistically significant cohort?)

    1
  22. al Ameda says:

    @JKB:

    Frank Lutz reports that Clinton voters that flipped for Trump in 2024 “love” how fast he’s moving.

    In related news, chickens who voted for Popeye’s that flipped for Colonel Sanders “love” how fast he’s moving.

    To be honest, I do feel a bit guilty for experiencing feelings of schadenfreude.

    6
  23. Paul L. says:

    @becca:
    Luntz pushs the narrative that 95% (100% of Democrats) want and support complete gun registration and confiscation.

  24. Ol' Nat says:

    Any word on Kevin Drum? He hasn’t posted since Saturday? )-:

    1
  25. Stormy Dragon says:

    @Scott:

    Since the dismissal notice is only given to the employee in question, I don’t think it meets the legal definition of defamation.

    I can’t defame you by saying things to you, only by saying them to a third party

    1
  26. Scott says:

    @Stormy Dragon: I knew there would be loophole.

  27. Jay L Gischer says:

    Guys, I realize this is bad news, but it also is factual, and it explains some things: https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/favorability/donald-trump/

    Trump has gained in favorability since taking office. More people like what he’s doing (or what they think he’s doing) than approved of him before. This is the highest approval he’s ever had.

    Lord, what a world.

    5
  28. Jen says:

    @Jay L Gischer: Huh. That runs counter to a YouGov poll I just saw that says his approval rating and personal popularity are both falling.

    6
  29. Lucysfootball says:

    I know this won’t make much of a difference, but it is nice to see judges not just rolling over:

    Embattled New York City Mayor Eric Adams has been ordered to appear Wednesday before a federal judge in Manhattan with Department of Justice officials to address the federal government’s motion to dismiss his criminal charges.
    U.S. District Judge Dale Ho, who is overseeing Adams’ federal corruption case, said in an order Tuesday that he has not received Adams’ written consent to the dismissal and that a court, in considering such a request, “must have sufficient factual information supporting the recommendation.”

    3
  30. CSK says:

    @Jay L Gischer:

    I remember when he was bragging about his 36% favorable rating back in his first term: “Almost 40%!”

    Not quite, Donald.

    1
  31. Lucysfootball says:

    @Jay L Gischer: I think a lot of people in this country are fine with pain for other people. There is a reason that Trump got so many votes this time. They like a bully, so long as they aren’t the ones being bullied.

    5
  32. Jay L Gischer says:

    @Jen: I just saw a CBS poll that show Trump with positive approval. Lots of pluses for things like “energetic” and so on.

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-approval-opinion-poll-2025-2-9/

    I normally don’t think of CBS news as a shill for right-wing propaganda, but I may be out of date.

  33. Jay L Gischer says:

    All I can think of is how people think of foreign aid as “half” the federal budget.

    5
  34. Jay L Gischer says:

    @Stormy Dragon: Well, it may not qualify as defamatory, but it is obvious bad faith. I don’t know how this would play out in other states, but in CA that’s enought to assume a judgement against the firing party.

    The depressing part is that I don’t think Trump cares if he loses a lawsuit later. It won’t be his money that gets paid to the plaintiff. Meanwhile, he is taking “action”.

    Yeah, that’s depressing as hell. Gotta keep my head in the game…

    2
  35. Rob1 says:

    @Sleeping Dog:

    Eventually, the felons purging of the bureaucracy will stall out and it will be apparent that some level of government is needed to provide the services and structure that individuals and businesses need to thrive

    I’m interested to see how they spin that to blame the Democrats and liberals.

    2
  36. Jen says:

    @Jay L Gischer: Yes, that’s likely a good chunk of any positives, along with not understanding Congress’s role in spending and a simplistic view of foreign policy. So, they see stripping away USAID and it falls under “well, we should be using that money here at home,” not realizing that foreign aid is ~<1% of the budget (not 30%-50% as is commonly reported in polling responses), not realizing that the President doesn't have the power of the purse, and not realizing that helping out when famine or disasters hit is a cheaper way to build trust in far-flung corners.

    Democrats need to recognize that the public, by and large, are pretty self-centered. It will take direct, personal pain for them to realize what a mess this all is. Right now, all they are seeing is someone "doing something."

    3
  37. Rob1 says:

    @Scott:

    I’m all for this:

    Texas Legislature expected to vote on statewide cellphone ban at public schools

    But, is there any evidence that cellphone access in schools has helped in any mass shooting or other acts of violence? It may be a wash, given that cellphones are catalyst for other violence.

  38. Rob1 says:

    @Jen:
    @Jay L Gischer:

    Battle of the narratives. Define the reality you wish to see. Same as it ever was.

    Fairytales can come true
    They can happen to you
    If you’re y̶o̶u̶n̶g̶ a̶t̶ h̶e̶a̶r̶t̶
    cunning and shameless

  39. Rob1 says:

    @Lucysfootball:

    I know this won’t make much of a difference, but it is nice to see judges not just rolling over:

    Been anticipating a strategy roll out by MAGA to muzzle the non-compliant judges in a big way.

    1
  40. ptfe says:

    @Scott: Personal experience with these pouches: Daughter says they’re worthless, worse than just having strict rules about keeping your phones off and in your bag.

    (1) Pouches are fragile. Breaking them costs money. You have now issued a pouch to everyone, including people who can’t afford to pay for them.
    (2) Pouches do not stop signal. Phones ring in the pouches. Dings etc. You can’t turn them off, because…they’re in a g-d pouch.
    (3) Kids who ignore the pouches use their phones. Teachers have to enforce the “no phones” rule. There are now 2 enforcement levels, and a single rule actually covers both of them.
    (4) In emergencies, kids can’t use their phones.
    (5) The “keys” to the phone are entirely in the building. That is, you have to use a kiosk to remove the pouch. Exiting the school takes longer as a result. (You can, of course, buy a personal removal device, in which case see (3).)

    Anyway, we were happy with the elementary school having a zero-tolerance policy for phones out during the school day. The high school uses a back-of-the-door hanger that students are told to put their phones in. Phones may ring or ding, but it’s also something the teacher or students can stop if it’s a problem. Teachers can enforce “if it’s out and I see it, it will go in the hanger”, with multiple offenses leading to larger consequences (loss of phone, calls to parents, etc). This solution seems to be as good as or better than the pouches, and it’s like $5 for a whole classroom instead of $20-$30 per pouch plus the fixed equipment.

    6
  41. Paul L. says:

    @ptfe:
    Schools ban chewing gum.

  42. Kathy says:

    @Jay L Gischer:

    Well, CBS is settling a ridiculous lawsuit they should win in any remotely reasonable proceeding. They may be buttering up the rapist to keep him happy.

    3
  43. Scott says:

    @Kathy: Shareholder opportunity to accuse management of malfeasance?

    1
  44. DK says:

    @Rob1: Poll fetishization is always kinda silly. Polling averages about a presidency that’s just a month old can’t say much, given the time it takes to complete and publish surveys.

    This is from Vox analysis this morning, of Trump’s polls and popularity:

    “…his overall popularity has remained steady — historically high for him even if historically unpopular compared to other modern presidents, according to Gallup polling. He still holds a positive net approval rating — something he only achieved for two weeks at the start of his first term, per FiveThirtyEight’s averages.

    That measure has hovered at around 50 percent approval, a higher share of support than he ever had eight years ago. The margin has shrunk a bit since he took office, but it still sits at +3.3 points.

    His personal favorability, another measure of how Americans feel about the president, is similarly more positive than it’s been since he left office in 2021. Roughly even shares of Americans think of him positively or negatively…

    Voters wanted change from the status quo in 2024, and Trump was seen as the change candidate. But he’s still far more unpopular than other presidents were at this point in their term, including Biden,” Evangel Penumaka, Data for Progress’s polling principal and research director, told me.

    Vox included a chart comparing honeymoon period polling averages for past presidents, showing Trump’s current numbers are lower than every previous presidency except his first one.

    So if one is prone to start breathlessly hyperventilating about the 538 average already (again, silly), Trump might be described as popular compared to his own low standard and the lows reached by some outgoing presidents: Nixon, Carter, Bush, Biden.

    Compared to other presidents during their honeymoon, Trump’s numbers are historically low.

    Compared to a month ago, Trump has lost a step in the 538 average, but just barely. Trump’s net favorability there was +3.3 before Vox hit publish earlier today, it’s at +1.4 as I type. It’s going to be slightly higher or lower when someone reads this later. Which is why trying to divine meaning from statistical noise is silly.

    6
  45. ptfe says:

    @Paul L.: You probably think you’re making a point here, but I suspect you actually aren’t.

    1
  46. Eusebio says:

    @Stormy Dragon: So maybe not defamation, but there should be repercussions for intentionally falsifying an employment record. Prospective employers routinely ask for information about previous jobs (especially the most recent one), including reason for leaving, and whether or not the previous employer can be contacted. If a termination notice citing poor performance emerges during that process for an employee who had actually received all positive performance reviews, then someone has made consequential false statements about that person to a third party.

    2
  47. CSK says:

    Jim Jones, head of the food division of the FDA, has resigned.

  48. Jen says:

    @CSK: As has Denise Cheung, the federal prosecutor who oversaw criminal cases in DC. In her letter, she states she was asked to improperly launch a criminal probe into a government contract that was awarded during the Biden administration.

    This administration is full of angry, bitter, people who are a-okay with violating laws to exact revenge.

    3
  49. Jay L Gischer says:

    @DK: I started reading/participating in political blogs under the George W. Bush presidency. As such, I am so well aware of the dramatic swings of approval that a presidency can experience. I know which way I want it to go, and think it will go. I also know that previous predictions of mine have proven to be quite badly off.

    In any case, this isn’t good news as far as I’m concerned.

    What you are saying is good for keeping the depression at bay.

    My own lifelong experience of depression is that I’m at the campfire (of hope) and depression is a shadow in the darkness, show only its menacing eyes, reflicting the fire. Once in a while, it takes a run at me, and I eventually beat it back. At which point it goes back to stalking me.

    2
  50. Slugger says:

    I read that a bill to regulate the teaching of history in state universities in Ohio has been introduced in the state legislature. The bill wants to eliminate DEI approaches. I wonder how they will discuss Jesse Owens who was raised in Cleveland and attended tOSU. I read a biography of Owens a long time ago, and one thing from that book that has stuck with me is that he said that shopkeepers and waiters in Berlin treated him with applause and admiration because they saw him as a great champion while he was treated with suspicion in Cleveland because he was perceived as a black guy. “Hitler didn’t snub me, Roosevelt snubbed me.”

    4
  51. just nutha says:

    @Rob1: Having been through 5 or 6 cellphone policies in two districts over the years since I returned from Korea (where I participated in a few more), I can state with confidence that whatever policy Texas decides on will be almost entirely dependent on student support.

    I finally settled on “make sure your phone isn’t keeping you from getting your work done”* and having students put their phones either face down on their desks or in their backpacks (the preference of both students and teacher from what I observed) during tests and quizzes.

    *Modern education theory has started positing that allowing pubescent children to control their own destinies by making their own decisions where circumstances allow is beneficial to their development.

    4
  52. just nutha says:

    @ptfe: The alternative high school I went to sometimes did pouches for a year. Small staff, so each teacher had a “key.”

    The second year, the school kept a dozen or so pouches for students who liked that the pouch helped them stay on task (there a few of “those kids” in alt school). By year 3, those kids had graduated, and the pouches disappeared.

  53. just nutha says:

    @ptfe: I can’t imagine that he still does after all this time, but who knows?

  54. Beth says:

    Two questions I’ll throw out to the crowd:

    First, does anyone have any experience with Google Voice or something similar? I need to keep my US based phone number because it’s also my business number. Stupid ass Google doesn’t have a phone number to call and ask questions.

    Second, I am seriously considering going back to school and I’m thinking of adding an economics degree based solely on the fact that I am a masochist. Does anyone have any suggestions on mid-tier universities I should look at? This is mostly credentialism and me sticking it to people (solely in my mind). I’m not going to get into exclusive or top tier schools and I’m not going to bother with that. I’m looking for a workhorse type school.

    2
  55. Fortune says:

    @Slugger: What do they currently teach about Jesse Owens in college history classes?

  56. CSK says:

    @Beth:

    In the U.S. or U.K.?

    1
  57. Beth says:

    @CSK:

    For the phone, U.S. Number, but I’ll be physically present in the U.K. Ring Central looks like a contender because they actually allow you to call a sales number. I can’t believe this is a controversial feature.

    For the School, in the UK, preferably in or near London. This is still kinda in the fantasy stage, but moving rapidly into, “well, I guess I’m doing this..” stage.

  58. gVOR10 says:

    I just visited Volokh. Revisiting a discussion here a day or two ago, Volokh has no voting. At, say, Marginal Revolution or here, voting gives an occasional visitor an idea who is respected by their commentariat and who’s regarded by them as a nut or troll. Volokh draws a large number of commenters and if you’re trying to get a sense of that community’s beliefs it’s difficult to know what to take seriously.

    2
  59. Grumpy realist says:

    @Beth: in the U.K. I take it? Several of my friends went to the London School of Economics but now after Brexit I have no idea how the place is surviving or which way they now tilt. I’d suggest looking at universities near where you’re living as the first possibility. What area of economics are you interested in? Another possibility if you want to carve your own path is through the Open University. Requires a lot of planning and self-study, but the gods know you have the chops for it.

    (Unfortunately my knowledge of U.K. programs is limited to the University of London and obscure classics programs. Unless you want a degree in Medieval or Roman law?)

  60. CSK says:

    @Beth:

    The University of London would probably be the most convenient for you. They also offer an online BSc in economics, if that would work.

  61. Jen says:

    Random question–I’ve kind of ignored RFK’s stance on antidepressants because I figured that as widely used as they are, there is no way either patients or pharmaceutical companies allow for them to be discontinued. I have a family member who absolutely needs to be on these–she stopped a few years ago under a doctor’s supervision just to gauge where she is and they both decided she should go back on them. Medical types: is there any chance RFK could, say, withdraw FDA approval of an entire class of drugs?

  62. CSK says:
  63. Jen says:

    @CSK: Yes–that’s the reason I’m asking. Does he have any real authority to *do* anything though? The article doesn’t get into that level of detail/information.

  64. Sleeping Dog says:

    @Beth:

    You can either forward an existing number to google voice or have it as a primary number. You can configure it in several ways, typically if you may take the call, GV will ask the caller for their name and then call you at whatever phone numbers that you’ve programed. If you don’t answer, it offers to take a message and sends the message to you as an email.

    1
  65. Beth says:

    @Grumpy realist:

    What area? Honestly no idea. I have a semi-serious thought to something that would combine Economics and Aesthetics. So, maybe something in that direction. Like I said, this is still fantasy, but moving towards a reality. Lol, that’s probably the first reality check to go through.

    @Jen:

    My partner and son would both rapidly become non-functional if SSRIs get taken away. Like, I can’t tell you how rage inducing this is.

    1
  66. Daryl says:

    I’ve been looking for DOGE fact checks, and there isn’t a lot new since SLT’s Sunday post.
    I did find this debunking Elmo’s ludicrous Social Security claims.
    https://www.wired.com/story/elon-musk-doge-social-security-150-year-old-benefits/

    1
  67. CSK says:

    @Jen:

    Donald Trump instructed Kennedy to look into the “threat” posed to children by SSRIs.

  68. Jen says:

    @Beth: For me, it’s my sibling. I’m pretty terrified to think about what will happen to her, it’s clear she needs this medication.

    1
  69. Rob1 says:
  70. Kathy says:

    @Beth:
    @CSK:
    @Jen:

    It maye come down to how many people in the rapist’s circle who depend on anti-depressants talk to him and when.

    1
  71. Rob1 says:

    @DK: Yep. It’s the crowd “noise” that comes after a poll’s publishing that carries the real story.

  72. CSK says:

    @Kathy:

    Would they be willing to admit it, though? Rock and a hard place.

  73. Liberal Capitalist says:

    @Scott:

    Just listend to an NPR story where employees were fired as probationary, even though they were no longer in their first year probationary status… and had email to show their probationary status was completed.

    It’s just a shitshow.

    2
  74. gVOR10 says:

    @Rob1: Indeed. I note that almost all the stories I see, MSM and online, are “Trump polling improves” or “Trump over 50%”. Only once or twice have I seen it mentioned that his polling is near an all time low for all presidents at this point in their term, a low only exceeded by himself.

    Someone yesterday headed a post with a still from “Casablanca” of Captain Renault looking at the label of the bottle of Vichy water he’s about to throw away. There is a delicate aroma of Quisling in the air.

    5
  75. wr says:

    @Fortune: “What do they currently teach about Jesse Owens in college history classes?”

    Hey, guess what, little truth seeker — I cut and pasted your question into Google and immediately got back a long answer that would have given you exactly the information you needed to discuss the point that Slugger was making!

    Of course, if you did that you’d actually have to express an opinion or a thought instead of just wasting everybody’s time by pretending to engage in conversation.

    7
  76. CSK says:

    The JFK Library in Boston has been shut by executive order.

    WTF??????

    1
  77. Fortune says:

    @wr: Did you think about the answer though, and what it means in light of the original question?

  78. Kathy says:

    New video of the Toronto crash, showing the airplane touch down heard, burst into flames, and flip.

    Watching it that way one wonders how no one died. It also clears up why initial videos and photos showed firefighters spraying foam and water on the plane.

    1
  79. Bobert says:

    @Charley in Cleveland: I would not doubt that a majority of voters are pleased with the activity level of the Trump administration,
    Given the snail’s pace of activity in Washington, it is refreshing to imagine that something can be done at lightspeed. However what these poll respondents are not understanding/reacting to is what the effect of these actions will be.
    Acquaintances are pleased that cutting foreign aid is preserving the “hard earned” dollars. On the other hand when you can show them that they have only “preserved” about 90 cents of their average 10K federal tax responsibility.
    When I ask acquaintances if they would be willing to contribute 90 cents a year to worldwide humanitarian relief , they sure , no problem.
    Can you say “box of rocks”?

    5
  80. wr says:

    @Fortune: “Did you think about the answer though, and what it means in light of the original question?”

    With all due respect to the hosts of this site and a sincere apology to them in advance for violating the comity they value:

    Fuck off, troll.

    3
  81. Fortune says:

    @wr: OK, good effort, but you just saw this…it’s a university, and…

  82. Eusebio says:

    @CSK: WRT to the JFK library in Boston being closed due to federal job cuts, from CBS News

    The library’s website says it receives “an annual federal appropriation for building maintenance and a portion of its personnel costs” from Congress, but the majority of its budget is generated by admission fees and donations.

    I don’t suppose this fact was taken into consideration.

  83. CSK says:

    @Eusebio:

    How many others will be shuttered?

  84. JohnSF says:

    Well, the European summit did not produce a unified line.
    Scholz continues to pander to the section of the German electorate who want to hit the snooze button on the alarm and go back to sleep.
    Poland does not think it can safely divert forces away from its frontiers and the Baltics.
    Spain, Portugal, and Italy say “who, us?”
    And Greece is focused, as ever, on it’s “ally” Turkey.

    Dammit.
    It’s going to fall to the UK and France, and UK land power has been gnawed away at for decades by Conservative insouciance, Treasury cheese-paring, the “special forces” lobby, and absurdly costly procurement projects.

    1
  85. Gustopher says:

    Presidential spokesmodel Donald J Trump, and First Buddy Elon(gated) Musk(rat) will be appearing for a joint interview on Hannity.

    I’m a little surprised that Trump is willing to share the spotlight so much, as although he hates work, he does love spotlights. There’s no word on whether Musk(rat) will be bringing an abstractly named small child to shush Trump should he talk too much.

    1
  86. Gustopher says:

    By the way, has everyone heard Penelope Scott’s song Rät?

    https://youtu.be/LpxT9TLGoLI

    It’s a fun little song about musk, from 4-5 years ago, I think. It’s a bit outdated, and a bit prophetic.

  87. Mimai says:

    @Jen:
    I think this is highly unlikely, even considering all the other (unprecedented) stuff that’s been going on. To be sure, it’s not 0% unlikely. I just don’t think it warrants energy. For now.

  88. Kathy says:

    Thinking about the felon and the nazi in chief, I was reminded of a passage from The Fountainhead. The speaker is Ellsworth Toohey, addressing Peter Keating:

    “Don’t raze the shrines -you’ll frighten men. Enshrine mediocrity, and the shrines are razed!”

  89. JohnSF says:

    And thus speaketh President Trump on Ukraine:

    “Today I heard: “Oh we haven’t been invited”. Well, you’ve been there for three years. You should have ended it. You should never have started it. You could have made a deal. I could have made a deal for Ukraine… ”

    It’s enough to make you puke.
    I am really beginning to seriously dislike this man.

    6
  90. Jen says:

    @JohnSF:

    “Beginning”?

    He really is a piece of…work.

    @Mimai:

    Thank you. My logical brain agrees, but my “what if” brain is not always on board.

    1
  91. JohnSF says:

    @Jen:
    Beginning indeed.
    Previously my animosity was rather muted.
    And in respect of his rather adverse effect on the US, rather than on others.
    Now his malignancy is going global, and affecting the vital interests of my country.
    He is beginning to task me.
    And others more powerful than I.

    2
  92. Beth says:

    @Mimai:

    I don’t know about how complacent we should be about these kinds of things. I kinda agree with you that it’s not hair on fire yet; but I don’t think we can be safe with that. That’s one of the major problems with a lot of this garbage. Is the chance 1% is it 80% is it 90% but RFK wants to make us think its 1%?

    I would honestly put the chances as:

    Birth Control 100% .
    Actual Abortion meds 100%
    HRT for Trans People 100%
    Antidepressants 60%
    SSRIs 80%
    Stimulant Meds 80%

    I’ve started suspecting that they are waiting for Patel to get confirmed and then it’s off to the races on the worst of the stuff they want to do. For grins I went and looked to see if there was anything in Project 2025 about SSRIs, didn’t see anything.

    The other thing is, being stuck under the Sword of Damocles is absolutely fucking awful. I get to wake up every morning and wonder if today is the day that my access to life saving medication is going to get cut off. Cis people can get all the HRT your little hearts desire. Even testosterone is easy enough to get these days. But because I’m not cis, fuck me right?

    I can see a scenario where my partner and son can’t leave their rooms because their anxiety is too high to control. I won’t care because between the ADHD, Depression, PTSD and Dysphoria, I’d be useless. My daughter will rapidly start failing as her ADHD is noticeable to us, but she’s pleasant enough to skate for a couple more years before she starts really falling behind.

    I know exactly what I’ll be like without my meds; absolutely useless. I mean, I guess it’ll be a slight benefit that I won’t care. But I also won’t care when I kill myself. Also, you ever see a 10 year old absolutely melt down because their anxiety won’t let them get on an escalator? It’s not pleasant.

    None of this should be construed as yelling at you. Like, I think your argument has a lot of merit. But one of the problems we have now is that the distribution of problems caused by Trump, the GOP (all of it, top to bottom, quislings and cowards), and MAGA, is not anywhere even. Like, yeah, the Constitutional crisis is awful, but I don’t know if my passport is going to get taken away when I leave? Are my meds going to get cut off? Are my kids going to get sick because of the anti-vax stuff? On the other hand, I don’t have to worry about losing my government job? Like, how do we build enough solidarity before the shit hits the fan?

    1
  93. Beth says:

    @JohnSF:

    And you’re about to get 4 refugees. I mean, you’re likely to get more. The only real differences are title and I, vaguely, know where Peterborough is on a map.

    I figure (I hope) the Peterborough connection saves me a least a tiny bit of hassle. “Yes, yes, no, no, no*, the old man left Peterborough cause he was a vagabond. I am returning to London as a proper person (or someshit).”

    *I had a distant relation there that would answer every question with “Yes, Yes, no, no, no.” about half the time it was “Yes, Yes, No, No, No, Bank Holiday”. That was also the trip that made me realize Idiot Father tried very hard to raise me to be a proper English boy, but he hated everything about England so much that he couldn’t see that he wasn’t any good at it and had actually failed that task. Several different ways.

    1
  94. Rob1 says:

    @CSK:

    The JFK Library in Boston has been shut by executive order.

    WTF???

    Holy crap!

    And people want to make a case for Trump supporters deserving to be heard??? They don’t want to be heard, they want their animus to be felt .

    JFK Library in Boston to reopen after library said Trump ‘executive order’ caused sudden closure

    An employee described an emotional meeting that was held just before the building was closed. They said several people left the meeting in tears and that up to nine members of the staff were laid off.

    “Donald Trump and Elon Musk’s thoughtless crusade has caused an iconic institution and economic driver to close in Massachusetts,” Gov. Maura Healey said in a statement.

    “The JFK Library plays an essential role in our state and nation’s history, our travel and tourism sector, and our economy. We hope that this closure will be temporary and urge President Trump and DOGE to reverse course so that the library can reopen to continue educating visitors and contributing to our economy.”

    https://www.wcvb.com/article/jfk-library-boston-closed-trump-executive-order/63832670

    And THAT’S for jacking with our Confederate statues!

    Just be prepared, there is no bottom to any of this.

    3
  95. Rob1 says:

    @wr: In the “economy” of these “war of words” generated by the ongoing exchanges, Fortune is expending anywhere from 1/2 to maybe 1/10 the effort depending on how many respond and to what length. That’s some kind of asymmetrical warfare going on.

    3
  96. DrDaveT says:

    @Sleeping Dog:

    At that point, which will be in a matter of months, the administration will go on a hiring spree and fill those currently vacant positions

    Except… hiring people is much harder, and much more labor-intensive, than firing them. I have watched federal agencies flounder in a catch-22 cycle of not having enough HR people to hire anyone, even under “normal” administrations. There is simply no way to staff up quickly in an eviscerated federal bureaucracy, even if you ignore the rules.

    5
  97. wr says:

    @Rob1: “In the “economy” of these “war of words” generated by the ongoing exchanges, Fortune is expending anywhere from 1/2 to maybe 1/10 the effort depending on how many respond and to what length.”

    Yup. That’s the reason for my final, three word response to the troll. All these really well-intentioned people keep spending their time trying to draw him into a real discussion — and yes, even I did at one point a week or so ago — and he’s just sitting back and laughing at the suckers.

    There are really terrible things happening in this country right now. I don’t have the time or energy for some pathetic loser whose only goal in life is to make other people’s existence a little bit shittier.

    4
  98. Mimai says:

    @Beth:

    Wow, those are very high probabilities. This must be a truly difficult time to live through. Please continue on though – people care about you.

    Although my probabilities are lower than yours, I do not advocate for complacency. Not at all. Rather, I invite people to take a good hard look at where they are prioritizing their energies, and to calibrate according to their situations.

    Just be sure that you are doing the calibrating – don’t allow others to do it for you (don’t give them that power).

    PS, I have indeed witnessed all kinds of melting down—and solidifying back up. And melting down again. And solidifying back up again. I suspect you’re familiar with this. I hope you and your family are able to find more of the solid state as you move forward.

    PPS, I didn’t take your comment as yelling at me, because: a) I tend to not jump to such interpretations, and b) I’ve read your yelling, you are quite gifted at it, and very apparent when you are doing it 😉

    2
  99. Jax says:

    I vote we just ignore Fortune from now on. And Paul. And Connor/Jack/Drew/Guarneri or whatever his current “identification” is. Also, Mbunge. They’ll go away without engagement.

    Now, if Superdestroyer shows back up, it’s all hands on deck. 😉

    4
  100. Gustopher says:

    @Beth:

    But I also won’t care when I kill myself.

    I mean this in the best of all possible ways — if you are at the top of your own kill list, you are seriously lacking in imagination and ambition.

    I’m not advocating anything, mind you, but what was it people always claim Gandhi said? “Be the change you want to see in the world.”

    (Also, refill prescriptions as soon as insurance allows, and maybe even “lose” a bottle and replace it — it won’t help long-term, but it can give a bit more time to figure out how to get them from Canada, or your local pusher or whatever before you run out and can do nothing because you need the meds to function)

    4
  101. Gustopher says:

    @Liberal Capitalist:

    Just listend to an NPR story where employees were fired as probationary, even though they were no longer in their first year probationary status… and had email to show their probationary status was completed.

    It’s just a shitshow.

    I could see someone forced to implement this making such a “mistake” to make it a bit easier for employees to sue. Might get them back pay between when they were improperly “fired” and when they are finally properly fired.

    It’s a shitshow, might as well try to throw a little sand in the gears even if you can’t change things.

    2
  102. dazedandconfused says:

    @JohnSF:

    The meeting in SA did not go well. Just a few hours and they quit. Little Marco and Witkoff spent many more hours riding planes than they did negotiating and came back, essentially, empty handed.

    The Russians are hip to dealing with guys like Trump. “Show no weakness”, and I suspect this business of saying that since Zelenskyy has declared martial law and stopped any elections makes Zelenskyy someone who has no authority to negotiate a deal with was a gambit to turn Trump against Zelenskyy. If so, it worked. The Russians stiffed Trump’s boys and the first thing Trump did was run to a camera to bad-mouth Zelenskyy.

    2
  103. gVOR10 says:

    Gift link to a new WAPO article about the Toronto crash. Short on information, but there’s a striking picture of the damage to the plane. Right main gear and right wing gone.

  104. al Ameda says:

    @Jay L Gischer:

    Guys, I realize this is bad news, but it also is factual, and it explains some things:
    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/favorability/donald-trump/
    Trump has gained in favorability since taking office. More people like what he’s doing (or what they think he’s doing) than approved of him before. This is the highest approval he’s ever had.

    I think that many people like the fact that he’s doing something, taking action, albeit breaking as many things as he can.

    @Jen:

    @Jay L Gischer: Huh. That runs counter to a YouGov poll I just saw that says his approval rating and personal popularity are both falling.

    I’ve seen those polls too. I think it (approval ratings) are not going to matter until and unless there is some catastrophic failure that results from the actions Trump and Musk are taking right now. It’s too far ahead of the mid-terms for them to be the slightest bit concerned. Plus, I’m of the opinion that Congressional Republicans are glad (maybe a bit uncomfortable) that Musk is the one breaking all the china, because it lets them off the hook.

    4
  105. JKB says:

    Why the unbearable sadness of the burrowed in bureaucrats being laid off isn’t getting traction with the people outside DC

    The 60,000 people who got cut loose when the Keystone XL pipeline extension was canceled after Biden took office know the feeling. Except they weren’t bureaucrats. They were skilled construction workers and engineers.

    Or go back to Clinton/Gore in the 1990s. I spent a couple years not knowing if my job was going to be done away with

    According to testimony from Elaine Karmarck, the director of Clinton’s initiative, it eliminated 426,200 federal roles between January 1993 and September 2000

  106. Kurtz says:

    As someone who takes an SNRI, I can say that it is absolutely necessary for me.

    The EO appears to be aimed at children, not adults.

    I am on the same page as @Mimai here.

    It should be monitored, but best not to overreact, given the EO.

    I did have a good time reading the stupid replies under some of Musk’s tweets about antidepressants.

    And even saw Thomas Sowell unironically asking why so many Americans are on antidepressants followed by people unironically answering “follow the money.”

    Is it possible America is actually the room from Sartre’s No Exit? If I were like Musk, I would declare that there is a 1 in billions chance we are NOT solely because of his existence. Alas, this is real.

    Reminder: Musk just says shit and a bunch of adults consume it like an 80s preteen read Tiger Beat.

    3
  107. Kurtz says:

    @JKB:

    If you cannot spot the logical flaws in that tweet within a few seconds, you should be required to repeat high school.

    8
  108. DK says:

    @JKB: Google is free, homeboy.

    Before Biden signed his executive order, only a 1.2-mile section of the pipeline had been completed in Montana near the U.S.-Canada border…

    “In total, Keystone XL is expected to employ more than 11,000 Americans in 2021, creating more than $1.6 billion in gross wages.”

    That’s close to what the State Department found in its 2014 report.

    In the report, the agency wrote that 10,400 estimated positions would be for seasonal construction work lasting four to eight-month periods. Since the State Department defines “job” as “one position that is filled for 1 year,” that would equate to approximately 3,900 jobs over a two-year period.

    In short: Most of the estimated jobs were temporary.

    The State Department forecasted that no more than 50 jobs, some of which could be located in Canada, would be required to maintain the pipeline. Thirty-five of them would be permanent, while 15 would be temporary contractors.

    Yesterday, you lied that Obama created DOGE.
    Today, you’re lying that Biden fired 60,000 workers on a pipeline that never existed.

    Why Trump slaves are desperate to lie about and deflect from Musk’s job destroying spree: they know the optics of Republicans sending the world’s richest man and biggest welfare queen to recklessly and indiscriminately fire middle class workers is bad. When you can’t defend it, just lie about it.

    P.S. “Looking at the last seven presidents, job growth totaled over 50 million under Democratic presidents compared to only 17 million under Republican presidents. Most recently, job growth has totaled nearly 16.2 million under the Biden-Harris administration as the U.S. economy has recovered from the pandemic recession. Conversely, there were 2.7 million fewer Americans employed when President Trump left office than at the beginning of his term, making him the first president in the modern era to oversee net job losses.”

    Oh.

    6
  109. DK says:

    @Kurtz: High school teachers dong deserve that.

  110. DK says:

    @wr:

    All these really well-intentioned people keep spending their time trying to draw him into a real discussion

    They are determined to get the pig to fly. It’s comedy.

  111. just nutha says:

    @Jax: I always liked Superdestroyer. He was pretty benign, all in all, and I suspect that he’d be no more pleased with what’s going on than he was with the feared “permanent Democratic majority.”

    1
  112. Kathy says:

    @dazedandconfused:

    I fully expect the felon will rehabilitate and legitimize Mad Vlad, and get nothing in return but a photo op and some love letters, maybe a few dog treats from his owner. You know, like he did with Kim.

    As to Ukraine, it bears remembering three things:

    1) Poland wasn’t party to the negotiations between Germany and the USSR in the late 30s.
    2) Germany wasn’t party to the US/UK/USSR talks at Yalta and Tehran.
    3) The Afghan government wasn’t party to the talks between the felon and the Taliban.

    I think the principle is clear: you don’t invite to negotiations those you will conquer, defeat, or betray.

    5
  113. just nutha says:

    @Beth: Gustopher’s advice is good (though I don’t have any personal knowledge about how that “lost a prescription” thing works). In the alternative, given that all y’all’s moving shortly, maybe all you need is to take a deep breath. RFK Jr. has no control over UK medical policy. Even here banning the stuff being discussed should be…
    …well, problematical comes to mind.

    1
  114. Jen says:

    @JKB: That figure–60,000–is WAY, way off.

    It was more like 11,000 jobs, and they were almost all short-term, temporary construction jobs. Specifically, more like 3,900 jobs over a two-year stretch.

    As the article I linked to notes, the end result of jobs for the Keystone XL pipeline would have been about 50 full-time, regular jobs–primarily in Canada.

    4
  115. wr says:

    @Kurtz: ” you should be required to repeat high school.”

    Assumes facts not in evidence.

    2
  116. wr says:

    @Kathy: Don’t forget, the Palestinians weren’t invited to the discussions that led to the Abraham Accords, which supposedly were going to solve the problem of Palestine once and for all.

    2
  117. Matt says:

    @Jen: They also don’t realize that USAID is buying American farmer’s crops to combat those famines and such. Just like people think we’re just sending money to Ukraine. In reality we’re sending old equipment and weapons that have use by dates to Ukraine. Then we’re using the money to buy updated/newer gear from US companies to replace the old stock. All while getting tons of very good real world data without risking a single US life.

    2
  118. Jay L Gischer says:

    @JKB: Yes, a construction worker’s life is hard. Job cancellations, or recessions are tough to handle.

    A number of the men I grew up with ended up doing construction work. I can see that it was very tough on them, not just their pocketbooks, but their bodies, too. And it has affected them.

    Many of them feel no small amount of resentment at how their lives have gone – which is not at all as well as some others.

    The traditional Republican/libertarian answer to them has been, “well being a construction worker was a choice”.

    This is not my answer. I would like to see universal health care of some kind, so they don’t lose health benefits when a job is cancelled or they can’t find work. I would like to see a UBI, for much the same reason. Mayber a few other benefits – the point of which is to make the ‘gig economy’ work better.

    I would also like to see some advocacy readily available to workers to bolster them in disputes with management. You know, like a functioning union.

    Most of the functioning of the Federal bureaucracy is not really compatible with a ‘gig’ economy. I can see where the resentment comes from, but it’s comparing apples and oranges. The value that resentment carries is the message to one’s self that one needs to do something different.

    Over the last 40 years, we have built a system that is very unfair, and is particularly unfair to construction workers. What all that resentment says is that “we need to do something different”. But “something different” is not “fire all government employees”.

    Not so long ago, a lot of my more left-leaning friends were saying, “burn it all down”. I’m not a “burn it all down” guy, but the unhappiness is there. When are we going to figure out that we’re all in this together, the oligarchs are doing this to us, and we are going to change things?

    3