Tuesday’s Forum
Steven L. Taylor
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Tuesday, March 25, 2025
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56 comments
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About Steven L. Taylor
Steven L. Taylor is a Professor Emeritus of Political Science and former College of Arts and Sciences Dean. His main areas of expertise include parties, elections, and the institutional design of democracies. His most recent book is the co-authored
A Different Democracy: American Government in a 31-Country Perspective. He earned his Ph.D. from the University of Texas and his BA from the University of California, Irvine. He has been blogging since 2003 (originally at the now defunct Poliblog).
Follow Steven on
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BlueSky.
Can you run on competence? We are about to see. Everybody has heard about the Signal group chat fiasco. Now this:
Long waits, waves of calls, web crashes: Social Security is breaking down
Tangentially:
Concerns about espionage rise as Trump and Musk fire thousands of federal workers
In the small blessings dept:
@Jen:
I put in a panicked request for a call with my attorney this morning. According to her my visa allows for work, just not as a sports person or coach and I’m not allowed any public benefits. So, ok.
Also, she said she’s triaging Americans trying to get out asap.
@Beth: Oh, excellent! I’m glad to hear that!
Take the little victories–and I do consider this a victory!–and build on them. You can do this, Beth.
I’m kind of nastaligic for the days when Republicans ablostly lost their shit over a few Emails.
This Face-Heel turn is astonishing.
But it just highlights what I believe is a Republican hallmark: bad faith.
OMG! I just saw a billboard on the busiest street in Everytown, DeSantistan:
Tariffs are a Tax on Americans.
~Canada
Who’d have thought Cannucks had larger sacks than Democrats? The billboard is doing way more outreach than 1000 James Carvilles with a 1000 megaphones on CNN.
Now for the Tarriffs = Taxes = Theft bumper stickers.
Not because we agree that taxes are theft, but because we are playing a delicate game of “Yes, and….”
The game of “No, but…” is powerless against people crystallized in a point of view. It is a game for open-minded people, not people for who the truth is first and foremost, what they feel to be true.
Remember, the Russians and Chinese didnt start by messaging in the United States, “Love us, we’re your friends!” They are are messaging where there are American eyeballs to UNDERMINE the credibility of the US Government and the political party least subservient to their goals.
The Russians have, with Trump, moved to Phase 2 (Love Us!) but only after years of undermining our citizenry’s faith in Democratic Values. This is right out of the textbooks.
@Jim X 32: The billboard is doing way more outreach than 1000 James Carvilles with a 1000 megaphones on CNN. Winning an award for the biggest overestimate of Carville’s reach. CNN is how people realize they forgot their phone at the security checkpoint.
Pathetic.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/maga-mouthpieces-offer-wild-defense-of-trump-admins-leaked-war-plans/
Listed under This Week’s Hearings Covered by C-SPAN:
Should be some interesting questions for Gabbard (What the hell was the DNI doing using Signal? How many other times and for what purposes have you used Signal for government business?), and Patel (The use of Signal calls for a counterintelligence investigation, correct? What are your plans for conducting such an investigation?)
@Eusebio: The Lincoln Project has a pretty good thread list of questions.
I have come to the conclusion that a painful recession is the only way to stop or at least slow the slide of Trumpism. My definition of Trumpism is basically fascism lite. His people know we can’t go full in on a fascist state, at least at this point in time, but they are willing to push it as far as they can.
The American people just don’t care. Too many buy into the basic tenets of the modern Republican party. Liberals have turned the US into a third world country. To bolster their argument they are using a few talk points, four of which: illegal immigrants are responsible for much of the crime in this country, DEI has destroyed our great meritocracy, our foreign trade partners are all screwing us, and the presence of trans people.
IMO a majority of people either buy into these points or just don’t care about the damage they cause people as long as it isn’t them.
I think most people assumed there is an upper boundry with Trump and his people, and the fact is there isn’t.
I’m in a senior community and plenty of people are not shy about expressing their thoughts. Many are fine with no due process to people here illegally and don’t even care that mistakes are made.
The only thing they care about is how things affect them and their family. If Trump’s policies hurt them then they may push back, but otherwise many could care less.
Heard of “The Mar-a-Lago Accord?” It’s totally bonkers, Trump’s tariff “thinking.”
“Gift Link”
snip
I wonder if Wall Street “smart people” actually take this seriously, or if this is just a story for a gullible public.
@Lucysfootball:
There are only two possibilities here:
A) The Republicans succeed at establishing perpetual dominance via “competitive authoritarianism.”
B) Trump administration policies and incompetence hurt a lot of people really badly.
I suspect if The Whistler was listening in on that Top Secret™ Signal dispatch no one would have never known about it.
@Jim X 32:
I left myself a schedule tickler. Today is 30 days since Carville said the Trump regime would collapse in 30 days. Maybe we should ignore Carville’s plan to wait for the GOPs to collapse.
Hegseth and Signal is a huge sign of incompetence, but collapse? Atrios predicts this will be a one day story. I think he’s right.
@charontwo:
“There are only two possibilities here”
You left out the possibility of both occurring.
Just looked briefly at the Senate Intelligence Committee hearing on C-SPAN. I don’t think Patel has spoken yet, but his tie is a bit loose and his shirt collar is unbuttoned. Perhaps, in his new job, he hasn’t found time to exercise and/or shop for new clothes. Or maybe he feels under pressure.
Russia adds demand to negotiations:
https://www.private-eye.co.uk/pictures/covers/full/1645_big.jpg
@charontwo: Many years ago I worked for a production company that ran entirely on the principle that no one else in the world had access to a telephone. So that when they tried to get me to write a special for them at less than Guild minimum, they assured me that there was absolutely no need for me to call the WGA to confirm this, because they had already done it, so why waste my time? Of course they were lying — as one phone call immediately proved. Or another time they were negotiating with the supervising producer and attempting to cut his salary — on the excuse that the showrunner (this guy’s best friend) was demanding he be fired, and slashing his fee was the only way to keep him on the show. Yup, again, one phone call…
Seems to me the folks planning the Mar-a-Lago accords work pretty much the same way. As long as everybody else simply accepts everything we’re going without even questioning it, we can’t fail!
@charontwo:
So, tribute and protection money? And weakening the dollar won’t cause inflation?
@Jim X 32:
One of my unfortunately short list of tactics for Democrats is to target places where Trump is hurting the locals with tariffs or cuts in programs, go in, slap up a couple of billboards, buy some cheap radio ads, and supply spokes-people to local media. These are actions that cost pennies.
@Michael Reynolds:
The others are:
1) Create a sort of shadow cabinet with people able to make a case to media with specific criticisms. The GOPs will laugh it off, and then it will start to drive them crazy.
2) Draft serious ethics legislation for all federal employees, including all of Congress and SCOTUS. Make the other side explain – again and again – why they won’t support it.
3) Start the process of de-norming greed. Greed is not a virtue, it is a vice. It’s easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle, etc… Hit on it at every opportunity. This is not that hard, this is easy. People already don’t like billionaires. They should be despised for their greed, ridiculed for their excess. Tik Tok the bastards.
4) Topic-specific, cross-party town halls. A town hall on the price of eggs. A town hall on what cuts did to the parks. Get Dems and GOPs disagreeing but also agreeing on the problems. This is fodder for local news outlets. And it shows a degree of commonality.
5) Encourage churches to take a no politics pledge. Church as a politics-free zone. Talk about Jesus, not Trump. There are ecumenical groups all over the place, there are relationships between churches of different denominations, let’s make this Jesus vs. Trump.
Our city council just voted to move trick-or-treating from Beggars’ Night to Halloween.
Beggars’ Night (aka Oct. 30) was invented whole cloth 80 some years ago by the city fathers for unfounded “safety” reasons – “won’t anyone think of the children?!?” A solution to a non-existent problem.
But it stuck.
When I moved here I had to ask colleagues “What the heck is Beggars’ Night?” It’s exactly like Halloween, but one night earlier. “Why?” They didn’t know. So I looked it up. Weird, local stuff like that is cool and interesting.
Dumb, parochial, wholesome local traditions shouldn’t be abandoned just to conform. Stuff like that is interesting. Why would you voluntarily forgo harmless local tradition?
Apparently a lot of the suburbs had moved to Halloween night proper for trick-or-treating. I get it, but it is really disappointing. It’s unique. It’s wholesome. It harms no one. Cities should embrace their good quirks, not eliminate them.
Then again, they also outlawed homeless encampments while simultaneously slashing the budget for homeless shelters reducing overnight beds. Not the brightest bulbs in the bunch.
@charontwo:
The ‘smart people’ will know it’s BS, but sign on, so they can have a story to tell the rubes.
@Michael Reynolds:
All good good tactics. “Flood the zone.”
@Michael Reynolds: Topic-specific, cross-party town halls.
Such a simple thing, apparently so hard for Dems to just do. Declare that you’re holding a town hall on Topic X, rent a space, throw a bunch of announcements across social media. Invite a couple people who are affected by cuts or use relevant programs or have some institutional knowledge/understanding.
To this I would add: short social media advertising spots, preferably targeting play on notable-view right-wing feeds. I assume Joe Rogan has control over his ads, but surely you can find 6-8 YouTubers who don’t have that control and have a collective audience of a million or more. “Here’s what’s happening, here’s why it’s bad for you, here’s how the president/administration is making this worse. And here’s a solution that works for you.” Exploit selfishness – most of these people dgaf about their extended community beyond what affects them personally. Keep it less than 10 seconds, with a snappy hed in the first 5.
I’m pissed that Dems are losing the advertising game to DHS telling immigrants to self-deport. Holy shit is that disturbing.
@ptfe:
It’s flabbergasting how much resistance there is to this idea, despite it already working, right now, in ghost town halls across the nation. I’m trying to push my county party to do it. It’s simple to set up, easy to get media attention, and–this is the important part–actually provides an important public discussion that is absent right now. It’s not just good politicking, it’s constructive.
Last week’s outreach committee meeting instead focused on who could man the booth at the 4H fair this summer and in which 4th of July Parades do we want to have a float.
@ptfe:
Democrats are very good at complaining and despairing, very bad at taking any action other than lawsuits.
@charontwo:
Solid but risky? Inherently risky, no less! But solid!
Wonder what happens to those 100 year bonds and this wisenheimer decoupage of policy, once the soon-to-be octogenarian kicks the bucket, and both MAGA and Trump heirs are jockeying for succession?
That would be a departure point for most signatories, IF (big if) any of the countries mentioned even signed on to begin with. Europe and China are fully capable of giving the Mar-A-Lago Accord the middle finger. They’ve seen enough of Trump’s modus operandi to know his schemes aren’t worth the paper. He’s incapable of honoring his offers.
@Michael Reynolds: Here’s a start:
Senate Democrats plan ‘shadow hearings’ on controversial VA cuts
Constant problem with democrats is they are no good at persistent follow-up. Always onto the next issue without beating the current one into Republican consciousness.
Also, cut the crap on “heartless and heartbreaking”. So weak and weepy.
@Moosebreath:
Many many moons ago, I wrote a The Fugitive Fan Fiction story that apparently could be resolved only two ways. I came up with a third.
A story idea I have toyed with for a long time is a Cold War era one where the Russians, Chinese, and American are all racing one another to recover this alien technology only to have a surprise fourth party beat them all to it.
That story idea has been alluded to in one of my books. Alas ‘The Pacific Job’ is likely to be one of those story ideas I never get around to writing.
@ptfe:
They’ve been losing at messaging for a long time. The other team has boatloads more money for media space, consultants, strategists, lawyers etc.
@Bill Jempty:
No aliens, but in the ballpark of ideas: “The Mouse That Roared,”and the sequel, “The Mouse That Went to the Moon.”
@Rob1:
What the Republicans offer up is propaganda and they fire it out 24/7. The Democrats are terrified of propaganda and offer consensus-based messaging despite having nobody in the party aside from the left who can perform the functions of creating a consensus. That’s why their approval rating is like -5%.
Propaganda points to direct action against enemies. That’s why Trump can pivot on Project 2025–the same enemy said he was going to do it, and now they are targeting that enemy by going after the New Deal. They have an enemy and they are not afraid to say it.
What would propaganda for the Democrats be like? We will go after the Christian right–destroy their tax exemptions, their fake schools and useless ideas, their total ignorance, their fake beliefs about religion. We will go after authoritarian tech oligarchs–we will dive into their finances, their corporations, and turn their workers against the bosses. Instead of the enemies being degrowth, environmental justice, and trans activists, you have real enemies–you name them and you don’t apologize or mitigate your language or worry if someone’s extremely mean to Marc Andreessen.
@Lucysfootball:
@Rob1:
I watched The Mouse That Roared with Peter Sellers a long time ago. It is a very good movie.
There is a story about my first attempt to watch that movie. In 1984 I paid almost $500 to buy a top loading Panasonic VHS VCR. Soon after I purchased it I learned how to program it in order to record movies that were on while I was working or I was asleep.
Back in those days Channel TBS showed both a morning and a afternoon movie*. Sometime late in 1984 I set my VCR to tape The Mouse That Roared.
I was stationed at Bethesda Naval Hospital back then and sharing an apartment with another Hospital Corpsman named Chris. Our Maryland apartment was a tiny place and we had only the one television which had the VHS player hooked up to it.
One September or October day, I set the VCR to tape ‘The Mouse that roared’ while I worked a day shift. Chris, who didn’t watch much television, and who was working night shifts at the time, chose that day to flip flop channels shortly after waking up. In the 6-7 months I had the VCR and Chris and I roomed together, that was the only he chose to watch television while I was trying to tape something.
I got to watch TMTR a year or two later. By that time I was stationed in San Diego.
The Pacific Job story’s surprise ending revolves around aliens hired to recover the technology by the people who made it.
*- With Perry Mason and Little House on the Prairie reruns on in between
@Scott:
This. Liberals are addicted to victimhood. Labeling yourself a victim is a mistake. You get a short-lived sympathy rush followed by long-term contempt and infantilization. It’s as if a gazelle on the African savannah carried a sign reading, ‘Dear Lions: I am the slow, weak one.’ You know what a coalition of victims is? Meat.
No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country. Enough, enough, enough with playing victim. We need to make the other side the victims.
One of the things that made Ulysses Grant great was that he simply would not stop. Earlier in the war the pattern was, Battle Day 1, Battle Day 2, defeat, retreat to lick wounds for three months. Grant’s approach was Battle Day 1, Battle Day 2, defeat, Battle Day 3, etc… We should already be on the counter-offensive and as far as I see the only Dems who seem to get this are Bernie and AOC.
@Modulo Myself:
Preach!
@Michael Reynolds: Sure, the left doesn’t seem angry enough.
Holding town halls isn’t as simple as finding a space and throwing up some social invites. Close, but not quite.
There’s also the need for venue protection and security, coordination with local law enforcement, etc. This stuff takes at least as twice as long as you think just to coordinate, and three times as long to actually get off the ground.
Is it hard? No. Is it as simple as some here are suggesting? Also no.
@Michael Reynolds:
It’s worked really well for the Republicans.
Is there a distinction that I am missing, or which you didn’t explore?
@Beth:
Crushing your dreams of a new career in professional women’s roller derby
I finished Kaos, season only, over the weekend.
It ticked my box for afterlife mythology, but also one thing I’ve been wondering for a while: how would a modern polytheistic society look like? It came close to answering this, though we only saw a cult of Hera.
The setting is a mishmash of Greek myths set in what looks like the late 20th century. There are cars, electronics, phones, TV, etc. But you also get known characters like Minos, Ariadne, Orpheus, Eurydice, Cassandra (!), the Minotaur, Polyphemus*, Caeneus, etc.
Of the gods, we see Zeus, Hera, Poseidon, Dionysus, Hades, Persephone, and Prometheus. Also the Fates and the Furies. Others get mentioned but don’t appear. All of them, except maybe Dionysus and Prometheus, are trump level pricks and ass*oles.
The problem is Netflix cancelled the show, and there won’t be a second season. now, the story, no spoilers, comes to a conclusion and it’s not a cliff hanger. But there are lots of things left hanging, which one expects to be addressed in a second season. But there’s no second season…
*Polyphemus is portrayed as a tall human missing one eye. That was a nice touch.
@Jen: Yeah. I’ve found that whenever someone asks “why aren’t we doing “X,” more often than not, there’s a good reason that the person suggesting it has no clue whatsoever about.
@Gustopher:
Yes. When they feel victimized they attack, and keep up the attack. And we whine and pat each other on the head and say, ‘poor baby’. A victim who counterattacks is no longer a victim. Like when a lion jumps a buffalo and the buffalo gores the lion.
@Gustopher:
Yes. When they feel victimized they attack, and keep up the attack. And we whine and pat each other on the head and say, ‘poor baby’. A victim who counterattacks is no longer a victim. Like when a lion jumps a buffalo and the buffalo gores the lion.
Oookay thats weird.
@Jen:
Should be obvious. But online comments sections are characteristically full of keyboard warriors, political experts, and electoral geniuses (self-diagnosed, of course). Well-meaning, largely harmless blowhards who have all the solutions — yet who, somehow in decades of living, have never run anything but their mouths. And who, if forced to run, couldn’t get elected dog catcher in a race in which they were the only candidate.
I’m endlessly amused at the process by which those earnest true believers who have never done, convince themselves they know better than those who do do. Dunning-Kruger, a lack of humility, an excess of glib self-satisfaction etc.
Per usual, one will never go broke underestimating the unearned ego of the mediocre Amerikkkan — left, right, or center. This misplaced pride is partly why the US is global laughingstock atm, deservedly so. “Greatest country in the world” where a young man just died because our system tried to charge him $500 for an asthma inhaler that costs €5 in “socialist” Finland, the world’s happiest nation. Pfft!
@Michael Reynolds:
Dude. Trump and MAGA are eternal, perpetual victims. Trump has ridden a constant mantra of victimhood to the Presidency twice. He and MAGA marinate 24/7/365 in a fetid soup of grievance, and it has taken them to the pinnacle of power.
@Kathy:
There was a prequel series to the early-2000s Battlestar Galactica, Caprica, that tried to tackle what a modern (future-modern) polytheistic society would be like, especially with the clash with a small group of monotheists. It had 14 other plots and themes and was something of an overstuffed mush. I liked it, despite its many, many flaws — but few other people did and it was cancelled after almost one season.
On the other hand, if you really are curious about a polytheistic modern society, and want a more grounded interpretation without cylons and cyberspace and all of that stuff, may I recommend India?
It does have a lot of extraneous themes about colonialism and racism though. And the gods are all weird, no Apollo, Zeus or Hera. And the cycle of rebirth (along with the deep desire to end that cycle and just get it over with) probably confuses things.
(Sorry if this reads like I’m being an asshole. I remembered India after I remembered Caprica and am poking fun at myself more than you)
@Michael Reynolds: except the Republicans also gloat at everything that happened to liberals. Either I’m missing your point, or your point just patently doesn’t work. Usually I can see how the parts fit together even when I don’t agree with you.
One of us is failing right now. I think it’s you. Not 100% sure, though, because sometimes I’m very dim.
I do think we haven’t done a good job of showing Americans that they are being victimized by the Elon Musks and Donald Trumps of the world, far more than the kids in cat ears in public schools who need to use litter boxes. By the time those kids grow up, will they even be able to afford litter boxes?
Between avocado toast, soy lattes and cat litter, I don’t know how young people are supposed to save up a down payment on a house. If we can’t fix this, parents will forever be sitting in their recliner, while their kids are at home chasing a laser pointer. Is that the life we want for America’s youth?
On a related note, my brother sent me something about how the current bird flu is caused by a lab leak because of gain of function research that was approved by Fauci.
People are so fucking stupid. And by people, I mean my brothers.
Look, this is my bloodline, of course I suspect I’m failing to understand you! I come from idiots! My father’s work on the Saturn IV rocket led directly to the creation of the Saturn V! I have a grandfather who died immediately after saying “Watch this!” (He then promptly fell dead into a plate of corned beef and cabbage in a pub on St. Patrick’s day, and his friends thought he was just drunk and carried on. Did they pick corned beef off his plate? Stories differ.)
@Gustopher:
I’ve touched lightly on Indian history, including the period of Hellenistic influence through Alexander’s conquests. I know a bit more about mythology. Maybe next time I’m interested in religion I’ll look it up.
@Gustopher:
It’s really pretty simple:
Scenario One: It’s elementary school and you punch me in the nose. I go crying to teacher. Teacher punishes you. Then it happens again, and I go crying to teacher. And this time the teacher rolls her eyes and chides you. After a couple more rounds teacher agrees you’re a bully, and also knows I’m a pussy. And all the other kids know I’m a pussy. And I know I’m a pussy. You know who bullies prey on? Pussies.
Scenario Two: It’s elementary school and you punch me in the nose. You’re bigger than me and I can’t beat you in a fight, so I piss in your Dr. Pepper. You retaliate by punching me in the nose, but you can’t change the fact you drank my piss. That set of facts defines you as a bully who is outwitted, and me as a little guy who still gets his own back. Next year no one fucks with me, because I have a reputation.
Victimhood should be the start of retaliation, it’s not meant to be a comfortable end state. Particularly if you add layers to the victimization. If you form a Facebook group with other victims and, you think about ways to console each other. You have little passive-aggressive ‘who’s the biggest victim?’ contests. I know you’re a victim, but I am also a victim twice over because blah blah blah.
In another Facebook group, the bullies group, they discuss who to victimize next. Guess who they choose. A bunch of pussies who didn’t retaliate.
A victim who fights back ceases to be a victim. A victim who doesn’t retaliate wears a ‘kick me’ sign. Republicans felt victimized and they weaponized that feeling to piss in our Dr. Peppers, which made them feel strong, and it fed their desire to take even more revenge, and now, they run the country and they have all the power and we doom scroll and emote.
Everyone gets victimized at some point. But you don’t have to remain a victim, you don’t have to make it a lifestyle. You don’t have to tell yourself you’re so brave for being a victim. They send one of yours to the hospital, you send one of theirs to the morgue. I don’t really see why that’s hard to understand. I mean, are you a pacifist?
@Rob1:
There were actually several Leonard Wibberley novels about Grand Fenwick:
The Mouse that Roared (1958)
Beware of the Mouse (prequel)
The Mouse on the Moon
The Mouse on Wall Street
The Mouse that Saved the West (written many years later)
The quality is uneven (to say the least). The original is justifiably a classic.
@Gustopher:
I’ve told this anecdote here before. My parents pushed me into joining Boy Scouts because I was a loner. I was a happy loner, but in those days that was one step away from becoming a guy who kills hobos. So I signed up, and almost immediately there was camping. The hazing ritual was explained to me, and I explained that I had a blued-steel, Marine bayonet that I’d use on anyone who tried. Later on, after the hazing crew had wisely passed me by, I walked home at 2 AM, and that was the end of that. I had demonstrated a willingness to inflict pain, and a willingness to just leave.
Deterrence was established, and there was never a need for DefCon One, because I had that vibe. Like I would not tolerate it, I would retaliate, I would make any sort of attack on me unprofitable.
In my entire life I have never been in a serious fight. (Aside from ejecting drunks from restaurants where I worked.) I’m not belligerent or hostile, I’m polite, I’m careful not to seem too smart, I fake laugh when I need to. Many people find me charming. And I’m tall, but not huge, yet zero bullying in middle school nor my two years in High School nor while hitchhiking cross country multiple times, nor during my 11 days in jail, nor in any job I’ve ever had, despite the fact that I was always the fish, the new kid, the one without a gang.
Deterrence, my dude. Peace through strength. There is no peace through pity.
@Michael Reynolds: When you get a doctor in the UK, you might want to get checked for a tremor if this continues. My tremor seems to enable me to press the send button twice often. I alternate between double posts and “posting too quickly” with some regularity.
@Beth: Beth, what area in Greater London are you in? Starting on Saturday, I’ll be in SE London (bordering Kent County to be precise) visiting friends for a week. Part of the reason is that with a US passport, I can’t be in the EU for more than 90 days without a visa, but I still need more time to be in Romania to settle estate issues for my late father. I don’t have a set schedule yet, but I’ll probably be going to central London at least a couple times next week. I haven’t been posting much on this forum, though I’ve been lurking for about 15 years. If you want to meet a fellow American, I am game.
BTW, it is possible to buy a prepaid Vodafone or Orange SIM that gives you quite a bit of data (as well as voice), including UK roaming options for only 6 euros or so for 30 days, I just got one (while still in Romania) with the roaming option for UK yesterday. Good stopgap solution until you find a long term solution for that.