Tuesday’s Forum
Steven L. Taylor
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Tuesday, July 15, 2025
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52 comments
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About Steven L. Taylor
Steven L. Taylor is a Professor Emeritus of Political Science and former College of Arts and Sciences Dean. His main areas of expertise include parties, elections, and the institutional design of democracies. His most recent book is the co-authored
A Different Democracy: American Government in a 31-Country Perspective. He earned his Ph.D. from the University of Texas and his BA from the University of California, Irvine. He has been blogging since 2003 (originally at the now defunct Poliblog).
Follow Steven on
Twitter and/or
BlueSky.
I still think there is no Epstein client list and that House Republicans absolutely don’t want their voters to see there was never any there there.
Regardless, Republicans started this shit and now they got to own it.
Fun times.
The poison is seeping in.
Drill Sergeant Under Investigation After Having Soldiers Do Push-Ups Under MAGA Flag
@drj: Like the Trump administration would heed anything Congress says, even if the amendment had passed.
@drj:
Cue the apologetics in 3…2…1
@Rick DeMent:
Apparently there are factions among MAGA, some of which are already falling in line while others are not yet ready to give up.
I kind of liked this part:
These people believe anything.
@drj:
So you think no one, anywhere, has, or could compile, a list of people who went to Epstein’s island and abused underaged girls? A thing happened, in the real world, and happened again and again over the course of years, and involved dozens if not hundreds of real people, and yet there is no evidence of same?
It’s not about some neatly typed-up list, it’s about what happened, the witnesses to what happened, the documents seized from Epstein that relate what happened, and the people – starting with Trump – who are now desperately trying to tell us all to go away.
It’s times like this I wish @CSK were here – she’s the one who took on the onerous task of keeping up with MAGA sites. But I have not seen her since she was gratuitously bullied a few days ago.
@Michael Reynolds:
First part is easy. Second part not so much. Especially if one requires an evidentiary standard that would hold up in court.
A list, even if plausible, is not evidence.
Trump Inc. moves in on world soccer. Can “merch” be far behind?
— Tournament officials appear to be maintaining a fiction that this was planned, but this may be more signs of a world coming to terms with accommodating a narcissist.
@drj:
We are not talking about court. Prosecutions would be all but impossible even if most of the crimes haven’t fallen under statute of limitations. But this is politics, not law.
@Rob1:
This is kind of a natural partnership. From anything I have read over the years FIFA as an organization would give Trump a run for his money on corruption. Hopefully they spend the next year pilfering from each other instead of working together to find other marks.
@Michael Reynolds:
It would have to be some pretty indisputable stuff for MAGA to even care.
Didn’t Trump deliberately walk in on a bunch of half-naked Miss Teen whatever candidates? Wasn’t Trump caught on mike bragging about committing sexual assault?
A list with his name on it that is merely plausible wouldn’t do shit.
I’m going to enjoy paying more for coffee, orange juice, and tomatoes.
Inflation accelerates in June as investors eye tariff-related price increases
The world accommodates, learns to live with a narcissist. This squares with accounts from friends and acquaintances who grew up with a NPD parent: adaptive relationship behavior.
To be expected at a personal level, but within the top realm of national leadership in a “democracy”? Can such an arrangement, where open accountability takes a backseat to accommodation of a major personality disorder, even be considered democratic anymore?
From the horse’s mouth:
The world watches as America’s democracy transforms into a metaphor.
@Michael Reynolds:
For the second time in recent weeks by the same individual, IIRC.
CSK, if you are lurking, you are missed! xo
@drj:
MAGA are seething and Trump is hysterical with fear, so clearly there is some potential political damage here.
Hardcore MAGA culties are not the only people who supported Trump. There are the casuals, especially the so-called manosphere. Between the Epstein cover-up and ICE brutality and tax cuts at the expense of rural hospitals, and the TACO truck, there’s a crack forming. How big a crack? Don’t know. But it’s a crack that did not exist just a few weeks ago.
@Pete S: You correctly identify the transactional relationship as “pilfering” (notwithstanding that it is fans and taxpayers who are being pilfered from), but is it correct to normalize this exchange as a “natural partnership”? As between thieves?
I don’t recall seeing firsthand, such behavior from any of our Presidents in the past 60 years. Decorum of office and all. Are we now to accept the merging of personal material self interest with that of the office of the Presidency?
@Jen: @Michael Reynolds:
I missed it. All I saw referred to @CSK taking a break.
Which thread contains the incident?
@Michael Reynolds:
My take is that if – after all the hype – it turns out that there never was an Epstein list to begin with, the narrative of good, red-blooded us vs. child-molesting, elitist them starts falling apart. Because in that case, MAGA’s foot soldiers have been played.
It might seriously fuck with MAGA’s self-image.
So now Trump is desperately saying that the Epstein list was tainted/created by Obama (or Clinton? Hard to keep track.)
TL;DR: we don’t need an actual list for this issue to become a major MAGA headache.
It’s very hard to prove a negative.
You can’t just show an empty folder and say: here’s the Epstein list! See, there isn’t one!
@Rob1:
By a natural partnership I meant from a “den of thieves” type of perspective, that they would be drawn to each other. In no way do I think Trump’s corruption is normal or acceptable and I don’t ever remember seeing anything like it from a head of state in a democracy.
@Rob1:
I guess he’s an “everyone gets a trophy” guy now, the woke-ass bitch.
@Rob1: he also pocketed a winner’s medal. Video
https://www.reddit.com/r/sports/comments/1lzlezi/donald_trump_stole_a_cwc_winners_medal/
Synchronicity with a look wayback.
We recently binge watched our way through all episodes of Netflix’s The Gilded Age, a finely detailed period piece covering the highest echelon of NYC society during this nation’s emergence from civil war into an explosive, transformational industrial (and capital) revolution.
The requisite literary device of fictionalized drama with great performances by the likes of Christine Baranski, provide personalized plot lines. But woven into the fabulous visual tapestry, are the Astors, Morgans, Vanderbilts, Goulds, and real events like the electrification of NYC, the marriage of an American heiress to a British Duke, The Panic of 1873, etc. I kept my Wikipedia handy and made ample use of the pause button, for mini-history lessons.
After concluding our “catch-up” on episodes and then reading the Gizmodo piece linked below, I was struck by parallels to the transformational dynamics of these two ages. Certainly Musk, Bezos, and others have been called the “robber barons” of our times. But, I’ve been skeptical of gushing predictions heaped on A.I. during its rollout. The plaything quality of reports from friends and associates left me underwhelmed. Notwithstanding, I was similarly underwhelmed (naively) by the rollout of the internet, even as I excitedly wended my way through the world of dial-up BBSs.
Here we are on the cusp of a transformational revolution that will change everything, including our political system, our personal lives, our work lives (or lack thereof), our medical care, our very relationship with each other. Nothing will be untouched. Nothing will be the same, including our political relationship to each other and how we are governed. This new revolution has the power to unseat liberal democracy, or empower it — but I am decidedly pessimistic on that matter — the magnitude of power being unleashed only ensures a magnitude of corruption and distortion of values. Netflix’s drama reminds us of these possibilities from another age in history.
But 150 years ago, technology augmented the use of human labor to build out a sparce nation. Now A.I. technology will eliminate human labor in a highly compacted society. Elon Musk’s call for increasing human population provides an odd juxtaposition at this moment. Can guaranteed annual income not be far behind? So many questions, so many possibilities. We have caught the tail of a tiger and have to hang on for dear life, towards a great uncertainty. Now as then.
Recommended companion to Netflix’s The Guild Age: documentary The Men Who Built America.
@Neil Hudelson: Okay man, that is funny.
@Erik: I missed that. Did anyone check the silverware up in his box? I mean, it was perfect timing —- everyone was stunned, focusing on PSGs blowout in real time.
@Michael Reynolds:
CSK is a female?
I gotta start paying closer attention.
@Rob1:
Only if Soylent Green flops.
@Kathy:
It’s people!
@Rob1:
Geez! Spoiler alert! 😀
@Rob1: I saw this a couple of days ago but it didn’t get much attention. But, yes, AI is already having an impact.
Indeed, Glassdoor to cut 1,300 jobs amid AI integration, memo shows
Another thing that is not pointed out regularly is that AI and other data centers pull a lot of electricity making the price of power more expensive and, at the same time, don’t really hire too many people. So everyday people are going to pay more for heat and A/C but won’t necessarily be paid more to afford it.
I know this sounds very Luddite (not our Luddite) but going in with eyes wide open is preferable to going in blind. BTW, I believe a form of Universal Basic Income is inevitable. A conversation about that needs to happen before actual proposals to get people acculturated to the idea.
@Kurtz: Round 1. Round 2.
BTW, Season 3 of Foundation is out already. I’m not sure it’s worth interrupting my half-hearted binging of For all Mankind to take in weekly eps, at least not if I can just finish it this week…
@Jen:
Thanks. I remember seeing part of those discussions, but never circled back to them.
I can tell you that de stijl expressed a distaste for those sorts of questions years ago—indicates a highly salient issue personally. I felt bad, because I’m pretty sure I was the one who initially asked whether de stijl had been around.
But the criticism expressed is way over the top—descriptors such as stalking, parasocial. Neither really fit the situation, absent other indications of overbearing behavior. But the OTB community is fairly tight knit. So in context, the judgment seems patently disproportionate.
Also, it can be interpreted as paternalistic—not everyone would see the indicted behavior as problematic. And many, if not most, who find an expression of concern unappealing would not use such damning language to describe it.
Obviously if a person expresses they do not like it, do not do it. But to speak for another about this topic is directionally similar. If de stijl had argued for a default disposition wrt expressions of concern, that would be different. Rather, this seems to be an inappropriate application of one’s personal preference to others.
Most importantly, it seems n/a in Beth’s case because she has expressed appreciation for the support she has received here, shared about her struggles with mental health in a highly personal way, and iirc, chose to announce her break here—giving a specific reason that had nothing to do with privacy from regulars.
Lastly, prior to that thread, I’m pretty sure Beth’s participation in the Signal group had been mentioned several times here. Yet another piece of info that implies expressions of concern for Beth are far from out of bounds.
@Jen: Goodness, I had an exchange with
CSK in one of those threads. I pushed back on something, which turned out to not to be much of a disagreement.
And I really appreciate CSK’s contributions here over the years.
I am kind of dismayed to be tangled up in something that pushes people away.
While I can appreciate the desire for privacy that folks have, I will note that the inevitable result of chatting with people on a daily basis for multiple years is that one gives a damn about them, and would like to know how they are doing when they disappear.
This was in force for me when I attended my high-school reunion. There were people there that I rode the school bus with daily for K-12. They also mean something to me, even though I would not always describe them as good friends. That’s just how it works…
One of the worst things about aging, I have found, is all the stuff that disappears, even though you didn’t want it to. You might have bought Brand X at the grocery store every week for 20 years, and one day you go there, and there isn’t any Brand X on the shelf, and there never will be.
Humans are a lot more important than groceries, but the same kind of thing can happen. Sometimes they die, but sometimes they just drift away. Or maybe I drift away? It can be hard to tell sometimes.
@Rob1: In my long convalescence for some reason I decided to read all the Vonnegut books. His first, “Player Piano” is largely forgotten, he had not developed his distinctive style yet and, frankly, there’s a lot of filler in the thing.
Yet I suspect it may be the most likely-to-be of the dystopian novels though. A practical solution for the useless masses has to be found, and while it will not be pretty, it doesn’t have to be, and perhaps is unlikely to be, deliberately cruel. This is of course is undramatic, which hurts book sales, so we don’t see many tales of this sort.
Somehow we will have to find a way to love a heck of lot of people for whom there is no use. Reeks and Recks?
@Jen: Don’t forget the toilet paper incident!
@Kurtz:
I’m going to very lightly defend de Stijl here.
Working in user facing, community based software for a bunch of years, one of the things I found most striking was how very differently people view privacy that would pop up in usability testing. As a rule of thumb, women are far more sensitive to information being known than men, but there’s a lot of variation, particularly among minorities and other targeted groups.
And most of them thought that their view was pretty much universal, except for a few cranks.
He’s had a quick tempter for a bit, and the dude should definitely chill a bit. But I totally get the privacy thing.
Add in that he works/volunteers with the homeless*, and he’s in direct contact with a lot of marginalized people who are being targeted by this administration (and were being targeted before), and his testiness makes sense. And his protective streak.
And toilet paper brings out the asshole in everyone. (Sorry**)
Again, it’s still not cool, and the dude should chill, but I generally like de Stijl so… dude should chill, work out a chilling routine that works better, etc. Good dude, though. Sometimes difficult, but good.
——
*: I don’t think he would want us digging through his past posts to figure him out, but this he has mentioned a lot recently.
**: I’m not really sorry. Honestly, that line was the only reason I wrote this comment.
@Rob1:
Generative AI is overhyped trash. Great, we’ve automated Hitler.
Ok, that’s probably a bit strong, but it’s a huge bubble right now, which the investment class is trying to apply to everything and anything, largely because they forget that it can’t think, and they hate workers. I don’t think we will know what the state of things is until that bubble bursts and expectations settle down to reality.
It’s really good at answering questions, pretty bad at answering questions correctly, and basically incapable of asking questions. That’s pretty limited.
@Gustopher:
LLMs are getting a lot of work and producing, by most accounts, substandard results. Look up AI slop. John Oliver did a whole episode on it recently.
IMO, if LLMs could think, they’d be busy writing upbeat stories, movies, songs, and TV shows, about AIs taking over the world. You know, to counteract such effective anti AI propaganda like Terminator and The Mitchells vs The Machines.
After several months playing with some of them, much of which I posted right here, I use them now only to 1) search very specific items that are harder to find in general web searches, and 2) summarize bits of my writing to check whether I’m conveying what I think.
I could use them a but more for emails, but 1) I don’t have many complicated emails to write*, and 2) they never sound like something I would write.
*I send plenty of emails, but they are simple. It would be far more work to run the AI and write the prompt.
Cant believe I missed this. People on the right believe, Trump said it was true, that kids are having gender affirming surgeries at their high schools. Seriously, no one does any surgery at high schools. They dont have the personnel or the equipment. You would have to be deranged to believe this, or belong to a cult (of personality).
As an aside I think the Kaiser Family Foundation does yeoman’s work on debunking a lot of th lies about medical issues in general and trans care in particular.
https://www.kff.org/the-monitor/falsehoods-about-transgender-people-and-gender-affirming-care/
Steve
@Scott:
Thanks for the kind words. FEL is perhaps less accurate than what the DA and psychs identified my personality as, but for the sake of those around me, I try to remain pleasant and social (as opposed to sociopathic).
My ongoing concerns here remain the dystopian hell I envision in this scenario. Soulless enclaves where no one can actually do anything, because there is no way for the masses to contribute to society, or their betterment, or have any way to do anything except be plugged into their pablum and on-screen entertainment. My belief is that, while the intent and goal may well be moral, noble, and uplifting, since humans are involved, we will truly fwk this sucka up!!!
My current other nightmare involves US Gummint sending out all the able-bodied (yeah, right) on various disability programs out to work in the fields. Shades of The Killing Fields. And of course, as a disabled/old/felon, I’m triply dammed.
Gods above and below, but I’m certainly in a depressive funk today.
I keep hearing of this signal group? How does one join?
I used to use signal a lot but they dropped sms support and I moved on. I gather they may still support it and the rumor of sms demise was overblown. I still have it on my phone because of a few long standing convos with journos.
Eta no they don’t support sms, alas.
The New York Post, via MSN
Iranian fatwa crowdfunding effort claims to have raised $40M for bounty on President Trump’s head
I think this would violate the terms of service on kickstarter.
I remember when the right wing was saying images of people in crosshairs wasn’t any kind of threat, just playful messaging from people like Sarah Palin.
@Neil Hudelson: I am tiedyejax on Signal, can add you to the group!
I must confess, I am still laughing over your story about jamming out at a stoplight with a gal in a convertible. I bet that made her day!
@Flat Earth Luddite:
Let’s assume that AI lives up to the wildly unrealistic hype: we will always need electricians, plumbers, garbage men, secret police, product designers, and baristas. Even nurses and physical therapists.
So, I’m more optimistic.
Oh, I think that will happen long before we get to universal basic income. The Trump administration is already talking about it.
@Jay L. Gischer:
Depends on how hungry you are.
If you’re moderately hungry, I think you’d prefer groceries. If you’re really, really hungry, people are groceries.
Soylent Green: made from the best stuff on Earth… people!
(That’s from the very weird Newsradio episode that took place in the far future on a space station. They did a few random episodes that took the sitcom and changed the location. There was a Titanic episode as well. Nothing about the meathead electrician becoming one of the most influential voices in America though.)
@Jax:
I’m having issues starting a chat with that username. Signals changed a lot since I used it regularly a few years ago. I just set up my username, can you try befriending me? @bourbonix.37
@Jax:
I’m having issues starting a chat with that username. Signals changed a lot since I used it regularly a few years ago. I just set up my username, can you try befriending me? @bourbonix.37
Eta: invite link: https://signal.me/#eu/dD9-CC8ESzOhq-O7i4Wuh69tDzYn7WdbSGxqiaSjulV0wvyjPalOZ6TIvO9S66o8
@Neil Hudelson:
Group invite sent
@dazedandconfused: I missed that Vonnegut. Will have to circle back, curious about your take.
@Gustopher:
I too was stuck at that assessment, dismissing A.I. because of the “it’s human” hyperbole. That hyperbole is thinking too big and our dismissal is thinking too small. But the reality will be much bigger in ways we aren’t likely to envision in this moment. It will replace many “jobs.” Workers and society will scramble to keep up, and stay relevant. I now see this “information processing” revolution spreading out and taking hold in innumerable niches, supercharging other technological innovation with accelerated knock-on effect. If/when, through A.I., humans find a way to harness quantum entanglement, and then innovate that, watch out.
@Kurtz:
The guy involved is one of our more interesting, unique voices. I’m guessing he was just havinga. bad day. I wasn’t the only one to push back, but I’m not naming anyone. I ain’t no rat.
@Daryl:
She’s a published author of true crime books. IIRC. Which is never guaranteed.