<s>Wednesday’s</s> (Oops) Tuesday’s Forum
Steven L. Taylor
·
Tuesday, July 29, 2025
·
38 comments
OTB relies on its readers to support it. Please consider helping by becoming a monthly contributor through Patreon or making a one-time contribution via PayPal. Thanks for your consideration.
About Steven L. Taylor
Steven L. Taylor is a Professor Emeritus of Political Science and former College of Arts and Sciences Dean. His main areas of expertise include parties, elections, and the institutional design of democracies. His most recent book is the co-authored
A Different Democracy: American Government in a 31-Country Perspective. He earned his Ph.D. from the University of Texas and his BA from the University of California, Irvine. He has been blogging since 2003 (originally at the now defunct Poliblog).
Follow Steven on
Twitter and/or
BlueSky.
A number of times now, Trump has stated that Bill Clinton went to Epstein’s island 28 times. That’s demonstrably false, as there is no evidence Clinton ever went there. Trump is conflating 26 “flights” Bill Clinton had on Epstein’s plane, none of which went to the island, and most of which were documented humanitarian visits – including a trip to Africa for aids relief that accounted for 11 of the 26 “flights. Doesn’t anyone in the elite political media know this? Said media sits by idly while Trump makes (yet another) outrageously false claim, and worse, lets the claim stand un-rebutted.
Then there is the dangling of a pardon for Maxwell by Trump….”I haven’t thought about it, but I am allowed to do it.” Then Todd Blanche, forgetting he is no longer Trump’s defense attorney, visits Maxwell in prison and LIKELY coaches her on exposing 100 guys who are not named Trump. Quid pro quo? Of course. Blatant corruption? What else is new? Get ready for it
Time Zone check…
Once again I tried to register/recover my password with no luck. Finally I decided to email Dr. Joyner directly, only to discover I had done that two years ago and he had sent me my password back then. Still works! And this time I put it in my password manager…
I’m still on OTB sabbatical though, and mostly will be visiting for Steven’s phots and Ancient Geeks posts
Comment count check…
Re on not finding a comedy music act funny or interesting anymore, I guess it’s habituation through repeated exposure.
Take the Abbott & Costello famous “Who’s on first” routine. Listen to it enough, and you won’t laugh a much the Nth time as you did the first few dozen times. You may even begin to find inconsistencies here and there, wonder how the one asking “who’s on first” doesn’t get it, how someone goes through life with a name like Idontknow, etc.
@Kathy:
I don’t know? There was an NFL player by the name of I.M. Hipp. Stranger things have happened. Dweezel Zappa, X Musk anyone?
@Kathy: “Who’s on first?” isn’t just a classic comedy sketch, it’s a genre. My first exposure to it as a kid was this scene from Police Squad (the short-lived TV series that inspired the Naked Gun films):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=het1kl-A8qw
I think my favorite variation on it over the years is this one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CL4ojwNaDNw
In terms of comedy acts wearing thin over time, well that’s just the nature of the medium. But it’s probably why I have such an appreciation for things I first saw as a kid–including the aforementioned Naked Gun, which I first saw at age 11 and thought was hilarious despite the fact that at least 50% of the jokes flew right over my head. The result was that it seemed to get better with repeat viewings the older I got. Hell, I even had that experience with the Marx Bros.–as a kid I got the most out of the slapstick sequences, but as I got older I developed an increasing appreciation for Groucho’s (often subtly off-color) jibes, as well as Margaret Dumont’s work in the films.
If I were to compile a list of my favorite comedies, I have no doubt virtually all of the entries would consist of stuff I don’t laugh much at anymore if at all, but that doesn’t mean I wouldn’t enjoy the rewatch, which hold up for me not just in terms of nostalgia but in terms of my mind starting to break down and analyze why the scenes work as well as they did. I had watched A Fish Called Wanda maybe a dozen or so times before I listened to John Cleese’s commentary on the DVD, where I was fascinated by how he described the process of putting the film together. But I definitely wouldn’t recommend it for someone who hasn’t seen the film before. It’s why I avoid movie reviews before watching a film. You only have one chance at a first time.
@Gregory Lawrence Brown:
I found out from your post late yesterday that Ryne Sandberg had passed away at the age of 65. If there were a metric for most watched and most liked baseball players of all time, I think Sandberg would be near the top. He played at a time when WGN broadcast Cubs games on cable networks around the country, as the Atlanta station did for Braves games. Wrigley field helped with the Cubs games’ appeal, as did announcer Harry Caray during those years with his 7th inning stretch singing and Budweiser promoting. And Sandberg was, of course, an excellent hitter and excellent fielder–an all-round great player.
@MarkedMan: Glad it worked! This went into moderation, but future posts shouldn’t.
@MarkedMan: Glad it worked! This went into moderation, but future posts shouldn’t.
@Charley in Cleveland:
This entire episode is so f’ed up.
In addition to the unsubstantiated claims about Clinton, and the comically inevitable, and maximally corrupt, pardon for Maxwell, there’s the cherry-picked propaganda about Obama et al and the Russian Election Interference that is being mis-labeled a “hoax.”
The way that the media, and even the Democrats, are letting this shit go unchallenged has me seeing red.
This bullshit is never going to go away. A conman is being allowed to run whatever con pleases him.
I know time flies when you’re having fun, but I didn’t know you’d skip over an entire day.
@Kylopod:
You know what else wears thing with repetition? At least for me, good coffee. The first few dozen cups with a good bean are amazing. Later on they’re just nice. It helps to rotate the types, even going back to mass produced just ok coffee for a while.
@Kylopod: One of my favorite Police Squad/Naked Gun jokes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6mor63_Lvo
Epstein should be on the lips of every Democrat. Constantly remind people that Epstein enabled pedophiles. Talk about it on the floor of the House and the Senate. At this point I would be shocked if Trump didn’t have sex with underage girls that were supplied by Epstein.
@Charley in Cleveland:
@Lucys Football:
El Taco said the other day he never visited Epstein’s private island. Until he said this, I had no reason to suspect he ever had. Now I’m 99% certain he did.
@Kathy and Kylopod: In addition to the fact that almost anything repeatedly consumed loses its punch, it is the nature of comedy to substitute an unexpected element into an otherwise predicted course of events.
Once you have heard this joke and certainly once you have heard it a dozen times, you may still find it clever, but you will no longer find it funny. The misdirection is now the expected direction.
@Joe: Additionally (and this doesn’t just apply to humor), things that have been imitated to death can become hard to appreciate for later generations. When I got around to watching Blazing Saddles, I did think it was excellent overall–however one of the most famous scenes in it, the campfire scene, did nothing for me. I’ve never been the biggest fan of fart jokes to begin with, but the one in that movie seemed totally routine and uninspired, despite the fact that, at the time it came out, it was utterly original; no one had ever done a scene like that, so it caught audiences off guard, especially because it ventured into what was then taboo territory but which today seems utterly harmless.
One of my favorite ever Simpsons episode is the one about Frank Grimes (“Homer’s Enemy”), but I admit a big reason why I laughed so hard the first time I saw it was that I didn’t expect the show to go as dark as it did. Hell, nowadays it’s hard to believe the show was ever considered subversive; it seems positively tame compared to many of the animated series it inspired.
@Kylopod:
Do you ever get the feeling we’re all Frank Grimes since El Taco first got elected?
@Kylopod:
My favorite variation on the joke. I remember rolling on the floor watching this, belly ache laughing at age 8 or so. I also remember my mother laughing from watching me. Fond memory. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mdqv5xIsFLM
I have a couple of friends who have seen an advanced or unfinished screening of the new Naked Gun with Liam Neeson, and their reviews were surprisingly effusive.
@Kathy: This is the way. I subscribe to a fancy schmancy mail order microroaster program that sends me 2 “pounds” every month (12 ounces is now a pound, in coffee world), and in between each pound I palate cleanse with a pretty-okay local roast that Costco carries.
@Kathy:
I definitely think Grimey had a dangerous case of HDS.
@Neil Hudelson: I’m trying to keep an open mind, but ever since I heard about the casting of Liam Neeson in it I was puzzled, because it’s hard for me to think of a time he has ever done comedy. (He’s been in a few comedies before, but even in those his performances weren’t really comedic.) It’s true that Leslie Nielsen was known as a dramatic actor for decades before he shifted toward comedy, but the shift happened before Naked Gun, with the movie Airplane, which was based on the conceit of casting dramatic actors and having them recite ridiculous lines in pure deadpan. Once people realized how good Nielsen was at it, he started doing more comedies, and by The Naked Gun he had somewhat abandoned the deadpan style and was being deliberately hammy at least half of the time.
I think it helps if you watch a movie you thought funny with someone who has never seen it before. I found out the wife had never seen Roxanne so we watched it and she laughed so hard I thought she would pee. It really added to my enjoyment. Recently I have been doing it with the grandkids as we watched Fantasia and got the older one to watch The Princess Bride.
Steve
For you Wednesday people – I am in Tuesday.
Any stock tips?
@Barry_D:
Obviously Doc Brown Enterprises will collapse after the issue with time circuits is known.
I find myself annoyed with the manipulation that goes with humor. I find myself smiling at some broadcast comedy series that has a laugh track. The protagonist appears, and someone says,”Good morning” to him. He responds with “What’s so good about it?” The laugh track explodes, and I’m smiling. Now, just the act of smiling makes people feel good, and there is nothing wrong with that. However, when I catch myself having been manipulated by a faked social environment, I resent it.
@Kingdaddy: The Marx brothers would’ve been proud of that one. Naked Gun crew would’ve been proud of this one too, I suspect.
Looks like there’ll be plenty more Epstein stories for our continuing sleaze parade.
I won’t bother linking to one story. It’s an explosion of lurid news straight from Air Force One.
@Daryl: I’m entirely onboard with Trump releasing the Epstein files so we can all see how Amazingly Guilty our former President is. And how Amazingly Innocent our current President.
Or someone could just start asking the victims. I think several have stated that Trump had sex with them when they were underage and being pimped out by Trump’s Good Friend.
@Gustopher:
Anyone that cheats at golf is likely also a child molester.
@Daryl:
While I have been accused of many heinous acts (& crimes), the one I’ve never been accused of is cheating at golf. But in all honesty, my golf game has been judged a war crime, and I am legally prohibited from golfing on 6 continents.
@steve222:
I strongly suspect anyone who loved Roxanne would enjoy another Steve Martin flick, “All of me”.
@Kylopod: im sure I’ve recommended this countless times before, but anyone who is a really big fan of Airplane! should watch Zero Hour.
And by “really big fan,” I mean “has watched it so many times that you’re anticipating the jokes.”
Airplane! is a remake of this movie, but this movie is no comedy. It takes itself very, very seriously. There’s so much comedic tension in setting up jokes and never once paying them off. Whole speeches are there, word for word,
It’s humor of the unexpected, where the expected is a punchline. It’s all the straight man.
@Gustopher: I haven’t seen it, but I am well aware of the fact that Airplane is nothing more than a comedic remake of the 1950s film. A lot of people aren’t aware of it, and there’s a misconception that it was primarily a spoof of the Airport films (which did serve as part of the inspiration, and the reason why George Kennedy was later in The Naked Gun was that they’d wanted him for Airplane but he turned it down).
@Kylopod:
A case can be made Airplane! benefited from the Airport films, and to be fair from earlier, less well known now, air crash and disaster films, including perhaps even Zero Hour 😉
So maybe it was not a direct spoof of the airport franchise, but it was part of the air disaster movie trend. And some elements were taken from the Airport films, like the transplant patient aboard, or the guy with the bomb in the second Airplane! movie.
@Kathy: I kind of wonder if anyone went into the theater thinking they were seeing another Airport sequel.
Re who’s on first. In the mid 1980s there was a radio ad for an upcoming concert in Worcester Ma featuring The Who. Another band touring at the time was Yes.
So something like this.
Hey, who’s playing at the Centrum?
Yes.
Yes is playing at the Centrum?
No, Who is.
Etc, etc
@Joe:
This is why I have a lot of respect for comedians who tour regularly. Even if they change the jokes, or put new ones in the rotation, it’s inevitable that there’s going to be a fair amount of repetition. I do understand that the audience in L.A. one night will be different from the sudience in say Detroit a few nights later, but still the comedian has to deliver the material in a way that doesn’t come off as mailing it in. It has to seem fresh, have the energy.
An aside, the same goes for musicians. It’s got to feel like an honest performance everytime you go out there.