Majority Of Brits Now Say They Have No Religious Affiliation
The latest version of an annual poll of British social attitudes brings news of a rather surprising change over the past twenty-five years:
Every year, researchers from the British Social Attitudes survey ask a representative sample of British people whether they regard themselves as belonging to any particular religion and, if so, to which one? When the survey first asked these questions in 1985, 63% of the respondents answered that they were Christians, compared with 34% who said they had no religion (the rest belonged to non-Christian religions).
Today, a quarter of a century on, there has been a steady and remarkable turnaround. In the latest 2010 BSA report, published earlier this month, only 42% said they were Christians while 51% now say they have no religion. Admittedly, some other surveys – including the last census – have produced different findings on these issues, usually to the advantage of the religious option. There is also a margin of error in all such exercises. All the same, and particularly since the trends in opinion over time seem well set, it is hard not to feel that this latest finding marks a cultural watershed.
This Christmas, for perhaps the first time ever, Britain is a majority non-religious nation.
While it may be surprising to see religious attitudes change this quickly, it seems to mostly be a reflection of the increased secularization of the European world, which has occurred at a far faster pace than it has in the United States, as reflected in church attendance statistics (which are interesting in themselves in that they show that the only Western countries with majority church attendance are Ireland, South Africa, Poland, and Puerto Rico). There is, however, some irony in this considering that one of Queen Elizabeth’s many titles is Defender Of The Faith. There doesn’t seem to be much to defend anymore.
The Guardian observes:
What is more striking about the survey is how quickly the change has come – just a generation. It is not that long since everything shut on Sundays, since a majority went regularly to church of some sort, since all schoolchildren knew and sang hymns and studied the Bible even if they did not believe in it, and since the idea that public figures could be anything other than observantly Christian would have seemed unthinkable. It would be hard to say, by most yardsticks, that those were better times. They were certainly different ones. The direction of change is likely to continue. We must all get used to it.
It will come to America too, so we should take that advice to heart.
Yep, it’s a paradigm shift, to resurrect that old phrase.
Religion comes from early brainwashing, er, indoctrination. Or, okay, call it education. Of a peculiar sort. Fewer people attend church — even if they believe — so their kids get less indoctrination.
Add to this the fact that religion generally has doubled down on stupid lately, becoming more identified with extremism, various criminal behaviors and anti-factual nonsense like creationism, it falls out of fashion. Intelligent people come to feel ridiculous identifying with nuts.
Changes in fashion can occur with sudden, brutal speed. We’re just a few years behind. But already you can see shocking changes. 20 years ago as a kid writer I’d have been discouraged from identifying myself as an atheist. Now it’s a big shrug.
nature abhors a vacuum. the assertion that england will stay a non religious nation is silly on the face of it. what will happen is the strong horse will fill the gap.
islam will eventually through carrot and stick good cop bad cop leverage itself into the religion of england and subjugate all.
I thought this Economist article on African “Nollywood” films was interesting in general, but it touches on the increasing strength of evangelical Christianity on that continent.
All of this is very interesting, what it really does is identify the fact that the churches have moved away from real Christianity and have taken on a rigid form of boredom. Real Christianity is fabulous, it is the most amazing experience that anyone could ever have, mock if you want but until you try it you will never understand. There is a comment by Paul the apostle that say’s, “thinking themselves wise they become fools”, I am afraid people, that he was correct. Not one of you hated the church more than I did, but now “wow”, I would not change it for anything. Seeing people healed of sicknesses, filled with the Holy Spirit thats real life. None the less I still believe that the old saying, “there are very few atheists on the death bed”, still holds true.
rumcrook:
Thanks for stopping by. We’re getting tired of our usual wingnuts and could use some new blood.
Michael – You are very self assured and full of self serving confidence but time will be the big revealer of truth. I feel sorry for you eternity is one hell of a long time.
Sum up Ezra’s posts…..
Blah Blah..no true Christian..Blah blah
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman
“I feel sorry for you eternity is one hell of a long time.”
That was mighty Christian of you…
Ezra:
On the one hand: eternity in heaven with tedious, brick-headed drips like you.
On the other hand, eternity in hell with every intellectual, free-thinker, carouser, artist and willing woman.
Oooh. Decisions, decisions.
The only thing mitigating against this happening in the United States is immigration, especially the huge waves coming from Latin America. Ironically, while much of the Tea Party crowd fears this will ruin our cultural identity, it’s the most likely source of keeping us a “Christian nation.” Oh, and paying for Social Security and Medicare.
Christianity is not the same as the “Christianity” that is portrayed by politicians and the nuts you see and hear about in the news. Christianity is a beautiful religion that teaches it’s followers to love our neighbors regardless of how they treat us, and to forgive those who abuse us even if they are unwilling to change. Christianity is not about warmongering, protesting outside of gay/military funerals, or bombing abortion clinics. This is a gross, sad, and embarrassing perversion of the faith. True Christianity is a dedication of one’s life to love and helping the poor, the homeless, the sick, and the downtrodden but no for our own personal gain. God has given us eternal life, so now it is time to pay Him back by allowing His work to be done through us.
It is very easy to deny that there is a God who loves you and wants you to spend eternity with Him. It is easy because who would want to give up a life of sex, drugs, and self-righteousness to hang out at the local homeless shelter or to pack up and do missionary work in a country that doesn’t have wireless access? What athiests don’t understand is that whatever they value in this life, and whatever they find pleasure in – take Mr. Reynolds , who values intellectualism, art, and willing women – is nothing compared to what can and will be received in Heaven. It is said that the rewards we will receive in Heaven are too far beyond human comprehension to even begin speculating on.
Atheism is for the lazy, the impatient, the proud, and the ignorant. They are quick to criticize something about which they know little-to-nothing beyond what they read and hear. They are impatient because they cannot wait a lifetime to receive an eternity of rewards far greater than any Earthly pleasure. They are proud because they hold themselves to be gods, who are incapable of any wrong doing. And they are ignorant because due to their laziness in understanding what any organized religion is actually about – here, Christianity – they presume that they are all the same and that their own ideas are vastly superior.
Regardless, Christians are no better than athiests. Both are sinners, and God abhors all sin. The only thing separating a believer from an athiest is that believers have acknowledged the sin in their lives and desire to change it. Furthermore, believers have acknowledged that while all sin and fall short of the glory of God, He is a God who wants to forgive us so that we can spend eternity with Him. If we place our faith in Him – believing that Jesus is the Son of God, that He died on the cross for the forgiveness of our sins, and after three days rose from the grave thus defeating death itself – we are saved. Being a Christian is to be humbled daily.
Hmm,
Too bad Jesus keeps finding people. It’s like we can’t stop the guy!
An Interested Party says:
“I feel sorry for you eternity is one hell of a long time.”
That was mighty Christian of you…
Maybe it is mighty Christian of me, It would appear that you are qualified in knowing what the rules of Christianity are, or at least you think you do. Surely if a person has experienced in life what I have experienced then surely it would be non Christian to not at least attempt to bring reality to the fore. I have been involved in a large number of demonic deliverances, please understand that if what I have seen in my work is what a person will experience beyond death without knowledge of his or her salvation then I am obliged to tell as many as I can of the true dangers of leaving this life without Christ. To not know Christ will not be cool, I promise you your friends will not be with you.
This is a very interesting article of a trend occurring in Britain under a female Church leader the Queen of England. The Bible says that women are not to be the teachers of men. A more interesting article or a follow-up would show that if the current trend continues towards Islam in Britain in what year will the Brits be mostly Moslem. Once they are mostly Moslem they can then institute Sharia law. For example, 2059? 2067? All one has to do is to do the math. It does not appear that Prince Charles considered to be an adulterer with respect to his marriage to Princess Diana will do anything to enhance Christianity once he becomes King. Tony Blair left the whole Blimey Anglican Church which has embraced homosexuality here in the states via the Episcopalian Church.
Reality is a question in regards to notes above as to whether it is all just an illusion as DesCartes put forth and resolved not possible. Or the 2nd possibility being that this reality has always been which is not possible as according to the laws of logic being that “Everything that came to be had a cause” incorrectly interpreted by the atheist Bertrand Russell. Of course all atheists always present positions contrary to the universal laws of logic as presented in University studies. Even Charlie Darwin presented in his classic Origin of Species that there had to be a Creator. So the 3rd possibility is that this reality as we know it was created by either a self-existent Being (God) or something (the pantheistic nothing in particular). Christianity presents the only rationalistic alternative of empirical evidence. And yes they have found dinosaur bones coated with blood vessels so how could tissue such as this exist for 84 million, billion, zillion years according to the findings of modern science. As to Christian comments: Please don’t argue with foolish questionings just state the applicable apologetics.
michael reynolds says:
Ezra:
On the one hand: eternity in heaven with tedious, brick-headed drips like you.
On the other hand, eternity in hell with every intellectual, free-thinker, carouser, artist and willing woman.
Michael, I have been where you are, very good job, very high pay, well educated etc. thinking that one has the cat by the tail. Probably think that this world is all that there is, i.e. wine women and song, so get out of it as much as you can. If this is how you think, it is not I who is the brick head it is yourself. Carry on as you are, no one is trying to stop you, everyone has a free choice in this life but not in the second one. If you are as you quote, intellectually inclined, and if you are interested; there is a book written by the head surgeon in the Chicago heart hospital, his name is Dr. Rawlings, he wrote a book of his experiences when bringing people back from death on the operating table, it is called, “Life After Death”, very interesting but also very true. Your choice, perhaps you are not courageous enough to read it as it may shatter your world.
Ezra:
I’m sure you’re a nice person. But you are trying to punch way above your weight. I’ve been debating religious types since I was a teenager. Many more evidently intelligent than you. I never lose. Never. Not even a little. It’s not because I’m so smart but because you have nothing.
When I say nothing I mean precisely that: nothing.
I already know every argument you can advance. Believe me when I say that I could do a much better job of presenting your arguments than you can yourself. And I probably know a few you don’t.
None of them amount to anything. Any reasonably bright Philosophy 101 student can blow them apart. You have vapor.
It’s called faith because that’s what’s required. Don’t try to argue the point as if you had evidence. You don’t. Or logic. You don’t. What you have is a willingness to suspend disbelief and simply assert your faith. Which is fine. But don’t waste your time trying to move faith into the sphere of reason. It doesn’t work. Ever. Not even a tiny bit.
Michael you are probably right I may not be the most intelligent person on earth but I have none the less seen many incredible things. But that aside your statement, “But don’t waste your time trying to move faith into the sphere of reason. It doesn’t work. Ever. Not even a tiny bit.” It is strange that you should consider such a thing, but Jesus Christ Himself told the Jews, “If you do not believe My words then believe on the miracles themselves”. I would suggest that even He was moving faith into reason. Anyway you go your way and I will go mine, I wish you all the best in your walk, I hope it works out for you, and by the way I have everything! you are the one with nothing.
I have to agree with rumcrook. The next generations will grow up under that secularism and rebel against it, and probably will choose Islam over a weak High-church Anglicanism. Not so much due to PC or good/bad cop, but because Islam has more vitality.
The de facto atheism I see in Britain always strikes me as an educated thing, sort of the way a nominal liberal Anglicanism used to be. It’s much less satisfying for people dealing with real problems at different income levels.
If we are writing here taking “High Anglican” as the bell weather of our discussion and comparing Christianity with dead rituals and weird clothes then I see where Michael is coming from. As mmomisanthrope says, “Islam has more vitality”. Islam has no vitality at all, it is just a morbid set of rules that just happen to be more restrictive and violent than everyone else’s. Are people really interested in being placed in a straight jacket of hate and violence praying towards some big black stone in Arabia. If a person wishes to find out about reality search out what real Christianity is. When I left the UK over forty years ago I hated the church and considered it to be nothing but hypocrisy and literally cursed the ground churches were built on. Fortunately I had an incredible experience and realised that I had been lied to. Despite what others may think, real Christianity is truly exciting and fulfilling. I know because I have tried everything else including wine women and song, its fun at times but does not fill empty voids. As Voltaire said, “In every man there is a God shaped vacuum that only God can fill”, he was right.
Titus 3:9-11 (New International Version, ©2010)
“9 But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless. 10 Warn a divisive person once, and then warn them a second time. After that, have nothing to do with them. 11 You may be sure that such people are warped and sinful; they are self-condemned.”
Such people do not seek heaven and God does not want them in His heaven. An atheist is trying to prove a universal negative that God does not exist which is impossible and they know that so what is the use of arguing with them as they are not agnostic. They know exactly what they are doing so the question is do their statements come from them or the evil one so what is it worth to argue. What did Jesus say at Matthew 7:21-23 Jesus said, “Not everyone who calls out to me, ‘Lord! Lord!’ will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Only those who actually do the will of my Father in heaven will enter. On Judgment Day MANY will say to me, ‘Lord! Lord! We Prophesied in your Name and cast out demons in your Name and performed many miracles in your Name.’ But I will reply, ‘I never knew you. Get away from me, you who break God’s Laws.”
Doug:
No. Incorrect. An atheist is saying that 1) you have no proof that God exists, and 2) given the magnitude of the proposed phenomenon such proof should be plentiful, and 3) given the prima facie unlikelihood of the phenomenon the burden of proof should be high.
In other words: ya don’t know what you’re talking about.
But at least you’re not the hate-mongering bigot Ezra is.
Ezra:
Know how easy it is to demonstrate your abject ignorance of Islam? I can do it was a Cracked article. http://www.cracked.com/article_18911_5-ridiculous-things-you-probably-believe-about-islam.html
I love that you try to justify your ecstatic experience by shitting on someone else’s religion. How very Christian.
“To not know Christ will not be cool, I promise you your friends will not be with you.”
So this is what your faith boils down to? Threatening what will happen to others if they don’t believe as you do? Also very Christian…
You know what’s depressing about these creatures is that their threats and dire warnings and hatred of all who disagree with them is in such contrast to some of the real Christians I know. What a shame that some of the genuinely good, dare I say saintly, Christians end up tarred by association with clowns like this.
Dear Michael Reynolds: I was not talking to you but of course this is a public forum and we do have freedom of speech so say whatever you like. Get it out if it makes you feel good. Yet remember Michael that Christians are not punching bags and we do not live in a place like Iraq where they kill Christians. Christians have been persecuted since Jesus was nailed to the cross. My point is to the Christian who may be baited by your anger and aggression. All threats and dire warnings do not come from the Christian but rather from the One who made them who is Christ, so the issue is not with the Christian but with the Christ. Yet as you an unbeliever can become depressed as you state above so can a Christian and unfortunately the cause of the depression for the Christian can be recognized wherein they feel misfortune for you yet sometimes they often feel that it is not even you but the evil one being Satan who is misleading you. I was an unbeliever myself for 20 years and can identify with your anger and depression which you feel from an empathetic standpoint. My only cure was to read the Bible cover to cover, study creation science, read Darwin’s Origin of Species, read the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, read Hitler’s Mein Kampf, read the Communistic Manifesto, study the foolishness of Hugh Hefner and his Playboy magazine and all of the so called hedonistic pleasures all of which gave me the ability to discern the TRUTH. I also asked that same question in regards to the plentifulness of proof and the burden of proof especially having served in the capacity of being a USA Federal Agent wherein everybody always lied to me whereupon I finally realized the answer to your question. It was right there staring me in the face like the Stepford Wives. It came in (2) parts. First that the evidence was there in Jesus Christ and many did not believe it then and they wouldn’t believe it now as he gave plentiful evidence all of which is recorded for all of the skeptics who took Philosophy 101 to deny. Ah but then the Part 2 which is the fly in the ointment as for 20 years I used to say as an agnostic, “Show me a miracle right now in front of my face and then I’ll believe.” At that moment I finally felt an inner understanding as explained by theodicy which means the manner of explaining, understanding and justifying God’s relationship with man as opposed to man’s relationship with God. You see I was just like you looking at it from man’s perspective and not God’s perspective. Once I through all of the emotional gifts from God away, all of the senses for aposteriori evidence aside I finally looked through my new rose colored glasses and realized and recognized that other gift for which millions upon millions have died for on the battlefield which is God’s gift of freewill. If God would show me this miracle that I asked for I would no longer be the “being” for which I am now therefore He couldn’t and can’t leave too much evidence. Yet being an Apologist I readily admit that I cannot produce a miracle for you as you demand by your statement above which is unlike your lack of admission that atheism is an illogical belief since you cannot prove a universal negative. To prove God doesn’t exist you would have to go throughout the universe and turn over every pebble, leaf, sift all the grams of dirt, etc. etc. and you still could not prove that God doesn’t exist as Atheism claims because God could have moved to another location while you were looking somewhere else. So to prove God doesn’t exist you would have to have the powers of God’s Being which is different than our being as God is Omnipotent, Omnipresent, and Omniscient. So God proved His existence empirically via Jesus which is aposteriori evidence. Further if you consider the law of cause and effect there had to be a cause for this reality which is apriori evidence reflecting an irrational argument on your part. So epistemologically that is why there are now over 2,000,000,000 Christians and even past that point there are more than 1,000,000,000 Moslems who have accepted the evidence you reject. The point I made to the others of not arguing with you is that certain people have had certain things happen in their life which could be your situation for which we don’t know why you disbelieve in addition you may have committed such a horrendous sin you could never be reconciled to an attonement with God. We don’t know your life history. For all we know you could have been a pedophile victim of some Catholic priest and spend your days letting your anger out in a passive agressive manner arguing with Christians to release your tension. You no doubt are interested in stirring the pot by making a comment such as “Religion comes from early brainwashing, er, indoctrination.” which is your belief system knowing full well as you open up on this blog that Christians will read it and be insulted that someone would think that they are brainwashed and that only a fool would believe. If you read the DSM it explains that a mental disorder involves someone who has trouble functioning as to having friends etc. so that if you go around telling 3,000,000,000 people they are brainwashed it is a serious problem. One would think if you were genuine that you might start a conversation out with something like, “Well I don’t believe for such and reason” as opposed to as I paraphrase telling someone they are an idiot. Again I did not mean to address this to you as I was speaking to the Christians but since you did address me I felt the necessity to respond. Have a nice day.
Doug:
Apologies. I had not realized I’d engaged a mentally disturbed person.
Carry on.
This message is not for Michael Reynolds but rather to my fellow Christian following this thread in regards to witnessing on the internet to an unbeliever. Jesus gave His beatitudes while delivering His sermon on the mount of Olives in which He stated, “Blessed are those who are persecuted and reviled for my name sake for which all manner of evil is spoken against for theirs is truly the Kingdom of Heaven.” In remembering those words when someone heaps evil upon you by calling you names for witnessing to them you are of course shielded by the protection of the Lord but you must consider if it is the best way to pursue the work of the Lord. Evangelism is often preceded by what is referred to as pre-Evangelism wherein one gets involved often in the area of Apologetics. The internet although it does provide you with anonymity thus allowing you to witness without inhibition is not necessarily the best place to take up witnessing but most especially with an unbelieving Gentile. In order to properly witness one must be equipped otherwise you are like an auto mechanic trying to fix a car without tools. The internet being a place which provides you with anonymity also provides the unbeliever a place of anonymity. If you are properly equipped you can frame the individual you are witnessing to via their category of belief, disbelief, being a person of another belief or that of being a skeptic. When dealing with a person who is of a frame of mind of disbelief such as an atheist you must determine whether that person is hostile to belief or still curious. It’s like the skeptical agnostic with the question of whether they are an ordinary agnostic who simply says, “I don’t know” or are they an ornery agnostic who within their skepticism says, “Hey look, I don’t know if God exists or not but I would also say that no one can ever really know for such and such reason”. Many people who claim to be atheistic are really agnostic. The word atheist if you take it apart breaks down into the letter “a” and then “theist” wherein the letter “a” = without and the word “theist” = God so that they are without God. With the word agnostic you have again “a” = without and then “gnostic” which is from “gnosis” which = to know so that in regards to the issue of God they are simply stating that they don’t know. Now it is illogical from the rules of logic to state that God does not exist because to make such a statement is the making of a universal negative whereas with an agnostic as I was you have to get to the root of their position. Most atheists and agnostics are to a point like a high school or middle school dropout in that they quit their belief at an early age when attending Sunday school as forced by their parent or guardian. I was at that level of knowledge when I was drafted into the Army and sent to fight in the war in Vietnam. After nearly being killed 5 times while in combat and seeing many others in body bags I began to lose my faith which was backed up by a limited knowledge as I was also a Sunday School dropout. I had never studied philosophy or apologetics or evangelism so my faith had no back bone. Then after the war I started going to College and had a Philosophy Instructor who was anti-Christian. Between her pollution and the war I lost my faith and it took me 20 years to come back to the point of taking on an intellectual challenge to determine whether as an adult I should believe or not. I was never an Atheist nor an ornery Agnostic. I was an ordinary Agnostic. Before I completed the intellectual challenge I was already a believer again after 20 years. The point is that I was never hostile in discussions. I would listen with politeness. So while we are on the Internet we have to make quick decisions about the person we are speaking to and pick up on the undertones of their body language which we cannot see. These points come out within their adjectives as they justify their disbelief. If they become as a bully with braggart remarks that they are an atheist the internet is not a forum for witness with this type of individual as they are engaging in the psychological format of The Games People Play which could be at the expense of another listener. I learned this many years ago when I got kicked off an Atheist/Agnostic chatroom with Prodigy by the leader of the group as all I could surmise from the incident was that I was making some inroads with some of the ordinary agnostics.
So these are the instructions from our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ as reflected in the book of Matthew Chapter 10: ” 5 These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: “Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. 6 Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel. 7 As you go, proclaim this message: ‘The kingdom of heaven has come near.’ 8 Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy,[a] drive out demons. Freely you have received; freely give. 9 “Do not get any gold or silver or copper to take with you in your belts— 10 no bag for the journey or extra shirt or sandals or a staff, for the worker is worth his keep. 11 Whatever town or village you enter, search there for some worthy person and stay at their house until you leave. 12 As you enter the home, give it your greeting. 13 If the home is deserving, let your peace rest on it; if it is not, let your peace return to you. 14 If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, leave that home or town and shake the dust off your feet. 15 Truly I tell you, it will be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town. 16 “I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves.
Note that these instructions were in reference to other Jews and within the context of the Internet you are dealing with Gentiles who have the hardened heart of an out of the closet Atheist who may even have a chip on his/her shoulder against Christians from some misperceived act which occurred previously in their life. It serves no purpose to discuss Sodom and Gomorrah with them as they don’t even believe these judgments by God upon these cities occurred. It is like trying to tell an Atheist that God exists because God says so in the Bible which from a standpoint of logic is a circular argument and thus a logical fallacy. Also the miracles that were performed 2,000 years ago were to convert unbelievers 2,000 years ago not unbelievers of today. You know God exists epistemologically because you have examined all the evidence and your heart has not been hardened. A few comments on the internet to a heart hardened atheist isn’t going to change anything. So what is left? The issue of guilt. You can’t save anyone as only the Holy Spirit can do that although the Holy Spirit may use you. Being a Calvinist I follow the teachings of the scripture regarding predestination in that God elects whom He wishes to save. God knows whom he wishes to save. There is no special club or group of Evangelists who pursue the heart hardened atheists on the internet. It doesn’t exist.
“For many are called, but few [are] chosen.” (Matthew 22:14, KJV)
“Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will,…” (Eph. 1:3-5, NASB)
“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.” (Jeremiah 1:5 NIV)
I could go on and on but you can do your own study of predestination. God doesn’t elect everyone and that is a simple fact.
No reply necessary. May the peace of God be with you.