The Kaitlyn Hunt Case: Teenage Romance Or Sexual Predator?
A case in Florida raises serious questions about the application of our sex offender laws.
Coming out of Florida, there’s a case that seems to epitomize all at once the problems with our sex offender laws, the sometimes non-sensical manner in which our laws and our culture continue to treat the issue of teenage sexuality, and the ongoing fact of bias against homosexuality that is still a major factor in many parts of the country. It involves the case of Kaitlyn Hunt, an 18 year old Florida High School student who faces felony charges over her relationship with a 14 year old fellow student who happens to be female:
An 18-year-old American is facing felony charges over claims that she had sexual contact with her underage girlfriend, prompting gay rights advocates to say she is being unfairly targeted for a common high-school romance because she is gay.
The criminal case against Kaitlyn Hunt is unusual because it involves two females, not an older male and a younger female. But advocates say older high schoolers dating their younger counterparts is an innocuous, everyday occurrence that is not prosecuted – regardless of sexual orientation – and not a crime on a par with predatory sex offences.
Hunt played on the basketball team with her younger girlfriend and shared the same circle of friends in Sebastian, Florida, said Hunt’s mother, Kelley Hunt Smith.
The two had a consenting relationship that began soon after Hunt turned 18, and Hunt Smith said she assumed the younger girl’s parents knew that. The younger girl was 14 when the relationship began, and is now 15.
Hunt was kicked off the basketball team near the end of last year after the coach learned of the relationship because players were not allowed to date each other, her parents said. Then, in February, she was charged with lewd and lascivious battery on a child aged 12 to 16. The day before she was arrested, police and the younger girl’s parents secretly recorded a phone conversation in which the two girls discussed kissing in the school bathroom, said Hunt’s father, Steve Hunt.
“It’s horrible. For my daughter’s sexual preferences, she’s getting two felony charges. It could possibly ruin her future,” he said.
The alleged victim is identified only by her initials in court documents, and her parents have not been publicly identified.
Prosecutors have offered a plea deal to Hunt that would allow her to avoid registering as a sex offender if she pleads guilty to lesser charges of child abuse. The state attorney Bruce Colton said he would recommend two years of house arrest followed by one year of probation if she took the deal.
Earlier this week, Hunt rejected the plea deal and she’s currently scheduled to go to trial in June. If she’s convicted, she faces the possibility of up to ten years in prison as well as being required to register as a sex offender, an outcome that would most assuredly seriously impact her ability to start any kind of life in her 20s. It’s worth noting here that there is absolutely no allegation that Hunt forced the younger woman involved in this incident to do anything and that the entire affair, including any sexual activity that may have occurred, appears to have been entirely consensual. As is often the case when dealing with a relationship between someone who’s over 18 and someone who isn’t, however, that hardly matters. The mere fact of the age difference and the fact that one of the people involved is under 18 is enough for her to be subject to being charged. Although it’s not what she’s being charged with, it is analogous to a Statutory Rape law. In this particular case, though, there is potentially a way out for Hunt in the form of what are known as a “Romeo & Juliet” law:
Florida has a “Romeo and Juliet” law that could spare Kaitlyn from being labeled a sex offender for the rest of her life if she is convicted.
“The law as I see it is set up for protection of kids that are in that age bracket,” said Kelly Hunt-Smith, the alleged offender’s mother.
The “Romeo and Juliet” law has certain criteria that must be met in order to be applied.
The victim must be at least 14-years-old, have consented to a relationship and the accused can be no more than four years older than their alleged victim.
The latest Statistic shows 241 petitions under the “Romeo and Juliet” law have been granted. Of those granted, four have come from along the Treasure Coast.
“It shouldn’t matter if it’s a boy-girl, girl-girl, or boy-boy situation,” said legal analyst Michelle Suskauer.
Kaitlyn’s mother Kelly Hunt-Smith said she believes the “Romeo and Juliet” law should be applied if it comes to that. She insists her daughter did nothing illegal.
“You don’t think about that. Your kid is in high school and they’re dating mutual classmates, you don’t think about it being wrong or illegal,” said Hunt-Smith.
It’s important to note that Florida’s “Romeo & Juliet” law is not a defense to the underlying charge. Even if it’s found that she qualifies for protection under it, Hunt still faces the possibility of being convicted of the charges against her, serving time in prison, and having a criminal record that will follow her around for the rest of her life. What she would avoid if she’s found eligible for protection under the law is the requirement that she register as a sex offender for the rest of her life. (The State of Florida has a good summary of the “Romeo & Juliet” law here [PDF]) Given the social stigma such registration can have on a person’s life and their ability to have any kind of decent life and career, that’s no small benefit though.
As Jazz Shaw notes in his post about this case today, the Hunt case raises several issues and several questions, many of which I’m not sure that people are always that comfortable talking about. Without question, we do want to have laws that protect children from being taken advantage of by people older than them. That’s why statutory rape and other laws that deal with sexual contact between adults and minors exist. These laws presume that young people are generally not always capable of granting fully informed consent and that they are often easily manipulated by adults into doing things that they might not otherwise do. Making the age of 18 a bright line or such laws isn’t always fair or logical, and indeed many states have adopted laws that lower the actual age of consent to 17 or even 16 in certain circumstances, but it’s as good a line as any other one we could come up with.
At the same time, though, there is a danger that such laws can go too far and ensare in their nets relationships that, for the most part, are entirely commonplace and not necessarily objectionable. High school romances are nothing new, and high school romances between older and younger students are quite common. In the end, is there really any difference between the relationship between Hunt and her girlfriend and one between the star Quarterback of the school’s football team and a freshman girl? Objectively, the answer to that question is quite obviously no. Subjectively, then, one has to wonder if the fact that Hunt is a lesbian has anything to do with the fact that she is being so aggressively prosecuted in this particular case. This is an allegation that her family and supporters have made, and while the victim’s parents insist that it isn’t true I have to wonder if they would have been so aggressive in pursuing charges if the 18 year old their daughter was involved with was a fellow male student in the senior class. It doesn’t matter as far as the law is concerned, of course, but selective prosecution is certainly a concern here.
In his post, Jazz Shaw also points out that Florida’s laws seem to have a very bizarre contradiction in them:
Florida’s laws actually seem to blunder in the opposite direction when they provide relief for slightly older children.
s. 794.05, F.S., provides an age-gap provision that allows a 16 or 17 year-old to legally consent to sexual conduct with a person 16-23 years of age. The fact that an offender may not have known the age of the victim or the victim portrayed themselves to be older, cannot be used as a defense to prosecution under s. 800.04, F.S., or ch. 794, F.S. However, as provided in s. 921.0026, F.S., these facts can be offered at sentencing as mitigation for the court’s consideration.
So we wind up with a situation where a senior who has turned 18 and has a boyfriend or girlfriend who is a freshman (and we can really leave gender and homosexuality out of it for this part of the discussion) can wind up in jail for a decade and on the sex offender registry for life, but a 23 year old can go cruising the parking lots and get a 16 year old “girlfriend” to go back to their hotel if they “consent.”
If that’s not a sign that the laws are completely messed up, I don’t know what is.
The case of Kaitlyn Hunt raises many concerns, but the one that strikes me as the most important is the fact that, even while acknowledging that Hunt may have broken the law by having a sexual relationship with a person under 18, I cannot possibly see how it’s justice to throw the book at her. Up to a decade in prison? A lifetime on the sex offender registry? For what was, essentially a High School fling? If that’s what the laws of Florida are mandating, then perhaps someone needs to re-examine them because that just doesn’t make sense to me.
If homosexuals really believe in equality and really want to be treated equally, they will all be calling for equal application of the current laws. However, if homosexuals do not really believe in equality and are really on a long campaign for special rights and political power over heterosexuals, they will continue their push for treating lesbians and gay men separately and unequally.
This part of the story really bugs me. If an 18 year old showed up on my doorstep to date my 14 year old I’d bounce his or her so fast they’d leave a vapor trail.
When was the last time Florida sent an 18-year old male to jail for having consensual sex with a 14-year old female? That’s a relevant factual question that someone should be able to answer.
@superdestroyer: Repetition of the same nonsense won’t eventually make it true. And your utter ignorance of the discrimination against and disparate treatment of gays doesn’t mean those things don’t exist.
When people are treated as less-than simply because of an innate, in-born characteristic, it is wrong. Period. It has nothing to do with anyone wanting “special rights and political power” over anyone. It’s simply about human beings wanting to be treated the same as other human beings.
@Al: My cousin had a solution to issues like that. He’d invite the caller in, sit them down, and ask “So what are your intentions towards my daughter?”. All the while cleaning his shotgun with the leathers from the biker club he was a patch member of hanging on the door.
Greetings:
I so agree, we need to show or sexual dysfunctionals more consideration.
We have long passed the time when communal showers are enough reparation for the years of biased bias that those folks have suffered. I think that dating team members should be mandatory in order to help youngsters, say 12 and up, break through the discriminatory discriminations that have been inflicted on them by their indoctrinating parents and churches.
Enough I say. More homosex is the solution. Forward !!!
Doesn’t sound like the first time this has come up.
I think the lesbian aspect of this is just a distraction.
I don’t really agree with the way some of these statutory rape and sex offender registry laws are set up. But …
When my oldest son turned 18, you’d better believe that is a conversation we most definitely had … that he needed to date girls his own age.
Kaitlyn Hunt’s parents did her a huge disservice by not having the same conversation with her when she turned 18.
I’m not saying that what’s happening to her is any way “fair”, and I’m not saying that her sexual orientation probably didn’t have something to do with the fact that she was arrested. However, I seriously doubt we’d even be aware of, and discussing this case if Kaitlyn had been “Kevin”.
“{ and the ongoing fact of bias against homosexuality that is still a major factor in many parts of the country”
Oh bullshit. You are such a god damned hack. If anything, you want female homosexuality treated special.
If an 18 year old senior tried to date my 14 year old daughter I would report him to the police. It’s absolutely wrong.
“even while acknowledging that Hunt may have broken the law by having a sexual relationship with a person under 18,”
It was a 14 year old… this “under 18” minimization is rather pathetic.
The sexes of the individuals involved aside, I have to say that I’m really uncomfortable with giving legal sanction to relationships involving somebody 18 or older on the one hand, and 14 or younger on the other. It’s only four years of age difference, I know, but 14-year-olds just don’t seem to have the same level of judgment or maturity as 16-year-olds or 17-year-olds.
@Mikey:
Consideirng how affluent homosexuals are in the U.S. the claims of harms from discrimination ring hallow. Once again, it seems that homosexuals are heading down the same road that blacks and Hispanics have been down before. They want separate and unequal treatment for their subgroup. If homosexuals want to be treated for marriage (and divorce), then the same rules for statutory rape (or whatever the states call it) should apply. That the organized homosexuals community wants to be treated differently than heterosexuals speaks very loudly of their true agenda.
Mr. Mataconis, the law is the law. Letter and intent have been violated. When an adult ( that would be Ms. Hunt) initiates a sexual relationship with a minor (the 14 year old victim) that is a crime. The perp knew the vics age, do you deny that fact? Do you understand that this so-called ‘consensual’ relationship was not? The victim is not legally competent even now to give consent. You claim the law is broken, that is a valid debate that is worth having however it is irrelevant to the case at hand.
Consider: Might the victim have felt pressured into the act by the asserted popularity of Ms. Hunt? Children like the victim are not given to making the best decisions and are easily influenced by peer pressure. Might the fact that Ms. Hunt knew the age of the victim and disregarded the legality be an indication of an inclination to prey on children?
Disclosure: imho SO registries are a problem in and of themselves, once a convicts time has been served, their debt to society is paid.
Little note here, guys: the relationship started when one was 17 and the other was 14. When the arrest occurred, one was 18, the other was 15. In fact, they dated for awhile; the other parents didn’t cause any trouble until after she turned 18, and therefore could be arrested.
Now, please explain to me how this is a case of protecting a young, naive woman who was being ensnared by someone much older than she is. That’s not only factually untrue, but it’s not something that can be justified. If it walks and quacks like a duck, it’s a duck, and the parents of the other girl went after this woman because they didn’t approve of her being a lesbian. Period.
The fact that it’s making people reevaluate how stringent some of our statutory rape laws are is a bonus.
@Current Prosecutor: Are you stupid? Or just so buried in law texts that you aren’t thinking straight?
@superdestroyer:
Many African-Americans are relatively affluent. That doesn’t mean racism is dead, or discrimination no longer exists.
As I said, your ignorance of the discrimination to which gays are subjected doesn’t mean that discrimination does not exist. And the fact some gays are affluent doesn’t either. In fact, unequal treatment of gays is codified in Federal law (DOMA).
You’re not upset they want to be “treated differently.” You’re upset they want to be treated just like you.
@Christopher Bowen:
Do you have a cite of the ages and birth dates and ages. The older student supposedly turned 18 last August. This seems to be just a way to justify treating lesbians differently that heterosexuals.
In all its majesty Florida criminal law treats a dirty old lech trading candy with a toddler the same as a romance between kids in the same school. Adult-strength indelible penalties are wrong.
@Mikey:
If homosexuals wanted to be treated the same as everyone else, they would be calling for the prosecution of Ms. Hunt. That they are defending Ms. Hunt and want the law applied differently shows that homosexuals want seperate and unequal treatment. Just like homosexuals pushed for homosexual marriage without working out the idea of homosexual divorce.
Interesting that no one seems to be suggesting that maybe this is genuine love, and that age aside it is a hell of a thing to go around breaking up relationships.
In this case the law is an ass. And the parents of the 14 year-old were in no way compelled to take this to the police. There’s no suggestion of force or coercion. The parents admit as much when they say they spoke to the 18 year-old and asked her to end the relationship.
If they wanted the relationship to end — for any reason — they should have talked to their daughter who was apparently half of this consensual relationship. Now these people have humiliated and traumatized their daughter and endangered the 18 year old. For what? Because they couldn’t deal with their own daughter. Incompetent parenting is the cause of this.
@superdestroyer:
Did heterosexuals work out the idea of divorce before inventing the institution of marriage?
Duhhhhhhh. . . .
Please. They were both minors when this started. A 17 year old being interested in a 14 year old is not nefarious, it’s biology. For most of human history, no one would have thought twice about it.
When I was 18, the very hot 15 year old girl who lived a few apartments over was interested in me. Her dad called me in for a chat, and in a very nice way, explained that it was perfectly normal for teenagers with a few years age difference to be attracted to each other, but in this case, I was a legal adult who had a job and his own apartment, and she was a sophomore in high school. He wrapped it up by saying that she was not allowed to date anyone over 16, and if I did not respect that rule, he would have to get shitty about it.
It was a pretty slick piece of parenting, I always respected him after that.
Robert Stacy McCain’s been all over this story. Hunt turned 18 on August 14, 2012, which means she was already 18 before the victim entered high school. The incidents between her and the victim occurred between November 2012 and January 2013, when the 14-year-old ran away from home and stayed at Hunt’s home, where more sexual contact took place. Hunt was arrested on February 16, and the victim had her 15th birthday in April.
So, an 18-year-old met and seduced a 14-year-old, and aided and abetted in her delinquency, until the 14-year-old’s parents pressed criminal charges.
@soren:
@Salon: JerseyDevil – Saturday, May 25, 2013 05:40 PM +0200
The younger girl just turned 15 2 months ago.
The older girl is turning 19 in a 2.5 months.
“The relationship had been ongoing and the younger girl’s parents intentionally waited until Kaitlyn turned 18 before going to the police.”
I keep hearing this, but it does not make sense.
On the police affidavit Kate’s date of birth is given as August 1994.
This would make her 18 at the time the 2012-2013 school year started.
The affidavit states that they met in school, and began their relationship in November 2012.
If she was born in 8/1994 and they began their relationship in 11/2012….How can she have been 17 when they started dating?
Furthermore, the charges were filed in Feb 2013. This would not be ‘right after she turned 18’, as she had been 18 the entire time the relationship was going on, and had been 18 for over 6 months by the time the charges were filed.
The stories are not adding up here, and making me doubt one party’s honesty
@superdestroyer:
Kaitlyn Hunt’s Parents – Aiding and Abetting Their Daughter to Commit Statutory Rape?
A question that has not been addressed regarding this case* is the role of this predatory lesbian’s parents. By the little information that has been reported, they encouraged their daughter, Kaitlyn Hunt, to target and groom underage girls for homosexual exploitation and statutory rape – something we can presume many other liberals parents also do.
Whether Kaitlyn’s parents can be legally defined as “aiding and abetting” in these harmful actions is a question for the justice system. But in practice, that is exactly what they seem to have done by the information reported. Apparently they had knowledge that their daughter was targeting girls for homosexual activity, they think this is normal, they encouraged it, and they counseled her to do it if she wanted to. Moreover, they did not report their daughter to authorities after her alleged statutory rape. If this wasn’t enough, they adamantly want their daughter not to be prosecuted for the alleged statutory rape.
In other words, they want their daughter to commit statutory rape of girls, as often as she likes, targeting as many kids as she wants, with total impunity. It’s clear that people defending homosexual statutory rape clearly espouse morally corrupt views on sexuality and work to destroy protections ensured by the law against child sexual exploitation and perversion.
@Jenos Idanian:
Um, no.
If the 14 year-old ran away from home to stay at this girl’s house then the relationship obviously already existed, whether or not it had become physically sexual. You don’t run away from home to stay with a stranger. And if the gil ran away from home then there were evidently problems between her and her parents, quite possibly related to her interest in same sex relationships.
So, again: lousy parenting. And now these people have hurt their daughter as well as the other girl.
@Alessandra:
You’re just making things up.
If Robert Stacy McCain told me the sky was blue, I’d go outside to verify.
And that also assumes that McCain has the information about who the victim is, which should be sealed if I’m not mistake.
@michael reynolds: That’s what NAMBLA always claimed – true love!
@Mikey: How ignorant!
Everyone is born heterosexual.
http://alessandrareflections.wordpress.com/not-born-lgbt/
Is it possible to hold these two thoughts at the same time?
1) Some of these statutory rape laws, as applied to teenagers, probably need to be fixed.
2) However, the law as it’s now written appears to have been broken. I’m just guessing, but I’d bet that the “yes I did it, but it’s not fair you arrested me” defense probably doesn’t have a very high rate of success.
Again I place some blame with the parents (who I assume are advising their daughter) … taking the plea deal would most likely have been a smarter move than going to the press/Internet.
@Christopher Bowen:
considering that the parents of the victim have been giving interviews, I doubt if her identity is hidden. Once again, progressives are just making excuses for one of the their chosen groups.
@Alessandra:
Ah, so you’re an idiot. Fair enough.
@superdestroyer:
Police affidavit states:
Hunt had deformed lesbian “sex” with victim – since women with a homosexual problem are too psychological deformed to have sex with men, and for which the human body was designed. Hunt inserted other things/body parts into girl’s v0gina and had sex. It happened on more than one occasion. Kaitlyn affirmed that she did not think it was wrong to have sex with the girl “because girl acted older”!
Oh, and the lesbian pig wanted to be a nurse!
Two years in prison plus registered as a sex offender. Send a nice message to liberals that they cannot sexually exploit kids whenever they feel like it.
@michael reynolds:
So you are name-calling idiot. And what else is new?
Well, it does seem that the 18 year old started dating the younger girl when she was 14. If I was a parent of a 14 year old, I would not want her dating an 18 year old and would warn off the 18 year old if I knew of the relationship.
If I was the parent of the 18 year old, I would be telling him/her to stick to their age and introduce them to the term “jailbait”:
Still, don’t think this should be a matter for the criminal court
The arrest records clearly indicate the perpetrator was 18 the entire time of the crime. NAMBLA guy above, you’re kinda creepy. Please park the old van.
And just to remember – the girl Polanski raped was 13, only one year younger than the girl in this case.
and this NAMBLA mentality from liberals is disgusting. How hypocritical do you have to be to say that a teenager is not mature enough to vote for president (because, yes, age does matter), and they are mature enough to have sex?
If you aren’t mature enough to marry someone, how can you be mature enough to make the right decisions about sex? What kind of sex? Sex like pigs? Sure, that’s what liberals promote all the time. Sex with strangers, hookups, porn, abortion as a contraceptive method, sex with STD epidemics, and sex with minors…
That’s what we have today in society…
@Alessandra:
You are obviously – I clicked on your blog – obsessed by hatred for gay people. And you evidently believe that we are all straight but can be made gay. Which of course reveals that you believe you could be made gay. That your husband (if any) could be made gay. Which in turn goes to your evident belief that there must be something terribly attractive about gay sex.
Which of course brings us to your need for counseling.
Rather than turning your suppressed desires into a creepy Roy Cohn thing, why not ask yourself why you are so terrified of gays? I’m a straight guy and they don’t scare me at all. They don’t seem to scare most straight people. I dare say the vast majority of the straight people up-thread have zero fears of suddenly becoming gay.
But you, on the other hand, see gay-conversion around every corner, and under your bed, and in your closet.
The homosexual angle is completely irrelevant to the law. This is what we call a strawman.
My office would prosecute. We would win.
@Alessandra:
Wow! You seriously have problems. “Deformed lesbian ‘sex’?” “Lesbian pig?”, “liberals promote […] sex with strangers, hookups, porn, abortion as a contraceptive method, sex with STD epidemics, and sex with minors?”
Seriously, get mental help. Both women were young and there was clearly some poor judgement going on. Still, it’s really not that big of a deal. Teenagers are going to act like teenagers, and both young women will probably turn out fine.
You, on the other hand, are a different story. Your apparent obsession with, homosexuality, liberals, and sex is just bizarre, and your hateful rhetoric says a lot about you as a person. Calm down!
@michael reynolds:
I see that your name-calling idiocy continues…
@Alessandra:
I was wrong to call you an idiot. You are pretty clearly suffering from mental problems. I hope you get help and find some measure of peace.
I’m sure Mr. Mataconis would agree with 1 thing. If an individual is guilty of the criime turning down the plea is a bad idea. Now the prosecutor will most likely push to make an example of the perp. We don’t offer plea agreements then take rebuffs lightly.
@Jewelbomb:
Yeah, deformed lesbian sex. What about it? So psychologically deformed that they cannot establish a healthy, wholesome relationship with a man.
It’s not me who has serious problems, it’s people who have dysfunctional sexualities and who do not want to admit it. Only if you have profound psychological, social, and cultural problems are you going to develop a homosexuality problem.
Seriously, get mental help yourself.
You’re too ignorant about the etiology of homosexuality, but calling other people names won’t change that a bit.
Furthermore, what are you getting all nervous about criticism regarding how harmful liberal ideology is regarding sexuality?
Calm down yourself.
@michael reynolds:
I see that your name-calling idiocy still continues…
@Alessandra:
Erm…I didn’t call you any names. Look, there’s clearly no point in trying to reason with someone whose views are so strident. I don’t know why I tried. Your apparent obsession with other people’s sex lives strikes me as entirely healthy and not even a little bit weird. Enjoy your day.
@superdestroyer: Hunt shouldn’t be prosecuted because the law is stupid, not because she’s gay. I would have exactly the same opinion if she were male.
How would “homosexual divorce” be any different from “heterosexual divorce?” If the law is blind to sexual orientation, divorce is divorce regardless.
One thing we can be sure of – there is a significant percentage of conservatives that go berserk if anyone, anywhere, has sex.
@Alessandra:
I’m not remotely nervous. We’ve already won on gay rights.
People like you are like the last few crazy Japanese soldiers who hid in caves on Okinawa long after the war was over and we were happily importing Toyotas. Fascinating pathology for those who enjoy studying the links between mental illness and politics, but not so much threatening as cringe-inducing.
@Jewelbomb:
Erm… two things that you wrote:
“Seriously, get mental help. ”
“your hateful rhetoric says a lot about you as a PERSON.”
Personal ad hominem attacks. Same thing as “calling names.”
So, not only are you making personal attacks, offensive and uncivil, honesty about what you are doing is also not your forte.
A liberal, of course!
@anjin-san:
Recalls the famous Mencken quote:
@Mikey:
Because divorce is different if the parents are not the biological parents. How does Alimony work is both are women or men? There have already been media reports of states struggling with homosexual divorce. See about the issues of elite wealthy hipster homosexuals getting divorced. http://www.theatlanticwire.com/national/2012/06/after-gay-marriage-comes-gay-divorce/53829/
@Alessandra:
Yes, because calling people “pigs” is so much more civil.
@superdestroyer:
Yes, we’ll have to make some minor adjustments to existing law. So?
@Christopher Bowen:
This … also has some truth.
@michael reynolds: wrote: Yes, because calling people “pigs” is so much more civil.
………………………….;
You’re the one calling me idiot, crazy, Japanese soldier? That’s so civil.
If a person is doing harm and committing crimes related to sexuality, and degrading and debasing other people, along with every notion and attitude about sexuality, I can’t call them sexual pigs?
On what planet?
So if a person murders another person, I can’t call them a murderer?
I can’t call Frank Lombard, who adopted two toddlers so that he could rape them every night a pig? A monster? I can’t call Roman Polanski a pig? I can’t call Kaitlyn a pig? I can’t call people promoting the sexual exploitation of teens pigs?
You’re wrong. What this case brings out is that Americans hate to face all the problems in society regarding sexuality, especially homosexuality.
I believe many of you missed the point of the article in it’s entirety. I find it disturbing the ignorance of soceity as a whole. Not one of those of you who are anti Kaitlyn feel compelled to hold Florida accountable for allowing an 18 year old to both 1. Attend a public school with – gasp – minors, and 2. Play on the same sports team with them – oh my!
Ignorance is bliss, however, so continue to wring your paws over this nothingness meant only to destroy Ms. Hunt.
When Injustice Becomes Law Rebellion Becomes Duty. THOMAS JEFFERSON
@Alessandra:
Now you’re just being silly. Telling you to “get mental help” and pointing out that your hateful rhetoric says a lot about you does not constitute calling you names. Further, your comments are little more than seething ad hominem attacks against both gays and liberals. Cognitive dissonance…how does it work?
@superdestroyer: That article doesn’t actually support your assertion. What it does indicate is how the lack of marriage equality nationwide causes problems if gay married couples decide to divorce.
I’m sure you’ll come up with another float for your parade of horribles, though.
@Mikey: You are correct, Mikey. It’s called “isonomy”.
@Jewelbomb: I think what you’re seeing is an illustration of the following principle:
“It’s impossible to reason someone out of an opinion they didn’t reason into.”
It’s impossible to have a reasoned discussion, even one that ends up at “agree to disagree,” with people like Alessandra because their opinions aren’t informed by anything reasoned or logical. Sure, many of them are good at embedding their opinions in simulacra of logic, but it doesn’t take much prodding to reveal the hatred within.
@Jewelbomb: Cognitive dissonance…how does it work?
Let me ask you. You’re displaying it at every comment you make.
@Jenos Idanian: “Robert Stacy McCain’s been all over this story.”
Maybe if you suck up to him enough, he’ll let you sniff some of the panties once he’s done.
Guys and gals, with very few exceptions District Attorneys do not take cases to trial without a reasonable belief they can win. This case is cut and dried. Ms Hunt (the perp) admitted to digital penetration of a minor. The prosecutor offered a very light sentence and no registration. The perp received some terrible legal advice hoping that a combination of outright lies and obfuscation in the so called ‘court of public opinion’ would bully the DA into dropping the charges. That isn’t going to happen. Now the perp will cost the taxpayers of Florida tons of money to try the case. You can bet the DA will now push for the maximum sentence under the law. The Romeo and Juliet statute only offers the perp a way out of registration. The coming conviction is all but a forgone conclusion.
This is a rather disappointing article from a lawyer who reduces the incident to the phrase “essentially a High School fling”
I suggest anyone following this case read the arrest affidavit
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013/05/21/us/hunt-arrest-affidavit.html
Vaginal penetration of a 14 year old in the bathroom on school grounds is sufficient cause for multiple charges, hardly the “High School fling” the author claims.
@Current Prosecutor: wrote: Guys and gals, with very few exceptions District Attorneys do not take cases to trial without a reasonable belief they can win. This case is cut and dried.
…………………
Let’s hope so. More power to them.
“The perp received some terrible legal advice hoping that a combination of outright lies and obfuscation in the so called ‘court of public opinion’ would bully the DA into dropping the charges. ”
Exactly – but the DA didn’t fall for it. Kudos to him! Serving the country and standing up for what they are supposed to do.
And Anonymous, btw, has the tech knowledge to unmask god knows how many pedophiles and child pornographers active online – BUT colludes with every single one of them by doing nothing. Yet here they were making threats to the DA to try to bully him to collude with statutory rape and exploitation of kids.
Liberals for you…
I’m coming into this late, but because I started in a foreign school system, I turned 18 in the fall of my junior year in high school. It never once occurred to me that I legally couldn’t or shouldn’t date freshmen.
It occurred to them, however.
@Kevin: Really? You think playing basketball is the same as using a vibrator on a 14-year old?
What an absolutely absurd strawman.
Give me break.
@Mikey:
@Mikey: Except that didn’t happen. Kate’s mother decided to post untrue comments on Facebook attacking the younger girl’s parents and the gay community picked it up and spouted it all as fact, making this a social issue rather than one about the law.
The Sheriff’s Dept, the prosecutor.. these people didn’t make this about being lesbians.. The MOTHER of Kate did.
The gay community should be outraged over being used as a tool and manipulated by Kate’s own family in order for Kate to be seen as a victim who shouldn’t be held responsible for her ACTIONS. It’s the actions that matter, not a sexual orientation.
If Kate’s parents had refrained from going nuts all over the internet and inviting media attention, this whole thing just might have been a slap on the wrist and forgotten about. But now they’ve backed the prosecutor against the wall. They can’t give in to the bullying of Kate’s family and the plethora of media outlets and groups who keep repeating Kate’s mother’s lies.
And how Kate and her family have decided to say no to a plea agreement and go to trial. Talk about hubris. These people are unbelievable.
And no one gives a crap about the sexual orientation of Kate. It’s about the LAW. Regardless of whether or not the law is ridiculous, it is currently the law.
They should have just kept their traps shut and not made this a circus. Both sets of parents could have gotten together with the prosecutor, handled it all privately, applied the Romeo & Juliet law and moved on.
@Christopher Bowen:
Not at all true. Not even a little bit. Kate turned 18 in August. The relationship with the younger girl began after school started–after September.
The younger girl was 14.
Read the affidavit rather than parrot Kate’s mother’s lies about the whole situation.
It absolutely kills me to be on the same “side” of this argument as a bigot like Alessandra, but everything @Current Prosecutor says has a very strong ring of truth. Go read the arrest affidavit at the link @Poppy posted.
This is about as clear cut as it gets. She was read her rights, chose to talk anyway, and admitted to the crime. Horrible decision to turn down the plea bargain.
For those who support gay rights (as I do), this is not a good case to get all up in arms about. If anything, reflexively defending her simply because she’s gay, hurts the cause of homosexual equality.
… and even if you’re defending her because you think the statutory rape law (as applied in situations like this) is unjust, then fine, fight to get the laws changed. But in the mean time, people can’t just pick and choose which laws they’re going to follow and which ones they’re going to ignore.
There’s a lot of comments to read here, so I didn’t. But my vote is: 18 and 14 “feels” a little creepy to me.
Fricking lawyers. Dude, you’re really a dope. The reason 16 years olds can give more consent is because there is a lot of evidence that children who are 14 and 15, no matter how mature they seem, are not developed enough emotionally to understand the ramifications of a sexual relationship. Even if they go to the same school.
Man, I hate reading these articles. We are truly a country of horribly messed up people these days. A friggin’s 14 year old is a child. There are several inaccuracies in the article as well. Kaitlyn’s supporters have really done a great job spewing out BS on this one. They would have made great Nazis.
@Current Prosecutor:
The perp received some terrible legal advice hoping that a combination of outright lies and obfuscation in the so called ‘court of public opinion’ would bully the DA into dropping the charges.
How do you know this? Is it not possible that the defense attorney advised the client to take the deal, but the client refused opting to take it to trial?
Also, it may be as cut and dried as you suggest. And if so, here’s hoping for jury nullification.
Cheers.
@Franklin:
There’s a lot of comments to read here, so I didn’t. But my vote is: 18 and 14 “feels” a little creepy to me.
It feels creepy to me, too. But this is something that competent parents should have been able to manage without bringing the law into it. I am normally very reluctant to criticize anyone’s parenting, but this is parental malpractice.
@Todd:
funny that you should call people who don’t like the sexual exploitation and abuse of kids “bigots”
Speaks volumes…
And seriously, you can stay on the side of Kaitlyn and Polanski., GLAAD, the ACLU and NAMBLA.
I guess you are not aware that by bringing this into the discussion, you are basically screaming “I am an idiot” at the top of your lungs…
@PogueMahone: You are correct in that I am making an assumption, an educated assumption however. This early in the process, were I Ms. Hunts attorney and she chose to disregard my legal advice I would remove myself from her employ.
It’s clear that those defending Kaitlyn would encourage, aid, and abet teenagers in committing many kinds of sexually exploitative and abusive actions, including every single statutory rape in society. This is, after all, the liberal recipe for sexuality regarding teenagers. Despite their ridiculous protestations that they are not in the same boat as the NAMBLA folks, liberals who normalize homosexuality show us that, in practice, they want to largely achieve what NAMBLA failed to do. They want to have sex with minors and claim to be oppressed and misunderstood if they aren’t allowed to – the only difference is the cut-off age, since NAMBLA also included smaller kids. Furthermore, NAMBLA consistently pushed to lower consent age for sex – exactly one of the issues in this case.
Kaitlyn’s parents shamelessly proclaimed that Kaitlyn was just “experimenting with her sexuality and the other girl’s.” So, what if this Kaitlyn had wanted to produce child porn with this 14-year-old? What if she wanted to have a three-some with an adult and the 14-year-old? Should she be allowed simply because she has a homosexual problem and her parents claim that Kaitlyn has the right to “experiment with other girls’ sexualities” in any way that her perverted homosexual mind conceives of? Kaitlyn’s “right” to “experiment” with other kids stops where other kids have the right not to be experimented with – and that applies to every single kid. All the more power to the girl’s parents who went to the police. And lucky for them that they still can. If liberals continue to push for their “normalize homosexuality” crusade, pretty soon parents with ethical views on sexuality will probably be hauled into jail for not accepting homosexuality as normal and for objecting that their kids be groomed for homosexual sex, which we all know is hailed as the hate and bigotry thought crime du jour.
@Kristine:
It’s not about sexual orientation? Read down through Alessandra’s comments on this thread and tell me that again.
I agree the law has been broken. But there are times when law is not the way to handle a problem. In this case we have two kids and two sets of parents. There is no suggestion of force or coercion. There is the obvious fact that under the law a 14 year-old cannot give consent. But there is also the fact that a few months separate “legal” from “illegal” and that’s not enough to make me believe a girl should be going to prison.
The two sets of parents should have been able to get together and agree that this relationship was 1) Illegal, 2) Therefore had to be ended, 3) Taken necessary steps to end the relationship, and 4) Let time heal the unavoidable wounds.
Instead what happened is that this went to the police and the prosecutor and now the younger girl’s relationship with her parents is very likely shattered, she’s been publicly humiliated and used, and the older girl’s freedom in in serious danger and not incidentally the taxpayers are on the hook for the whole thing. Every aspect of this has been made far, far worse because two sets of parents could not pull their heads out of their asses and do their jobs.
People need to be able to handle things without it going nuclear.
@Alessandra:
Just to be clear: if the older girl had been seventeen and this had all been legal, you’d still be screeching abou homosexuals and liberals and whatnot. Right?
@Alessandra:
Just to be clear, while I think that Ms. Hunt almost without a doubt broke the law, I also think it’s highly unlikely that her younger girlfriend was in any way “exploited” or “abused”.
And I called you a bigot because you clearly have issues about homosexuality, and you’ve made some very crude and obnoxious comments related to subject over the course of this thread.
btw, I wouldn’t call someone a bigot simply for being against homosexuality. But when you write something like:
There’s really only one way to describe the kind of person you appear to be …
A bigot.
@Current Prosecutor:
If an individual is guilty of the criime turning down the plea is a bad idea. Now the prosecutor will most likely push to make an example of the perp. We don’t offer plea agreements then take rebuffs lightly.
See, this also bugs me.
I thought that the prosecutor’s goal was the pursuit of justice. What is the just outcome here? Is it the lighter sentence plea, or is it to be made an example of. Both cannot be just outcomes simultaneously – even if one considers case load. Moreover, why would the prosecutor, in pursuit of justice, not “take rebuffs lightly”? Why would a prosecutor get offended in the first place and why would that have any relevance to what the state believes is a just outcome?
Cheers.
Todd wrote: I also think it’s highly unlikely that her younger girlfriend was in any way “exploited” or “abused”.
Exhibit A – if you ask anyone from NAMBLA if what they want to do to kids is “exploitation” or “abuse,” they will say categorically No.
For example,
Jason Felch, the LA Times reporter who investigated 1,600 of the Boy Scouts’ “perversion files”, reported this morning that of the files revealed a pattern of grooming behavior shared by the suspected molesters.
According to the article, “In hundreds of cases, Scout leaders allowed the boys to drive cars, drink alcohol, or look at pornography. They gradually tested physical boundaries during skinny dipping, group showers, sleepovers, and one-on-one activities.”
By spending one-on-one time with a boy, giving him gifts, and allowing him to break the rules, the pedophile gains the boy’s trust and sets a tone of secrecy that will continue throughout the relationship.
To outsiders, the abuser seems like a great guy who loves kids or youngsters.
As the article also points out, after an abuser has gradually tested boundaries, they will use a boy’s inebriation from alcohol or their arousal from watching pornography as an opportunity to make their move and molest the boy or engage in other sexual activities with an adolescent.
……………………..;;;;
And if anyone objects to these abusers, you call them a bigot!
A Bigot! And you don’t think that you are demented…
@michael reynolds:
Greetings:
Michael, my dark-eyed beauty, how’s about you run that “genuine love” one past me one more time, just for old times’ sake ???
@Alessandra:
Nope, I didn’t call you a bigot because of anything you may object to, I called you a because because of the way that you object:
big·ot noun \ˈbi-gət\
: a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance
btw, is this NAMBLA thing even a real organization, with you know, real members? Honestly the only time I’ve ever heard of it is on Bill O’Reilly’s TV show, and from deranged commenters on Internet websites. 🙂
@PogueMahone: I’m just being honest with the people here as an assistant district attorney. We consider trial costs and chance of conviction. I’m sorry to say that in many instances you will find that ‘justice’ and ‘the law’ do not exactly coincide.
In this case, the refusal to take the deal means a minor will likely be forced to take the stand in what promises to be a highly covered trial. The ensuing damage to the victim will be a factor in the DA’s forcefulness at trial as well as the reputation of the prosecution team.
We would rather every perp plead guilty. Making an example of someone who turns down a deal in what seems to be an open and shut case (the confession) will help to deter , hopefully, future defendants facing the DA’s office.
I would like to add that I have prosecuted more cases formed on laws I personally disagree with than not. Primarily marijuana cases. I also like to quote my conviction rate when I make an offer to a defendant in the hopes they will choose the lighter charge/sentence. I don’t believe any sentence for marijuana posession is just, but the law is the law.
@Todd:
NAMBLA symbolizes an out-of-the-closet, in-your-face political movement to normalize pedophilia, obviously of the homosexual kind. As I have heard, they mostly operate underground today because the publicizing of their views drew attention from police to investigate their members… even if they might not be that large in number.
Their discourse is basically the same as “gay rights” – they claim to be misunderstood and that they just want to love…
…………………..
big·ot
“: a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance”
Ah, by your definition, you’re a bigot if there ever was one then! You are quite obstinate about your own prejudices and you regard members of a group (like the group of people who think like me) with hatred and intolerance
or you wouldn’t call me a “bigot.” Or you would admit that you are as much of a bigot as you think other people are – and then, I’m sure, it wouldn’t be as fun for you to go name-calling others as “bigot.”
And… if it isn’t news to you, you have plenty of issues with your sexuality views.
@Alessandra:
Gee thanks. I suppose I should go let my wife know that I’ve been “diagnosed” on the Internet, and she’d be wise to keep me away from my kids.
Seriously, much appreciated. 🙂
@ Alessandra
Look, we are all feeling some pity for you, obviously you are pretty screwed up.
That being said, unless pity is what you are fishing for, perhaps it’s time for you to run along. We would like to have a reasonably sane, intelligent discussion, and you don’t seem to be up to it.
@Todd: wrote: Gee thanks. I suppose I should go let my wife know that I’ve been “diagnosed” on the Internet, and she’d be wise to keep me away from my kids.
But isn’t she just as bigoted as you are?
Surely when your kids go sexually abuse and exploit other minors, fully encouraged by you – because you know, that’s not “sexual exploitation” – you’ll go on the Internet and claim they are being persecuted by those other bigots…
@Alessandra: At this point your comments have become nearly unbearable. Homosexuality has absolutely nothing to do with the case being discussed. Your continued assault against homosexuals in general is disturbing. There is no law as far as I’m aware that states sexual abuse is acceptable unless it is same sex. You have made an argument that is as irrelevant and false as the #FreeKate crowd.
@Current Prosecutor:
Thanks for the reply. It is not often that a prosecutor will enter in a discussion of this nature, and your honesty is much appreciated.
I would like to add that I have prosecuted more cases formed on laws I personally disagree with than not. Primarily marijuana cases.
Well that sucks.
Most of us, in any profession, must do things they don’t want to do. And sometimes we do things we think is wrong, but nonetheless we must do them to keep our jobs in order to feed our family.
I must say that I do things in the course of my daily job that I hate doing. But never is the result of me doing something I disagree with that someone sits behind bars for doing something that harms no one but oneself. I don’t know if I could do it. In fact, I know I couldn’t do it.
Obviously, an ADA will inevitably prosecute someone that he doesn’t think deserves to be prosecuted on orders from his boss. But damn, … “prosecuted more cases formed on laws I personally disagree with than not” … Jesus!
Ever think about switching sides so that you have the luxury to, “remove myself from her employ”?
Again, thanks for the reply.
Cheers.
@michael reynolds: If the 14 year-old ran away from home to stay at this girl’s house then the relationship obviously already existed, whether or not it had become physically sexual.
The police documents, which McCain links to, clearly state that the relationship became physical in November, the victim ran away in January, and the two also had sexual contact while the victim was staying at the accused’s house.
It’s all there in the police reports — dates and everything.
@Alessandra wrote:
lol, it’s obvious that you don’t even bother to read what people you choose to argue with have written.
From earlier in this thread, I wrote:
Shouldn’t come as a terrible shock though, as I do like to know a little bit about the people I’m having a “conversation” with, so I went over to your blog, and found this is the ‘about’ section:
I have to agree with @anjin-san, it doesn’t appear that you came here with the intent of adding anything positive to the discourse. Normally this is one of the few semi-sane political blog comment sections. It sure would be nice if we could keep it that way.
Current Prosecutor says: Homosexuality has absolutely nothing to do with the case being discussed. Your continued assault against homosexuals in general is disturbing.
What inflammatory language!
If liberals continuously assault social conservatives – and don’t find it disturbing – I don’t see why you should have a problem with the “assault” of anyone else.
The volume of people on this thread that don’t seem to realize that the school year starts in August in many Sun Belt states (including Florida) would be amusing if a high schooler wasn’t a risk of spending the rest of her life on a sex offender registry list for dating one of her high school softball team members.
Additionally, I never thought I would say this, but my mother was right that there is someone for everybody. Superdestroyer, I hope you’re cogent enough today to realize that your Superdudette has graced us with her presence on this very thread! I think the two of you would have a wonderful time finding common ground between Storm Front and NOM. Just, please, don’t have kids.
@PogueMahone: In the past I did not have the seniority to choose the cases I prosecute as I have now. I have indeed considered the other side, but my personal aspiration is to make DA and eventually Judge.
I push back against laws I disagree with the only legitimate way, with my ballot. The DA can choose not to prosecute, and usually ADAs with seniority can request the cases they want. We do alot of good work. My office is in one of the nations most highly populated cities top 5 in fact. I rarely do marijuana cases anymore and my beliefs on drug laws have evolved throughout my career. We almost always offer marijuana cases a lighter sentence, usually probation is on the table.
Todd wrote: From earlier in this thread, I wrote: When my oldest son turned 18, you’d better believe that is a conversation we most definitely had … that he needed to date girls his own age.
And then you said about Kaitlyn and her sexually exploiting the victim in this case:
Todd wrote: I also think it’s highly unlikely that her younger girlfriend was in any way “exploited” or “abused”.
See? So why would it be a problem if your son targeted 14 yr olds or 13 yr olds or 15 yr olds or 12 yr olds for sex – since you you don’t think that’s sex with kids is exploitation or sexual abuse?
Todd said: I have to agree with @anjin-san, it doesn’t appear that you came here with the intent of adding anything positive to the discourse.
………………..
Oh yes, because if I don’t follow your NAMBLA discourse, I’m not adding anything “positive.” If I don’t call everyone who questions the way liberals think about sexuality a bigot and a hater, I’m not adding anything “positive.”
I would say that only people who can question the flaws with your views can add something positive here.
You don’t want something positive, you want an echo chamber.
@ Current Prosecutor
Hopefully the “war on drugs” insanity will end some day, and we can focus on treatment and battling things that are real menaces, like meth.
If we legalize pot in California and tax it, a lot of our budge problems will go away. Spend the money on schools, or spend it on sending potheads to prison, militarizing the police, and eroding civil rights.
@Alessandra: I have no idea why I’m even still bothering to reply to you, but since I’m obviously a gluten for punishment, I’ll try to explain it.
The day my son turned 18, it would have been illegal for him (in our state) to engage in sexual activity with anybody under the age of 15 (3 years younger), and he would have been in a “grey” area with anyone younger than 17 (the actual age of consent).
That’s why we had the conversation we had.
But the fact is, he was a senior in High School, and could have been dating a freshman girl the day before his 18th birthday without anyone so much as blinking an eye.
We had the conversation not because I thought it would have been (morally) wrong for him to have a 16, 15, or even 14 year old girlfriend when he was barely 18; but because it would have been legally wrong … and I don’t ever want to have to visit any of my kids in jail.
p.s. my son is now almost 21, and if I found out he was even thinking about dating a 16 year old, I’d put a boot up his ass, with a quickness.
@Alessandra: What a steaming pile of pseudoscientific horseshit.
Why did society punish us by not having both of these potential humans aborted years ago ?
So most things that I think about this case has been said by more eloquent voices than mine. So instead I’ve been analyzing Allesandros rantings. Here’s what really struck me:
One, s/he can’t even type the word vagina without changing the spelling (so it doesn’t give her the Heebie jeebies? No spam filter would stop an anatomical word, I think.)
Two, s/he’s disgusted at the idea of non penile-vaginal exploration. You’re not dealing with a run of the mill homophobe. You’re dealing with a clearly sexually confused and repressed individual. I honestly feel kind of sorry for him.
@Todd:
What?! I thought this blog was gluten-free!! Now I have to go get my allergy meds….
@JWH:
🙂
@PogueMahone: “Most of us, in any profession, must do things they don’t want to do.”
I spent a season writing for David Hasselhoff…
@Current Prosecutor: No. You wouldn’t. I believe you to be affiliated with a ‘prosecutor’ as much as I believe the statement “We’re from the government, we’re here to help.”
Troll.
Both superdestroyer and allesandra tip their hands that not only are they playing a losing hand, it’s the last one they will ever get to play, and they well know it. From here on out it’s negative attention-getting because it’s either that or no attention whatsoever.
I can only recommend the latter.
@Alessandra: I’m sorry no one likes you Alessandra. Maybe if you gave up your pathological hatred and pretend science (etiology, oooh!)
Seriously. You have been brainwashed by the worst corners of the internet. You have all the trappings of a far-right troll: you only “emphasize” words you “disagree” with; you label anyone who disagrees with you a liberal, oh it’s all the liberals’ fault; you goad people on by needlessly calling the offender here a “lesbian pig”; we get it, you hate homosexuals. Perhaps you are a “cured” homosexual yourself? I wouldn’t care, except whatever you have been through has obviously warped your mind and made you equate homosexuality with NAMBLA.
Look, I am a moderate Republican and relatively conservative socially. I don’t really approve of homosexuality in my heart-of-hearts – I can’t help it – whenever I think about the actual physical aspect of what they do I am repulsed – BUT I am capable of separating that personal view from our greater political society. I am not a great supporter of gay marriage but I have never taken, and will not take, an active stance against it. If two people (or more consenting adults, honestly) want to live together and engage in physical conduct, what business is it of mine or yours? You fling out the word LIBERALS yet YOU are the one advocating for a totalitarian big government state that would, quite obviously in your fantasy, ban and viciously persecute homosexual behavior. This has nothing to do with the ages of the victims to you and the NAMBLA stuff is a bogus and tired line.
@JWH: Which is why the age of consent is 16.
@aFloridian:
Oh my God, you’re a sane conservative. Please consider coming around more often. My involvement here is an auto-didactic enterprise on my part. I’m actually interested in testing hypotheses against intelligent criticism and the “conservatives” who comment here are for the most part not much brighter than Alessandra, though not quite as glaringly insane. I think a lot of us would enjoy crossing swords with a conservative who was an actual conservative.
@Bill: Uh. No. The age of consent in Florida is actually 18. However, the way this particular law reads, anyone…and I mean anyone…..could be charged for touching or having sex with anyone between the ages of 12 and 16…including another person between the ages of 12 and 16. It’s a lower grade felony, but the prison term is really similar. Take a look: http://www.richardhornsby.com/crimes/sex/lewd-or-lascivious-molestation.html
Will she be tried as an adult or as a minor? It is possible for her to be tried as a minor despite her age status because of Florida legal system. If tried as a minor she faces only a possibility of 1 year of jail time.
@Alessandra: So what does it mean when the “lesbian” has had relationships with boys and girls? How do you explain that one away since she’s quite capable of having stable loving relationships with guys?
@Alessandra: You clearly have no idea what anonymous is or how the internet works…
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2395171,00.asp
http://gawker.com/5855604/elaborate-anonymous-sting-snags-190-kiddie-porn-fans
Just do a quick google search and you’ll find pages upon pages of members of anonymous busting people for a wide variety of illegal activities (usually crimes involving some kind of abuse).
Facts are such a hard thing for you…
This whole bit reminds me of something that happened back in highschool.
When one of my friends was 16 he started dating a 14 year old and he had the blessing of the parents involved. They were steady and quite obviously in love for over a year. Well when he was 17 and the girl was 15 (was turning 16 in a couple months) the girl’s parents split up. IN the ensuing divorce the girl sided with her mom and the dad went into a rage fit. Since the dad was on the local police force he was able to get my friend arrested a variety of charges including statutory rape. Since the age of consent in Illinois was 17 he was considered an adult while she was still 15 so she was unable to give consent (she turned 16 a month later). So because of some vindictive father trying to get back at his daughter my friend was put in jail and risked being labeled a child molester for life.
Long story short the father came to his senses and pulled strings to get the charges dropped so that my buddie’s life wasn’t ruined.
This situation reminds me a lot of what happened to my friend. I think the parents are mad at their “little” girl because she’s starting to express a mind of her own and they are blaming the older girl for this. Bad parenting at it’s worse and now the 15 year old girl’s life is going to be almost as ruined as the 18 year old’s.
Meanwhile last year I got a card in the mail warning me that a sexual predator that had molested kids was moving into my neighborhood. I looked the guy up and he had been convicted of having sex with his 16 year old girlfriend while he was 17…I shit you not.
@Current Prosecutor: Yeah your vindictive and childish mindset is in line with what I’ve seen with some prosecutors.. So I totally believe you..
How dare a mere PERP stand up to you. After-all you are THE LAW!!!!1
I love the loaded language you use. It appears you’ve taken the same classes about preparing reports that most cops take. Loaded language to the maximum ftw eh?
@Alessandra: Everyone needs to keep in mind that a police report has a specific use – document the facts you need to make an arrest. That is opposed to document all the facts. These two girls knew each other prior to that school year. So the relationship started at 17 /14. I definitely escalated to sexual at 18 3 months and 14 10 months. The parties are now 18 / 15.
The police report is a tool used by the executive branch. It is actually not even entered to the court.
matt says: @Alessandra: You clearly have no idea what anonymous is or how the internet works…
On the contrary, I had never seen the particular article you linked to.
Can you tell me what happened to any of these people who Anonymous caught with child porn?
matt says: @Alessandra: So what does it mean when the “lesbian” has had relationships with boys and girls? How do you explain that one away since she’s quite capable of having stable loving relationships with guys?
LOL you think you got some “gotcha” going there?
I don’t really understand your question – which “lesbian” (in quotes) are you talking about? Kaitlyn? Are you saying she is bisexual? How do I explain that she is bisexual? Is that your question?
@ken: Indeed police reports are intentionally written with specific charged language to imply as heavily as possible the guilt of the person being charged.
@Alessandra: What is anonymous supposed to head to their houses and kill them or something? As always they sent the proper authorities all the information they would need to make arrests or begin their own investigation.
Why don’t YOU spend a little of your time and let me know?
That was only one small operation in an ongoing massive campaign against child porn. Either via direct attacks on those who provide it or via exposing those that consume it the war continues.
@Alessandra: I was actually referring to my recent ex who had relationships with girls before meeting me. We only broke up cause of a fundamental incompatibility and not because she was incapable of having a relationship with a man….
I am not a great supporter of gay marriage but I have never taken, and will not take, an active stance against it. If two people (or more consenting adults, honestly) want to live together and engage in physical conduct, what business is it of mine or yours?
==================
Here is where we disagree. Because people take sexuality everywhere they go – so sexuality is not just restricted to “two people living together and leaving the rest of society alone”
And that certainly applies to homosexuality and bisexuality. We currently have a dysfunctional, perverted, violent society in terms of sexuality. And most of the people doing harm , do it with impunity. Why? Because Americans hate to face problems in this area and much less do anything about it. Most privileged people – like all the ones commenting here – sustain harm and violence (directly or indirectly), not the other way around. And I mean by privilege being in a comfortable setting, it’s not a question of greats amount of money.
These are but a few problems: Sex with strangers, hookups, porn, abortion as a contraceptive method, sex with STD epidemics, sex with minors, sexual harassment, rape, abuse, interpersonal violence, trafficking, prostitution, …
The majority of people committing crimes and other destructive actions in the sphere of sexuality are exactly the ones you say are just the kind of people who want “to live together” meaning they’re just like everyone else. The majority of people who perpetrate harm and violence in the sexual sphere are the people who at other times are the “consenting adults” you speak of.
As long as we have a very destructive and violent society, it is my business and that’s not the society I want and have a right to. Now you can choose to be blind to the problems in society and turn your back on them – and pretend that this is moral – but you’re just being irresponsible. It is everybody’s business to confront problems with sexuality.
It is an uninformed, misinformed, and seriously negligent attitude such as the one espoused here that perpetuates violence and harm in society related to the sexual and personal sphere.
matt says:@Alessandra: What is anonymous supposed to head to their houses and kill them or something? As always they sent the proper authorities all the information they would need to make arrests or begin their own investigation.
Why don’t YOU spend a little of your time and let me know?
=============
Because I thought you would know. Because mostly, as we can see, people like you can care less about what happened – including those in the media.
What did the “proper” authorities do? How many were arrested? You mean you don’t know anything more about the case? And you don’t care? And no one followed through? No one thinks this is important to know what happened? That’s the profile of the people who say that “sexuality is nobody’s business.”
And in case you live in lalaland, I’m asking this because a great number of child porn users are never prosecuted, even when the “authorities” find out some information about them.
” a totalitarian big government state that would, quite obviously in your fantasy, ban and viciously persecute homosexual behavior. This has nothing to do with the ages of the victims to you and the NAMBLA stuff is a bogus and tired line. ”
What I write and how you distort it are two different things. Totalitarian government huh? Keeps you up at night, I see?
This case has very much to do with the age of the victims, the liberal ideology you partly espouse, the normalization of homosexuality, and the real persecution of those who don’t agree with your hypocritical semi-conservatism.
And most ironically, liberals are doing everything they can to use the government to persecute anyone who questions their homosexuality agenda. Maybe you got your “totalitarian govt persecution” a little confused.
And the “you’re a bigot and a hater and a puritan and you’re going to have the big government come persecute everyone ” line we see here is what now? Your crude and ridiculous old liberal line.
This thread is a long list of petty and crude ways to stereotype conservatives of any kind and a failure to address the issues raised. Typical liberals.
Lastly I do take issue with the most retarded way that liberals pretend that normalizing homosexuality is anything good; therefore this categorization of people in good or bad based on the criterion if they normalized homosexuality or not is probably the most hypocritical ideological device ever to appear on the American cultural scene.
NAMBLA (wiki)
The North American Man/Boy Love Association (NAMBLA) is a pedophile and pederasty advocacy organization in the United States that works to abolish age of consent laws criminalizing adult sexual involvement with minors,[2][3] and for the release of all men who have been jailed for sexual contacts with minors that did not involve coercion.
===============
Read as many times as necessary. It’s exactly how liberals think, see the Kaitlyn case. Instead of abolishing age of consent laws, liberals want to progressively bring them down, even if not abolishing them completely.
“NAMBLA’s website states that it is a political, civil rights, and educational organization whose goal is to end “the extreme oppression of men and boys in mutually consensual relationships.””
Heh! Just like the discourse from liberals here and everywhere – free Kate – it’s all consensual!
===============
“In 1994 the Gay & Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation (GLAAD) adopted a “Position Statement Regarding NAMBLA” saying GLAAD “deplores the North American Man Boy Love Association’s (NAMBLA) goals, which include advocacy for sex between adult men and boys and the removal of legal protections for children. ”
You can’t make this stuff up. And what are liberals and the repugnant GLAAD people doing right here?
Advocating for sex between adults and children. Removing the legal protections for children! Because according to liberals (who normalize homosexuality and child sexual exploitation ), sex with children is just fine – the only problem is if they get caught – that’s the mentality of a pedophile. See Todd above talking about that the problem is the law – and the other people on here.
GLAAD: “Diligent action is needed to convince Bruce Colton and Brian Workman to DROP the charges pressed against 18 year old Kaitlyn and give her the opportunity to pursue the fulfilling life she deserves to lead.”
Just like NAMBLA. No charges for pedophiles – it’s all normal.
And seriously, the “fulfilling” life of a deformed lesbian who targets kids for sex? There you go – no matter how deformed people are regarding sexuality, count on liberals to claim it’s all normal and good.
Charges should not be brought in this case. The parents of the fourteen year old showed poor judgement in allowing a child the age of fourteen to be in any type of serious relationship. The problem today is that many parents are not being responsible and today’s society is paying the price. We also have the ludicrous situation in which a judge wants children to be able to go into a drug store and buy birth control pills without a prescription, yet they need parents’ permission to buy otc allergy medicene, go on a field trip to the zoo, or get a library card!! Such is the society in which we live that the government wsnts to take suthority away from parents and many parents do not want to use the authority that they have. Bizarre.
@Alessandra:
I know we shouldn’t feed the trolls but…
Name ONE person here who advocated for child sexual exploitation. On this forum we don’t do the straw-man thing, in other words you don’t just get to equate homosexuals with anything you choose.
Do yourself a favor and look up the Wikipedia article on fallacy (and no, it’s not spelled with a ‘ph’ – get your mind out of the gutter). You’ll really improve your arguments if you avoid them, although it will likely force you to re-think your entire worldview.
@Christopher Bowen:
This is flatly untrue, and is contradicted by the police arrest affidavit, which clearly states that Hunt turned 18 last August, the relationship commenced in November, with the sexual contact following. Hunt had therefore been 18 for several months before any of this began, and the younger girl was 14 throughout (and only recently turned 15, a fact which is irrelevant). You seem to be citing falsehoods that the Hunt family initially disseminated, and have since stepped away from once the police report was released.
@Tyrell: The parents involved didn’t allow the relationship, however, they can’t control what their daughter does in school or after having run away. This article shows horrible bias in not including this, but if you google this story a bit, the girls had sex once in the school bathroom, and after the parents asked the older girl to leave their daughter alone the girls had sex again when the girl ran away and the older girl picked her up. I honestly have no issues with a 18 year old guy who does the same (particularly having sex with a 14 year old in a public restroom) being on the sex offender registry, and don’t see why this is any different.
@Alessandra: Because according to liberals (who normalize homosexuality and child sexual exploitation ), sex with children is just fine
Tony W says:Name ONE person here who advocated for child sexual exploitation. On this forum we don’t do the straw-man thing, in other words you don’t just get to equate homosexuals with anything you choose.
……………………..;
If people here equate conservatives with anything they choose, including the crudest nonsense; I don’t see why you should be complaining about “equations.”
And although you are trolling, and it’s true, feeding trolls isn’t such a good thing, here’s your troll feed.
First liberals say that having sex with children is not exploitation – isn’t that what they claim regarding Kaitlyn? – then they claim that they are not advocating for the sexual exploitation of children. All they did is change the definition.
That’s what’s happening here: NAMBLA says sexual abuse of boys is not sexual abuse of boys; it’s love between men and boys. So there’s no abuse, only love. All we need to do is to change the sex of the individuals in this case.
That’s how the game is played.
Oh, and I just heard about the big splash at Cannes (Blue is the Warmest Colour). Disguised underage lesbian porn as a “normal movie.”
For a pervert, nothing is perverted – these are the true colors of GLAAD, NAMBLA, the ACLU, and the majority of liberals. I am not going to ask how many commenters here would greatly enjoy watching underage lesbian porn, and want to push it as normal, because we already know the answer.
You said it better than I could.
@Christopher Bowen:
No, this is incorrect. Kaitlyn’s father lied when he stated this. According to the arrest affidavit, Kaitlyn was born August 14, 1994. Both girls apparently have stated to police that the relationship became sexual sometime around Christmas of 2012, when Kaitlyn was 18+.
Indeed, if you follow the story carefully, you will see that Kaitlyn’s dad routinely makes stuff up. For instance, he claims (in the text that accompanies the Change.org petition) that Kaitlyn had just turned 18 when she was arrested. But she was arrested in February of 2013, when she was 18-1/2.
@Christopher Bowen: Little note here, guys: the relationship started when one was 17 and the other was 14. When the arrest occurred, one was 18, the other was 15. In fact, they dated for awhile; the other parents didn’t cause any trouble until after she turned 18, and therefore could be arrested.
Repeatedly proven false. Accused turned 18 before they met, victim turned 15 after the arrest. So their ages were 18 and 14 during the entire duration of their relationship. See the police affidavits for proof.
There are two explanations for repeating these false statements: ignorance and spin. Which shall we put you down for?
@Alessandra: You’ve lost the argument, dear, and you will keep losing it day after day after day. The world you want is not going to happen. This is what happens when you terrify people with your stupendously outrageous and irresponsible rhetoric:
No one wants anything whatsoever to do with you.
Please proceed. We’re all watching, mostly in horror.
Blaming the victim’s parents for calling the police is asinine. The publicly available information is clear. The victim’s parents notified authorities when they woke up to find their child missing. Once the police became aware of the improper relationship, the arrest and charges were legitimate and not under the control of the victim’s parents.
@Kevin : I’m devastated…
@Matt : The law is the law, we only strive to enforce it. A nation built on laws cannot pick and choose when to enforce the law based on public opinion. If the public at large disagrees with any law the only legitimate recourse is to vote in representatives who will change it.
There is no question Ms. Hunt broke the law she has confessed. The argument now is whether the laws against child sex predators applies to homosexuals. This is truly disturbing.
@Current Prosecutor:
Publicly “thumbs up”.
That’s what this whole thing is about. She confessed to breaking the law, turned down what sounds like a relatively reasonable plea agreement, and now (it seems) wants to use the fact that she happens to be a lesbian to somehow try to get out of taking responsibility for her actions at all.
Again, I don’t think her sexuality has anything to do with this.
I also agree that the law, as it applies to this type of situation, probably isn’t particularly “fair”.
But …
Once she was stupid enough to confess, it’s pretty much game over. Whoever told her to go to the press, instead of taking the plea deal is the one who will be (at least partially) responsible if she gets a relatively long jail sentence and/or ends up on a sex offender registry.
@Alessandra: “I am not going to ask how many commenters here would greatly enjoy watching underage lesbian porn, and want to push it as normal, because we already know the answer. ”
So if we’re all such hopeless perverts — or worse, liberals — why are you soiling yourself here? God knows no one invited you to show up for the first time, climb on your little hobby horse, and start insulting complete strangers while proving that you have such deep issues with sex it’s astonishing you haven’t been institutionalized.
If you don’t like it here, piss off. Go to France and parade around outside the Palais du Cinema with a sign calling them perverts. Go to a lesbian bar and start screaming about how they’re all child molesters. You know, do something useful.
Because around here you’re just acting like a panty-sniffing creep who is desperately afraid that someone out there might be having sex. You’re not going to make any converts. And God knows you’re not going to make any friends.
So what’s the point of screaming and ranting here?
@Brainster: “Indeed, if you follow the story carefully”
Then you probably don’t have any kind of life and entertain yourself by obsessing over other people’s sex lives.
@Jenos Idanian #13: And right on cue, Jay Tea jumps in.
@Todd: “I also agree that the law, as it applies to this type of situation, probably isn’t particularly “fair”. ”
You and this prosecutor clown keep arguing as if the law exists for its own sake. It does not. The law is an instrument of justice, and the purpose of enforcing the law is to enable justice.
I don’t know if Junior Prosecutor is or is not what he claims. But since there are plenty of prosecutors who try to keep convicts in jail after their innocence has been proven by DNA — apparently because they are more infallible than science — and since there are plenty of prosecutors who feel free to hide exculpatory evidence when they “know” in their guts that the defendant is guilty, yeah I can see this guy being part of that brethren. I’m sure he’d give a standing ovation to the prosecutors in Texas who like to execute innocent men and the judges who break their oaths to make sure that happens.
@wr:
It’s the confession that I can’t get past.
Without that confession, then this whole “it’s a witch hunt” publicity strategy might have at least a slim chance of getting a more “reasonable” deal. But with it, I can’t imagine even the most progressive prosecutor would have much leeway, when it comes to what they can offer … especially now that there’s all this publicity.
While I’m inclined to be sympathetic to her situation, I don’t see how any reasonable person could advocate that she shouldn’t suffer any consequences at all.
@wr: The facts of this case are so simple, even you should grasp it. A legal adult engaged in a sexual relationship with a 14-year-old.
So, are you also going to plead ignorance, or just come out (so to speak) and say you endorse statutory rape and oppose age of consent laws?
I’m betting on you taking Option C, your usual stunt — ignore the actual issue at hand and engage in really stupid personal attacks.
Please, surprise me.
@Todd: “It’s the confession that I can’t get past. ”
To you, it’s a confession. To this 18 year-old girl, I’d guess that it’s a declaration. A declaration that they are in love and that she refuses to treat the relationship as if its something wrong or dirty. (To me, that goes along with the refusal of the plea deal.)
Is this a stupid way to approach a criminal case? Sure. But she’s an 18 year-old girl who has been thrown in jail because her girlfriend’s parents don’t approve of their relationship (from her POV — let’s not get that Alexandra freak frothing at the mouth again). She’s full of romantic ideals and the certainty of youth. There’s a reason why don’t throw tomatoes when Romeo and Juliet kill themselves rather than go on living without each other — because we understand how strong emotions are in the young.
This prosecutor clown seems to believe that her attitude deserves to be slapped down with all the force the penal system can muster because she refused their plea deal and must be shown that Prosecutors Must Not Be Trifled With.
But are we interested in punishment for its own sake, or are we interested in justice? How is society helped by destroying this girl’s life?
@wr: ad hominem attacks aren’t going to change the outcome of this case. Assuming that every DA and ADA in Texas is supportive of execution is ridiculous. I personally have not tried a death penalty case to date.
I’m disappointed in Ms Hunt’s attorney. Pardon me for providing a perspective into this case you are not likely to receive elsewhere.
As I stated before, we do alot of very good work, you would not disparage my profession as willingly were you the victim of a crime.
God Bless Texas.
@Current Prosecutor: “God Bless Texas. ”
I didn’t realize you were from Texas, Mr. Prosecutor. So tell me, what do you think of your colleagues who executed Cameron Tod Willingham based on fraudulent “science” from some hack, and continued to fight for his execution even when it was obvious to all the world that there was no rational basis to conclude he was guilty?
Is this how you do your job? Is this the system you’re so proud to be a part of?
@wr: Yup, you went for Option C and are trying to change the subject frantically, just so you can continue your standard (and only) tactic of personal attacks.
So we’ll just mark you down as pro-pedophile, OK? You think it’s just fine and dandy that adults have sex with 14-year-olds.
That’s a little harsh. You probably weren’t pro-pedophile until a conservative spoke out against it, and then your knee-jerk reactions that substitute for thinking kicked in and you had to automatically disagree with the conservative. Even to the point of siding with pedophiles.
That’s giving you the benefit of the doubt, but I’ll do so this time.
@wr: Sorry, it would be improper for me to comment on cases from Texas.
@Jenos Idanian #13:
Don’t you think that using the term pedophile in regards to this case is just a tad hyperbolic?
It’s worth noting that Jenos was not nearly so protective of minors when Treyvon Martin was shot dead on his way home from a trip to the store to buy candy.
Nothing wrong with an armed, grown man stalking a kid who was somewhere he had every right to be, minding his own business, no sir. He was suspicious. He was black.
Well, hyperbolic, and utterly wrong, given the circumstances. Pedophiles are interested in pre-pubescent children, typically under the age of 11. In addition, the sexual interest of a pedophile is typically focused entirely on that age group.
But, we should not let facts get in the way of a perfectly good rant.
@Christopher Bowen:
Given that the tripe about ages at the time of the offense is patently refuted by the record, and that the adult was 18 well before this relationship ever began, do you still feel as strongly that this is somehow a miscarriage of justice?
For myself, I was originally on the fence, not feeling strongly one way or another, but leaning toward this being an unfortunate case.
Once Hunt’s camp started peddling the lie that she was only charged the day she turned 18, it occurred to me that she & her family should step off, and take the medicine they seem so richly to deserve.
@anjin-san: Fine, replace “pedophilia” with “adults finger-banging barely-teenaged adolescents.”
And if you’re going to bring up the Trayvon Martin case for whatever reason, there’s an eyewitness who had this to say about the incident:
But back to the basic point: this is a case of an 18-year-old engaging in a sexual relationship with a 14-year-old. There should be nothing political about it — either you believe in age-of-consent laws or you don’t. That the accused is a hot young blonde sways some; that it was a lesbian relationship appeals to others. And then there are those who feel the need to change the facts so they can feel more comfortable about rationalizing their stances — in this case, shifting the ages of the parties to make it less “icky.”
But those points are irrelevant in the eyes of the law, and that’s how it should be. You’re either for the law or for adults having sex with 14-year-olds.
I oppose it. And I wish I could say that I’m surprised that several here won’t take the same stance.
Icky. Yes. Like throwing around a completely BS accusation that another commentator is “pro-pedophile” – Icky.
Of course, “asshole” works too.
@Current Prosecutor: You state that the public information is clear, then go on to state completely erroneous information. This is the problem with blogs.
The police were absolutely NOT contacted as a result of the runaway situation.
One thing I am not seeing here is that Hunt had any malicious intent. Clearly her actions have been somewhere between foolish and very, very stupid. On the other hand, she is still an inexperienced teenager.
Does she fully grasp the implications of legal adulthood? What is her dating history – is there a pattern with younger girls? Do her feelings for the younger girl appear to be genuine? How intelligent is Hunt? How mature? Does she really grasp the legal issues, or is she wrapped up in an adolescent romantic fantasy about love conquering all?
While there is no doubt that Hunt’s actions have placed her in legal jeopardy, I’m troubled by attempts to villify her – we are, after all, talking about two high school kids here. Hunt did not magically acquire experience and wisdom on her 18th birthday. I think a lot of us did remarkably stupid, and often morally shaky things at 18 & 19. Most of us simply got away with it. This is a normal part of growing up.
So yes, Hunt broke the law. She was foolish. Was she a predator, waiting for an opportunity to swoop in and exploit a younger girl? So far, I have seen no evidence of that, and if we are going to start making moral judgements, I am more inclined to judge some of the alleged adults here who seem very quick to judge/condemn a confused young person in pursuit of their own questionable agendas.
A guy I grew up with went to prison for statutory rape. No one had any sympathy for him, he was 22, well into young adulthood, and the girl was 15. The facts here are a little different.
Did Hunt herself make this claim? If not, are you really saying a young girl should go to prison because of things other people said?
@anjin-san:
What does malicious intent have to do with anything?
Are you not aware that in our justice system, the words wrong and illegal are not always synonymous?
There are many actions which are currently ilegal that a good percentage of citizens might not necessarily consider to be wrong.
Likewise, I can also think of quite a few things that I would consider to be very wrong, but which are none-the-less perfectly legal.
The argument about whether or not what Kaitlyn Hunt did was wrong is immaterial … although it certainly makes for a more interesting debate than whether or not what she did was ilegal … because that part seems pretty clear cut.
My dad was an attorney, I am reasonably well versed for a layman. One of the interesting aspects of our justice system is that it does not promise justice at any point. What is does promise is due process of law. I am not versed in Florida law, but I suspect that the concept of prosecutorial discretion exists there, and intent is often a factor that weights into a decision to prosecute.
Why? Because you say so? Some of the commenters here are trying to demonize Hunt, and I am responding to them. You can argue that right/wrong are irrelevant to the legal aspects of this affair, but I tend to distrust blind law and order arguments. If Hunt can be shown to be a bad kid with a track record of reckless indifference to the consequences of her actions to others, I would be far more inclined to put the hammer down. As it it, I am wondering why people are ready to go nuclear.
Our system does not promise Hunt or any other party here justice. But all of us should hold the concept of justice dear, and be alert for possible miscarriages.
I think a key question is if statutory rape is a strict liability offense in FL.
http://works.bepress.com/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1000&context=chet_palumbo
This looks like relevant reading, it touches on the mens rea issue. Have to get to a BBQ, don’t have time to read it now.
@anjin-san:
I find myself on both sides of this. When it comes to the people who are trying to demonize this girl, I’m right there with you in pushing back.
I’m also not of the opinion that the prosecution *should* “go nuclear” on her. But it sounds like she (through her attorney) chose to go to trial. If she’s convicted, her punishment will certainly be harsher than the plea deal she was offered:
From the link in the original post:
Considering that she confessed to specific actions that are clearly illegal, what part that deal sounds excessive?
As the mother of three daughters in middle-school and high-school, yes I would be furious if an 18-year-old fellow student (male or female) had initiated a relationship with one of them at age 14. I would think it grounds for, perhaps, expulsion from school, being removed from whatever sports team they were on — things that would be painful and embarrassing to the older kid. But ten years in prison? A lifetime on a sex-offender registry? I mean, come on! That’s for the 30-year-old teacher who seduces the highschool freshman. It’s not for the older student who seduces a younger one. The felony conviction offered as a plea deal was also too strict. This should not be the kind of event that completely destroys a kid’s life. That is just wrong. I get that it’s the law, but the law is wrong.
@anjin-san: Would you have the same feelings if the accused here were Kurt Hunt?
@anjin-san: Some day you need to turn off your filters and see the sort of drivel wr routinely puts up here. If you get worked up over my comments, you’d blow a gasket over his. (Presuming, of course, that you’re really bothered by the actual comments, and not the ideology and individuals behind them. If you give him a pass because he’s on your side, then shame on you.)
Alternately, you could hook me up with that filter, and I could go on blissfully without ever seeing his comments, too. In fact, I think I’d prefer the latter.
@superdestroyer: Right on the bean Doc. MS. Hunt is a predator as much as an 18 year old man would be.
No one could argue the 14 year old was mature for her age because the fact that she ran away from home exposes her immaturity.
Hunt found a young- under-aged victim and took advantage of her. Same as if it were two males or a male and female.
Let kids be kids and let them keep their panties on with some adult scheming to see their stuff.
ItYLE@ken: You are absolutely wrong. The victim’s parents reported their daughter missing to the police the day she went missing. What ensued was a completely predictable chain of events leading to a police run phone sting between the reportedly cooperative victim and Ms. Hunt.
@Jenos Idanian: I’m sorry I hurt you little feelings and you feel compelled to respond by accusing young women you’ve never met with pedophilia charges.
Tell you what — since you clearly don’t have the intellectual and emotional maturity to actually stand up for yourself without picking on children, I’ll leave you alone for a while.
Frankly my life will be better when I go back to ignoring your existence anyway.
@ Todd
That’s a pretty deep hole for someone to start their adult life in. That’s were intent and prosecutorial discretion come into play. (IMO) There are a lot of variables, and we only know what the press tells us – not exactly something we can hang our hats on without question.
We do know the case has been politicized, which alters the landscape. Is the prosecutor influenced because they don’t wan’t no damn commie ACLU types telling them how to conduct their business? We also have to look at what kind of advice Hunt is getting from those around her.
I broke the law pretty frequently when I was coming up. So did a lot of the people around me. Most of us eventually became productive, respectable members of society. Some are raging success stories, real movers and shakers.
My first impulse, and probably my second and third, is to find a way to salvage a young person, not punish them. This assumes, as I mentioned earlier, that the kid in question does not have a track record of being bad news.
@ Jenos Idanian
Oh, I think you have already had more attention that you merit.
Yonder lies the corner with the stool and dunce cap. Please proceed.
I will at this point predict that Ms Hunt’s attorney will seek a new plea agreement before trial. Barring that, she may have a case that her attorney provided bad advice and/or improper defence.
What is irrelevant, yet the main focus of Ms Hunts defenders is her sexuality. I reject the notion that homosexuality is a defence for sexual assault of a minor.
@wr: Frankly my life will be better when I go back to ignoring your existence anyway.
I’d almost pay you money to do that.
And you still won’t openly say that you support or oppose the law that makes it illegal for 18-year-olds having sex with 14-year-olds. You know, the original topic of this thread.
@wr
Are you going off topic? You bad boy. I’m telling my mom.
@Alessandra: We currently have a dysfunctional, perverted,
society in terms of sexuality.
http://news.discovery.com/human/violent-crime-statistics-120612.htm
http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/crimestats
@Alessandra: You’re moving the goal posts and you don’t even realize it. You started off saying why wasn’t anonymous doing something about people involved with CP and such and when I point out they are doing everything they can short of going to the house and murdering the people involved you then blame anon for the potential lack of action taken by authorities. It’s blatantly obvious you have no intellectual curiosity and that you only want information force fed to you. When proven wrong by easy to find pesky facts you just move the goalposts instead of taking the initiative and investigating on your own to see what else you might be wrong about.
@Current Prosecutor: suuuure.. You’re just a poor guy trying to fight the good fight against the masses of evil criminals. When one of those criminals turns out to be innocent you still have no choice but to keep them in jail…
http://www.citypaper.net/cover_story/eugene-gilyard-murder-case.html
http://kimberlinunmasked.blogspot.com/2013/04/why-did-prosecutors-refuse-to-charge.html
http://www.thenation.com/article/173452/are-memphis-prosecutors-trying-send-innocent-man-back-death-row
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/case/cases/tpcharles.html
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/case/interviews/gershman.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/29/opinion/justice-and-prosecutorial-misconduct.html?_r=0
It’s odd then that public prosecutors refuse to prosecute certain types of people. It’s also interesting that we can’t hold “rogue” prosecutors accountable for gross negligence when prosecuting people they know are innocent.
Occasionally a prosecutor abuses their power too much and sometimes they get made an example of. Unfortunately that’s far too rare.
http://www.propublica.org/article/reversal-of-fortune-a-prosecutor-on-trial
Meanwhile innocent people will continue to go to jail and be executed because of the ego of public prosecutors.
@Jenos Idanian #13: A “legal adult” who also plays on the same volleyball team. A “legal adult” who is also in the same high school. The “legal adult” who mixes with the “kids” on a daily basis because of how high schools are designed.
So we throw them together in the same box with the same activities and then tell them “you better not develop feelings for your peers because of an arbitrary number!!!”.
I don’t know about the rest of you but I was just as immature at 18 as I was at 16 and I was only a bit more immature at 14. It wasn’t until I hit the 20s that I start finally maturing as a person.
My retort to the prosecutor is stuck in moderation hell. Probably cause of all the links to prosecutors abusing their position by either not charging blatantly guilty men or by charging blatantly innocent men.
@matt: So, I’ll ask you the same question I asked anjin: would you feel the same way if the accused was Kurt Hunt?
@anjin-san: I’ve read that if Kaitlyn had agreed to the plea deal she would of been put on the sex offender registry. If that’s true then I don’t blame her for fighting as that’s the modern day scarlet letter that never goes away. Her life would be pretty much ruined at that point. Might as well attempt to get cleared..
Seeing as how there are people on the list for things like a father who grabbed a girl who was trying to attack his daughter.
OR
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,434645,00.html
Remember kids prosecutors are just doing their job by enforcing the law…You know the same mindset of the people operating the gas chambers…
@Jenos Idanian: Nope as Kurt Hunt is a full sized adult with a fully developed state of mind. Kurt Hunt is also not involved in the same school activities nor in the same building as the girl for 7 hours of the day 5 days of the week.
When you’re in highschool you’re still making mistakes and being stupid. It’s part of growing up and I’m damned glad I never got caught with my mistakes.
@Christopher Bowen: @Christopher Bowen:
Your facts are incorrect. The relationship started with an 18 year old and a 14 year old. Read the police report.
@matt: “Kurt Hunt” is a fictional creation, a masculinization of Kaitlyn Hunt.
@Jenos Idanian: There’s a lot of Kurt Hunts out there so basically I assumed you were talking about one of them in the area where Kaitlyn lives.
I do want to applaud you for at least avoiding the name Mike..
So yeah if this fictional creation existed as a male version of Kaitlyn then I’d still feel the same way. We as a country have been trying too hard lately to ruin the adult lives of kids..
@matt: You’re trying to spare the adult here at the expense of the child. I don’t think that’s that good a tradeoff. I’d be more inclined to keep the status quo — punish the adult to protect the child.
Nearly 200 comments in and mercy still comes up empty. The very best case for this young person is acquittal to be followed by devoting the rest of her life to overcoming expulsion from high school and an arrest record. That should have been enough punishment. When do proportionality and mercy make an appearance?
@rudderpedals: Then, perhaps, the young woman in question should have deferred from breaking the law and having sexual relations with a 14-year-old child.
Elections aren’t the only things that have consequences.
@Jenos Idanian: How is ruining the life of the “adult” going to spare the child?
How is only partially ruining the life of the “adult” going to hurt the child?
The status quo has created a situation where an underage girl taking a picture of herself results in a permanently ruined adulthood thanks to the law.
The status quo has resulted in grandmas/parents being put on the sex offender list for taking pictures of their grandchildren in diapers running around.
The status quo has created a monster of a list that is so out of control that people who break up a fight can end up on the list forever.
The status quo sucks and needs to be reconsidered.
@Christopher Bowen: Speaking of little notes, your info is not correct. Remember that there are two sides to every story, and all everyone has been hearing is only one, and that turns out to be less than truthful. This is not what Kate or her supporters say it is. Check out the latest (the other side of the story): http://spectator.org/blog/2013/05/25/lesbian-teen-kaitlyn-hunt
@Jenos Idanian: Yes yes I concede all of that. The punishment’s the problem, the likelihood of a disproportionate and merciless response with adult penalties against someone not old enough to buy a beer.
You’re right; we wouldn’t. His butt would just be in jail or on probation and he’d be on the sex offender registry for possibly the rest of his life, depending on the state he’s in. In Texas it would be for life, and it wouldn’t matter in the least that he and the “victim” married as soon as they could and have been for close to 20 years.
Unless they are extremely good actors, the younger girl’s parents certainly don’t come off as anything close to the “bad guys” in this story …
http://cbs12.com/news/top-stories/stories/vid_7597.shtml
I’m thinking by the time this is all over a lot of progressives and/or gay rights supporters are going to end up with egg on their faces. Backing this girl is not helping the cause.
I’m a non-church going, generally left-leaning, independent .. in other words someone who’s sympathetic to the gay rights argument .. but I have to say I’m appalled by the idea that this younger gir’s parents have been getting threatening phone calls.
Ideologues on the left who act like assholes are every bit as bad as their right-wing counterparts. (IMO)
Modern conservatives are interesting creatures. They will gladly drone on, hour after hour, about the dangers of government power, and how it opresses citizens. They will bore you to death with screeds about the incompetence and corruption of legislators, and the evils of bureaucrats.
Then, they will happily make a “break the law, go to jail” argument, apparently never stopping to think that criminal penalties are one of the most dramatic (and often egregious) uses of government power, and that laws are made by those same highly imperfect legislators and bureaucrats.
It’s not surprising. Modern conservatism has a strong love of authoritarianism near its core. They have no problem with government power, as long as it is directed at people they don’t approve of. When the conditions are right today’s “conservatives” will grovel before power as eagerly as they grovel before wealth.
The law is (or it certainly should be) our servant, not our master. Though our system does not promise us justice, we should always strive for it. Is ruining the life of a confused young person justice? I don’t see how…
@ Todd
Well, sure, that’s how it works. Take the deal, or we will ruin your life. So if she declines the deal, she deserves to suffer?
“When you’re in highschool you’re still making mistakes and being stupid. It’s part of growing up and I’m damned glad I never got caught with my mistakes.”
Juveniles account for more than one third of those known to police to have committed sex offenses to minors.
Sexual exploitation and abuse of kids does not have to be “part of growing up” – and especially not with impunity.
Kate is a lesbian pig, who has been taught her whole life that her deformed psychology about sexuality is normal, in-born, and that targeting anyone, including kids for perverted sex is exactly normal.
It’s true that the comments here reflect the fact that liberal men like to degrade, exploit, and do sexual harm to others with impunity, or they might not do it themselves but they turn their backs to all the sexuality problems we have in society, so, clearly, they want to promote impunity to sexual offenders and exploiters. They guarantee it for Kate, they guarantee it for themselves and everyone else.
A lot of the comments here are nothing more than “I raped a lot of kids when I was young… why should that ever be considered a problem…”
@ Todd If she’s convicted, her punishment will certainly be harsher than the plea deal she was offered:
anjin-san says: Well, sure, that’s how it works. Take the deal, or we will ruin your life. So if she declines the deal, she deserves to suffer?
So she does, and so do others who go around sexually exploiting children as a way of life. She deserves to go to prison, to serve some time, just as all the other juveniles convicted for the same kind of crime (I’ve read around two years), and she should be registered as a sex offender.
Yeah, that is for life. And then, maybe then, all the liberal adults here and elsewhere who are encouraging their children (teens and young adults) to sexually abuse and exploit any child they feel like it might take notice that they are not entitled to do it.
The sad thing is that her parents and the GLAAD directorate can’t be made to accompany Kate to prison.
anjin-san says: Though our system does not promise us justice, we should always strive for it. Is ruining the life of a confused young person justice?
Her life is not going to be ruined. After she gets out of prison, she will be welcomed at any liberal university with a high rate of promiscuity, sexual harassment, and STD spreading, not to mention abortions. She will get a degree and be invited to join the high ranks of GLAAD to work on their “woman-girl love ” department and promote sexual exploitation of kids across America, throwing hundreds of kids under the bus.
Or she will start her own disguised underage lesbian porn production company and win at Cannes, which promotes adults to target kids as sexual objects in the same way.
There’s the bright future of a homosexual sexual exploiter of our society thanks to liberals. Meanwhile all the kids that are currently being exploited and abused are really having their lives ruined, and they have no rights when it comes to a life without a noxious, harmful environment regarding sexuality.
A parent of the same town as Kate’s was interviewed recently and said he took this opportunity to talk to his 11-yr-old about consequences and responsibilities – the two things liberals hate to face. Oh, on top of how perverted their ideas about sexuality are.
Alessandra > 86?
Really guys, we have crossed over into hate speech here…
Matt said:@Alessandra: You’re moving the goal posts and you don’t even realize it. You started off saying why wasn’t anonymous doing something about people involved with CP and such and when I point out they are doing everything they can short of going to the house and murdering the people involved you then blame anon for the potential lack of action taken by authorities.
I started off by saying Anonymous wasn’t doing anything because that’s the information I had. I don’t know everything Anonymous does about anything – and I doubt very much you do! I’m not moving any goal posts, you have no sense of responsibility, that’s all.
I’m pointing out that you can care less about what happens to people trafficking with child porn – like the rest of the liberals here and elsewhere. Or we would have been informed about what police did with these 190 individuals. That’s what that media should do. That’s what citizens should demand to know.
Additionally, why shouldn’t Anonymous follow up and see what police have done about these child pornographers? Because they should care less about it just like you and all your liberal pals? If police do nothing, Anonymous should expose the fact.
That’s what ethical and responsible people do.
anjin-san says: Alessandra > 86? Really guys, we have crossed over into hate speech here…
======
Yeah, talking about consequences and responsibilities regarding sexual exploitation of children is “hate speech” to you…
Oh, and I just remembered several lines from Michael Swift’s Gay Manifesto, First Published in Gay Community News, Feb. 15-21, 1987
“Since we are alienated from middle-class heterosexual conventions, we are free to live our lives according to the dictates of the pure imagination. For us too much is not enough.”
Indeed, the rape and sexual exploitation of each and every child is never enough for people with a homosexuality agenda, and who think homosexuality is normal. And that’s not talking about the sexual harassment and assault of adults.
The beginning declaration of the Manifesto: “We shall sodomize your sons…”
And they will rape your daughters any time they feel like it.
What has changed in 20 years is that now, sexual exploitation and abuse of children is no longer just a homosexual goal and dream to have instituted in society.
It is very much a new middle- (and upper-) class convention for liberals.
@matt: How is ruining the life of the “adult” going to spare the child?
Who’s ruining the life of the accused here? Seems to me that she did all by herself.
@Alessandra: “Oh, and I just remembered several lines from Michael Swift’s Gay Manifesto, First Published in Gay Community News, Feb. 15-21, 1987”
She’s a raging bigot blinded by her own hatred, and unable to recognize satire. There is no hope.
@anjin-san: Modern conservatives are interesting creatures. They will gladly drone on, hour after hour, about the dangers of government power, and how it opresses citizens. They will bore you to death with screeds about the incompetence and corruption of legislators, and the evils of bureaucrats.
Here’s a hint, anjin: when you find yourselves defending the right of adults to have sexual relations with 14-year-olds to make your political point, you just might be a wee bit too obsessed with making everything a left/right issue.
I’m starting to think Alessandra is a Poe.
@anjin-san: “Really guys, we have crossed over into hate speech here… ”
This woman is seriously disturbed. It’s not just hate speech, it’s a psychotic rant from a lunatic whose terror of sexuality has driven her insane.
Fortunately she’s pretty easy to avoid — she’s just on this one thread, screaming out her vile, disgusting fantasies in a very limited area. If she were to discover the rest of the site, I think that would be a problem. So far her diseased mind seems incapable of investigating anything that doesn’t involve sex.
So let’s all just be glad that this kind of person no longer has any real power in most parts of this country.
@ Jenos
I will see your hint, and raise you a fact. I never “defended the right of adults to have sexual relations with 14-year-olds” – I have been clear that Hunt broke the law. The question is what the penalty should be. Without going back up the thread, I don’t think I mentioned her sexual orientation at all, so I am not sure what “political point” you refer to.
So, you’ve lied about my comments, and you’ve lied about wr’s. When lies are all you have, it’s time to look in the mirror. When you do that, you will see that dunce cap I mentioned earlier is something you wear well.
@wr
Yea, so now we have crazy and stupid/dishonest with us in the sandbox. Makes one miss the “ignore user” feature in the old AOL political chat rooms.
anjin-san says: They were both minors when this started. A 17 year old being interested in a 14 year old is not nefarious, it’s biology. For most of human history, no one would have thought twice about it.
………………..;
Well, it’s been shown that aijin-san was lying about the Kaitlyn’s age to portray her as a “minor” and not as an adult. She was an adult the entire time.
But it’s also obvious that anjin thinks that an 18 yr old sexually exploiting 14 yr old children is not nefarious, it’s what anjin calls “biology”! And if that is “biology,” so is a 20 yr old, or a 25 yr old doing the same thing.
In truth, “biology” (as in biological determination) has nothing to do with having a deformed sexual psychology and ideology that states that targeting children for sex is either wholesome or good – which is what anjin and Hunt think.
Anjin also mentions another statutory rape case:” A guy I grew up with went to prison for statutory rape. No one had any sympathy for him, he was 22, well into young adulthood, and the girl was 15. The facts here are a little different. ”
What can a 20 yr old do to a 14 yr old that an 18 yr old can’t? What can a 22 yr old do to a 14 yr old that an 18 yr old can’t?
There is no difference.
Anjin also very hypocritically stated: I never “defending the right of adults to have sexual relations with 14-year-olds” – I have clear that Hunt broke the law.
Saying that adults having sex with children are not bad, and just acting out “their biology” is clearly defending the right of adults to have sex with children.
You have only acknowledged Kaitlyn broke the law while all the time claiming that her having sex with children is just fine (law aside).
Independently of your sexually abusive perspective regarding children, it doesn’t matter how deformed Kaitlyn’s mind is regarding her targets. It matters that they have a right not to be targeted. In other words, it doesn’t matter if a sexual abuser ever admits that they are sexually exploiting kids, instead of just “loving them and wanting to share a sexual experience” – it’s not for the person doing the sexual exploitation to do the framing.
If that were the case, every time a 30 yr old wanted to introduce an 8 yr old to sex, because they wanted “to share something especial” with the child, we’d have to take their distorted and deformed view of their actions as the truth of what’s going on.
@ Alessandra
I’m sorry, but you really do seem to be more or less unhinged. I will urge you to seek help, but I wont argue with you.
anjin-san said : Was Kaitlyn a predator, waiting for an opportunity to swoop in and exploit a younger girl? So far, I have seen no evidence of that,
Any adult that was not interested in exploiting a child sexually would have left the child alone in the first place.
Secondly, it has been reported that the victim’s parents told the lesbian pig to stay away from their daughter.
Yeah, so it’s clear Kaitlyn not only repeatedly pursued the opportunity she found to exploit the child, but even after warned, she continued to sexually exploit the victim. Predatory.
Game, Set, Match.
According to Sheriff Loar, Ms. Hunt admitted in a Facebook message to the victim that she was aware her relationship was wrong and illegal, AND that she could get in serious trouble for it.
@ Current Prosecutor
I’m afraid you don’t sound like someone who actually works in the criminal justice system. If you did, you would know what an “unsubstantiated claim” – you know, like the one you just made.
http://www.cbs12.com/news/top-stories/stories/vid_7523.shtml?wap=0
@ Current Prosecutor
Has anyone seen the actual transcripts?
You postion seems to be, “the sheriff says you are guilty, so you are” – an odd way of looking at it.
@anjin-san: Sir(?) The confession Ms. Hunt gave says she is guilty. If you want to slap a motor and wheels on the goalposts, go right ahead. My position has been and still is that Ms. Hunt is guilty under the law.
Sadly, all this media attention may give Ms. Hunt the feeling of being a hero on a quest against the great dragon of inequality and social justice.
How many times have we seen instant celebrity status, perceived fame, or a cheering section lead a defendant or plaintiff in civil and criminal cases into making a poor decision in their own interest, while thinking a win will bring further hero status or greater opportunity
She probably is. But a confession is not an absolute. Evidence can get tossed. The sheriff may be mischaracterizing the FB conversation. He is hardly a disinterested party, Hunt has garnered a lot of support. The sheriff may be more concerned with the politics of the situation than the pursuit of justice.
Alessandra has issues. Unfortunately her ilk seems to be the ‘popular’ vote on this site. Odd that up to this point nobody wants to burn florida at the stake for allowing ADULTS(?) to attend school with CHILDREN(?). Kaitlyn was no more an adult than the girl she was having a relationship with.
@anjin-san: I will see your hint, and raise you a fact. I never “defended the right of adults to have sexual relations with 14-year-olds” – I have been clear that Hunt broke the law. The question is what the penalty should be.
You’ve spent pretty much all your energy on attacking those making one side of the argument, and downplayed the actual issue at hand. One can hardly think that you’re coming down on the other side.
The other conclusion that comes to mind is that you don’t think this story is that big a deal; all you want to do is score cheap political points once again.
So, then, what do you think the law ought to be in regards to 18-year-olds who have sexual relations with 14-year-olds?
@ Jenos Idanian
Damn dude, the rocks are insulting each other by saying “You’re as dumb as Jenos”
And Jenos, before you make a failed attempt at a clever comeback – buzz off. Your pedophile rant on this thread shows, once again, that you are an idiot studying to be a moron, and not doing a very good job of it. Go find some other dunces, and confederate with them.
Kevin irrationally claims (out of desperation, I suppose): “Kaitlyn was no more an adult than the girl she was having a relationship with. ”
Heh! So if you are an adult and have sex with an 18 yr old and a 14 yr old, it’s all the same, because they are both children!
It’s a new twist on how liberals promote sexual exploitation and rape of children. An 18 yr old adult who has sex with a child is not really an adult, so it’s OK.
And that brings us to how unhinged liberals are concerning another issue: it’s fine for children to have sex! There is no other logical conclusion possible after this: child porn must therefore be fine too; and why not child prostitution?
Once again, number of pedophiles and people intent on sexually exploiting kids in GLAAD and the Democratic party is clearly not small…
=====================
@Current Prosecutor –
the lesbian pig’s father was forced to resign after misconduct:
May 21, 2004 — WEST MELBOURNE, Fla. – A police officer involved in a nightclub quarrel resigned after an internal affairs review showed he pressured a victim not to file a battery charge, officials said Thursday. Sgt. Steve Hunt, who joined the West Melbourne Police Department in 1996, resigned Tuesday after the internal investigation on official misconduct allegations was completed. Reports show Hunt lied to his supervisors about contacting a man he had gotten into an argument with on Oct. 11.
Robert Stacy McCain is also reporting that he was arrested.” Think about it: Dad gets arrested April 2012. Daughter gets arrested February 2013.”
Name: Steven R. Hunt
Location: Palm Bay, Florida
Age: 35 years
Processing Date: 04-22-2012
Alleged Violation: FELONY DEPOSIT W/INTENT TO DEFRAUD
@Alessandra: Is there a source identifng Ms. Hunt’s Father Steven R. Hunt as the same Sgt. Steve Hunt?
If this is the same man, and the online videos claiming to be Kaitlyn Hunt engaged in raucous behaviour are legitimate, the Hunt family has made a serious miscalculation in bringing this case to the public square.
Assuming they are (for the sake of argument only), Ms Hunt has caused much damage to herself and her family.
It’s worth noting that Ms. Hunt’s defenders have given not a moments thought to the long lasting effects this entire issue has and will have on the VICTIM.
Information put out by the Sheriff’s office indicate the victim has cooperated with the investigation and participated in the telephone sting. Hardly the act of someone “in true love” as has been suggested.
In these types of cases many times the victims resort to relocating to find some measure of peace. Two families lives turned upside down for one woman’s actions. Sympathy for Ms. Hunt is fading quickly.
@Alessandra: “child porn must therefore be fine too; and why not child prostitution? ”
What a shock — another right-winger with absolutely no understanding of the idea of consent.
Current Prosecutor says: @Alessandra: Is there a source identifng Ms. Hunt’s Father Steven R. Hunt as the same Sgt. Steve Hunt?
I don’t know. It was on McCain’s Tweets. He would have been quite young if it’s the same guy.
==============
Another wonderful tidbit- the lesbian pig’s father got caught on another lie:
He wrote: It was Kate’s senior year — she only had a few months until graduation and we wanted her to finish. But the parents petitioned the court and asked the judge to remove Kate from school, even though the judge already ruled Kate could continue school. But this other student’s parents feel like my daughter “made” their daughter gay.
Then he wrote: These people never came to us, never tried to speak to us, didn’t try to get the school involved to speak to us and tell us they had a problem with the girls dating, not one single word.
Commenter:
The father in this article claims how they never heard a peep out of the 14 year old’s parents. Several paragraphs later, he claims the 14 year old’s parents petitioned the school to have Kate expelled, PRIOR to the arrest. So, was that not a peep?
………
Let’s recap:
The basketball coach told Kate that since she decided to have “something” with children – she was off the team. What did the junk of Kate’s parents tell her? We can only imagine. Tell the coach to go to hell and you go rape any girl you want to. (BTW, kudos to the coach)
Then the school expels Kate for sexually exploiting the victim on school premises. What did the junk of Kate’s parents tell her? We can only imagine. Tell the school administrators to go to hell and you go rape any girl you want to.
Then Kate “runs away” with victim – don’t know if that is legally considered some kind of a crime since it’s a minor – and what did the junk of Kate’s parents tell her?
All these people are hatin’ on you! Go rape another kid and show them, Kate. You’re a pig of a lesbian who targets children for sex, but we’re right behind you. Everyone: Support sexual exploitation of children – buy a Kate bracelet! Once you’re out of jail, we’ll set up a father and daughter child porn operation – because we’re liberals and we’re so progressive.
And to end with McCain’s gem:
The Bisexual Coalition for Teenage Toilet Sex could not be reached for comment.
@anjin-san: I love the fact that you were chided for “not thinking this story is a big deal.”
Imagine that — a teenage girl in Florida has a romance and sexual relationship with another teenage girl in Florida, and you don’t think this is a big deal, and that it’s incredibly pressing business that we must all be hideously upset about.
Clearly the sex lives of these two teenage girls is something we must as Americans devote considerable time and attention to. After all, don’t you realize how much is resting on this? We’re talking about two teenage girls in a country of only 300 million people, man!
So shame on you for not thinking about this story every waking moment of the day. You know the trolls around here — the ones who’ve never actually gotten close to a girl, at least — are spending lots and lots and lots of quality time on the subject.
@wr: The victim is incapable of giving consent. Therefore, there was no consent.
@Current Prosecutor: “Sympathy for Ms. Hunt is fading quickly”
What sympathy? You’ve been screaming for her to be put in the stocks since your first posting here. You are desperate to see this girl’s life ruined, first for the sexual act, then for the far more unforgivable sin of dissing the prosecutor.
@Alessandra: “child porn must therefore be fine too; and why not child prostitution? ”
wr says: What a shock — another right-winger with absolutely no understanding of the idea of consent.
Tell us, wr, when you engage to produce child porn with children like the victim in this case, with their consent, what is it that “right-wingers” do not understand?
@wr: I said she should have taken the plea and likely would be prosecuted ‘harder’ for turning it down. I never said she should be.
Now, however? Give her 15, she fought for it. Is that what you want me to say?
@ wr
I guess I am just not a big picture guy.
@michael reynolds: Why can’t you people understand we do not hate nor are we fearful of queers ? We are disgusted by your behavior. And it is our right as Americans to think you are disgusting. This girl commited a crime and should be prosecuted like anyone else. Her parents should be sued for defamation for what they did to the victims family. All the news outlets and bloggers who falsely reported this story before the facts were known should also be sued.
If the need for a sting doesn’t set off duress and coercion alarm bells then you may be too credulous. “You do what they say young lady or you’re not living here” is a pretty big stick against a 15 year old. Imagine the defense’s ballsiness has something to do with something not well known yet, perhaps regarding an abusive situation at the 15 year old’s home. Counsel might not be such a dumbass afterall.
One thing that jumps out at me about the comments here is that some people either never experienced, or have completely forgotten, just how overwhelming and confusing teenage love/infatuation and early sexual encounters can be.
Hunt was the same person on her eighteenth birthday as she was the day before. The only difference is in the eyes of the law. One day you are a minor and the next an adult. It’s an arbitrary line that you are pushed over, ready or not.
If there is, as has been claimed, messages in which Hunt said, “I know this is wrong” that would change things. So far, all we have is claims. I am just not rocked by a four year difference in a teenage romance. It certainly happened when I was coming up. They were kids going to school together, engaging in activities together. If it was a 20 year old going to high school parties to troll for 16 year olds, I would look at it a bit differently.
There is nothing cosmic about a 14 year old being sexually active. Happens all the time. If Hunt had been a year younger, we would not be here. But a date clicked on the calendar, and suddenly everyday teenage activity becomes criminal. I still see zero evidence Hunt acted with malice – so far it looks like a teenage romance gone very messy.
We also don’t know that the younger girl was harmed by the relationship. It’s at least possible that the relationship harmed her not at all, and the subsequent turmoil and publicity have harmed her a great deal.
I had the same though. We have no idea what kind of pressure might have been brought to bear on the younger girl. When I was in high school, I would not have willingly participated in a sting against my worst enemy.
@rudderpedals: Wow. Since you bring it up, however, statistically speaking Ms. Hunt is very likely to have been the victim of abuse herself. Sexual abuse is a vicious cycle wherein the victim often becomes the abuser.
@ Current Prosecutor
So you regard two kids in high school having sex as “sexual abuse”?
@michael reynolds: So breaking the law is ok ? You must be one of the perverts we should watch out for.
@anjin-san: Ms Hunt is an adult, her victim is a child. Ms Hunt is charged with a sex crime. So, yeah.
Using your “highschoolers” logic let me pose a hypothetical:
Say ‘Little Man Tate’, the precoscious 10 year old genius from the movie had sexual contact with an 18 year old fellow high school student. Is that sexual abuse?
@anjin-san:
Same here. The snitching issue aside there are all the other problems to solve such as tolerating life in the community where all of your neighbors and classmates know who you are. This doesn’t end well for anyone.
I’m bothered by the lesbian angle (not in the way Alessandra and her ilk is), but more so in the way it’s being used.
I can possibly buy the idea that maybe the fact that this was a same sex relationship might have had a little bit to do with it getting reported (by the gym coach). But let’s be real, all this publicity that’s happening now, is only because of Ms. Hunt’s sexual orientation.
If this was a story about the male 18 year old quarterback of the football team being caught in the school bathroom with his hands down to the pants of a 14 year old girl, the reactions (if it was discussed outside the local area at all) would most likely fall into two categories:
1) Those who think: Man, there’s only a 4 year age gap, kind of a shame he’s gonna get in trouble. But dumb ass should have known better than to go after “jailbait”.
2) And those who want to see him strung up by his balls.
Without the homosexuality angle, people like Alessandra probably wouldn’t be interested in this conversation at all. But ironically, I don’t think it’s a stretch to imagine that at least a percentage of those currently in the “oh poor Kate” camp would be calling for the “string him up by his balls” option if it were a male football player.
I’m not criticizing Ms Hunt because I’m “anti-gay”. On the contrary, I support gay marriage and other forms of equality … and I think situations like this hurt that cause … because it seems to be an instance where Conservatives can spout their tired old “they want special treatment because they’re gay” crap, and actually be correct.
@Current Prosecutor: OK then. How much weight do you assign to that in mitigation?
@ Current Prosecutor
So if the sex takes place two days before Hunt turns 18, its teenagers fooling around, and two days after it’s “sexual abuse”…
I suppose you could see it that way if the law is a monolith that cannot take any human variables into account. Personally, I find this sort of literal thinking in the application of the law a bit chilling.
An 18 year old having sex with a 10 year old is pedophelia, under any circumstances. You are comparing apples to kidney pie.
Are you really telling me that when you were in high school, no seniors dated freshmen? That no juniors went sniffing for hot 8th graders? Where did you grow up?
@ Todd
I think 80-90% would fall in this camp. I almost certainly would. My feelings on the matter would be influenced by their history – were they boyfriend/girlfriend, or was it an older guy looking for one time easy pickings?
@rudderpeddles
It’s much worse today. You can’t just move and start over. Your reputation can follow you via the internets.
@anjin-san: In the ‘Tate’ scenario, both are in high school, and the younger would be arguably more mature. So you do draw an arbitrary line somewhere. In the real world that arbitrary line is at 18.
Two days before she turned 18, Ms Hunt could not buy a pack of cigarettes or a shotgun. Then as if by magic (or what we call the law) she could 2 days later.
The line exists, if you choose to blur the line or move it back, why stop at 14? Why not 10?
Do you see how this works now?
@Alessandra: Alessandra, I’m on your side
@anjin-san:
Well, that’s sort of my feelings about Kaitlyn Hunt.
I think the law is arbitrary and not always evenly applied. I think it’s a shame that her life is going to be negatively impacted by a stupid teenage decision. But I also think that either she did know, or should have known, that what she was doing was against the law.
Ultimately, she chose start a relationship with someone 4 years younger. The law says there are potential consequences for that choice. At some point, even teenagers have to take responsibility for their dumb decisions. As parents we can only hope that the worst of their dumb decisions come before they turn 18, when they’re still primarily accountable to us, instead of the law.
If one of my kids came to me in a situation like this (having confessed to a crime), even if I thought the law they broke was total bullshit, my priority would be in finding a way to keep them out of jail, as opposed to trying to keep them from being in trouble at all.
Kaitlyn Hunt should have taken the plea deal. (IMO)
That would be a bad argument. Intelligence does not automatically equate to maturity, and emotional/sexual maturity and intellectual maturity do not necessarily run along parallel tracks. The brightest 10 year old in the world might function successfully in a high school classroom, but he/she will be a lost child in the gym, at a football game, or anywhere else in the high school world.
Do you argue this poorly at your job?
No argument there. Of course a huge percentage of teenagers will blow through that barrier without a lot of thought. In either case, both kids have both probably been massively screwed up by this affair at this point. It’s a shame the adults involved could not do a better job of dealing with the situation.
@Alessandra: Alessandra seems to be quite a bit smarter than the rest of you folks.
I would want to know someting about the socio-economic status of both families before I made a judgement on this.
TNE8 years ago one of the ADA’s in our office had a niece run away from home. She turned herself in to the local Sheriff’s Dept six months later. She tested positive for marijuana, hydrocodone, and pregnancy. She had her 16th birthday while missing. When questioned about the babies father she refused to give his name and location because he was 26 and she stated she had deceived the man about her age. The girl ended up sitting in juvenile detention for the majority of her pregnancy when she could have given the man’s name and went home at any time. Her reason? She claimed ‘true love’. We wanted this guy. We wanted him badly. The judge eventually set her free under the condition that the man’s name be given to her (the judge) and would be held confidential unless the girl made contact with the man before she was of age. My colleagues didn’t agree but there was nothing we could do about it. Once she reached legal age the girl left home and returned to her child’s father. Case closed. This case inspired me to ask my colleague about his niece. Apparently, the two are married with three children today and spent the holiday as an accepted part of her family, including my colleague.
Todd wrote: “Without the homosexuality angle, people like Alessandra probably wouldn’t be interested in this conversation at all.”
This is as much true as if I say that you “probably go raping and murdering kids every day. ”
Your ignorant ideology normalizing homosexuality engenders very significant violence by homosexual and bisexual perpetrators. You know, the ones you pretend don’t exist.
your homosexuality agenda has certainly played a key part in this case (and in most current cases involving a homosexual/bisexual perpetrator). If liberals were not pushing to shove homosexuality as normal in the mind of every kid, this case would have probably never happened.
@Neil Hudelson: Shall we point out all the descrepencies, spelling,punctuation,and grammatical errors in your paragraph ?
@anjin-san:
On that I agree, although maybe not in exactly the same way (as I expect you’re talking about the 14 year old’s parents).
Being a father of 7 (two 18+), I think every parent of teenagers has a responsibility to make sure that their kids are aware that the day they turn 18, their actions could have drastically different consequences than they did the day before. My favorite example is getting into a fight. If you get into a fight at school when you’re 16 or 17, (these days) the police will probably be called, but you’ll also probably be released to your parents. If you’re 18, you’ll most likely be arrested, and someone’s going to have to bail you out of jail.
21 is another one of threshold ages that’s going to trigger a conversation with my son. Something along the lines of: “I know that you and your friends sometimes drink. Once you’re 21, you’d be wise to never be in the same room with alcohol (whether you bought it or not), and drunk people under the age of 21.”
@anjin-san: The reason I chose that character from that movie was precisely becaue the point of the movie was he was more mature than his own mother. Which renders your comment moot.
@ Current Prosecutor: Ms Hunt is an adult, her victim is a child. Ms Hunt is charged with a sex crime. So, yeah.
anjin-san says:So if the sex takes place two days before Hunt turns 18, its teenagers fooling around, and two days after it’s “sexual abuse”…
Wrong, it is exploitation and abuse before and after.
I’m talking about ALL the adults.
anjin-san says: I am just not rocked by a four year difference in a teenage romance. It certainly happened when I was coming up.
Toldya:
A lot of the comments here are nothing more than “I raped a lot of kids when I was young… why should that ever be considered a problem…”
@Tony W: Sorry little fellow. Alessandra is a towering intellect compared with you.
Never saw the movie. I’m not discussing films here, we are talking about real people. The hypothetical is irrelavant. A normal 14 year old has at least some sexual potential, perhaps a great deal. I can think of no circumstance where a normal person, teenager or older, would be sexually attracted to a 10 year old. I think we all agree that kind of attraction is sick.
@anjin-san:
The 14 year old’s parents have absolutely no responsibility to look out for the best interests of Kaitlyn Hunt … only those of their own daughter.
Why on earth Kaitlyn Hunt’s parents would let her bring a 14 year old run-away to stay with them when she was already 18 is beyond me.
Current Prosecutor says: @Alessandra: Is there a source identifng Ms. Hunt’s Father Steven R. Hunt as the same Sgt. Steve Hunt?
p.s. in any case, if I remember correctly, Steven Hunt himself wrote that he is an “ex-cop.” Given that he is rather young, it will be very interesting to know the reason for his early retirement, expulsion, arrest, whatever, along with detailed information about his potential disgraceful performance as a policeman.
Lawrence says: @Alessandra: Alessandra, I’m on your side
Hey Lawrence! Thanks for your comments! A virtual high 5
You noticed the long list of ad hominem attacks from the little liberal intellectual poodles on this thread.
anjin ran away from the debate as fast as he could! LOL
@James in Silverdale, WA: James , Does the truth terrify and horrify you ? You sound so dainty..Consequently there are many millions who agree with Alessandra. We don’t care what you stick up your butt, but we and our children do not want to hear about it.We as Americans reserve the right to consider you behavior disgusting !
@Alessandra: Alesssandra, I have liked most everything you said in previous posts, but this one goes a little overboard. The punchline insult I think was unnecessary.
When I was in my teens and 20s, I knew three young women who had relationships with their high school teachers — in one case, with her principal.
Frankly, I found all of these cases shocking and embarrassing at the time. Especially the first, which occurred in my own high school . The girl had been 15 and he was probably 30 when this relationship began, and I found it all pretty awful. However, the two of them stayed together for over 20 years, during which time they married, she completed a PhD, got an excellent job, and had two children with him. So, might I have been wrong? I mean, this couple was more successful in lots of personal and social ways than most marriages.
Both of the other women told me that their relationships with their teacher/principle had been incredibly important to them. One married the teacher. In the other case, the principle went to jail, for which my friend felt utterly guilty for years and years. Her shrink, who she was seeing because her mother had died, had turned him in.
These things happened in the 1980s. I still don’t feel terribly comfortable about any of them. I don’t think it was wrong that the principle went to jail. But I do feel as if our society has swung rather too far in the opposite direction. It’s right that we punish the teacher of the 15-year-old now, but it’s nuts that we also criminalize a barely-adult high school student for having a relationship with a younger student — also not uncommon with even “nice” kids at my small-town school.
The issue reminds me of fist-fights between boys, which were a pretty common thing when my dad and even my brother were in school. Back then, you got sent to the principal’s office. Now, you get arrested and sent to “juvie”, where you hang out with criminals and learn to identify as one yourself.
I think there has been a drive to criminalize forms of behavior that ought to be dealt with outside of the criminal justice system. Older teens sleeping with younger teens falls into that category. It’s not helpful to anybody, especially to our society as a whole, to transform hormone-driven 18-year-olds into felons, a label that truly transforms the one who bears it.
I can only speak for me – part of being a mature person is a willingness to seek equitable outcomes for all parties in a difficult situation. If I was the parent of the 14 year old, and the immediate crisis was past, I would ask myself if Hunt’s actions were driven by affection/love or malice and/or a lack of concern for the well being of my daughter.
If it were the former, I would look for a way to ring Hunt’s bell without really hurting her, and tell her to stay away from my daughter for the next 4 years or the gloves would come off.
@ ElizaJane
Things have changed, for sure. Back in the 70s we went through being crazy teenagers without a lot of intervention. You had to work pretty hard to really get in trouble. There was a level of self-policing among us that I don’t think exists now, if you got too far out of line, your peers would often snap you back.
This has NOTHING to do with her being gay. This has everything to do with the draconian laws which are on the books. Young adults are on the registry due to looking at pornography, having consensual sex, and many other non-violent crimes. This is equal opportunity for all unfortunately. If the gay population would just see what is happening they may help us get these laws changed. Not put gay against heterosexual. This is ONE SIZE fits all laws. These laws have destroyed many lives who just made ONE non-violent mistake.
@anjin-san:
Yes (feeling really OLD here) — the kind of 18-year-old boy who would have happily dated a 15-year-old girl back in the day would NEVER have taken advantage of a girl who’d had too much to drink, for instance. He would have punched anybody who had tried to do that, and then would have helped her to climb back into her bedroom window so her parents wouldn’t know she’d been getting wild. So yes, the ability to self-police and the willingness of peers to rein in their friends’ excesses has really shifted. But is criminalizing so much normal teen behavior the cause, or the effect, of that? How to describe that relationship? As the mom of 3 teen-agers, these are issues that get discussed plenty in our household.
anjin said: “A normal 14 year old has at least some sexual potential, perhaps a great deal. I can think of no circumstance where a normal person, teenager or older, would be sexually attracted to a 10 year old. I think we all agree that kind of attraction is sick. ”
I can think of no circumstance where a normal person (an adult) would want to have sex with a 14 yr old, unless they were a pedophile.
I think sane people all agree how sick such people are.
@ ElizaJane
When I grew up, it was a lot like Happy Days, with the addition of drugs and nightclubbing in San Francisco. We were lucky to be in that place at that time.
I’m not unhappy that I came up in a time that allowed me to be at least somewhat innocent. Now I know too much, and I would like to forget some of it.
@Alessandra:
SIgh. If you think it impossible or even abnormal for any 18-year-old to find any 14-year-old attractive, then you have not spent much time lately in a high school or around teen culture. Not even to mention the fact that throughout human history this kind of age difference at this age has been utterly normal. It may not be ideal but “pedophile” is really going too far. Immature, OK. Pedophile, not.
anjin said: “We also don’t know that the younger girl was harmed by the relationship. It’s at least possible that the relationship harmed her not at all, ”
But since when does someone with the mind of a pedophile “know” about the harm they do to children or that other children suffer?
Denying to themselves the harm they do to children is usually an essential way that pedophiles rationalize their abuse of children as an appropriate activity.
Sexual exploitation and grooming of kids involves all kinds of emotional and psychological manipulation that quite often are not understood or perceived by superficial onlookers. The adult wants their perverse gratification from the kid and they know how to manipulate the kid to get it. They can call this a “romance” any time they want. They want to spend time with the kid, they want to be considered the dominant “adult” figure in the child’s mind, they want the child to be emotionally dependent on them, etc. And they want their perverse sex with the kid.
As a smaller detail, typical in kids that are being sexually exploited is running away at some point. I also can’t imagine this case without plenty intra-familial strife that must have negatively impacted the girl victim.
Short of the victim in this case trying to commit suicide or doing some extreme action that signals trouble, all the pedophiles in the world can claim that the girl suffered nothing “for all they know.”
Psychological troubles caused by sexual exploitation can be hard to be immediately identified. But they can manifest themselves is myriad spheres of a victim’s life in the short or long term.
We do know that this girl victim will never know what it is like to grow up and make her own decision regarding sex, as a young adult, which she is not, without being the target of a lesbian pig long before that.
ElizaJane says:
@Alessandra:
SIgh. If you think it impossible or even abnormal for any 18-year-old to find any 14-year-old attractive, then you have not spent much time lately in a high school or around teen culture. Not even to mention the fact that throughout human history this kind of age difference at this age has been utterly normal. It may not be ideal but “pedophile” is really going too far. Immature, OK. Pedophile, not.
==============
ElizaJane – do you know the difference between finding someone attractive and having sex with them?
Try reading what I said again. There are two situations here that blur at some point: If you find 14 yr olds sexually attractive, you are a pedophile -since I imagine you are quite older than 18.
As regards 18 yr olds who find 14 yr olds sexually attractive, anyone who is 18 and HAS SEX with a 14 yr old is a pedophile – they are exploiting a child for sex.
If Ms Hunt is being persecuted for havin a same-sex consensual relationship, the people attacking the little girl’s family are doin it because she’s bi-racial.
ElizaJane says: Not even to mention the fact that throughout human history this kind of age difference at this age has been utterly normal.
You certainly don’t know a pumpkin about human history…
Just for the record, since two different idiots have gotten it wrong here – a pedophile is someone who is interested in pre-pubescent children. There are actually two factors that disqualify Hunt from being defined as a pedophile.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia
Leveling a charge of Pedophilia against someone who is clearly not a pedophile is actually more than a bit sick in of itself. It takes what, 15 seconds to get actual facts from the Googles…
@anjin-san: OK, fine, it wasn’t pedophilia. It was a simple case of a legal adult finger-banging a 14-year-old in a high school bathroom. Then a legal adult having a 14-year-old runaway showing up at her door and taking the runaway to bed for more sexual contact. Nothing to see here, move along…
While one can restrict the definition of pedophile to pre-pubescent children only , the general sense of pedophile (outside a certain type of scholarly articles) is one of an adult who sexually abuses or exploits a child. “Child” here has a lot of latitude, including being often interchanged with “minor,” that is, a youngster that is not yet considered an adult.
If an adult has an interest in sexually abusing or exploiting a child going through puberty in the very same way as if the child were pre-pubescent, calling this adult a pedophile is an appropriate use of the term.
It serves to highlight that they are exploiting the child for their own perverted sexual benefit – such as in the case of Kaitlyn.
While the term ephebophile exists, it’s simply not used by the general public. The general public understands the word “pedophile” however.
Therefore, pedophile is the right term to use in general discussions of this case because it’s a term that everyone understands and denotes a dysfunctional and exploitative attitude to sex with minors.
So, people with a pedophile ideology like anjin want to target children going through puberty for sex and legitimize them being sexually exploited and abused by others while claiming that this is not exploitative, because, according to him, sexual exploitation (or pedophilia) can only happen in regard to toddlers. That’s the fallacy of his argument. Teens (and certainly even adults) can be profoundly damaged by sexual manipulation and exploitation, or damaged in various degrees even if not in the most profound ones, depending on individual factors, and it is certainly a lie that only pre-pubescent children will suffer from sexual exploitation.
That’s why “pedophile” is appropriate to describe Kaitlyn – it highlights the predatory nature of her mindset and the exploitative nature of the way she views sex. Obviously this is aside from the fact that she has a homosexual problem – she is completely deformed in terms of her sexuality – she has too many warped psychological problems in regard to establishing healthy relationships with boys, so only a tip of the iceberg of how sexually perverted she is towards girls.
And yes, it would be very interesting to know just how this entire Hunt family thinks about sexuality. They have a warped daughter and it appears they want her to rape kids as much as she wants. These are not the kinds of people who can ascertain what child sexual exploitation is or if and how it happened in this case. The same goes for her supporters.
And the same for anjin’s argument that unless a child in puberty commits suicide as a consequence of them being targeted for sex by adults, no harm was done.
While we don’t know about much in this case, this short description of how a pedophile operates raises questions about how Kaitlyn targets girls:
Pedophiles work to master their manipulative skills and often unleash them on troubled children by first becoming their friend, building the child’s self esteem. They may refer to the child as special or mature [which Kaitlyn actually did], appealing to their need to be heard and understood then entice them with adult type activities that are often sexual in content.
It is not unusual for the child to develop feelings for the predator and desire their approval and continued acceptance. They will compromise their innate ability to decipher good and bad behavior.
With teens, they can also engage in sex as a way to rebel against parents if there were issues before. They can also justify the criminal’s bad behavior out of sympathy and concern for the adults welfare
…………..
I can imagine all of this, or something similar, in this case. But that’s speculation.
@Alessandra: “Teens (and certainly even adults) can be profoundly damaged by sexual manipulation and exploitation, ”
And here we are… In Allessandra-world, even sex between consenting adults is actually “pedophilia,” because sex is in itself explicity manipulative and exploitative.
What’s hilarious about this is that she’s making common cause with people she would immediately label as “pigs” — the craziest of the anti-sex feminists from the 1970s like Andrea Dworkin, who considered all sex to be rape.
What’s not so funny is how deeply disturbed this poor woman is. Apparently it’s not just incipient mass shooters who are being missed by our mental health system.
@Alessandra: “Teens (and certainly even adults) can be profoundly damaged by sexual manipulation and exploitation, ”
wr says: In Allessandra-world, even sex between consenting adults is actually “pedophilia,” because sex is in itself explicity manipulative and exploitative.
“Can be” does not equal “is.”
Therefore:
1) “Teens (and certainly even adults) can be profoundly damaged by sexual manipulation and exploitation, ”
And
2) “Teens (and certainly even adults) are all profoundly damaged by sexual manipulation and exploitation, ”
are two very different things. I said 1, not 2. Try again if you are ever capable of understanding the difference between the two.
And… let’s ask again:
when you engage to produce child porn with children like the victim in this case, with their consent, what is it that “right-wingers” do not understand?
@Alessandra: These bozos are trying to distract from the real topic at hand by getting into fights over semantics and abstractions, letting them get away from the real topic at hand.
Is there any particular reason you’re playing along with them?
Jenos, they can try distractions if they want – it’s just another opportunity to respond and address what I see as important issues.
BTW, here’s another good article that just came out:
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2013/05/m-kaitlin_hunt_gay_heroine.html
May 28, 2013
Kaitlyn Hunt, Gay Heroine
J.R. Dunn
a few good comments too
Well, I see the lowest common denonometer has been found.
@anjin-san: Oh, I dunno. I think you can find a few more ways to avoid talking about — let alone condemning — legal adults finger-banging 14-year-old girls in public bathrooms…
@ Jenos
You keep repeating this. It’s clear you find the subject matter titillating, and it’s also clear you don’t realize just how much this says about you.
Well, you never were big on self awareness.
@anjin-san: You objected to the generalized “pedophilia” term, getting all wrapped up in semantics, so I went for a more specific description.
It turns out I’ve simply given you yet another excuse to avoid talking about the topic at hand — a legal adult having sexual relations with a 14-year-old girl.
You objected to the
generalizedtotal bullshit/blatant lie “pedophilia” termFTFY
@Christopher Bowen: Except, that isn’t true. Kaitlyn turned 1 before the two girls met.
@michael reynolds: The younger girl COULD NOT consent to a sexual relationship, because she was 14.
@anjin-san: At what point will you actually address the issue?
My money’s on the 12th of Never.
holy cripes, do people not read the thread before they comment?
@slimslowslider: That takes ALL the fun out of it.
Spoilsport…
Everyone but you and your pal Alessandra is addressing the issue – what is an appropiate penalty for Hunt, who has clearly broken the law.
Your concern for the well being of young girls is touching. Well it would be, if you had not publicly libeled a young girl, Hunt, by characterizing her as a pedophile. I wonder what would happen if you said something like that in the same room as her father…
But we all know that you only peddle slime when you are hiding behind a computer. So, return to your Rain Man like fixation on what happened during intimate moments between these two young girls.
@michael reynolds: Except even at 17, it still would have been illegal because the younger girl was only 14.
@anjin-san: Your stinging condemnation cuts me to the quick. For some kind of penitence, should I go bang a 14-year-old, set some bombs, or kill a cop?
Those seems to be the path to redemption from leftists…
But back to the subject at hand: yes, she broke the law and should be punished. It only took you this long to acknowledge it.
When it comes to punishing the guilty, there are aggravating and mitigating circumstances. I see aggravating circumstances — aiding and abetting the runaway, engaging in sex acts in public. Feel free to cite any mitigating circumstances you see.
“Conservatives want her punished” is hardly a good argument, but it’s about your standard…
@ Jenos
You may be the stupidest person I have even encountered. Let’s go back to one of your own comments:
Here’s a hint. May 27 was yesterday. Actually, there are three or for places on this thread I’ve discussed Hunt’s breaking the law, and what the penalty should be. You’ve already acknowledged it.
What a sad little man you are. Well, it’s my own fault for wasting even a single breath on you.
@JerryWI: If a high school senior wanted to date my fourteen year old daughter (who, in actuality, is 6 right now), I would talk to him or her with my child, and preferably his or her parents. I would offer them time to spend together in my home/company to show that I supported their feelings but would maintain supervision. I would allow them to go to a prom, and I would chaperone and forbid the “after” activities, such as parties, until my daughter was older. If there were problems (lying/sneaking around, a lack of respect for our rules, etc), I would, of course, pursue additional action, including closer monitoring of my own child’s free time, discussions with the other parent/school administrators, and, if totally necessary, restraining orders and other legal documents. I think the actions taken by the parents of the 14 year old are unfounded, as they did not seem to consider any of the above listed strategies, or any other options that may have curbed the behavior they disliked without charging a high schooler with crimes that could result in life-long consequences. A “friend of the parents” “warned” Kate? There were “two verbal warnings”? It seems like the parents of the 14 year old were a bit lazy and out for blood. Man, woman, gay, straight. . . I wish parents would actually parent their children and teach them to be responsible for their own actions. The example these parents are setting sends the message that the 14 year old is not responsible for what she does consensually. How old can she get and still use such an excuse? As parents, it is our job to prepare our children for the situations they will encounter and give them the tools to make good choices. They won’t always do that, but they should be able to lean from the missteps. It just doesn’t sit right with me to wage war against another high schooler for the consensual behavior my highschooler chose to involve herself in.
@ blake
You sound like you are a pretty good parent.
Hey Alessandra, why no comments on the Volokh Conspiracy post about this story?
blake: “I wish parents would actually parent their children and teach them to be responsible for their own actions.”
Like as in “you can go rape and molest any kid you want and we will help you never face the consequences or be brought to jail”?
Yes, your kind of parenting!
=============
“The example these parents are setting sends the message that the 14 year old is not responsible for what she does consensually.”
The example Kate, her parent, and her supporters want to set is that 14 yr olds are now responsible for their sexual exploitation and rape by adults!
One good thing this case shows: how harmful and predatory liberals are when it comes to sexuality.
BTW, one common feature in the profile of pedophiles is that they blame the children they abuse for “seducing” themselves, the adult. That’s the framing of sexual abuse by a pedophile. It’s exactly what we see here.
=============
slimslowslider says: Hey Alessandra, why no comments on the Volokh Conspiracy post about this story?
I think you’re trolling 🙂
I think you know something about the history of the VC blog and the fact that Volokh and other of his co-bloggers systematically ban commenters who challenge his liberal homosexuality/porn/prostitution agenda. The man is as morally defective as they come. Like you perhaps?
I think you know that Volokh goes on his banning sprees all the while as portraying himself as some great defender of free speech! Nothing says hypocrisy like a liberal.
Most of the best social conservative commenters that have tried to post on VC have all been banned. Volokh et al can’t win his morally corrupt arguments on his threads, therefore he bans social conservative commenters in order to embarrass himself and his pals less.
People make mistakes. Girls have had sex since they went through puberty for many, many years. A girls body is ready for sex but their mind is not but many years ago this is the way it was. My husbands mother was married at 13. This was not long ago, 55 years ago. The problem I see is we have “sex” all over. Schools hand out condoms, birth control, abortions and other things without parents permission. There is sexual innuendos all over this country. Kids are going to have sex, look at pornography, urinate in public, etc. These are NOT violent crimes. Girls are having sex at 12, 13. 14 and nothing criminal happens to them only the other person. You can go on the registry because you picked a girl up at a bar, had sex, and later find out she is only 16 and she had a fake ID. That fake ID is NO reason to keep you off the registry especially in Florida. Looking at adult pornography on Lime Wire and coming across under age girls will also get you on the registry. These are NON-VIOLENT crimes. Girls know what they are doing and I personally am getting tired of their parents pulling out the “victim” card. Have you been to the beach lately, schools, malls, and see how these girls dress and act. They want sex today. It is more girls wanting and having sex then the boys. This 14 year old knew what she was doing. This is NOT about being gay, it is again, about the draconian laws we have. We would probably all be on the registry if this was back 30 years ago. How would you all like that?
blake says: The example these parents are setting sends the message that the 14 year old is not responsible for what she does consensually. How old can she get and still use such an excuse?
I know, it’s incredible! I can see why it’s difficult for you to understand that when you take down your kids’ friends to the basement and sexually abuse them in front of a camera, CONSENSUALLY, making child porn, and they drink alcohol and take drugs with you, CONSENSUALLY, and then the police comes to your house and drags you away screaming “why isn’t that 14 yr old child being held responsible for the child porn???!!!”, it’s so hard to see why anyone would consider you the world’s greatest junk of a human being and a pedophile.
How could the child get away with such “an excuse” and you be the one to be jailed for years!
In your view, that’s where the problem with the above picture lies.
James, are you out there??? Can we please have this person escorted off the premises?
Steven, Doug… anyone…
@Current Prosecutor: Of course you wanted him badly. You’re an asshole who doesn’t care about what’s fair or right just what you can peg on your scorecard. It doesn’t matter to you that the guy was lied to by someone that was one or two years too young to give consent legally. It doesn’t matter to you that they are/were madly in love and are married now. All that mattered to you was getting that extra conviction on your card. Who cares if the poor guy has his life ruined forever.
You’re part of the problem with the justice system..
Christine says: Girls know what they are doing and I personally am getting tired of their parents pulling out the “victim” card.
Because 12 yr olds are now adults and can make adult decisions about sex? Sure, according to liberals who want every type of sexual exploitation to be made normal in society – and then blame the children if they are morally and ethically corrupted even before their 15th birthday.
I’m sick and tired of society’s greatest sexuality pigs preaching what is “normal ” for kids and adults.
================
“We would probably all be on the registry if this was back 30 years ago.”
Toldya:
A lot of the comments here are nothing more than “I raped a lot of kids when I was young… why should that ever be considered a problem…”
fixed it for you:
It’s true that the comments here reflect the fact that liberal men AND WOMEN like to degrade, exploit, and do sexual harm to others with impunity, or they might not do it themselves but they turn their backs to all the sexuality problems we have in society, so, clearly, they want to promote impunity to sexual offenders and exploiters. They guarantee it for Kate, they guarantee it for themselves and everyone else.
@blake: BUT BUT BUT… That takes effort and stuff.
This is why I don’t have a kid. I know I don’t have the patience or time to raise them properly and unlike most adults I refuse to let society or tv/internet/etc do it for me..
@Alessandra: Alessandra, I am confused by the ferocity with which you attack my statements. I made no comment, positive or negative, about Kate’s parents. To imply that I agree with their behavior or support them in some way is completely unfounded (and totally untrue, by the way). This is a big issue. I picked a small part that I found interesting and shared my opinion. Please feel free to analyze and discuss what I actually posted, but please refrain from ugly remarks based on which “side” you assume (incorrectly) that I am on. It doesn’t add value to what should be an open sharing of ideas.@Alessandra:
Oh for Pete’s sake. You are such a fake, throwing apples into the oranges pile and then escalating the rhetoric about oranges.
I’ve written a few posts above about my experience with minors who had consensual relationships with adults, and what a difficult problem that was. So now let me also say that I know a child, a friend of my kids, who was held in a room and raped repeatedly, at gunpoint, by a series of fully adult men, while being filmed, so that the main perpetrator (a policeman!) could sell the porn films. THAT is the apple you are pretending belongs in this discussion about oranges. It does NOT belong here. There is NO WAY that that child’s experience is equivalent to a fourteen-year-old having a relationship with an older kid at her high school. It makes me furious that you would even mention them in the same breath.
On the subject of “pedophile” – it’s pretty clear that some elements on the right are making a conscious effort to link Hunt with that wildly negative hot button word. We’ve seen this sort of sleezy tactic again and again when conservatives are talking about gays/lesbians.
We’re discussing marriage equality? Well, we have to work pedophilia, beastiality, and polygamy into the conversation, because, you know, gays are kind of the same thing.
It’s one of the things that makes charges of bias against Hunt credible. It would be interesting to get solid reporting on the political climate in Sebastian, and what pressures are being brought to bear on all the parties involved.
A look at this article in “The American Thinker” gives an example of how they work “pedophile” into the conversation, even though the actual case in no way involves pedophilia. The end game here is baking “Lesbian Pedophile” into the public consciousness, both in general, and in specific regards to Hunt. Charming that they would go after a young girl in this manner.
Here is an example of what Christine and blake and anjin call “harmless” fun – just a child fooling around with sex – and in Christine’s words “this boy knew that he wanted it” – Sandusky, the pedophile is therefore innocent! Just an innocent lamb, Jerry Sandusky is.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/sandusky-victim-reveals-identity-justice-long/story?id=17511612#.UaUpHthO5bc
He was 11 when he met Jerry Sandusky in the summer of 2005. Fisher was selected to attend a summer camp run by Sandusky’s charity organization for disadvantaged children, The Second Mile, on Penn State’s campus.
Fisher said Sandusky immediately took a special interest in him. He encouraged Fisher’s athletic interests, taking him to both college and pro sports events.
“We sat in box seats,” said Fisher. “He was just kind of like a giant stuffed teddy bear. He seemed like the all-natural father figure — something that most kids wished their dads did.”
Sandusky’s reputation had preceded him and put Daniels at ease as far as allowing her son to spend so much time with Sandusky. But according to Fisher, Sandusky slowly turned from a “father figure” into something much darker.
“He’d put his hand on my leg while we were driving,” Fisher said, “My family never did that, so it was kind of weird.”
By the time Fisher was 12, Sandusky was sexually assaulting him. Fisher said fear, shame and confusion prevented him from seeking help and telling anyone about his tormentor.
“There were so many emotions and thoughts running through my head,” he said. “Being a kid, you never know what to do, and you don’t know who to tell because you don’t know who you can trust.”
Daniels said she was alarmed by the hundreds of phone calls Sandusky made to the house. By the time Fisher was 15, he reached a breaking point and finally summoned the courage to tell his mother and the school’s principal, Karen Probst, that Sandusky was sexually abusing him.
“Aaron was melting down in the office,” Daniels said. “I immediately told them we need to call the police.”
But the mother and son say they were shocked by the principal’s response.
“They said that Jerry has a heart of gold and that he wouldn’t do those type of things,” Daniels said “They tell me to go home and think about it.”
Read the whole article for the years of a judicial nightmare that Fisher had to endure to finally bring Sandusky to justice.
=============
So according to those with a pedophile perspective here, 15 is old enough to be an adult and therefore no sexual exploitation or abuse can occur in reality. Sandusky should have never gone to jail, according to them, it’s all “harmless fun” and “experimenting with their sexuality.”
That’s the absurdity of the mentality here – and, in Christine’s most disgusting words – all that happened to Fisher was NON-VIOLENT – therefore, none of it should be considered a crime.
And it was, at least in a warped, liberal way “consensual.”
Because the psychological and emotional manipulation of kids is now equal to consent, according to liberals.
ElizaJane: a great number of sexually exploited kids are never held by gun point to do anything. That even includes a number of cases of child porn and trafficking.
Guns are often unnecessary because psychological and emotional manipulation achieve the same result.
You’re just enabling sexual exploitation of kids by saying that the only way it can happen is through physical violence.
That’s the most ignorant, irresponsible statement one could make about the subject.
If you want to promote sexual abuse of children through emotional manipulation, expect to be criticized.
@anjin-san: “James, are you out there??? Can we please have this person escorted off the premises?”
Maybe the easiest answer is just to let her and Jenos have this thread — simply leave it and never return and let Jenos rub himself with his free hand while he uses the other to type his teen porn fantasies. Let’s face it, he and this nutball woman deserve each other if two people ever did. As long as they keep it here, we can walk away.
anjin-san says: “On the subject of “pedophile” – it’s pretty clear that some elements on the right are making a conscious effort to link Hunt with that wildly negative hot button word. We’ve seen this sort of sleezy tactic again and again when conservatives are talking about gays/lesbians.”
And,as has been pointed out previously, it’s pretty clear that elements on the left are making a conscious effort to unlink Hunt from this negative hot button word – even when it’s clear she targets children for sexual exploitation and rape. We’re tired of seeing this sort of sleazy, sexual exploitation enabling tactic being used again and again when liberals talk about homosexuals in any case where they are perpetrators, especially if any minors are involved.
blake says: “@Alessandra: Alessandra, I am confused by the ferocity with which you attack my statements. I made no comment, positive or negative, about Kate’s parents. To imply that I agree with their behavior or support them in some way is completely unfounded (and totally untrue, by the way). ”
Oh, how curious that you decided to attack the victim’s parents and stay silent about the lesbian pig’s parents. Even though you claim you don’t agree with the latter. Just a coincidence!
“I think the actions taken by the parents of the 14 year old are unfounded, as they did not seem to consider any of the above listed strategies, or any other options that may have curbed the behavior they disliked without charging a high schooler with crimes that could result in life-long consequences. ”
But they are not Kate’s parents. It’s up to Kate and her parents to curb her sexually predatory behavior. In other words, you think the victim’s parents should be blamed for Kate’s rape of their child because they are supposed to stop her! That’s rich. And you don’t understand why you were “ferociously” criticized. That’s even richer.
The impression you give is that you are on the same “children are capable of consent regarding sex” boat that many liberals promote here. And if there is a liberal sexually exploiting a child, let’s blame the victim’s parents – those awful conservatives!
Kate should get life-long consequences for her predatory homosexual exploitation of children. And if you don’t like it, I think you can start by blaming Kate, her parents and her supporters – not the victim’s parents.
@wr
Yea, probably so. Jenos’ inability to stop talking about the actual sex acts reveals him to be perhaps a much bigger creep than we already think he is, and he may have found a perfect playmate in Allasandra. It’s discouraging to see these levels of venom on display, especially given the youth of the parties involved.
@anjin-san: Sebastian the city itself is run by a council and has its own police force. Most of it started out as one of General Development Corp’s big empty street pattern cities. No one’s mentioned city involvement in the comments so I’ll talk about county. Indian River’s political climate is Rock Ribbed Republican in spite of or because of the distressed economy. The state attorney for the circuit and circuit judges are elected non-partisian offices filled by voters from Indian River a few other counties that should be googleable. The sheriff and various other county constitutional officers are partisian. Board of Edu members are non-partisian. All of these people are elected.
There may be a Democrat on the county commission by now but I wouldn’t bet on it.
Eugene Volokh is a liberal?!
And now there’s this! Don’t know if it’s true or not, but it would come as no surprise as the true colors of this predatory lesbian pig prancing about in the media as some nicety-nice persecuted and discriminated little “gay”
http://www.viralread.com/2013/05/28/beat-her-ass-beach-fight-video-purports-to-show-kaitlyn-hunt/
Beach Fight Video Purports to Show Kaitlyn Hunt
I have a feeling the more people dig up info about this Kaitlyn and her family, the more the dirt will accumulate.
Looking forward…
I believe it’s pretty much understood (at least by young boys) that the consent laws practically operate like a parental option. If the folks don’t say anything and you’re 18-19 and she’s 14-15…carry on. If they DO say something however…you gotta move on until she reaches the age of consent or prepare to be visited by the cops. Life aint fair by the 18 year old should have moved on. Or at least waited until the girl reached 16. Parents should have some say of who has contact with their child at that age. We have to come up with better remedies for these grey areas however. Sex offender registries and prison are the wrong answer in these types of cases.
@ Pharoah Narim
What you describe is the way I remember it. On the other hand, Hunt’s mother apparently said “we never gave it a second thought” when they found out their 18 year old daughter was dating a 14 year old.
If the mother is indeed this clueless, there is just no telling how naive the daughter is. We also have to take into consideration that, as you mentioned, the cultural wisdom about avoiding jailbait is something that is directed at boys, not girls.
@anjin-san: Yea, probably so. Jenos’ inability to stop talking about the actual sex acts reveals him to be perhaps a much bigger creep than we already think he is, and he may have found a perfect playmate in Allasandra.
I was content to refer to it as pedophilia, but you objected to that. So I went for something that couldn’t be disputed.
If you’d like to suggest an alternative term, I’m open to “statutory rape.” That’s the criminal charge that she’s already pretty much copped to.
@ Jenos
I was content to refer to it as pedophilia, but
you objected to that.that is:A: Bullshit
B. A lie
C: Ignorance in action
D: Libel directed by an allegedly grown man at a young girl
E: A pea brained parrot repeating garbage from right wing rant sites
F: What rolled off the keyboard of someone all hot and bothered by the idea of two young girls having sex
G: All of the above
@Jenos Idanian: @anjin-san: Yea, probably so. Jenos’ inability to stop talking about the actual sex acts reveals him to be perhaps a much bigger creep than we already think he is, and he may have found a perfect playmate in Allasandra.
That makes Sandusky’s victim, Fisher, a much greater “creep” then. He didn’t stop talking for years about the ***actual sex acts****, that is, the sexual abuse and exploitation he suffered, even after he got the slime to go to prison. Fisher is such a big “creep”! anjin, maybe you should write Fisher a letter telling him what a creep you think he is. Especially compared to you…
For people with a pedophile mindset, it’s those who criticize and expose their grossly perverted acts that are creepy.
isn’t this what LGBT people are always about though? They live to hide their ugly reality under a nice narrative, with specially chosen words to make even rape seem just fine.
They love it when a homosexual pig rapes a girl multiple times, but no one is allowed to say out-loud exactly what happened.
Jenos and other sane people,
Speaking of creepy, you know what is also creepy that about this case?
I’ve never seen or heard about any 18 yr old woman anywhere who tried to “date” a 14 yr old boy – as in a romantic relationship. That is weird. It goes to show how perverted Kaitlyn and her supporters are.
18 yr old women, first of all, in my frame of reference, are going off to college. So the first picture of an 18 yr old that I have is a freshman at college – and such a person is not going to want to “date” someone who is 14. Even if they are still stuck in HS. As a mother of two teen boys said yesterday: when dating, her 19 yr old said that any difference of more than 2 years started to feel creepy to him, since the maturity differences are so big at that stage.
The only way I can imagine an 18 yr old woman wanting to “date” a 14 yr old boy (as in romantically) is if it’s a cover for perverted sex and to take advantage of the boy. The “dating” is because she is sexually targeting the boy – it’s not romantic at all. It’s a pedophile attitude towards the boy. We also know of older male teens who have a homosexuality problem and are incredibly perverted, who will target younger boys of any age for sex.
desperate that they are to normalize their homosexuality problems, every weird, predatory, and creepy attitude and behavior regarding sexuality is claimed to be normal by people with a homosexuality agenda.
@anjin-san: Earlier, I accused you of using semantics to hide behind, to avoid talking about the actual issue at hand.
I have no idea where the hell I got that Idea…
And then there is also this- so nicely put by McCain:
There is something . . . hinky about the “Free Kate” narrative. Becca Lower pointed out that teen lesbian/civil rights martyr Kaitlyn Hunt is, according to her own mother, a rather recent convert to the sapphic persuasion. Kelley Hunt Smith said her daughter had “always dated boys” until beginning her affair with the 14-year-old girl.
Hmm.
So, if we can believe a word Kaitlyn’s mom says (a necessary caveat, as she has been caught in multiple lies already) precious Kate was a happy, popular heterosexual until her senior year in high school, when she met this irresistibly hot freshman girl and — boom! — Instant Lesbian.
……………………
Or maybe she is immersed in a destructive, perverted liberal sexuality culture that conditions teens to be sexually perverse towards boys and girls and call it normal, especially regarding homosexuality, and there, boom, she decides to rape a girl for kicks – because she feels a sudden urge to. She just can’t help being a perverted lesbian going around raping girls. Born this way – after her 18th birthday that is. Who knows how much lesbian porn Kaitlyn, the pig, has consumed by now to make her think sexually degrading and raping girls is normal.
Or how many deformed LGBT entertainers she has watched on TV saying they and their attitudes and behaviors about sex are all normal. Or how many adults told her that sexual exploitation/rape is sexual experimentation. Virginia monologues, Lady Gaga, the deformed Ellen, porn, that’s the trash she has as models for “normality”…
And there was yet another point:
Elizajane said: It’s not helpful to anybody, especially to our society as a whole, to transform hormone-driven 18-year-olds into felons, a label that truly transforms the one who bears it.
Sorry, but all humans going through adolescense have active hormones- humans are all “hormone-driven.” You can’t go through adolescence without hormones acting inside your body. And given that billions of people go through adolescence with the same hormones as everyone else (including Kate) and do NOT rape children or sexually exploit them – it is ridiculous to blame Kate’s behavior on hormones – “raging” or not.
She has a sexually pervert psychology and ideology, thanks to the environment around her, which apparently is the only thing she has ever known.
Has nothing to do with “hormones.”
And I had forgotten:
the father is 35 and she is 18, so he was 17 when she was born. That speaks volumes right there,
Was Kaitlyn’s mother 12 by any chance when she got pregnant?
More from McCain:
by May 2004, the father was an ex-cop. The details of his 2012 arrest — to which he copped a plea of nolo contendre in August 2012 — are unclear, but as a condition of probation, Hunt was required to avoid contacting two women (Ann Anderson and Nadine Evans) and also to stay away from the Sebastian Elks Club.
In all, it adds up to a picture of a reckless macho guy with a habit of trying to intimidate people. And this was the guy whose online petition accused the 14-year-old’s family of homophobic vengeance, and who deliberately LIED ABOUT HIS OWN DAUGHTER’S AGE in an attempt to portray her as being unjustly persecuted.
We’ll see how this plays out, eh?
And… like many other sane people out there, I’m wondering about Kaitlyn’s overall sexual behavior with all other kids and adults she has come into contact with…
She’s encouraged to be a lesbian or bisexual pig by those around her – what outcome is there, overall?
Alessandra@
We got it! You were right all along! How dare we challenge your opinon of those nasty queers–the pervs. Boy, you really told them and us!
NOW WILL YOU GO AWAY!?!?!!?!?!?!?!
LOL
@ Jenos
It came from the same place as most of your ideas – ignorance.
When you use language in a way that is egregiously wrong, and someone corrects you, that is not arguing semantics, it’s basic correct use of the english language. It’s a bit like telling a small child not to eat dirt – and that’s about the level that the little games you play that you think are so clever are on.
This is wayyyyy over your head, but some of the folks with functioning brains may be interested:
Language in Action
Tanny (at paterico) asked: If the parents knew their daughter was having sex with Miss Smith are they culpable for damages?
It seems we’ll have to wait for the trial to know the answer. I would think if charges can’t be brought based on “aiding and abetting in child sexual battery” maybe based on a failure to report abuse of a child. Have to see what they mean by “child abuse” and if it fits in this case.
During the 2012 legislative session, the Florida legislature passed HB 1355/SB 1816 which had a significant impact on the Chapter 39 of Florida Statutes, the law relating to mandatory reports of child abuse. These changes to the mandatory reporting law will be effective July 1, 2012.
Here are some points to remember about the new law:
Reports of child abuse should be made to the Florida Department of Children and Families (DCF). Abuse reports can be made through the DCF statewide hotline (call 1-800-96-ABUSE) or through the DCF website.
Everyone in Florida is a mandated reporter but some people are professionally mandated reporters. For example, social workers, medical and mental health professionals, teachers and other school officials must give their names and occupation or place of business when calling.
Child abuse by parents, caregivers, any other adults and juvenile sex offenders should be reported to DCF’s statewide hotline.
Failure to report child abuse to DCF will be now a third degree felony (previously this was a first degree misdemeanor).
http://www.fcasv.org/publications/newsletters/fcasv-insight-summer-2012/florida%E2%80%99s-new-mandatory-reporting-law
=================
Mandatory reporting, yes! You liberals want these crap of people sexually abusing and exploiting kids as they please and you want to cover it up, in full collusion – felony.
I hope it applies. As a non-lawyer though: How could the following not be considered child abuse: (sexual battery); s.800.04. F.S. (lewd or lascivious offenses committed upon or in the presence of persons less than 16 years of age)?
LOL x 2
@Matt : A 15 year old girl goes missing, then turns up 6 months or so later with marijuana, hydrocodone (vicodin), and a baby in her, every states attorney in America would want this guy. The fact those two turned out to be from all accounts a truly happy couple and seemingly decent parents (according to my colleague) was completely unpredictable at the time. If I were the “asshole” you want me to be, I would have kept this anecdote to myself, wouldn’t I?
This story which I only checked back into because of the Hunt case (how do you broach that subject out of the blue?) Is a rarity, yet illustrates the difference between ‘true love’ and base sexual activity.
I actually handed you evidence of the human component versus the law, much to my chagrin. So save your vulgar attacks on me.
In the end, my thoughts on this case remain unchanged. Ms Hunt should have taken the plea, the victim is vocal, the law is plain, and the confession was given. Unless the Judge (as in the case I mentioned) intervenes, Ms Hunt’s day in court is going to be very bad for her.
@anjin-san: You postion seems to be, “the sheriff says you are guilty, so you are” – an odd way of looking at it.
Seems to me that this attitude is exactly in line with his claims to be a prosecutor
@ Ken
Depends on the prosecutor’s goals. If it’s just a team sport, and you want only your team to win, sure. If you are serving the somewhat higher calling of justice and serving the public, it’s a different story.
nice recap of several facts in this case
Support Honesty: Examining the facts of the Kaitlyn Hunt prosecution and Free Kate movement:
http://supporthonesty.net/
And another case where I’m quite happy not to live in the U.S. This whole “maximum penalty, no discretion” mindset is really nothing but a bureaucrats helpless solution to life’s complexities.
@Christopher Bowen:
Your facts are not accurate. According to the arrest affidavit Ms. Hunt turned 18 last August 14th. She started dating the 14 year old in November.
Sexual relations occurred in December and January. By February Ms. Kate was arrested. In early April the alleged victim turned 15. They were 14 and 18 during their sexual encounters.
The saddest part about this story is that it all could have been prevented if Kate’s mother spoke to her daughter about statutory rape laws. The mom didn’t know about those laws herself nor did she care at the time. She felt that they were just high school kids and there was no problem. When Kate got arrested she (and her mom) thought it was about homosexuality. They have T-shirts that say “Free Kate. Stop the Hate”. At 37 years old she learned very quickly about statutory rape laws. It’s not about being gay. Statutory rape usually means that a young straight man got arrested for having an underage girlfriends. Nowadays it doesn’t matter if you are straight or gay. Anyone over 18 can be prosecuted.
@Lorraine:
THANKS!!!!