Thursday’s Forum
Steven L. Taylor
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Thursday, February 27, 2025
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83 comments
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About Steven L. Taylor
Steven L. Taylor is a retired Professor of Political Science and former College of Arts and Sciences Dean. His main areas of expertise include parties, elections, and the institutional design of democracies. His most recent book is the co-authored
A Different Democracy: American Government in a 31-Country Perspective. He earned his Ph.D. from the University of Texas and his BA from the University of California, Irvine. He has been blogging since 2003 (originally at the now defunct Poliblog).
Follow Steven on
Twitter and/or
BlueSky.
Gene Hackman has passed away. Hackman, who made a career without movie star looks, made many memorable movies. I won’t rehash the obvious ones. Just mention a few less appreciated works of his- Under Fire, Downhill Racer, The Conversation, Prime Cut. RIP.
Michelle Trachtenberg has passed.
There is an obit at Vulture.
Age 39, Buffy’s kid sister.
@Bill Jempty:
Also his wife and dog. Carbon monoxide, possibly.
The cancelled flu advisory committee meeting that Mikey noted in yesterday’s forum really set me off. It seems that I now have a daily rant that I toss by email at my Senators and Congressman. Just want to get through the day without some stupid happening from this Congress and Administration.
Oh yes, effing JFK, Jr called the measles outbreak “not unusual”.
@Scott:
His world is filled with things ordinary people would call very unusual.
@Scott:
Well, if he gets his way, measles outbreaks will indeed become quite common.
@Rob1:
Oh COME ON! As if whom among us hasn’t cavorted with a dead bear. Let them cast the first dead whale head!
I totally did see this coming.
TL;DR, Chief Junior associate of the Crow & Leo Court, “paused” a judge’s order to release $2 billion in frozen foreign aid.
The SCOTUS is dead! Long live the tinpot rapist tyrant king!
@Bill Jempty: His role in The Conversation is much underappreciated. I saw it in French when I was doing research in Paris and it was even more powerful without dubbing, since I had to rely on his actions and expressions.
Trump wants to turn back the calendar to the halcyon days of the 1890s…tariffs! No income tax! No vaccines!* No votes for women! Ahhhhhhh.
*actually there were some vaccines, but no Deep State telling 19th century libertarians they had to get vaccinated.
@Scott:
Measles outbreaks are totally not unusual in unvaccinated populations, or with vaccination rates too low to sustain herd immunity.
@charontwo:
More re Michelle Trachtenberg:
“NY Post”
“NY Post“
@Mikey:
Did see a headline yesterday that west TX parents are lining up to get their currently unvaccinated kids a shot. Funny how illness, hospitalization and death among a subset of a community, a community with one thing in common, breaks through the cult.
On another note, the CDC cancelled a meeting yesterday that was intended to ID the target(s) for the fall/2025 flu vaccine. Chance to kill off some oldsters. Also, the felon’s henchmen are discussing pulling funding for Moderna’s bird flu vaccine.
We are living in interesting times or as a headline at the Bulwark declared yesterday, it can happen here.
But RFK Jr (not JFK), is a merchant of death.
Stable Genius and his cryptobro backers want to transition the US government into cryptocurrency. Selling off Fort Knox gold as been mentioned. At least the gold in Fort Knox requires an atomic weapon and an escadrille of “hot women” pilots to pull off, and even that attempt was defeated, by one extraordinary individual.
A characteristic of large deposits of traditional currency (and gold) discouraging wholsale heists is its physicality, its bulk. Heft hinders theft. Unless of course, the thieves social engineer themselves into control of the national government abetted by meme hats.
@Sleeping Dog:
Part of the plan to cut back Medicaid, Medicare and Social Security.
Trump has pressured Romania to remove restrictions on Andrew Tate’s travel. Right about now both Tate brothers are landing in Florida.
So far Trump has intervened on behalf of violent insurrectionists, war criminals, crooked politicians and sex criminals. Make misogyny great again!
Remember that for Republicans, every accusation of a Democrat is either a confession or premeditation of a crime.
No matter how low you put the bar, Republicans find a way under it.
The French Connection, The Conversation, Unforgiven, Crimson Tide, Night Moves, Superman…Gene Hackman gave so very many wonderful performances. One of my favorites, though, was in The Royal Tenenbaums:
https://youtu.be/Q5Hbs0s6_sQ?si=LZXAacKtA7T8N7QM
The podcast Behind The Bastards has some very useful episodes about Andrew Tate. just plan to take a very long shower after hearing them.
Victoria Spartz was set to do the right thing, and protect Medicaid for hundreds of thousands of Hoosiers. Then Trump screamed at her.
So though I’m not her constituent (neither is Trump) I’m spending my morning screaming back. I’ve unloaded on the staffers who answered her Indiana offices, making one of them cry. Ever make a grown person cry? In this context, it felt good, real good.
“Sir, I have a family to fee–”
“ITS A ROARING ECONOMY! THIS IS A CHOICE TO WORK FOR THE GOP! CAN YOU SLEEP AT NIGHT? CAN YOU LOOK IN THE MIRROR?”
“I…I–look, I can have you leave a voicemail for the Congresswoman?”
“ABSO-FUCKING-LUTELY”
“Ok, there’s no need for lang–”
“TRUMPS PRESIDENT, YOUR BOSS IS TRYING TO KILL YOUR NEIGBORS, AND YOU ARE LANGUAGE POLICING?!?”
*long silence and quiet sniffles on the other end*
The DC office hung up as soon as I got scream-y. So now I’m dialing them over and over and over and over and over and over. Sometimes my calls get cut off at 1 ring, sometimes goes to voicemail, which lets me know the calls are getting through and someone has to listen to the ringing.
So their whole goddamn day is going to by a ringing phone. I raised $600,000 yesterday, i could take a break for the rest of the month and my office would be fine with it. I have all the time in the world to annoy the fuck out of these people.
@Gavin:
Give me your misogynists, your traffickers,
Your tax-avoiding grifters, yearning to breathe free,
The wretched rapists of your teeming shore.
Send these, the indicted, tempest-tossed to me,
I got the red light on, bein’ an orange whore!
Trump administration slandering intelligence officers by suggesting participation in LGBTQ+ Employee Resource Groups qualifies as “obscene” behavior at work.
The New McCarthyism: LGBTQ+ Purges In Government Begin
President Trump:
“JPEG“
China makes older chips [the kind for your car, your fridge etc] cheaper than the West and is driving down the price – to undercut Western firms.
China discovers way to power missiles using the concept of Boeing’s helium leak
China declassifies tech used to make high-orbit satellites that are greater than the tech in US satellites.
Perhaps transferring that technology to China starting in the 90’s wasn’t such a great idea. Oopsie! But we really owned some libz along the way, and a couple dozen people got rich!
Bought eggs this morning. Two dozen. $1.44 per dozen. No shortage.
In fact, my entire grocery bill, which will cover next two weeks, was less than $50.
Gene Hackman is one of my favorite actors.
Hoosiers
Enemy of the State
The Conversation
French Connection
Unforgiven
Royal Tannenbaums
Heist
Mississippi Burning
All movies I can watch repeatedly.
RIP.
@EddieInDR: bought eggs yesterday at Trader Joe’s. $3 something/ dozen. However, you were only allowed one carton.
@Grumpy realist:
My store has a sign limiting purchases to 10 cartons per person, which is making me wonder who was buying 200 eggs at a time
@Neil Hudelson: You did this? As Recounted? You’re my hero of the week. I’m going to give it a whirl.
And here I was planning to launch a letter campaign. But I like your approach better — don’t target the elusive elected official, shame the staff into reconsidering their chosen career path.
Buying eggs right now. Granted they’re pasture-raised, whatever the hell that means: $10.99. Three bucks more if I want organic. The cheapest I found at Albertson’s in Vegas were $8.99.
And yet I distinctly recall Trump promising to lower the cost of eggs on day one. Can Trumponomics get us to two dollars-an-egg?
In other econ news, Tesla stock has given up all of its Trump-bump. It’ll give up more – Tesla is dead in Europe, dead in China, and dying in California, with five consecutive quarterly drops.
Should have learned from the failure of the Goebbels line of stylish jackboots. Did well for a while, then totally tanked in 1945.
@Stormy Dragon:
That’s because of re-selling on the egg black market. Psst, wanna buy an egg? Buy a dozen and we throw in a baggie of fentanyl for free.
$6.12 at Walmart, Phoenix area a couple of days ago.
Albertson’s has been limiting to 2 dozen, Trader Joe’s to 1 dozen – cheaper at Trader Joes.
RE: Michelle Trachtenberg
No reportage yet identifying reason for the liver transplant, except speculation of alcoholism. But there are numerous other causes. And at this point, no reportage of attempted medical intervention for the failing transplant. For a young woman who seemed very much accustomed and in tune with being in the public eye, she appears to have remained silent on her struggles.
$1.95 to $2.20 per dozen, depending on the brand. Regular eggs, no “organic” gimmickry*.
No limits on how many can be bought.
I think I’ll buy a few dozen and film myself throwing them off the roof and put it on Youtube just for giggles.**
*I gather I’ve been eating inorganic eggs all my life. I wonder whether inorganic chickens produce these, or they are assembled in factories.
** You know me better than that.
@charontwo:
Someone forgot to recharge his battery last night.
I gave an old buddy a ride from a local VA after his surgery yesterday. He is widowed, and the kids are employed so I pitched in. No biggie. The hospital was clean, smelled good, and full of us guys born 1945 to 1965 as patients and caregivers. He was in recovery with a nurse instructing him in his meds, proper diet, and correct activities. A physical therapist instructed him in proper crutch use. The nurse said all the nurses there had received the Musk OPM email but not responded. She’s been a RN in the surgical wing at the VA since 2008. She’s distressed that our government considers her a parasite. She didn’t choose her career based on bottom line considerations.
Most literature shows that VA healthcare is cheaper than the other alternatives. Should not Mr. Musk try to figure out how to make the general medical system as efficient as the VA?
BTW, my pal’s surgery went very well. We got him home without problems. He is motivated to comply with the physical rehabilitation plan. I will check in on him.
The VA staff I encountered was very helpful, compassionate, and courteous. Thank you to all of them!
@Rob1:
I have a tendency to exaggerate for good story telling, but in this case the above exchange is pretty much word for word.
I’ve now started calling just every Hoosier representatives office, even the Dems just to keep the fear in them. The DC Office line for Rep Baird is being staffed by an intern. I told her to quit while she still has a soul, and asked if she had trouble sleeping at night knowing her boss is trying to kill her neighbors. It was the first time I got an actual “fuck you” from a Congress person’s office in a dozen years of phone calls. Which, honestly, I appreciated. Those who just sat there and took my abuse, and the abuse of hundreds calling them? What fucking quislings. Grow a pair and yell back ffs.
I suppose GOPers aren’t in the habit of being around and hiring people with spines.
@Neil Hudelson: Sore loser.
Good for Slugger, treating people with respect.
@Fortune:
1. Careful, you are treading dangerously close to taking an actual position.
2. I was already swimming in catharsis, but knowing this bothers you makes it *so much* more enjoyable. Thank you, sincerely.
3. Welcome to participatory democracy.
4. The offices I’m calling are trying to end medical coverage for millions of Americans. They deserve far worse than to get yelled at.
5. It’s weird that you are upset at voters calling representatives and yelling, but you’ve expressed no concern that the President of the United States is doing the same and much worse.
6. Even weirder that you are upset over an unknown staffer getting an earful for 30 seconds, but appear to not be upset at all that many Americans are going to die slow and painful deaths if this budget deal goes through. It’s a very telling position to be in.
7. I’m sorry, Slugger’s experience at a hospital is related or analogous how????
I figured it was something like this. Defy Trump and there’s a very real possibility some MAGA lunatic will come after you and your family members.
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/feb/27/republicans-trump-threats
Popular Information:
Headline:
“PI”
excerpt:
“PI”
more:
Nice going, Biden to Trump switchers angry about Netanyahu’s antics. As if Biden was in control of Netanyahu.
Anniversary of the Reichstag Fire.
Seems somehow pertinent.
@Fortune:
Huh?
@CSK: maybe a maga lunatic, maybe a professional hit.
Putin sets the example. Poisoning and defenestration are popular when dispatching your political rivals. Just a couple of weeks ago a Russian musician who openly supported Ukraine got tossed from a window in his high rise apartment during a “search”.
There was a rash of killings a few years back. Vlad went on something of a rampage, offing a whole family hiding out in Spain… mom, dad and daughter.
Also, Navalny.
Very bad people are willing to do anything to keep themselves in power.
@Neil Hudelson: That sounds like me when I call except more coherent. I’m not very verbally adept so when I get mad I stutter and sputter. That’s why I write instead.
That Trump Gaza video was just bizarre. If told the Onion had created and posted it, I would have believed it. That Trump posted it, apparently thinking it was somehow not mocking him…strongest evidence yet his brain has in fact deteriorated.
The book burning continues:
Pentagon Releases Digital Content Refresh Memorandum
@Michael Reynolds: “Tesla stock has given up all of its Trump-bump. It’ll give up more”
The Tesla stock price had no business doubling from mid-October to mid-December, so reality has been pulling it back down. Their EV business stopped growing a while ago, their energy storage business has lots of competition and no technological advantage, and their autonomous vehicle business is both aspirational and facing lots of competition.
@Daryl:
I was going to post this anyway, but you provide a nice segue.
I’ve been re-reading Brad DeLong’s Slouching Towards Utopia. He expresses surprise that after WWI everybody didn’t look around and say, “For gawd’s sake, let’s figure out how to not do that again!” But they didn’t.
They needed a hegemon to take the lead. And as DeLong’s teacher, economic historian Charlie Kindleberger said,
So we got WWII.
Struck me because I’ve long said this about people and especially corporations. Everybody pursues their own selfish interests and assumes someone else will look after the country as a whole. And the only entity that can, and sometimes does, is the government. Which those same people and corporations are eager to tear down.
After WWII the U.S. did accept the role of hegemon and with enlightened policy helped Germany, Austria, Italy, Japan, et al back on their feet. (In return for their cooperation against the godless commies.) As hegemon, we have made spectacular mistakes, but in general we’ve been a pretty good hegemon. And now Trump is stepping away. Saying it’s to focus on opposing China, while vacating the hegemon role for China to pick it up. Very corporate, “America First”, with a timeframe no longer than next quarter.
A little job for the political science professors over at CNN. Or maybe the 9th grade civics teachers
Is the President of the United States the Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces? Does the Department of Justice and FBI not answer to the President of the United States, the elected head of the Executive Branch
Really, do these people not know there are cameras recording them?
@charontwo:
That Trump Gaza video is a stunner. It’s so far beyond obscene that I can’t bring myself to post the string of modifiers that are called for.
This Trump-Gaza video deserves a thread/post of its own on OTB, to string up high for all to see.
@JKB: More dishonesty from you, pretending you don’t understand.
The President is indeed the Commander of the armed forces. That does NOT mean he can do anything he wants with them–we can start with unlawful orders. Ordering a member of the military to shoot someone because he doesn’t care for their speech, for example. He also can’t technically send the military to war (Congress does that), but we’ve allowed that to slide quite a bit.
The question is why Trump has removed honorable, dedicated members of the military from their positions. Can you answer that question? Why? My parents always said “because” isn’t a valid answer. There’s always a reason. What’s Trump’s reason?
I’d wager that he wants sycophants surrounding him 24/7, so if he does something dumb or illegal, they’ll look the other way.
ETA: One concern is Trump deciding he wants to suspend habeas corpus for some invalid reason. Who stands up to him? Who says no? A reminder: he is not a king.
@Bill Jempty:
The French Connection and The Conversation were two of my favorites.
Both Gene Hackman and Robert Duvall (nearly the same age) were ‘everyman,’ they were professionals, they added to any and every movie they were in.
I already miss Gene Hackman
@al Ameda: I have to add Young Frankenstein.
@al Ameda:
Enemy of the State
The Replacements.
The Firm.
Crimson Tide.
@EddieInDR:
All those great films. Somewhere I saw an interview of Morgan Freeman on the filming of The Unforgiven. He said that they were good friends during the filming, but despite that, he found himself honestly frightened in the scene where Hackman was torturing him. That look of fear in his own eyes when Hackman put his chin on Morgan’s shoulder was real. Morgan said of Gene “Best actor I’ve ever met. Period.”
@becca:
I’m not sure Trump is capable of hiring a pro hitman. Not because he’s too ethical–never that–but because he’d mess it up somehow. I can see some MAGA nutcake thinking it would be “patriotic” to take out anyone who objected to Trump.
Musk? Maybe.
@CSK:
That and I imagine most hitmen ask for their bill to be paid up front. Trump could never do it.
Having fired them, Musk is now in the process of deciding that we don’t have enough of them. According to The New Republic, he’s asking retired ATCs to return to work.
Can you say “clusterfuck”?
@Neil Hudelson:
Oh, he’d certainly stiff them. And end up a stiff himself.
@CSK: Yeah, I’d noted that over in the thread on the Clown Show. Musk doesn’t appear to know that ATC have a mandatory retirement age of 56, and retired at the top of their pay range. And the ones he fired? Those are the new ones, who’d just been trained and theoretically are young enough to be around for a while.
He literally fired the less expensive workers and is asking the more expensive ones to come back.
Anyone saying this slash and burn style makes sense can go pound sand.
@Jen:
You certainly are entitled to your “sycophants” position. But I would say it is much more likely that he desires to have people in position who share his policy objectives and will implement them. It’s a much less wild eyed explanation. In fact, it’s rational.
@Connor: What “policy objectives” would require military leaders to share his vision? Provide detail, show your work.
Presumably, it doesn’t matter, because he is the commander in chief. It only matters if the orders are potentially problematic or illegal.
@dazedandconfused:
I believe it. Thank you for sharing that.
@Rob1:
Poe’s law. It reads as a deliberate parody, if not a lot of people including Trump are really seriously delusional.
@Jen:
Seriously? Seriously? We cannot converse if you devolve into high school debating tactics.
Trump (or Biden, or Obama etc etc – and they did) put people in place because they are “their” people. It is fundamentally a correction of the mistake Trump made in his first administration.
Spiral structure in the Oort Cloud.
“Link”
” … The spiral runs perpendicular, or at an angle of 90 degrees, to the plane of the Milky Way. … ”
An interesting factoid considering the solar system revolves around the galactic center.
@Connor: Fine, here’s why I think it’s sycophants he wants–Trump fired General Brown and installed Dan Caine, a retired officer. This was discussed the other day. While he’s qualified, the fact that Trump keeps bringing up some MAGA hat incident in relation to Caine certainly seems to indicate what Trump thinks is important.
@CSK:
I figure the political violence will really start when two of them let go close enough together to seem simultaneous. I’ve wondered for a while why the MAGAs weren’t actually out there beating up Democrats. Then I realized that they are all fucking cowards. It’s like cowardice is a fundamental part of conservativism, right behind lying. Eventually one or two will work up some ball and attack someone and then the fun will begin. Maybe that’s a good reason to have the transition be in the cold, makes it harder to riot.
@Gavin:
Apparently even DeSantis says they aren’t welcome in FL.
And Trump says he knew nothing about it.
Could be Rick Grenell freelancing.
Which is just as bad, IMHO
Yastreblyansky posted something a few days ago that is still well worth a read, including the comments.
Major point is that it is a triumvirate governing and sharing power, each with a scope of responsibilities and each with serious weaknesses that will ultimately show up.
Musk/Trump/Russell Vought, but Vought not getting much public attention.
“Yastreblyansky”
more at Intelligencer
“Link”
Etc.
@Beth:
Could you explain what “when the two of them get close enough together” means? I’m not at my best today.
Internecine MAGA shitstorm:
http://www.rawstory.com/epstein-files/
@Connor:
As a veteran of high school and college debate, I can tell you that you have yet to write anything here that could not be handled by a first year.
Moreover, your last line is hardly an offensive argument. It could be evidence for Jen’s opinion as much as it could be about policy.
She asked a simple question. What are Trump’s policy objectives. That question is not just simple–it is foundational. It has nothing to do with tactics in competitive debate, it is the basis for any discussion.
Seriously, this has been standard since at least Ancient Greece.
FAFO
https://bsky.app/profile/did:plc:xtg6uhgsy2j7k2a6qtcood2w/post/3lj474zx6oc2t
@charontwo:
Delusional is one thing, pathologically perverse and sadistic is something else.
@charontwo:
Delusional is one thing, pathologically perverse and sadistic is something else.
@CSK:
Right there with you. I mean two incidents of political violence that are separated by time and distance, but close enough in time to seem simultaneous and coordinated. Basically something that happens that causes the weirdos to think there’s a plan and it’s kicking off. Something to give them a little spine.
I think if it’s just a slow drip of one off’s people will just sleep walk through it, but if it’s flashy and fast it might get them moving.
@Beth:
Ah, thanks. I get you now. Yes, that’s very possible.
@Rob1:
¿Porque no los dos?
@charontwo:
Also a possibility. The sheer crudity of the thing is staggering
Lost in all the fun of mass layoffs is: The CHIPS act is essentially dead — with no FTE’s left at NIST to validate performance, future cash won’t be able to be dispersed. Conveniently, nothing we purchase needs a chip, right? And the US definitely didn’t need 120k good-paying manufacturing jobs!
Majority of Republicans now identify as maga. https://news.vanderbilt.edu/2025/02/24/majority-of-republicans-nationally-identify-as-maga-for-first-time-in-unity-poll/
I finally got across to some folks that firing all the “probationary” air traffic controllers is going to hit them in the pocketbook. I know a recently retired air traffic controller who isn’t about to un-retire per Musk’s suggestion (plus the law). He paid 2x (as required) into the Thrift Savings Account (TSA) because of a mandatory “Safety” retirement at 56 (ditto federal cops) – his words, pack sand, I’m retired. Anyway, fewer ATC, got to cut down on flights, airfares go up.