Florida Curriculum Politics Update
A tale from the DeSantis' Woke Wars.
A few follow-ups on my post (Still Thinking about the Past) about the new Florida social studies curriculum that noted: “slaves developed skills which, in some instances, could be applied for personal benefit.”
First, via NBC News: Most of Florida work group did not agree with controversial parts of state’s new standards for Black history, members say.
A majority of the members of the Florida work group that developed new standards for teaching African American history opposed the sections that have recently drawn criticism, including that middle schoolers be instructed that enslaved people developed “skills” that could be used for their “personal benefit,” three members of the work group said.
The members, who requested anonymity out of fear of reprisal, told NBC News that the majority did not want to include that change or a requirement that high school students be taught about violence perpetrated “by African Americans” when learning about events like the Ocoee and Tulsa Race massacres.
“Most of us did not want that language,” one member said, adding that two of the 13 members of the group pushed to include those specific items.
Well, you know it is a healthy process when members of a curriculum committee fear reprisals for voicing opinions in public.
The work group members who spoke to NBC News said that only two members of the work group, William Allen and Frances Presley Rice, advocated for the criticized language. Allen and Presley Rice, both Black Republicans, released a joint statement last week defending the new standards as “comprehensive and rigorous instruction on African American history.”
“The intent of this particular benchmark clarification is to show that some slaves developed highly specialized trades from which they benefitted,” they wrote. “This is factual and well documented.”
The members said Allen advocated for including that enslaved people benefited from skills that they learned, and Presley Rice pushed to include that students learn about “violence perpetrated against and by African Americans.”
“People were very vocal” and questioned “how there could be a benefit to slavery,” one work group member said about the language.
Allen, the member said, countered the arguments by using Frederick Douglass as an example.
I am unfamiliar with Allen, a political scientist. However, I did hear him interviewed by NPR, which struck me as evasive and tonally a bit odd (William Allen, who helped write Florida’s new history standards, stands by curriculum).
INSKEEP: Let’s drill down in the specific sentence that’s gotten all the attention. It says, quote, “Instruction includes how slaves developed skills, which, in some instances, could be applied for their personal benefit.” What did you mean by that?
ALLEN: I think the sentence explains itself. Its grammar is certainly perfectly clear when refers to the fact that those who were held in slavery possess skills, whether they developed them before being held in slavery, while being held in slavery or subsequently to being held in slavery, from which they benefited when they applied themselves in the exertion of those skills. That’s not a statement that is at all controversial. The facts sustain it. The testimonies of the people who lived the history sustain it.
First, in a situation like this, is an utter dodge to state that “the sentence explains itself” and the side trip into grammar is almost comedic. Still, as I noted in my original post, getting into the bare facts of the sentence isn’t the issue. The issue is why, given the limited number of words that the standards can contain, would there need to be any attempt to blunt the horrors of slavery. That is the key issue for me.
INSKEEP: Well, if you just look at that language, do you see anything that says that slavery is nice?
ALLEN: When I look at that language, I see what Booker T. Washington meant when he entitled his autobiography “Up From Slavery” rather than “Down In Slavery.” I see what Frederick Douglass meant when he described his slave mistress teaching him to read only at the beginning because his owner put a stop to it. But that small glimmer of light was enough to inspire him to turn it into a burning flame of illumination from which he benefited and his country benefited.
To me, this is a nonanswer. If the goal was to demonstrate that the enslaved were human beings who had skills, that’s fine. But that isn’t what the standard says. It links being enslaved to skill acquisition and to benefitting the enslaved as a result. What that has to do with Frederick Douglas is lost on me (especially when he notes that training for the skill in question, reading, was quashed by an enslaver–this contradicts the standard being debated, in my view).
A second update on this story comes via Politico: DeSantis rocked by Black Republican revolt over slavery comments.
The bitter fight between Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis and Rep. Byron Donalds over a line about slavery in the state’s revised African American history standards is infuriating several prominent Black conservatives.
[…]
“It raises eyebrows,” said Diante Johnson, president of the Black Conservative Federation, who is supporting Donald Trump’s presidential campaign. “Ron DeSantis is not the candidate for Black conservatives and that’s what [he] constantly, constantly exhibits to us.”
[…]
Donalds, who largely praised the guidelines as “good, robust and accurate,” took issue with the idea of “personal benefit” and said that part is “wrong and needs to be adjusted.” Donalds supported DeSantis for governor but has backed Trump in the presidential primary.
[…]
For another of DeSantis’ rivals in the presidential primary, the controversy provided an opening. Sen. Tim Scott of South Carolina, who is among the five Black GOP members of Congress, added to the chorus of Black conservatives criticizing DeSantis for supporting Florida’s revised educational standard.
“There is no silver lining in slavery,” Scott said. “Slavery was really about separating families, about mutilating humans and even raping their wives. It was just devastating.”
[…]
Rep. John James (R-Mich.) scolded DeSantis for responding to Donalds and Scott. “There are only five black Republicans in Congress and you’re attacking two of them. My brother in Christ, if you find yourself in a deep hole put the shovel down.”
[…]
CJ Pearson, a Black Gen Z conservative activist said, “I think it’s absurd we’re having a debate about whether slavery was good for Black people in 2023.”
Meanwhile, waging World War Woke is not working for DeSantis as he had hoped. Via WaPo: Does DeSantis have a Florida problem? Trump dominates in the Sunshine State.
Exactly. Shame on the interviewer for getting sucked into the question of truth, rather than the question of relevance and intent. The question isn’t “is this statement true?”, it’s “why is this statement in the standard, out of all the true statements that might be included?”.
Ron Day-Santis does not have the looks, voice, wit, or entertainment value to be a serious candidate for POTUS. His drop off was inevitable as well his boost up to get eyeballs on cable news advertisements.
There have always been black people (i.e big “C” conservatives) who are willing to raise their status with the dominant faction by denigrating other black people. These 2 clowns are no different which is why they pushed for a non-sensical angle on teaching about slavery. It was a logical play for them until other Black Conservatives jumped in—-now they look like idiots. I believe Rep Donald graduated from a HBCU so there was no way he could let this ride without a response—without completely blowing his credibility within that ring of his circle.
The stupidity lies in the fact that that there were plenty of enslaved human beings who did not learn these same skills. What are supposed to make of them? Did they lack initiative? Were they not go-getters? They are trying to teach slavery as there were morals or lessons for enslaved people to learn from their situation. It’s completely what dumb people want to hear.
Frederick Douglas escaped slavery…so slavery benefitted slaves who managed to escape?
Booker T. Washington was freed from slavery at the ripe old age of 8.
Slavery in this country existed for something like 8 generations. There were tens of millions of slaves in the US over that time, a huge number of whom surely were born slaves and died slaves.
But I’ll tell you what, if you think there is a benefit from slavery let’s put your kids in shackles for a while and see how they benefit.
MAGAt’s are morons.
The psychology of Black Republicans would be a fascinating study. Along with Log Cabin Republicans.
IIRC Clarence Thomas has been quoted as saying Blacks can expect nothing from whites, so they have to pull themselves up by their bootstraps. It’s a small step from there to I’ll grab whatever I can get for myself.
I noted earlier, in the Trump thread, that I think DeUseless would be more of a disaster as prez than Trump. This post helps explain why. And where, Dr. T, did you get that picture of him? He almost seems to be showing some emotion. I’m not sure what emotion, but emotion.
Leaving aside the history subject, I believe the fundamental take-away is that Mr DeSantis is politically incompetent, devoid of any of the animal cunning of selling to the mass market that Trump has (Trump while being organisationally and strategically utterly incompetent is an absolute master of animal cunning on niche marketing – of course as he is somewhat dim and utterly devoid of self-reflection, he is unable to realise he is in a niche…)
@Lounsbury:
The analogy I’ve long used is that Trump is a shark – brilliant predatory instincts, tiny little brain.
@Lounsbury: Someone, I forget who, did a column pointing out that Trump’s superpower is that he makes hate fun. DeSantis sucks the fun out of everything. War with Mickey Mouse FFS?
Every modern and youngish conservative is a clone of DeSantis. Unlikable, weird, boring, and ultimately dumb–the type of guy who follows orders if he’s told to torture somebody at Gitmo but after the torturing is over gets really upset if he’s got to call a fellow torturer by their preferred pronouns. Just a total serial-killer freak who creeps people out.
Trump on the other hand spent his life in Society with people who are catty and funny and invited places not only because they are rich.
@gVOR08:
“… I think DeUseless would be more of a disaster as prez than Trump.”
Trump didn’t actually do anything but inflame anger and hate, and then try to overthrow the Government. All while enriching himself and his immediate family.
I mean he passed a tax cut but with a Republican Congress that was an automatic. McConnell got the Justices. And then Trump completely bungled the Covid Pandemic, killing almost as many Americans as Jefferson Davis in the process.
DeSantis would actually try to accomplish things. To make America into Florida. That must not be allowed to happen.
@Modulo Myself:
Trump is not a conservative tho, hence why he has his comic charms. Drama Queen Donnie is a greedy, spoiled, power-hungry bigot with narcissistic personality disorder, perpetually in need of daddy’s approval. He plays conservative in serve of his psychological injury and narcissistic wounds.
Your description of the peculiar young American men in polo shirts and red ties who grow up to be Ron DeSantis is spot on. We are all familiar with these country club wannabees. I’d only quibble that you’ve described all young conservatives; for example, young evangelicals like the Duggar kids are a different type, just as weird but often eminently likeable.
You’ve nailed but a specific subset movement conservatives more accurately described as young fascists. They have to cosplay as conservative because to reveal the inordinately-impassioned Little Eichmann red pill taker inside is to immediately social suicide.
Instead most slowly commit social suicide — like DeSantis’s slow political immolation — by just being themselves, alienating others with their dull, unnatural, and/or obnoxious personalities.
I repeatedly said (but am not the only one to have said) long ago that DeSantis was an overrated, unlikeable, flawed candidate who schtick would not play well outside of Floriduh. I just did not expect him to wear so thin with Republicans themselves so soon.
An insight into the worldview of one of the two working group members, Frances Presley Rice, who was pushing for the controversial language:
http://blackrepublican.blogspot.com/p/firstmy-bio-then-story-of-my-rise-from.html
@gVOR08:
David French did a column to that effect a few weeks ago. He spoke with his trump supporting neighbors and asked what the attraction is, much of it is belonging and having a good time. It should be noted that the good time they are having, is being loud and proud about their bigotry.
@Daryl:
His EPA and Dept of the Interior were environmental disasters. He loaded the Supreme Court with conservative justices who make it much more difficult — and in some cases it looks to be impossible — for the Biden administration to reverse that.
@Michael Cain:
As I said – McConnell got the Justices.
The Gorsuch seat was stolen from Obama, Justice Boof was never properly vetted, and ACB was rushed thru in record time BEFORE RGB’s body was even cold.
Trump did nothing but nominate who the Federalist Society told him to nominate.
@Kingdaddy:
So much space in a bio dedicated to “Democrats are bad Republicans are good”, justified every bit as speciously as these new regs have been. Yes, it does say it all, doesn’t it?
@Modulo Myself:
It’s worse than that. The Robert E. Lee letter to his wife, quoted in NYT:
Is the new educational standard different from Lee’s “painful discipline” point? I don’t think so.
Additionally, this was one of the moral justifications for colonialism.
The racial authority brutalizing the lesser races for the good of those backwards savages. White Man’s Burden.
@gVOR08:
When I saw it “The Final Countdown” started playing in my head.
I thought it was a reference to Gob.
@Daryl: Yah–it’s not so much Donald Trump that I worry about, since that man will trip over his own dick coming out of the bathroom, but the incredible number of Republican eminence grises who think they can use him and hence will continue to support him no matter how close to fascism he gets.
I’m even wondering now if Musk is deliberately trashing Twitter and pulling WAY to the right in hopes of helping Trump get re-elected, since Musk realizes only someone like Trump would be gullible enough to make “X” a mandated app for everyone in the government and it’s only someone as stupid as Trump who would tear down consumer protection regulations, which would otherwise block Musk’s crazy ideas of joining a bank app together with sales apps and social media apps.
Unfortunately, this sort of situation plays out in history usually with a pretty high body count.
@Kingdaddy:
@dazedandconfused:
The masthead features a quote by Michael Scheuer.
Unless one thinks the two times a stopped clock is correct indicates that the clock should be trusted as a fire alarm, that’s not the guy I would quote about domestic politics.
Plus, the way the quote is presented is bizarre. Rather than the text enclosed in quotation marks, it is presented as if it isn’t a quote with the attribution as a parenthetical.
@gVOR08:
I think they have far less in common than you might expect, once you skip over the grifters.
With church attendance and religious views, it’s surprising that there aren’t more Black Republicans. Add in that liberal policies have never been able to help Black folks build intergenerational wealth*, and a “pull yourself up by the bootstraps” message has appeal (no one else is pulling, so it has to be you…). If it wasn’t for the overt racism, I think Republicans would have a lot more Black folk.
Log Cabin Republicans are a different breed. I’ve never met one that wasn’t really into Ayn Rand. They are basically indistinguishable from the Randian Republicans except for a resentment towards other queer folks who are “too loud” and a belief that their white privilege should be more important for how they are treated than being gay. I hate them so much.
*: we haven’t been able/willing to break up a lot of the structural racism. Or even reign in the “wealth extraction from the poor” industries that have a disproportionate effect.
Yup, Allen and Ron DeSaster are being too clever by half, minus the clever.
If the education standards wanted to include this factoid good faith, it would read like, “After the Civil War, many freed blacks worked within the same kinds of labor roles once required of them while enslaved.”
But as Dr. Taylor notes, broad education standards intended to cover the whole of black American history have limited space, a “limited number of words.” So why include this highly-specific factoid? As @mattbernius and I discussed the other day, the minutae of how slave labor intersected with postslavery employment is the stuff of deep dive collegiate-level study.
Unless you want to make a bad faith argument catering to the ongoing rightwing project of whitewashing black history and winking at supremacists. Then of course you include problematic language suggesting slavery was to blacks’ benefit.
That most of the working group knew better and predictably objected puts a bow on the point.
@Michael Reynolds: Yes, I think shark is not bad as an animal analogy although perhaps grants too much credit for predatory efficacity to him. But boring perhaps to quibble analogies.
@Gustopher:
This is true, and also note: unlike the white evangelical tradition, many if not most black churches emphasize social justice. As with Jesuit Catholics, you are very likely to black Christians who are relatively liberal because of their religious beliefs, not in spite of them.
Because the American black church tradition was originally rooted in lifting black people out of slavery and suffering inflicted by the rich and powerful, black churches have tended to place more prominence on the whole “blessed are the poor, blessed are the peacemakers, blessed are those who hunger” part of Christianity than maybe other mainline churches.
So as long as conservatives are tethered to tax cuts for billionaires and cuts to food stamps and Medicare, even less racism would only get Republicans so far with black voters. But, yes, probably enough to make Republicans much more competitive electorally — especially since these days some black megachurches have turned their backs on social justice to instead preach prosperity gospel (gag) or new age nondenominational self-help.
The prosperity gospel and commercialized megachurches in general were heaped with scorn by traditional MLK-style traditional black protestants when I was a kid. I don’t know where the battle lines on that are now, as it’s been a long time since I attended a black church regularly.
@Sleeping Dog: It probably was French’s column I was thinking of. Thanks.
Indeed. Nothing says freedumb like being able to say the n word out loud.
I pay little attention to anything benito or DeSatanis ever say. Inevitably, I do notice a few things now and then. One salient issue is El Cheeto very often paints himself as a victim of the enemy du jour.
Does Ron do the same? I’m not sure I ever heard or read about him doing so. He doesn’t seem to whine much, either.
Maybe this factors in somehow.
@Gustopher:
But once you strip out the grifters, is there a statistically significant number left?
@gVOR08:
There is a photographer on Flickr who takes a lot of photos at right-wing events (although his latest are from ComicCon) who allows usage with attribution. This is one of his.
@grumpy realist:
Dude. Don’t be so generous to him. From what Stormy Daniels said, there is zero risk of that.
He may not have even seen his member directly for years, relying on distorting mirrors and women telling him “it’s a good size” or whatever Maria Bello told William H. Macy in The Cooler.
Q: does he spray tan it?
Q2: Am I the only one who wonders if the kompromat was not a pee tape but wee pee pee pic?
@gVOR08: I thought he’d just finished the end solo in Running on Empty on his air guitar.
I noted above @gVOR08: that Trump makes hate fun, while DeUseless sucks out fun. Via Digby there’s polling data. In a survey of GOP primary voters asked whether they felt certain words better describe Trump or De, 69% see Trump as a “strong leader” against 22% for DeUseless. They asked about “fun” and Trump blows De away 54-16. Which struck me as a little weird given a near tie on “likeable”. And 58-28 they think Trump has a better chance of beating Biden than De.
@gVOR08:
90% of Black voters vote for Democrats. The remaining 10% are not all on the grift train — there’s just not enough grift.
If the GOP could get grift to 10% of Black voters, it would be one of the greatest wealth transfers in the country, and we would have to encourage the other 90% to sign up for it. Reparations in the modern day, etc.
I think there’s a similar shortage of grift to explain Queer Republicans.
Now, Queer Black Republicans… there is only one of those, Christian Walker, and he couldn’t stomach supporting his father, Hershel, so he seems to have screwed up his grift.
@Kurtz: And yet having acknowledged that, he went on to lead the army dedicated to preserving said moral evil. What kind of sick f##k makes that compromise?
DeSantis has the charm and charisma of a guy who administers the lethal injection at a death penalty, then turns to the ‘audience’ and says, ‘next!’
@just nutha: He looks like a conservative 55 year old’s idea of what a cool 55 year old man would look like.
Oh, he’s 44.
@just nutha: I think you misunderstood. Robert E. Lee was saying that the white man takes on the moral stain of slavery to reshape and civilize the black man — to raise the black man up out of savagery and get that cotton picked as a bonus.
See how noble that white man is? Sinning for the betterment of the black man.
I haven’t seen anything this noble since Judas sold out Jesus in “Jesus Christ Superstar”. Jesus sacrificed his life, but Judas sacrificed his soul.
——
I also first misunderstood it, because I do think that being pushed to commit acts of cruelty damages you as a person, and I was stopping right where Lee agreed with me.
On a related note, DeSantis was not an awesome dude at Gitmo.
@Gustopher: Clearly, I misread. I’m a stay with sick f*#k all the same.
@Gustopher: What is also implied, knowing Lee’s background as a Mason, was that a steep karmic debt would have to be paid.
And DeSantis wants to “make America Florida”…
https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/aug/01/florida-leprosy-cases-increase-cdc