Outside the Beltway

Obama’s Kenyan Birth Certificate

James Joyner
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The intrepid journalists at WorldNetDaily have discovered this document and ask, “Is this really smoking gun of Obama’s Kenyan birth?”

The short answer is No.  As Steven Taylor notes,

For some odd reason, the document is dated 1964 (Obama was born in 1961) and yet this document appears to mean more to the Birthers at WND than do contemporaneous birth announcements in Hawaiian newspapers at the time and the official birth certificate as issued by the state of Hawaii.

It also appears to be the case that Kenya did not declare itself to be the “Republic of Kenya” until December 1964, yet the document in question is dated February 17, 1964 and uses the phrase “Republic of Kenya” (see here).

A site dedicated to exploring the whole birther issue finds several other problems and strange coincidences.

Of course, there simply is no conceivable evidence that would convince those who think Obama isn’t legitimately the president that he was born here.

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41 responses to “Obama’s Kenyan Birth Certificate”

  1. DC Loser Avatar
    DC Loser

    I just with these people can let go and move on, but they won’t. It saddens me greatly to see political discourse moving ever more into the realm of nutjob conspiracy theories as the main argument against one’s opponent. They can’t get over that the American people dared to elect their opponent and won’t accept the obvious repudiation of their candidate and agenda. I’d just say get over it and take your next shot in 2012.

  2. Furhead Avatar
    Furhead

    According to others, there’s another problem, which is that the given birth city of Mombasa was actually part of Zanzibar in 1961.

  3. Mack Avatar
    Mack

    A simple original birth certificate would satisfy most of the birthers. It hasn’t been seen yet. Obama has given two hospitals as the site of his birth. It would be simple for him to do, but the “transparency” President keeps hiding it as well as his educational records.

  4. rodney dill Avatar
    rodney dill

    For some odd reason, the document is dated 1964 (Obama was born in 1961)

    The 1964 date, corresponds to the signing date when the copy was made, certifying that it is a copy of the original entry. Pretty easy to see when you zoom in. Still doesn’t prove anything, but I’ve had to get ‘official’ copies of my birth certificate several times for various reasons, and it is certified by someone at the county clerks office, at the the time the official copy is make. The year 1964 does correspond to the year his parents were divorced when getting new records may be deemed to be necessary. It will take more than either of these documents to prove lack of Obama’s citizenship.

  5. Furhead Avatar
    Furhead

    My guess at this point is that most birthers would simply say, “Why did it take so long? It must be a well-crafted fake.”

    Besides, one doesn’t interrupt his enemies when they are making a mistake.

  6. Michael Reynolds Avatar
    Michael Reynolds

    Listen, I’m tired of all this anti-birther snarking. It so happens I know the man who found this birth certificate and it’s the real thing.I don’t know his name, but I do know that he’s a Nigerian general and/or government official who has a fortune in a certain bank and just needs my help to get access to that money. He found me on the internet because I’m known as a person of high moral standing.

  7. yetanotherjohn Avatar
    yetanotherjohn

    I think we need to get Dan Rather on this.

  8. anjin-san Avatar
    anjin-san

    Guess Republicans need to hang their hats on something in the face of a recovering economy…

  9. PD Shaw Avatar
    PD Shaw

    The 1964 date, corresponds to the signing date when the copy was made, certifying that it is a copy of the original entry. Pretty easy to see when you zoom in.

    Yes, it appears that the birth is originally recorded in a registry. So now the principled birther must demand a view of the original book, not a mere secondary recitation of the contents of the book. Right?

  10. markm Avatar
    markm

    Just saw this:

    http://confederateyankee.mu.nu/archives/290426.php

    As you were.

  11. Derrick Avatar
    Derrick

    Yes, it appears that the birth is originally recorded in a registry. So now the principled birther must demand a view of the original book, not a mere secondary recitation of the contents of the book. Right?

    Nice!

    As it’s been previously said, this long-form/original bs is just code for moving the goal posts. They believe what they believe and everything corresponding will be proof of a MUCH LARGER conspiracy at this point. This all goes to prove people’s first inclinations about the “Tea Party movement”. It’s like an unholy mix of Truthers (libertarian variety), Birthers and other nut jobs who can’t accept Obama’s president but are too lazy to actually try to deal with it on a substantive level.

  12. Michael Avatar
    Michael

    Yes, it appears that the birth is originally recorded in a registry. So now the principled birther must demand a view of the original book, not a mere secondary recitation of the contents of the book. Right?

    Score:
    PD Shaw: 1
    Birthers: 0

  13. Michael Avatar
    Michael

    A simple original birth certificate would satisfy most of the birthers.

    Not it wouldn’t. A certified copy from the State of Hawaii is enough to satisfy any rational person. For everyone else, nothing will satisfy them.

  14. rodney dill Avatar
    rodney dill

    Yes, it appears that the birth is originally recorded in a registry. So now the principled birther must demand a view of the original book, not a mere secondary recitation of the contents of the book. Right?

    Why would a birther demand a view of the of the Kenyan original book? Presumably Birther’s would already believe this copy. The document already has a 1961 birth date, I was just pointing out there is a rational reason for there to be a 1964 signature date on a certified copy.

    Lacking an further evidence of a forgery, cover up, or conspiracy around the Hawaiian Birth Certificate that one has to be accepted. A lot of records have been misplaced or lost over the years in this country. Obama has as much evidence of citizenship on this country as many others.

    I find both sides of this argument to be ‘hysterical’ in their support of their views.

  15. Michael Avatar
    Michael

    I find both sides of this argument to be ‘hysterical’ in their support of their views.

    So, you think the people who believe he is a naturally born citizen, that believe the Hawaii birth certificate is authentic, are as ‘hysterical’ as the birthers?

  16. PD Shaw Avatar
    PD Shaw

    Why would a birther demand a view of the of the Kenyan original book?

    Because the birthers are unsatisfied with the Hawaiian certificate of live birth because it is a secondary document. It is a certification of an original document that Hawaii won’t make public.

    A principled birther would apply the same standard here. The original record of Obama’s birth is in a book somewhere. The book, not the secondary certification of its content is what should matter.

    Perhaps I should have put “principled” in quotation marks.

  17. rodney dill Avatar
    rodney dill

    So, you think the people who believe he is a naturally born citizen, that believe the Hawaii birth certificate is authentic, are as ‘hysterical’ as the birthers?

    I think “most” people are the third group, that accepts his citizenship, but would be open to real evidence to the contrary. I find the argument’s that he can’t possibly NOT be a US citizen as hysterical as the arguments that he can’t possibly be a US citizen. I personally lean toward the belief that he is a citizen. I also believe that if he weren’t, there won’t be any real evidence to prove it.

  18. Michael Avatar
    Michael

    I find the argument’s that he can’t possibly NOT be a US citizen as hysterical as the arguments that he can’t possibly be a US citizen.

    What? Who is making that argument? As far as I can tell, the two sides are the “third group” you describe and the Birthers. Or, as Alex described it, those who accepted objective reality and those who don’t.

  19. just me Avatar
    just me

    I am really ready for this issue to go away.

  20. Gus Avatar
    Gus

    If the Birthers weren’t all agitated about the lack of really-super-dooper-proof of Obama’s citizenship, they would be all agitated about something else — perhaps something else that isn’t obviously insane.

    I’d like to think that Obama learned a lesson from the Clinton administration — left to their own devices, many Republicans would have an ongoing investigation of any Democratic President, to destroy through innuendo and association or simple lies (Hillary Clinton murdered Vince Foster!) and a perpetual fishing expedition to see if the President has ever broken any law ever or provided misleading information to anyone.

    What better way to neutralize this faction than to leave them going around in circles on the patently insane claims? It discredits them, and it wastes their time. And it means that any actual substantive investigation of Obama has to deal with countless Birther idiots.

  21. Davebo Avatar
    Davebo

    It saddens me greatly to see political discourse moving ever more into the realm of nutjob conspiracy theories as the main argument against one’s opponent.

    This is not a new phenomenon to anyone who lived through the 90’s.

  22. floyd Avatar
    floyd

    Finally, the definitive strawman!
    …………………………………………..

    “”Of course, there simply is no conceivable evidence that would convince those who think Obama isn’t legitimately the president that he was born here.””
    “”””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””

    How about a copy of his Birth Certificate? Even though the delay has been enough to feed conspiracy theories, It couldn’t hurt?
    No “CONCEIVABLE” evidence?? VERY FUNNY!![lol]

  23. rodney dill Avatar
    rodney dill

    Gus pretty well proves my point…. I can’t stop laughing (hysterically).

  24. Michael Avatar
    Michael

    How about a copy of his Birth Certificate?

    Um, he did release a copy of his Birth Certificate.

  25. floyd Avatar
    floyd

    HMMM, No he didn’t.

  26. Michael Avatar
    Michael

    Oh, a Certification from the state of Hawaii isn’t enough for you?

  27. DC Loser Avatar
    DC Loser

    Michael – yours is a rhetorical question? Of course the answer from the birthers would be a resounding “No.” But for everybody else just google “Obama birth certificate” and go down the list of hits to see just what everybody else says.

  28. Michael Avatar
    Michael

    DC Loser, I agree on all points, I’m just not sure if floyd is a Birther or, like Eric, just contrary.

  29. PD Shaw Avatar
    PD Shaw

    From my recollection of reading the complaint filed by that California lawyer/doctor/realtor, it’s clear that authentication of the Hawaiian birth would not be enough. There are alternative, cascading theories in play.

    Plus, a growing argument that Obama has lied about the incidents of his birth, leading to the hope of perjury charges, regardless of how everything else sorts out.

    Perjury would be especially delicious as most people would necessarily concede being present for their birth, but knowing only the lies knowledge imparted by a parent. IIRC studies have shown that a surprising number of fathers listed on birth certificates cannot have been the actual sperm donor. Let the nationally-televised exhumations begin!

  30. Cranky Xenophobe Avatar
    Cranky Xenophobe

    Personally, I want to see the long-form birth certificates of all these people questioning the President. Absent that evidence, I’m going to assume that they’re foreign agitators trying to get decent Americans to fight amongst themselves.

    Every real American and real patriot knows that Obama is the President. He is commander-in-chief. But Orly Taitz is a damned Russian, for god’s sake! I’ll bet Putin is behind this!

  31. rodney dill Avatar
    rodney dill

    I guess we won’t be seeing a long-form birth certificate from Mr. Cranky Xenophobe anytime soon.

    What were Mr. and Mrs. Xenophobe thinking to give you a first name ‘Cranky’, or is that just a nickname.

  32. G.A.Phillips Avatar
    G.A.Phillips

    Guess Republicans need to hang their hats on something in the face of a recovering economy…

    lol, here we go……..

  33. Christopher Avatar
    Christopher

    I just caught the certificate, and by the looks of it, that is pure forgery. The reasons:

    1. 1964 is not the birth-year of Barack Obama, Jr. 1961 is his birth year.
    2. Mombasa, Kenya was part of Zanzibar, which was part of the British Union.
    3. S.P. Lavender, the signature, is not a real name. I heard it was a name of a laundry detergent.

    Someone tell me if I’m wrong or not, because a birther from the Republican Fascist Party said she retrieved the certificate. I would love to see this put to rest.

  34. Joe Camel Avatar
    Joe Camel

    It is a white mans conspiracy of course, meant to take down another stand up black politician in the mold of Hastings, Jackson(s), Jefferson(s), Sharpton, Conyers, Barry…Yes, if only whitey can get past this black president and what he is accomplishing.
    Nothing to see here. Move on. I hate to see the outcome if things keep “looking up” as some are saying. Spooky time to be alive.

  35. rodney dill Avatar
    rodney dill

    1964 is not the birth-year of Barack Obama, Jr. 1961 is his birth year.

    Maybe you should have looked at it instead of ‘caughted’ it. The certificate clearly states 1961 as the birth date, 1964 is the date this ‘certified’ copy was signed. So you have no credibility for the other two claims.

  36. Franklin Avatar
    Franklin

    Uh, Rodney, whether he has credibility or not, Mombasa was indeed part of Zanzibar in 1961.

    Also, I have yet to see one anti-Birther as hysterical as the people in the video posted the other day in another Birther thread. Those people were really quite scary. Lynch mob scary.

  37. anjin-san Avatar
    anjin-san

    Just caught an interview with Orly Taitz. Wow. Makes Palin look rational and eloquent by comparison. The “conservatives” seem to be seeing ever higher cliffs to hurl themselves from…

  38. rodney dill Avatar
    rodney dill

    Uh, Rodney, whether he has credibility or not, Mombasa was indeed part of Zanzibar in 1961.

    …and the document was created in 1964. It says it is a true copy of the birthing record (whatever that means). Whoever was in charge in ’64 would likely be listed on this document. You can’t tell what this is as a stand alone document. You would need to understand their process at the time and what was normally done for records as a comparison.

    And I tend to believe this document is false, and the Hawaiian one to be true, but people shouldn’t use disingenuous challenges to that point. If you think some anti-birthers aren’t ‘hysterical’ then you haven’t really paid attention to Anjin, Christopher, Gus, and some other comments above.

    Either document will be proven out or disproven based on thorough, real investigation, not based on what people want to believe they see based on an image of what someone posts in a blog.

  39. sam Avatar
    sam

    This just might be the final word on this nonsense:

    Is This the Source of the Forged ‘Kenyan Birth Certificate?’

    Short synopsis: Someone lifted an Australian birth certificate, and changed a few initials and other things. Voila! a Kenyan “birth certificate”. I wonder if Orly Taitz and Co. can be fined for filing a frivolous lawsuit?

  40. anjin-san Avatar
    anjin-san

    If you think some anti-birthers aren’t ‘hysterical’ then you haven’t really paid attention to Anjin,

    Why don’t you show me when I am being “hysterical” Rod? Sorry, but this Taitz woman is a nutjob, if you want hysterics, catch one of her interviews.

    Or is this comment of mine “hysterical”?

    Guess Republicans need to hang their hats on something in the face of a recovering economy.

    .

    No one expects much from you Rodney, but even you can do better?

  41. Our Paul Avatar
    Our Paul

    Leave it to Ann Telnaes to have the final word!!!

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