Republicans Cower In Fear In The Face Of Trump And His Supporters
Republicans are afraid to oppose Donald Trump for fear that his supporters will come after them.
When the contest for the Republican nomination was going on, and indeed right up until the Republican National Convention itself, Republicans on Capitol Hill as well as a great portion of the Republican “establishment” were quite loud in their opposition to Trump. Many of them, for example, were reportedly behind largely futile schemes to prevent him from getting a majority of delegates to the convention in the hope that a floor fight would lead to the nomination of a different candidate. Others were reportedly engaged in the largely futile search for a third-party candidate to give conservatives an option other than voting for Hillary Clinton or getting behind an established third-party candidate such as Libertarian Party nominee Gary Johnson, who ran on a platform that was actually consistent with the principles of smaller government and individual liberty that conservatives claim to believe in. This opposition in the background continued for much of the General Election, especially when it appeared that Trump was going to lead the party to disaster by threatening the loss of the Senate and losses in other down-ballot races. Republicans in vulnerable seats, such as Senators Mark Kirk, Ron Johnson, Rob Portman, Pat Toomey, and Kelly Ayotte, distanced themselves from Trump while others did their best to stay invisible when it came to Trump. The most notable example of the latter, of course, was Speaker of the House Paul Ryan, who took longer than most prominent national Republicans to officially say he would support Trump after he won the nomination and who openly criticized Trump several times during the course of the campaign when some controversial remark from Trump put his fellow Republicans on the spot.
Once Trump won the election, though, things began to change rapidly. Republicans who had been critical of Trump began flocking to his offices at Trump Tower to curry favor with the President-Elect. Others who had openly criticized him during the primary began to clamor for positions in the Administration and became obsequious in their praise for the same person who they were denouncing only months earlier. Even people like Mitt Romney, who had made a scathing speech in March that seemed like a declaration of war against the New York real estate developer, gladly met with Trump when word leaked out that he was being considered for the position of Secretary of State. On Capitol Hill, the number of Republicans willing to say anything negative about the new President-Elect shrank drastically and, now, as Politico reports, Republicans on Capitol Hill are afraid to confront Donald Trump for fear of raising the ire of his supporters, a sign that any hope that the House or Senate will end up being much of a check on after he takes the oath of office in less than a month:
It’s little wonder that Capitol Hill Republicans have papered over their not-insignificant policy differences with Trump, shying away from any statement about the president-elect that might possibly be construed as critical. They’re terrified of arousing the ire of their tempestuous new leader — or being labeled a turncoat by his army of followers.
It’s a novel form of party message discipline that stems from Trump but doesn’t necessarily require the president-elect to speak or tweet himself. Plenty of others are willing to do it for him.
Since the election, numerous congressional Republicans have refused to publicly weigh in on any Trump proposal at odds with Republican orthodoxy, from his border wall to his massive infrastructure package. The most common reason, stated repeatedly but always privately: They’re afraid of being attacked by Breitbart or other big-name Trump supporters.“Nobody wants to go first,” said Rep. Mark Sanford (R-S.C.), who received nasty phone calls, letters and tweets after he penned an August op-ed in The New York Times, calling on Trump to release his tax returns. “People are naturally reticent to be the first out of the block for fear of Sean Hannity, for fear of Breitbart, for fear of local folks.”
An editor at Breitbart, formerly run by senior Trump adviser Steve Bannon, said that fear is well-founded.
“If any politician in either party veers from what the voters clearly voted for in a landslide election … we stand at the ready to call them out on it and hold them accountable,” the person said.
Republican Hill staffers have wrestled in recent months with how to respond to inquiries from Breitbart or other pro-Trump bloggers. Engage them or ignore them? One GOP aide told POLITICO members are “damned if you do, damned if you don’t.” Another said it’s having a “chilling effect” on GOP lawmakers.
The Republican officeholders see Trump’s unabashed use of his Twitter account to shame critics as the most foreboding threat. During campaign season, he regularly took shots at adversaries, including Marco Rubio (“Little Marco”), Ted Cruz (“Lyin’ Ted,”) and Speaker Paul Ryan (a “very weak and ineffective leader”).
Trump hasn’t gone after any lawmakers on Twitter since the election, but some worry it’s just a matter of time. Eventually, some Republican will feel compelled to challenge his trillion-dollar infrastructure plan, or slap companies that move jobs overseas with massive tariffs. And that’s when things will get ugly, insiders predict.
Flores did not respond to a request for comment for this story. But his remarks to a conference at the American Enterprise Institute on Dec. 1 seemed relatively tame and didn’t make headlines at first.
Flores admitted that Trump’s new brand of populist conservatism wouldn’t always mesh with the priorities of Capitol Hill Republicans. But he went on to suggest it wouldn’t be a big problem, emphasizing that Republicans had plenty to collaborate on, such as tax reform, repealing Obamacare and passing a border security plan.
“Let’s work on the things we know where we’re together,” Flores said, “and then we’ll figure out the rest in the next six months.”
Breitbart picked up the remarks several days later. Its post linked Flores to Ryan and argued that the Texan’s comments hinted at a GOP leadership ploy to quietly stifle Trump’s campaign promises.
Hannity highlighted the Breitbart story on his talk show the next day. The Fox News host told his radio listeners that talk of pursuing areas of agreement was Beltway-speak for telling Trump to “go to hell.”
On one level, of course, it’s not at all surprising that criticism of Trump from the right has calmed down in the wake of the election. Thanks to his victory, Republicans have control of the two most powerful branches of the Federal Government for the first time in a decade and the thought of what they can do with that is no doubt outweighing whatever concerns they have about Trump as President of the United States. Additionally, it’s traditionally been the case that a newly elected President ends up with some sort of ’honeymoon” period during the period after the election. We can see this reflected in the fact that Trump’s favorable/unfavorable numbers have become distinctly more positive in the weeks since the election, although a majority of the country still has a negative opinion of him. Additionally, even many Democrats on Capitol Hill have been more cordial toward the incoming President-Elect than they were during the height of the campaign against him. Given that, it’s no surprise that Republicans that were critical of Trump during the campaign are getting in line behind him. For better or worse, once he becomes President he will be the leader of their party and able to weild significant power to enforce party discipline. Additionally, there are many Republicans on Capitol Hill who are quite obviously hoping that Trump will essentially cede control of the legislative agenda to the Republican-controlled House and Senate and that this will enable them to pass many of the measures that they were unable to pass after winning control of the House in 2010, such as tax reform, entitlement reform, and other measures. Whether that turns out to be the case or not remains to be seen, of course, but for the time being it’s unlikely we’ll hear much criticism of Trump from Republicans with the exception of a handful of people such as Senators John McCain and Rand Paul, both of whom have remained critical of Trump and many of his Cabinet choices even as their fellow Republicans seek to curry favor with the new Administration.
The Politico article is particularly concerning, though, because it suggests that it’s unlikely we’ll see much dissent from Capitol Hill during a Trump Administration even if he starts to show his demagogic side once he’s in office, and even if he begins to attempt to enact some of the more controversial of the agenda that he campaigned on, such as his plans for immigration policy, the War on Terror, and the treatment of Muslims who want to come to the United States. Additionally, as we’ve noted here at OTB several times since the election, Donald Trump is entering office with a whole host of ethical issues tied to his business interests hanging over his head. The fact that Republicans are already being cowered into silence by Trump and his army of supporters does not bode well for any idea that Congress will perform its oversight duties even if it becomes apparent that the President is acting in a way that seems more about enhancing his wealth and power than leading the nation pursuant to the Constitution. It also makes it unlikely that they will be in any way aggressive in investigating any allegations of wrongdoing by the Trump Administration no matter how much evidence there might be to support it.
This isn’t entirely surprising, of course. Republicans were loath to criticize George W. Bush until the final years of his Administration when his job approval numbers were at lows unseen since Harry Truman was President. By then, of course, the damage had been done and the party paid a steep price for it at the polls in 2006 and 2008. With their party now back in full control of the government, though, those days seem to have been completely forgotten and many Republicans are more than happy to hand over power to a man with absolutely no government experience at a time when the nation and the world seems as though they’re both teetering on the edge of a turning point that could become a long-term crisis. Those who aren’t are both small in number and, for the most part, afraid to say anything for fear of being attacked by Trump, his supporters, and the people at Breitbart, who are sadly becoming more powerful with the ascendancy of Trump to the Presidency. That’s hardly a profile in courage, and I’m afraid we’re all going to pay the price for it at some point.
Republicans, as a rule, are cowards. This Republican Congress is even worse. Trump has carte blanche to do as he wishes.
Dark days are upon us.
People are naturally reticent to be the first out of the block for fear of Sean Hannity, for fear of Breitbart, for fear of local folks
This is becoming surreal. No senior Republicans have the balls to even consider standing up to Trump? Also, let’s be clear that this is not both sides do it. The Democrats might be bad, but I don’t believe for a second that no Democrats would speak out if a spectacularly unqualified amoral pig who was a Democrat were elected president. I guess the fact that you heard nothing when he named Bannon, a racist white nationalist (supremacist?) as senior adviser spoke volumes.
How anyone with more than two brain cells can self-identify as a Republican these days is beyond me.
What landslide election? An extremely narrow EC vote (#46 out 56 elections) and an almost 3 million vote popular election loss? WTF? I thought the Bushies were upside down. These Trumpistas are delusional. And yet the sheep in the media allow them to continue to get away with this nonsense.
No push-back by Congress or the Media dooms our Republic to the banana bin.
“Additionally, it’s traditionally been the case that a newly elected President ends up with some sort of ’honeymoon” period during the period after the election. ”
Well, except for the previously elected President, against whom the opposition party was planning scorched earth tactics as he was being inaugurated.
Interesting, Republicans are afraid of their own shadows now.
Republicans are the new Jacobins
During the campaign, Trump ripped the mask of hypocrisy off of two large constituencies: Tea Party and Right wing Christians (yes, they overlap a lot). Trump’s proposals will add at least $10B to the national debt. Tea party people demonstrated they care nothing of deficits and debt. And the right wing Christians voted in droves for the least Christian candidate in history. Now Trump will demonstrate that the Congressional Republican have no real beliefs or principles. I’d laugh if it weren’t so pathetic.
Republican principles = Speak loudly, carry a tiny stick.
The elephant mascot should be replaced with a sniveling, whiny toddler. (White, of course.)
Of course Republicans will be spineless cowards. They’re getting a tax cut. The principles they used to pretend to believe in are all money-soluble.
@Scott:
I don’t know about that. I think we’ve seen that the desire to f*ck the poors and give tax cuts to the rich are the only driving principles left for the GOP. They’ll suck up to Putin and Trump for their fix.
I would question if this is cowardice in facing Trump. I would suggest that the cowardice has been more historical, that until Trump won they had been afraid of displaying open racism, misogyny, greed and corruption. Now that those have proven to be tools, not detriments, and they may be getting a tax cut no further cowardice is needed.
Slightly off-topic:
Trumps new Washington Hotel – the one he using the power of his office to strong-arm people into patronizing – has been ranked the third WORST new luxury hotel in the world.
https://www.washingtonian.com/2016/12/20/travel-group-dc-trump-hotel-one-worlds-worst-new-luxury-hotels/
This is bizarre. What exactly are they afraid *of*? His supporters are loud but not many. It’s probable that a sizable number of his voters didn’t even care much for him (I know a few who are already having buyer’s remorse). They don’t even hold a lot of economic clout.
My suspicion is that Congressional leaders have watched and learned, you get what you want from Trump when you flatter him. They’ll get their agenda pushed through and signed and then do whatever they want to.
@al-Ameda: To be fair, their shadows are horrifying.
There’s another aspect to this that I’m surprised I haven’t seen much discussion of, which is that Trump throughout his career has operated essentially by threatening and intimidating people into submission (his lawsuits, his NDAs), and I suspect that’s how he’s going to handle Congress, basically as the thug-in-chief.
How dare those Republicans not follow the courageous example of the Democrats in Congress who relentlessly and loudly opposed President Obama’s policy of targeted assassinations around the world!
Wait…what?
Mike
@Pch101: The elephant mascot should be replaced with a sniveling, whiny toddler. (White, of course.)
I don’t know, I think that is being generous. Their party leader is in whiny mode 100% of the time when he doesn’t get how own way. I have a 6 year old grandchild who sometimes whines when she doesn’t get her own way. The point is she sometimes whines. That’s one difference. The other being that, although I am somewhat biased, my granddaughter is basically the most adorable creature on earth. As opposed to Trump, a bullying, multi-chinned, man-boobed pig wearing a deceased ferret on his head.
I’m guessing his my way or the highway won’t work too well when dealing with other world leaders. Especially when they realize what an uninformed buffoon he really is.
I think Shakespeare had a quote in Julius Caesar about cowards dying a thousand times . . .
We’ll see what happens once actual policy proposals come down. But put this in the box of why I voted Clinton even though I disagree with her on almost everything. At least the Republicans would have opposed her. My fear that they will refuse to oppose Trump is looking more likely.
It’s spineless because there are Republicans opposing him — Ben Sasse, Rand Paul, Justin Amash. And they aren’t suffering for it. Quite the contrary. They’re allowing themselves to be intimidated by Breitbart and a crowd of Pepe meme tweeters.
They’ll find their guts … after Trump tanks the economy or is embroiled in some giant scandal. Then suddenly they’ll all have opposed Trump the entire time.
@MBunge:
Targeted assassinations?
Please expound…
Republicans are cowards? Really? You think?
Anyone who’s noticed foreign policy in the last 30 or so yrs. night have seen that Republicans are inordinately scared of virtually everything “other”, from women wearing headcoverings to gay people marrying to the inevitable Commie (or Muslim, doesn’t matter as long as it scares them) hordes invading. Although they’ve somehow managed not to give a darn about climate change.
They are scared children who want Authoritarian Daddy to keep them safe from the boogie-man & the tax-collector, & are completely w/o principles or an actual morality.
@C. Clavin: Drone warfare, he means.
Collateral damage is O.K. when you’re a Republican, but let a “Democratic” missile hit someone not intended as a target & it’s the end of the world.
@Scott:
Yup, it has begun.
@M. Bouffant:
Collateral damage is targeted assassination?
I guess it’s time to stop taking Mike seriously.
@Pch101:
That’s very Lena Dunhamesque of you….
@Hal_10000:
I suspect that they will never find their guts. They’ll either fall in line, or their careers will end. It’s either that or become Democrats, right?
That the Republicans would bend over for Trump is completely to be expected and not worthy of much discussion.
The question is “Will Democrats, for once, not let them get away with it?”
Sigh. Another day, another thread of infantile feces hurling……….impotently. You guys sure are tough hombres……snicker.
“I don’t believe for a second that no Democrats would speak out if a spectacularly unqualified amoral pig who was a Democrat were elected president.”
Right. That must be why the Democrats disastrously cleared the field for Hillary Clnton. Smooth move there.
@C. Clavin: “I guess it’s time to stop taking Mike seriously.”
Yes. In the same way it’s time to accept that the Beatles aren’t getting back together.
Trump has carte blanche to do as he wishes.
Cliffie: Is that anything like Pelosi’s (sic) “We have to pass the bill before you see what’s inside it”?
Or Obama’s: “I won. Get over it”?
@Guarneri: You seriously believe that Clinton and Trump are equal? Trump bragged about a sexual predator. Trump stole from his own charity. Trump thinks its okay to mock a person’s disability. Trump was part of a multi-million dollar sham university. Trump has cheated hundreds, if not thousands of contractors out of money owed to them. Trump spent years trying to de-legitimize our current president by pushing a racist narrative. Trump has openly lusted after his own daughter, and laughed as a fellow pig joked that she is nice piece of ass. Tired of typing, these are just the obvious ones.
@Guarneri:
Why are you complaining?
Comey, Putin and Assange took care of everything for you.
No Hillary Clinton did that. As well as DNC operatives. This wasn’t the Russians. I’m not convinced the Russians did anything if you want to know the truth.
I mean how much are we going to blame the Russians for?
http://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/blog/2016/12/20/aaron-hernandez-russian-hackers/
@john430: “Cliffie: Is that anything like Pelosi’s (sic) “We have to pass the bill before you see what’s inside it”?”
Are you really so stupid that all these years later you STILL don’t understand that this was taken out of context by right-wing faux news and didn’t actually mean what you claim it means?
Or are you such a sleazeball that you know it’s a lie and choose to spread it anyway?
Really, I’d love to know.
@Scott:
They’ll agree to more spending if it’s only 50% paid for. If Boehner and Ryan had mad that kind of a deal with Obama, they would have been flayed alive.
@wr:
Hanlon’s razor: Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
Although in John’s case, it’s a sort of malicious stupidity.
@wr: you’re still trying to sell that one, are you ?
Snicker
A positive of this election? We now have a third party. The Libertarians have permanent ballot status in 37 states, thus saving millions in ballot access drives. In Alaska Joe Miller for U.S. Senate came in second. The Democrat got only 11.1%. First time in history for a Libertarian to come in second. Plus they got nearly 4 million votes. They have been slowly growing since 1972 when their VP candidate Ms Tonie Nathan became the first woman to receive an electoral vote. A new day has dawned!
@Eric Florack: You mean the truth? Yes. Even to useful idiots who embrace every appealing lie when they know the truth.
@SenyorDave:
You are a walking, talking cliche.
Keep it up. Soon thre will be even fewer selected Dems.
@al-Ameda:
I thought you were better than that. What next, that shining example of a candidate lost because of a basket of goose stepping, Neanderthal deplorables ? Or did she press the wrong reset button with Putin?
@wr: Hey, dickhead- I read the entire 20 min speech.
“But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of the controversy. The ending phrase doesn’t change one iota of context. She said screw you- we’ll pass whatever we want to, away from the fog of controversy.
And…it turned out to be a legislative piece of horseshit.
Or are you such a sleazeball that you know it’s a lie and choose to spread it anyway?
PS: If you partner with Pch101, don’t let him near your children.
@SenyorDave: I’d like to sponsor a DNA paternity test for you Senyor. You’re such an apologist for that Democrat sexual predator that I think you might actually be related to Bill Clinton.
When did you mom meet him?
@michael reynolds: spineless cowards. They’re getting a tax cut.
Yeah, they want parity with all the tax breaks that Hollywood and the entertainment industry get.
You know, like some of the ones you feed from.
Someone needs to let John know that adults who aren’t suffering from arrested development don’t tell mom jokes in earnest.
@Guarneri:
Jeez, drama queen alert.
You’re bringing up goose-stepping Neanderthal stuff? “Deplorables?” Whatever.
As you know well, Trump owes Comey and Putin, and a few of his proposed appointments are an acknowledgment of that.
@john430: Oh, so you’re stupid. Thanks for clarifying.
…maybe instead of cowering the Republicans could join in the feckless whining about Trump that has been going on at OTB.
“elections have consequences”……
and the gop’s failure to support trump is not lost on him. he will work with them however, as he’s already moved on from the hateful liberoids who hate anything they’re told to hate.
at least we don’t have to worry about republicans taking to the streets and burning/looting their towns in some form of “protest”. talk about cowards……
@rodney dill:
Trump supporters are the angriest and most bitter winners I’ve come across in years.
@al-Alameda:
You have to wonder why that is. Is it because they really don’t have any real goals and objectives except sticking it to the man? Is it because no one is bowing and scraping to their win?
I do know that Trump supporters really cannot discuss legislation and policy with any sort of coherence. I’m sure that frustrates them.
I would like to know the difference between either party. Also I would like to know why some here call white people angry raciest, when their words are beyond raciest.
@barbintheboonies:
::Punches self in face, lights self on fire, jumps off roof::
@Guarneri: ” Another day, another thread of infantile feces ”
You should probably stop flinging it, then. No one takes you seriously as it is.
@rodney dill: don’t forget the laughing about Trump.
It’s not a healthy laughter — it’s the sad, resigned laughter of someone who knows we’re in for a terrible time, but takes some malevolent solace in the fact that those who pushed us towards this are going to suffer more than those who didn’t. But, it’s laughter.
Also, there are now stories that John Bolton didn’t get hired because of his mustache. If true, that’s pretty funny.
@barbintheboonies:
What’s wrong with being sexy?
As I have noted multiple times in various posts: this is how we expect a party to behave in a presidential system: its hi party now.
I don’t think that requires any further comment…
@al-Alameda: @al-Alameda: Maybe I’ll see that in the Trump supporters one day too… after they stop laughing.
@Scott: You neglect to mention that Democrat supporters are hurling racist insults, attacking religious beliefs and calling for invalidating a valid election. Now THAT’S angry bigotry
@john430: I said nothing about bigotry, or even racism or misogyny. Or are you using that as an excuse for being bad winners? At some point, you got to step up and say what you are for and what you believe in.
@Scott: It’s called “projection.”
@john430:
Your definition of “racism” plays well over at Breitbart, but it doesn’t match what is known to fluent English speakers.
Denouncing racists for being racists is not racism, anymore than denouncing the Nazis would be antisemitic. Not that I would expect an infant in a man’s body who thinks that mom jokes are funny to understand something this simple, but you really should realize that grownups have good reason to dismiss you as an idiot.
@barbintheboonies: Are you doing Huey Long’s famous “there’s not a dime’s worth of difference between the Republicrats and Democans” or do you really not see any difference between the platforms of the Democrats and the Republicans.
Now I know that people in Longview are supposed to be proud of their ignorance–I taught kids who talked about it at Lower Columbia College–but you are really taking this pride of ignorance thing a step too far.
@Just ‘nutha ig’rant cracker: Well you are part of the problem because some of the teachers there were just as ignorant as the kids. I am not from Longview I am from Boston and lived many years in Portland Or. I live in SW Washington now but I am in no way of the same politics as the people I live near. Lower Columbia College is a joke of school.
Most of the Republicans on the hill will have no problem with groveling before the King of Vichy America if it helps them make the rich richer and the poor poorer.
@barbintheboonies:
Democrats actually care if people that are not wealthy have access to health care. They are not going to throw people that have been paying into Social Security and Medicare under the bus. They won’t screw families with disabled children. They don’t believe in second class citizenship for anyone in America.
There. Now you know some things that apparently you did not when you got up this morning.
@barbintheboonies: Well, when the Republicans finally get rid of Medicare and Social Security, you’ll find out, won’t you?
Anyone who doesn’t see a difference between the parties probably doesn’t have the IQ to get out of bed in the morning.
@grumpy realist: I cannot see the difference in how both sides decide to pick and choose who is on their side. When we include all Americans we will be better off. It is extremely bigoted of you and many others here to broad-brush middle America to want someone on their side as much as you defend people who are not American citizens. You could care less about their feelings and their families. What if it was you and your family, would you be so smug.
@Just ‘nutha ig’rant cracker: It makes me sick that you are a teacher and call your students ignorant. Maybe you just suck at your job.
FFS, disliking people because they voted for an openly racist, Islamophobic and mysogynistic candidate isn’t bigotry — in fact, it’s the opposite.
Disliking the racists for being racist is not racist, anymore than a fireman who extinguishes fires is an arsonist because he is opposed to fires.
Some of you must believe that 1984 was a training manual. This unabashed butchery and twisting of the language can only be compelling among the feeble-minded.
@Pch101: You are constantly blaming white people for everything here. Yes I find that raciest. I was jumped all over for saying we need to stop or slow down on our immigration, and was jumped on big time. Then people here can say all the red state people are ignorant, bigots and should just get off their lazy asses and go to school. Nobody here says hey you guys having 5 to 10 kids stop it, why is it, because they are true blue? It sounds a bit hypocritical. You picked and chose who you would back up and it bothers you that some do not agree with your choice. I hope Trump will make America better, I had no reason to believe Clinton would have made any difference. She never said what her plan was for America. I know adding millions of more people in our country, would never help. It just cheapens the labor force. I did not vote for Trump, but now that he is in, I will wait and see before I criticize everything he does. I do not like a lot of what he had done and said, but I did not like a lot of what the Clintons did either. If choosing Americans over immigrants is raciest, well so be it.
@barbintheboonies:
I tried to run your post through Google Translate, but gibberish wasn’t one of the options.
@barbintheboonies:
Actually, we are within shouting distance of a labor shortage in this county, assuming that Trump does not trash all the hard work Obama put in rebuilding the economy from the meltdown he inherited.
@anjin-san:
The hard right has suddenly discovered the labor force participation rate.
Unfortunately, they have absolutely no idea what it means, confusing it with the unemployment rate (which it isn’t), so they have absolutely no idea that the economy is close to full employment.
I voted for Republicans for many years…but I just can’t ignore the fact that Trump is a loon and the GOP is a bunch of self serving cowards.
@barbintheboonies: I live in the boonies myself. And the problems out here in the sticks are not too many immigrants. It is too little skill and education.
@anjin-san:
While I totally agree about Trump trashing the rebuilt economy, I have a hard time believing we’re close to a labor shortage. Anyone who has young adults in the family is going to have a hard time believing it … the jobs simply aren’t there, even for people with trades and degrees, that were there then I graduated (too many) decades ago.
@george:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2015/05/07/jobs-numbers-labor-shortage-baby-boomers-inflation-editorials-debates/70973518/
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/desperately-seeking-workers-the-looming-job-crunch/
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-03-21/this-economist-foresees-15-years-of-labor-shortages
@Terrye Cravens: Both party`s are self serving cowards. They feel where the wind is b lowing and follow like sheep. I live in the boonies but I still have to commute to the city for work. I see all the homeless living on the streets of Portland due to shortages in housing, and many with jobs, still cannot afford to live there. Then the media puts out these stories of immigrants getting help for their families. Great, but what about our homeless. Is it because Democrats need the immigrant vote? I think so. So it is time to start caring for your own country men and women. Portland has become another over crowded hell hole. It used to be the most beautiful and safe place to live. Now people are killing each other and ripping each other off. It is not a safe place anymore. It will get worse if population grows at this pace. Why should we be forced to suck it up, while others get a free ride. Housing, health care, food stamps, schooling, and the compassion of all you. All this as you spit in American faces.
@Pch101: You are such a whiny baby. I`m so glad I cannot hear you. I picture you as a big mouth bully who has to be the smartest ass in the room.
@barbintheboonies:
I’m curious, who do you think is getting all these goodies? Illegal immigrants?
@barbintheboonies:
The homeless were living in misery long before the current wave of immigration. Don’t blame the brown people, look in the mirror.
@barbintheboonies:
Of course actual data and facts show otherwise…
http://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-Portland-Oregon.html
@barbintheboonies: Do not give me that crap. I live in a rural area of Indiana. Locals are whining about foreigners and yet they are the ones on food stamps and medicaid. They have this idea that they are owed a middle class lifestyle whether they have the skills or education to earn it. And Trump has conned them into thinking that is possible. It is not. And these Republicans who are kissing his butt right now know that he is a lying, thieving scum bag hypocrite, but most of them do not have the balls to say it. After all, a steel worker for Carrier got death threats directed at him and his family just because he pointed out the fact that Trump lied about that deal. That is how it is now…Trump and his mob are running the party.And for that reason, I left the party.
@george: I think it depends a lot on where you are. Back when I was younger people were far more likely to move for a job. That does not happen so much anymore. There are parts of the country where labor is very tight.
@anjin-san:
I’ve seen projections like that before; for a long time it was about a huge shortage of STEM workers. And yet those shortages never seemed to come to pass, and I’m skeptical that the predictions were ever more than an excuse to outsource jobs to keep wages low.
It doesn’t affect me, I graduated in engineering decades ago, and have so much experience that it’d be trivial to find another job if I got tired of my present one. But for recent graduates its becoming extremely hard to find that vital first job in their field, something made increasingly hard by all the out sourcing of jobs, moreso than immigration, which I don’t think affects the job market in a big way. That is, I think the decline in well paying jobs (I agree there might be a coming shortage of workers for low paying jobs) has more to do with globalization than immigration, but the decline seems to be real, and given the ease of outsourcing such jobs, I doubt its going to change.
Add to that the marked improvement of expert systems and robotics, and my guess is that the predicted shortage is simply not going to happen for anything but menial jobs. I don’t think immigration is going to make much of a difference one way or another in terms of employment, but I do think that we’re going to have to do something about the lack of middle class opportunities. Counting on future shortages to restore the middle class is, I think, a pipe dream.
Which is why things like a guaranteed annual income, and reduced work week might be necessary just to keep society functioning smoothly (not to mention the lives of the next generation, our descendants). A mass of underemployed, frustrated, poor and bored youth is not good for anyone.
@Terrye Cravens:
But what is the quality of work in those tight labor markets? I moved for better employment several times (and in fact am in Canada now – as a side note, in case anyone wonders, I would never trade the Canadian public health, with all its problems, for Obamacare, let alone the mess that existed before in America, though I would trade the Canadian system for the Swiss or French systems).
But those moves were for satisfying and well paying jobs. Moving to gain minimum wage at menial work? I don’t know, I can understand why young folks stay at home rather than do that – for one thing, those wages barely pay the cost of living in many places, whereas living with mom and dad at least means you’re not destitute.
@barbintheboonies:
So how many homeless people do you let live on your property? Got a spare bedroom, basement or garage space? Give a homeless veteran a chance and take them in as a guest. Got spare food or money? Go find a homeless person and give them what you have.
Caring starts at home, barb. Much like the loons who scream about abortion but don’t give a damn about babies being supported once born, I gotta ask: what are you doing personally that gives you the right to chastise others for not caring enough? If it matters to you enough, then you should be doing all you can for your cause. If every family took on one homeless person for at least one month a year, there’d be no one on the streets. Go start that initiative and see how middle-America responds to be asked to take their fellow countrymen in need unto their bosom. NIMBY will kick in so fast your head will spin.
We can solve homelessness TODAY barb but we won’t because middle-America doesn’t give that much of a crap. But boooo immigrants!!!
@george:
This country is awash in stuff; there is no lack of material goods. We do have a distribution problem though. Distribution of wealth and material. With the steady progress of automation and soon, artificially intelligent systems, the problem we will face will not be economic but moral and spiritual. I think a new economic model will be necessary. One that addresses or at least supports the need for useful existence. Not capitalism nor socialism but something new. I don’t know what that is but I see the gap.
@barbintheboonies:
FYI this does not mean what you think it means.
Racist = someone discriminating on basis of race.
Raciest = the most lively, entertaining, and typically mildly titillating sexually thing ever
…. unless the Freudian slips keep happening like clockwork with you…..
@george:
We need to make extended family living socially acceptable again. It may be pie in the sky but an intergenerational bargain may alleviate some of the future societal stresses. Of course, we will have to relearn how to do that without coming to hate your family members. Maybe it doesn’t have to be family that lives together.
@Scott :
^^ This. This so much. America is so weird in that we toss our young and financially weak out to the housing market at the beginning of their careers instead of letting them build their wealth. It makes NO sense yet 18-n-out-the-door is so ingrained in our culture its ridiculous. I’d rather a 20yr with college debt live and home to pay it off then be free to buy a house or larger ticket items then have them end up 35, 2 kids and drowning in debt from a tiny apt.
As for hating family, at lot of that would resolve with the recognition that your child isn’t a loser because they can’t find a job in a failing economy and they are not mooches, failures or live-in slaves because they can’t find a house/apt/cardboard box under the overpass. Adults can live together peacefully as long as everyone treats everyone else as *adults*, not enlarged children. The rest of the world does it, why can’t we?
@george:
The facts are what they are. Your beliefs don’t change the facts. Humans long believed that the earth was flat because it sure seemed that way, but their feelings didn’t alter the reality.
In any case, you live in a different country, one that happens to have an unemployment rate that is almost 7%, which makes your gut feelings about the US even more suspect.
@KM:
I would presume that “Barb” is a parody, a persona that is based upon stereotypes of rural America.
@barbintheboonies: I thought that “immigrate to the US, work hard, be thrifty, and succeed” was the American Way?
If we were to do a comparison between immigrants and non-immigrants, guess which would have the higher percentage of those who drug themselves out of their minds? I doubt it’s the immigrants. Most immigrants buckle down and work hard. It’s not my responsibility if the US-born whiners in the country can’t get a leg up because they can’t get their act together. It’s theirs.
@Pch101 :
No the rage is quite real and actually understandable to a point. After all, things like homelessness and lack of jobs are a plague that’s ever present in parts of the country. I can’t really begrudge someone from the boonies voicing their plight because that was me a few years ago. I *get* what barb and those like her are saying on a gut level – they look around, see things are bad and want to know why X gets help and Y is left to rot. It’s a terrible feeling to think whole regions and groups have been abandoned by their nation. I just take it one step further and look at it logically rather then emotionally – what situation is causing X to get help and Y nothing?
Like grumpy mentioned, quite a bit of it is a sense of entitlement on the part of Y in that by virtue of being born on a particular piece of soil, they deserve more then someone who tried their damnedest to get to this soil to prosper. If we are truly the egalitarian meritocracy our mythology says we are, then the immigrant is clearly the more deserving choice. Its also because every time something comes up to help Y, conservatives shoot it down claiming private charities should be enough and tax money shouldn’t be wasted on “those people”. Since Y keeps voting conservatives into power, one can easily make the argument that Y is shooting themselves in the foot and blaming X for the wound.
But one needs to think, not feel. Step away from drilled-in ideas and ask where that idea came from in the first place. Kinda hard to do when Main Street is rotting away and the airwaves are filled with lies about why. Barb’s real and a great example of why this country’s about to go down the tubes. They felt Trump was the better choice, the hope they were looking for. Something, anything to reverse the damage. Too bad they should have thought about who Trump really was and not trusted a nebulous “believe me” and simplistic they-did-it mentality.
@KM:
I know that there are people who are similar to Barb. But I also suspect that our Barb is a fake, as the characterization is a bit over the top.
@Pch101 :
Meh. I’m not a fan of the concept that if someone look like they’re hamming it up, its a parody or troll account. Some people just sound like that and if they talk like that, why not type like that? Oh well, to each his own. Agree to disagree.
@KM:
Both of us are just speculating, of course, but I find some of the points to be too stereotypical to be taken seriously. (For example, the irony of confusing “racist” with “raciest” is just a little bit too perfect…)
@Pch101: Funny I think your a pretentious buffoon too.
@KM: Well excuse me, I make mistakes. Who cares, but buffoons who have nothing better to do than point them out. If I was from another country would I get a pass from you? If you know what I meen then who the hell cares.
@grumpy realist: Yes it does, but when many who cross illegally get the same benefits as Americans I have a problem with that. Every year more and more come across and walk straight to the welfare office. They get housing before Americans because they have kids. They also have husbands working illegally. Schools need to make special classes for them, then cut out something due to budget cuts. They come here in poverty and are granted more and given more than US citizens. I guess you do not have the homeless situation as we do here in the great NW maybe Ill. is too cold. Our kids here are told to change everything they ever knew to make way for the immigrants. We cannot have Christmas pageants anymore but let`s celebrate every other cultural holiday. Let`s put down all Americans and every thing they stand for because it offends everyone else. I can see you are a teacher and you see first hand the impact on these children. I feel for them too, but just like charities we can only give so much, and we need to think about our families. I do not believe if you are so poor and depend on others to take care of you, that you should burden them even further by having more kids. If you wish to take care of them, then you do it. Take them into your home.
@KM: I always respected the Asian people for this too. They all work hard together, and when Mom and Dad get old they stay at home to take care of the children. I do believe we are heading back to that.
@KM: The reason I do not let just anyone live on my property is fear. I would not subject my family to the drug addicts, and people with mental disabilities. I do however support the homeless shelters, and if I could afford more I would. I never saw Hillary and her foundation building housing for the homeless, she could well afford it.
@barbintheboonies:
Um, before you go on a harangue against “illegal immigrants” you might want to address those of your own group who do this as well.
Wasn’t there something said once about “taking the beam out of your own eye before chastising another for the speck in theirs”?
@barbintheboonies :
Wah wah wah. So you’re a War on Christmas-er too. Why am I not surprised?
How you celebrate is up to you. If it so important, spend all day in church, decorate your house up the wazoo and wish every damn person you meet a Merry Christmas. Build a little Christmas world for yourselves and stay in it till Dec 26th. 95% of us don’t care – we’re too busy trying to wrap that last present. If you need things labeled Xmas on every surface and a specific greeting from a stranger to make a holiday meaningful, it clearly doesn’t mean much at all. Christmas is about family and faith – neither should be so weak outside validation is absolutely necessary for it to matter.
@grumpy realist: My sister lives in Ma due to health and a divorce she is on the verge of being homeless. She has been on a list for low income housing for 2 years. Her home had been foreclosed upon 2 years ago she still lives in it, and just can afford the utilities. She just received a letter informing her she needs to vacate the premises in 30 days. She needs to go into a shelter if she is to ever get housing. I told her to stay with me, but she wants to stay in Ma, or she could live with one daughter but that will keep her from getting permanent housing. Her other daughter is in the same situation, only she has 3 kids and an ex who pays nothing and lives with his divorced father. She was told to go to a shelter too. Rents are more than they can afford. Americans get much less help than immigrants. Visit the housing projects they are full of them. The media focuses mostly on them as victims, and they demonized poor white Americans, as lazy lowlifes.
@barbintheboonies:
Trump’s a (supposed) billionaire, tell him to get on that. He could build or support a shelter in every town with his own money, charities be damned. Tell his kids to do the same. No government money, just private charity like Carnegie of old.
But hey Hillary, amirite?
@KM: Do not feel sorry for me I will be alright. Many of you here think it will not happen to you Right. If you look at it this way, you killed off all your pawns, the rooks and the bishops are next.
@barbintheboonies: “If I was from another country would I get a pass from you?”
Well, one does generally expect a person to be fluent in his or her native tongue, certainly more so than in a language acquired later in life. Or do you find this another example of how real Americans are suffering from oppression?
@KM:
Don’t take this personally, but if the most frequent answer to “What has Hillary done for people like us?” is to point out that Trump hasn’t done anything either, then it’s no wonder that some people have fallen for his spiel. Presumably, there are things that Hillary has supported in the past, or has proposed to do if elected, that would help those demographics. If Democrats and liberals don’t talk about those things, then it’s no wonder that some people support a citified, orange Mr. Haney.
@Pch101: Oooh “mom jokes” aren’t funny? Explain that to the religious bigot who keeps signing your screen name to the crap he posts.
@wr: I know many people from the south I can hardly understand but they are very intelligent people .
@barbintheboonies:
So, you went to her endlessly-cited website, and read her dozens of pages of proposals, and…
1. Didn’t understand them?
2. Couldn’t find the site?
3. Your browser crashed?
4. You felt that she didn’t provide enough details about actual legislative mechanisms for achieving her goals?
5. …?
If your problem is that Hillary didn’t show up on your doorstep to explain her proposals to you in person, with illustrations, I’m not terribly sympathetic.
@barbintheboonies:
How much research did you do? Did you go to Charity Watch or Charity Navigator and look up what that had to say about the Clinton Foundation, to see if it was praiseworthy or otherwise? Do you genuinely not care how much good it does, if that good does not specifically take the form of “building houses for the homeless”?
@DrDaveT:
It was Hillary’s job to sell herself. Her campaign did a bad job of that. It didn’t articulate a strong vision, and spent too much time talking about Trump, and not enough talking about what her Presidency would do to improve things, outside of vague platitudes.. Compare that with Trump, who spent a good part of every debate talking, often off-topic, about jobs, bad trade deals, defeating ISIS, etc, and whose campaign ran a lot of ads reinforcing that message. Sure, it was mostly (or totally) nonsense, but as a campaign strategy it’s better than what Hillary did: a very few, very brief mentions of her plans, followed by “Go to my web site for details.”