Tuesday’s Forum

OTB relies on its readers to support it. Please consider helping by becoming a monthly contributor through Patreon or making a one-time contribution via PayPal. Thanks for your consideration.

FILED UNDER: Open Forum
Steven L. Taylor
About Steven L. Taylor
Steven L. Taylor is a Professor Emeritus of Political Science and former College of Arts and Sciences Dean. His main areas of expertise include parties, elections, and the institutional design of democracies. His most recent book is the co-authored A Different Democracy: American Government in a 31-Country Perspective. He earned his Ph.D. from the University of Texas and his BA from the University of California, Irvine. He has been blogging since 2003 (originally at the now defunct Poliblog). Follow Steven on Twitter and/or BlueSky.

Comments

  1. Bill Jempty says:

    This isn’t a rare happening except for the person going to prison for it.

    The owner of two Boston-area pizza shops has been sentenced to more than eight years in prison for subjecting employees to years of violence and intimidation, according to prosecutors.

    Stavros Papantoniadis was sentenced in federal court to 102 months in prison on Friday, along with one year of supervised release and a $35,000 fine, according to a news release from the US Attorney’s Office for the District of Massachusetts.

    My sister-in-law Leonette aka Nanette came to the US in December 1999 to work as a nurse. After and passing the exam to get her license, she went to work at a Miami Beach nursing home in Feb 2000.

    Around a year later, Nanette’s employer (A company out of Illinois) bounced her payroll check. She wasn’t the only employee of the nursing home it happened to. Nanette complained. Some supervisor of hers, a woman is all I remember, made threats against Nanette’s immigration status. My SIL already had a green card.

    Nanette is tough. She didn’t back off and I gave the supervisor an earful over the telephone. The employer gave Nanette a second bad check but eventually she was paid what she was due. I sometimes wonder if threats and intimidation by the nursing home did succeed with other employees. Nanette probably knows but I have never asked her.

    There are employers who will use fear to intimidate legal immigrants also.

    5
  2. Not the IT Dept. says:

    Tom Nichols tweeted an excellent opinion that I want James to read and think about:

    “Look, if you want to argue that newspapers should never endorse, that’s fine (if wrong). But to discover that principle a week before an election, against a man who has threatened to destroy the free press, is just cowardice and anticipatory obedience.”

    Source: https://x.com/RadioFreeTom/status/1851069620846780720

    14
  3. charontwo says:

    Striking picture at top – almost no female faces in this crowd

    Gift

    5
  4. Rick DeMent says:

    My only regret is that I don’t have a NYT or WP subscription to cancel. I tend to just read AP, UPI and Reuters as all of them are free and there is no opinion columnists. Opinion I can get anywhere even up my own arse 🙂

    6
  5. Scott says:

    Oh, what a tangle web..

    This Trump supporter was labeled a noncitizen and kicked off Texas’ voter rolls

    Mary Howard-Elley fervently believes illegal immigration in the U.S. is a critical problem that only former President Donald Trump can solve. She says the continuation of his border wall and promised mass deportations will make the country safer.

    She agrees with Trump’s unfounded claims that Democrats are opening the borders to allow noncitizens to vote, fearing that it could ultimately cost him the election.

    Howard-Elley didn’t pay much attention when Texas Gov. Greg Abbott helped fuel that narrative by announcing that the state had removed thousands of supposed noncitizens from its rolls, claiming some had a history of voting.

    Then the U.S. citizen learned she was among them.

    The retired Transportation Security Administration agent was confused by how the county could come to that conclusion. And she seethed at the idea that anyone would question the citizenship of a former federal employee with the “whitest name you could have.”

    11
  6. Min says:

    After what happened with the ‘comedian’, ppl would think Trump’s defenders would wait a little before making this kind of comments.

    “Girdusky to Hasan: I hope your beeper doesn’t go off”

    But, nope.

    I still can’t believe this happened.

    https://x.com/Acyn/status/1851085909435039789

    ps: I hope the Twitter link works.

    5
  7. Jax says:

    I got to see/hear thundersnow last night. It was awesome. Probably not as awesome as Jim Cantore doing cartwheels and shit, but it was still pretty cool.

    11
  8. Jen says:

    Quickly revisiting this comment from @Kathy yesterday, to clarify something I wrote. Earlier in the thread I said:

    I’m guessing the most freaking out they are getting is from Republican politicians in Florida (hey, Rick Scott, how’s your morning going?)

    Kathy responded “Counting Florida now strikes me as hubris,” which I would agree with, 100%. I was NOT counting Florida, that is a deeply implausible scenario. I do, however, think that Rick Scott had an unpleasant day, and I am fine with that.

    I will note that most sentient politicians I’ve ever worked with, even in very safe districts, carry with them a suspicion that if all forces align, they could lose.

    When I worked in politics, we called this the “Any Give Sunday” feeling, based on the book by Pat Toomay, which was later made into a movie. Basically, even a crap football team can have a very, very good day and win, and even the best team in the league can have a bad day and lose.

    When something totally arbitrary–like a bad comedian making a really dumb@ss “joke” about a key voting block–gets major media coverage, that’s the sort of thing that makes many even safe politicians sweat.

    8
  9. Gromitt Gunn says:

    Regardless of what happens on Election Day, that MSG rally coverage is making me very glad that I’m relocating out of Texas in six weeks. Being governed by folks like that is exhausting.

    10
  10. Kylopod says:

    @Jen:

    I do, however, think that Rick Scott had an unpleasant day, and I am fine with that.

    There’s a big PR population in Florida, in large part courtesy of Hurricane Maria, which itself calls attention to one particularly disgraceful moment in Trump’s presidency (which is saying something). Now, I don’t know what their voting tendencies have been up to now (few voter surveys break down Latinos into more specific categories), and I assume they’re majority-D, but he probably calculated it isn’t smart to piss them off this close to an election, especially when factoring in its impact on the broader Latino community.

    Dems had high hopes of flipping the state after the hurricane, only to be disappointed due to the rightward shift of Cubans and Venezuelans in Miami-Dade. But that doesn’t mean all Republicans have reached the point that they think they can take the community for granted.

    4
  11. CSK says:

    USA Today has declined to endorse.

    1
  12. Kingdaddy says:

    @Min: As I was saying yesterday, it’s not about messaging. It’s about license.

    1
  13. Kathy says:

    @Jen:

    Most people can recover from a bad day.

    The big exception is elected officials who have a bad election day.

    But speaking of sports, yesterday’s Giants vs Steelers game ended in a most unusual way. Namely with three turnovers.

    First Russell Wilson tried to run the ball, and had it stripped off his hands before he hit the ground. it was a great play by the Giants’ defender, I admit. he punched the ball from behind Wilson as the latter was going down.

    A few plays later, TJ Watt stripped the ball from the Giants’ QB (his name escapes me), and recovered it. The Steelers then proceeded to advance the ball a bit and eat up some of the clock, but not enough to end the game. they punted after the 2 minute warning.

    And then a few plays alter they intercepted the ball and ended the game.

    I find it amazing there were three turnovers in the last minutes of the game, and no one managed to score off even one.

    1
  14. Not the IT Dept. says:

    Asshole’s gotta asshole, I guess. One guy found out that maybe the zeitgeist is changing:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14013511/Wild-moment-CNN-panelist-thrown-set-outrageous-threat-live-air-Trump-rally-debate.html

    It’s about time, frankly.

    5
  15. Franklin says:

    @Scott:

    Mary Howard-Elley … And she seethed at the idea that anyone would question the citizenship of a former federal employee with the “whitest name you could have.”

    Bwaahahaha. But you hyphenated, dearie, which indicates somebody didn’t properly submit to their man. Don’t for a second think that the voter suppressors are only striking suspected immigrants from the rolls.

    3
  16. Kathy says:

    El Felon is claiming he’s the opposite of a nazi. Traditionally this would make him a communist.

    Not an improvement, Weirdo.

    5
  17. Pete S says:

    @Jax:

    It is cool to see/hear. But living near Lake Erie I know the next thing I am likely to hear is my snowblower. Have never witnessed it when all we got was flurry.

    1
  18. Neil Hudelson says:

    Remember all the way back to a week ago when Republican commentors were insisting all the fascist remarks were out of line?

    They seem to have all disappeared. Wonder what could’ve happened to zap their ability to deny fascism? Ah, well, we’ll probably never know.

    4
  19. Kathy says:

    On other things, I’m catching up with podcasts and setting audiobooks to the side for a bit.

    In one of Tim Harford’s Cautionary Tales, he delves into the history of Walter Reed’s inquiry on how yellow fever is transmitted (that Walter Reed; he was an Army doctor).

    Setting the transmission theories aside*, all experiments were carried out with human volunteers. I had read about ti on Discover magazine years ago, so I was familiar with the experiments. What struck me both times is that yellow fever has a high death rate (today at around 15%), and even those who don’t die have a hellish time. A “mild” case has been described as excruciating pain all over, feeling like your fingers will snap off, and feeling like your eyes will pop out of your head. More serious cases involve bleeding from the eyes. Fatal cases involve internal bleeding, especially in the stomach, and multiple organ failure. People who recover from hard cases tend to die at higher rates a few years later from the extensive damage they suffered.

    Given all this, why did they have to experiment on human volunteers rather than on animals?

    I’ll be looking that up later. It might be no other animals get sick from yellow fever (unlikely but not impossible), or not in a comparable way (say they remain asymptomatic throughout). Still, some of the mosquitoes involved in the experiments were clearly ill after drinking blood from infected patients. So it’s likely other animals might also contract the disease.

    *For the record, it’s transmitted entirely through mosquitoes. But not that easily. To be infected, a mosquito must bite a person within three days of symptom onset, then the virus incubates in the bug for 12 days, and then they can spread it (and I need to check this independently as well).

  20. Kylopod says:

    @Kathy:

    El Felon is claiming he’s the opposite of a nazi. Traditionally this would make him a communist.

    You gotta know your opposites.

    The opposite of blue is pink.

    The opposite of a cat is a dog.

    The opposite of a Stone is a Beatle.

    The opposite of a Prince is MJ.

    The opposite of a Big Mac is a Big IBM.

    5
  21. charontwo says:

    Some thoughts on media independence:

    Bulwark

    Journalism in an Autocratic Age

    How to build and protect media institutions robust enough to stand against fascism.

    Cancel Culture
    I am not here to tell anyone what to do with their money. If you want to cancel your subscription to the Washington Post, that’s between you and your God.

    I’ll just tell you that I didn’t cancel my subscription. And I’d like to explain why.

    The problem isn’t the Washington Post. It’s the owner of the Post.

    And realistically, there is no way to send Jeff Bezos a message about your disagreement with his choices for the simple fact that the WaPo is not a revenue stream for him.

    Lots more at the link

    3
  22. Jax says:

    @Pete S: Pretty rare in Wyoming! We got a couple inches of heavy, wet snow. It’ll melt fast if the sun comes out. Might settle the dust a bit, it’s been really dry here.

    1
  23. DK says:

    @scarylawyerguy: “Maybe if reporters hadn’t ignored a massive economic recovery & greatest legislative record since LBJ while treating Biden like he had early onset dementia we’d have a little more sympathy when 200,000 people bail on a paper like the Washington Post.”

    @wfrolik: “Or maybe if these papers had any other means of letting readers voice their displeasure.

    But fact is they’ve been snidely dismissing all liberal complaints about their coverage for *decades* as proof of their ‘balance'”

    7
  24. DK says:

    Under Republican State Laws, US Book Bans Nearly Tripled Last School Year (Common Dreams)

    “PEN America found that 10,000 titles were censored over the last year as new laws went into effect in states including Iowa and Florida.”

    …the number of books that were pulled from shelves or “challenged” by right-wing groups and Republican lawmakers skyrocketed…

    PEN America found that the number of banned books tripled from the 2022-23 school year, when it had been 3,362.

    New laws passed in Iowa and Florida were major drivers of censorship in libraries and public schools in the last school year, with 8,000 instances of book bans in the two states.

    Under Iowa’s S.F. 496, which took effect in July 2023, all materials containing descriptions or depictions of a “sex act” were determined to not be “age-appropriate” for K-12 students. The state banned 14 books from 2021-23, but the strict censorship law—which also bans classroom discussions of LGBTQ+ issues and gender identity—”led to thousands of book bans during the 2023-2024 school year,” said PEN.

    Florida’s H.B. 1069 also focuses heavily on books that contain “sexual conduct,” and its statutory review process requires that books be pulled from shelves while the titles are being evaluated after being challenged.

    Anti-American af. I wish the right’s new book ban orgy was getting more attention. This kind of government attack is dreadful, glad my state is not doing this (with books).

    3
  25. just nutha says:

    How to build and protect media institutions robust enough to stand against fascism.

    It might be that having media institutions robust enough will require building new ones.

    (Full disclosure: I don’t subscribe to national-level newspapers.)

    3
  26. CSK says:

    Barbara Bush, G. W.’s daughter, has endorsed Kamala Harris.

    10
  27. Michael J Reynolds says:

    We were gone for 27 days – NYC, Queen Mary 2, London, Nice, London again, Nashville (K had a thing) and back home. There’s nothing like being away to make your domicile feel like home. Vegas, baby.

    I finished a book, and once again thought, ‘I’ll go straight into the next one!’ And once again my right brain, ‘no, you won’t.’

    So I think maybe I’ll find something to cook.

    4
  28. Monala says:

    @charontwo: this part of the article is really good:

    Cantor Fitzgerald chairman and CEO Howard Lutnick came out and spoke of how his firm was decimated on September 11 when a plane struck just below their offices in the World Trade Center, how they’d given lots of money to the families, and then he finally provided a clear answer to that nine-year-old question: When, exactly, was America great?

    The Gilded Age.

    The crowd was a bit miffed when Lutnick extolled the virtues of the “turn-of-the-century” economy, and they didn’t rouse much when he explained he was referring to 1900. They perked up a bit when he explained this meant “no income tax,” though it was more of a smattering of cheers.

    “All we had was tariffs!” he explained, probably expecting more of a roar, “and we had so much money that we had the greatest businessmen of America get together to try to figure out how to spend it!” Near-silence.
    “That’s who we were then.”

    And there it was. We should return to the days when all the money flowed into a handful of pockets, when the Carnegies and Rockefellers got to make all the rules, and the way that billionaires like Lutnick will seek to do that is by getting Trump in there to abolish the income tax — as if any of them pay their fair share as it is. This was Reaganomics on anarcho-capitalist steroids, and the fairly frosty reception it got in the arena was a reminder of how much more effective Trump’s economic populism has been for Republicans, even if he ended up signing the same old tax-cut-for-rich-people once elected. 

    It was enough to make you wonder whether, for all the valid concern in Kamala Harris’s turn towards rhetoric about Trump’s threat to democracy, casting him as the plutocrat’s plutocrat — as Barack Obama did to Mitt Romney in 2012 — might better serve her as she tries to get over the line.

    3
  29. CSK says:

    Trump claims he didn’t hear Hinchcliffe’s joke about Puerto Rico being a floating garbage island. I guess that’s supposed to make it okay.

    1
  30. Jen says:

    @CSK: Oh, that’s sad. There’s a strong association between hearing loss and dementia.

    Yet another sign Trump just is not fit to hold office.

    10
  31. CSK says:

    @Jen:

    I suppose that in days of yore he would have said that Hinchcliffe was someone who brought the covfefe.

  32. Mister Bluster says:

    Teri Garr 79
    RIP

    7
  33. Monala says:

    Speaking of the Gilded Age (which Trump has also touted as the ideal era of American history), and the economic inequality and crises it engendered:

    Elon Musk has offered a sobering preview of Donald Trump’s economic plan for America if he is re-elected, revealing that a period of intentional “temporary hardship” is on the horizon for American households. Rather than cautioning against it, Musk described this hardship as necessary and inevitable, supporting Trump’s blueprint for restructuring the economy by slashing government programs. Musk’s remarks, shared in a Telephone Town Hall organized by his America PAC, indicate that he and Trump see economic pain to average Americans as a necessary cost of their policy goals.

    Link (Meidas Touch)

    3
  34. CSK says:

    @Mister Bluster:

    So sorry to learn this. She was great.

    1
  35. becca says:

    @Monala: I don’t guess Elmo is planning on future elections if trump wins. The hardest hit will be red states if they start slashing, say, disability payments. WV, MS and KY, especially rural areas, would be devastated. The gop would never recover. I’m sure they know this.
    Be lots of parents on SS moving in with their kids

    4
  36. CSK says:

    The Atlantic has endorsed Harris, calling Trump “one of the most personally malignant and politically dangerous candidates in American history.”

    3
  37. Bill Jempty says:

    Terri Garr has passed away at age 79. She was a good actress. RIP

  38. Kazzy says:

    @Scott: “ “Who is allowing people to do this to United States citizens? I understand we have a problem with immigration, but come on now,” Howard-Elley said in an interview.”

    Really? She doesn’t know who is allowing it…?

    2
  39. Mikey says:

    @Monala: Musk is basically Lord Farquaad from Shrek: “Some of you may die, but that’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make.”

    4
  40. CSK says:

    David DePape, who attacked Nancy Pelosi’s husband, has been sentenced to life in prison w/o parole on state charges. He was previously slapped with 30 years on federal charges.

    3
  41. Kathy says:

    Another satirical sculpture went up in DC, this one in honor of the Orange Weirdo Felon.

    The plaque under the tiki torch reads in part: “While many have called them white supremacists and neo-Nazis, President Trump’s (sic) voice rang out above the rest to remind all that they were ‘treated absolutely unfairly’. This monument stands as an everlasting reminder of that bold proclamation.”

    1
  42. JohnSF says:

    @Kathy:

    “… the opposite of a nazi. Traditionally this would make him a communist.”

    Well, or perhaps a democratic liberal.
    I think, not, Sir.
    Go stand with the mad populist mob.

    1
  43. Kathy says:

    @JohnSF:

    By the lights of his base, that might be even worse.

    @CSK:

    I wouldn’t go to bat for the guy, but he’s clearly mentally ill and should get treatment. I don’t suppose that’s very likely in prison.

    3
  44. JohnSF says:

    @Kathy:
    Come to think of it, a lot of British traditionalist conservatives came to be pretty definitely oppositional to the Nazis.
    *waves Churchillianly*

    2
  45. CSK says:

    Trump today claimed that he’s done more for Puerto Rico than any other president, via NBC.

    2
  46. Kathy says:

    @CSK:

    In what passes for his mind, he’s always the best, the greatest, the first, or has done the most/more than anybody. It’s never true.

    When it is true, like the first person who holds his office to be impeached twice, charged criminally for times, adjudicated as a rapist, and convicted of a crime, he says nothing.

    BTW, The Guardian’s live blog quotes him as saying “I think no president(sic) said more for Puerto Rico than I have,”. Does this not sound like a Freudian slip? Acknowledgment of (false) lip service?

    How about an apology, Weirdo?

    Yeah, I know. he takes no responsibility for anything he’s actually done.

    4
  47. reid says:

    @CSK: I think I could write a 100-line computer program, in BASIC no less, that accurately simulates Trump-level AI.

  48. Matt says:

    @Jax: Yeah it’s really an entertaining thing to watch for the most part. Big lightning strikes with snow on everything at night is a recipe for temporary blindness which really sucks if you’re driving. Up until that happened though I was quite enthralled with the colors.

    2
  49. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @CSK: If he’d said “done more to Puerto Rico,” I might agree with him, but for? No way, Jose… Ferrer (and yes, I had to look that up).

  50. Gustopher says:

    @CSK:

    USA Today has declined to endorse.

    This just strikes me as funny.

    They have always struggled to be as bland as possible. I’m just disappointed that they didn’t endorse both Harris and Trump with a “either would be great” style endorsement.

  51. Gustopher says:

    @charontwo: I think there are more brown faces in that crowd than women’s faces.

  52. Monala says:

    From the blog Family Inequality, taking The NY Times to task for using statistics in a misleading way:

    The New York Times Upshot writes of White men without college degrees, “They Used to Be Ahead in the American Economy. Now They’ve Fallen Behind.” And to show these men falling behind, they made a figure that for some reason they only compared them to women with college degrees. This is basically the story of rising returns to education, turned into a story of race/gender grievance.

    The writer goes on to share charts that compare the full data, and it turns out that white men without a college degree have higher incomes than any other racial or ethnic group of any gender without degrees. White men with a college degree have higher incomes than people with degrees of any other racial or ethnic group of any gender except Asian men.

    4
  53. Monala says:

    From the Bulwark, What More Do You People Want from Kamala Harris? (Part Deux):

    Seriously: This has been the most error-free presidential campaign in memory and yet Harris hasn’t played it safe. She combined aggressive strategy with disciplined execution. In terms of campaigns as they exist in the actual, real world? This is as good as it gets. …

    Which is why, if Harris loses, it will be incorrect to say that it was somehow her fault. That if only she had done [this thing I like] or said [this other thing that’s important to me], then she would have beaten Trump.

    Because not only has Harris run the best possible campaign, but Trump has run an entirely mask-off campaign. He has told America who he is and what he wants. …

    Believe me: If Trump wins, it isn’t going to be because Kamala Harris gave a bad answer to a question on The View.

    It will be because some large percentage of the American public looked at these two candidates and decided that they wanted Trump.

    Attempts to blame Harris or find an alternate reason for why voters didn’t consciously choose an authoritarian strongman will be an exercise in reality avoidance. It will be an attempt to avoid grappling with who, and what, our country is.

    5
  54. MarkedMan says:

    Watching game 4 of the Workd Series and being reminded again that Yankees fans are the most classless in all of baseball

    1
  55. becca says:

    The Harris speech at the Ellipse was powerful. Very moving and hopeful. Definitely could motivate more people to show up and vote. She is impressive as all get out. Fingers crossed, we might just make it after all (hat toss)!

    2
  56. gVOR10 says:

    @Monala: Murc’s Law will require that it be reported as Harris’ fault.

    1
  57. Kathy says:

    New airline refund rules are now in effect in the US

    TL;DR: “…airlines are now required to provide automatic refunds if a flight is canceled or has a significant schedule change, and if passengers don’t want to accept the significantly changed flight, be rebooked on an alternative flight, or accept alternative compensation.”

  58. Kylopod says:

    @Monala:

    Which is why, if Harris loses, it will be incorrect to say that it was somehow her fault.

    While I tend to agree, this view is unlikely to take hold if she loses. Post-election narratives are almost always based on retroactively judging the winner to have run a great campaign, and the loser to have run a crap one.

    And the Bulwark writers have their biases—they really like the way she’s been courting disillusioned Republicans, particularly from the old Bush/neocon crowd. There is an alternate view I’ve run across that she’s making a mistake in pursuing this strategy.

    1
  59. Jax says:

    @Matt: It’s been snowing all day now. Starting to get a little worried. We’re at 6-8 inches after the melt-off this morning. My cows are going to read me the Riot Act if they don’t get a hay ration in the morning. 😉

    3
  60. DK says:

    @gVOR10:

    Murc’s Law will require that it be reported as Harris’ fault.

    Of course. Because the one thing we must never do is hold American adults responsible for their own decisions.

    I used to vote Republican, attracted to ideas about personal responsibility and individual agency. Not that I was indifferent to systemic problems like racism, sexism, etc. (I was a liberal Republican), but leftists’ “it’s society’s fault” bit drove me crazy and still does.

    Thanks to Trump I don’t have to look back, since conservatives have completely given up on personal responsibility to embrace nonstop grievance. We are all infants now. Left, right, and center — it’s always somebody else’s fault.

    What a way for a country to conduct itself.

    8
  61. charontwo says:

    @Gustopher:

    There is some early voting results data from AZ posted at LGM that looks to me like, if accurate, Harris wins AZ pretty convincingly. Considering all the polls showing Trump ahead in AZ, I am feeling pretty good about this election.

    If that holds up, I see the GOP future as a permanent minority party. There are two groups embedded in the GOP like ticks that will never be dislodged, and these will not be compatible with election victories.

    1- Toxic males – dudebros from 4chan, gamergate etc. led by people like JD Vance, Peter Thiel, Elon Musk etc.

    2- Patriarchal sexist religious types – Mike Johnson, MTG, Lance Wallnau, Ted Cruz, Samuel Alito – an alliance of NAR Dominionists and Integralist Catholics.

    1
  62. Franklin says:

    @MarkedMan: Oh my, just saw the replay. Ripping the ball out of Betts’ glove is clearly the only thing that ugly thumb of a person has ever accomplished in life.

  63. Gavin says:

    @Monala:

    Don’t forget Harris rolled out an actual legitimate should-have-been-an-October-surprise policy near-revolution regarding Medicare last week… crickets from the news. Not even legitimate analysis and coverage of the improvements.
    Policy Change
    No joke: You have to go to Scientific American to get the most long-form coverage of this. Probably because the new policy is so good they couldn’t BothSidez it, and decided to attempt to ignore it.

    It’s almost like the national news is both conservative and wants Trump to win!

    1
  64. restless says:

    @Gavin:

    Ah, so that’s why Trump proposed a tax credit for home healthcare work.

    Not sure if he’s proposing a refundable credit, but even that would probably be a small part of the cost.

  65. Jay L Gischer says:

    @Monala: You know, this is an anecdote, and definitely not an endorsement for Trump..

    When I went to my 50th high school reunion, the working class men were the worst off group. Busted up physically or, well, dead. The college men, and the women seemed to be doing better, except for the “he had MS” sort of thing. One of the working class men, (I think he probably had an LD which gave him big issues with schoolwork) had done pretty well. We didn’t talk about what kind of money they had, though.

    But what struck me is what it had cost them – their bodies. Maybe their relationships/families in some cases. One of them was a no-show and his cousin said he’d disappeared after his divorce.

    They are maybe contributing to their poor state by making poor choices, for sure. The world is very different from what it was when we graduated, though. Some of us have made the passage and navigated the changes successfully, and don’t really want to go back.

    If you didn’t though, man, it isn’t good for you.

    I can’t emphasize enough that I am on board with “we won’t go back!”. I just know some people I want to bring with us.