Free Speech Warriors Went Down to Riyadh
They were looking for a show to steal. They were fine with contracts that bind. And they were willing to make a deal
Cancel culture conversations (or, really, questions of what kinds of speech can get a person into what kinds of trouble) fall into a number of categories. These include broader political categories, like BLM or the Charlie Kirk assassination, and whether poking at raw nerves on social media can get a person fired. There are also questions of whether or not academic institutions (whether we are talking about administrators, faculty, or students) have behaved in censorious fashions around similar topics.
The whole discussion has gotten even more fraught as we have moved from the question of random “justice” of this type being meted out by private individuals to the involvement of state actors, whether it be the state government getting TAMU officials fired for talking about gender in a way that some politicians disapprove of, or whether the is the FCC Chair making mob-boss like pronouncements about talk show hosts he wants punished.
For the record, I think that the question of whether individuals, or even groups, have sought to unjustly fire or “cancel” people with whom they have a disagreement over speech and state actors working to fire those the government itself disfavors are two very different categories.
This post is focused on the non-governmental type of “cancellation” in the context of stand-up comedy.
My basic views on this topic are not especially different than what I wrote over three years ago, Some Thoughts on “Cancel Culture”: “I will admit to struggling with the concept of “cancel culture” insofar as I don’t think that there is a movement afoot that rises to the level of a “culture.” Further, I have my doubts that “cancellation” is all that it is cracked up to be.” I go through a number of examples in the piece.
One specific aspect of this ongoing debate in the United States is whether cancel culture makes it unfairly difficult for comedians to be as funny as they want to be. It is a topic I find interesting and one I think about frequently because of its direct relevance to the First Amendment as a general matter, and also how it has a specific application to discussions of “wokeness” and whether or not there is some unreasonable censoriousness in American society, especially from “the left.”
While I am not an expert-level comedy nerd, I am at least comedy-nerd adjacent. I enjoy stand-up, improv, and sketch comedy, and a significant percentage of my heavy podcast consumption over the years has been in the comedy genre. One of the things that I notice in listening to a range of comedians, especially on podcasts, which do not have to adhere to broadcast standards, is that the range of words and ideas that comedians have to make jokes is pretty wide open.
Here are the things that seem to me to be the “off-limits” words: racial, homophobic, antisemitic, and misogynistic slurs. Likewise, there is a derogatory word that starts with “r” that we all used to use all the time, especially on the playground, to describe persons with mental disabilities, which is now frowned upon. There is enough social opprobrium in the air to forestall these words from being used, including words that were common in comedy when I was a child and were often heard on broadcast television.
To my mind, most of the pressure around those words and kinds of jokes is a sign of market pressure and social change as to what is acceptable, rather than being about free speech restrictions. I am highly doubtful that comedy is suffering from the lack of access to slurs.
There are lines a society has to draw, which is why I have a hard time with the notion of free speech absolutism (which is a way I used to describe myself) insofar as we all know there is a line, even if we might argue about where the line ought to be drawn. (And, again, government acting and society acting are not the same thing.)
Nonetheless, there are those who are quite incensed over the whole thing. The return of comedy was one of Musk’s promises when he bought Twitter.
Ironically, within days of that pronouncement, he banned comedian Kathy Griffin from the site, as per NBC News: Comedian Kathy Griffin suspended from Twitter after mocking CEO Elon Musk.
Funny how that works.
Of course, comedy was never illegal on Twitter, and the kinds of speech prohibition that Musk removed were mostly of the racist and hate-speech variety. As Brooking noted at the time, Why is Elon Musk’s Twitter takeover increasing hate speech?
Twitter saw a nearly 500% increase in use of the N-word in the 12-hour window immediately following the shift of ownership to Musk. Within the following week, tweets including the word “Jew” had increased fivefold since before the ownership transfer. Tweets with the most engagement were overly antisemitic. Likewise, there has also been an uptick in misogynistic and transphobic language. This surge in hateful language has been accredited to various trolling campaigns on sites like 4chan and the pro-Trump forum “The Donald.”
Who could have seen that coming?
See also this study, “X under Musk’s leadership: Substantial hate and no reduction in inauthentic activity.”
When it comes to comedy in particular, and leaving aside some of the more complicated examples of “cancellation” in academia or elsewhere, I have never been all that sympathetic to the notion that “wokeness” or “cancel culture” has been stopping comedians from being funny.
The most prominent example of comedic cancellation off the top of my head was Louis C.K., who temporarily had a hard time getting work based on his behavior, not his speech. I know that Dave Chappelle has gotten heat for his joke about trans persons (but not in a way that has stopped him from making a lot of money). The only comedian whom I can think of who was truly canceled is Bill Cosby, but, you know, that was for allegations concerning drugging women and raping them, not so much for the edgy jokes about going to the dentist or giving the kid’s chocolate cake for breakfast.
To my point above, so many of the comedy-linked gripes are linked to the inability to use certain words without getting criticized, usually racist or homophobic slurs. Or, things like this via NBC News: The ‘R-word,’ embraced by Joe Rogan and Elon Musk, inches back into the mainstream.
In a recent episode of his highly influential podcast, Joe Rogan declared what he sees as the latest triumph in the cultural battle over language: the return of the “R-word.”
“Every time I see people that disagree with any that’s happening, any gigantic world events, it’s one of these retarded shows where they’re screaming,” he said April 10 on an episode of “The Joe Rogan Experience,” before he interrupted himself to go on a quick rant about the word.
“The word ‘retarded’ is back, and it’s one of the great cultural victories that I think is spurred on, probably, by podcasts,” he added.
[…]
Tesla CEO Elon Musk now frequently uses the word on X to disparage everyone from a Danish astronaut to Ben Stiller.
Well, then, comedy and the republic itself are saved!
One of the things that many stand-ups seem to think is that they are modern-day philosophers speaking truth to power, and therefore, they don’t think anyone should tell them what to say. But, to be honest, apart from some slurs, it is unclear to me what it is they can’t say (and legally, they can slur away, which is a reminder of the distinction between First Amendment Rights and how the society itself reacts to certain words). The fact that society sometimes pushes back on certain topics is not, in my mind, cancel culture.
All of this brings us to the Riyadh Comedy Festival that was held about a month ago. A large number of American comedians were paid very large sums of money to perform for the elite of Saudi Arabia. Among the dozens of American comics to appear were Bill Burr and Dave Chappelle, both of whom fancy themselves free speech warriors.
Via Variety: Dave Chappelle Jokes ‘It’s Easier to Talk’ in Saudi Arabia ‘Than It Is in America’ While Performing at Riyadh Comedy Festival.
While headlining Saudi Arabia’s Riyadh Comedy Festival on Saturday (via The New York Times), comedy giant Dave Chappelle deliberated over the do’s and don’ts of free speech in America, deeming it “easier to talk” in the Middle Eastern nation than back home in the States.
“Right now in America, they say that if you talk about Charlie Kirk, you’ll get canceled,” Chappelle said. “I don’t know if that’s true, but I’m gonna find out.”
“It’s easier to talk here than it is in America,” he added.
I mean, I guess as long as you make no jokes about MBS having a journalist murdered and then bonesawed so his corpse could be smuggled out of the embassy, then sure, it is a free speech haven.
Or, you know, the list of topics that comedians had to agree not to talk about. As per the AV Club, Comedian Atsuko Okatsuka posts contract after turning down Riyadh Comedy Festival.
It really takes some gall for Chappelle to act like he is the freest of speech zones on a stage in Riyadh, performing for the elite, knowing that he signed off on that contract.
Chappelle is not alone in being a known Truth Teller who took the check and is defending himself. Via Variety: Bill Burr Defends Riyadh Comedy Festival Gig Amid Backlash: ‘Definitely Top Three Experiences I’ve Had’.
“It was great to experience that part of the world and to be a part of the first comedy festival over there in Saudi Arabia,” Burr said on the Sept. 29 episode of his “Monday Morning Podcast.” “The royals loved the show. Everyone was happy. The people that were doing the festival were thrilled.”
Speaking truth to power, I see.
During the episode, Burr talks about arriving in Riyadh with apprehension due to the years of negative portrayals in Western media. “You think everybody’s going to be screaming ‘Death to America’ and they’re going to have like fucking machetes and want to chop my head off,” Burr said. “Because this is what I’ve been fed about that part of the world.”
Seems an odd thing to agree to do, if you expected some chance your head would be machetted! I guess the check was really good!
But, fret not, they have chain restaurants in Riyadh.
His biggest surprise, came from the restaurants available and from the audience itself, which he described as young, diverse and eager to engage with stand-up comedy.
“Is that a Starbucks next to a Pizza Hut next to a Burger King next to a McDonald’s? They got a fucking Chili’s over here!”
All of this is like the whole Liv Golf bit: I recognize that the checks are huge, but there has to be some recognition of who is signing those checks.
Human Rights Watch: Saudi Arabia: Riyadh Comedy Festival Whitewashes Abuses.
The Saudi government is using the Riyadh Comedy Festival 2025 from September 26 to October 9 to deflect attention from its brutal repression of free speech and other pervasive human rights violations, Human Rights Watch said today. The festival dates include the seventh anniversary of the Saudi state-sponsored murder of the journalist Jamal Khashoggi and takes place just months after Saudi authorities executed a journalist apparently for his public speech.
Some additional examples of what a real free speech zone the Kingdom is.
Human Rights Watch urged the comedians in particular to publicly call for the release of the Saudi human rights defender Waleed Abu al-Khair, who is serving a 15-year prison sentence as a result of his human rights activism. The comedians should also seek the release of Manahel al-Otaibi, a female fitness instructor and women’s rights activist sentenced to 11 years in prison – recently reduced to 5 years – for promoting women’s rights online. They should also raise the lack of accountability in Khashoggi’s murder at the Saudi consulate in Istanbul on October 2, 2018.
In terms of how much they respect a comedian’s ability to comedy (not to mention a specific comedian’s ethics):
Tim Dillon was scheduled to perform but said he was fired after he joked on his podcast about Saudi Arabia’s poor human rights record.
[…]
“I am doing this because they are paying me a large sum of money,” Dillon said on his August 30 podcast. “They are paying me enough money to look the other way.” Dillon said that the Saudi festival was paying him US$375,000 for the one show on October 8, but that other performers were offered as much as $1.6 million. “They bought comedy,” Dillon added. “Do I have issues with the policies towards freedom of speech? Of course I do, but I believe in my own financial wellbeing.”
On September 20, Dillon announced that his performance had been canceled after Saudi authorities were allegedly “unhappy” about his comedic remarks on the treatment of migrant workers and other human rights issues. “I addressed it in a funny way and they fired me,” he said.
It is as if these comedians don’t really understand what they are dealing with here.
So, yes, slinging racist, misogynistic, homophobic, and anti-semitic texts can lead to you losing your job in the United States, and I am more than okay with that, even if the slingers in question assert that they were just joking.
Look, these folks (here’s the list) have every legal right to take Saudi money and be court jesters for the royal family, but I really do not want to hear any of them say one word about cancel culture or how they are free speech warriors who speak truth to power via their comedy.
We have some real free speech challenges in the United States, but those are starting to burble up from federal and state governments that want to limit science and academic speech. That is a different quantum of problem than whether comedians get push back for making trans jokes or whether or not they get dirty looks for using insulting terms for people with mental challenges.
We were offered money and first class flights and accommodations to appear at a literary festival in Dubai. Twice. Turned it down twice. TBH we debate whether to do appearances in Florida or Texas, but those appearances directly benefit book stores and school librarians, not murderous tyrants or asshole governors.
I am particularly disappointed in Bill Burr, who has done very funny, long-term work for good on race relations. Chapelle’s been full of shit for quite a while now, and less and less funny having drunk his own Kool-Aid.
These people are whores. Once you’ve whored for a tyrant you are in a weak position to criticize the morals, courage, decency or intelligence of anyone. I can’t watch Burr now, and certainly would not pay for a show, and it’s a pity.
Nothing new here. As American pop culture turns stale, it always plays better in Vegas, cruise ships, and third world dictatorships.
I do not recall ever finding any standup act with the word “retard” in it funny. I have dozens of monologues memorized. Some are really kind of filthy. None have that word. I cannot imagine enjoying a monologue with that word in it.
Because it isn’t funny.
I am not going to enjoy any comedy routine that demeans my family members and other trans people based on misconceptions and lies.
Because it isn’t funny.
Anybody who demands that I find their act funny needs to get out of the business. Immediately. That’s not how funny works.
If a comedians take is ‘hey that rich guy will pay me a lot of money to stand on a stage and make fun of trans people and people with Down’s Syndrome”, my response is, “stop being such a tool”
My daughter has an interesting take on Dave Chapelle. She says, “He was always an asshole, but he was so funny we didn’t notice for a long time.”
I think I recognized two names on that list.
I haven’t paid much attention to standup comedy since George Carlin.
I’m guessing that Riyadh would not have invited Lenny Bruce.
You are always free to tell jokes about other people when they are not there. I learned that in junior high and I hope I learned not to do it by high school.
I view comedy as a personal choice. There should be no censorship except the discipline of the market place. Personally, I don’t care for edgy or blue comedy. So what? I don’t have to go nor watch.
As for the Riyahd Comedy Festival, I wondered who got to attend. There seems to be very little info on that. I suspect, besides ex-pats and other foreigners, it was primarily the elite of decadent Saudi society.
@Gregory Lawrence Brown: There are a number of big names on that list (and I would say I, personally, have at least heard of well over a dozen of them).
Kevin Hart is a very big name on the list (and someone who really should have enough money from commercials alone to say no to this). Hannibal Buress is noteworthy, as he got a lot of cred for calling out Cosby.
Pete Davidson was kind of an odd one, given that his father died as a member of the NYFD on 9/11.
Another weird one: Jessica Kirson, because she is lesbian and SA isn’t known for its tolerant views on homosexuality.
Under the guise of expanding the Saudi economy beyond oil the Saudis are hosting this comedy festival, F1 races, the World Cup, a golf league, etc. while they build resort developments, shopping malls, tall buildings, and whatever. I can’t help but suspect these are circuses for the Saudi masses yearning to live free (as on someone else’s nickel) while the .1% stash money abroad anticipating dry wells in the near future.
Too true, and a distinction conservatives decline to make. “Ah got mah First Amendment right to say whatever I want.” And unless I’m the government, I’ve got my right to say what you said is stupid and destructive and should be blocked on some platform. We used to have a commenter, Pinky, still here under a new handle for all I know. Big on, ‘You must respect my conservative opinions, because I said them.’
Matt Taibbi said liberals and conservatives both want to block speech they disapprove of, but conservatives are better because they do it openly, with the law. One of the dumbest things I’ve ever read. But in their minds a he-did-it-first justification.
The court jester has always worked for the king. Yes, sometimes he pokes a tiny hole in the pomposity of the crown, but this works for the king by letting a little pressure off. Bob Hope, Johnny Carson, and Jay Leno certainly were pro establishment. Carlin and Bruce were exceptions. The focus on sex by many contemporary comedians actually reinforce sexual stereotypes and further anti feminist bias.
I think your distinction between fellow workers pushing to get someone fired vs getting fired by state actors as was done with Kirk is key. When you work together in a company/corporation getting good work out of your people is always important. You do that with a number of incentives, like pay and benefits that are obvious. You can also offer incentives that are important to many people but are less obvious like autonomy or a path to further success. You also need to avoid negative incentives like pay being late, poor working conditions, lazy managers, etc. Another key is not needlessly pissing off fellow workers. Unless there is a really good reason, making attacks on other groups of workers just isn’t a good idea. My experience is very much that the people who do that kind of stuff are the extreme,y self-righteous types or the ones who are on the spectrum or adjacent (like an engineer) who dont have good people skills.
One of the things I had to learn early on managing people is that sometimes being right isn’t the most important thing in the world.
Steve
@Steven L. Taylor:..big names…
Thank you for the reply. Maybe I should get out more.
(I have wracked my brain trying to remember any live, stand up comic shows I have seen and all I can come up with is Frank Zappa but I’m not sure if I can count that.)
What do these performers all have in common?
Frank Sinatra, Queen, Dolly Parton, Elton John, Rod Stewart, Liza Minelli, The Beach Boys, Tina Turner, Cher, Ray Charles, Chicago, Liberace, Helen Reddy, Linda Ronstadt, Curtis Mayfield, Olivia Newton-John.
They all took big paychecks to play Sun City, which was widely seen as a way to legitimize and profit from apartheid at a time when the UN was asking performers to boycott the country.
On the other hand, Little Steven organized a boycott, and Bruce Springsteen, Miles Davis, Peter Gabriel, Lou Reed, Run-DMC and many others joined, giving up potentially huge paydays.
Here’s an example from Bellingham, WA that has nothing to do with comedy.
There was a brewpub tavern in town that was quite well liked. They showed old movies on their screens, instead of sports. Old kung-fu moves among other things. Really fun. I went there once while visiting.
The place was going great until a somewhat senior employee went across the street to another establishment and groped a waitress. His employers (although it’s unclear, he might have been part owner, as a brewmaster) stood by him and did not fire him.
So the entire city of Bellingham stopped going to that establishment. This being the only way they had to protect waitresses from groping.
I do not regret this. Bellinghamites (Bellinghamers?) seem quite happy with the outcome although many note that they liked the place before.
One could call this cancel culture, and all I can say is I’ve seen some bad things from cancel culture, and this ain’t one of them.
@wr:
I just learned that there’s Saudi money involved with something of mine that’s being developed. Of course it’s not the same as actually playing dancing monkey for MBS. Right? Right?
Dave Chappelle, Bill Burr at the Riyad Comedy Festival etc. — these guys build their brand around being at the forefront of “blunt.”
America suffers from an insular life experience. These two comedians find comedy (and careers) in excruciatingly harsh critique of our own society’s quirks and hypocrisies. Reading the Festval contract, don’t you know, these guys thought hard about their set material.
And taking swipes at the U.S. by making comparisons of our two cultures, plays well in Saudi Arabia, ever sensitve over their violent oppression of internal dissent, women, and the dismemberment of Khashoggi.
So this is a win-win: the enrichment of American “hayseed” comedians and positive PR for the ever mindful, image conscious, absolute rulers of gilded caged Saudi Arabia, which seeks further influence upon Western institutions. “Hey guys, we aren’t so different. Ha, ha, ha.”
I”m going to be watching intently to see if Chappelle and Burr do indeed take on Charlie Kirk.
And I’m ready to “cancel” the entire debate over “cancel culture” when it is clear that both sides do it, but as usual, liberals got hung with the entire issue — this while our entire society now circles the drain of rightwing cancellation.
Gov. Abbott Admitted to Purging ‘Leftist’ Professors. People Are Calling It the ‘Definition of Fascism.’
But that’s the trick — who gets to say what is ‘leftist” and without any mention of “rightist bombast.”
Live, I’ve seen Jay Leno pre-Tonight Show, Tom Segura, Jim Jeffries, Marc Maron, Tig Notaro, Chris D’Elia (pre-canceling), Shazia Mirza and Louis C.K., (also pre-canceling). Also James Acaster but he was just trying out new material, not really doing a set. And various people whose names I don’t recall at the Comedy Store or The Improv in LA.
I saw Jim Jeffries in Edinburgh and there was a loud and seemingly violent disruption in the audience, which was quickly handled. I then explained to my British colleagues that like any good American, I had instantly located the nearest exit so I’d know where to go when the shooting started. And I had begun considering whether I should run standing up or crawl.
@wr:
Interesting considering that the thing Little Steven is likely most famous, or at least most recognizable, for is playing a mobster.
I’ve watched many reaction videos—including The Sopranos. The way I hear it, all those reactors in their 20s and early 30s are too sensitive for a show with such un-PC humor. Yet, the jokes that land hardest for the reactors often are the ones that I keep hearing will cause a spasm of righteous anger.
—
As far as comedians go, I also note that Louis C.K. has a few quite famous bits centered on the f and hard-r words. But he didn’t get ‘canceled’ until some of his private actions—an open secret among comics—came to public light.
All these people who complain about censoring individual words seem to suffer a lack of understanding of the actual complaint. But that ignorance seems to be at the core of the RW zeitgeist.
On the other hand, hypocritical or not, likability matters. If you expect to get a laugh merely because you use, say, the r word, then you are little more than a seventh grade class clown. That describes someone like Musk.
There is a reason that DOGE is/was mostly staffed by immature frat boys, beyond the Silicon Valley proclivity for hiring young white boys. It’s because Musk makes the biggest impression on juvenile fuckheads.
@Michael Reynolds:
To my view, there is a difference. If you just learned that, then you had no opportunity to make a choice at the time you did whatever work.
What action you take now? Well, that’s a knotty issue.
Maybe you should withdraw it as cash and burn the bundles in the middle of Central Park. Tape it and put it on YouTube.
As a somewhat more serious hypothetical, let’s say you decide to take whatever portion you earned directly from Saudi money and decided to fund support for Saudi dissidents. Do you also need to calculate the proceeds from interest accumulated from that money?
To be clear, my point is that maybe a lot of this discussion is difficult for reasons that often go unstated in these conversations. I mean, to the extent that any of us have decent lives, we owe some part of it to economic exploitation and violence.
Of analgesics for nausea, we have choice aplenty.
@Michael Reynolds: Trouble is, find some money that’s clean.