Boxing Day Forum

FILED UNDER: Open Forum
Steven L. Taylor
About Steven L. Taylor
Steven L. Taylor is a retired Professor of Political Science and former College of Arts and Sciences Dean. His main areas of expertise include parties, elections, and the institutional design of democracies. His most recent book is the co-authored A Different Democracy: American Government in a 31-Country Perspective. He earned his Ph.D. from the University of Texas and his BA from the University of California, Irvine. He has been blogging since 2003 (originally at the now defunct Poliblog). Follow Steven on Twitter

Comments

  1. Flat Earth Luddite says:

    Happy Boxing Day, everyone.

    1
  2. DK says:

    President and Dr. Biden’s Christmas announcement here, and also on YouTube

    It was nice having class and dignity back in the White House, for a bit. Thank you for that, Jill and Uncle Joe.

    16
  3. Jen says:

    This makes me incredibly sad.

    20 Big Cats Die From Bird Flu at a Washington Sanctuary
    Twenty big cats, including a half-Bengal tiger and four cougars, died between late November and mid-December at a sanctuary in Washington State after becoming infected with bird flu, according to the facility’s director.

    “We’ve never had anything like it; they usually die basically of old age,” said Mark Mathews, the founder and director of the Wild Felid Advocacy Center in Shelton, Wash. “Not something like this, it’s a pretty wicked virus.”

    Three other cats had recovered from the virus, and one remained in critical condition on Tuesday, he said.

    The sanctuary said in a statement on Friday that the facility was under quarantine and would be closed until further notice while the habitats were sanitized.

    3
  4. Kathy says:

    @Jen:

    Sad and concerning.

    It’s as though this pathogen is telling us it’s coming. I’ve some N95s on hand, which are very uncomfortable to wear, and I’m getting some more KF94s just in case. I’m even thinking about obtaining some Tamiflu as well.

    5
  5. Kathy says:

    So, the farthest galaxies we can see are also the oldest. Since they are billions of light years away, we know what they were like billions of years ago.

    Well and good. but can our Milky Way galaxy be seen in those farthest galaxies? If it is, would any sentients in there say ours is one of the oldest galaxies?

    It’s not that simple. For the Milky Way to be visible in these oldest galaxies, it must have been in existence long enough for our light to travel all the way there. If our galaxy is young enough, then its light hasn’t made it that far and any people in these very far away galaxies go about their day blissfully unaware of our existence.

    Sometimes I think of things like this in the morning shower.

    7
  6. Joe says:

    I was in charge of turkey dinner yesterday. Because there were only 8 of us, I got a turkey breast instead of a bird. That meant making the stuffing separately to put in the oven toward the end of the bake, not my normal habit The butcher didn’t include a baking bag, but my wife pulled a bag out of our random paper/plastics drawer and I unfolded it, prepped it and put the breast in it to bake for 2.5 hours at 350°. When I checked the bird at about 2 hours, I learned that whatever the bag was, it was not capable of withstanding 350° and had fused to the skin of the bird. While I figured I could take the bag and the skin off and still have the breast, it did kill the opportunity of drippings for gravy. While I was contemplating that, I put the two casseroles of stuffing in the oven, forgetting to put any broth in them for the first 20 minutes. After adding the broth, I set about to make gravy from scratch with an obscene amount of chicken boullion and a little too much flour, offset by chicken stock, butter and heavy cream and garlic. It was high grade kindergarten paste, but it actually worked, as did the turkey and stuffing. All of this ended up proving my Thanksgiving/Christmas dictum: we do turkey dinners for the family because they are really hard to fuck up.

    Merry Christmas to all!

    7
  7. EddieInCA says:

    Seeing things like this, I realize the kids are going to be okay.

    There is something so cool to me about kids playing songs their grandparents rocked out to when they were their age.

    For those who don’t click on the link, it’s the “School of Rock” kids playing and singing “California Dreaming”. If watching that video doesn’t give you a case of the “feels”, you’re dead inside.

    Also, London Calling

    You’re welcome.

    9
  8. Kathy says:

    @Joe:

    A couple of years ago I saw a video on how to deep fry a turkey. Why someone would want to is beyond me, but apparently some do. You need a huge tub, a lot of oil, and a dedicated burner. And you do this outside in the cold.

    And it’s dangerous. If you let the turkey drop in too fast, hot oil will splash. It won’t only burn anyone it splashes on, but also catch fire from the burner at the bottom. If you put in too much oil, it can overflow as it boils and also catch fire.

    I’ve had some minor kitchen mishaps here and there, but never anything serious. Not even a single grease fire*. I shudder to think of cooking methods which could be fatal.

    *A grease fire is put out by carefully putting a lid on the pan or pot on fire, to starve it of oxygen. The absolute worst thing you can do is pour water on it. It will flash to steam, which will make for a big fireball as it carries away the burning oil. The Mythbusters did an ep on that.

  9. Rob1 says:

    @Kathy:

    RE: N95 masks. I had my confidence in these masks challenged recently.

    Grabbed one while pouring sand, to filter out the fine dust released. When done with my task, and upon removing the mask I noticed heavy dust accumulations both around my nostrils and on the inside surface of the mask in high concentrations corresponding to said nostrils, and mouth. Those dust particles are significantly larger than viruses and respiratory droplets.

    I’m sure N95 masks provide some barrier to projected respiratory moisture, and I will continue to use them, but with the caution that they are not failsafe. I’m committed to wearing them on airplanes during peak virus seasons.

    Going back to using heavy duty respirator for my construction tasks.

  10. Rob1 says:

    @EddieInCA:

    RE: California Dreamin’ Yep, very cool. The kids are alright (well, some are).

    Some of their own Gen music is pretty great too, like neo-psych bands All Them Witches and Wooden Shjips, and the R&B Black Pumas. Their technical proficiency is crazy good, as is their songwriting.

    Personally, I am partial to Jose Feliciano’s rendering of California Dreamin’.

    https://youtu.be/GGVM2-ePMXQ?si=k8n_-9Ij2styP6oS

    1
  11. Kathy says:

    Fair warning, I may flood the open forum with inane posts out of boredom. I’ll try to keep them interesting.

    Why? Because today is a Dreadful Hell Week Day. We have four proposals we have to finish today. One is done. One I’m not involved in. In the two I’m involved with, I’ve finished 95% of all I had to do. Now I wait for the managers to check that work and make corrections. This will take them most of the day (one is a very BIG proposal). meantime I’ve little to do, except get started on the one due next Friday, Jan. 3rd.

    There was a Christmas day plane crash in Kazakhstan. An Azerbaijani regional jet diverted due to weather at Grozny, its intended destination. I chose not to link to any stories, as most are rather uninformative and speculative. There was obviously something wrong with the plane, as it crashed on clear weather a few kilometers from the airport.

    The not so terrible news is that about 30 passengers survived, some with very serious injuries.

    1
  12. Ha Nguyen says:

    @Kathy:

    Per reddit, it appears that the plane flew through a flock of birds shortly before experiencing problems. It seems that there’s a lot of video footage of the plane having problems.

  13. Jack says:

    A reality check for the new year.

    Whether you believe in global warming or not. Whether you subscribe to the notion that its man made or a natural cycle or not………………you best get it through your head that China and India will dwarf all attempts by other countries to reduce emissions. IEA fantasies about China and nuclear notwithstanding, CO2 is going up. Better to adapt, as Bjorn Lomborg advocates, rather than deindustrialize the west and destroy their economies. All while China achieves global dominance……….and laughs their asses off at western stupidity.

    …………..
    A study published this month by the International Energy Agency (IEA) revealed that global demand for coal, and global coal production, broke records in 2024, largely as a result of both supply and demand coming from communist China.

    China – the world’s worst polluter on several metrics, including carbon emissions – “consumes 30% more coal than the rest of the world put together,” according to the IEA study. Its government approved hundreds of new coal power plants in the past two years, suggesting that it will grow its outsized share of the world’s fossil fuel consumption and production of greenhouse gases despite being a signatory to the Paris Climate Agreement.

    Chinese state media arms openly boast of how much coal the country has amassed to meet its skyrocketing demand for electricity and, in winter, heat. Beijing does so by insisting that the alleged “climate crisis” requires the Western world to dramatically diminish its use of fossil fuels and absolving itself of any responsibility by demanding countries adopt “common but differentiated responsibilities” on pollution.

    The IEA is a global intergovernmental organization, initially part of the structure of the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD). On December 18, it published its annual study of coal consumption and production around the world, titled Coal 2024.

    “Global coal use has rebounded strongly after plummeting at the height of the pandemic. It is poised to rise to 8.77 billion tonnes in 2024, a record,” the IEA documented. “Coal prices today remain 50% higher than the average seen between 2017 and 2019. Coal production reached an all-time high in 2024, though growth is expected to flatten through 2027 as structural changes take hold.”

    The study identified China and India as the most prominent nations dramatically increasing coal consumption.

    “At the regional level, coal demand in China is expected to grow by 1% in 2024 to reach 4.9 Bt, another record,” the report noted. “India is poised to see demand growth of over 5% to 1.3 Bt, a level that only China has reached previously.”

    In contrast, “in the European Union and the United States, coal demand continues to fall, but at a significantly slower pace. It is on track to decline by 12% and 5% respectively this year, compared with 23% and 17% in 2023.”

    China’s National Bureau of Statistics corroborated the IEA’s estimate of record-high coal production on December 16, publishing statistics showing that China mined 427.98 million metric tons in November, a record average of 14.27 million tons.

    The study found a dramatic spike in both demand for coal and coal prices in the past two years that it attributed to the return to normal following the end of global civil rights restrictions imposed to allegedly contain the spread of the Wuhan coronavirus. China imposed some of the most barbaric civil rights limitations in the world within its borders, including brutal city-wide lockdowns forcing tens of millions of people into essentially a form of house arrest and reports of officials welding doors shut to trap civilians inside. The restrictions limited demand for energy as people could not go to work or conduct their daily business freely.

    Despite the record high use and production of coal that the IEA recorded, its report was bizarrely optimistic, expecting coal demand not to increase significantly through at least 2027 and prematurely crediting China with replacing much of its coal use with “renewable energy.”

    “In 2024, China continued to diversify its power sector, advance the construction of nuclear plants and accelerate its huge expansion of solar PV and wind capacity,” the IEA claimed. “This should help limit increases in coal consumption through 2027 … though it also highlights a number of key uncertainties in its analysis.”

    The report did not mention that China has approved hundreds of new coal plants in the past two years, whose expected shelf life indicates no interest on Beijing’s part in rapidly shutting down coal operations. Reuters, reporting on China’s coal output statistics, noted this month that, in “November, the state-owned asset regulator urged state enterprises to increase output in anticipation of winter heating demand, leading analysts to expect production increases in the final two months of the year.”

    China regularly pressures coal producers to increase production to meet demand in the winter and, via state propaganda outlets, boasts of coal production as key to “energy self-sufficiency.”

    “China’s energy self-sufficiency rate has remained at about 80 percent in 2024, thanks to enhanced national energy security guarantee capacity and green low-carbon development,” the state-run Global Times reported on December 15. “National energy security guarantee capacity,” the article makes clear, involved a tremendous push to increase the country’s fossil fuel production.

    “Data from the National Energy Administration (NEA) expected national coal production to reach about 4.76 billion tons for the year 2024,” the Times noted. “Crude oil production is expected to rebound for the sixth consecutive year, with natural gas production expected to increase by more than 10 billion cubic meters for eight consecutive years.”

    2
  14. Kathy says:

    @Rob1:

    It could be either the filter or the fit, and both are bad news. I assume it was a genuine 3M and not a knock off.

    @Ha Nguyen:

    I’ve heard about additional video in the comments in aviation blogs, but have seen no links, nor the additional video, not even at the Aviation Herald.

    There’s also a lot of speculation on the plane being shot down. That would be very odd, as it was nowhere near a war zone. Also reports of GPS jamming and spoofing, which seems to account for the vague trajectories shown on FlightRadar24

  15. gVOR10 says:

    @Kathy: There are now published pictures that show what looks like shrapnel damage.

    1
  16. becca says:

    @Kathy: BBC is reporting there is credible speculation that Russia shot it down assuming it was a Ukrainian drone. Some outlets are “confirming “ that, but I think it’s still speculation.

  17. Paul L. says:

    Happy Christmas for the servants.
    I was told Trump should have passed away of a heart attack by now.

    1
  18. Barry says:

    @Kathy: “And you do this outside in the cold.”

    And well away from your house/garage/trees. I’ve seen some impressive videos.

  19. Michael Reynolds says:

    I keep getting emails inviting me to a ‘women’s march.’ Proving that Democrats still don’t get it. ‘Women’ are not a political unit. Women who believe in abortion rights are a political unit. But a great many men also believe in abortion rights. Only 11% of men want abortion outlawed across the board. 58% are OK with some restrictions, and 28% want it legal in any circumstance. Women, despite being 51% of the population were not able to protect reproductive rights.

    Democrats jumped to the conclusion that Hispanics were for loose immigration and opposed deporting illegals. 26% of Hispanics favor a border wall. 33% want to see more deportations. There are people who want more enforcement, and people who do not, but Hispanic voters are not a monolith.

    56% of Blacks surveyed in 2023 express confidence in their local police. 74% of Whites do. That’s a big gap, but it is, again, nothing like a monolithic position.

    It is time to end these outdated and useless divisions by sex and race and ethnicity. They don’t work. They don’t work as predictors of policy views and they don’t work at attracting voters. People have beliefs. People, not female or male, Hispanic or Anglo, Black or White people, but people. By insisting on the identity politics approach you lose the ability to reach pro-choice men, or non-Hispanics who oppose immigration crackdowns, or Whites who have issues with policing.

    The term of art for a while at least was ‘intersectionality,’ the notion that various minorities, Black, Brown, Asian, Gay, Trans, etc… would work together. This is a laughable idea on its face. That’s not how things work. See: every European country that cannot assemble multi-party coalitions.

    Identity politics was a bad idea from the start. It has failed utterly at politics. It’s almost 2025 and we are still working from a 1960’s playbook. The battle is over belief, not identity.

    9
  20. Michael Reynolds says:

    @Paul L.:

    I was told Trump should have passed away of a heart attack by now.

    Oh? By whom?

    10
  21. MarkedMan says:

    @Rob1: Because of the products my company makes (equipment to test filters and filter media), during COVID I had experience with many, many different masks. A properly fitted N95 wouldn’t have leaked dust particles. I had a 3M one fit tested on me and the way it’s done is to spray a nauseating aerosol at the mask while you are turning, nodding and shaking you head, walking in place etc. If it leaks you smell it.

    FWIW, you cannot get a seal with a beard and I never saw any real N95 mask with ear straps. All of them had two side to side straps, one above the ears and one below.

    2
  22. Gustopher says:

    @DK: is it really a Presidential Christmas Message if it isn’t a rambling mess of grievances and obsessions?

    5
  23. Kathy says:

    @gVOR10:
    @becca:

    I’ll await findings. Other damage can be misinterpreted as shrapnel.

    It would be odd for Russia to shoot it down, as it was heading out of their territory into Kazakhstan. It’s possible, and the Vlad government id strongly discouraging speculation, but still not likely.

    1
  24. CSK says:

    @Michael Reynolds:

    My exact question.

  25. Gustopher says:

    @Jen: Bird Flu is amazingly deadly for our feline friends. But, presumably less so for cows, as so many herds are infected and I’m not hearing of herds losing 50% over a few weeks. (Is there an immunization program for cattle that I am unaware of?)

    Makes me wonder if I’m more like a cat or a cow.

    1
  26. Mikey says:

    @Michael Reynolds:

    Identity politics was a bad idea from the start. It has failed utterly at politics.

    Dunno man…it seems to have served the Republicans very well.

    It’s still identity politics if the identity at issue is “white Christian male,” right?

    9
  27. Michael Reynolds says:

    @Mikey:
    ‘Their’ identity group is part – not all, but a big part – of a majority of Americans. ‘Our’ identities are a dozen different minorities, often fragmented internally and with strains between groups. Ideas unite, identity divides. Addition yields a bigger number than division.

    6
  28. Jay L Gischer says:

    @Michael Reynolds: What you are describing is what a lesbian woman described a group of hers had started doing: Organizing by purpose rather than by identity.

    I consider this a very positive thing.

    5
  29. Stormy Dragon says:

    @Michael Reynolds:

    You’ve literally turned into a #notallmen reply guy.

    Get a hobby already.

    4
  30. Paul L. says:

    @Michael Reynolds:
    Reid Knocks Trump on Unhealthy Fast Food Diet
    Trump Suddenly CANCELS APPEARANCES as HEALTH COLLAPSES

    Donald Trump has cancelled even more events today raising further speculation
    about the status of his health this is something that we have covered extensively here at the MeidasTouch Network and with every passing day or even it seems every passing hour we are getting more evidence that there is something seriously wrong lurking beneath the surface

  31. Mister Bluster says:

    Don’t worry folks as long as Chump is healthy enough to follow his own dictum that “you can grab them by the pussy” lackeys like Paul L. have little to fear.

    4
  32. dazedandconfused says:

    @Kathy: Deep fried turkey is the best turkey I have ever had, actually. Instantly seals all the moisture in, guaranteed not to be dried out meat (the most common condition of bad turkey) and takes a heck of a lot less time. This has made turkey, for me, something that is not just dragged out for holidays.

    It appears that plane was damaged by a Russian air-to-air missile, looks like a proximity blast (not a direct hit) so it flew quite some time before crashing. Tail is peppered in shrapnel holes. It’s route took it pretty close to areas which the RU is defending against Ukrainian drones and missiles so it appear to have been an accidental strike.

    2
  33. Slugger says:

    @Paul L.: Should means ought to but not necessarily will. I am within a few months of Trump’s age. I just used an online calculator for life expectancy, and it came up with 93 for me. I don’t know Don’s real height and weight to get his numbers. I’m not entirely thrilled that I am bound for another 14 years. From 85 to 93 may not be that much fun. A 90 year old Trump will be demanding US sovereignty over Antarctica leading to a war with Argentina.

    2
  34. Scott F. says:

    @Mister Bluster:
    Some people’s motivations are completely inexplicable to me. What could possibly spur someone on the day after Christmas to purposefully join a blog where they are typically treated as a gnat to be swatted away, simply to post a snarky provocation? And then when they got the tiniest bite on that bait, THEY COME BACK to post an 8 year video from a dead ex-Senator and a 2 month old video from another blog.

    Then I suppose you and I have answered my question. It must so very really lonely wherever they are holed up that any attention is good. Luckily for me, I can now explain my motivation for feeding the troll as a desire to be charitable in the holiday season.

    3
  35. Gustopher says:

    @Paul L.: I’d lay odds that Trump will not live long enough to see the United States buy Greenland and annex Canada.

    Fun Fact: Canada would not be remotely the same without the American Revolution. So many Loyalists ended up moving to Canada that it completely reshaped the future country.

    2
  36. DK says:

    @Michael Reynolds: Except Republicans run on identity politics and win.

    A “women’s march” is not more identity insistent that the antiwoke angry white male identity politics Trump successfully deployed. And it’s not organized by the Democratic Party, so the women’s March doesn’t prove or disprove anything about “Democrats.” Chill out.

    5
  37. Kathy says:

    @dazedandconfused:

    It seems there was a drone attack somewhere on Chechnya recently. I did not know this. given this info, there may be some nervous antiaircraft missile operators down there.

    As to Turkey, why not deep fry pieces separately in a safer manner in the kitchen?

  38. DK says:

    @Michael Reynolds:

    ‘Their’ identity group is part – not all, but a big part – of a majority of Americans. ‘Our’ identities are a dozen different minorities, often fragmented internally and with strains between groups.

    But you referenced the “women’s march.” Women actually are a majority of America. Trump’s aggrieved white men are not.

    And in what alternate world are Republicans not fragmented and lacking for strains between groups? Lol wut

    Trump saved himself with identitarian anti-trans attacks and with fragmented Blacks For Trump and Latinos For Trump appeal. So Trump became the first president in a generation to win the popular vote precisely because he played group division identity politics, from white men on down. Per the 2024 election, identity politics are the opposite of a failure. It appears Trump and Republicans have adopted Democratic strategies, with great success.

    Kamala Harris ran on policies and ideas, not divide-and-conquer identity politics. Trump ran on identitarian division. And voters we’re slightly more amenable to Trump’s identitarian fearmongering than to Kamala’s housing plan and paens to democracy.

    So. It’s a nice theory, but half-baked and outdated.

    5
  39. Rob1 says:

    @Michael Reynolds:

    @Paul L.:

    I was told Trump should have passed away of a heart attack by now.

    Oh? By whom

    Rumor has it as leaked from a conversation with Melania.

    5
  40. Beth says:

    @Michael Reynolds:

    You seemly misunderstand (and misrepresent) what intersectionality is and does. You also start from the deeply flawed premise that 1. Identity is absolutely totally meaningless, and 2. You are completely without identity (because it is absolutely meaningless).

    I am continually amazed that you don’t think Trump mobilizes identity politics. He absolutely does and does it effectively because he wildly lies. Democrats can’t engage in the sort of lying Republicans do because their constituent identities groups won’t accept it. There’s a good argument to be made about strategy, tactics, and how we talk to each other, but we shouldn’t accept lies and we have to deal with how people are, not what we want them to be.

    2
  41. DK says:

    @Gustopher:

    I’d lay odds that Trump will not live long enough to see the United States buy Greenland and annex Canada.

    I was told Trump was the antiwar candidate. What happened?

    Denmark bolstering Greenland defense after Trump ownership comments

    3
  42. DK says:

    @Beth: A clear-eyed assessment of the 2024 election through the lens of so-called identity politics would conclude that idea campaigns are over, and that identity politics are successful, at least at the top of the ticket. Because it was not the Democratic standard bearer — who lost — that ran on fragmenting America by appeals to identity.

    Time for folks to update their priors.

    Results downballot were more muddled. Which is why drawing broad conclusions from this election isn’t wise.

    5
  43. Gustopher says:

    @Michael Reynolds:

    ‘Their’ identity group is part – not all, but a big part – of a majority of Americans. ‘Our’ identities are a dozen different minorities, often fragmented internally and with strains between groups. Ideas unite, identity divides. Addition yields a bigger number than division.

    Their “identity” is a bare plurality in their strongest years.

    All politics is identity politics. Policies don’t matter, and ideas barely matter.

    Republicans are, however, more active in creating, maintaining, and activating identity in their voters across a variety of demographics. Starting from the Patriot Myth that is taught in schools, through to an entire media propaganda network — they have a vision of America, that they are constantly promoting, and it’s an outlandish enough vision that they can realistically say that it is constantly under attack. (It’s an awful, wildly ahistorical vision of America).

    An Appalachian coal farmer who grew up in and around the birthplace of the labor movement in America has little naturally in common with the descendants of slave holders, or venture capitalists, or a small businessman. The Republicans have forged that identity, based on WW2 propaganda and other myths. They have a story.

    The Democrats don’t have a story. Not one that is propagated, anyway. Most of the time it is just attacking the foundations of that Republican Patriot Myth, because George Washington had slaves and Ben Franklin was a white supremacist.

    One thing that I will credit Biden for is promoting Juneteenth. I don’t think he did enough there, but it could be the cornerstone of a better American Story — about a nation that is always struggling to achieve the ideals of equality and opportunity that a couple of filthy slaveholders espoused while drunk. It could use some work on that last part.

    But demographic checkbox politics doesn’t work without that story.

    3
  44. Kathy says:

    @DK:

    Mad Vlad showed that wars of conquest in the 21st. century are good and easy to win.

    1
  45. Mikey says:

    @DK:

    Kamala Harris ran on policies and ideas, not divide-and-conquer identity politics. Trump ran on identitarian division.

    Something that came out in polling after the election indicated a lot of people believed Harris spent too much time on “woke” messaging, identity politics, etc.

    Thing is, as you point out, she did not. She hardly mentioned any of those things. But people BELIEVED she had, in no small part because the Trump campaign absolutely obliterated the swing states with ads linking her to identity issues, most significantly issues of transgender rights.

    I live in Virginia, a non-swing state, so we were spared this. But I traveled to Michigan about three weeks before the election, and man, let me tell you the number of Trump ads and the level of bullshit they contained were both beyond anything I would have imagined, had I not actually seen them.

    Trump ran 110% on identity politics and that’s why he won. Apparently, most of America isn’t ready for ideas yet.

    11
  46. Beth says:

    @DK:
    @Gustopher:

    I’m in basic agreement with both of you. Democrats and Harris tried soooo hard to run a Daddy Reynold’s identity free campaign because of an absolute fear of offending one white person.

    Democrats, writ large, avoided touching the anti-trans ads and some even joined in. I think the effect of this wasn’t to win over anyone and quite implicitly told (confirmed?) all other groups that Democrats won’t fight for them.

    DK, what do you think the effect on the Black community if Colin Allred got on TV and instead of joining the GOP to attack trans people said something to the effect:

    “I don’t understand the Trans people. I don’t understand how these kids know they are trans. But I know that these GOP lies are just lies to make you angry and confused. And guess what? We know they lie about Black people all the time. We know they lie about Latino people and women. We’re smart enough to tell them to shove their lies. I’m going to protect these trans kids cause it’s the right thing to do and I’m gonna do the same for your kids.”

    That’s a much better story than there’s billions of these trannys and they are trying to destroy the world.

    3
  47. Gustopher says:

    @Beth:

    Democrats can’t engage in the sort of lying Republicans do because their constituent identities groups won’t accept it.

    We just need better lies.

    I think you can create a version of American History (TM) with heroes and martyrs like Charles Sumner, John Brown, Lincoln, Sojourner Truth, Susan B. Anthony, Harriet Tubman, both Roosevelts, JFK (conveniently killed before he did too much awful shit), LBJ (inconveniently lived to also do awful shit), MLK, Malcolm X, the Freedom Riders, Joe Hill, Marsha Johnson, Pete Seeger (great at HUAC, not so great on Stalin)… and a few from other demographics (if we could find two very different Latinos — maybe one Mexican and one mostly-indigenous Honduran-American — and maybe a Chinese American from the old west (I’m betting Kung Fu was not based on a real story)).

    Maybe gloss over the whole Native American Genocide. Not even a “and then the right wing surfaced again, like a zombie that can never die because America was built on top of an old Indian graveyard.”

    Tie it together as a story of people fighting to expand freedom opposed by conservatives of their eras, put a bow on it, gently exclude Pete Seeger’s love of Stalin, really sell Lincoln’s more racist past and his growth as a person… I think we can have a better pseudo-history, one that people can identify with, feel proud of, and see themselves continuing (and that is the biggest lie of all)

    I had a better education than most people, but it never really focused on the people as heroes, except for the Patriots. It went from Mythological George Washington to “now read a dull passage from Fredrick Douglas that’s probably about something, but you’re in 8th grade, and you clearly don’t have the focus to read 19th century language*, especially when the cute boy is talking to the cute girl and you’re trying to figure out what all those feelings you’re having mean.”

    We never got Washington’s dull notes on how slaves need to be swiftly and sternly corrected with a whip, or a fun myth about how John Brown just could not tell a lie.

    We did get Robert E. Lee was a Noble Man who was respected by everyone.

    ——
    *: never did develop an attention span that could withstand Fredrick Douglass.

    2
  48. dazedandconfused says:

    @Kathy: That would be a lot more work and time. Some kind of battering would be needed for the exposed meat as well, I suppose. That would be like fried chicken, and the result would be as greasy and fattening. Another benefit it is in not having to futz around with basting and such, and this removes the bird from the kitchen. Freeing up the oven and all other space for all those other dishes that go into a feast.

    Once you’ve got the set-up and a space to do it, you are done in 20-30 minutes. The set-up must include a safe way to dunk and retrieve the bird, btw. I use an 8ft pipe, bird dangles from the middle. Nobody gets within 4 feet of the pot that way.
    The result is a full bird on the table looking identical to one from an oven for the holidays, but considerably more moist and tender on the inside than any roasted bird I’ve ever had. I would have nothing to do with a turkey sandwich before but now I can get a week of them and don’t mind a bit.

  49. Kathy says:

    @dazedandconfused:

    If you like it and are comfortable with the risks, then it’s your call.

    But, out of curiosity, what fo you do with however many liters of oil are left over?

    I don’t do deep frying of any kind, so I never have any leftover oil.

  50. just nutha says:

    @Beth: If MR is paying attention to the comments he’s gotten, on his next “what’s wrong with DP political actions”* rant, he’ll tack over to Republicans can do identity politics but Democrats can’t. He can make up his own reasons. I’m not willing to write the whole rant for him.

    (And get off his sidewalk! 😉 )

    *”And why aren’t they listening to me, anyway?”

    1
  51. just nutha says:

    @Beth: I’d love to be wrong, but I think that if he got on TV and said that, Wikipedia would be listing him as “the former Congressional representative of the xx district in Texas” in 2026. But yeah, Democrats need better messages. I just don’t know if there are any that people who will vote for Trump will listen to. This seems cultural and systemic to me.

    2
  52. Stormy Dragon says:

    @DK:

    It will be ironic if NATO ends up meeting Trump’s defense spending target only because of Canada and Denmark fortifying against an attack by the US…

    2
  53. gVOR10 says:

    @Rob1:

    Rumor has it (that Trump is due for a heart attack) as leaked from a conversation with Melania.

    I seriously doubt Melania has done anything in years that would speed up Trump’s heart.

    1
  54. Kathy says:

    @just nutha:

    I just can’t wrap my head around moral panics. they almost always focus on things that are either largely harmless, or outright fabrications. For the former, not only trans and gay people, but things like dungeons & dragons. The latter, just about every conspiracy theory, but also stuff like the infamous satanic panic in the 80s.

    And yet, when faced with a real danger, like the COVID pandemic, it’s hard to get people to care, much less take action. They see actual people hospitalized, in the ICU, and dead, and they still won’t wear a mask or take a vaccine.

    4
  55. dazedandconfused says:

    @Kathy: I’m able to freeze it so I do. This is only possible because I have access to a large freezer though. Freezing is not needed if you strain it and can keep it in a fairly cool place. I limit it to four usages before replacing. It begins to look a bit dirty at that point.

  56. CSK says:

    @gVOR10:

    Probably not since Barron was conceived.

  57. Kathy says:

    @dazedandconfused:

    Does it freeze or only solidify?

    Solid fats at room temperature are common, like lard or hydrogenated oils. But they don’t, as far as I know, form crystals. So no question vegetable oil may solidify, and the temp will stop bacterial action, but I’m not clear on whether it freezes or not.

    Granted butter does freeze, but butter contains quite a bit of water. vegetable oils are all fat, zero water.

  58. just nutha says:

    @Kathy: Speaking from the perspective of a non-conforming (to) evangelical(s), the panics are searches for justifications that will excuse not following the admonitions of the Bible to love one’s neighbors. They’re about hate, plain and simple.

    4
  59. DrDaveT says:

    @Paul L.:

    I was told Trump should have passed away of a heart attack by now.

    Depends which sense of ‘should’ you intend.

    4
  60. Bobert says:

    @Stormy Dragon:
    Re the NATO members defense spending target. IIRC, the “due date” for the 2% spending threshold was July 2024. However, the 2024 GDP’s are not yet confirmed, so 2024 report card is based on an estimate.
    Additionally, NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg announced that in 2024 non-U.S. NATO allies will meet the 2 percent target on average for the first time, and twenty-three out of the thirty-two total member countries will meet or exceed the 2 percent target, including France and Germany.

  61. Kathy says:

    @just nutha:

    I’d buy that from those who set such things in motion and often profit from such things. But people do believe such things and are genuinely scared of them.

    I’ve this theory that most people will believe more what they are told, often regardless of the source, than what they themselves see or are shown as evidence. I run into this a lot at work. It also applies, perhaps even more so, to rumors.

    One time I was going to the US for a vacation. My mom tells me people aren’t allowed in if their visa or passport (I forget which) ins’t valid for more than six months. Mine wasn’t, though it would stay valid during my trip. I looked up info online and found nothing. I went to the State Dept. site and found nothing. I even called a help number (long distance) and was told it was ok so long as the document in question was valid for the stay’s duration.

    When I informed my mom of this, she didn’t believe me, and urged me to cancel. And kept on urging me not to go until I left for the airport.

    Spoiler: I’d no trouble passing through customs and immigration, and had a lovely stay.

    Now, you’d think something this important would be easy to find info about. and also that airlines selling tickets for such travel would warn about it. So why do some people believe the rumor they got fiftieth hand from a friend of some acquaintance?

    2
  62. Michael Reynolds says:

    The ‘women’s vote’ is a mirage. There’s a Black women’s vote, and there are White women who do not vote as a unit but vote pretty much like White men.

    Look, I’m not going to waste a lot of time debating this. I’m right. It’s obvious I’m right. Identity politics is an abject political failure. It was always doomed to failure. Don’t believe me? Fine, you will in a few years. We got our asses kicked on abortion, got our asses kicked on trans rights, got our asses kicked on immigration, DEI is dead, all our pronoun bullshit is over, CRT is over, #Defund is over, even fucking Hollywood is done with progressives, the Left broadly is reeling back, bloodied, across the battlefield, beaten by a rapist con man, and you want to tell me there’s nothing wrong with the strategy?

    For good measure the whole campus Gaza obsession looks particularly silly and irrelevant, a transient fashion statement. Students who might have gotten behind Trans rights instead obsessed over a battle that had nothing to do with them and which they clearly did not understand. What have progressives succeeded at? Trump was first elected in 2016. Point out the progressive successes since then. Show me a single issue where the Left is stronger today than 8 years ago.

    I get it, there has to be a denial period before facing the truth, but delusion is supposed to be their thing, we’re supposed to be the reality-based party. Snap out of it.

    1
  63. just nutha says:

    @Kathy:

    But people do believe such things and are genuinely scared of them.

    Over the years, I’ve found very few people who were genuinely afraid in the post-Berlin Wall era. Most of what I’ve seen is anger at the loss of control and use of “I’m concerned” language as justification for trampling on the rights of others. Genuine fear is very infrequent in my corner of the world. Xenophobic reaction is more the norm. And no, I don’t think xenophobia is a genuine fear response, but I may be wrong.

    ETA: What incentive exists for airlines to warn ticket purchasers about anything?

    1
  64. Michael Reynolds says:

    @Gustopher:
    We need to tell the truth about history, and the truth is neither the Rightwing nor the Leftwing slant, because both sides insist on turning it into some heavy-handed, reductionist morality instruction. Tell the truth and leave people to draw their own conclusions.

  65. Kathy says:

    @just nutha:

    Airlines are supposed to check passengers have valid travel documents.

    Aside from that, they always post in their website a notice about current issues with travel, with links to further info.

  66. Kathy says:

    Among IP entering the public domain next year are the first iterations of Popeye and Tintin.

    No doubt someone will make a slasher flick of each. IMO, that was played out with the Winnie Pooh slasher film. Maybe a Popeye and Tintin porn film would play better. it would certainly draw attention.

    ON other things, James’ recent posts on the Biden pardons and sentence commutations got me thinking about the basics of deontology (simplistically: rules based ethics) and consequentialism (simplistically: morality depends on the consequences of actions).

    They’re both wrong.

    Rather they’re both incomplete. Deontology tends towards inflexible rules ones must follow, even if they foreseeably lead to bad outcomes. While conseuqntialism justifies heinous acts if they have a good outcome. Moreover, mixed with utilitarianism (or versions of it), conseuqntialism is fatal. Example: if driving the natives off their lands in pursuit of greater utility by those who will replace them, then it’s moral to do so.

    Deontology fails, IMO, because people most often look for some sort of beneficial outcome. not necessarily to their benefit, but to the benefit of someone. Like you give money to a panhandler because you think it helps them.

    Conseuqntialism can serve as a means for people to indulge in their worst vices and cruelty, as long as they can justify some sort of good outcome somewhere. See the example cited above, or demonizing trans women because that helps you win an election. It tends towards “the end justifies the means.” And people are drawn to the most awful means they can imagine.

    2
  67. DK says:

    @Michael Reynolds:

    It’s obvious I’m right.

    Ha! It’s obvious you’re a writer of fiction for kids, but we’re adults here, with adult appreciation for complexity.

    This year, the presidential candidate that ran on identity politics won his election; the one eschewing identitarian appeals to run on policy and ideas lost. So bloviating about “reality-based” thinking while peddling half-truths and drama queen strawmen arguments is silly.

    When abortion rights has appeared on the ballot, it has carried the vote. So much so there are more abortions being performed than before pre-Dobbs. Missouri, por ejemplo, just voted for abortion rights while otherwise voting for Republicans. This mixed, muddled reality conflicts with the kind of turgid prose popular in YA novels — oversimplifistic, melodramatic, hyperventilating. But “we got our asses kicked on abortion” is imprecise.

    Same for the rest. There’s kernels of truth, wild misdirections, and overall the reality is more nuanced than posited. Kamala and Democrats didn’t run on DEI, pronouns, or CRT. They ran on lowering housing and healthcare costs. Dems never embraced #Defund; Biden’s party passed a bill funding the police. Democrats didn’t organize campus protests; they upset Muslim voters by supporting Israel. And Hollywood being done with progressives must be news to the bean counters rolling in money from “Wicked,” a woke, feminist, anti-Trump blockbuster.

    Trump and Republicans ran fairly successfully on the identity politics of lying about Kamala and Democrats, and even some supposed allies repeat these smears. I get it: many Americans have been lying about blacks and black women for centuries, so they just can’t stop. It’s a deeply-ingrained pathology.

    But as you ask MAGA trolls of their invented boogeymen, who told you “the strategy is working”? Dems have no strategy to get y’all to stop falling for rightwing propaganda. The Dem non-strategy seems par the course: let us get the incompetence, chaos, and failure we voted for, and be ready when the winds shift, as always.

    You’d know best: since Dems already aren’t doing identity politics, what can they do to make people like you stop spinning tall tales about them?

    I think there’s nothing Dems can do to stop the crazy. It’s why blacks were begging Biden to stay in, over our betters who knew they were right that America would be more amenable to his black woman VP. We knew the same wobbly allies pushing Kamala Because Polls would later join rightwing propagandists in lying about Kamala’s Democratic Party. And here they are. It’s wild. This is why, again, black Americans should travel; it is helpful to realize majority-white populations can actually be majority-sane also, in modern times.

    Back here in the US, sometimes mental illness has to run its course. There was nothing Salem’s accused could do to stop the witch trials. People seeing phantoms, demons, and witches knew they were obviously right, what can folks with normal brains do? They waited for the mass hysteria to pass. This story has repeated itself throughout US history. Sanity cannot prevail in every election.

    Dems must keep pushing affordable housing, affordable healthcare, equality, and democracy, and wait for this country’s majority to either join its 92% of black women, 88% of Jewish women, and 86% of LGBT, and 78% of black men already chillin in Realityland, or perish.

    8
  68. DK says:

    @Michael Reynolds:

    Point out the progressive successes since then.

    – A historic climate bill, and a record increase clean energy production
    – Obamacare repeal was defeated
    – Record manufacturing jobs
    – A rewrite of economic theory, with a post-recession soft landing achieved by bailing out the middle and working classes, not by supply-side economics
    – First major gun safety law in decades, expanding background checks and school mental health funding
    – Record number of Americans with health coverage, thanks in part to extensive expansion of Medicaid and subsidized insurance
    – Caps on a number of Rx drug costs, including insulin
    – Marriage equality made federal law
    – De facto decriminalization of marijuana
    – Crime at 50-year lows under a Democratic president
    – Nearly $200 billion dollars in student debt canceled
    – A 2nd sexual revolution thanks to PrEP and advanced HIV meds
    – A record number people of color in higher levels of government, including on the courts

    Aren’t you fond of accusing the left of not appreciating incremental progress? Hmmm.

    10
  69. just nutha says:

    @DK:

    Sanity cannot prevail in every election.

    Thank you! That actually helps with my cynicism about the future of the nation.

    3
  70. CSK says:

    Where’s today’s forum?

  71. DK says:

    @just nutha: I mean, Democrats did well in 2006, 2008, 2012, 2018, 2020, and 2024. Are they supposed to win every election, every time? When they lose by 1.5% it means they’re a hopeless mess? Sorry, but no. Sometimes in life, due to all sorts of variables, you don’t get your way.

    Well-adjusted adults find this out in youth. But I get why privileged manchildren who think they’re always right find it shattering if they don’t always win.

    7
  72. Michael Reynolds says:

    @DK:
    Good grief, that’s even lamer than I expected. Obama care survived and that’s a progressive victory? No, that’s liberal stasis. And a gun control law that won’t last the month? And caps on some drug costs? I mean, seriously? Marijuana decriminalization is not a progressive victory it happened because the cause went mainstream about 20 years ago. Prep and advanced HIV meds are in what way a progressive victory? They’re hugely profitable for big pharma.

    Meanwhile women are dying because they can’t get medical care thanks to anti-abortion laws and trans people have lost every single thing they gained. Policing has not been improved, San Francisco and many other Leftie cities are cracking down on the homeless, books are still being banned, and Gaza is a parking lot while Netanyahu is more popular than ever. Oh, and MAGA now has all three branches of government.

    You’re delusional.

    2
  73. Michael Reynolds says:

    @DK:
    Oh, and I totally forgot immigration. So progs lost on immigration, women’s rights, trans rights, DEI, and Gaza which caused a rupture on the Left, lost ground with every minority in the vote count, while running against a twice-impeached felon and rapist, but hey, we cancelled a small percentage of student debt so hey, not so bad, right? Jesus H. Christ.

    Yes, we lost by just 1.5% but that was against the worst candidate in the history of our country. It’s like claiming you almost fought a six year-old to a draw. Oooh, so close.

    You aren’t this stupid, @DK, @Stormy is, but you’re not. But you are too defensive and insecure to face reality – the posture of once and future losers.

    1
  74. DK says:

    @Michael Reynolds: Hehe. Dude, you’re childish. Sometimes in the good way, other times…yikes. You spin yarns often, so its about what I expected. You can’t help it. Child storytelling is your trade.

    You constantly lecture the left for using impossible standards of perfection to poo poo progress. That’s a fair and necessary critique tbh.

    But somehow, now that you’ve been caught saying or suggesting things that are not true to market your latest work of fiction — Democrats ran on identity politics (not really), identity politics failed in this election (clearly not), someone here claimed there’s “nothing wrong” with Democrats’ strategy (who?), Hollywood is done with progressives (lay off the crack), there’s been no progress in the last eight years (easily-disproven bunk) — you’re reduced to moving the goalposts to try to stay right when you’re just not.

    The implication that because things are not perfect everywhere on the planet at all times, then everything everywhere is a disaster for liberals is nakedly dishonest. And hypocritical, based on your prior criticisms of purity progressives. It is simply immature to pretend we couldn’t pick any date in history ever then cherry-pick its atrocities and regressive outcomes.

    But, really, no one expects you to put the shovel down. Your ego and competetive nature won’t let you do anything other than insist you know everything and are always right. Just like a tantruming toddler. It’s kinda cute, endearing in a way.

    Nonfiction is obviously not your wheelhouse. Stick to whatcha know.

    2
  75. Matt Bernius says:

    @Jack:
    It would be so helpful if you were honest enough to let us know you’re copying and pasting from noted non-partisan site Brietbart… which we know is a far less partisan and has far more reliable analysis than us here at OTB (at least according to you).

    Here’s the article you cited: https://www.breitbart.com/environment/2024/12/25/study-global-coal-demand-record-high-2024-driven-china/

    The actual IEA article reaches some significantly different conclusions (which the Breitbard author sneers at in a totally nonpartisan way).
    https://www.iea.org/news/global-coal-demand-is-set-to-plateau-through-2027

    But of course, we’re the biased ideologs versus you who sees everything free of partisan interpretation.

    4
  76. dazedandconfused says:

    @Kathy: It doesn’t freeze hard like water but gets mighty stiff. The stopping of any chance of bacterial action is the goal.

    1