Christmas Eve Forum
Steven L. Taylor
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Tuesday, December 24, 2024
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59 comments
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About Steven L. Taylor
Steven L. Taylor is a retired Professor of Political Science and former College of Arts and Sciences Dean. His main areas of expertise include parties, elections, and the institutional design of democracies. His most recent book is the co-authored
A Different Democracy: American Government in a 31-Country Perspective. He earned his Ph.D. from the University of Texas and his BA from the University of California, Irvine. He has been blogging since 2003 (originally at the now defunct Poliblog).
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There was some animus and intent behind the release of the Gaetz investigation findings. By Republicans.
Indicative that a lot of Rs really, really wanted to shiv that guy on his exit from the House. Trump nominated him for AG and Rs hosed him anyway. That guy burned a lot of bridges, apparently.
I don’t know diddly squat about the internal politics on this, but I can read the tea leaves and Rs in the House wanted him gone and severely hamstrung on his exit.
This was more than “we need to get ahead of this” and cut an anchor loose. This was deliberate sabotage.
If the US goes full fascist, establishment media are not going to oppose this.
CNN:
Neither the Panama Canal or Greenland, let alone Canada are for sale. Trump is threatening war. Maybe not yet entirely seriously, but the the threat is there. Make no mistake about it.
And CNN is sanewashing this. Absolutely shameful shit.
@de stijl: Gaetz was and is an asshole, and his assholiness caught up with him. The GOP didn’t do this to him…he did it to himself. Gaetz was a frat bro clown who managed to alienate 98% of the people he worked with and, per the Ethics Committee’s report, repeatedly broke the law. Trump and Musk fall within the 2% who see Gaetz’s criminal buffoonery as an admirable trait for the Attorney General.
I was just downstairs indulging a bad nicotine habit and a guy came up to me with a sad sack story – I work at a hospital in Ankeny and I’ll get fired if I don’t show up, and the busses aren’t running today. Meanwhile, busses were literally driving past as he was pitching his story.
He wanted Uber money to Ankeny about 12 miles away. I kept trying to direct him to the bus station. No, he wanted Uber money in cash. Man, you’re barking up the wrong tree. I laughed.
Dude, I have heard every sad sack story there is. There is a shelter at 14th and Mulberry. Eight blocks away. They are the best folks to help you out right now. Social workers. Have them call your employer. In fact I will be volunteering there tonight and tomorrow. Might see you there.
There were busses going by on the street while he was trying to sell his story. Yeah, fuck him. He’s a bad con guy who uses guilt.
I got no problem with panhandlers, but con artists piss me off. I’d give a buck or two to an honest panhandler any day of the week, and often do, rather than to a scammer.
There was a guy who had a chef’s jacket that used to accost everybody who walked by for taxi money to get to work because his car was kaput and he had kids to feed. Days in a row. Same corner. All day. Fuck him.
@de stijl:..No, he wanted Uber money in cash.
Would that be Uber Lager or Uber Lite?
@drj:
Please don’t take this as a challenge, but I’d really like to know (perhaps by example) why you think that CNN is making Trump’s threat to Panama seem sensible.
I generally watch CNN during the 5am to noon ( not as much commentary), so perhaps you are referring to the “analysis and commentary” offered up during the evening hours.
@de stijl: Agree on all points, but what I can’t figure out is why they didn’t do this to Donald Trump when they had the chance back in 2020? All it would have required is a “yes” vote on the 2nd impeachment from a handful of sacrificial senators.
Jesus was probably born in Nazareth
When you read about the travels and adventures of the Parker Solar Probe, it’s hard to remember sunlight isn’t really hot.
@Tony W:
Nobody is going to storm the Capitol to keep Matt Gaetz in power, or even out of jail. That’s the difference.
@Bobert: They’re reporting it as if there’s some possibility it might happen. “If he’s serious…” Bullshit, it doesn’t matter if he’s serious or not, it’s a stupid crackpot idea with no chance of actually being done, and it also demeans and insults our allies, and it should be reported as such.
Let me throw this take out there and see if anyone can help me figure this out. I’m having a bit of trouble with the whole Gaetz thing. Set aside the 17 year old for a second. I don’t know how anyone over 30 can’t tell a 17 year old from an actual adult without willful blindness.
Ok, so background. I’m a partier. I party a lot. I take drugs and party (absolutely no coke though. Hard no). I’m very sex positive and I’d probably go to a sex party. I probably wouldn’t participate, mostly because that’s not in the current rules of my relationship, but I’d be open. I did get my ass beat in by a dominatrix at a rave recently though. HIGHLY recommend. Fixed my back for a week to get hit and spanked. Side note, I absorbed enough damage to freak out my friends. So, party. I’m very pro party.
I’ve read through a bunch of this Gaetz stuff and like 80% of it just sounds like one of my weekends. Like, after all the hype I’m finding myself either feeling very meh about it or somewhat sympathetic to Gaetz. Is it just that he’s sooooooo scummy about it that the last 15% of actual bad stuff is just made worse?
Like, I was intoxicated the other day and I sent a picture of myself in just pasties (waist up) to a bunch of my friends and like everyone just shrugged and like oh that’s just Beth. Like, maybe I’m a little less gross about it than he is, but it’s still a shocking thing to do. That’s why we do it. Also, I look super hot in that picture. Seriously, favorite pic of myself.
Anyway, what am I missing?
Well, now we know why Trump is suddenly threatening to invade Panama:
Trump org accused of tax evasion in Panama as president-elect threatens to reclaim canal
More than anyone, Gaetz was responsible for kicking Kevin McCarthy to the curb. That was this session. McCarthy is still there.
I think this was personal.
One of Biden’s final acts as President is to sign the first anti-queer law in 30 years:
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2024/12/23/statement-from-president-joe-biden-on-h-r-5009-servicemember-quality-of-life-improvement-and-national-defense-authorization-act-for-fiscal-year-2025/
I’m pretty strongly convinced Trump’s obsession with Greenland is in part due to being misled by the Mercator projection into believing it’s larger than Australia.
@Kylopod: I will reduce the formula one more step: Nobody cares about becoming Matt Gaetz; every Republican politician* wants to be Donald Trump. You don’t foreclose on having that kind of power to settle a single political score.
*And if we’re being honest, though I’m not advocating for honesty here, so do significant numbers of Democrats.
@Beth: Many of us are hesitant to admit that we’re ephibophillic or can go that direction readily?
@Beth:…missing…
…when you’re dead you’re done
Let the Good Times Roll
Louis Jordan
1947
@Stormy Dragon:
I’m sure that’s a factor.
The you that you were at a younger age is still with you. The you that you were when you were 16 is still there, and it’s still likely really hot for other 16 year olds. Just like you were when you were 16.
We use our frontal lobes to cross that off as inappropriate, since we can reason out that such a thing would very likely be exploitative. Some people can reference the 16-year-old that they once were to confirm that it would have been exploitative.
So, to be an ephebephilliac, one has to have disabled, or dismantled this frontal lobe section.
Hell Week’s looking a bit, a very tiny bit, up.
It turns out I’ve been with the company a number of years (I’d rather not know how many, much less tell), and got a small present. I was expecting parole, but that wasn’t the case. Instead it was a certain amount of store credit at Lex Bezos’ non-space company.
I don’t really need anything from there just now, or in the foreseeable future, so I’ll look into transferring it to my mom, who does get things she needs there. except, I may treat myself to a good cast iron pan first. Of course I’ll wait til next week, when prices are bound to drop.
@Beth: You do you, and I wouldn’t normally comment except that you posted to the open forum and asked us what we thought. But it strikes me that virtually every person caught in a me-t00 for showing their nether bits to someone in person or online has said something to the effect that “I didn’t intend to offend anyone! I wasn’t harassing anyone!” If it were me* I would make darn sure the people that I sent such a photo to were up for such stuff.
*It would never be me. I’m a Mid-Westerner, raised by Irish Catholic immigrants. I can’t imagine anyone wanting to see me less than fully clothed. It’s a wonder I’ve had children…
@Beth:
I am not a partier (he says with comic understatement) but I’m having the same issues. First, the age of consent in Florida is 18, but it’s 16 across most of the country. Simple decency should stop a normal 30 year-old man from screwing a high school kid, but that said, this is not pedophilia.
And weed? Seriously? We’re outraged that he smoked weed? My lungs are 20% resin. I’ve tried coke a few times, tried the hell out of it in a San Francisco hotel with two women (of appropriate age) after my second burglary. We literally bounced around on stolen cash.* That was also the last time I used coke, I never found it interesting. There’s no revelatory experience there, it’s just way too much espresso.
Without getting deep into TMI, frankly nothing Gaetz did is significantly worse than I’ve done. (And do.) He’s a POS, but not because he gets high and hires sex workers.
*Embarrassingly cliché, but I wasn’t a writer then.
@Beth:
BTW, do you live in the Bay Area? Because if you do, I suspect you’ve run into my daughter who did not inherit my dislike for crowds of people. Or even small numbers of people.
@Jay L Gischer: I don’t think self control is the only reason. When I was about 23 or so I went back to my college for a hockey game with a bunch of friends of the same age. Afterward, we decided to go to the Rathskeller (bar actually on the college campus) as kind of a nostalgia thing. I remember suddenly noticing these freshmen women looking and acting, well, exactly the same as I did at that age, and feeling horrified that I used to date such young girls – despite the fact that I was their age when I was dating them.
@MarkedMan: Well, yes. I’ve found that I have a complex, layered reaction to such things, though the final verdict is “nope, that’s not for me”. But that’s the frontal lobe feeding back into the amygdala. Which is what we call “wisdom”.
@Mister Bluster:
Well, Jesus is known as “Jesus of Nazareth.”
If you pay Trump a hundred grand, he’ll let you go to church with him!
http://www.rawstory.com/pay-to-pray-trump-reportedly-charging-supporters-100000-to-attend-church-service-with/
@Mikey:
Of course it stupid and crackpot, demeans and insults allies, BUT should CNN include that commentary as a news report? Perhaps on the commentary shows, where one would anticipate analysis, but on straight reporting of news?
There is no way of telling if Trump is serious or not (except that he seriously said it, so it’s news), but to my way of thinking news programming should not be about guessing. So they should take it as face value. That doesn’t make it sanewashing.
YMMV
@Mister Bluster:
I got no problem if an honest panhandler buys booze or drugs (partially) with my dollar or two. I’d prefer that they bought food or socked it away for a security deposit on an apartment, but what can you do? People are people, and people like to get fucked up every now and again.
The unhoused need diversion and entertainment, too. More than most actually. It’s a damn hard life. And most of it is incredibly boring, punctuated by assault and the threat of arrest. Looking for a place to pee and poop.
People who I give money to have to hear a half minute, minute spiel about CISS at 14th and Mulberry and how they have hot meals, electricity, running water, showers, toilets, a safe place to sleep. I underline and stress access to social workers and a free clinic.
I really do not have a problem if street people use money I give them to buy booze. Hell, I gave two bucks and two cigs to a guy I know this morning. Good cat. Fun to chat with. Mildly schizophrenic, but a solid guy. Known him since March.
I’m working at the shelter later today for four hours, and eight tomorrow. I’ve got no family in town and am not religious, so I have no problem working Christmas. If I can pitch in on days where a lot folks have plans, I will.
@Jay L Gischer:
amAnd will take that as you saying I have attained at least an iota of wisdom!
@Beth:
Yes. Aside from transporting minors across state lines so he could pay them for sex, there’s also just a vibe thing.
I have very little doubt that when you party you want everyone to have a good time. There is nothing about Gaetz that suggests he gives a damn whether anyone he parties with has a good time.
You send risqué pictures to your friends, he keeps showing them to his coworkers at work. There’s a difference. A level of implied consent. And I expect that difference applies to basically every action that, on the surface, seems similar between your pastimes and his.
@Beth:
You were not nominated for Attorney General of the United States, a position of high trust for which you could be compromised by ANY illegal behavior or have to judge the behavior of others who break the law (e. g., Trump).
@Beth:
You said it yourself. Gaetz is pure scum. That’s why no one but Marjorie Trailer Queen, Trump, and Kash Patel can stand him.
On the other hand, everybody likes you.
@Beth:
What district do you represent in Congress?
When it’s time to party, we will party hard.
Andrew W. K.
(Dammit! Now that song’ll be stuck in my head all day.)
@Bobert:
See, I don’t believe it’s commentary. It’s the plain truth. It IS a stupid idea, and it IS profoundly insulting to our allies, and it’s not a breach of some high principle of journalistic impartiality to report it that way. In fact, it’s better journalism, because it acknowledges context.
@Jay L Gischer:
Or, in the phrasing of Thinking Fast and Slow One has to accept system 1, unconscious intuition, without invoking System 2, willful reasoning. Which I think gets to George Lakoff’s observation that conservatives are able to think through complex causation, but they default to not doing so. Which is to say it’s understandable* that conservatives instinctively feel the hots for 16 year old girls (let he who is without sin…, I live near a beach) and just roll with it.
I forget where I saw it, someone expressed surprise that deeply religious Speaker Johnson covered for Gaetz for so long. Someone replied that covering for sexual peccadilloes is the norm in religious communities. And can there be any better example than religion of accepting intuitive feelings without reasoned oversight?
* As I’ve tried to explain to a couple of MSM idiots in the context of the UHC CEO, (understanding = approval) is one of the great conservative fallacies.
@CSK:
Well, you can hardly expect him to listen to boring prayers and badly sung hymns unless there’s something in it for him. Wasn’t there some stuff in the New Testament about Pharisees?
@Bobert:
Yes.
Maybe not in those terms. But a lot of people don’t know that things like territorial integrity forms part of the UN charter, or that countries can’t just demand territory, or that the Panama canal was ceded to Panama in the 70s.
All that should be mentioned along with the felon’s pronouncements in the news.
Paying “tribute” to the once and again future king.
I have successfully negotiated the next 3 days of family and extended family schedules and am ready now to take on negotiations between the new government of Syria and the various militias. It’d be a relief to deal with more co-operative parties.
Somehow I got ahead of work.
Well, not somehow. It was through spending the weekend at the office getting ahead of work (funny that). It helped the bosses finally dropped a hopeless project that 1) would have yielded little for the company(if anything at all), 2) involved several impossible tasks (like ordering 127 samples today for delivery on Friday), and 3) entailed a lot more work over Christmas and the weekend, and we might not have finished even then.
I may stay late today to do expense reports and other trivial but vital tasks, and take the day off tomorrow.
On other things, any thoughts, preferably without spoilers, on the series finale of Lower Decks?
I found it unsatisfying. In particular compared with the setup ep the week before. That one was among the best, even if it was 95% fan service. At least they did good fan service.
@gVOR10:
Eye of a needle. Camel.
A way larger subset than it should be of Christians excuse or ignore what Trump is.
Isn’t there something in their ethos about false idolatry?
Man, I’m so behind on my War on Christmas to-do list!
As a secular liberal, it is my duty to go into any Hobby Lobby or Michael’s I see and scream “Equal justice for all! Equal treatment under the law!” and flip everybody off. How else can our lord Baal enact nationalized healthcare with no co-payments or out-of-network 87,000% spurious charges?
I’m shirking my duties.
@Rob1:
Since you bring up Toyota, after the paean a few weeks ago to my faithful, well behaved Corolla (hasn’t broken down even once in close to 14 years), I sold it yesterday.
Or agreed to sell it. It will change owners on January 2nd for reasons.
The thing is my mom decided to buy a new car, and it makes more sense for me to take her old one and sell mine. My new used car is a Honda, I don’t recall what model.
Funny thing I sold it to a coworker who also bought my previous car, a crappy 1998 Altima. She knew the state of it and wanted it anyway… She had it for only a few months, before her husband totaled it (no injuries) two days before the insurance expired.
She knows the Corolla even better, having ridden it several times, and driven it a couple of times. She’s getting the best car I ever had.
@Beth:
@Michael Reynolds:
Going back to the 1990’s/early ‘oughts, and all-nighter trance raves in B’ham, or open fielders, policing sexual mores would have been a little problematical.
Accepted (legally and socially) mores at the time was that age of consent was 16.
I certainly knew females of 18 or 19 in fairly constant relationships with men in late 20’s/early 30’s.
(Personally, I always considered teenagers simply too emotionally unfixed for that; but that’s just me.)
But UK and US may well vary; I believe that in the US it’s common that under 21 cannot drink alcohol.
In the UK many teenagers would be in the pub and merrily supping from 16 or so, if not earlier.
Even after ID checks in pubs came in in the ’90’s, fake ID was the norm.
As also at the raves.
Those that even bothered at all in the first place. The open-fielders never did that I noticed.
(I suspect this may actually make Brit teenagers more savvy about sleazery; ymmv)
Otoh, at any pub or rave in the UK, I suspect Gaetz would have stood out like the proverbial sore thumb, and been avoided as a sleazy creep.
I mean, just LOOK at the guy.
Affection is one thing; predation another.
And most people, unless emotionally vulnerable, or in desperate personal situations (or, in some cases, totally off their face), are usually able to tell which is which.
In the “Reap what you sow” category…
Great article on how the Flu is surging in Louisiana because Louisiana (and their “red” leadership) forbids promoting vaccination for the flu, COVID and mpox
https://arstechnica.com/health/2024/12/flu-surges-in-louisiana-as-health-department-barred-from-promoting-flu-shots/
Makes a nice test case for what may happen in the next 4 years. Would be a great way to show others why we should not follow their example, that is, if people still believed in science.
@Liberal Capitalist:
Oh, FFS. What do they want to do? Kill off half their supporters?
@Kathy: I get Bezoscorp gift cards frequently from my SiL. To the degree that I understand how they work, you can’ t transfer the value to others, but I may be wrong because I don’t pay that much attention. You can buy stuff for your mother and have it delivered directly to her, though. I hope your relationship with your mom is good enough for that type of a plan to work.
If not, they don’t expire, so think of something you’d like to buy that is difficult to shop for in person, or that you wouldn’t be willing to spend your own money on. That’s how I got my Kindle. And the water distilling machine that make the water for the humidifier for my CPAP. And the trackball mouse that replaced the mouse that came with the computer. And…
The three magi are illegals and should be deported.
Mary and Joseph are homeless squatters and should be jailed and fined.
They stashed their child in an abandoned commercial building with unsecured animals milling about. Call Child Protection Services!
The herald angels singing is an obvious noise complaint waiting to happen. Hark! HOA is gonna be all over that.
@Just nutha ignint cracker:
Buying her stuff on Amazon was plan B. That’s always possible.
@MarkedMan:
I’m pretty open, being naked doesn’t bother me. There’s a lot of power in that. Unexpected naked people really freak people out. lol, I met one of my oldest friends in high school cause I walked into a party stone cold naked and sat on the couch and started talking to her.
To a certain point the harassment and obnoxiousness is the point. I enjoy being annoying to my friends. It’s the bad you get with the good of me. I’m a lot. I think the difference between me and Gaetz is if I’m told to stop, I’ll actually stop. Previously because I was afraid of being abandoned, now because I understand limits and not being a jerk.
@Michael Reynolds:
I mean, sometimes cliches are awesome. The final nail in the no coke policy for me was being at a party and talking to a girl who was just railing lines. I was like this is an awesome conversation. I might be the only person who enjoys talking to people who are on coke.
@Gustopher:
I suspect it’s awful to party with guys like Gaetz or Trump Jr. Like it can be fun to party with men being bros, if they are about being men and happy and not creepy. Creepy guys get bounced quick or maybe I just party with good people.
@Skookum:
@Kathy:
I dunno. Again, setting aside the 17 year old which is bad, I don’t really care about his hobbies. The drugs are only a problem because of the kind of people you have to deal with to get them. But I’m guessing that once they get access to the WH pharmacy the good stuff will flow.
@CSK:
Thank you, this means a lot to me. I’m having my annual Christmas “everyone hates me and is mad at me.” Thanks mom & dad.
@JohnSF:
Most of the Undergrounds I go to check ids pretty hard. My guess is that the trouble for throwing an illegal rave is exponentially worse if they catch under 21’s drinking. They check ids and check for weapons and that’s about it.
For the most part predators/sleezy people aren’t tolerated and do stick out. But, I’m a bad judge of that. I’d get in the “free candy” van if someone told me I’m pretty and funny.
I guess that’s really it, he was just such a creep that the creepiness is the “crime”, the rest is just moralizing and justification.
@Beth:
UK 1990s/’00’ perhaps rather different.
And as I said, in UK, drinking from about 13 was just normal.
And fake (and good fake) ID was pretty ubiquitous in the UK at that time.
Police usually not very interested; inner city parties, sometimes different (class/race thing).
But those events usually self-policed pretty effectively: both molester/perv types and hard drug dealers were usually identified quite quickly and told to “go away”.
As I have personally seen: if told to “depart, swiftly” by 6’6” viking-lookalike combine harvester drivers and brickies with long hair and tats, most folks get the message, lol.
@CSK:
No, they’re just “marking territory. “
I have a new computer, and I hate it with all of my heart. All the fonts are fucking weird, the colors are weird, and the keyboard won’t shut up when I type on it.
That said…..Merry Christmas to all you fools. The kids finally put the tree up tonight, over at my Mom and Dad’s house. Dad’s dead and Mom’s doing line dancing in Arizona, soooooo…. yay.
@Jax:
Did you get a mac?
If you have a real PC, right click on an empty spot on the desktop and open the screen configuration menu. then choose customization. I’m translating from my Windows 11 version in Spanish, so it may be called something else; the icon next to it appears as a paint brush. In that menu, you can adjust the fonts. scroll near the bottom to find it.
The colors can be adjusted in the screen configuration menu.
The keyboard should be easily replaced, unless it’s a laptop.
@Mikey: I realize that no one may see this, but I feel compelled to say:
When watching/reading news reports I pay attention to the use of adjectives, as when employed adjectives are likely the conclusions or commentary on the part of the reporter/news service.
Now, specific to your criticism of CNN; everytime I’ve observed them reporting on Trumps Panama pronouncements, they have stated that the canal was handed over to the country of Panama thirty years ago.
They have stated that there is no evidence that Panama is charging the United States unfairly, or differently as compared to all other users. They have pointed out that US military vessels have preferential treatment during emergencies.
To my mind, they have provided context, without pronouncing their commentary to tell the public what they should think/feel (obviously excluding the commentary programs).
Personally, I rather absorb the facts and draw my own conclusions, then have the “reporters” suggest what I should think. If and when I want their opinion , I’ll watch the editorial segments.
At the same time I respect that some other folks want/need to have their favorite “news service” to editorialize.
Have a Merry Christmas and a great New Year.