Crackdown on Thought Crimes
Cancel culture on steroids.
WSJ (“Workers Are Getting Fired Over Posts Mocking Charlie Kirk’s Death“):
Workers across the country who’ve mocked Charlie Kirk’s death online have quickly learned their words can get them fired.
From American Airlines to Nasdaq—and in workplaces that include restaurants, schools and law firms—employers have ousted or suspended staff in recent days for gloating, deriding or making otherwise contentious posts about the conservative activist’s killing. Many are getting flagged to the posts by online activists who’ve collected the names of commenters. Some prominent conservatives have joined the call, too.
“When you see someone celebrating Charlie’s murder, call them out—and, hell, call their employer,” said Vice President JD Vance as he guest-hosted the late Kirk’s podcast Monday.
The swift response from companies underscores their eagerness to distance themselves from political commentary that risks blowing back on their reputations with consumers—or the Trump administration. Business leaders have become less accommodating in recent years to their workers’ personal views on matters including the war on Gaza, immigration and transgender rights.
The outcry over employees’ comments on Kirk, though, has posed a new challenge for employers, executives say.
“This is very different,” said Vanessa Matsis-McCready, associate general counsel and vice president of HR services for Engage PEO, which handles workplace functions for small and medium businesses. “I really don’t feel like there was a time when you could have an individual make a statement on their personal social media and have their employer receive thousands of phone calls.”
Employers including Washington law firm Perkins Coie, the Carolina Panthers and others have said they fired employees who made comments or posted online in ways that didn’t match their values. The Secret Service put an agent on immediate leave for a Facebook post that mentioned “karma.” ODP Corporation, the parent company of Office Depot, said it fired workers after a video appeared to show an employee refusing to print a poster for a Kirk vigil.
Private businesses are, in most cases, free to fire people for just about any reason or no reason at all. Certainly, drawing negative attention in a way that creates backlash among potential customers is not likely to sit well.
Some of these cases are easier than others. A low-level employee doesn’t have the right to refuse to do their job based on their political beliefs. But it’s troubling when low-level employees are fired over social media posts that don’t implicate their company. Especially when it’s a result of partisan lynch mobs actively doxxing them.
More obviously, it’s highly problematic for the Vice President to be leading the lynch mob. And more concerning still when the Attorney General is threatening the use of state power against these individuals.
Mediaite (“Pam Bondi Threatens Charges Over Office Depot Employee Who Refused To Print Charlie Kirk Flyers: ‘We Can Prosecute You’“):
Attorney General Pam Bondi said the Department of Justice is considering bringing charges after a now-fired Office Depot employee refused to print flyers advertising a vigil for Charlie Kirk.
“We’re looking at that,” she said on Fox News on Monday night.
[…]
Bondi appeared on Hannity, where Sean Hannity asked about the limits of freedom of speech. In her response, Bondi cited the case of an Office Depot employee in Michigan, who, in a viral video, refused a customer’s request to print flyers for the vigil. Office Depot issued a statement on Friday saying that “the associate involved is no longer with the organization.”
The attorney general said that the employee’s actions may constitute a prosecutable offense:
I think yesterday or today, Sean, a school board member right here in Virginia had to resign because she said horrible things about Charlie Kirk and that he deserved to die. That’s horrific. It’s free speech, but you shouldn’t be employed anywhere if you’re gonna say that.
And employers, you, have to have an obligation to get rid of people. You need to look at people who are saying horrible things. And they shouldn’t be working with you. Businesses cannot discriminate. If you wanna go in and print posters with Charlie’s pictures on them for a vigil, you have to let them do that. We can prosecute you for that. I have Harmeet Dhillon right now in our civil rights unit looking at that immediately, that Office Depot had done that. We’re looking it up.
It is unclear if Bondi was talking about charges against Office Depot, the former employee, or both.
There is no civil right to print a poster. It’s just asinine.
Regardless, it’s clearly not a one-off.
WSJ (“Trump Advisers Prepare to Target Left-Leaning Groups After Kirk Shooting“):
The White House is moving swiftly to galvanize the outpouring of support for slain conservative activist Charlie Kirk into political momentum, as President Trump’s advisers weigh a slate of executive actions targeting liberal organizations.
Among the actions being discussed by the president’s team: reviewing the tax-exempt status of left-leaning nonprofit groups and targeting them with anticorruption laws, according to administration officials. The president could begin rolling out the actions as soon as this week, officials said, part of a bid to harness support for Kirk, particularly among young voters, ahead of the midterm elections.
Officials across the administration are working to identify groups suspected of targeting conservatives or causes conservatives support. That could include looking at attacks on Tesla showrooms earlier this year, as well as people who have retaliated against law enforcement carrying out Trump’s deportation campaign, the officials said, adding that perpetrators could be categorized as domestic terrorists.
The White House also plans to highlight what it sees as violent rhetoric from opponents, amplifying a law-and-order focus that has for weeks been a centerpiece of Trump’s political messaging.
It’s hard to see this as other than an abuse of power.
I forget, how do these folks feel about cancel culture and free speech?
In all seriousness, this is a horrific escalation.
Carl Yarvin thinks homeless people should be exterminated and Vance is a Yarvin fanboi. It stands to reason Vance has the same bloodlust.
When the excreable Brian Kilmeade said why don’t we just shoot the homeless, he was testing the waters. They’re just refining the message.
I don’t think there’s an evil this crew of Satan spawn won’t embrace.
After Vance’s podcast comments, the Horst Wessel analogies just seem more and more appropriate.
Two point on this topic…
I think this falls under my general rule that one of the things that unites the Left and Right is that all sides like harsh punishment for those they believe “deserve it.” And generally speaking they have very similar general ideas of what categories of actions “deserve” punishment. It’s just the specific applications where things diverge.
Second, I wonder if Rankin v. McPherson will survive stare decisis under this particular court.
https://firstamendment.mtsu.edu/article/rankin-v-mcpherson/
When the government is encouraging and empowering this kind of stuff, it goes well beyond a vague cancel “culture” to something deeper and more sinister.
Not as off-topic as it seems: David Ellison, oligarch, having bent the knee to Trump to safeguard his purchase of Paramount, is now going after Warner Brothers Discovery. Ellison owns CBS, which has already disgraced itself with bribes for Trump and kowtowing to MAGA. If/when he acquires WBD he’ll own CNN. One oligarch, two news networks, not to mention other TV and movies and whatnot.
This is how it’s done in Putin’s Russia. Trump needs a faithfully subservient oligarch in charge of news and entertainment. There is also speculation that Ellison will bid for Tik Tok, extending his reach even further.
ETA: Ellison might want to consider that his Russian role models ended up being forced out.
@Steven L. Taylor: Agreed, and I think this is the key point. When being canceled occurred it was due to social pressure for the most part. Or an employer thought it was disruptive. In this case the government is actively participating.
Steve
@Michael Reynolds:
. . . of windows.
@Matt Bernius:
Does anyone deserve to die? There are those that this world is better off without; Scalia, Limbaugh, and yes, Kirk.
Ashli Babbit ignored several warnings and likely deserved what she got, as much as anyone ignoring an officers warnings does.
Kirk didn’t deserve it but he sure did ask for it. His last breaths were spent on the demonization of people he hated for no reason. While he sat on his MAGA thrown as if his privilege would protect him.
And therein lies our problem going forward.
Kirk’s spent his career spreading hate and division. His only conception of unity is that everyone should agree with him. Everyone should live like him. Everyone should be like him.
Now MAGA is in the process of deifying this charlatan. They are fabricating a persona for him that did not exist and are using that myth to institute their fascist agenda.
Hiding behind “both sides” garbage will only cede the fight.
@Joe
Which version?
10 or 11?Screened or unscreened? Cleaned or dirty?@Daryl:
According to The Onion, we have a 100% mortality rate.
@Daryl:
The VP of the USA “hosted” Charlie Kirk’s podcast yesterday and had Stephen Miller as a guest. They pretty much redefined “unity” as alignment with the MAGA state:
This isn’t cancel culture – this is a flimsy cover for domination.
@Matt Bernius:
Just no.
Right now, there is one side that still believes in the rule of law, including such principles as in dubio pro reo and Blackstone’s ratio. The other side is spouting eliminationist rhetoric.
Maybe your general rule needs updating.
Is strange considering Mr. Kirk would have been unemployable in the private sector based on his social media posts or rants on radio. E.g. “Joe Biden is a bumbling dementia filled Alzheimer’s corrupt tyrant who should honestly be put in prison and/or given the death penalty for his crimes against America”
Serious government over reach from the party that used to condemn government getting too involved in what ultimately are private business matters. I think Kirk would even agree. Right in front of our noses
The hypocrisy would be breathtaking if not for … well for every effin’ day since You Know Who came down the golden escalator. To his credit, rightwinger Eric Erickson deemed Pam Bondi* a moron for failing to recognize the first amendment’s speech protection when she vowed to go after people insufficiently saddened by Kirk’s death.
*Somewhat hilariously, Laura Loomer constantly calls Pam Bondi “Pam BLONDI.”
@drj:
I’d be more sympathetic to the idea that the rule needed updating if there wasn’t so much evidence to the contrary. For example:
@Daryl:
I think the rule is still pretty spot on.
Again, there is no doubt in my mind that at any given time the dynamic changes and one side is worse than the other. And I’m full agreement that the bigger issue here is the “Right.”
But get anyone (including folks on the left) talking about punishment and trust me, things get pretty intense pretty quickly.
Which to some deeper cultural trends within the US going back to some of the religious fundamentalists (if not extremists) who founded many of the early northern colonies.
@Michael Reynolds:
That would be Oracle and Larry Ellison, David’s father.
Wealth and power concentration continues unabated.
Except, in many states a pharmacist absolutely has that right.
@Matt Bernius:
Oh, come on.
1) You are comparing an anonymous commenter on the internet with, let’s day, POTUS or Vice-POTUS.
2) That commenter didn’t even say that people on the right should receive harsh, state-sanctioned punishment.
(By the way, I fully agree with Daryl that the world is better off without people like Kirk. That does not mean that someone should act on that conviction. Because rule of law, etc. There are no grounds to assume that Daryl thinks differently.)
Like all things in this administration, everyone is momentarily stunned by the recklessness, the lawlessness, and the just sheer BS of it all. However, the cycle is getting shorter and the lawsuits will begin shortly.
And yet, the country is shuffling along as if nothing has happened. There are no front page editorials on our major newspapers, or non-stop reporting of our political crisis on tv.
Democrats in congress are not shutting down every process they can find while demanding the resignation of Bondi, Miller and Vance. They’re trying to find areas where they can work together with Republicans and our congressional leadership is looking for ways to keep the government running.
It’s almost as if we’re skipping gleefully into fascism.
And, for the record, if anyone is going to get shot in our country that is awash in guns and violence, Charlie Kirk was a bigoted shithead who totally had it coming, and it’s funny that he killed with a bullet with furry memes by one of Nick Fuentes’ weird little Groypers. His body should be defiled by ducks.
@Matt Bernius:
You seem to have read into my comment things that are not there.
@Daryl:
Imagine an alternative reality where they didn’t die, but were instead trapped, immortal, in slowly decaying bodies that had failed them. Kirk unable to stand because his body cannot maintain blood pressure — maybe they could seal off the wounds with duct tape or whatever, but there’s still all the damage from lack of oxygen.
I’m glad they’re dead. The alternative is a terrifying zombie apocalypse, even if they aren’t eating brains. A hellscape of never-ending pain and suffering.
@Gustopher:
This I agree with. Rather than trying to get Obamacare subsidies extended (or rather, in addition to), Democrats should be demanding policy/law changes to all the laws that are being abused: Insurrection Act, Alien Enemies Act, all the various emergency clausess. Heck, let’s get the term emergency defined in law and determine who can what is an emergency. Democrats had the Presidency and the Senate and just nothing on this front. I blame Schumer and Durbin for the mess we are in.
@Scott:
This is purposeful. We must never lose sight of American oligarchs who are all in on MAGAfied Republicanism. Musk used Trumpism for his purposes before getting back to enshittifying Twitter and Tesla. Thiel has his hand up Vance’s backside moving JD’s mouth.
I happened to come here right after reading Ezra Klein’s interview with Ben Shapiro. Shapiro kept going back to the IRS going after conservative non-profits (actually left and right non-profits, for violating the law, but Shapiro left those parts out) as his argument that bothsides attacked their enemies. Every accusation is a confession.
Shapiro also blamed Obama for our current divided polity. He said several times that Obama was divisive by being Black without ever quite saying Obama was divisive by being Black.
Klein started with a muddled apologia/defense of his ‘Kirk did politics right’ column. At least for now NYT is not allowing comments on the column, probably wise from their very narrow point of view. At one point Klein says, “I’m actually tracking it (Shapiro’s political evolution) because I think it is important to understand you to understand the right.” Which may well be true, Shapiro comes across as a very confused puppy. (Gift linkey, but it’s very long and not very interesting except as an exercise in conservative psychology.)
@Gustopher:
Good. Many vulnerable and elderly people rely on basic federal government functions that the relatively privileged can afford to take for granted.
I see no reason why autines and uncles in my immediate and extended family, who voted 100% for Harris — and who rely on Social Security, veterans benefits, pensions etc. — should suffer because other demos voted to profile and deport themselves. Or because the ‘Fuk Genocide Joe and Copmala’ crowd would rather get 0% with Trump than take a 65% win and push for more from a position of power.
@Matt Bernius:
Matt, my challenge is this:
Match this on the Dem side, with equal statements and actions from Biden, Harris, Garland, and the equivalent of Kirk on the left.
FWIW, the right’s hypocritical anti-speech overreach and fake free speech absolutism was roundly ripped across social media meme culture this weekend. So suddenly, the Republicans’ libertarians are trying to stave off backlash to the backlash:
Pam Bondi’s Ridiculous 24 Hours (National Review)
Elon Musk Backs Attacks on Bondi’s Hate Speech Remarks (MTN)
Right and Left Unite to Slam Pam Bondi For Promising Crackdown on Charlie Kirk ‘Hate Speech’ (Mediate)
Bondi promised to target ‘hate speech.’ She’s facing backlash from all corners. (Politico)
So conservatives now agree private citizens have their own free speech right to assert their values in the marketplace of ideas by socially ostracizing, i.e. cancelling, people who say/do things they find intolerable?
Welp. We are all wokesters now lol.
Anyway, can Congress block President Trumpflation’s job-destroying, economy-killing tariff taxation and mass deportation? And release the Epstein files?
@gVOR10:
I saw that Klein had Shapiro as a guest. I chose not to listen. But now, you have me curious. I guess I will listen. But I will hold you responsible for any and all displeasure I experience. 😉
Wrt Klein’s argument that Kirk did politics right:
To call one’s speaking engagements “Prove Me Wrong” is not doing politics right. It’s not doing debate right. It’s not doing discussion right. It’s not doing persuasion right.
By implication, it sets up Kirk as an authority on whatever topic could be discussed. Rather than establishing ground for debate centered on quality argumentation, it is an exercise in power that stifles discussion. It’s an attempt to confer a free-floating authority to Kirk in any topic that may be raised.
Moreover, it sets a tone of confrontation before discussion begins.
I had no interest in watching a murder, but I did see a clip of an exchange that preceded the gunshot. Kirk asked several times for a person engaging him to define “a man.”
Of course, the crowd cheered.
The audience member identified that question as a “gotcha”, to which Kirk responded with mocking derision rather than an argument.
I should add that the question on its own isn’t an argument. It confuses rhetorical emphasis with logic and argument.
The closest Kirk got to making an argument was his claim that “gender” is a made up concept. But that’s nothing more than a claim absent elaboration. I’ve not seen anyone who asks that question even attempt to provide their own definition. Nor do they consult biologists.
These tours on college campuses are not for the purpose of discussion nor debate nor persuasion. They are designed to be a specific, stage-managed spectacle in front of a mostly friendly audience. They are designed to draw protesters into a hostile situation.
People like Kirk want young, inexperienced undergrads to engage, because the playing field is tilted toward the organizers of the event.
If you get the Charlie Kirk Haters fired, that means more jobs for good, god-fearing white folks.
And soon, Trump’s terrible jobs numbers can be explained away as not measuring the things that matters — right wingers working jobs freed up by firing libs, and living in housing freed up by deporting illegals. It’s the American Dream.
@gVOR10: Ezra Klein has a vision of an America where we get together to calmly discuss whether trans people should be killed or whether single family zoning should be limited around major mass transit stations, and come to an amicable agreement through the inescapable force of reason filtered through culture and history and mutual respect that ultimately leads to the liberal outcome, with a few stumbles along the way, but which nearly everyone can live with. It’s a wildly ahistorical view of America, and of human history, but a view that has a definite appeal.
He’s functionally a grifter. Like RFKJr, he may believe his grift, but it kind of doesn’t matter.
And like RFKJr, he will steadfastly avoid the importance of anything that contradicts this vision, assuming that it is merely an exception that will yield to the true reality in the fullness of time. Because other than all the violence, haven’t all the great American struggles been peaceful?
I listen to his podcast sometimes, and I do enjoy it, but it’s also clearly coming from an entirely fictional worldview which requires a suspension of disbelief. A worldview that I do wish was real. It’s a long-form speculative fiction that asks the question “what if people were simply better than they are?”
I suspect that if I listened to his Ben Shapiro interview, it would break the fiction.
And an aside, since this is our designated Charlie Kirk thread du jour — before people make any assumptions based on the very selectively released transcripts of the shooter’s discord and chat history, it would be good* to understand that peculiar relationship of groypers to gender, transmaxxing incels, and Nick Fuentes’ relationship with a catboy.
Do you like viewing other people’s self-loathing? Then you’re in for a treat!
It’s a corner of the right that is filled with apparent contradictions, and assumptions of Roman history, where it’s ok to be gay if the partner will play the role of a woman. And a hatred of women so severe that they will try to create a woman that is better than the real thing, and where some will try to grab all the perks that being a woman gives.
*: good here means “informative” not “good for the soul”.
Klein makes the mistake that so many liberal thinkers (left and right) make regarding people like Kirk: that discussion of opposing viewpoints is an effective way of determining truth. Kirk and his ilk do not see discussion that way and do not use language for those purposes. They deploy language as a means to acquire and exercise power. There is no way to have an honest discussion, much less debate, with them because they don’t engage in discussions or debates. What they do can sometimes have the superficial form of discussion or debate, but that’s like saying that a stabbing has the superficial form of surgery. The goals are fundamentally different
@Erik: Well put, Erik. Ironically, the GOP has gone all-in postmodernist — words don’t mean things, statements don’t have truth values, language is strictly for manipulation of other people’s emotions and behavior. Yet another complete U-turn in what Republicans allegedly believe… I think we have pretty clearly established at this point that MAGA has no actual principles. Just hatred of The Other and a deep sense of grievance.
@gVOR10: IMHO, Klein has completed the journey from Bright Young Thing to Both Sides Do It (but the Dems are worse)