Friday the 13th Forum

FILED UNDER: Open Forum
Steven L. Taylor
About Steven L. Taylor
Steven L. Taylor is a retired Professor of Political Science and former College of Arts and Sciences Dean. His main areas of expertise include parties, elections, and the institutional design of democracies. His most recent book is the co-authored A Different Democracy: American Government in a 31-Country Perspective. He earned his Ph.D. from the University of Texas and his BA from the University of California, Irvine. He has been blogging since 2003 (originally at the now defunct Poliblog). Follow Steven on Twitter and/or BlueSky.

Comments

  1. MarkedMan says:

    If Trump becomes convinced he will lose, I believe he will drop out, believing that Vance has a better shot and will certainly pardon him if put in office. At this point, though, I’m wondering how many states still have the time to replace Trump with Vance on the ballot?

    1
  2. Tony W says:

    @MarkedMan: I cannot imagine a scenario where Trump:

    1) Believes he will lose

    2) Drops out

    3) Even cares about the policies that he and Vance talk about.

    The two reasons for running are to delay prison another 4 years, and to have more years to siphon money from the American people. Vance can’t pardon non-Federal crimes, and there are a lot of those.

    Quitting destroys both of those reasons.

    Trump will not drop out.

    23
  3. MarkedMan says:

    @Tony W: Totally agree with #3. I mean, Trump doesn’t care about policy, much less Vance’s policies.

    I think it is unlikely that Trump will drop out, but there is a non-zero chance. If he becomes convinced he is likely to lose to a black woman, I think he will drop out. Many people believe Trump is a “fight to the last drop” kind of guy, but that doesn’t match his history, which is more of a “turn everything to shit and storm off in a huff when it all comes crashing down” scenario.

    Again, I don’t think is likely, but it is possible. But if you can’t wrap your head around that, substitute “dies” for “drops out”. Which states are beyond the point of no return for ballots text. Doesn’t mail-in start in a couple of weeks in some states?

    1
  4. charontwo says:

    @MarkedMan:

    Which states are beyond the point of no return for ballots text. Doesn’t mail-in start in a couple of weeks in some states?

    Does it matter? The voters vote for electoral college electors, not people, so just would be voting for the Republican elector slate.

    3
  5. Not the IT Dept. says:

    Trump is not going to drop out. Too many of the people around him know which buttons to push to prevent that. They’ll say everyone will think he’s quitting because he’s losing like Biden was – I’m pretty sure being compared to Biden on anything at all would be good for a 20-minute tantrum ending up on the ceiling. And that he can’t trust Vance to follow through on any airy pledge to pardon him if Vance wins. He’d want lawyer-written agreements signed in advance before he’d quit.

    And there are other people counting on Trump being in power to pardon or exonerate them, and they certainly wouldn’t trust Vance to follow through on Trump’s commitments. (Yeah, I know the value of Trump’s promises but hope springs eternal in MAGA-ville.)

    But I agree with others above: he just isn’t going to quit because he thinks he can still win. If he’s taking advice from Tulsi Gabbard and Laura Loomer at this point, he has exited Earth’s orbit and is sailing away to the far edges of the universe.

    5
  6. Bobert says:

    @charontwo:

    The first voting officially was already supposed to be underway with mail-in ballots in the key state of North Carolina, but that process was delayed by courts that ruled ballots must be reprinted without the option of Robert F. Kennedy Jr., who suspended his campaign and endorsed former President Donald Trump. (Via CNN

    .

    Seems like the NC courts are concerned about the candidates name.

  7. MarkedMan says:

    @Not the IT Dept.:

    he thinks he can still win

    I agree that as long as he thinks he can win he will not drop out.

    2
  8. Michael Cain says:

    @MarkedMan:

    At this point, though, I’m wondering how many states still have the time to replace Trump with Vance on the ballot?

    All states must send ballots to registered overseas military personnel by Sep 21 this year (federal law).

    In my vote by mail state, county election officials must have physical possession of printed ballots by Oct 4. At least in the larger counties, that also implies the ballots are folded and inserted in the proper envelopes. Those larger counties hire the printing, folding, and insertion out to one of a few qualified firms. Contracts, including schedules, are negotiated months and/or years in advance.

  9. Mister Bluster says:

    Republicans are eating their own…

    Marjorie Taylor Greene calls far-right activist Laura Loomer’s rhetoric ‘huge problem’ that ‘doesn’t represent MAGA’
    GOP Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene criticized far-right activist Laura Loomer on Thursday, saying that her “rhetoric and hateful tone” is concerning and a problem and “doesn’t represent MAGA as a whole.”
    The comments from Greene, a Georgia Republican who has her own high-profile history of incendiary and inflammatory remarks, come after the congresswoman called on Loomer to take down an X post, in which Loomer said if Democratic presidential nominee Kamala Harris, who is half Indian, wins, “the White House will smell like curry & White House speeches will be facilitated via a call center.”
    Greene called the post “extremely racist,” and wrote in response on X, “This does not represent President Trump.”
    Source

    Catfight?

    4
  10. Moosebreath says:

    @Mister Bluster:

    “Catfight?”

    No Haitian jokes, please.

    11
  11. Joe says:

    he thinks he can still win.

    Holy s–t, @Not the IT Dept., I think he can still win.

    4
  12. Scott says:

    @Mister Bluster: Speaking of Laura Loomer: Why isn’t the Harris campaign or reporters not making more of a deal concerning Loomer’s attendance at the 9/11 ceremony. It would tie Trump’s disrespect for the deceased, Trump’s dallying with far right looney conspiracies, and contempt for the 9/11 first responders.

    7
  13. Beth says:

    @Scott:

    Reporters? Because they know Trump is fucking Loomer and they can’t figure out how to both-sides it. Greene and Graham’s BS is because they are freaking out and trying to scare her off.

    7
  14. charontwo says:

    Both nuts and senile:

    tweet TFG in AZ

    Wow…. Donald Trump’s rally in Tucson, Arizona was a mess.

    Bro was totally slurry and as utterly incoherent he’s ever been.

    Let’s recap it:

    JD Vance is nowhere to be found. Bro hasn’t been invited to a rally in a while. Telling.

    He starts by hyping up the crowd despite the Linda Ronstadt Music Hall only having a capacity for 2195 people. There were empty seats too. In comparison, VP Harris had 8600 people at her rally today.

    You could tell his tiny crowd size was bothering him.

    He claimed he had a “monumental victory” against VP Harris in the debate. Sure, bro…

    He said she “spewed lies.” Pure projection.

    He whined about Linsey Davis and David Muir.

    He had issues saying “industry,” “Snopes” (he called it “Snoops”), “confiscation,” “notice,” “and,” “interest,” “Russia,” “jokingly,” and “woman.”

    The cognitive decline is fierce.

    He lied about the abortion after birth thing again, disgusting.

    He’s giggling at his own jokes. I think he’s on something. This is super weird.

    He called VP Kamala Harris “the leader of the movement Defund the Police.” Uh, no.

    He says Project 2025 “never had my authorization.” He implemented over 2/3 of their policies in 2017.

    He says that crime is so much worse now than when he was in office. False. Crime has gone down since the spike when he was POTUS.

    He falls back on his Twitter polls as proof that he “won the debate.” Nah, bro.

    He seems to think that his debate with Biden counts as debating Harris. Not the case.

    He claims his weird “Town Hall” with Tulsi Gabbard had the best ratings. It didn’t.

    He tried to diss David Muir’s hair. Odd since I’d take David’s hair over Donald’s…whatever that is…any day of the week.

    He claims VP Harris is “a threat to democracy.” So much projection.

    He’s slurring calling Harris and Tim Walz “weird.” He clearly doesn’t like being called weird himself, so we should keep doing it. A lot.

    He called Tim Walz “the future Vice President.” Well, he got one thing right!

    He repeats that he won’t do a “third debate” because it’s “too late” since early voting has already started. Donald Trump is a chicken.

    He goes on an angry rant about immigrants and migrants.

    He whines that VP Harris smiled during the debate. Bro, she was LAUGHING AT YOU.

    He’s pushing lies about Springfield, Ohio. FAFO in a swing state, bro. I can’t wait for Haitians to help flip Florida.

    He claims people in Hollywood vote for him because of “low taxes.” Further proof Donald only cares about giving tax cuts to the wealthy.

    He says they lie and say they’re not voting for him and then secretly vote for him. Not happening, bro.

    He claimed he got “more votes than any sitting president in the history of the country” in 2020. HE LOST THE ELECTION and he’s once again claiming he didn’t lose after admitting he did multiple times in the past month.

    He said “we’re never gonna let that happen again.” We all need to be prepared for what he’s gonna make his base do when he loses AGAIN.

    He claims that “in a couple more years they’ll be fired” about Linsey Davis and David Muir. Is he threatening them if he wins?

    He called Linsey Davis “nasty.” What a dick.

    He now goes back to people in Hollywood voting for him. Delusional man can’t even keep his own train of thought.

    He claims someone named Martha cried when he won the debate. Uh.

    He’s bragging about crowd size again. He’s also saying he did 7 rallies in 2 days. He did not.

    He’s now asking how many rallies Biden would do…he keeps forgetting who he’s running against.

    He tries to get the crowd excited and it sounded like less than 50 people were clapping. Sad.

    He’s now talking about Venezuelans taking over places with AK47s. He was the one who stayed the deportation of Venezuelans right before he left office.

    He’s now calling Kari Lake “Border Kari Lake.” Super lame nickname and of course he praises himself for it.

    He’s crying about Biden again. Yikes. Bro’s mind is mashed potatoes.

    He’s back talking about Venezuelans with guns and he’s trying to do math. No joke.

    He claims Harris is flying in migrants on jets.

    He whines about the Forbes 400 and claims Forbes “isn’t doing so well.” He’s still butthurt that they dropped him from their list.

    He’s back to demonizing “20,000” Haitian migrants in Springfield, Ohio. FAFO bro.

    He said “they’re taking the geese…and walking off with their pets. My has been stolen.”

    He keeps talking about someone named “Art.” I’m smirking.

    He says he’ll “stop World War 3.” Bro is gonna try to start it.

    He’s crying about Biden not talking to Putin.

    He claims that immigrants and migrants can’t pay rent. He immediately talks about the “explosion in rent” in Springfield, Ohio. Pick one or the other, doofus.

    He’s talking about sleeping with a chart “every night.” I mean, that’s more than Melania is sleeping with him. She won’t even be in the same state as him, let alone the same bedroom.

    He’s going to “ban mortgages for all illegal aliens.” I thought he said they can’t pay rent but now they can afford to buy a home? Again, pick a lane dingleberry. You’re embarrassing.

    He claimed the average income raised $7000 under him. False. 3 million people lost their jobs.

    Donald says he’s going to save the average person in Arizona “$800 and $1000 a month” on their mortgages. Is he planning on giving away free homes? Bro is straight up lying.

    He arbitrarily says he’s going to cut their power bills by 50% in the first year. How do people believe this absolute bullsh*.t?

    He said people “can’t afford to buy cereal” and that people bring three apples to the checkout and then put one back because they can’t afford it. Fruity Pebbles near me are $3.49 and an apple costs $.59.

    He wants to repeal “every unnecessary rule” for construction of homes. Let’s make houses implode again!

    He claims “government regulation” is to blame for “40% of the cost of single family homes.” Bro is legit just making up numbers as he goes along. This is painful to watch.

    He says he’s going to cut the cost of new homes by 30-50%. Is he gonna give away land for free? FFS. Bro is mental.

    Ah. He just said he’s going to open up federal land for “large scale housing development.” Great. Let’s turn Yellowstone into a strip mall while we’re at it.

    He’s complaining that the media covers his inability to say words and calling him “cognitively impaired.” The media genuinely needs to call this out.

    He calls Melania “our great First Lady.” She’s not the First Lady, and she’s not great either.

    He said Melania complains about his hair at his rallies. Good. He looks like a bum with an animal living in that weird hair nest.

    He’s complaining about low income housing. He’ll take away any safety net that people who are struggling have.

    He said he “doesn’t have problems with women” and that suburban women love him. E. Jean Carroll would like a word. So would Stormy Daniels.

    He said women “don’t want to be hurt, molested, killed.” I don’t want to have to carry my rapist’s baby, bro. And that’s now happening to women in 13 states thanks to you.

    He asked “why wouldn’t they like me” about women. UHHHHHHHH. How much time do you have, Donald?

    He said women want choice and that he’s for choice. But he’s talking about school choice, not bodily autonomy. I hate this man.

    He’s whining about “copycat” VP Harris saying “no taxes on tips.” Hahahaha. She still lives rent free in his head about this.

    He’s now trying to bribe people by saying that he’ll end taxes on overtime. We all know he’ll never implement this.

    He’s bragging about Biden’s student loan debt elimination being stopped. Vile.

    He claims he took in more money from the IRS after he cut taxes for the wealthy, “by a lot.” Not true. Our national debt was skyrocketing under him even prior to the pandemic.

    The crowd cheers the loudest for his hateful speech about transgender people.

    He lies and says schools are transing kids after parents drop them off.

    He claims VP Harris was “the leader of that.” Fake news.

    He lies about the boxers in the Olympics again. I really hope they sue the ever-loving sh-i.t out of him.

    He does some lewd gestures and talks about “getting it up.” I want to vomit in my mouth.

    He makes up a story about a trans swimmer who won the Olympics and some female swimmer getting “wind burn” as a result. WHAT THE ACTUAL EFF?!?! See the video below. I couldn’t stop laughing. Sorry for that!

    He’s begging people to get their friends to vote. He knows he’s gonna lose.

    Oh.

    Now he’s doing the air jerk dance going off the stage.

    It makes my skin crawl.

    – Fin

    I’m sorry this one took a while. I kept pausing and leaving the tv because he was royally pissing me off. I genuinely cannot wait until I don’t have to do these anymore.

    This man is one giant ball of hatred and we need this cancerous negativity removed from our society.

    Is the media gonna cover any of this or nah?

    16
  15. MarkedMan says:

    Trump is making more and more own goals. A day after Johnson had to pull the CR because he didn’t have the votes, Trump posted this:

    “If Republicans in the House, and Senate, don’t get absolute assurances on Election Security, THEY SHOULD, IN NO WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM, GO FORWARD WITH A CONTINUING RESOLUTION ON THE BUDGET”

    Trump’s CR is done. Dead. Repubs are more afraid of the electorate than they are of him. And after that has been clearly demonstrated, he still posts (essentially), “IT’S ME OR HIM BRENDA! DECIDE RIGHT NOW!!!” The craven Repubs will put a finger in the wind and choose, “HIM”, and that will make Trump look even weaker.

    5
  16. Grumpy realist says:

    @charontwo: and 95% of Republican politicians will continue to support Trump as long as they think they can get more money or power by pandering to his supporters. After all, it won’t be their houses that the mob burns down.

    Putin must be smiling.

    3
  17. Kylopod says:

    The following has long been my favorite excerpt from Laura Loomer’s Wikipedia page.

    In 2017, Loomer claimed to be dating alt-right activist Tim Gionet, who had tweeted a photoshopped picture of Loomer being executed inside a gas chamber, referencing the killing of Jews during the Holocaust. Gionet denied that the pair were dating.

    1
  18. Franklin says:

    @Mister Bluster: I was baffled by this. MTG realized a curry joke was racist, and actually said so? She must really hate Loomer for some reason.

    3
  19. gVOR10 says:

    @Joe:

    I think he can still win.

    And current polling says he can still win. His rally attendance appears to be down, which I have been looking for for eight years as a sign he’s losing his grip on the MAGA. And a lot of rats, most recently Alberto Gonzales, are leaving the ship. And yet he has better odds of winning than he did in 2016.

    Gonna be an interesting couple of months. I don’t think he’ll quit. He can’t. Winning is his only legal defense. In any case, ballot deadlines are passing. But he may have a public meltdown.

    4
  20. gVOR10 says:

    @charontwo:

    He starts by hyping up the crowd despite the Linda Ronstadt Music Hall only having a capacity for 2195 people. There were empty seats too.

    Ahead of the rally at her namesake hometown hall, Ronstadt endorsed Harris. She added that her two kids were adopted and she owns a cat.

    6
  21. Argon says:

    @MarkedMan:
    I would be unsurprised if a Trump pardon was very likely part of the deal when choosing a vice presidental running mate.

    4
  22. MarkedMan says:

    @Franklin: From what I understand, Greene’s district contains a surprisingly large East Asian contingent, who tend to be more conservative and therefore are more likely to vote for her. She’s protecting her local base. My guess is her shock at discovering gambling in her own Party doesn’t extend beyond counting her own votes.

    2
  23. MarkedMan says:

    @Argon:

    a Trump pardon was very likely part of the deal when choosing a vice presidental running mate

    Makes sense, but I don’t think an explicit deal is necessary. I don’t care who it is, if a Republican gains the White House with Federal Criminal cases pending, they will pardon Trump. They could not possibly withstand the interanal pressure to end it, and wouldn’t want the constant distraction anyway.

    3
  24. Kathy says:

    Boeing’s machinists in Everett, Washington, have rejected the deal Boeing offered, and have also voted to strike.

    They have a really big point. In the last contract, negotiated in 2014, they gave up pensions and accepted increased health insurance costs. Since then Boeing has made a mess of the MAX, losing tons of money on it, and also spent around $68 billion on stock buybacks and dividends since 2010.

    Since Boeing moved production of the 787 exclusively to South Carolina, where the workforce is no unionized, now they face the very bad problem of halting production of their best seller, the 737 MAX. For both Boeing and Airbus, the narrow body mainline jets represent well over half their revenue. these planes cost less than widebodies, but sell in much greater numbers.

    So, a word of advice to Boeing’s new CEO: get your dick out of the meat grinder if you’re going to keep cranking it.

    4
  25. Argon says:

    @MarkedMan:

    Many people believe Trump is a “fight to the last drop” kind of guy, but that doesn’t match his history…

    Brave, brave, brave, brave Sir Robin!

    From a Three Stooges short:
    Moe: “I’m prepared to flight to the last drop of his (Curley’s) blood.”

    2
  26. Michael Reynolds says:

    I do not dismiss the possibility that Trump will bail out if he knows he’s losing to a Black woman. Is he sufficiently in touch with reality to reach that conclusion? Eventually, probably. If he sees Kamala up by 5 points in the swing states even he will get a clue. Maybe.

    The one thing we can be sure of is that he will need to construct a narrative that allows him to declare some sort of win, or at least a victimization story.

    If he does get to this point of seeing a looming loss, how does he play it? Does he wait and take his beating on election night? If he loses does he call for violence? Likely, but not likely that much will happen. He will of course demand the House negate the election and appoint him king. But if Kamala has a convincing win, is the GOP House ready to go fill 1860? And BTW, we will still have the WH at that point, so Biden could use his SCOTUS demigod powers to put a stop to it.

    I am not one of those who believe he will never face imprisonment for his crimes. That will terrify him. That would be intolerable. But then, losing to a Black woman would be almost as intolerable.

    There is a non-zero chance that he will read the writing on the wall, concoct a story about death threats or DOJ conspiracies, hop on his plane and flee, leaving his toadies (looking at you Drew and JKB) to weep and wail and gnash their teeth and begin their Lost Cause pity party.

    But the list of places he can flee to is shrinking fast. Russia? North Korea? Budapest is nice, but would even Orban be that stupid?

    3
  27. MarkedMan says:

    @Joe:

    I think he can still win

    Just to be clear, I also think he can still win, my hypothetical notwithstanding.

    1
  28. MarkedMan says:

    @Michael Reynolds: Sounds about right.

    BTW, still no sign of our trumpers? Not showing up in any thread?

    1
  29. Argon says:

    @MarkedMan:

    They could not possibly withstand the interanal pressure to end it,…

    Lol! That’s no typo!

    3
  30. Michael Reynolds says:

    @Beth:

    MTG is jealous because Loomer is sleeping with Trump, and MTG thought that would be her thing. And the same with Lindsay Graham. The competition to be Eva Braun is fierce.

    11
  31. CSK says:

    Trump says he won the debate because only losers, such as Harris, ask for a rematch.

    1
  32. Kathy says:

    Lately traffic has been incredibly bad. Now, it’s true traffic in Mexico City tends to be bad. We neither invented it nor perfected it, but we’re really good at bad traffic with poor street planning, unsynchronized traffic lights, free for all public transportation, excess vehicles, and about 98% of the global number of speed bumps*.

    With all that, traffic’s been terrible lately. Example, without any traffic, as in the trump pandemic era lockdown, it took me about 18 minutes to drive from office to home and viceversa. With normal traffic, it takes about 25-30 minutes. Since late August, I’ve been averaging over 45 minutes. Tuesday it was 90 minutes. The total distance is 11.6 kilometers.

    I can find no explanation or cause. From what most coworkers say, it’s like that in other parts of town as well. We’re all stumped, and very much annoyed.

    Also, I cancelled my remaining vacation for the first two weeks of September, because the first of the big Hell Week requests for proposals was set to publish the first week of the month. It’s the end of the second week, and it hasn’t dropped.

    I moved my time off to the last two weeks of September. I’m taking it even if every other customer publishes their requests. The bosses won’t let me, but that’s their problem. One of my nieces married a doctor, who I’m sure will be amenable to say I need to quarantine for two weeks for reasons 😉

    *I’ve measured the distance from home to office and the number of speed bumps. The average is a speed bump every 300 meters. Most of them are in the residential area comprising the first 3/5 of the commute.

    4
  33. al Ameda says:

    @charontwo:

    I’m sorry this one took a while. I kept pausing and leaving the tv because he was royally pissing me off. I genuinely cannot wait until I don’t have to do these anymore.

    Just on the basis of our having experienced 9 years of this bullsh*t, and we’re prospectively looking at 4 more years of civic and cultural PTSD … I’d say that there’s no need for you to apologize for posting ‘what it is.’

    4
  34. Kylopod says:

    @CSK:

    Trump says he won the debate because only losers, such as Harris, ask for a rematch.

    After the June debate, Trump was calling for new debates with Biden (not just the already scheduled one in September). So by his current logic, Biden won that debate.

    6
  35. charontwo says:

    @al Ameda:

    I’m sorry this one took a while. I kept pausing and leaving the tv because he was royally pissing me off. I genuinely cannot wait until I don’t have to do these anymore.

    Did you notice the blockquote, that recap was from the Twitter link I posted – but I very much concur. I will be overjoyed when that sorry attention whore becomes unable to compel my attention.

    4
  36. MarkedMan says:

    @Argon: Talk about Freudian slip!

    1
  37. just nutha says:

    @Mister Bluster: I’m trying to figure out why MTG objected. Was it because she didn’t think of it? As political quips go, it strikes me as fairly clever and pretty tame. Though just now writing that I realized that it lacks the rabid anger that MAGAts and their leadership crave.

    [Emily Litella voice] Nevermind.

    1
  38. charontwo says:

    @MarkedMan:

    Trump’s CR is done. Dead. Repubs are more afraid of the electorate than they are of him. And after that has been clearly demonstrated, he still posts (essentially), “IT’S ME OR HIM BRENDA! DECIDE RIGHT NOW!!!” The craven Repubs will put a finger in the wind and choose, “HIM”, and that will make Trump look even weaker.

    here is a tweet with embedded video plus some text, from Trump’s psychologist niece Mary Trump:

    Mary L. Trump

    re: debate fallout:

    “She inflicted a narcissistic wound from which he will never recover. It literally is going to determine how he handles the next 50 days or however many days there are until the election.”

    An additional point:

    If you have ever lived or worked with a true narcissist, you understand the truth here. If they feel attacked, questioned, or humiliated by someone they will NEVER get over it and obsess about revenge.

    Trump is still angry that Obama roasted him at the White House Correspondents Dinner many years ago.

    I think over the coming weeks many knock on effects of the debate will develop to Trump’s disadvantage. Less enthusiastic GOTV volunteers for example. Which is why I regard that debate as a torpedo below the waterline of the Good Ship Donald J, Trump.

    4
  39. Kathy says:

    Mad Vlad is now saying if Ukraine is allowed to strike deep(er) into Russia with Western supplied weapons, that then NATO will be directly at war with Russia.

    For a change, he declined to rattle the nuclear sabre. Though his UN ambassador made it a point to remind the security council Russia is a nuclear state.

    I think he’s bluffing. Sure, the countries in the NATO alliance don’t want to fight Russia. If they did, they’d have sent troops to Ukraine, and carried out strikes very deep within Russia and Belarus by now. But neither does Mad Vlad want such a war.

    It’s unclear who’d win, even with Russia’s forces bloodied and weakened as they are now. A long stalemate is a possibility, and so is the use of nukes by Russia. Driving the no Red Army out of Ukraine, even including Crimea, is not an existential threat to Russia, but it is to Vlad. Any serious intervention by NATO would cause massive damage. I’m far less certain how much Damage Russia could inflict on NATO countries. A lot, no doubt, on the Baltic republics, and perhaps on Poland.

    Would he use nukes? It’s hard to say. Rationally, the answer is no. Any use, even a small tactical nuke for clear, limited military battlefield objectives, risks escalation. A delusional person can build a narrative that predicts how things will go, and convince himself a 10 kiloton bomb dropped on a troop concentration or air base won’t escalate matters.

    I still think his bluffing. But calling a bluff always carries the risk it may not be a bluff.

    One thing I’m a tenth part confident in predicting, is that all NATO leaders will wait until the election results in November before making a decision.

    2
  40. charontwo says:

    I am perhaps being a bit picky/pedantic but I did not much care for a post headline yesterday:

    The Real World Consequences Of Trump’s Racism

    A more appropriate title:

    The Real World Consequences Of Republican Racism

    The Haitian/pets thing was early bouncing around extreme right websites, then J.D. Vance started pushing it hard, repeatedly. Trump only picked it up later, typical of most of the crap he spews.

    3
  41. Michael Reynolds says:

    @Kathy:
    I don’t think there’s any doubt who’d win a NATO/Russia war. Russia would lose conclusively.

    1
  42. CSK says:

    @Kylopod:

    Oh, the MAGAs are all on board with Trump spurning another debate. When did they ever mind–or even notice–Trump reversing himself?

    3
  43. becca says:

    Lots of delightful speculation that trump is banging Laura Loomer. Someone on Reddit called her Temu Melania.

    6
  44. Kathy says:

    @Michael Reynolds:

    A lot depends on what constitutes a win. Did America win the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan?

    Besides that, at what cost? Ukraine has taken a lot of damage, especially deaths. Russia has long range heavy bombers. NATO defenses may be good enough to keep Germany and France safe, but what about the Baltics, Poland, Romania, Bulgaria, maybe even Greece?

    On top of all that, what shape are NATO arsenals in? A lot of ammo has been expended in Ukraine already.

    3
  45. steve says:

    Good new. Grocery prices are now at lower than 2019 levels when you calculate them as a percentage of hourly wage. This is for non-supervisory workers.

    https://x.com/ernietedeschi/status/1833855226794709405?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email

    Also, per CDC, Fentanyl related deaths are now decreasing and the increase during the Biden years has been much, much less than during the Trump years. Roughly 27,000 during the Trump years and 5,000 during the Biden years.

    Steve

    5
  46. charontwo says:

    @charontwo:

    The Springfield situation has been developing for months, with neo-Nazi and white supremacist organizations heavily involved along with J.D. Vance, according to a long detailed piece at Talking Points Memo.

    TPMt

    1
  47. Mister Bluster says:

    @charontwo:..Trump is still angry that Obama roasted him at the White House Correspondents Dinner many years ago.

    The Republican Party is still pissed that Richard M. Nixon resigned in the face of impeachment by the House of Representatives and removal from office by the Senate a half century ago. They will never give up on getting a Democratic President to resign or to be impeached in the House of Representatives and removed from office by the Senate.
    Just another reason to vote for Democratic candidates in United States Federal elections.

    2
  48. charontwo says:

    Here is a different TPM piece:

    TPM Gift

    Public Menace: How Trump Mobilizes the Violent Extremists in His Midst for Political Ends

    snip …

    When Donald Trump broke all the rules and held a campaign event at Arlington National Cemetery, the story broke down when the cemetery employee who tried to prevent the rule-breaking and who was physically assaulted declined to press charges. But of course she did. She knows Trump World rules. She’d be deluged with death threats, have unstable Trump extremists showing up at her home. It’s a given that when a civilian becomes part of a big national story, their life gets at least somewhat turned upside down. But until recently it wasn’t a given that their lives would be endangered or that they’d be menaced in their homes. Those are the rules in Trump World.

    We were working on another story about a very aggrieved person tied to the larger Arlington story. We tried. But it was clear they didn’t want to come forward. And who can blame them? Maybe you want to see Trumpian behavior exposed. But how much physical safety and sense that you are safe in your own home would you give up to make that happen? Probably not a lot.

    Finally, Greg Sargant, of TNR and formerly of TPM, had a good piece earlier this week about how the Pentagon is stonewalling efforts to get documents on the incidents to Capitol Hill investigators. Why? A range of potential reasons. But the real one is they don’t want trouble either. It hasn’t gotten a lot of attention. But there’s been an ongoing story in the military affairs world of careers getting tarnished or even wrecked after people in uniform didn’t genuflect sufficiently to Trump (post defeat) or other Trump influencers. They don’t want trouble.

    You can say that’s personal and institutional cowardice. And you’d be right. But that’s not the full story. Trump World makes the rules clear: get in our way and we’ll hurt you, often literally. That, after all, is what happened to that woman at Arlington. We know our supporters have a strong capacity for violence and an eagerness to use it. And if you cause problems for us, we will sic them on you. We already have cases of mass murder, killings, attacks, bomb threats, actual bomb making, harassment and assault from pro-Trump extremists incited either by Trump himself or his army of influencers. Of course we have the actual attempt to overthrow the government of the United States, which Trump orchestrated.

    We come back to the simple point: Trump’s movement is filled with violent extremists and radicals. They have a demonstrated willingness and eagerness to commit acts of violence against their perceived partisan enemies (mostly Democrats, but also any obstacles to Trump’s will). “Stand back and stand by.” Trump is not simply incautious in his remarks about this fact. He actually mobilizes that propensity for violence as a political tool. It’s already distorting and degenerating American civic life. And he’s not even back in power yet.

    6
  49. Mister Bluster says:

    @MarkedMan:..trumpers?..

    See the JKB lament at 11:23 on yesterday’s Dershowitz thread. Then scroll down for witty replies.

    1
  50. dazedandconfused says:

    @Kathy:

    I think Mad Vlad is reacting as we might in the same position. If this was a war on our border and Russia officially declared their weapons could be used to attack NYC, DC, or any place in the US, we would view it as an act of war. Therefore I suspect the people running things will still have restrictions.

    1
  51. Michael Reynolds says:

    @Kathy:
    Putin’s only possible kinetic moves against NATO are direct against Poland. Or count on closing the Sulweki Gap and roll up the Baltics.

    A direct move against Poland would be a one-sided massacre. The Ukrainians are magnificent, but they do not have anything like our arsenal, or our numbers, or our training, or our doctrine. Remember that Ukraine has stopped them without F-16s, let alone B-1s, B-2s, B-52s and F-35s. Nor does Ukraine have the ability yet to conduct combined arms warfare. Long story short: NATO airpower would annihilate any Russian attack. We would lose a lot of planes, but they would lose all their radars and SAMs, and the entirety of whatever air forces they were dumb enough to commit.

    The Gap issue is tougher, but manageable. First, Putin would have to concentrate very large forces near the border without being detected. That is not happening. By the time he could commit we’d have moved ships into the Baltic and brought ground forces up from Poland, Germany and France, as well as NATO’s entire air force. Russians are continental fighters and imagine that they could roll into Lithuania and Estonia and take so much ground so quickly we’d be left on the back foot. They never have understood naval power. Hell, they don’t seem to understand air power. NATO naval forces carry a very large punch and the Baltic Sea belongs to us.

    Meat grinder tactics – all Vlad has – do not work on a modern NATO battlefield. And that’s before we look at counterattacks against St. Petersburg which is a brisk walk from Finland. And they would of course leave themselves open to NATO moves through Ukraine to hit them from the South, something they are manifestly incapable of coping with. And in a very few years, Poland by itself, would be able to stop them.

    And, BTW, all this before additional US forces could arrive from the States. The Russians don’t have the numbers, or the weapons systems, or the morale, or the tactical ability. A Russian attack would leave their many, many other borders undefended. One of their neighbors is China, which considers much of far-eastern Russia as Chinese homelands.

    3
  52. Jay L Gischer says:

    @Michael Reynolds: I’m not sure I agree with everything you post.

    However, the Ukrainians have demonstrated the ability to take out the Russian S-3 and S-4 air defenses, which only a few years ago were very scary.

    Which leads me to believe that if NATO fully engaged, it would gain strategic air superiority in short order.

    The Russians have already spent a bunch of manpower and materiel on Ukraine. They do well with relatively static lines, and human wave tactics. NATO can win such a fight economically, but it would take a long time, and the political situation could be a problem.

    Making things more mobile seems more sensible, and NATO is focused on doing that, and has been focused on beating the USSR (which used exactly the same ideas in conducting warfare) for a long, long time.

    Yeah, I say it goes to NATO, too. But it would be costly, and nuclear deterrence is a thing.

    Putin’s posture might be “World annihilation is preferable to a successful occupation of Mother Russia.” He could have political support for that in Russia, even.

    Which is why all these guys at, oh let’s say Defense Institutes get paid the big bucks to think about this stuff.

    3
  53. dazedandconfused says:

    @MarkedMan:

    I believe Trump, if he loses, will claim the election was stolen and announce his candidacy for 2028. This running for POTUS stuff has been by far the most profitable scam of his entire career and he knows the moment he stops fighting will be the moment the money stops flowing.

    3
  54. Kathy says:

    @dazedandconfused:

    If the US started a war of conquest on a neighboring country, they’d deserve it, too.

    @Michael Reynolds:

    Mad Vlad wouldn’t try to take over territory in NATO countries, just bomb them heavily to cause casualties and damage. BYW, this now would also include Finland and Sweden.

    Although in such a war, maybe the US could take Vladivostok and give it to China in exchange for leaving Taiwan alone.

    2
  55. Kathy says:

    @dazedandconfused:

    I’d bet he doesn’t make it to 2028.

    I hope he won’t make it through 2025.

    None of which precludes him from running again.

    2
  56. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @becca:

    Temu Melania.

    That was mean spirited and totally uncalled for. 😛 Still, I can see what they’re going for.

    2
  57. dazedandconfused says:

    @Kathy:
    I suspect you may be right, the legal issues will catch up to him. Sometimes two flushes are needed but that usually gets it done.

    1
  58. Michael Reynolds says:

    @Kathy:
    We have more bombs and more missiles and more precision for both. If Russia directly attacked European Cities it wouldn’t even be mad, just stupid. Mass destruction on both sides. Qui bono?

    Don’t forget that we can hit Russia from Europe, and Putin can hit Europe, but unless he’s going nuclear he can’t hit the US or any of our far-flung bases. And then there’s the Navy which can hammer St. Petersburg and Murmansk and Vladivostok without much worry.

    Russian FSB trolls will try to tell you different, but the US and its allies are many times stronger than Russia. Russia would be left with no military forces of significance. They’d be defenseless and nibbled to death by Ukraine, Poland, the ‘Stans and China.

    Putin’s only hope for the future is Donald Trump.

    3
  59. Michael Reynolds says:

    @Kathy:
    Also, China doesn’t need our help to take Vladivostok, they can take it tomorrow.

    In the mid-term Putin is weak. In the longer term, he’s irrelevant aside from nukes. Russia is just Italy with nukes. He can of course commit national suicide, but that’s all he can do.

    2
  60. Franklin says:

    @dazedandconfused: Even if his fragile health holds up, he could be in prison or overseas. I don’t see it as likely that he’ll run in 2028.

    1
  61. Gustopher says:

    @Michael Reynolds:

    I don’t think there’s any doubt who’d win a NATO/Russia war. Russia would lose conclusively.

    The only doubt is whether the US would also lose.

    4
  62. Kathy says:

    This is massively unfair. Why should only Harris get a limited edition ice cream from a major manufacturer?

    Unfair, manypeoplesaythat! Ben and Jerry’s should do the honorable thing, and issue an El Weirdo Felon Bullshit Swirl Ice Cream. With real, creamy, actual bullshit scooped fresh off the best ranches in Texas! Justice demands no less.

    3
  63. Michael Reynolds says:

    @Gustopher:
    Well, unless we’re having nuclear armageddon, the US would do just fine – as we did in WW1 and WW2. It’s lovely having big oceans all around. If we weaken are Canada and Mexico going to do to us what China et al will do to a weaker Russia? The US has the luckiest geography of any country with the possible exception of New Zealand.

    3
  64. Kathy says:

    @dazedandconfused:

    I’m thinking more like natural causes will catch up to him.

    @Michael Reynolds:

    Remember the laws:

    Nothing is ever that simple.
    Everything costs more and takes longer.
    No battle plan survives intact upon contact with the enemy.
    Anything that can go wrong will go wrong.

    3
  65. Michael Reynolds says:

    @Kathy:
    I don’t think you will find a single non-Russian military expert who thinks Russia could even begin to handle NATO. They can’t beat Ukraine, FFS. Russia has never been good at war. No, not even in WW2. Losing half your country and something like 20,000,000 people is not your first rate war fighting. Germany was fighting half the world and lost a third of that.

    I wouldn’t worry about it. As long as we don’t elect Trump, NATO is secure.

    4
  66. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @Kathy:

    MoveOn’s Scoop the Vote Tour will include stops in more than 20 cities in battleground states, with rallies held in Michigan, Wisconsin, Arizona, and Nevada.

    Follow up question, why should only people in battleground states get ice cream? I want ice cream, too. And as a not-registered-to-vote person, I deserve ice cream as an incentive to register. The fact that I live in a D +40 or so city in a D+16 state shouldn’t matter. Not at all. [eyeroll]

    4
  67. becca says:

    @Just nutha ignint cracker: well, since Loomer has called many other innocent people far worse, I meant it mean-spirited and no backsies.
    Personally, I can’t get over how big her head is.
    Okay. I’m done.

    3
  68. DeD says:
  69. Eusebio says:

    Although the Russian armed forces have been exposed as having limited capability to mount a major conventional action against Western forces, talk of a Russia/NATO war seems a bit fantastical. It’s predictable that Russia would threaten consequences over the use of Western weapons systems in some unspecified ways inside Russian territory, but the US administration has made it clear to the world that we will not risk a WWIII. And despite what the Russian Foreign Minister said a couple of years ago, Biden discussing restraint versus what “would be WWIII” is not a threat to use nukes–in fact it’s the opposite. The only world leaders I can recall having openly threatened to use nuclear weapons during the last decade are Putin, Kim, and Trump.

    3
  70. Kathy says:

    @Michael Reynolds:

    And there’s no way the Taliban could take on America.

  71. gVOR10 says:

    @Kathy: Next you’ll be into crazy talk, like Iraq had no WMDs, or North Vietnam wasn’t a threat to us, and what was Grenada about.

    @Michael Reynolds:

    Russia has never been good at war.

    I’ve been reading a history of WWI in the East. Going in Russia had the most feared army in Europe. I’m only up to early 1915. Russia has masses of men, but they’re already sending new recruits to the front without rifles, they can’t replace boots, and they’re about out of artillery shells.

    3
  72. Eusebio says:

    @charontwo:
    WRT to the TNR piece referenced in the TPM excerpt:

    Greg Sargant, of TNR and formerly of TPM, had a good piece earlier this week about how the Pentagon is stonewalling efforts to get documents on the incidents to Capitol Hill investigators…
    …But there’s been an ongoing story in the military affairs world of careers getting tarnished or even wrecked after people in uniform didn’t genuflect sufficiently to Trump (post defeat) or other Trump influencers. They don’t want trouble.

    This corrupt influence applies to military and federal civilian personnel as long as there’s a threat of TFG regaining the presidency. The open discussion of plans to remove tens of thousands of employees and replace them with loyalists has left no doubt. Career employees may now be considering their actions in light of how they’d be viewed by the current administration (execute the job effectively and as required) versus that of the TFG (high value on personal loyalty, acceding to superiors’ political pressure). In some respects, the TFG perversely holds more sway over some employees than the current administration. A possible recent example is the FBI bending to political pressure following Wray’s testimony that they didn’t know whether the striking projectile was a bullet or shrapnel, followed by an FBI statement saying it was likely either a bullet or fragment, which is what TFG needed to say “apology accepted.”

    1
  73. Mike in Arlington says:

    @gVOR10: Does that book touch upon the Russian-Japanese war? Talk about a charlie foxtrot.

    1
  74. Kathy says:

    @Michael Reynolds:
    @gVOR10:

    No country is just one thing forever.

    Peter I did pretty well at leading the Russian Empire in War, so did Catherine.

    On the other hand, Nicholas II f**d up the Ruso-Japanese War worse than anyone would believe.

    Russia has three advantages when it gets invaded: 1) size, 2) mud*, 3) winter. Both Napoleon’s armies and the nazis’ found such a vast country had little trouble trading space for time, even relocating whole industries well back of the front lines. In the fall, rains turn the ground to a muddy morass that makes advance difficult and very slow. The same thing happens with the spring thaw when ice and snow melt. In between there’s a really cold, really harsh, really dark winter. The locals are both acclimated and prepared. Invaders tend to be neither.

    A war involving NATO against Russia now would be solely to end the occupation of parts of Ukraine, including Crimea. Not to invade Russia nor take over the oil fields. Remember it took weeks of bombing and days of ground fighting to dislodge Saddam’s armies from a much smaller area, and which were far less entrenched and lacked any local support.

    Exuberant optimism in war is hubris.

    *On the flip side, Mad Vlad’s troops were caught unprepared for the muddy conditions in Ukraine early on in the war. You’d think they’d have known better. There’s even a word in Russian for the muddy seasons, Rasputitsa.

    2
  75. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @becca: Maybe I should have use a 😉 emoji instead of the 😛 one. Be as mean spirited and unnecessary as you feel you need to be with my blessing. [thumbs up emoji]

    ETA: And the “mean spirited and unnecessary” was about the “Temu Melania” quip. You should let the redditor who invented the quip take the heat. It Trump can play “lots of people are saying…” soican you. (And Loomer REALLY DOES look like Temu Melania. It was my first reaction to claims that Trump and Loomer are a thang.)

    2
  76. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @gVOR10: They started buying artillery shells for NK about 2 years ago. I think “about out” is two or three exits behind them.

  77. Kathy says:

    @Kathy:

    I need to make a correction. The time I counted speed bumps and came up with one every 300 meters, was between my old place and the area where I live now (they’re rather close), and the distance is about 5 kilometers, not 11.

    On other things, I found the tape measure (it was at the office for some reason), and measured my old monitor I recalled as being small. It’s 19″ these days that’s not big, but it’s far from small. I must have confused it with an even older monitor I no longer have. The laptop, in contrast, measures in at a microscopic 13″.

    I found the Mythbusters ep where they test traffic “myths.” I’ve a bit of a bone to pick with their terminology in this case, since what they tested was a valid explanation for one cause of traffic. Other than that, they did very well.

    This reminds me of the time they tested the hypothesis (again, not a myth) that minimizing left turns saves time and fuel. they got exactly that result, but they ran the experiment only once each for no left turns, and left turns as needed.

    With light traffic in my usual routes home, I do notice a slow down at three points where a left turn is needed, one in each route. All involve getting through oncoming traffic in order to make the turn. Two have stop lights for the turn, one doesn’t.

    It’s not a massive slow down most times, and it doesn’t usually create ancillary long lines of traffic, but I do notice it. When possible, I avoid these routes. But I wonder if eliminating most left turns would help ease traffic overall. If it’s something I’ve noticed, chances are someone has studied the matter already. Also, I understand many delivery companies, like UPS, employ the no left turn policy.

    1
  78. Thomm says:

    @Kathy: in a majority of new Jersey there is no left turns made on major roadways onto other ones or large parking entrances like big shopping areas.
    Instead they use, “jug handles” that are right side exits that do a half circle to a stoplight tom make the left. Also an early US heavy user of traffic circles.

  79. dazedandconfused says:

    @gVOR10:

    Netflix has a series “The Last Czar” which covers it nicely.

    The Russians have always been bad a war, look at all those crude wins. Napoleon, Adolf, both had vastly superior troops and were good at war. I had hoped it was shaking out like WW1 in the early days of this. Putin had been so sure it would be quick and easy he didn’t even bother to prepare his troops properly. The possibility they would rebel was clear. However he found guys who will fight for a terrible-at-war outfit. There is something frightening about the Slavic character. Perhaps best documented in the HBO series “Chernobyl”. They found guys willing to walk right into hell for that one too.

  80. JohnSF says:

    @dazedandconfused:
    Perhaps.
    But the Ukrainians are also Slavs.

    Historically, Russia has won despite disadvantages; but also, it has lost, despite advantages.
    (Crimean War, Russo-Japanese War, WW1, etc)
    It really doesn’t tell us much about how Russia now can cope with massive adverse attrition now, given the evident political/economic problems of a general mobilization.

  81. JohnSF says:

    @gVOR10:
    The thing was, pre-1914, nobody thought a full-on war could be sustained for longer than about 6 to 12 months max.
    Therefore, the Russian army plus reserves should be decisive.
    Oops.

  82. JohnSF says:

    @Kathy:

    “Russia has long range heavy bombers”

    Which it has not used over Ukraine, because it is liable to lose them, both to Ukrainian SAM and to the residual UAF air interceptor capacity; which nobody talks about much, but is a very real factor nonetheless.
    Russian bombers have been reduced to using long range stand-off missiles, which cases damage, but not on a war-winning scale.
    To be really effective, they need to be able to carry out direct bombing.
    They can’t do so.

    1
  83. JohnSF says:

    @Kathy:
    The UK has obviously decided (and did before the election: this is plainly a consensus decision at Privy Council level)
    The whole reporting indicates London wants UAF to have near free-fire use of UK weapons vs Russia.
    The US and Germany still prefer to play grandmother’s footsteps.

    1
  84. Michael Reynolds says:

    This phrase caught my attention in a Krugman column:

    many people get worse as they grow older because they become more like themselves.

    And I wondered if that was true. I mistrust all things epigrammatic on principle, but it made me think. I don’t think it’s right for me. I used to be a fairly decent sociopath. Now I keep the sociopath in the basement. I don’t kill him, I mean, you never know what life will hand you. Might need him.

    Krugman said it specifically in reference to Trump. You can’t discount the medical causes of late-stage souring character. He’s got something going on in the dementia spectrum.

    He’s clearly collapsing verbally. ‘I weave.” Uh huh, sure you do Grandpa, sure you do. Now I’m gonna need your car keys. But I think it’s too vague to say that people become more themselves. You are what you are at any given moment, regardless of age. It may be that the worst of you comes to the fore, less filtered. But that may be an effect of the approach of death. At 78 even a cretin can figure out that there’s less ahead than behind.

    I suspect the big thing, other than medical reasons that people sour is fear of death, often accentuated by physical pain, and a more generalized fear of becoming vulnerable.

  85. Flat Earth Luddite says:

    @Mister Bluster:

    GOP Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene criticized far-right activist Laura Loomer on Thursday, saying that her “rhetoric and hateful tone” is concerning and a problem and “doesn’t represent MAGA as a whole.”

    Bwa haha hahahaha hahahahahaha. Sob. Gasp. Giggling cackle.

    Oh, stop it, MTG you’re killing me.

    2
  86. JohnSF says:

    @Kathy:
    The NATO arsenal has not been appreciably reduced; and European munitions production is ramping at a rate that should cause an underwear crisis in the Kremlin.
    Democracies being democracies, and birds being ever eager to wet their beaks, there will be issues.
    But the fundamental is: compared to the industrial capacity of Europe alone, never mind Europe plus the US plus the rest of the OECD, Russia is a rounding error.

  87. DrDaveT says:

    @Michael Reynolds:

    And I wondered if that was true.

    We’ve been saying this in my family for years, if not generations. Old people become the distilled essence of themselves. The facades and filters boil away, and all that’s left if what was really central all along. That can be beautiful, or horrific.

    My mother-in-law lost all of her ability to pretend that she was not a classist racist would-be oligarch. My father-in-law became a wholly self-absorbed solipsist. My father is losing his ability to pretend that he hears (or cares) what other people say. No major personality changes — just an intensification of existing trends and patterns.

    1
  88. JohnSF says:

    @Michael Reynolds:
    Never mind F-35 😉
    RAF Typhoon’s or French Rafale’s, are entirely capable of chomping up Russian air assets and spitting out the bones.
    (The Typhoon networked air superiority capability is f’@kin awesome. Trust me on this.)
    Russia if attacking NATO loses air control in hours.
    Then it faces air/missile attack in depth on every identified command and logistic centre.
    And trying to advance against NATO forces that can call down hell on any identified target.
    As an artillery guy I know once said, re an exercise: “Oh, come on, let me kill.” Lol.
    The Russian loss ratio in Ukraine is massively adverse; it’s trivial compared to what it would face against a NATO force.
    And the Russians might be lucky: they might fight Brits, or Germans, or French.
    God help them if they meet Finns, or Poles.

    1
  89. @Thomm: When I lived in NJ, I found that design to be very beneficial.