Romney’s Indictment of His Party
Calling out a large chunk of the GOP.
Via The Atlantic: What Mitt Romney Saw in the Senate.
“A very large portion of my party,” he told me one day, “really doesn’t believe in the Constitution.” He’d realized this only recently, he said. We were a few months removed from an attempted coup instigated by Republican leaders, and he was wrestling with some difficult questions. Was the authoritarian element of the GOP a product of President Trump, or had it always been there, just waiting to be activated by a sufficiently shameless demagogue? And what role had the members of the mainstream establishment—people like him, the reasonable Republicans—played in allowing the rot on the right to fester?
I had never encountered a politician so openly reckoning with what his pursuit of power had cost, much less one doing so while still in office. Candid introspection and crises of conscience are much less expensive in retirement. But Romney was thinking beyond his own political future.
Emphasis mine.
He also told WaPo: “It’s pretty clear that the party is inclined to a populist demagogue message.”
He also said:
Romney said he remains worried about the state of democracy in the United States. “I think it’s of paramount importance to maintain our commitment to the Constitution and the liberal constitutional order,” he said. “And I know that there are some in MAGA world who would like Republican rule, or authoritarian rule by Donald Trump. But I think they may be forgetting that the majority of people in America would not be voting for Donald J. Trump. The majority would probably be voting for the Democrats.”
Even though it is not a new revelation, it is pretty startling for a sitting Republican Senator to say “I know that there are some in MAGA world who would like Republican rule, or authoritarian rule by Donald Trump.”
He is not mincing words.
Without trying to parse out what such statements may mean for individual voters in 2024, like with things Mike Pence has said, this statement by Senator Romney is extremely significant. It matters that co-partisans tell the truth about others in their party.
Romney is, as we all no doubt recall, a former presidential candidate (2012) for the Republican Party. He was, therefore, not that long ago the head of the party. He is a sitting US Senator and has had a lengthy political career. And yes, he is currently an outlier within his party in a variety of ways. But he is stating for the historical record, as well as anyone who will listen now, that one of our two major political parties has an anti-constitution faction. This is not news to anyone who has been paying attention, and he will be dismissed by many GOP office-holders and voters (either because they support the authoritarian wing or because they can rationalize their support for it), but it is nonetheless a dramatic truth that he is willing to vocalize.
And since presidential elections in the US are won and lost at the margins, we can only hope that this message helps erode support for anti-constitutionalists, of which Trump is the leader. The only way the GOP will turn from its current path is if it loses repeatedly at the ballot box. But even if the party does not react in that way, it is to the country’s benefit that Trump not be returned to power.
Romney claimed his reason for retiring is because he doesn’t want to serve into his mid-80s. That’s his backhanded slap at Biden. And while some of his comments seem to imply he doesn’t want Trump to win again (particularly his negative assessment of No Labels, which you don’t quote here), he doesn’t go further to suggest that people should vote for the Democratic nominee in 2024.
Of course we all know the real reason for his decision: he doesn’t believe he can win the Republican primary again. If nothing else, it’s a sign of how thoroughly Trumpism has taken over the party. Utah was supposed to be the last bastion of anti-Trump Republicanism, and it’s what enabled him to win in the first place. I think part of what’s happened is that anti-Trump Republicans have increasingly left the party, so that the Trump cult is most of what remains. But I also have a sense that more and more “traditional” Republicans have gradually become more and more Trumpified, probably in large part because of the media they consume.
Of course Romney won’t say any of this out loud. It doesn’t look like he’s going to be one of those Republicans who becomes more forthright once he knows his political career is over.
He’s just thinking of his friends.
What Romney calls “some in MAGA world,” Hilary Clinton identified early on as “a basket of deplorables” which she generously limited to “half of Trump’s supporters.”
I’ll take things that will fall on deaf ears for $200, Alex.
@Kylopod:
But in a press conference, yesterday, he endorsed McConnell staying on as Speaker.
So take Romney’s statements with a large grain of political salt.
@Joe:
It’s forgotten that the context of her remarks was that she was making an argument that she believed many Trump supporters are reachable. She was saying basically, yes, there are a lot of them who are motivated by racism, homophobia, etc. (she made these remarks at an LGBT campaign event), but many others who have more legitimate grievances. Her “basket of deplorables” phrasing wasn’t the centerpiece of her argument, it was the backdrop.
I do agree she was being overly charitable to Trump supporters even then. But as I said in my previous comment, the party has become more radicalized and more Trumpified in the years since 2016, so however much she may have been underestimating the problem when she made those remarks, it’s become even less accurate over time.
I read the Atlantic article quickly. It may be in the forthcoming book but I wonder if Romney has any thoughts on whether he thinks the Mormon church and Mormons, in general, have been corrupted by the Trump populist wave. Because historically, Mormons, deep in their bones, know what is means to be persecuted. And by the Christian Nationalists in this country.
The Bushes sent leaks and signals that amounted to Biden endorsement in the 2020 election. They should been more explicit — a la the McCains — but at least they did that.
Romney’s political career is over. So he can tell Republicans they must actively vote against Trump in 2024. Until he does so, he is still “mincing words.”
Not only that, Romney is still taking shots at Biden. Until he stops this, Romney is still one of the Republican leaders “allowing the rot on the right to fester.”
So. Not that impressive yet. We’ll see where Sen. Romney is in October 2024.
@Scott:
As you suggest, the entire Atlantic piece is quite interesting, if you can access it.
@Kylopod: The media sold Trump lying about black crime stats and Latino immigrant crime as him “telling it like is.”
The same press people treated Hillary telling the truth about some whites’ racism and homophobia as a disastrous error.
That tells you all you need to know about the
liberalcorporate media.@DK:
Lies or using verboten statistics? 56% of homicides by 13% of the US population.
@DK: One thing I really can’t stand about the media is how they look for analogies based on the most superficial points of similarity. DeSantis’s recent statement that Trump supporters are “listless vessels” was compared with Hillary’s “basket of deplorables.” Yet the substance of the two remarks couldn’t be more different. DeSantis was complaining about the cultish devotion to Trump–entirely self-servingly, because DeSantis doesn’t mind Republican cultishness, even Trump cultishness, as long as it’s to his own benefit. Hillary wasn’t talking about cultishness per se, she was talking about bigotry against marginalized people. DeSantis isn’t against that–that’s the crowd he’s directly playing toward! His entire pitch is that he’s more the candidate of deplorables than Trump! But all the media hears is a candidate appearing to insult Trump supporters in some way, so it’s all the same.
TL:DR Pat Benatar, It’s a little too late
Paul L. just 13/50ed us.
For an explanation of 13/50, see here:
https://www.adl.org/resources/hate-symbol/1352-1390
@Scott:
The last Mormon “persecution” I know of was in the courts in the 1890s. They’ve had 120+ years to forget. It only took the rest of us 80 years to forget Nazis are the bad guys. Mormons are now mainstream, they are Christian Nationalists.
@gVOR10: Anti-Catholicism was once a major force in the United States. (The letters “KKK” were said to stand for the three groups they hated most–K!kes, Koons, and Katholics.) Who remembers that anymore? The evangelicals may privately believe the Papists are going to hell, but they avoid bringing it up, since their alliance with them is too useful at the moment. Practically the only time Biden’s Catholicism is mentioned is when conservatives say he can’t be a “real” Catholic if he supports abortion. And there are a lot of Catholics out there who would agree with that statement.
My sense is that Mormons today retain a slightly stronger image of themselves as an aggrieved religious minority than Catholics (certainly evangelicals are more explicitly anti-Mormon than they are anti-Catholic), but their religious conservatism is the more powerful determiner of their politics.
@Paul L.:
You mean 53% of homicides. And in Trump’s case, actual fake crime stats.
In your case, why the concern trolling about “13% of the population” but so unconcerned white males ages 15-45 make up ~15% of the population yet commit more crime, total violent crime, and domestic terror than any demographic?
Within FBI crime reporting, whites account for 57% of the population but 69% of all crime, including:
– 68% of rape, burgulary, vandalism, and vagrancy
– 70% of drug crimes
– 62% of aggravated assault
– 66% of fraud, motor vehicle theft, and crimes against children
– 81% of DUIs
– 71% of arson
– 65% of forgery
– 60% of embezzlement
– 44% of murder (that we know of; for example, the whites who lynched Ahmaud Arbery would have walked away scott free, protected by local racist law enforcement, had video not surfaced and his mother not pushed for justice)
The full extent of white criminality may be underestimated, and add to that the trail of death and destruction white folks’s colonialism, slavery, genocide, warmongering, serial killing, economic calamity, mass murder, police brutality, and mass shooting.
It would take American blacks until the end of time to catch up to the white male body count. Let’s talk about that. Is that verboten? How many police officers and white vigilantes have gotten away with murder? When are Bush and Cheney going to be charged with mass murder?
Oh.
The Republican Party chose the path of evil way back in the 60’s. They could have joined Democrats in supporting civil rights, but they cared more about winning White votes. It may surprise Mitt Romney that it’s come to this, but liberals have known all along what the Republican Party is.
@Paul L.:
What’s the racial breakdown of domestic terrorists who tried to overthrow the government on January 6?
@gVOR10:
Sure but the Nano second that the Evangelical right actually get’s there “heaven on earth” the first people they go after will be the Mormons. There are very few evangelicals that feel Mormons (oops sorry. Letter Day Saints) are actual Christians. I wouldn’t be surprised if they turn on the Catholics as well. There is a latter day Madame Defarge out there ready to purify God’s favorite nation on earth as soon as the country is in the hands of the righteous.
@Kylopod:
I would say that Romney should get some credit, so I’d put it that he doesn’t believe he wants to win the Republican primary in Utah again.
Whenever Romney’s name comes up, I’m reminded of this moment in time back in May 2021 when the rank & file of the UT GOP let Mitch know how they really thought of him and he asked an honest (and most pertinent) question back to them: “Aren’t you embarrassed?”
Every. Single. Time. I’ve heard a Republican politician speak in defense of Trump and their party’s fealty to TFG, this question rings in my ears.
[Note: it seems all my comments go into moderation these days. I think I might need to register on the site, but WordPress won’t let me. Advice would be welcomed.]
@Rick DeMent: It’s Hitler and Japan, honorary Aryans all over again. They can’t win the war without them, yet both realize they’ll eventually have to duke it out amongst each other once they eliminate the mutually hated undesirables.
An adjacent story on Christian Nationalists:
Tim Dunn is a Midland, TX oil billionaire and a far-right Christian Nationalist. Also a big backer of our adulterous, indicted felon, impeached, maybe soon to be convicted Attorney General Ken Paxton.
The Power Issue: Tim Dunn Is Pushing the Republican Party Into the Arms of God
Joe Straus was the Republican Speaker of the Texas House. And Jewish.
This is who these people are. Believe them.
@Scott: As a Christian, I will state unequivocally that only Christians in political power is exactly what we do not need. Based on what I’m seeing from the most vocal Christians in politics, we need the opposite.
I’m embarrassed and horrified, tbh.
@DK: I’m a practicing Episcopalian. Here is what our Presiding Bishop has to say about Christian Nationalism:
If Romney truly believed all of this, and he truly loved his country, and he had any backbone… his behavior over the past few years would have been different, and this wouldn’t be the first we were hearing of it.
I hope this is the earliest signs of a backbone forming, but I suspect it is literally the least he can do for his own self-absolution.
@Paul L.: Previously, I’ve seen 1350 and 1352, but you’re going all the way up to 1356. Have things changed? Are the 13 getting more murdery?
Are you sure you want to stick with 1356, and not upgrade to 1488?
@Gustopher: Game of Nazi telephone.
Romney is a loser. He proved that back in 2012 when he showed he wouldn’t even fight for himself, much less Republican voters or Americans in general. You don’t like Trump? Well, Trump winning the nomination and election in 2016 was a direct result of how big a loser Romney was in 2012. After McCain has quit his campaign in 2008 and Romney wouldn’t even stand to fight in 2012, people chose differently. You may hate Trump, but he fights and he doesn’t quit.
Romney would have been the epitome of what Charles Murray said of Republican presidents when shilling for Hillary back in 2016:
Trump proved to be another exception. Love him or hate him, Trump made a difference. So much so those who benefitted from the status quo in DC lost their minds.
So good riddance to bad rubbish with Romney, let his legacy be his cringe hotdog endorsement video.
@JKB: Trump was a loser in 2020. And unlike Romney, he was a sore loser who tried to alter the results to stay in power and still to this day won’t admit he lost.
I’m no fan of Romney, but your judging the worth of politicians based purely on whether they won or lost an election is not only shallow and childish, it doesn’t even make Trump look better than Romney based on that idiotic criteria alone.
@JKB: That is very likely the most forthright, honest and candid comment of yours I’ve ever read, and I appreciate that much of it.
If I’ve “lost my mind” it’s over the fact that people like you, Christians that I once considered fellow travellers, and fellow staunch supporters of democracy, would give up their support for both the teachings of Jesus and the principles of democracy just to see some planks in your own moral platform imposed on people who don’t share your religious beleifs.
It is embarrassing to me that I ever broke bread with the likes of you, that I pooh-poohed the idea that Christian Nationalists were a force to be reckoned with, that I waved off the idea that you would assault the capital to disrupt a core function of our democracy, and that you would endorse cries of foul play that were completely unfounded. That they would endorse cruelty, and wave off “love your enemies” with “that doesn’t work any more”. For the sake of putting your personal beliefs into law.
I’m not a “power in DC” so you may not be addressing me, but if you want to say I’ve lost my mind, so be it. You’ve lost your way.
@Kylopod: Thanx for that. I pretty much knew what the racist pos was trying to say, but wasn’t aware of the particulars. It’s nice to know my instincts haven’t been dulled by the trump years.
Brave, brave, brave, brave Sir Romney!
I remember the same brave Sir Romney turning tail and fleeing from the state supported health coverage initiative he championed in Massachusetts.
Holding moral positions does extract a price but Romney has always tried to minimize personal cost. So, run away again brave Sir Romney!
Dang, and one of his offspring is still feeding from the trough of the deranged QOP. Any comments about your dad’s opinion of the party, Ronna Romney McDaniel? Why are you still there?
You know, so does the little rat-like chihuahua who lives down the street. It’ll bark and charge and snarl at anything in the most mindless and automatic way imaginable. Laughable too. And yes, I suppose it does remind me of Trump.
The most important thing to know about Trump hasn’t changed one bit since the 1980’s: above all else, he’s a f*cking moron.
@Gustopher: As I posted in today’s forum,”Whenever I hear how upright and brave Romney is criticizing Republicans I think of the photo of him having dinner with a gloating Trump.”
Oh brother, trump never saw a fight he couldn’t pay a lawyer to take it on for him. trump is a colossal loser. A WATB who just won’t shut up about how he is the most persecuted person in the history of persons (that Jesus guy was a piker). An avowed sexual predator (“when you’re famous they let you,)” and supposed billionaire (bankrupted 6 times) who rattles his begging cup at every opportunity.
And you are one of the suckers filling it for him.
@JKB:
I don’t know how this myth that Trump is a fighter got started, because if there’s one thing Trump is not, it’s a fighter. He even said it himself: “I whine and I whine till I get what I want.”
Trump is a coward. C-O-W-A-R-D. He doesn’t fight. Ever. He hires or incites other people to fight for him and then sits back and gloats over the carnage.
@DK:
By criticizing Benito and taking shots at Biden, he’s implying Biden is an even worse choice. So he’s propping up El Cheeto contrary to his stated intent.
Fun detail:
2/3 of all violent crime [including murder] in this country is white-on-white crime.
That’s from those noted fabulists working at the US Bureau of Prisons. One search and the Excel file breaking out all manner of crime by general category and year and offender / recipient race is able to be downloaded.
But hey, facts don’t fit the racist Republican narrative, so here’s the made-up bullsh1t that they use because it feels true. These are the same Republicans who whine about fake trophies to make little kids feel better… when here’s a fake thing to make grown men feel better.
@CSK:
That’s just his habit of inventing new meanings for ordinary words, like the way he calls former associates who turn on him “flippers” while still maintaining that he’s totally innocent.
But as for his being weak–that’s a characteristic of all so-called “strongmen.” None of them are ever truly strong people. They’re the most slimy, weak, pathetic cowards ever to walk the earth. They just overcompensate by attempting to project the image of strength, and they succeed in appearing genuinely strong to absolutely no one except the most puerile and insecurely masculine individuals in the populace who make up the bulk of these figures’ supporters.
@JKB:
Trump quit on multiple marriage and businesses and has left a trail of bankrupt and abandoned allies, businesses, contractors and associates.
Pol Pot and Stalin also “made a difference.” So I fully agree that multiply-indicted daughter-groomer Trump “made a difference” with his hatemongering bigotry, record job loss from COVID outcomes he worsened via ignorance and incompetence, his forced birth judges, Jan 6. insurrection, and sore loser election les, and record corprare welfare, record deficits, failed immigration cruelty, and climate change denial.
Among those differences are Arizona how having Democrats in all major statewide offices, and Republicans having disastrously lackluster 2022 midterm results. So thanks Trump, for that.
@Kylopod:
It’s fascinating how some people can be perceived by others as totally different from what they are. Her fans saw Sarah Palin as a stalwart and a workaholic, when in fact she was a bone-lazy quitter. Same with Trump. He’s the exact opposite of what his minions think he is: He’s an adulterous bigot, a negligent father, a crook, and a malevolent churl.
I think the Palin and Trump fans merged their identities with her and him respectively. They were Palin/Trump; she/he was them.
@CSK: Honestly, the only thing about Trump’s rise that surprised me was realizing just how many people are at the bone simplest level of gullibility. Huge numbers. Trump’s main con consists of saying, “I know taxes better than anyone, so I can fix taxes. It will be the greatest fix!”, or “I know how to do deals better than anyone and therefore I can cut a deal with Putin or Kim or Xi. It will be the greatest deal!” And so many people, including ones I thought of as intelligent and sensible, just accepted it. That’s all it took!
@DK:
More white men are killed by Law Enforcement than black men.
And BLM debunks this with per capita deaths by police. You just did the opposite.
@Michael Reynolds:
I counter your Whataboutism with the Wichita Massacre/Wichita Horror Whataboutism.
Remember the convicted felon seditionist Proud Boy White supremacist far-right neo-fascist Domestic terrorist activist Mastermind of J6 Enrique Tarrio is Hispanic.
What was the race of the domestic terrorist Republican baseball insurrection shooter James Thomas Hodgkinson?
@CSK:
I think deep down, they all know the truth.
Take Trump’s narcissism, to begin with. One of the biggest misconceptions about narcissists is that they are people who love themselves. They are not. A narcissist is a person who hates themselves, and who compensates for this deep self-loathing by speaking about themselves to anyone within earshot in the most grandiose terms. People who truly love themselves don’t feel the need to behave in that way.
Nobody hates Donald Trump more than Donald Trump.
Similarly, whenever a man behaves in a cartoonishly over-the-top alpha-male, chest-beating manner, you know for a fact the man views himself as a pussy. If such a man becomes an actual political leader, his support is going to come most forcefully from other men with those characteristics who live vicariously through him. They are acting out their own insecurities. It isn’t true delusion, it’s willful self-deception by people desperate to live in a fantasy world because they can’t accept what they know is the reality of themselves.
In mocking and ridiculing people like this, in no way am I trivializing the danger they pose. These are some of the most dangerous people around. They’re harmful because they have such a toxic relationship with their own self-image, in which they feel the need to do harm as a coping mechanism for their own self-hatred.
The last dozen or more posts focus on debunking Paul L, not the putative thread topic.
DNFTT.
@MarkedMan:
Don’t forget: “I know more about ISIS than the generals” or “I know more about trade than anybody” and “I know more about renewables than anybody on earth” and “Nobody know about construction than I do” and bla, bla, bla. The list is endless.
After his failure to repeal and replace Obamacare during his first 100 days in office, as he promised: “Nobody knew health care would be so hard.”
@Kylopod:
I agree, but do you think Trump has sufficient self-awareness to hate himself? I think he enjoys being cruel, partially because he wanted desperately to be part of the Manhattan haut monde, and they rejected him. Now he’s getting his revenge.
@Paul L.:
You think you’ve countered me by finding a criminal case from 23 years ago? Does your Google not work any better than that? Or was that really all you could come up with? And to cite random Black murder as a counter to the first ever failure to have a peaceful transfer of power in American history?
Why don’t you Google up the races of financial fraud? Lot of Black people at Enron? Lot of Black bankers, were there, causing the 2008 meltdown? Lot of Black cops choking White criminals to death on Minneapolis streets?
Moron.
@charontwo:
It’s not feeding trolls, this particular moron may not be the only moron who reads comments. Some may actually be thinking – and I use the term loosely – that Paul is making a good point. When Paul has his White Power brothers over to drink any beer but Bud Light he shows them his brilliant comments and they all haw haw haw, showed them libruls, haw haw.
It’s important to call out racists, everywhere, every time.
I think I can best lay down the MAGA conundrum with a Benito joke:
Q: Who is the poor man’s Donald Trump?
A: Donald Trump.
@charontwo: I think no one cares about what Mitt Romney says in an interview with The Atlantic until he backs it up with action, so all that’s left is to play with the trolls.
@charontwo:
I can’t speak for the others. But I was the first to respond to him in this thread, and I didn’t “debunk,” I just let people know he was promoting a white-supremacist canard, and I posted an outside link that explains and summarizes what it it is.
@Paul L.:
I agree, white men are a problem and shouldn’t have unfettered access to guns.
What do you think Hispanic is? It’s not a monolith, it’s a broad collection of different identities and skin tones, under a constant pressure to be more White. In a world that often sees things in Black and White, a lot of light brown people cling to the notion of Whiteness to not be lumped in with Black.
There’s a really nuanced and interesting story behind the light brown White Nationalists, from Tarrio to Tiny Toes to Ian Mile Cheong to Andy Ngo (that’s pronounced non-governmental organization), which goes back to attitudes of Colonialism, White Man’s Burden, Civilizing The Natives, Ableism*, etc. But I don’t think it’s one you’re really up to talking about.
It’s also worth noting that many of the 13% are of mixed ancestry, the product of slave owners raping the people they enslaved. If we were to assume that they are extra violent (a bullshit assumption), I think we would have to question whether that inherent violence comes from their African ancestors, or the slave owners (the most recent distinct group in their ancestry that was demonstrated to be capable of routine violence)
——
*: “those backwards people are incapable of ruling themselves” really has an ableist mindset imposed onto racial groups, and ends up reinforcing the belief that disabled and poor people are worth less than successful, able bodied people.
It’s kind of a shame that the Darwinism that the right believes in is Social Darwinism.
I enjoyed DK’s takedown and was going to add in that if we are going to categorize and distill people down to their race, ethnicity and geographical regions, then the White Southerner is arguably the most depraved savages we have in US history, with unmatched barbarism going on for centuries and still continuing on in some forms to today despite all attempts to bring advanced civilization to them. (Do I believe this? Of course not, but it is a perfect example of the reductive thinking of a racist.)
But I didn’t go there because if there is enough engagement with a shithead racist, even tangentially, it’s going to attract more shithead racists to the site. It’s annoying when people feed a troll, but feeding a racist is much worse as it really can spell the end of a blog comment section. Trying to refute a shithead racist’s moronic arguments with reason is like trying to chase away the pigeons who shit all over your car by throwing chunks of bread at them.
@CSK:
In the same way that the great but troubled Joan Crawford has come to be known as the textbook American case of borderline personality disorder, Trump is the textbook case for narcissistic personality disorder. Textbook.
The insecurity and nagging desire for daddy’s approval may be buried deepy within his subconscious beneath 77 years of ego. But I’d bet that Trump at his core in the dark of the night is fatally insecure and self-loathing. There’s a reason for those incoherent, raging 3am Truth Social (née Twitter) meltdowns.
I don’t know if Kylopod has a degree in psychology, or has studied the subject, or is just a keen observer of human nature, but the comment is likely spot on.
@Paul L.:
And what race were almost all of those killer law enforcement officers?
Same race as gruesome cannibalistic serial killer Jeffrey Dahmer and mass murdering domestic terrorist Tim McVeigh.
Most people of all backrounds — white, black, white Hispanics, Afro-Latino, multiracial, all variants of Asian, Middle Eastern, indigenous, etc — are decent, law-abiding people. Take away unserious misdemeanors and victimless offenses, and the amount of criminals in every demo is negligible.
But if instead of recognizing that, human trashbags like you and Trump wish to divide us by race, smear blacks and/or Latinos, and start trading examples of the worst and most depraved thugs in US history based on nonwhite vs. white, you will run out of names far, faaaaarrrrr sooner than I, homeboy. Lol
@DK:
Here’s a definition from the Mayo Clinic
The general description, plus the list of symptoms, correlate bigly with our beloathed* Benito El Cheeto. Here’s a small sampling:
And that’s just the top five.
*Yes, that’s a real word.
@Paul L.:
Have you ever looked at the census results? Look at Corpus Christi for example (I’m using that as you’ve claimed to live somewhat near in the past). The city is both 71.9% white AND 64.2% Hispanic…
@MarkedMan:
Today, a MAGA told me Trump did not solve the decades-long border problem because Democrats and “establishment RINO Republicans” would not give him the money to “build the wall.”
When I pointed out that Trump repeatedly insisted Mexico would pay for his useless wall, I was called an “ignorant Marxist progressive.”
I was insulted. I’m often ignorant, but I am definitely not a progressive.
Paul L thinks about Republicans and immediately thinks the subject is about race. This is a window into the collective abyss of the Tea Party/MAGAts. If the Constitution means a black man can be POTUS they have no use for it, not anymore than the white southerners of the late 19th century had when they chased the blacks out of every office with violence. It’s not new, and Trump is only a symptom.
@Gustopher:
I agree, but the use of tokenism by extreme right groups also needs to be taken into account. I don’t think most Proud Boys are fully accepting of people who look like Tarrio, they just find him useful as a shield against mainstream society recognizing what they really are. That’s why Paul L. invoked it.
@Matt:
Yes. The term “majority-minority” is often applied to areas that are in fact majority white, but only minority white non-Hispanic. Several states fall in that category–Maryland, Texas, New Mexico, California. Hawaii is the only state that is majority nonwhite.
Of course the definition of whiteness isn’t static everywhere. Many people from Latin America have had the experience of being considered white in their home country, but brown in the United States.
@Kathy: I was studying for my stare licensing exam in late 2015 and happened across the DSM-IV diagnostic criteria for narcissistic personality disorder (we were still resisting 2013’s updated DSM-V).
I sent it to some 1st year students in my study group with a note that read (paraphrasing): “When you start interning and diagnosing, you will very rarely meet anyone who fits enough criteria to be diagnosed with a personality disorder. Instead, most times you will code ‘narcissistic traits’ or ‘borderline traits’ or ‘antisocial traits’ etc. With the usual caveats about diagnosing from afar, watch Donald Trump, the first person I’ve ever observed who appears to fit every single symptom criteria for NPD. This is exceedingly rare. This kind of exception proves the rule: before branding clts as narcissists or sociopaths, we should be conservative in diagnosis.”
I wanted to add “…and not conservative in politics.” But I was already at the boundary.
@Gustopher:
I’m often surprised to find people who don’t know Afro-Latinos and black Hispanics exist in large numbers, at least 6+ million Americans.
@DK:
Its almost like his mugshot should be incorporated in the next revision of the DSM.
Maybe they could rename the disorder after him, trumpian personality disorder. It’s the best disorder, manypeoplesaythat.
@Kylopod: real reasons appear to be rather partisan political opposition a priori Just So assertions given objective data rather say commanding lead. Of course as a heathen unless he converts fully to the true religion, nothing he does can be assigned any value.
@Kathy: now this has panache.
@Argon:
I couldn’t believe through the whole primary and general election he was able to get away with pretending Romneycare never happened, or had nothing to do with him. And I loved his visit to London during the Olympics without acknowledging his wife was down the road in the Olympics. Presumably for fear her dancing horse would be seen as unmanly.
I’m listening to talking heads quoting Romney as saying his GOP colleagues wouldn’t vote against Trump for fear of all the threats of violence they got. I’m wondering how many threats AOC or Ilhan Omar get, and then get on with their jobs.
@Kylopod:
No, it really isn’t. If you read the interview, Romney is keenly aware that he might not have much time left. Men in his family tend to die suddenly in their 70’s and 80’s. And he doesn’t want to spend his last years wrestling a pig.
Mormons are far more mainstream conservative. Pro-immigration. Pro-religious freedom They mostly represent the last remnant of the sensible wing of the GOP.
Honestly, some of the comments here are depressing. Romney is one of the few decent Republicans left, had the courage to vote for impeachment and has bee saying, now more forcefully, what everyone has wanted Republicans to be saying for the last eight years. And it’s still not good enough.
@Hal_10000: I often wonder what would’ve happened if Romney had beat Obama in 2012. I don’t think we would’ve gotten Trump. As much as I disliked the Republican “platform”, pre-Trump, I don’t think Trump would’ve attempted to primary an incumbent Republican. Either Hillary OR Romney would’ve been a better President for 2016, at that point, as far as when Covid hit. Biden probably wouldn’t have run if Trump wasn’t President, he’d be enjoying his retirement and we would probably have never heard the term “Hunter’s Dick Pics”.
I almost want to skip over to THAT timeline, because this one is fucking nuts.
@DK: I suspect that most white folks lump the Afro-Latinos under Black. For instance, Miles Morales, the Black Spider-man and star of several very popular animated movies, is Afro-Latino.
There are relatively few Afro-Latinos in White Nationalist groups.
@Kylopod:
LOL Quoting the Domestic Terrorist Hate group the ADL.
@Matt:
Reminds me the the DOJ can’t separate Whites and Hispanics for Gun crimes because “If You Compare White Populations, We Have The Same Murder Rate As Belgium”
Show your work
Wiki: Corpus Christi racial composition as of 2020
White (NH) 96,019 30.21%
Black or African American (NH) 12,419 3.91%
Native American or Alaska Native (NH) 847 0.27%
Asian (NH) 7,519 2.37%
Pacific Islander (NH) 268 0.08%
Some Other Race (NH) 1,144 0.36%
Mixed/Multi-Racial (NH) 6,657 2.09%
Hispanic or Latino 192,990 60.71%
@Gustopher:
Let us start with the common sense laws of complete gun registration (Universal Background Checks) and confiscation (Mandatory Gun Buybacks) for registered Democrats or anyone using SNRI/SSRI or other antidepressants.
Release the Nashville shooter’s manifesto for more information on those groups.
@CSK:
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2023/11/mitt-romney-retiring-senate-trump-mcconnell/675306/?utm_source=copy-link&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share
@Hal_10000:
Nah, it’s not good enough. Opposing Trump is the bare minimum. Romney doesn’t get brownie points for basic decency.
What people wanted Romney to do is what Bush did and McCain’s widow did: tell Americans to vote for Trump’s opponent. Anything less…thanks. But also: meh. Golf clap.
No, we are not going to shower some born-rich corporate shill with praise for the bare minimum. Mitt will be fine no matter what happens lol. I’m exponentially more worried about the families he evicted than about him.
@Paul L.:
When did Belgium contribute to the deaths of a million Middle Easterners this century, like the rich white men who run America did with the Republicans’ Iraq misadventure?
@Paul L.:
Since you seem to know what is in the manifesto, why don’t you release it?
If you want to make unfounded assumptions about the Nashville shooters motives, let’s start putting some facts on the table:
– they were trans
– they went to the school
– the school is a religious school (so likely not very supportive of queer students)
– the school had a pedophile problem while they were a student, with an administrator molesting students.
– trans folks also are being attacked by the religious right
Seems like there are plenty of plausible motives for targeting the school during a killing spree.
As far as universal background checks — absolutely, across the board.
Restricting guns for people getting treatment for mental health issues is a thorny issue, though, as it would discourage people from getting the help they need. Definitely has to be a more nuanced approach, as generally a person who needs help and isn’t getting it is going to be more dangerous than someone who is getting help. Plus, your real worry is the psychotic folks not the depressed folks.
Meanwhile, one of the first acts of the Republicans during the Trump administration was to make it easier for the mentally ill to get guns.
Per the rest of your racist diatribes: you’re a disgusting excuse for a human being. It was better when you kept your racism thinly veiled.
Charles Manson wanted a race war.
Who knew he should have just joined the Birch Society and waited 50 years.
@Gustopher:
Define “mental health issues.” ADHD? When people hear the phrase they are usually thinking of schizophrenia and, sometimes, bipolar disorder. And even there, it’s important to understand that the vast majority of people with those disorders are not violent. Indeed, the biggest risk of giving such a person a gun is that they might shoot themselves, which is a much greater risk–by many orders of magnitude–than that they will shoot someone else, let alone a group of people.
@DK:
Those weapons were issued by the US Government and some are illegal for US citizens to own.
I thought only authorized Government personnel should be able to have “weapons of war” and exempt for gun laws.
@Kylopod:
Using SNRI/SSRI or other antidepressants is a mental health issue? Like 25%+ of women.
@Paul L.: whatever man. I’m just glad to see there are rapists you won’t try to defend with your comment above. Baby steps to being a decent human.
@Paul L.: I prefer to get the numbers straight from the source.
https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/corpuschristicitytexas/PST045222
Having lived in the area for many years I can confirm that a whole lot of people identify as both white and hispanic…