Senator Al Franken
A ruling by the Minnesota Supreme Court has all but officially made Al Franken the winner in the Senate recount.
A state Supreme Court ruling Wednesday narrowed the options available for Sen. Norm Coleman to erase a slim lead held by DFLer Al Franken in the Minnesota election dispute, and Coleman’s campaign threatened a court battle that could leave the Senate seat vacant for a month.
The Supreme Court denied a bid by the Coleman campaign to prevent local and state canvassing boards from tallying votes that the incumbent says may have been counted twice. Most of the votes at issue are from DFL strongholds. The justices said the campaign’s claim of double-counted ballots is better resolved in a court hearing where evidence can be presented, instead of by canvassing boards.
I have no opinion on the merits of the ruling but this leaves Coleman’s last recourse as a challenge which, as Eric Kleefeld puts it, has a “burden of proof that heavily favors the certified winner.” Unless Coleman can prove that ballots were in fact counted twice — and I have no idea how he’d do that — Franken will be the winner. Nate Silver notes that, “while it is nearly guaranteed that there were at least some instances of double-counting, the same discrepancies could be explained by other phenomena, an Coleman’s case relied on what might could best be described as circumstantial evidence.” (Scott Johnson provides additional background on the statutory law.)
As I’ve noted since this farce began, the race is a tie and none of us knows whether Coleman or Franken truly got more legitimate votes. Given that Coleman “won” on the initial count, though, his supporters will quite reasonably feel as if the election was stolen from them in a bizarre, dubious process.
We have to have a better system than this.
Given that Coleman “won†on the initial count, though, his supporters will quite reasonably feel as if the election was stolen from them in a bizarre, dubious process.
Substitute “Coleman” for “Gore.” We’ve seen this before.
Except, of course, that Bush won the intial count, the second count, and the final count. But, yes, the process of recounting and contesting and judging rendered a close election into a stolen one for about half the country.
As I say, the process itself is broken. Once you start having post hoc human judgment — by interested actors, no less — people lose confidence.
Well, you’re both correct, James, and I begin to suspect that what Loser is talking about is a new method for winning elections cooked up by Democrats. Right, Loser?
(mumble)
Can anyone point to national offices being overturned by recount before 2000? Can anyone remember even such challenges happening?
Perhaps what we’re dealing with isn’t that the systems were deficient all along, it’s that they were sufficient for honest people. Clearly, the system wasn’t designed for Al Gore and Al Franken.
Keep counting until you get the desired result and then declare the recounts officially over.
Hard to feel good about this no matter how it turns out, but what Al Franken has done (and what Al Gore tried to do) to win does not bode well for the future of representative democracy. Throw in the recent nepotism and the appointed aristocracy to hasten our demise.
More likely they were decided in a back room somewhere. (Merry Christmas)
C’mon, James. You know darn well that if the situation had been reversed, Coleman would’ve been lauding how fair the process was. This is precisely why states have in place procedures for dealing with close elections. Granted, maybe there could be a better way to do this, but I wouldn’t say what’s transpired in Minnesota has been outrageous or out of line. In fact, I think the Canvassing Board has dealt with the matter quite transparently, and you already know courts in general are reluctant to get too involved in these decisions, preferring instead to leave political questions to the political actors.
How about robots programmed by “interested” programmers, like Theodore’s bots on Word Girl? Seriously, I’m not sure how you get around human judgment in any case. I do agree that people will lose confidence to some degree, but I just don’t see a way around human judgment at some point.
Yes, people in general and conservatives in particular have always been totally honest and above-board and never been nasty or contested elections. Only those dirty liberals do that. And if it didn’t happen before 2000, well, that must be proof that the process is broken. Up till then, elections were fair and clean with fairies and magic ponies. Please.
Yeah, contesting an election is so much more dangerous to democracy, than, say, arrogating so-called Unitary Executive powers to torture, or abuse Executive Orders to get around Congress, or surveil Americans unlawfully. Those are just minor quibbles; but contesting an election, boy, that’s just unheard of.
Bitsy, Chuck, perhaps the larger argument James makes is that if the process is indeed broken, it can’t be broken just for Franken/Coleman, but also for Bush/Gore. If people lose confidence because of “human judgment,” as James says, then it must be the same for both cases and elections in general. You can’t argue that the Franken/Coleman race is a farce, but that Bush/Gore was decided rightly. In both cases you still have people making arguably unpopular decisions. But you two seem to want it both ways–though I’m not surprised.
What’s undemocratic or dangerous about contesting an election? It strikes me that the opposite would be the dangerous condition – not allowing announced election results to be examined.
The problem is the way votes are tallied, not requiring accountability.
Whoever wins the Minnesota Senate race is going to be the legitimate winner. The system worked. The race was close and every effort was made to count every single ballot.
This is unlike Florida in 2000 when the Republican machine did everything in its power to prevent ballots from being counted. The voters were not respected by the Gore people either as he never championed the position that every single vote in the state needed to be counted. It was a fiasco and the winner was eventually decided by five conservative republicans on the US Supreme Court. This made the Bush presidency illegitimate.
The key is in respecting the voters and doing whatever is humanly possible to discern the will of of the voter on each ballot cast. Sometimes it is easy to do, sometimes it is not so easy. But that is what makes a government or an elected official legitimate in the eyes of the people.
Merry Christmas from the warmth of Hawaii
The process is indeed mess, but I’m more stunned that the great State of Minnesota has now seen fit to elect a wrestler and a B grade comedian to serious public office. Now THAT’s a broken process.
It must be the cold air.
I await with interest your listing of where they’ve not been so, but I won’t held my breath.
Of course! And Gore nearly got away with it, too.
Apparently, they’ve figured out what they did wrong, that time, and improved on the process.
Is there a sense that the situation is worse than it has been in the past? If so, it might be interesting to think of some reasons for it.
One reason might be that polling and information flow has improved, which allows politicians to triangulate better. This results in closer elections, overall, which results in more recounts, especially very close ones. All of which, obviously, work towards revealing how badly the system is broken.
Funny how Republicans win on election day, but Democrats seem to win a recount. Wonder why that is? Cheating anyone? Someone should string Frankenstein up.
Ummm no;
Sorry, I’m not buying that one. What is the added info flow going to do? It’s going to move public opinion, not the vote count.
While the election was essentially a tie, with the recount probably being a more deliberate, and therefore accurate, process, I’m just glad Coleman’s out. Coleman’s wrong on Iraq, Social Security, gays, abortion, stem cells, and drugs. Franken has better values than that.
This is why every state should have run-off elections for this type of thing. Compare the farce that this has become with the now-settled race between Saxby Chambliss and the other guy in Georgia.
To quote Gomer Pyle…. SURPRISE! SURPRISE! SURPRISE!??
Democrat mantra …Keep countin’ ’til you win!
Illinois should have elected “BOZO The Clown” when they had the chance!
OH Well, we had Garfield Goose “The King of the United States”!![lol]
Bizarre and dubious? How so? Do you advocate no recounts? And for you to invoke Florida? Well perhaps you liked that process because the S.Ct. stopped the recount. Now, there is no doubt that not all ballots are counted election day (military, absentee, misplaced, challenged)-but like a typical conservative-instead of promoting a solution you only find a way to be critical. Like I always say =it depends on whose ox is being gored.
“with the recount probably being a more deliberate, and therefore accurate, process”
Wow!! From the reports I’ve seen, that’s like calling sausage making “the fine art of carvery.”
Except of course, that had there been a real re-count, Gore would have won. As I recall (admittedly, my memory is a little sketchy) Gore won Florida (if they had done a recount of the complete state, it would have shown that)(as per the NYT) Gore’s mistake in the lawsuits that followed, was to ask for recounts only in the Dem leaning districts.
Yeah, Bit, they figured out that they need to count ALL the votes, What a concept, eh?
You can breathe again Bit, you are example #1.
Zelsdorf: Yes, I do wonder how it is, that when they actually count the ballots, Republicans always lose… Any body else detect a pattern here?
Floyd, are you even listening to yourself? Once you you get what ya want, STOP!!!
Indeed Bit, because as ggir said:
Let us get real: No matter what happens, somebody is going to b*tch. What do we do? As one who did not like the results in Georgia, I can not argue with them. Chambliss won.
Here’s what Wikipedia says:
So, the only way Gore would have won would have been to illegally count ballots.
JJ: Amazing how selective you are. The media consortium counted the ballots seven different ways. Gore won 4, Bush 3. The broadest manner, as mandated by the Florida S.Ct. in determining voting intent, had Gore winning. And this has nothing to do with butterfly ballots-there there was no issue of intent since the ballots were clearly marked for Buchanan. And you totally are misinformed on over-votes. Those are ballots that carried two markings for the same candidate and were disqualified. Under the voter intent law, those votes should have been counted. So in fact it is accurate to say Gore would have won Fl if but for the US S.Ct. intervention. As to you, it is shameful how you misinform readers.