Thursday’s Forum
Steven L. Taylor
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Thursday, August 8, 2024
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46 comments
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About Steven L. Taylor
Steven L. Taylor is a retired Professor of Political Science and former College of Arts and Sciences Dean. His main areas of expertise include parties, elections, and the institutional design of democracies. His most recent book is the co-authored
A Different Democracy: American Government in a 31-Country Perspective. He earned his Ph.D. from the University of Texas and his BA from the University of California, Irvine. He has been blogging since 2003 (originally at the now defunct Poliblog).
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Toq uote Adam Savage: There’s your problem!
The link shows wage growth between 1979 and 2023.
Further down, there’s this: “If we take out the pandemic-era’s period of strong wage growth for low-wage workers, this figure drops to 0.1% between 1979 and 2019. By contrast, real wages boomed at an annualized rate of 2.9% over the pandemic, outpacing wage growth in the previous 40 years combined.”
And this: “A similar trend of slow wage growth can be seen across all other income groups apart from the highest income earners. This has contributed to the middle-class—those falling between the lowest and highest income quintiles—to shrink from 61% of the population in 1971 to 51% in 2023.”
I’d like to see how wage “growth” in the US compares to other countries, especially high income countries like Japan, Canada, and most of the EU.
So this is the Walz quote that the right is attacking hoim with:
“I spent 25 years in the Army and I hunt. I’ve been voting for common sense legislation that protects the Second Amendment, but we can do background checks. We can research the impacts of gun violence. We can make sure those weapons of war, that I carried in war, are only carried in war,” Walz said in his speech, aiming toward voters who don’t want guns on the streets.
There are lots of military vets here, I’m wondering what they think of this quote?
If there is one thing the GOP knows how to do it’s attack, and even if it isn’t valid, use it to smaer their opponents.
@Lucysfootball: This is one of those situations where the speechwriter was searching for a particular cadence and it now requires explanation.
“…that I carried in war”–in this context and knowing his background–obviously means “carried for wartime purposes” (i.e., training/National Guard).
Of course they are going to glom onto this, they have nothing else.
Actually, I thought of a “perfect” comeback line for Walz the next time the Cat Lady tries the “Stolen Valor” line: “I would’ve gone to Iraq, but my doctor told me that if I did, my bone spurs would cripple me.” To the Harris-Vance campaign: Get in touch with me and I’ll tell you where to send the royalty check.
@Lucysfootball: Yeah. This morning the RW blogosphere is full of Tampon Timmy the draft dodger. It’s all they’ve got.
I think many vets are touchy about the idea of stolen valor. Claiming more risk than they actually experienced. OTOH, vets also know that in war not everyone is carrying a gun on the front lines. MY understanding is that Walz unit was deployed overseas during the Iraq war during that war but not in Iraq while he was still in the Guard. So he did carry his weapons during a war, just not in an active war zone. I would say that he is walking a line here that he doesnt really need to do and some people will be irritated. His record is good enough. Maybe say something like ” I carried and trained people on the same arms that we used during war, the same ones I carried on deployment.” Assuming he carried arms on deployment. If not leave out last clause. (I served during the Vietnam war but did not deploy there so I learned long ago not to declare myself a Viet nam vet.)
If you check out the VFW rules even they are a bit mixed up. To join the VFW you must have deployed in a foreign country where there was active war. However, if you spend 30 or 60 days in S Korea, you also qualify.
Steve
@steve: I think switching it to simply, “the same type of gun I carried as a soldier” is simple and accurate.
Chicago White Sox 28-89, fire manager Pedro Grifol.
Damn! Never saw that coming!
I’ll just leave this here. Trump has some ‘splainin’ to do.
https://youtu.be/SmpQXRRTwBo?si=UATr_XVRG5fdcwui
@Mister Bluster:
Yeah. Blame it on the curse of the Black Sox.
@steve:
The US commitment to Vietnam were at least 5 rear echelon troops for every soldier carrying a gun in the field.
Rear echelon troops are important. The men at the front line need strong logistical support and medical aid.
@gVOR10:..draft dodger…
Governor Walz was born in April, 1964. He would have been 8 years old in January of 1973 when the draft ended.
Not that facts mean anything to the supporters of private citizen, convicted felon, mature Republican presidential candidate Donny ‘Bone Spurs”.
Since its a slow day here, I’ ll throw out some more Get Smart humor.
Smart and The Chief are meeting with a woman in the chief’s office-
Maxwell Smart- “Shrew determined men trying to get control of this country for years.”
The Republicans- “You men the Republicans.”
You can find this scene less than one minute into this video.
Welp, I now own a tuxedo. Had it fitted yesterday, which involved standing in front of the dreaded angled mirrors. Imagine the 007 of your choice wearing a tuxedo. Now imagine Danny DeVito as The Penguin. Find the mid-point between those two.
In a couple months we are taking the Queen Mary 2 across the Atlantic, NYC to Southampton. They are serious about the dressing for dinner thing. I passed on the patent leather shoes, but I am going to have to figure out how to tie a bowtie. Which is what YouTube is for.
A Cunard concierge reached out to ask what booze, off a limited list, they should place in our stateroom. Not an impressive list, really, the Bourbons available are Jack, Jim and Makers. Sure, Makers is good, but it’s no Four Roses single barrel. And not a single Islay or Skye scotch. Still, Glenfiddich is a good Speyside though they don’t tell you its age. I was reassured to learn that both the casino and the cigar bar will be open throughout the voyage.
However, in a bit of bad timing, I’m reading Erik Larsen’s book about the Lusitania. Hopefully the U-Boat threat is somewhat reduced.
The attempted “Swift Boat-ing” of Walz has begun.
It’s not just inflating a clumsy line in a speech from a molehill to a mountain, they’re also asserting he is lying about being a Command Sergeant Major (which he isn’t, MN Army National Guard has confirmed he was frocked at that rank and then retired as a Master Sergeant because he hadn’t completed the professional military education requirement for CSM), and also that he retired when he did specifically to avoid deployment to Iraq (he didn’t, he had filed to run for Congress in February 2005, he retired in May 2005, and his unit was not notified of mobilization until July 2005).
All of this was brought up during his first run for Governor in 2018, it didn’t go anywhere then because it’s all bullshit, but now there’s a nationwide audience so the MAGA morons are trying to bring it all up again.
It won’t stick any more now than it did then.
Vance may have gone to Iraq, but he was still a REMF POG. At least Walz held a combat arms MOS.
My ex/sons’ mom was in the Navy Nurse Corp for 4 years. She did one deployment overseas, working at a hospital within a safe zone within a friendly country adjacent to a country we were waging war in. As was policy and protocol, she did carry a sidearm while moving around the base. She treated various folks who were serving within the war zone, including soldiers injured in combat but more often various “contractors” suffering one malady or another. I believe she received certain medals for this.
However, it appears, were she to talk about it (she tends not), it’d be “stolen valor” since she never actually stepped foot in enemy territory.
Fish these guys.
@DeD: A guy doing his Alvin the Chipmunk impersonation to drone on too long building up a clip of Trump being Trump, i.e. trying to glom on to whatever credit he can get for someone else’s actions. I’ll give it a “meh…” for impact on undecideds who haven’t even started looking at who’s running yet.
Fishing season isn’t over, the pennant race is just warming up, lots of really ‘pornint stuff happening. Check with me closer to Halloween.
*And I don’t fish or watch baseball.
For every actual combat vet there are 5 guys pretending to be actual combat vets. For Seal Team Six the ratio is more like 1:100. These men are scum. Real soldiers, and real men more generally, tend to take less credit than they are owed. My father has a bronze star from Vietnam, where he did two tours, which he passes off as a stroll through the jungle to get his ticket punched. There’s some truth to it, as his first assignment was skippering a boat in Quy Nhon harbor, and his second was with Army intelligence looking into corruption in Saigon. He did in fact shoot someone he is not 100% sure was Vietcong, not something that ever sat right with him.
It is inconceivable to me that CWO Reynolds would ever, in a million years, pretend to have been in serious combat with an outfit like special forces or the 101st airborne. Real soldiers don’t do that. Nor do real men.
I was in a support role during the initial 2003 combat in Iraq. I thought a lot about needing to shoot someone or getting shot at, but the closest I came was when my vehicle was hit by enemy fire. It was just a single round that was probably not even aimed specifically at us. I guess it could have been in one of our bodies instead, but I don’t feel like I was in constant danger or anything. I never fired my weapon.
Anyway…with my own bonafides, such as they are, out of the way, I have to admit I don’t like the phrasing. “Carried in war” does imply at least being in a combat zone to me. But I also think “is that all you’ve got?” It isn’t like he is telling made up stories about his harrowing experience or claiming medals he didn’t win or something like that. Frankly I find Vance’s “which fork is for the pickles?” stories much more off putting
@Lucysfootball and others:
I just posted a long deep dive into the 5 accusations against Walz that I’ve seen. It includes your comment as part of it (and @steve as well).
You can read it here:
https://outsidethebeltway.com/reviewing-claims-about-tim-walz-military-record/
@Michael Reynolds:
Neat. During my undergrad, I did a short, four-month tour, about QM2 predecessor, the QE2. I was working in the on-board printshop.
They are VERY serious about the dressing thing. Only the first and final nights are “casual” (meaning a suit). Everything else is black tie.
The ship (not boat… SHIP) is an experience. The one thing I’ll warn you is that Transatlantic in the fall can be rough. It’s storm season and the open ocean ship experience is very different than other cruises. If you have any questions, I can share what I remember from 30 years ago.
@MarkedMan: “I think switching it to simply, “the same type of gun I carried as a soldier” is simple and accurate.”
With all due respect, this is the kind of petty shit that Democrats fall for all the time. The Republicans come up with some slanderous accusation, and instead of just telling JD Vance to go fuck himself — or even pointing out that his combat experience as a Marine involved months of writing press releases — we start parsing every sylllable of what our candidate said to make sure it’s 100% accurate — while Trump is out there claiming that he personally cured Covid.
It’s a bullshit attack, and should be treated as such.
@Matt Bernius:
What a cool gig. I’m jealous. Although I’m given to understand that they work you hard aboard ship. ‘You! Print shop boy. Climb the mizzen mast and loose the top’sl!’
I get seasick – I can’t play video games without nausea. And our, ahem, suite is well aft where, as you will know, the ship goes and down and up and down. I remind myself that Admiral Nelson suffered from seasickness, which is not to suggest that I will be breaking the French/Spanish line off Trafalgar. So, it’ll be Dramamine and less-than-stellar booze.
They have an impressive on-board library, so we will be doing what all authors do – checking to see if they have any of our books.
I’ve only ever had a tux once before, about 45 years ago as a waiter, and it smelled of she-crab soup.* This whole adventure is hellishly expensive, so if anyone needs a Maitre’D, I may have some availability. I do tableside.
We realized we travel like it’s a survey course. Three or four nights in any given place, then out. The memories barely stick. So we’re aiming more for the memorable experience as opposed to the interchangeable mad dash. After a night in UK we’re going to Nice for a week. I spent some time there in my youth hostel days when I couldn’t afford a croissant, so there’ll be an element of ‘Made it, Ma! Top of the world!’**
*It’s a Maryland thing.
**Cagney about to go boom.
@Lucysfootball: My only problem with the statement is is inference that he was issued an ar-15 which is just complete bullshit. If I’m heading to war I want a real battle rifle aka an assault rifle. Not a rifle that vaguely looks like an assault rifle used by cosplayers in the USA.
IT’s like calling a stock pinto an exotic race car. Sure it can drive around a track but it’s not going to be remotely competitive/useful.
Whoever wrote that speech was trying too hard.
@Michael Reynolds:
Quite a few actual combat veterans are also, in my experience, disinclined to chat about the fighting side of things.
They may reminisce about funny events, or people they knew, but not the combat, at least not very readily, if at all.
My father had several medals; he never wore them. Same applied to two actual uncles and one “uncle” who were combat veterans.
And to grandad Lewis, who was with KSLI at the Somme, and never spoke of it to anyone at all, to the best of my knowledge. I suspect his memories were something he’d rather forget.
Then there was the guy my father and I spent several hours getting a bit blotto with on calvados in a hotel bar in Caen some 20 years ago. Ordinary enough looking man, albeit in good shape for his age, very pleasant, rather unassuming, droll sense of humour, spent most of the evening talking about the merits of French medieval architecture and 1950’s jazz.
Turned out he was a former SOE operative, on his way to Paris to be awarded the Legion d’Honneur.
My father later remarked: “He is very likely the most dangerous man you will ever meet.”
Like the others I’ve known, it’s the absence of any tendency to brag or swagger that seems a common factor.
@Michael Reynolds:
I have a suit and two ties. Clip ons. I am not good at tying things up. The Captain of the
Lusitania,Titanic,Doña Paz, or even the Long Island ferry. I don’t have a ghost of a chance of sitting at any of their tables.Sometime very soon I am going to be doing a book signing tour and I’ll attire myself like I do every day even when staying at a 5-star hotel. I may have made some very nice income writing books but everyday I dress in clothes I got at Sears and other run of the mill retailers. That money I’m making isn’t being invested in a wardrobe. Michael, I’m guessing you’re not too far different.
If you’re wondering, my wife dresses in clothes from Ross and Marshalls.
@JohnSF:
Former Navy Hospital corpsman reporting, Sir.
My giving a Marine a chest x-ray
Me- Take a deep breath and hold it.
Marine- Doc, I said the exact same thing to the wife last night.
10 years in the navy and all I have are bad jokes and boring stories.
@JohnSF:
Same with my father.
Kevin Drum has a post up that the 09/10 ABC debate is back on.
I bet Kamala is prepping as I type this out.
I hope Trump realizes that this will not be the 2.0 version of the debate he had with Biden, where he just sat back and watched Biden unfortunately fall apart on tv.
Kamala has her wits about her, and I also bet Tim Walz is whispering things in her ear to say during the debate to rattle Trump.
@Michael Reynolds: I’ll recommend intradermal patches rather than tablets. The only time I ever got motion sick, I wasn’t able to keep the tablets down long enough to dissolve.*
That was a bad experience overall. I was on a plane and having a massive allergy attack at the same time. Three airsick bags full of stomach contents, phlegm from my lungs and partially dissolved Dramamine and Theophylline tablets. The high point was the conversation with the passenger next to me who expressed his sadness at the fact that I was allergic to tobacco smoke right before he lit his next cigarette. (It’s why they don’t allow guns on flights. I’d have missed and brought down the whole planeload of us.)
@inhumans99:
10 to 1 if Harris does well, the Felon camp will claim she was high on debate-enhancing drugs.
@JohnSF: Yes. My dad was eligible for the Legion d’Honneur, but the Grim Reaper got there first.
@Michael Reynolds:
Don’t worry, Michael. There is at least one member of this forum that knows what you are referring to.
In Russia, a Ukrainian cross-border operation in Kursk oblast has now been ongoing for three days, and is in places up to 20 miles deep into Russian territory on a front of about 80 miles.
It’s obviously primarily a diversion, but looks like its already cut one rail route to Proletarskiy, and threatening another.
And also putting a couple of frontal airbases within artillery range.
Making things a bit worrisome for Russian forces near Kharkiv?
Aim is probably to force Russians to re-deploy reinforcements away from the main active areas around Vovchansk and central Donetsk.
And also to cause conniptions between Putin and the Russian High Command.
@Bill Jempty:
I’ll have you know I own quite a few t-shirts and pairs of sweatpants. I do have some sports coats, but where the hell am I going to wear them? LA when I lived there was a no-suit zone, and Vegas even more so.
@JohnSF:
One of the war YouTubers I follow had another suggestion: it’s forcing conscripts to fight – they aren’t used in Ukraine. And they aren’t just the poor kids from the sticks. I mean, they’re not the sons of billionaires, but even middle class Muscovites have their kids drafted.
But mostly a diversion, forcing Russians to redeploy, something they are not real good at. Also just to fuck with Vlad.
@JohnSF:
Interesting. A description of some very innovative Ukrainian tactics.
I’ll say it again: we should not allow the Ukrainians to join NATO, we should insist.
@Kathy: Bwahahahahahaahaahahaha!! 😀 😀 😛 😛
@Michael Reynolds:
When at home and just doing my normal routines, write/play strat-o-matic baseball/watch television while my kitty sits with me, I’m dressed the same. If I’m going to Publix for groceries, I’m dressed the same more often than not.
My wife makes me wear the suit and tie for Christmas and Easter mass only.
@Michael Reynolds:
He’s not wrong in the sense the Ukrainians are doing a lot of stuff right in this op, but freq hopping has been around for a long, long time.
As are the countermeasures. Whatever his MOS was it did not encompass EW.
@Michael Reynolds:
A blogging combat vet with a significantly broader knowledge base, if you are looking for one.
@dazedandconfused: @dazedandconfused:
Corrected link.
@dazedandconfused: Fascinating stuff. Thanks for the link
Looking forward to Thursday’s Forum! It’s always great to connect with others and share insights. For anyone in the UK who might be juggling forum discussions with coursework, don’t forget that there’s plenty of assignment help available. Whether you’re tackling a tough essay or a complex project, services tailored to UK students can provide the support you need to stay on top of your studies while engaging in these valuable discussions.
@Amelia Willson: what in the ai fuckery is this?
@Thomm:
Spotted and botted.
Lol.
According to our IT guys, any semi-open forum these days is being hammered by ad-bots.
In particular, in our case also, “assignment help” bs.
(Memo to any passing UK students: don’t bother, it’s easily detectable.)