Thursday’s Forum

OTB relies on its readers to support it. Please consider helping by becoming a monthly contributor through Patreon or making a one-time contribution via PayPal. Thanks for your consideration.

FILED UNDER: Open Forum
Steven L. Taylor
About Steven L. Taylor
Steven L. Taylor is a retired Professor of Political Science and former College of Arts and Sciences Dean. His main areas of expertise include parties, elections, and the institutional design of democracies. His most recent book is the co-authored A Different Democracy: American Government in a 31-Country Perspective. He earned his Ph.D. from the University of Texas and his BA from the University of California, Irvine. He has been blogging since 2003 (originally at the now defunct Poliblog). Follow Steven on Twitter

Comments

  1. Gavin says:

    Trump attempted to gain public support recently by threatening John Deere with “200% tariffs” if they moved manufacturing to Mexico.
    The details, however, matter. I don’t understand why Republican voters don’t get it.
    Donald Trump is already responsible for the loss of over 600 jobs in Iowa.. because John Deere has been moving manufacturing from Iowa to Mexico for years. The USMCA, the deal which replaced NAFTA and encourages companies to do this, was signed by Donald Trump.
    Furthermore, Trump cannot enact/repeal tariffs by himself – this requires an act of Congress. To be clear: Trump simply cannot do this to JD manufactured goods magically by himself. He has to actually repeal USMCA first.. which just isn’t going to happen.
    This is yet another example of people voting Republican and getting screwed because they didn’t pay attention to what actually happened.
    Pro tip: When in doubt, assume Trump and the Republicans are lying.

    ReplyReply
    12
  2. Mister Bluster says:

    https://outsidethebeltway.com/tuesdays-forum-153/
    OzarkHillbilly says:
    Tuesday, 2 May 2023 at 19:42
    @Gustopher: My one experience with a black church was after the Cliff Cave rescue. (link) I won’t go into what I did or didn’t do except to say I never laid hands on a body but every second I was under ground we were under threat of more torrential rains.
    Afterwards, I felt the need to go to each of the counselors wakes and the children’s’ memorial.
    At the black counselors wake, I was the only caver there (it was on North Grand, blackity black black) They welcomed me like family, as tho I had a personal connection with their son/brother/uncle/cousin even tho I had never touched this child of god’s body. But it was an uplifting service and I walked away feeling good about his life and whatever small part I played in his body’s recovery (all but none).
    Next i went to the white female counselor’s wake, several other cavers were there and I can tell you that within 5 minutes of walking in I wanted to slit my wrists. It was sad. It was overt. “How could our child die like this???”
    The difference between a black family’s loss and a white family’s loss couldn’t be more stark. For one, it was just another step on the road to Jordan, for the other it was the end of the world.
    The difference was stark, a slap in the face, my very white face. One people was used to loss or at least not surprised by it. The other was ripped asunder by loss.
    And FTR, I was the only caver who went to the memorial for the children. And yeah, I was embarrassed by the racism inherent in that showing.

    ReplyReply
    11
  3. Not the IT Dept. says:

    I have no use for Steve Schmidt (former GOP strategist who can’t figure out that Trump didn’t fall out of the sky from a passing UFO but fit in perfectly with the environment around the post-9/11 Bush years) but he nails a politician I despise with absolute perfection: https://steveschmidt.substack.com/p/mitt-romney-get-in-the-game-which

    He lays it out perfectly how a multi-millionaire (who built a home with an underground parking garage that has elevators for his cars) sees himself as some kind of victim. He also cites Romney’s sickening sucking up to Trump in 2012 that started Trump’s journey from the nutbar fringe to accepted GOP insider.

    A good read.

    Edited: why is the Edit window suddenly so small? Not easy to read, guys.

    ReplyReply
    6
  4. CSK says:

    Eric Adams has been indicted on federal charges.The FBI is searching Gracie Mansion.

    ReplyReply
  5. Bill Jempty says:

    @CSK:

    Eric Adams has been indicted on federal charges.The FBI is searching Gracie Mansion.

    Early reports are coming in on what has been found.

    Playboy magazines from the 1960s and 70s
    A betamax machine plus three pet rocks and a lava lamp
    A 1963 New York Mets yearbook
    Time Magazine from June 1974 asking ‘Another Ice Age?’

    ReplyReply
    2
  6. MarkedMan says:

    @CSK: I called it. The night he was elected I nominated him as the “Mayor Most Likely To Be Indicted”!

    ReplyReply
    2
  7. charontwo says:

    Piece at the Bulwark, including lots of links, on the Seven Mountains Mandate Christian Nationalists:

    Bulwark

    If radicalized dispensational premillennialism inclines believers to retreat into distrustful enclaves and leave the world to its fate, radicalized victorious eschatology pushes believers to triumphally (and, perhaps, coercively) impose their Christianity on whole societies. If we have eyes to see and ears to hear, we can observe this change in eschatological mood happening all around us as politicized Christians abandon their quietism and become more politically aggressive—even militant.

    We can see it in the fawning devotion that many evangelicals offer Donald Trump, their divinely anointed heathen warrior king, sent by God, like the ancient Persian ruler Cyrus, to free God’s people from perceived captivity. We can hear it in the increasingly apocalyptic phrasing evangelical lawmakers are using to describe otherwise mundane policymaking. We can recognize it in the use of Seven Mountains rhetoric and symbols by Christian lawmakers and judges at the highest levels of our government. It’s evident in the fervent, hyperpoliticized evangelical worship rallies being held at our state capitals.

    We are living in seismic and unpredictable times wherein American evangelicals’ hunger for a more worldly sort of power has been reawakened. If we don’t reevaluate our assumptions about evangelical politics after January 6th and amid the ongoing political radicalization of American Christians, we risk missing the signs that many conservative American Christians are developing more far-reaching—and extreme—political ambitions.

    ReplyReply
    5
  8. Bill Jempty says:

    More items found at Gracie Mansion-

    1972 John Lindsey Presidential campaign material that promises he will run the federal government as well financially as he does the city of New York
    A pizza box with a receipt dated August 2 1982 attached to it.

    Breaking news= A set of dentures that DNA testing will prove or disprove they belong to Abe Beame

    ReplyReply
    1
  9. Sleeping Dog says:

    @Bill Jempty:

    Any word on the FBI finding Rudy Giuliani’s character?

    ReplyReply
    3
  10. Bill Jempty says:

    @Sleeping Dog:

    Any word on the FBI finding Rudy Giuliani’s character?

    No searchers found an invitation for Rudy to write a magazine article. What topic? Bankruptcy reform.

    More breaking news- Just discovered at Gracie mansion

    A invitation to Mayor Impellitteri to throw out the first pitch when the Brooklyn Dodgers face off against the New York Yankees in the 1951 World Series
    A autographed but never played Tiny Tim record album

    ReplyReply
  11. Fortune says:

    @Mister Bluster: That’s the race obsessed Ozark Hillbilly I remember.

    ReplyReply
  12. EddieInCA says:

    @Fortune:

    I really hope I”m misunderstanding what you’re trying to say, but if you’re saying Ozark was “race obsessed” as a slur against his character, you can just go rightly fuck yourself. Seriously. Just go fuck yourself for saying that about my friend, so soon after his death. “Race obsessed?” The man looked at life honestly and unflinchingly, willing to admit his biases and learning from them over a long, complicated, and very fruitful life. So.. Go fuck yourself.

    If I’m wrong, explain yourself and I’ll apologize.

    ReplyReply
    20
  13. CSK says:

    @Sleeping Dog:

    Speaking of whom, Giuliani has been disbarred in Washington, D.C.

    ReplyReply
    3
  14. Rick DeMent says:

    Trump voter turnout program now largely run by Elon Musk-backed group
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/sep/26/trump-voter-turnout-elon-musk-pac?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

    Well that makes me a little more optimistic about chances for the Harris\Walz ticket. If the GOTV is being run like Xitter I’m not sure how we lose.

    But while the Trump campaign once predicted having multiple Pacs drive the rest of the vote, with six weeks until the election, only America Pac has a material presence of 300 to 400 paid and part-time people knocking on doors in each of the seven battleground states.

    And we know how good those paid canvassers are. I’m sure Elon’s PAC will hire only the best and pay them accordingly.

    ReplyReply
    1
  15. Jax says:

    @Bobert, how is your wife? Thinking of you!

    ReplyReply
    1
  16. gVOR10 says:

    Kevin Drum offers more evidence of the horrors of Bidenomics. Since 2012 US per capita GDP has grown 20.2%. Second best in the G7, Japan at 10.6. Growth since 2021 is striking.

    ReplyReply
    1
  17. Jay L Gischer says:

    @EddieInCA: I second your emotion.

    A few days ago, Kevin Drum noted that Ta-Nehisi Coates has written a book about Israel/Palestine. He then asked, “what’s the big deal about Coates anyway?” I’m paraphrasing.

    I don’t know where OH learned his stuff, but this white guy learned it from Coates, and the rest of the Golden Horde, many of whom were Black Americans.

    I would summarize what I learned, and what OH did in the above post as: It’s not that we shouldn’t notice race. It’s that we should recognize and celebrate differences, rather than despise them.

    This has stood me in good stead. For instance, I once asked a youngish black woman who was a receptionist at a place I was frequently at how long it too to do those fantastic dreadlocks. She lit up like a Christmas tree, and yet I had not actually uttered a compliment. (I didn’t say the word fantastic to her up front, but they were fantastic).

    Now I am not young, and the number of times in a week that a young woman looks me in they eye with such joy is small, and I enjoyed that. Thank you, Mr. Coates and the GH. I would not have done that had someone not mentioned how much work dreads are.

    I say this to honor Ozark Hillbilly, and with a hope to inspire other white people to speak up in this sort of way. I had some fears that if I spoke this way I might be misunderstood, and we have perhaps today seen why I had those fears.

    I’m gonna do it anyway, when there’s an opportunity.

    ReplyReply
    8
  18. CSK says:

    @Jax:

    I hope he lets us know.

    ReplyReply
    1
  19. Gustopher says:

    @Jay L Gischer:

    A few days ago, Kevin Drum noted that Ta-Nehisi Coates has written a book about Israel/Palestine. He then asked, “what’s the big deal about Coates anyway?” I’m paraphrasing.

    I don’t know where OH learned his stuff, but this white guy learned it from Coates, and the rest of the Golden Horde, many of whom were Black Americans.

    I have never heard of the Golden Horde, looked it up online, and learned that it is something about a Mongolian khanate in the 1300s that stretched as far west as Ukraine, if I’m reading the maps right.

    Anyway, Ta-Nehisi Coates is really good at explaining some of the things that some Black folk experience* to moderately open-minded white people. I’ve learned a lot from him, and I’d like to think of myself as moderately open-minded.

    Drum’s dismissal of him is just another thing I will file into my mental “Kevin Drum is a bit of a shithead” bucket.

    For a while Coates was the go-to Black guy that shows on NPR and MSNBC put on for commentary and opinion, and I can see being mildly dismissive based on that, but only if you never bothered to listen to him. And if I ever referred to him as NPR’s Black Friend, I meant it as a dig at NPR, not Coates.

    (I think Jamelle Bouie is taking that a little bit of that role these days, but I don’t think he’s as good a communicator — still very good, just not as good, but far more well versed in 19th century politics)

    I didn’t know Coates wrote a book about Israel/Palestine, and am half tempted to read it, but I suspect it is not going to be the feel good book of the year.

    *: it is not lost on me that he is from a middle-to-upper-middle-class background.

    ReplyReply
  20. CSK says:

    Trump announced today that he’s peddling gold Trump watches. The price range is $499 to $100,000.

    Order yours today! Supplies won’t last!

    A great Christmas gift, as Trump himself says.

    ReplyReply
    1
  21. CSK says:

    @CSK:

    And on the very same day, Melania goes on Fox to complain that people can’t afford to buy “basic necessities.”

    ReplyReply
    2
  22. MarkedMan says:

    @Gustopher:

    Drum’s dismissal of him is just another thing I will file into my mental “Kevin Drum is a bit of a shithead” bucket.

    I’ve learned a lot from Coates, especially in the Golden Horde days. I’ve learned a lot from Drum, perhaps not as profound of things as from Coates, but still important in developing my world view. I haven’t read Coates book and hadn’t planned to, but if what Drum (and Bergner in The Atlantic) says about it is correct, then it is a changed and much more closed minded version of Coates than I am familiar with. In particular, not even discussing or even mentioning the October 7th attack and massacre in a book about the current war seems, frankly, bizarre. While I acknowledge that Drum and Bergner’s framing might be incorrect, I would have to read the whole book to find out and I’m unlikely to do that.

    ReplyReply
    2
  23. Bobert says:

    @Jax:
    Thanks guys and gals for asking. Still in ICU, and finally of ventilator last night.
    The teams here at Cleveland clinic are terrific and hope to have her out of ICU by next week.

    ReplyReply
    11
  24. CSK says:

    @Bobert:

    Good to know. Thanks for the update.

    ReplyReply
  25. Monala says:

    @Gustopher: if I recall correctly, Coates is not from a middle to upper middle class background. He’s one of a family of about 8 kids who grew up in Harlem. His dad was a Black Panther and brilliant, but largely self-taught. He got a job at Howard so his kids could go there, and most did, including Coates (although he didn’t graduate). Coates and his siblings are probably all now middle and upper middle class, because they’ve all been very successful.

    ETA regarding my last sentence: save one. I think Coates’ eldest brother ended up involved in gang violence. He was the subject of one of Coates’ books.

    ReplyReply
    1
  26. Lucysfootball says:

    Saw this on Yahoo comments:
    The Job Interview:
    HR: So let me get this straight. You got fired from a top executive job because you did a poor job. The company immediately hired a new top executive. You couldn’t handle that. You were so angry, you refused to leave. You called all your friends to come and vandalize the workplace. When you did leave, on your way out of the office you took a lot of the company’s confidential documents. And when you got caught, you refused to give many of them back. Now you’re reapplying for the same job with the same company?

    ReplyReply
    9
  27. Jax says:

    @Bobert: That’s good news, glad to hear it!

    ReplyReply
    1
  28. Beth says:

    https://www.erininthemorning.com/p/groundbreaking-study-anti-trans-state

    In a groundbreaking study published in Nature on Thursday, researchers found that anti-trans bans lead to a 72% increase in suicide attempts among transgender individuals, compared to states without such legislation. The study, which surveyed over 61,000 transgender and nonbinary individuals through multiple waves of questions distributed by The Trevor Project, analyzed the state-level impact of anti-trans legislation. These bans, primarily targeting gender-affirming care, bathroom access, and school policies, had not been examined using this methodology before. The study’s findings could have far-reaching international implications as more countries face pressure to implement similar restrictions on transgender people

    I help with a moderately large trans support group. To my knowledge we were lucky to have our first suicide last year. Elise Malary.

    https://blockclubchicago.org/2023/11/22/late-black-trans-activist-elise-malary-celebrated-on-trans-day-of-remembrance-with-street-name-proposal/

    We’ve now had two women successfully complete suicide in the last two months. The first wasn’t public as Elise so I’m not sharing her name. The second was Arii. As a suicidal person the thing that hurts me the most is that Arii helped significantly with the first woman’s memorial.

    We’re pretty sure our group has had other suicides since 2016. I was almost there myself earlier this year. But if there were they aren’t recorded in our history unfortunately. They would have been people that came once or twice and disappeared. These three were deeply woven into our community here. Chicago is a worse place without them. I am worried this is going to get worse before November. I hope I’m wrong.

    I see Arii’s friends started a gofund me so I’ll drop that here too.

    https://www.gofundme.com/f/honoring-ariis-kindness-and-legacy

    ReplyReply
    6
  29. Monala says:

    @Beth: I’m so sorry. Heartbreaking and infuriating.

    ReplyReply
    2
  30. JKB says:

    Fun fact. If Democrat inspired assassins are successful in “getting” Trump, and the Trump/Vance campaign wins the Electoral College, that means J.D. Vance will become president.

    ReplyReply
    1
  31. Beth says:

    @JKB:

    How’s the glue shipment? Nice bouquet? Full body? Or am I wrong and you’re a spray paint in a rag man?

    ReplyReply
    5
  32. Lucysfootball says:

    @JKB: Psychotropic drugs are a wonderful thing. Maybe go to a doctor and get a prescription.

    ReplyReply
    3
  33. dazedandconfused says:
  34. Mikey says:

    @JKB: Any “Democrat inspired assassin” would be the first one in this campaign. The first two wannabes were a registered Republican who wanted his name in the history books and a mentally ill Trump voter who shouldn’t have been allowed within a mile of a firearm but had no problem getting one because America.

    ReplyReply
    6
  35. CSK says:

    @dazedandconfused:

    They do indeed. I’m wondering who would spring for a Trump watch priced at $100,000?

    ReplyReply
  36. Michael Reynolds says:

    @JKB:
    Pleasure from humiliation is a sexual fetish. And no judgment, but I’m not sure it’s something you want to parade in public like this.

    ReplyReply
    1
  37. Gavin says:

    USSC gave Chutkan the power to determine the acts of Trump that are official and not.
    Tuesday, Chutkan ruled that she must have the evidence of each and every one of the things that Trump is being accused of during the 1/6 case….. made public so that she has the info to make that determination.
    The crime and evidence for that crime for each and every thing that Trump is accused of will be formally in the court record. It’s one of the worst rulings Trump has ever received.
    Smith is submitting hundreds of pages of evidence.
    I’m long on popcorn for this one, because this is a kind of November surprise.
    This ruling flips the USSC immunity ruling back on them in the most fun way possible — because the Fascist 6 undoubtedly never considered that the justice doing the deciding would have the guts to share that info with the public.

    ReplyReply
    3

Speak Your Mind

*