Outside the Beltway

charontwo says:

Thursday, 12 June 2025 at 08:17

“Jason Egenberg”

There are things presidents don’t do. Not because they’re illegal—though sometimes they are—but because the office they hold is older, bigger, and better than they are.

On June 10th, 2025, President Donald Trump stood on a military base named after a Confederate general, looked out over a sea of American soldiers in uniform, and crossed a line the Founders drew in ink, in principle, and in blood.

That line is called civilian control of the military.

And last weekend at Fort Bragg—recently re-renamed by Trump after its brief time as Fort Liberty—that principle wasn’t just ignored. It was trampled, televised, and applauded.

We’ve grown desensitized to spectacle. We’ve learned to tune out the fireworks and tune into the news crawl. But what happened at Fort Bragg is different. It’s not about decorum, or optics, or whether a president should call his political opponents “losers” on federal property. It’s not even about Donald Trump.

It’s about whether the military of the United States of America serves the Constitution—or the man who happens to be holding the microphone.

more:

The Silence of the Generals

Let’s talk about who wasn’t standing up.

Not one word from Army Chief of Staff General Randy George. Nothing from General Dan Caine, the man Trump personally selected to chair the Joint Chiefs of Staff. Not even Colonel Chad Mixon, the base commander at Fort Bragg. Nor Lieutenant General Gregory Anderson, who commands the 18th Airborne Corps headquartered on that very base. Not a single resignation. Not a single reprimand. Not even a reminder of the rules. Not one of them issued a statement reminding the American people that the military belongs to the Constitution, not the presidency.

That silence isn’t professionalism. It’s surrender.

14

Grumpy realist says:

Thursday, 12 June 2025 at 08:33

@Bill Jempty: the plane also crashed into a medical hostel so there’s been quite a few ground casualties as well. Sigh.

Daryl says:

Thursday, 12 June 2025 at 08:47

@charontwo:
Well the crowd was specifically chosen for their sycophancy so no one is ever going to complain.
https://www.military.com/daily-news/2025/06/11/bragg-soldiers-who-cheered-trumps-political-attacks-while-uniform-were-checked-allegiance-appearance.html
The epitome of weakness.

Trump’s Joint Chiefs chair says Putin won’t stop at Ukraine

charontwo says:

Thursday, 12 June 2025 at 09:02

@Daryl:

But all the officers in the relevant chain of command were ok with going along with that.

The Law Is Not a Suggestion

There’s a rule. It’s called Directive 1344.10. And it’s not fine print—it’s the firewall. It says soldiers in uniform don’t attend rallies. They don’t cheer at stump speeches. They don’t boo elected officials, even the ones they hate. They don’t stand behind a podium like props. They don’t do what they did on June 10th. Because the second they do, they stop serving the Constitution and start serving the candidate. And that’s not order—it’s the beginning of something else entirely.

This isn’t an obscure clause buried in a field manual. This is a foundational firewall, and every officer in that chain of command knows it.

Why does it exist?

Because when the military becomes a campaign prop, it stops being a public institution and starts being a private army.

The rule doesn’t exist to protect civilians from the military. It exists to protect the military from politicians.

Trump broke that rule on camera. But he didn’t do it alone.

11

Scott says:

Thursday, 12 June 2025 at 09:03

Random signs of the times:

Joint Chiefs of Staff Chair Gen. Dan “Razin” Caine told senators Wednesday that he did not believe Russian President Vladimir Putin would stop at Ukraine if he succeeds in overtaking the country, a marked contrast to President Trump’s typical ambiguity on the question.

He’s not going to last long.

Before lawmakers, Hegseth refuses to disclose cost, schedule to convert Qatari jet to Air Force One

Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth refused to provide information to lawmakers about the Trump administration’s plan to turn a Boeing 747 previously owned by the Qatari royal family into a new Air Force One plane during a congressional panel today, frustrating Democrats who pointed out such details are public for the actual Air Force One program.
…

“That cannot be revealed in this setting,” Hegseth said when asked about the cost of the effort by Sen. Jack Reed, D-R.I.

This is nonsense, of course. I think the real answer is that Hegseth does not have a clue.

Breaking down the US military’s departure plan for families in Bahrain

Military family members in the Middle East are now authorized to fly anywhere in the United States at government expense for up to six months under guidance released by base officials in Bahrain, as expectations mount of conflict between Israel and Iran. The decision to depart is voluntary for spouses, children and other dependents in Bahrain, an island kingdom located less than 100 miles across the Persian Gulf from Iran. The country hosts the U.S. 5th Fleet.
…
Alerts went out on Wednesday to service members as reports came in of the State Department also drawing down the presence of nonessential staffers throughout the region. In addition to ordering the departure of personnel in Iraq, the State Department on Thursday restricted government employees and their families in Israel from traveling outside the greater Tel Aviv area.
…
Alerts went out on Wednesday to service members as reports came in of the State Department also drawing down the presence of nonessential staffers throughout the region.

The drumbeats of war are sounding in the Middle East. And it doesn’t seem to be getting into the US bubble.

https://punchbowl.news/archive/61225-am/

becca says:

Thursday, 12 June 2025 at 09:18

We were down on the dock putting the bimini up* on the big pontoon when we heard a splash. Not sure how the kitten ended up in the drink, but she did and, boy howdy can that cat swim! We’re thinking she was batting at Sadie from her perch atop the dock box and got knocked in.
We’re afraid this is going to put her off being ship’s cat for a bit.
* I am going to brag on the fact that I repaired the wind torn canopy and added straps to strengthen the canvas. Looks great and I saved hundreds of dollars. Yea me!

7

Scott says:

Thursday, 12 June 2025 at 09:24

“GOP romps again: Republicans easily won Wednesday night’s annual congressional baseball game, defeating Democrats 13-2. It’s the fifth GOP win in a row.”

Is it because Democrats are too old?

https://www.salon.com/2025/06/09/how-everyone-became-a-narcissist/

charontwo says:

Thursday, 12 June 2025 at 09:35

Here is a piece that begins as a discussion of narcissism/NPD then segues into talking about why people (e.g. MAGA) find narcissists so appealing.

“Amanda Marcotte”

Also at Salon:

Bill Jempty says:

Thursday, 12 June 2025 at 09:48

@Grumpy realist:

the plane also crashed into a medical hostel so there’s been quite a few ground casualties as well. Sigh.

Definitely not good news. The worst aviation accident ever when it happened, this crash in 1969, killed over 70 people on the ground. Even worse, this 1996 accident where over 200 people were killed on the ground.

There’s video footage of today’s crash. It can be found here.

Note- Dear Wife and I flew Air India earlier this year back and forth to Delhi. Air India has a very good safety record. What I think of their service based on the trip I was on…..I bite my tongue.

Rob1 says:

Thursday, 12 June 2025 at 09:49

Weasels gotta be weasely. There is no way this guy is Presidential material.

Trump diplomacy’s new low: Rubio congratulates Russians on Russia Day

Rubio’s greetings come as Russia continues its escalated daily airstrikes on Ukrainian cities, causing numerous civilian casualties. [..]

Rubio further stated that “the United States remains committed to supporting the Russian people as they continue to build on their aspirations for a brighter future.”

He also emphasized a desire for “constructive engagement with the Russian Federation to bring about a durable peace between Russia and Ukraine. It is our hope that peace will foster more mutually beneficial relations between our countries.”

https://euromaidanpress.com/2025/06/12/trump-diplomacys-new-low-rubio-congratulates-russians-on-russia-day/

ICE detains US Marshal in courthouse lobby

ptfe says:

Thursday, 12 June 2025 at 10:15

“We don’t know a lot about the individual case (in Tucson), but what we do know is that ICE as an agency is under a lot of pressure from this administration to reach pretty high deportation numbers, and the tactics they’ve been employing reflect that,” [Noah] Schramm [ACLU policy strategist] said.

That includes wrongful arrests of U.S. citizens, and ICE agents more often carrying out operations while in plainclothes, he said. Agents are also bypassing proper procedures, in their haste to make arrests, he said.

“It is not surprising that there would be these cases that the wrong person is detained,” Schramm said. “I think it reflects that they are trying to get numbers and that they are okay violating basic principles and basic procedures that are meant to protect people and make sure the wrong people don’t get picked up.”

…

In late May, residents of Tucson’s south side say that agents who appeared to be with Homeland Security Investigations pretended to be Tucson Electric Power workers, in an unsuccessful attempt to arrest a man from Honduras who has lived in the neighborhood for more than a decade, the Star reported.

TEP said in a statement that the utility company has contacted HSI to request that its agents not impersonate TEP workers.

Rob1 says:

Thursday, 12 June 2025 at 10:17

The Right’s power algorithm: it’s smart to be stupid. Pandering to the sleazy opportunists that service its voter base.

False claims that ivermectin treats cancer, COVID lead states to pass OTC laws

False and unproven claims on social media about ivermectin just won’t die.

Modern medicine’s loss is social media’s gain. Since the pandemic hit, public trust in science and evidence-based medicine, like lifesaving vaccines, has declined. Yet, trust in the anecdotal and often bonkers health advice that endlessly swirls on social media only seems to have risen—and that trust seems unshakeable.

A perfect example of this is ivermectin. In the early stages of the pandemic, some laboratory data suggested that ivermectin—a decades-old deworming drug—might be able to prevent or treat COVID-19. The antiparasitic drug was initially used in the 1970s to treat worm infections in animals, but years later, it gained FDA approval as a prescription drug for treating parasitic infections in humans, including river blindness.

Before scientists could conduct clinical trials to know if ivermectin could also treat the new viral infection, COVID-19, the idea took off, mainly among conservatives. Anecdotes and misinformation ballooned.

https://arstechnica.com/health/2025/06/people-still-clamor-for-deworming-drug-falsely-claimed-to-be-cure-all/

Rob1 says:

Thursday, 12 June 2025 at 10:21

@ptfe: Quota!

And just imagine, it wasn’t that long ago law enforcement had been made accountable for profiling.

Kathy says:

Thursday, 12 June 2025 at 10:34

@Bill Jempty:

Hell of a thing to wake up to.

Accidents right after take off tend to involve either loss of thrust (engine failure), windshear, or misconfigured flight surfaces (trim, flaps, etc.) A good example is Spanair 5022, in which the pilots failed to deploy the flaps and slats. They managed to take off, but then they stalled and crashed.

al Ameda says:

Thursday, 12 June 2025 at 10:34

@Scott:

“GOP romps again: Republicans easily won Wednesday night’s annual congressional baseball game, defeating Democrats 13-2. It’s the fifth GOP win in a row.”
Is it because Democrats are too old?

A 91 year old Senator Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa), says, “hold my beer. I had 5 hits, stole 3 bases, hit an inside-the-park home run, and legged out 2 triples. All while Schumer was getting oxygen while writing an 8-point letter of objection to Trump.”

5

just nutha says:

Thursday, 12 June 2025 at 10:44

@Rob1: They’re bound to make some mistakes. Deporting 10 million undocumenteds in the first year requires over 27,000 arrests every day. Trump voters shoulda knowed this would be a clusterf***.

And after knowing, they’d have to care.

Democratic governors face contentious hearing on sanctuary cities

Bill Jempty says:

Thursday, 12 June 2025 at 11:23

@Kathy: BBC reports there is a survivor.

Scott says:

Thursday, 12 June 2025 at 11:31

A trio of high-profile Democratic governors is set to take center stage on Capitol Hill in what is likely to be a contentious hearing on sanctuary states Thursday.

Republicans on the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee are expected to grill Govs. Tim Walz of Minnesota, Kathy Hochul of New York and JB Pritzker of Illinois over their states’ status as sanctuaries for migrants.

Seems to me the attitude of these Democratic governors should be arrogance and aggression toward these little pathetic Congresscritters. Refuse to be “grilled” and demands answers themselves. Treat them with all the contempt they deserve.

CSK says:

Thursday, 12 June 2025 at 11:53

@becca:

Bat Ms. Sadie and you’ll pay…dearly.

Kathy says:

Thursday, 12 June 2025 at 11:57

We had a big proposal for upload yesterday. The manager did very well getting ahead of the work. I did less well and was a bit behind, but by 6 pm we were all set to finish checking and getting the upload on.

And then it happened: a call from one of the owners. this is never a good thing close to the end of a project. Sure enough, we are told we’re no longer going for fruits and vegetables, but instead for dry goods and milk.

ok. what prices do we use. Oh, he’ll back to us later.

there were some papers to shuffle, and new ones to put in, plus waiting for prices for 150 products… TL;DR: we finished around 11:30 pm.

All things considered, this is not so bad for a proposal that big, but we were set to finish uploading around 7:30 pm.

Kathy says:

Thursday, 12 June 2025 at 12:57

El Taco claims business leaders (unnamed) are telling him his deportations are taking good workers away.

This doesn’t seem like something his feeble mind would make up, as it makes him look bad(er).

I wonder whether French business leaders in Vichy or occupied France complained the Allies’ sweep of nazi troops were taking good workers away. Probably. I mean, the nazis did invade, and invasions are all about taking on menial jobs for low wages and few, if any, benefits.

Gustopher says:

Thursday, 12 June 2025 at 13:24

@Scott:

Republicans on the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee are expected to grill Govs. Tim Walz of Minnesota, Kathy Hochul of New York and JB Pritzker of Illinois over their states’ status as sanctuaries for migrants.

I’m not a fan of Hochul, but I appreciate the Republicans giving Walz and Pritzker a little bit of a spotlight.

Once the 2028 campaign starts in earnest, I think a few of the debates should be replaced with insane Republicans committee members trying to interrogate them. A key quality we need, more than policy or anything like that, is the ability to for the candidate to hold their own and maintain control over the narrative in the face of lunacy.

CSK says:

Thursday, 12 June 2025 at 13:31

According to CBS News, New Hampshirites are the most generous tippers, Utahns the least. My compliments to Jen and Sleeping Dog.

Beth says:

Thursday, 12 June 2025 at 13:34

In case you haven’t seen it in a while… or ever I guess.

Gustopher says:

Thursday, 12 June 2025 at 13:50

In another post, Doc Taylor writes:

And yes: throwing rocks and setting Waymos on fire is counter-productive. But reducing the protests to such action is also dishonest.

Over the years, our government and media have gotten very effective at sidelining and ignoring protests that don’t have at least a tinge of violence.

There are a few goals of a protest including (but not limited to) getting media coverage, and increasing the costs for the government of continuing to do what they are doing.

If the Tree of Liberty has to be fertilized with a few burnt out Waymos, so be it. (In 2020 it was a tradition that each protest involved burning a CVS to the ground)

In Seattle yesterday, the protesters zip-tied a whole bunch of LimeBikes and LimeScooters together to form a barricade that prevented ICE agents from leaving the Federal building with their vans full of people abducted at the immigration court (people who are doing it “the right way”). This didn’t stop them forever, but it pinned the ICE agents in place for many hours, so they could not do more evil elsewhere during that time, and the cost in man hours and money per abduction was increased.

I don’t know how many scooters and bikes were injured, but Uber (the people who own LimeBike) could reasonably claim that they lost revenue. Property damage.

I prefer property damage to throwing rocks, but I’d also prefer the police not be firing their “less lethal” weapons directly at protesters’ heads.

becca says:

Thursday, 12 June 2025 at 13:52

@Kathy: I see forced labor and indoctrination camps. Slavery 2.0. People say Biden was hyperbolic when he said the GOP would put us in chains, but I thought it rang true.

Mister Bluster says:

Thursday, 12 June 2025 at 13:54

@Beth:..AFSCME
I worked at the sewage treatment plant in Murphysboro Il 1977-1978. It was the longest two years of my life. I had to deal with shit from everyone in town!
I still have my Class 4 Wastewater Operators Certificate. When I was married my ex-wife put her law degree on the wall right next to it.

Jen says:

Thursday, 12 June 2025 at 14:10

@CSK: Ha, that’s interesting! I know my husband and I both tend to round up and then round up again… 🙂

Beth says:

Thursday, 12 June 2025 at 14:19

@Mister Bluster:

My uncle worked at the one in Stickney, IL in the 70’s/80’s ish. I remember him telling me about shooting giant rats and growing tomatoes. He was like those were the biggest tomatoes! but you can’t eat them.

CSK says:

Thursday, 12 June 2025 at 14:19

At a press conference this afternoon, Trump stated: “We are not a king at all.”

But using the royal plural, I note.

Kathy says:

Thursday, 12 June 2025 at 14:23

It seems Zeus is not amused by El Taco’s shenanigans.

It would be quite something if he insists on holding his fascist parade, and he were struck dead by lightning.

Matt Bernius says:

Thursday, 12 June 2025 at 14:42

Woof… US Senator for CA Alex Padilla being wrestled and detained by ICE and DHS agents for interupting a Noem presser:
https://x.com/ccadelago/status/1933223705918009759

This led to him being put into a ground restraining hold and possibly getting zip tied:
https://x.com/samstein/status/1933230411468947643

While this is going to be catnip for hardcore MAGA (and Trump apologists) this could really backfire on the Administration.

CSK says:

Thursday, 12 June 2025 at 14:46

@Kathy:

I can’t see Trump caring about putting lives at risk as long as he’s fully sheltered, can you?

I keep wondering if he’ll ask/order the military bands to play “Happy Birthday” to him.

CSK says:

Thursday, 12 June 2025 at 15:01

Well, with a name like Padilla, he’s probably an illegal immigrant, right? Right?

Kathy says:

Thursday, 12 June 2025 at 15:10

@CSK:

I can’t see El Taco give a damn about putting lives at risk. Full stop.

On the good news to break a dreary day front, Mel Brooks is set to reprise the role of (Plain) Yogurt on a reportedly confirmed sequel to Space Balls.

Brooks, BTW, is 99.

DeD says:

Thursday, 12 June 2025 at 15:12

While this is going to be catnip for hardcore MAGA (and Trump apologists) this could really backfire on the Administration.

Good afternoon, Matt. I’m gonna need a point-by-point corroboration for that premise. I don’t see anyone being held accountable for this neo-Franco behavior.

Fortune says:

Thursday, 12 June 2025 at 15:33

Padilla interrupted a press conference. The footage isn’t flattering for him.

CSK says:

Thursday, 12 June 2025 at 15:34

@Kathy:

I thought I made it clear that Trump doesn’t care about any lives but his own.

Jeff Brown says:

Thursday, 12 June 2025 at 15:37

California Democrats have some ‘plaining to do

Los Angeles, CA — June 11 2025
A recent review of the California Democratic Party’s May 2025 expense report has uncovered a significant and controversial expenditure: the purchase of 200 pallets of construction-grade bricks. Notably, this acquisition lacks any associated construction plans or public documentation, raising questions about its intended use.

Mr. Newsom, show us the bricks

Matt Bernius says:

Thursday, 12 June 2025 at 15:58

Padilla interrupted a press conference. The footage isn’t flattering for him.

I’m of course SHOCKED that you think this. Totally shocked. It’s almost as if I didn’t write this:

While this is going to be catnip for hardcore MAGA (and Trump apologists)

Remember this type of respectability politics playing when people complain about how “protests are not non-violent like MLK Jr. in the 50’s/60’s.” Non-violent protests are fundamentally in conflict with respectability politics.

@DeD:

I don’t see anyone being held accountable for this neo-Franco behavior.

In the short term, no one will be. But just like other cases of non-violent civil disobedience, this (and other things like the arrest and charging of Representative McIver) can undermine the overall narrative.

CSK says:

Thursday, 12 June 2025 at 16:02

Oh, the MAGAs are rejoicing that Padilla was detained.

Jay L Gischer says:

Thursday, 12 June 2025 at 16:05

I am a guy who likes decorum and order. People taking turns. Also people following the rules.

I like it when the president doesn’t wipe out entire agencies that were authorized by Congress.
I like it when the president doesn’t withhold funds that were appropriated by Congress.
I like it when the president doesn’t incarcerate people in foreign prisons with zero due process. Not even a check to see if they got the right person.
I like it when the president doesn’t stand up in front of a bunch of soldiers and make a nakedly political speech.

I like all of those things.

That ship has sailed.

He who sows a storm shall reap the whirlwind.

That is not an endorsement, just an observation.

5

Fortune says:

Thursday, 12 June 2025 at 16:10

@Matt Bernius: I wasn’t trying to shock anyone, just warn you the footage won’t be as persuasive as you think. My two cents.

Matt Bernius says:

Thursday, 12 June 2025 at 16:13

@Jeff Brown:
So… let me check… that’s an uncited claim with no link to the alleged “recent review” or any reporting from a new outlet. From your “source”:

A recent review of the California Democratic Party’s May 2025 expense report has uncovered a significant and controversial expenditure: the purchase of 200 pallets of construction-grade bricks.

More discussion on this that demonstrates that the author of this is a conspiracy theorist and crank: https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/1l9v3qf/a_recent_review_of_the_california_democratic/

Are you just really naive and believe every unsourced claim you read? Or is your “democrats bad!” brain worm thing just that bad?

Matt Bernius says:

Thursday, 12 June 2025 at 16:14

I wasn’t trying to shock anyone, just warn you the footage won’t be as persuasive as you think. My two cents.

Oh, I know… he was so disruptive! Let me grasp my pearls and run to my fainting couch! An act of civil disobedience against a Republican didn’t persuade a Trump apologist*!

* – Again, I didn’t say Trump Supporter. We know you have said you are not a Trump supporter. But you have a long track record of apologizing and explaining his behavior and policies**, so I maintain that this is a statement of fact based on your explicit posts.

** – With the exception of tarriffs. Which you have disagreed with. Beyond that, when you choose to post, you spend a lot of time telling us that we’re getting our critiques wrong or are being unfair.

Kathy says:

Thursday, 12 June 2025 at 16:35

If you insist on engaging the troll, you may as well wait until it upgrades to the latest GPT. This one is hallucinating worse than normal.

Mister Bluster says:

Thursday, 12 June 2025 at 16:43

@Matt Bernius:..Thick as a Brick…
I knew that I’d heard these rumors before.

Reuters 2024
Fact Check: Years-old photo, video miscaptioned as bricks in Chicago near DNC

FactCheck (dot) org 2020
Bricks Were Placed for Construction, Not to Incite Protesters

ADL
There is no evidence of an organized effort to intentionally place bricks near Black Lives Matter protest sites.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/democratic-senator-alex-padilla-forcibly-183036039.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall

Gustopher says:

Thursday, 12 June 2025 at 17:05

From the Independent, via yahoo news:

“We are not going away,” Department of Homeland Security Secretary Noem declared. “We are staying here to liberate the city from the socialists and the burdensome leadership that this governor and that this mayor have placed on this country and what they have tried to insert into the city.”

At that point, Padilla — who had barged into the conference room as Noem spoke — tried to address the Homeland Security chief before he was accosted by FBI agents, who then briefly restrained the California Democrat after rushing him away from the scene.

Where in the constitution is the executive branch empowered to liberate cities from their elected leadership? Is this just mentioned in one of the Federalist Papers that I am unaware of?

I look forward to our Trump Apologists explanation of where this power is given to the executive. Thank you for your prompt attention into this matter or whatever Trump has been ending his wish.com tweets with.

Gustopher says:

Thursday, 12 June 2025 at 17:07

@Matt Bernius: Don’t forget all the times when he will say that our critiques are poorly phrased and on paper of the wrong weight.

becca says:

Thursday, 12 June 2025 at 17:17

@Gustopher: omg! Is the Cookie a new iteration of Lounsbury? Didn’t L disappear around the same time the Cookie showed up?
Lounsbury run thru ai as a church lady?

Matt Bernius says:

Thursday, 12 June 2025 at 17:36

@Mister Bluster:

I knew that I’d heard these rumors before.

Yup, the claim that these are “Soros bricks” had circulated around the right wing media super sphere since at least the summer of 2020.

CSK says:

Thursday, 12 June 2025 at 17:38

@becca:

No, I think Fortune is a unique entity.

Kurtz says:

Thursday, 12 June 2025 at 17:52

@Mister Bluster:

I also thought it seemed familiar.

I clicked on Mr. Brown’s link to X.

Michael Mandaville – Scholar Warrior Way
@MikeMandaville
·
13h
Is this being verified MM?

Michelle Maxwell
@MichelleMaxwell
·
10h
I hope so

Show replies

Mark
@tide_forever
·
10h
This is absolutely crazy, and nothing will be done about it !!!

Michelle Maxwell
@MichelleMaxwell
·
9h
So true

So Ms. Maxwell, a person with ~250k followers, tweets something that is formatted like a news story, doesn’t provide a link, and @s Newsmax at the end.

Someone asked if it was being verified.

Maxwell expresses the hope that it is.

An hour afterward, Maxwell replies to another user, expressing agreement that “nothing will be done about it.”

The “it” being something that she previously recognized has not been verified. The “it” being a claim spread anytime protests of Republican actions occur.

I can’t find the appropriate words that capture the stupidity. Not sure they exist.

Matt Bernius says:

Thursday, 12 June 2025 at 17:58

@becca:

Is the Cookie a new iteration of Lounsbury? Didn’t L disappear around the same time the Cookie showed up?

For what it’s worth, while Lounsbury never missed a chance to tut tut a leftie, he also never engaged in Trump-whispering or passive support.

Also, for better or worse, Fortune has yet to approach L’s erudite (and often sesquipedalian) pedantry.

becca says:

Thursday, 12 June 2025 at 18:15

@CSK: well, that’s no fun.

Fortune says:

Thursday, 12 June 2025 at 18:17

@becca: What benefit would you get either way? Does either alternative mean I’m wrong about how non-leftists will react to the Noem vido?

Kingdaddy says:

Thursday, 12 June 2025 at 18:20

Alex Padilla…

Is a US Senator.
Was in a federal building.
Was not being violent.
Was not threatening violence.
Identified himself repeatedly.
Was not having an episode of mental illness.
Did not resist being handcuffed, despite it being an unlawful action.
Was exercising his First Amendment rights.

Everything else is noise.

Also, his staff member had every right to record this incident, despite the security people’s insistence otherwise, and their efforts to block him from using his phone to capture video or photographs.

Gustopher says:

Thursday, 12 June 2025 at 18:29

@Fortune: where is your prompt attention to this matter?

Matt Bernius says:

Thursday, 12 June 2025 at 18:29

Does either alternative mean I’m wrong about how non-leftists will react to the Noem vido?

Absolutely not. But it also doesn’t mean you are *right* about how “non-leftists” will react either. And since we are in a text based medium that is going to lead to pushback.

BTW is Lisa Murkowaki a leftist? Asking to make sure my filing system is up to date:

“I’ve seen that one clip. It’s horrible. It is shocking at every level. It’s not the America I know.”

https://x.com/CBSNews/status/1933263529970221174?t=L4818q9Rwcrr0Fpimi9zWg&s=19

Kingdaddy says:

Thursday, 12 June 2025 at 18:33

Schumer’s “We demand answers” statement was just as flaccid a response as always. These are extraordinary times. Gather some other Senators and take a walk over to the White House. Demand answers face to face, or have the country see how little the current occupant respects a co-equal branch of government.

Kurtz says:

Thursday, 12 June 2025 at 18:47

Would you mind providing your definition of Leftist?

CSK says:

Thursday, 12 June 2025 at 19:11

@Kurtz:

In the hope of eliciting an answer to your question, I’m telling you not to expect an answer.

Kurtz says:

Thursday, 12 June 2025 at 19:21

@CSK:

In the hope of eliciting an answer, I admit that I do not expect one.

Maybe this makes it seem as if I was baiting Fortune, but I have long been curious about the answer.

Fortune says:

Thursday, 12 June 2025 at 20:00

@Kurtz: I’m not trying to use the term unconventionally. In an American context, it typically refers to those on the political left who advocate for structural change and/or accept Marxist or Marxian economics or critical theory. Or simply the leftmost 20%. Isn’t that more or less the accepted definition? The term is used to distinguish leftists from more centrists or liberals, right?

Kurtz says:

Thursday, 12 June 2025 at 21:15

In an American context, it typically refers to those on the political left who advocate for structural change and/or accept Marxist or Marxian economics or critical theory.

I know length bothers you, so I apologize for the word count. But, this matters if your goal here is to communicate effectively.

Given the number of people who have been accused of being Marxist who are clearly not even Marxist-adjacent, I think your claim of using a conventional definition is curious. Meaning, “American context” is doing a lot of work, here.

I also note that your list consists of terms that are:

-broad enough (“structural change”) to include those who are hardly Leftist at all, as well as vague enough wrt social, political, and economic domains that it is meaningless as a signifier without context;

-have been and are currently used (Marx-) to describe anything to which the speaker is opposed;

and/or

-an umbrella term (critical theory) that describes something that exists, but includes a wide variety of philosophical approaches to a wide variety of questions, all of which have differing levels of debt to Marx and subsequent generations of self-ID Marxists.

For a contemporary example of why this matters:

Gramsci is an important figure in critical theory. Rufo explicitly credits Gramsci for his strategy in a culture war. Does that make Rufo a critical theorist? Does it make him a Leftist? A Marxist?

If I think we should have a single-payer HC system, does that make me a Marxist?

Does it even make me a socialist if that is the only area of the economy I think needs significant government intervention?

You tried to define a common term that means different things to different Americans* by way of other terms that are the subject of deliberate obfuscation by political actors.

*so much for a singular “American Context”.

DK says:

Thursday, 12 June 2025 at 22:16

BTW is Lisa Murkowaki a leftist?

Murkowski doesn’t reflexively make excuses for 99% of the criminal Trump regime’s repulsive thuggery. She manages to offer up limp, tepid concern about 3.5% of the time. So in the world of bootlicking Trump apologia, of course she’s a Marxist/leftist apostate.

Mimai says:

Thursday, 12 June 2025 at 22:57

@Kurtz:
This is a good comment. Thoughtful and high-effort. It deserves a response. Hence, this.

Kingdaddy says:

Friday, 13 June 2025 at 00:00

I just have to point out that, on the day when a US Senator was thrown to the floor and handcuffed for exercising free speech, some people on this forum are spending time trying to parse some rando’s ludicrous definition of “leftist.”

Kurtz says:

Friday, 13 June 2025 at 02:04

@Kingdaddy:

Aren’t most of us kind of randos in that sense?

Fortune is a regular whose rare attempts at substance demonstrate that these vague terms as the foundation for how they process information.

How people sort and connect pieces of information is an interest of mine.

Yes, I am angry about Padilla, but expressing that anger here is productive toward exactly one end: verbal catharsis.

just nutha says:

Friday, 13 June 2025 at 02:41

@becca: I think Lounsbury is lurking until the economic realities are more favorable to criticizing lefty uni wishful thinking again. He was never much of a Trump apologist.

Mimai says:

Friday, 13 June 2025 at 09:10

@Kingdaddy:
Fair enough.

Lots of important stuff happens every single day. And while this happens, I engage in many frivolous activities. Every single day. Just yesterday, in addition to commenting on Kurtz’s comment, I ate a bowl of ice cream and read a few chapters of a brain candy novel. (no snark intended)

As I said, important stuff happens every single day. In the US. And around the world. And yet we choose to engage in our frivolities, longform and otherwise. (good natured snark intended)

James says:

Friday, 13 June 2025 at 20:26

Regarding the horrible speech at Ft Bragg where many of my JSOC friends have been posted…. If these Trump acolytes had read a history book they would know the Union won the Civil War. The Confederates lost the Civil War, making the Confederates losers. I guess they don’t teach this at the Virginia Military Institute (VMI the alma mater some of these pipsqueaks matriculated from allegedly).