Tuesday’s Forum

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Steven L. Taylor
About Steven L. Taylor
Steven L. Taylor is a retired Professor of Political Science and former College of Arts and Sciences Dean. His main areas of expertise include parties, elections, and the institutional design of democracies. His most recent book is the co-authored A Different Democracy: American Government in a 31-Country Perspective. He earned his Ph.D. from the University of Texas and his BA from the University of California, Irvine. He has been blogging since 2003 (originally at the now defunct Poliblog). Follow Steven on Twitter

Comments

  1. CSK says:

    China has announced retaliatory tariffs on U.S. goods.

    1
  2. Not the IT Dept. says:

    @CSK:

    I think more detail is needed on this. According to https://www.cnn.com/2025/02/04/business/china-us-trade-retaliation-hnk-intl?

    “The fresh duties, announced by China’s Ministry of Finance, levy a 15% tax on certain types of coal and liquefied natural gas and a 10% tariff on crude oil, agricultural machinery, large-displacement cars and pickup trucks. The measures take effect on February 10.

    The Ministry of Commerce and China’s customs administration also announced new export controls effective immediately on more than two dozen metal products and related technologies. Those include tungsten, a critical mineral typically used in industrial and defense applications, as well as tellurium, which can be used to make solar cells.”

    4
  3. Min says:

    “Europe ready for tariff talks with US, says European Commission head Ursula von der Leyen”

    EU trade ministers will meet in Warsaw, Poland, today, where they will discuss possible responses to Trump’s economic arm-twisting.

    https://p.dw.com/p/4q0mk

  4. Sleeping Dog says:

    One Response to Trump’s Tariffs: Trade That Excludes the U.S.

    Gift link

    A growing number of countries, including American allies, are striking trade deals as the Trump administration erects a higher fence around its global commerce.

    One of the fantasy justification of prez felons tariffs is that they will result in the on-shoring of manufacturing. Under the best case scenario, that is a dubious proposition and if the US is being excluded from trade agreements it is even moreso. Any company that would consider on-shoring production, would still want/need access foreign markets to defer the costs and losing that access makes leaving production in Mexico, China etc, more likely. Simply let the US consumer pay the tariff and still maintain preferred access to the rest of the worlds markets.

    4
  5. CSK says:

    “Trade wars are good, and easy to win.” — Donald J. Trump, years ago.

    7
  6. charontwo says:

    Timothy Noah has some thoughts on Trump and tariffs in the New Republic:

    TNR

    The Real Secret Behind Trump’s Insane Tariff Obsession

    The president won’t clarify what his price for ending his idiotic trade war is. Maybe that’s because it’s something he dare not say out loud.

    Donald Trump aspires to replace the income tax, or as much of it as he can, with revenue from tariffs. He said so last June, and he repeated his intentions in his inaugural address. Yet the financial press keeps scratching its head over why Trump’s starting a trade war with Canada and Mexico by imposing 25 percent across-the-board tariffs and escalating an existing trade war with China by imposing a 10 percent across-the-board tariff. “What exactly is the goal?” asks Lindsay Wise in The Wall Street Journal.

    The goal is to raise revenue—more than $1 trillion by one estimation, though that was before Trump lowered the tariff on Canadian oil to 10 percent. And while Trump’s fellow oligarchs may fancy, in theory, gutting the income tax, even they don’t want to pay the financial price—of which Friday’s stock market dive was only the first sign.

    snip

    Trump’s race to shred what little is left of the Constitution’s emoluments clause, I’ve suggested, is driven in large part by his personal insolvency. I think that’s why Trump puts up with Elon Musk well past the point that Musk’s attention-seeking would have exiled anybody else. Paul Krugman, in his new Substack newsletter, speculates that the Chinese government kept Trump’s China tariff at 10 percent (against 25 percent on Canada and Mexico) by purchasing vast numbers of Trump’s memecoins. That’s pure speculation, but the memecoin racket is not, because somebody is buying up vast quantities of them. Citing a report from Business Insider, Krugman observes that around 40 so-called “whales”—that is, very rich investors—own fully 94 percent of the Trump memecoins. Each of these 40 whales owns more than $10 million of these worthless trinkets.

    Have these very rich investors, whose identities are not publicly available, been following some sophisticated investment strategy well beyond the understanding of you and me? No. These purchases are expensive endearments. Whether those extending them include the Chinese government is anybody’s guess. But these whales, whoever they are, want something in return. They’ve created a path for other influence-buyers to follow.

    Which may mean Trump’s price for dropping his hugely costly fantasy of resurrecting William McKinley will be not better behavior from China or Mexico or Canada on trade or border crossings or fentanyl, or even Canada becoming the fifty-first state. It may be that Trump is running a straightforward protection racket on his billionaire new best friends. Is that an outrageous accusation? It is. But tell me with a straight face he wouldn’t try it if he could.

    7
  7. DrDaveT says:

    For $18.95, you can buy a copy of the 2025 Federal Employees Handbook from FedWeek. Think of it as a work of alternative history.

    1
  8. Charley in Cleveland says:

    The problem with Trump, and the people he surrounds himself with, is that the campaign never stops. No interest in actually governing…just constant whining, division, and blame assessment. His “policies” are campaign rhetoric that translate as ill conceived and unproductive. I believe it was Charlie Pierce who perfectly summed up Trump by saying, “He doesn’t know anything about anything.”

    7
  9. Daryl says:
  10. charontwo says:

    If the Canada and Mexico new tariffs are just delayed 30 days, what are the chances of fresh demands from Trump before then?

    This is a bit analogous to paying off an extortionist – when does it end?

    7
  11. CSK says:

    @Charley in Cleveland:

    The presidency, for Trump, is one long rally during which he can be surrounded by worshiping fans baying their adoration of him.

    6
  12. Not the IT Dept. says:

    The real problem with bringing production back to our shores is that American obsession with what a more honest generation called a “living wage”. I don’t think that even the reddest-state blue-collar types are going to settle for earning sweat-shop wages of less than $20 per day. In their minds I’m sure there’s a lot of certainty that people will be making union-level wages again. Wishful thinking is almost too kind a phrase to describe it.

    I remember reading something on SF author John Scalzi’s website that’s stayed with me ( https://whatever.scalzi.com/2017/03/16/the-double-bubble/ ) The comments by Magda and Molly are pretty on-point and still relevant for dealing with red-state economic illiteracy:

    “In the WP there was an article last week about “Poor, Sick and Voted for Trump” and one guy in particular stood out for me: he recognized that he needed Ocare but he voted for Trump since Trump would bring back the coal mines and he’d have a great job again with full health benefits so he wouldn’t need Ocare any more.

    I mean, where can you begin to deal with this mentality? Apparently Trump (or any president, presumably) can just magic up good union jobs with a snap of his fingers and everything will be fine again…What he does know is that he’s a good person and that jobs are like cookies in a cookie jar: there are only so many and they’re doled out to good people who deserve them for their upstanding moral worth…”

    And

    “He obviously thought (still thinks so maybe) that the coal jobs were really coming back. But what struck me about him was the long list of medical issues he has. I seriously doubt he could get hired for a coal job. I think a lot of people who voted for [T]rump had some serious wishful thinking going on with every other reason. It made me sad that he was willing to gamble his future – possibly literally given his medical issues – on a job “maybe” coming back that “should have” even better medical insurance than he currently has.”

    4
  13. Beth says:

    @Not the IT Dept.:

    They have been taught to think the good Union jobs are coming back for Whites only and that they won’t have to pay Union dues or have any responsibilities to anyone else cause they are special special snowflakes.

    These are deeply stupid people and I hate them.

    9
  14. Pete S says:

    Part of the explanation for dropping the tariffs (for now) against Canada – Ontario had announced the cancellation of a $60M contract with Musk’s Starlink. That cancellation is now postponed. Even though this is not even pocket change for Musk these guys seem to be such greedy misers that may be some actual leverage.

    3
  15. Gavin says:

    Republicans who call themselves “populists” can identify the correct problem and we may even agree on the end goal in 30 years. However, they lack the ability to determine [and perhaps aren’t interested in] which political party implements a project plan to measure achievement/implementation of a solution.

    They refuse to objectively analyze the human nature of the monied class of bosses — They fundamentally can’t conceive of the reality that bosses are never benevolent and therefore need to have an organization that is powerful enough to check them at all times. They aren’t interested in accepting that removal of “regulation” or “unions” will help only the boss and never the worker.. because if they accept that, the next steps are forming a union, doing coalition-building, making compromises, and then they’ve become the libz that FoxSnooz told them to hate.

    Furthermore, the idea that a people who have no money and no power are holding anyone back from anything is insane.. Republicans fundamentally aren’t interested in doing a sincere root-cause analysis of any problem they identify. And because they can’t accept reality on reality’s terms, they don’t like hearing from “Experts” who force them to confront the obvious holes in their emotional reasoning.

    8
  16. MarkedMan says:

    @charontwo:

    Donald Trump aspires to replace the income tax, or as much of it as he can, with revenue from tariffs.

    Trump has come up with the worst version of a VAT ever conceived.

    What a moron.

    10
  17. Not the IT Dept. says:

    @Beth:

    You’re wrong. Yes many are racist but an equal number are just ignorant of how the world works and are stupid in many parts of their lives.

    There are variations in any voting block. I understand it’s convenient to think like that – and certainly most of the people who get interviewed on tv or promote themselves on social media – are more than happy to confirm your views. But it’s not good to let emotion take over like that – for them or for you.

    6
  18. EddieInDR says:

    ‘They used us:’ Trump-backing Venezuelan immigrants now furious at deportations

    MAGA is spiraling after realizing Trump is going to make their lives harder

    Morons. The lot of them. Freaking morons. I truly hope they suffer for the suffering caused to people worldwide as the result of their ignorance. Their willful ignorance.

    12
  19. charontwo says:

    @EddieInDR:

    The Venezuelans are naturally right-wing predisposed, potentially similar to Florida’s Cubans (based on similar reasoning), so it’s natural for them to believe GOP assurances. As soon as I read that Venezuelans were losing the TPS Biden granted them I went into total (for them) schadenfreude mode.

    ETA: The U.S. has now essentially “Brexited” itself out of its various trade agreements as it is no longer trusted to honor them. FAFO.

    5
  20. Kathy says:

    @charontwo:

    I could say the problem with replacing income taxes with tariffs is the latter won’t bring in nearly enough to fund the whole government. But evidently that’s the objective. How long have they clamored to “starve the beast”?

    6
  21. Sleeping Dog says:

    @EddieInDR:

    I didn’t think the leopard would eat my face 🙁

    3
  22. Kathy says:

    Very often at work, a manager or supervisor will tell me to do something, or to watch out for a publication, and many times it turns out I’m already doing it (and sometimes I’m even done with it).

    Curiously they never then claim credit for getting me to do what I was already doing. They’d make terrible tinpot tyrants.

    3
  23. Daryl says:

    @charontwo:

    The goal is to raise revenue

    If that is, indeed, the goal…then Diaper Donnie caved. Neither Canada’s nor Mexico’s concessions raised one penny of revenue, or did anything about the trade balance.

    2
  24. Rob1 says:

    Rubio says El Salvador offers to accept deportees from US of any nationality, including Americans

    “And, he’s also offered to do the same for dangerous criminals currently in custody and serving their sentences in the United States even though they’re U.S. citizens or legal residents.” [..]

    [Salvadoran] President Nayib Bukele “has agreed to the most unprecedented, extraordinary, extraordinary migratory agreement anywhere in the world,” Rubio said

    [Bukele] said his country would accept only “convicted criminals” and would charge a fee that “would be relatively low for the U.S. but significant for us, making our entire prison system sustainable.”

    https://apnews.com/article/migration-rubio-panama-colombia-venezuela-237f06b7d4bdd9ff1396baf9c45a2c0b

  25. Mister Bluster says:

    The war in Ukraine ended 16 days ago. We know this because Donald Trump ended it on day one.
    I think that all the Trump toadies who post here need to confirm this great victory by the President.
    Or not…
    More Fake News from the Guardian dated 02FEB2025:

    Ukraine war briefing: Ukraine dismisses Trump envoy suggestion that both sides will make concessions
    Adviser to Volodymyr Zelenskyy calls Keith Kellogg’s plan a failure after US envoy says he thinks both sides ‘will give a little bit’

    This item posted to OTB Feb 4, 2025 9:18cst

    2
  26. charontwo says:

    @Kathy:

    replacing income taxes with tariffs is the latter won’t bring in nearly enough to fund the whole government.

    It does not need to, a partial offset is still worth something – i.e., funding tax cuts.

    @Daryl:

    then Diaper Donnie caved.

    A 30-day delay is not much of a caving, he then comes back for another bite. But I guess the stock market, like you, buys the concept he caved.

    0
  27. Rob1 says:

    @Charley in Cleveland:

    The problem with Trump, and the people he surrounds himself with, is that the campaign never stops. No interest in actually governing…just constant whining, division, and blame assessment.

    But that is Trump’s approach to governing. We saw it in his first administration. I’d venture that is how he functioned in his “business career” — hectoring, wheedling, cajoling, threatening, denigrating, coercing, sucking all oxygen out of any situation.

    4
  28. Daryl says:

    @charontwo:

    …he then comes back for another bite.

    And then he caves again.

    3
  29. Rob1 says:

    @Daryl:

    The Doughboy administration is full of adults.
    https://x.com/StevenCheung47/status/1886566101389066304?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1886566101389066304%7Ctwgr%5Ef7a8b876db24580bc97e4ab965a21060ff2c85db%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.huffpost.com%2Fentry%2Ftim-walz-steven-cheung-posts_n_67a1be34e4b0ec9b03541c2d&mx=2
    But Walz is correct, Musk is a terrible POTUS.

    But Cheung’s is such a typical response from the Trump crowd. A childish personal attack that doesn’t refute Walt’s assertion that Musk is a “terrible POTUS.”

    Waltz’s observation can be objectively evaluated and argued in the affirmative or negative.

    Cheung calling Waltz a “cuck” cannot. He has no rational response, so he “flings scat” and shoots the middle finger.

    This is what is accepted as statesmanship among the MAGA crowd. It’s leaders are emotionally stunted as are apparently, a great number of its electorate, satisfied that this flagrantly childish behavior constitutes “work getting done” on their behalf.

    7
  30. gVOR10 says:

    @Not the IT Dept.: Remember when Governor Scott Walker, a creature of the Koch Bros, took on public sector unions in WI, except the cops? There were numerous Cletus safaris to sound out public reaction in WI. One might have expected some degree of, “Teachers are paid better than us, we oughta get a union.” But no, it was usually, “Yeah, stick it to them uppity teachers.”

    1
  31. CSK says:

    Good choice, Trump. Parnell fits right in with the rest of your picks:

    http://www.rawstory.com/sean-parnell-2671088829/

  32. Kathy says:

    About McKinley and tariffs, the Tariff Act of 1890 imposed duties of 49.5% on most imports. Reactions were not what you’d call good.

    I wouldn’t expect a repeat of the ultimate outcome in the 1890s. For one thing, even the fattened pigs would squeal if the tinpot tyrant went that far. But in the first place, people respond more to narrative and rhetoric than even facts.

    If high inflation were to return and could be factually traced to the rapist’s tariffs, a lot of those who vote republican would believe it was all because a transwoman used a women’s restroom in Podunk, if the felon told them so.

    3
  33. Bobert says:

    I suppose it’s asking too much for the brightest and best of Trump’s team to understand but:

    Trade in-balance with Canada. Consumers buy what they want. Perhaps a significant reason for a trade inbalance with Canada is that there are ten times as many US consumers than Canadians, ergo less total demand by Canadian consumers.

    4
  34. Kathy says:

    @Bobert:

    One big issue I have with trade figures is that services are usually left out. If you added trade in services, the US deficit with Canada gets smaller.

    Another issue is there are raw materials and manufactured goods that simply don’t exist or are not made in some countries, or not in sufficient quantities. So they have to be imported. Placing tariffs on such things won’t help with a trade balance.

    4
  35. DK says:

    The shot…

    Elon Musk’s 19- to 24-year-old aides have taken control of a $6 trillion government payment system

    …The Treasury’s closely guarded payments system handles the money flow of the U.S. government, including $6 trillion annually for Social Security, Medicare, federal salaries, and other critical payments.

    Musk’s control of the payments system was approved by incoming Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent and was made possible when a career official was put on administrative leave on Friday after refusing to hand over access, The Washington Post first reported.

    The official subsequently retired from the department, a source close to the matter told AFP.

    …News outlet Wired was first to report that Musk has placed young surrogates working for DOGE into key government positions, with his team gaining unprecedented access to the payment systems typically restricted to career employees.

    The staff, reportedly aged between 19 and 24, were also placed at the federal Office of Personnel Management, the HR department for public workers that sent out an email last week offering most employees a chance to leave the government on immediate notice with about nine months’ pay.

    Trump and Republicans have really given our banking data and Social Security numbers to broccoli-haired incel techbros barely above drinking age. Wtf

    7
  36. DK says:

    The chaser…

    US Treasury Sued Over DOGE’s Access To Sensitive Information (Newsweek)

    …The lawsuit, filed in federal court in Washington, argues that Musk’s team is using the system in violation of multiple privacy laws, including 1974’s Privacy Act, and other regulations that dictate who is authorized to access the network.

    The Alliance for Retired Americans, the American Federation of Government Employees (AFGE) and the Service Employees International Union (SEIU) are seeking a restraining order to keep DOGE out of the system. Scott Bessent, President Donald Trump’s Secretary of the Treasury, the Department of the Treasury and
    Bureau of the Fiscal Service were named as defendants in the civil action suit.

    “Granting DOGE-affiliated individuals full, continuous, and ongoing access to that information for an unspecified period of time means that retirees, taxpayers, federal employees, companies, and other individuals from all walks of life have no assurance that their information will receive the protection that federal law affords” the lawsuit alleges.

    Apparently, Bessent is scrambling to reassure senators that Nazi Musk and his dudebro brownshirts only have ‘read-only’ access. Pfft.

    Trump launched his toxic political career with racist claims that Obama was African-born and thus illegitimate. Now conservatives are fine with an actual African-born illegal immigrant unsurprising the presidency and rummaging through our private data. Clownery.

    8
  37. charontwo says:

    @DK:

    I have been reading a post on this over at BJ, people are freaking out.

    https://balloon-juice.com/2025/02/04/it-folks-this-is-bad-right/

    Reading through the comments there, several links, also various ex-programmers pretty alarmed.

    2
  38. charontwo says:

    @DK:

    Apparently, Bessent is scrambling to reassure senators that Nazi Musk and his dudebro brownshirts only have ‘read-only’ access. Pfft.

    That is contrary to the reporting BJ/TPM found – shutting down payments they do not like by dicking around with the code.

    2
  39. DK says:

    Catherine Rampell: Trump got rolled by Mexico and Canada (CNN)

    Stephen Collinson: In the face of a trade war with America’s neighbors, Trump blinked (CNN)

    …Mexico has several times moved troops to the border. For example, it sent 10,000 in April 2021 at the request of President Joe Biden, who didn’t need to threaten to pitch America’s southern neighbor into a recession to get it to act.

    …And by undermining the US-Mexico-Canada trade deal that he argued in his first term was one of the world’s greatest, Trump has undermined trust in America’s word and raised doubts over his capacity to close future deals. Constantly offending the country’s closest friends threatens to undermine Western solidarity against America’s real enemies like Russian and China.

    And by backing down at the 11th hour, the president also sent a clear message to Beijing — which has been slapped with a new 10% tariff on exports to the US — that he might jump at a potential deal if it looks like a breakthrough, even if it lacks depth.

    CNN doing actual journalism.

    5
  40. charontwo says:

    @DK:

    Trump and Republicans have really given our banking data and Social Security numbers to broccoli-haired incel techbros barely above drinking age. Wtf

    Small beer minor problem compared with baby programmers dicking with the code.

    1
  41. DK says:

    @charontwo: Yes, there’s no reason to believe Bessent anyone associated with rapist Trump or Nazi-saluting freak Musk.

    @charontwo:

    Small beer minor problem compared with baby programmers dicking with the code.

    The answer is C. All of the above.
    None of this is minor by any measure, 100% of it is outrageous and dangerous.

    4
  42. charontwo says:

    @DK:

    Trump has undermined trust in America’s word and raised doubts over his capacity to close future deals.

    As I said upthread, electing Trump has basically “Brexited” the U.S., with similar confidence in any trade deals involving the U.S.

    6
  43. Jay L Gischer says:

    @Beth: What is going on right now hurts me a lot, and I think that has to be small and pale compared to what you are experiencing. Of course you would lash out, you’ve probably never met any of these people. And they have subjected you to harm.

    (And by the way, if there is something I can do in a material way for you, email me and let me know. I might be able to manage something.)

    AND, the people in question, for the most part, have been swindled. They have clung to a hope beyond reason that their lives will return to what their parents and grandparents have, and this hope has been exploited by Trump. There are MAGAs who practice bad faith, especially on this blog, and I’m none too happy with them. In contrast, the folks at my class reunion aren’t like that, even though they voted for Trump.

    They have been swindled. They also think Bernie Sanders was interesting, and they are probably mad at “The Democrat Party” for knocking him down. Bernie meant it, though. Trump doesn’t. Facebook, and the highly targeted advertising it allows is part of the swindle, as is Fox News, etc.

    The traditional product the Republican Party was selling has no legs these days. So they had to resort to swindling and culture wars to keep the billionaires in power. To break this, we need to be able to connect to some of these voters. But I think it’s possible. It has happened before, it will again.

    2
  44. DK says:

    @Jay L Gischer:

    They also think Bernie Sanders was interesting, and they are probably mad at “The Democrat Party” for knocking him down.

    Another egomaniac who started yelling rigged after failing to connect with black voters and losing by millions of votes fair and square. I say that as someone who generally applauds Bernie.

    This belief among some white voters left and right — if their preferred candidate loses by millions of votes to coalitions fueled by minorities, whether in the Dem primary or in the general election — then they’ve been swindled out of what’s rightfully theirs represents the worst kind of white entitlement. Thus reinforcing Beth’s point about bigotry and racism.

    To their credit, Hillary Clinton and Kamala Harris declined to placate liberals encouraging formal challenges to the 2016 and 2024 results, based on conspiracy theories about vote rigging. Supporters of Sanders and Trump should be embarrassed at how these men reacted to much larger and more emphatic losses in 2016 and 2020. Bernie contesting Hillary’s convention was a disgracefully selfish act that benefitted Trump.

    (P.S. There are millions of Biden voters who went missing between 2020 and 2024, who can be reactivated. Democrats do not have to change a single Trump voter’s mind to prevail in the future.)

    6
  45. Kathy says:

    On the AI front, I ran some tests of Deep Seek compared to ChatGpt, Copilot, and Gemini. I got very similar answers. I think they copy each other’s models.

    Yesterday at home I opened a Word file, and noticed a Copilot icon lodged there in the ribbon with other commands and such. I did not try it. Later I looked up online what the deal is, as it does not appear in any MS Office programs at work. It seems one may need to pay for it, on top of the annual subscription one already pays Microsoft for the office software.

    I wonder if one could type up a story, or copy one, and have the AI turn it into a screenplay. Or, since copilot also generates images, maybe a story board. I’ve never written a screenplay nor drawn a story board, but I’ve read screenplays and seen story boards.

    That might actually be useful, assuming the bot can generate a reasonable pre-draft of either.

    Next, the big AI players in the US insist they need billions, many billion$, to keep developing their chatbots and stay ahead of the Chinese. Maybe so, and I suppose they’ll get them*. But if I were looking to invest loads of money on AI, I’d at least ask to look at Deep Seek’s expenses to date, and see if there’s anything to their claims of equaling GPT on the cheap.

    *Is anyone still investing massive amounts on blockchain? has anything other than memcoins come off that?

  46. CSK says:

    Trump will be attending the Superbowl this coming weekend. I wouldn’t want to be in New Orleans.

  47. Kathy says:

    @CSK:

    Was it the Eagles who snubbed his invitation to the occupied White House after winning the Super Bowl? I hope they win next week.

    Of course, maybe the nazi in chief will fire all the refs and suspend all regulations to allow real Football to be played.

    1
  48. EddieInDR says:

    @Jay L Gischer:

    Naive Jay. Very naive. “They got swindled”? Bullshit.

    They were willfully ignorant, to facts, history, logic, and evidence. They WILLINGLY voted for a convicted felon con man rapist who led an insurrection . No. They don’t now get to claim they weren’t aware of how bad Trump is.

    Beth is 100% correct.

    4
  49. CSK says:

    @Kathy:

    Yes, in 2018 most of the Eagles refused his invite to the WH.

    The NFL has removed the “end racism” sign from the end zone. I am not joking.

    1
  50. Kathy says:

    @Jay L Gischer:
    @EddieInDR:

    At some point the willingness to accept every whitewashing, every illogical pretext, every rationalization, every false equivalence, to make a certain person who spews little else but hate, invective, and ignorance, seem “not so bad,” is just plain malicious.

    @CSK:

    I hope the Eagles win regardless of the felon usurping the oval office. For one thing, I get tired of the same team winning the championship over and over, no matter how good or lucky they are.

    2
  51. charontwo says:

    @DK:

    Here is the Wired piece on this, found via piece at LGM:

    https://www.wired.com/story/elon-musk-lieutenant-gsa-ai-agency/

    The Wired piece is quoted at LGM, pretty concerning.

  52. gVOR10 says:

    In case it’s of interest, Robert Farley, LGM’s national security guy, posted good short summaries of how Mexico and Canada‘s relationships with us developed.

    Part of the moral, my words, not Farley’s, is that all in all, as big, overbearing neighbors go, we’ve been pretty decent. Certainly better than, say, Russia and Poland. And profit from the resulting good relations. All good things …

    2
  53. charontwo says:
  54. just nutha says:

    @CSK: The owners probably care nothing about racism except to the extent that it affects their bottom line. With Trump in office, racism probably pays again. Why not show their approval and remove the end zone signs?

    2
  55. DK says:

    @charontwo:

    The Wired piece is quoted at LGM, pretty concerning.

    Very, very, very concerning.

    Unelected illegal immigrant oligarch Musk and his unqualified GenZ minions should be arrested, frankly. They are rooting through code and stealing Americans’ sensitive, private data in breach of federal law, and while using unsecured private communication channels. They are also illegally exposing federal employees to potential doxxing and/or foreign hacking. It’s all criminal and dangerous, and I’m glad Musk, Bessent et al are being sued.

    7
  56. CSK says:

    All 67 victims of the plane-heli crash have been recovered from the Potomac. May they rest in peace.

    9
  57. Kathy says:

    @charontwo:

    It sounds almost as though they’re getting the federal government ready for an IPO. I wonder who they have in mind as the new owner.

    @gVOR10:

    Leaves out a lot of early history, specifically the Texas matter (enough blame for both sides) and the Mexican American War.

  58. Rob1 says:

    @charontwo: @DK:

    Unelected illegal immigrant oligarch Musk and his unqualified GenZ minions should be arrested, frankly.

    Yes, they should.

    5
  59. CSK says:

    There has been a school (adult education) shooting in Sweden. At least 10 are dead, including the gunman.

  60. Connor says:

    Not having a good couple weeks, are you guys? Valium would have helped this bash….

    Quick question, if consumers bear all the cost of tariffs, why is the left always raging about taxing corporations?

  61. Kathy says:

    Meantime in the North Pole, ice is melting.

    I don’t see how it can be any worse than the pole warming up enough for ice to melt in winter, but I’m afraid over the next few years we’ll all have a chance to find out.

    2
  62. Bobert says:

    @Connor:
    Because taxes on “raging” profits will have little to no impact on consumer prices.

    Opps, did it again, fell into the Troll Trap, Sorry.

    5
  63. Kathy says:

    Maybe there’s no one so stupid as the one who thinks they’re asking a very clever gotcha question… And for a moment there, it seemed the troll bots were improving. Maybe it was the spam bots. They all look alike to me.

    On other things, I had a rather evil thought.

    Suppose in the future patients being taken to the hospital in an ambulance could have a quick blood analysis that requires only a small amount of blood. Next suppose a story mentioning this calls the blood analyzer something like “LIS”* for some reason…

    I can’t believe I only now thought of it.

    *Laboratory Information System.

    2
  64. Jay L Gischer says:

    @DK: I do not think you are wrong about Sanders (and his supporters) behavior after losing to Hillary. I think you are completely accurate. It was, and is, a big problem. All voters are the same, and their votes count the same, and there is nothing illegitimate about differences of opinion.

    The point I am making is more about what many (certainly not all) MAGA want. It turns out that they want something similar to what I want. But they don’t know me, or they don’t trust me, because it has been pounded into them (as @JimBrown32 so brilliantly described recently) that I am an evil babykiller. The ones in my class that know me, know that isn’t true about me, so I could maybe convince them. However, I would make a terrible, terrible politician. It wouldn’t scale.

    3
  65. Jay L Gischer says:

    @EddieInDR: Look, I know you and @Beth have been harmed. I do not wish for that harm. I do not endorse it. I do not condone it.

    I also know that you don’t know the people that I know. Not at all. Some are nasty pieces of work, and some are definitely not. And many of them have racial attitudes that could maybe use some adjustment. Hell, I have had some, and probably will discover some more as time goes on.

    AND, the Puerto Rican guy who was student body president our senior year (and the CEO of a small tech firm here in Silicon Valley) tells me that the only really questionable treatment he got was a lot of harassment (from the school board) about his hair (which was a very strange flat afro). His mother apparently went on the warpath about it. But that was it.

    I continue to think that there is political opportunity here. I have no idea if that will be realized.

    I just watched the first class of Robert Reich’s “Wealth and Poverty”. He gives data that drives my reasoning. Well worth the time, I think: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLOLArO56vjuoeaIPzKQibBDbx2m_Rfsit

    2
  66. Monala says:

    @MarkedMan: the goals are also contradictory. If the goal is to encourage American manufacturing and it succeeds, then much of the revenue from the tariffs disappears.

    1
  67. Monala says:

    @Gavin: another common Republican false belief (besides bosses being benevolent) is that wealthy people have no need for more money and therefore no desire for more, and so can’t be corrupted. Thus, Trump, Musk, et al are incorruptible. They manage to hold this idea in their heads while watching and cheering them on as they do all kinds of things to increase their wealth.

    4
  68. DK says:

    @Connor: Can’t speak for all, but every day I’m not pathetically simping for a morbidly-obese rapist hated across the globe is a great day. Thus, I have no need to visit rightwing blogs to whine and cry like you do here, desperately seeking approval from folks happier, healthier, and more successful than you.

    Sorry the anti-Trump truth bombs here trigger your bitter wittle incel feewings. Maybe try marijuana edibles?

    8
  69. CSK says:

    Trump has instructed his advisors that if he’s assassinated, Iran is to be “obliterated.”

    I didn’t realize he knew such big words.

    1
  70. DK says:

    @Monala:

    They manage to hold this idea in their heads while watching and cheering them on as they do all kinds of things to increase their wealth.

    Deep down, Trump and Musk both know they have little to offer except their wealth. Their personalities suck. They are creepy and very weird (in the bad way). They are emotionally and physically unattractive; doubly so for Musk — at least Trump’s kids seem to like him, although that would likely dry up too sans the coin.

    Both men are spoiled nepo babies who were poorly parented, never required to developed the emotional intelligence or soft skills necessary to attract real relationships. Without having been born into money, they’d have next-to-nothing all else being equal — no marketable talent, no social cachet, and certainly none of their sad sack bootlicking supporters. It’s sad, really.

    5
  71. Kathy says:

    @CSK:

    Why should Iran be held responsible when a disillusioned MAGAt, like the one who already tried, does the tinpot tyrant in?

    2
  72. CSK says:

    @Kathy:

    The MAGAs will blame the Deep State.

    1
  73. just nutha says:

    @Connor: I’m sorry that you feel a need to self-medicate. Hope you can get the help you need.

    1
  74. dazedandconfused says:

    @CSK:

    Kendrick Lamar has been leadeth into temptation.

    1
  75. Jax says:

    I don’t really “hate” anyone in this world…..I find some distasteful….but “hate” is a strong word.

    However…..I hate Donald Trump, and I’ve hated him since the 90’s, long before it was “cool” to hate Donald Trump. I could never understand why so many people couldn’t see what an awful person he was. All the way thru, to his core, that man cares for no one but himself.

    And now…..I hate Elon Musk. I hate them both with the fire of 10,000 suns, and if I actually COULD, I would launch them both INTO the sun, and do humanity a favor.

    What a couple of chodes. Department of Education AND OSHA. He likes voters dumb and preferably dead, their families left on the streets, indeed. OSHA’s about the only thing that keeps the oil field safe. I mean, there’s some dumb shit, granted, but all that dumb shit is there because at some point, SOMEONE DIED.

    And it’s only Tuesday.

    5
  76. Stormy Dragon says:

    @Jay L Gischer:

    I’m reminded of how most people who abuse children were themselves abused as children.

    Perhaps they deserve some pity, but that just change the necessity of holding them responsible for their crimes.

    3
  77. Daryl says:

    @Jax:

    OSHA’s about the only thing that keeps the oil field safe.

    De-regulation is a great catch phrase. People don’t realize what it really means. Not just OSHA. These idiots want to do away with ADA. WTF???

    5
  78. Daryl says:

    @CSK:
    Explain how these morons will obliterate Iran?

    1
  79. Kathy says:

    I hope those in the uncommitted movement in the primaries, and who wouldn’t vote for Biden for his stance on Gaza, now believe that whoever bad Biden may have been the felon rapist is much worse.

    He’s talking ethnic cleansing and, for some ineffable reason, taking over Gaza.

    3
  80. Grumpy realist says:

    Yet another email from OPM trying to scare us all into quitting. They’r e also trying to stampede us into “going back into the office” which is brain dead when you look at the number of employees in our organization (14,000) as opposed to the number of office seats available. (7100) (I checked my arrangement—I’m under our union-bargained arrangement which allows remote work/telework. I expect OPM to attempt to break that as well.)

    2
  81. Kathy says:

    @Daryl:

    Depends on what kind of command and control exists for ICBMs, SLBMs, and tactical nukes, and which weapons can be re-targeted to strike Iran.

    Of course, the fallout and radiation would affect multiple countries, depending largely on wind and precipitation patterns, and how these are disrupted. The many nukes needed to carry this out might kick up enough dust, ejecta, and particulates to lower global temperatures even if not to cause a full blown nuclear winter.

    That’s too much of a regional and global disaster for one tiny man’s vanity and the acts of one disillusioned MAGAt.

  82. EddieInDR says:

    @Jay L Gischer:

    With all due respect, Jay. You completely ignored the point of my rebuttal. These people willingly voted for a con man, convicted felon rapist. Now they’re claiming “they didn’t vote for that. “. You’re excusing their willful ignorance by saying that they were “swindled“. You are completely letting them off the hook for their decisions now that they have regrets.

    No. They don’t get to use that as an excuse. If they were swindled, it’s because they did so willingly. They chose to ignore J6, they chose to ignore the multi count conviction, they chose to ignore the multiple fraud liabilities. They chose to ignore that inflation was a global crisis in which the US did better than every other nation. They chose to ignore that high egg prices were because of a bird flu.

    They were not swindled. They made a choice. And now they don’t want to own their choice, and you’re excusing it.

    I’ll just leave it at that, as it’s obvious you do not want to engage a little bit with that very specific point.

    6
  83. Beth says:

    @Grumpy realist:

    I can’t remember where I saw it, but apparently the idiots running OPM found some case law or regulatory decisions that they claim say that all they have to do is declare an employment/union contractual provision “inherently illegal” (or something substantially similar) and that acts like a magic word talisman that allows them to void the provisions they don’t like, particularly work from home.

    3
  84. Gavin says:

    @Connor:
    Find purpose and get off this forum’s collective jock.

  85. Michael Reynolds says:

    @Connor:
    WTF are you talking about, Drew? We know the costs go to the consumers, and so does Trump apparently as he is forecasting rising inflation. Is that what you voted for? How about occupying Gaza. Good idea? How about threatening Mexico and Canada with tariffs then getting rolled and backing down a minute later? All cool with you? How about Elon having access to all your financial data? Part of the plan? Eh? Speak up and tell us what a genius your bumbling fuckwad is

    What do you figure is next? China buys some of Trump’s meme coin and those tariffs go away, too?

    2
  86. Michael Reynolds says:

    @CSK:

    Trump has instructed his advisors that if he’s assassinated, Iran is to be “obliterated.”

    Perilously close to a win-win. Of course it’d have to be JD giving the orders cuz dead men’s orders are vapor.

    1
  87. Michael Reynolds says:

    @Daryl:
    Oh, we can obliterate Iran. We can obliterate humanity. And that power is held by a guy who just got taken to the cleaners by Trudeau and Sheinbaum and wants to occupy Gaza with American troops.

    2
  88. Eusebio says:

    @Kathy:

    He’s talking ethnic cleansing and, for some ineffable reason, taking over Gaza.

    It’s madness. And we don’t have Mattis or Esper to give him an assessment of just the military implications. The current guy at Defense already effed up water release on the part of the Army Corps of Engineers. There’s no reason to have even a little confidence in him.

    3
  89. Beth says:

    @Jay L Gischer:

    I wish I could have your faith in humanity. But I don’t and I very much have been radicalized. Do you know what radicalized me? Walking into the first real estate closing I did after my medical/social/legal transition and having the male attorney, who had never seen me or talked to me on the phone say, “Oh, YOU’RE the attorney! I was wondering why you were here, I thought you were the assistant.” I’ve had that happen to me MULTIPLE FUCKING TIME SINCE. I’ve had younger male attorneys cut me off while I’m talking to explain to me exactly what I’m talking about. I’ve had men walk through me like I’m a six foot tall 200 pound ghost.

    I’ve learned three things from those experiences, 1. that whatever a man thinks about how women have it is wrong and likely all the women in his life a covering for him, 2. I should have known better. I spent the majority of my life observing women, not in a creepy way, but in a why am I excluded from this group way, and 3. intersectionality is very fucking real.

    It took me way to fucking long to get there, but I have finally realized places where I am wrong and where I can grow and learn. The average Trump voter is not some poor schmuck who got “swindled”. The average Trump voter is my in-laws. Comfortable white people who actively work to ignore reality. Who hide behind comfortable lies and hierarchies. Have my inlaws learned anything about trans people or queer people now that two of them are in their lives? Absolutely not. I went from being an amazing catch, a lawyer, a breadwinner (lol), a man who was going to take care of their daughter (she most definitely did not want such a man, LOLFUCKINGLOL) to an absolute piece of shit. My mother in law won’t touch me, like I’m radio active. My father in law is college educated. He worked hard and got himself moved up to middle management. He got fired during the 08 financial crisis. It was obvious that he was fired because he was old and expensive. He was convinced that he was going to get a new job no problem, cause he was white and male and knew his stuff. He never worked again. I knew instantly he was never going to work again. It was probably 2018 when he finally gave up.

    Here’s the the thing, when they start whining about how their social security checks don’t get sent out because one of Musk’s moron’s broke the computer, I’m going to laugh in their faces. The richest most powerful empire to ever exist, an empire that is rich and powerful because it convinced the provinces that they weren’t actually provinces, because it didn’t demand every single cent out of everyone else, is about to commit suicide because of these fucking assholes.

    My inlaws and the median Trump voter have allowed themselves to be convinced that if they just don’t think, they will somehow get that job. They’re going to get a job alright, a good hard screw job. Instead of spending the last 40 years actually spending money and time to update those computer systems, we got tax cuts for assholes. Paid for with the debt spending they all claim to hate. We could have had a balanced budget. But that would have meant slightly less defense spending and the rich actually paying taxes. But that is unacceptable to all of them.

    They have all been told, time and time again, by patient, kind, intelligent people. They have repeatedly CHOSEN to embrace the lies and simplicity the lies bring, instead of the messy doubt. I simply do not give a fuck if they get hurt. I am being forced to flee my home. I am watching friends flee and wonder if they will be allowed to return home or if they will get their passport taken. A friend (white) watched ICE raid her job. She wondered if she’d lose her job when the company folded because they can’t get people to work anymore. She went home.

    There is a non-negligible chance that Musk and his kids will either break something that can’t be fixed or they will introduce a flaw that will be exploded by a foreign bad actor. There’s also a non-negligible chance they they are simply straight up looting the government now. It’s all in the open and we’re all fucked.

    I’ve started telling cis-hets, when they make the concerned faces at me, that as soon as the Republicans are done with me, they will come for you. I absolutely refuse to comfort them. I refuse to comfort the guy I talked to who said he’s on hormone therapy for testicular cancer, when I told him to immediately contact his dr because that’s going away. Not because they will make it illegal for him, but because they will start arresting doctors for prescribing it to trans people and drs will stop taking any fucking chances. Women are going to die horrible deaths.

    All so people can continue to believe comfortable lies. Fuck ’em.

    @EddieInDR:

    There is a very strong chance that once we get to the UK, I’m going to go back to school and get another degree, likely in economics, perhaps economics and aesthetics (yes, I am a masochist). once I’m armed with that knowledge, everytime someone starts whining (should I now be saying whinging) about “inflation”, I’m going to stick my finger through their left eye.

    @Connor:

    I can’t wait to see you on the news after you break your neck sucking your own dick.

    @CSK:

    I genuinely hope that if/when Trump orders a nuclear strike someone in the room just shoots him in the face instead of accepting that order.

    5
  90. CSK says:

    Pam Bondi is the new U.S. Atty General, 54-46 vote.

    1
  91. charontwo says:
  92. charontwo says:

    @Beth:

    It’s possible Musk’s kiddies deliberately created backdoors to the programs that Musk could use later at any time to do whatever. Perhaps created in a sloppy enough way that foreign or domestic bad actors might find them, too.

    No documentation, maybe – how to even know they are there?

    3
  93. steve says:

    Connor doesnt believe we should taxing corporations and that much of that tax falls on consumers. Yet he supports tariffs, which again fall moistly on the consumer. The difference? Trump supports tariffs. When you are in the cult (of personality) the only necessary consistency is that you always support whatever Trump wants.

    Steve

    2
  94. Jax says:

    The worst part is I’m probably going to have to sell my ranch. I really don’t have to be here anymore. Canadian friends, let me know….there are ranches I can take my cattle, but how much do I have to spend?

    It’s not really clear.

    2
  95. Grumpy realist says:

    @charontwo: @Beth: what’s even more ironic is that today I received the standard yearly email haranguing me about taking my cybersecurity training. I’d love to be able to say:” why don’t you get those idiots out of OPM and the Treasury if you’re so worried about it?”

    Beth, I hope you find a great place to stay in the U.K. and that the weather isn’t too unbearable. I stuck it out for two winters after which I moved back to the states.

    1
  96. Beth says:

    @charontwo:

    I think that has to be an assumption moving forward. Not in a conspiratorial sense, but in a liability sense.

    @Jax:

    That makes me sad and I fully understand.

    1
  97. steve says:

    Trump thinks we should take over and run Gaza after talking with Netanyahu. Of course Israel is willing to have US soldiers die for them and have the US pay to clean the place up. However, one fo the last things the US should want to do is put our military into Gaza.

    https://www.newsweek.com/trump-palestinians-will-thrilled-get-relocated-gaza-homeland-2026136

    Steve

    1
  98. Jim Whyte 32 says:

    @DK: That would require a white liberal politician, to, you know, show up in black and brown spaces in something other than an election year and somewhere other than the oldest Black Church in town. Something none of them, save Clinton & Biden showed any interest in doing.

    2
  99. Jim Whyte 32 says:

    @EddieInDR: I actually disagree, a very large portion of the population has little to no defense against high-grade propaganda. College education provides a modest layer as does travel–particularly when done in one’s formative years. That means there is a large, significant portion of the nation vulnerable as most Americans don’t go to college let along travel out of their county or state that often.

    The swindle is not about a Trump, they know who he is. The swindle, is about the depravity of Democrats, urban decay, and the evil of government. Things many of these people have very little lived experience with–but trust their leaders are providing them correct information about.

    I’m mean, it has to true if the pastor says it, local tv says it, radio hosts says it, YouTube and FB people that look and sound like me say it– right?

    This is not to say the taste shouldn’t be slapped out of their mouth, but the danger in a fight like this is in becoming identified with the anger of the other side. Many of these people have psychologically become a danger to themselves as well as the rest of us. Theyre convinced that burning their house down is the only way to fix a “decadent” nation that mostly exists in images and videos. They are collateral damage, the real adversary are the people that know better but would weaponize simple people against their countrymen for money and power.

    3
  100. Beth says:

    @Jim Whyte 32:

    Where’s the in.

  101. charontwo says:

    Cheryl Rofer just posted an explainer at LGM:

    https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2025/02/some-computer-explanations

    I see Charlie Warzel and Chris Hays on Bluesky asking for help in understanding why some of us have our hair on fire about the Musk boys messing with the computers. And even some indications here at LGM that people don’t understand.

    So let me give it a try

    snip

    Noting that Wired magazine identifies one kiddie as having root level access (e.g., ultimate admin privileges):

    They are said to be rewriting code. They can do that with “write” permission, but not with the lesser “read” permission. With “admin” permission, they can alter things about the code, like who is allowed to access it. To avoid mistakes when rewriting code, it is done on a computer that isn’t connected to anything, debug, check it several ways to make sure it does what you want it to do and no more, and after a great many checks, put it on the system. Remember the uproar when the Obamacare website didn’t work at first? They didn’t do enough checking before they put it up. This is worse.

    The big things that can go wrong:

    The system crashes

    The system doesn’t crash, but doesn’t do things correctly

    If the computer is connected to other computers, it messes them up

    Holes are opened up that allow security breaches

    The computers that the Musk boys have taken over contain enormous databases with information about individuals – Social Security numbers, addresses, personnel evaluations, security investigations, their Social Security payment history, much more. It’s been reported that the boys are downloading information to commercial servers. That opens the data to hacking. Deletion of data could mean people won’t get their Social Security checks.

    Those payment computers are connected to other computers across the government that send them the information for payments. Those connections can be used to get into those other computers and mess with them. More innocently, code-writing on one computer can interfere with those connections.

    Musk is himself a government contractor, so all this is very useful to his government-funded enterprises. Imagine having access to the computers that write your and your competitors’ checks! Plus he talks to Vladimir Putin regularly. There are probably lovely young woman spies waiting outside the Treasury building to tell the boys how smart and sexy they are.

    I can imagine computer security people laying their heads down on their desks and crying. Musk attached some sort of email function that opened the system to whomever, and probably there are more openings by now. All sorts of actors could be rummaging around and leaving malware. I don’t know how this gets cleaned up, not to mention the databases that may be stolen. I hope there are backups in secure places.

  102. SC_Birdflyte says:

    @Kathy: Here in South Carolina, we recently had two separate winter storms (complete with snow and ice) due in part to accelerated loss of polar ice. The future looks grim. When we lived in Pennsylvania and Wisconsin, they had snow removal capability. This area has none.

    1
  103. JohnSF says:

    @Kathy:
    I recall a study from some years past.
    It appears quite possible to effectively eliminate Iran without disastrous global, or even regional, environmental or radiological consequences.
    Using sub-megaton weapons with a combination of about up to dozen high air-burst at major area targets, deep-penetrator impactors at key installations, and a few near-ground at main military and economic sites.
    Roughly par total global/regional effect as the Hiroshima/Nagasaki operations.

    Of course, the name of the US would stink in global history for centuries, over the deaths of millions.
    But what’s that to a Trump?

    1