‘We Live in a Foreign Country Now’
A stark observation.
Don Moynihan, a Professor at the Ford School of Public Policy at the University of Michigan, makes a bold declaration:
[W]e don’t live in America any longer. The truth is, we live in a foreign country now. Our idea of America — the one you grew up with if you were born here, or that drew you to this country if you were an immigrant — and the reality of America today, well, these are different places.
While admitting that this sounds “alarmist,” he provides evidence for his assertion:
- The President has politicized the Department of Justice and threatens to unleash the power of the federal government on his political enemies. For example, he has promised to punish law firms that provide legal support for his opponents, Now, many are no longer willing to do so.
- Critics who once held security clearances or security details have them removed.
- Organizations fearful of threats from the President preemptively erase ideas, or silence dissenting voices.
- The President has suggested that critics are supporters of terrorism, using vague language that allows him to threaten nonprofits, or promise to deport protest leaders, including green card holders.
- Words and ideas are banned. Censors rifle their way through government documents and websites to remove them. Federal spaces, like schools on military bases, are purged of books that even mildly hint at the idea that diversity is a good thing. Executive orders that purge these ideas tend to be ambiguous, leading organizations to respond broadly and to self-censor.
- Funding of research ideas is being taken away from research experts and handed to political appointees who are defunding the ideas they dislike. Campus officials are trying to decide how to respond to government orders to remove ideas.
- The President has pardoned militant supporters who engaged in violence to try to reverse the outcome of a previous election, and demoted officials who investigated those supporters.
- The President and the richest man in the world routinely make wildly dishonest claims about the government they are running. Critics of the employees of the richest man in the world can expect to be threatened with prosecution from the federal government. The richest man in the world purges ideas or even methods of disseminating ideas from the platform he owns. Qualified and credible voices who know the inner workings of are afraid to publicly expose his failures. They are threatened with firing if they explain to the public about the damage being done, or fired even when its their job to do so.
- Elected officials are not exempt from such threats. The President’s opponents face threat of investigation, while even his supporters fear to disagree with him. They also fear criticizing the richest man in the world, even though his actions in destroying much of the government are widely unpopular.
- The work of the richest man in the world is exempted from open records laws. We really don’t know what he is doing, and members of Congress refuse to ask him in public. And the employees charged with responding to open records requests are being fired in some agencies.
- Public employees are illegally purged if they are viewed as disloyal to the new regime. This includes top-ranking officers in the military, and the lawyers in government who set the boundaries for what a President can do. Within a few weeks, this has started to seem normal, and inevitable. The media coverage often fails to mention how the President is acting illegally.
- Some of those are purged because of their gender identity, or because they are associated with ideas now deemed unfashionable, or even for going to a meeting where those ideas are discussed. The government has created tip lines to help identify the disfavored.
- Individual journalists whose job it is to hold the President accountable know that they will face a torrent of abuse if they are critical. The richest man in the world might call for a journalist to be fired, falsely accuse media organizations of secretly being paid by shadowy pro-government forces, or sue them to drain resources. Their organization may be banned from press events if it is deemed insufficiently supportive of the President, replaced by partisan outlets who only provide uncritical propaganda.
- Some media companies find excuses to bribe the President on the flimsiest of pretexts, humoring his demands for massive financial compensation when faced with normal journalistic practice, because their corporate owners fear the President’s retribution. Corporations have become accustomed to making multi-million contributions to the President as a form of protection money for their businesses.
- The judges who provide the last, best hope of constraining the President and the richest man in the world face a historic wave of threats. Judges in the DC area had pizzas mailed anonymously to their homes, to communicate that their address is known to potential attackers.
- More and more people are turning to secure private apps to communicate, reflecting worries about state surveillance.
and observes,
Normally, we treat each bullet point as a separate story. But they are all connected. We are witnessing an extraordinarily broad chilling effect in American society. It is not just what you want to say, but what you are allowed to ask. It is about both formal government actions and informal threats, with threats of professional ruin or even violence from the President’s supporters. It is about both censorship and self-censorship. It is about a sense of collective fear.
There’s quite a bit more at the link.
This is absolutely not alarmist at all. I am trying to find a way to articulate these facts in a way that I can break through to people; mostly other americans, but also some of the Brits i’m dealing with.
The thing is, we let ourselves get into a frog/boiling water situation. Where was it that I saw that we thought we won the cold war in 1989, but we actually lost it in 2024. I think that’s accurate. I suspect that devoid of an external enemy, we turned on ourselves.
I don’t think there is some grand unifying conspiracy either. I suspect that Regan showed the GOP the tools and they slowly ratcheted themselves rightward. First they expelled liberal Republicans and once they accomplished that they worked on ratcheting rightward for various reasons. On top of that the Tech Bros got it into their heads that THEY were the masters of the universe and they began to atomize and isolate us at first to make money, then to stroke their egos, then to take power. Along side this the Christianists moved to take power. While intentionally and unintentionally, Rightwing media made their viewers stupider and unwilling to deal with reality.
While on the other side, the leftier dems celebrated the real, actual, social and legal progress of Black People, Women, LGBT people and other racial and religious minorities. The problem was, the Dem coalition was still fundamentally a left-right coalition. But GOP conservatives made the words “Liberal” and “conservative” toxic. It didn’t help the Dems bought into this framing. The Liberals became “Progressives” and the conservatives became “Centrists” or “Moderates”. The problem is that the Centrists/Moderates can’t really call themselves conservatives because they would get attacked from every side. If they were actually Centrist/.Moderate they would have moved left like I did. The Dems did not expel Conservatives from the party like the GOP did to their Liberals. Respectfully, you Dr. Joyner and I should not be in a party together. I think we like each other and we’re certainly respectful enough that we could have a very enjoyable dinner together, but our politics are fundamentally different.
That means we end up spending more time pulling against each other instead of our common enemy; a GOP that has become so fundamentalist in their idiotic thinking that they are about to destroy our country so they can rule the shit heap.
I think the final warning sign was 2016. Hillary Clinton would have, FUNDAMENTALLY, made a fine president. But we were so busy fighting the wrong battles that a shark in human form understood, not in a conscious way, that they could take over the weakened, idiotic, GOP and did. The only thing that stopped that was Trump was too stupid to realize just what he was capable of, uniting the increasingly stupid, insane, racist, lying GOP with the radicalizing oligarch Tech Bros and Dominionists. Covid and the 2020 election was like when a star runs out of fuel and blows off its atmosphere and goes supernova. Trump consciously realized just a moment too late just what he had actually accomplished.
Biden, in his ultimate failure, failed to understand this. The ghost of Reagan and 40 years of GOP propaganda had poisoned him and he lost by winning. Now we have the unity of Trump/Musk/Vought running the show. Co-equals in the sense that they all understand that their interests are unified while the rest of us are mourning a place that died in 2003.
I fear for Prof. Joyner and OTB.
@Beth:
One of my ongoing disappointments with America’s electorate is how the 2008 primaries turned out. My view is that HRC would have had a much clearer understanding of just what kind of people make up the GOP, and would not have been so accommodating and naive as Obama. Plus, Obama was always so focused on not fitting any “angry black man” stereotype which was a real handicap.
(The Clintons had beaucoup personal experience of Republicans. Plus, of course, HRC was simply more politically experienced).
A great summary from Moynihan, James. Thanks for posting.
@charontwo:
Obama is thought of as a big old lefty. Maybe he was actually way more of a Conservative, but couldn’t claim that partly because of the wash of propaganda making the term toxic and that he just couldn’t engage in the sort of lying required to be a Conservative.
@charontwo: Let’s not forget how Hillary got crucified for (correctly) labeling a significant portion of Trump supporters as deplorable. I don’t think Hillary was any better prepared to deal with Republican bad faith and enmity, especially given the mainstream media’s default position that both sides are bad. In addition, the Beltway media’s hatred of Bill Clinton would have been more pronounced in 2008 than it was in 2016, including the hypocritical notion that Hillary should have divorced Bill for his infidelity. Hypocritical because had she divorced she would have been accused of failing to live up to her wedding vows. And given the fact that GW Bush’s father preceded Bill Clinton, there was a sense that America was giving way to political dynasties if the presidential succession was going to be Bush-Clinton-Bush-Clinton. The American electorate’s failure in 2008 had nothing to do with Obama, and everything to do with failing to learn the lesson that the country and the world cannot afford to have a clown as POTUS.
Dr Joyner, when the inevitable shift of power reverts back to Dems, pay back will be a m fer. It reminds me of the famous quote by Martin Niemoller which I will slightly paraphrase:
“First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the MAGAs and I said “Finally, you’re here!!!! The Rasmussens on the corner. Crazy neo Nazi MAGA, then of course there’s old man Porter who is a complete nut case. Make sure you take them first. Next, almost equally cuckoo are the Andersons in the big red house Jan 6 freaks. and…”
The ship of state will keep afloat long enough for the Dems to gain power and exact huge revenge and must destroy any vestige of MAGA influence in government. Fire ANYONE who Trump appointed or who overtly supported Trump flaunting government policy. In short a great purge necessitated by the greatest domestic threat to the Union since Jefferson Davis.
Of course because we are sweet, law loving liberal waifs who don’t believe in dirtying our fists, we will roll over since we don’t have the guts to kick the GOP in the nuts.
For example, why can’t the Dems accuse Grump of a DEI hire in Kashyap Patel. Surely, there has to be a smarter, more qualified white male than this Indian. Because as every good MAGAt knows an Indian can’t possibly be more qualified than a white man since that was the whole raison d’etre to vote for Yrump over the “worthless Indian” Kamala. So what gives MAGA? You defend the inferior Kashyap the same way those dumb libs defended Harris: saying he is the most qualified. So when libs said that, you accuse us as DEI. When your boy picks Kashyap over, let’s face it, superior white male Nordic Aryan Prussian competitors, you have to admit Patel was a TDS hire. And what is a TDS hire you ask?
A Trump Diiick Sucker hire like all the rest.
@The Q:
If it isn’t 100% clear yet, that’s not the plan, my man.
Who is going to stop the GOP from rigging elections Orbán style? A GOP majority Congress?
If (and that’s a real “if”) the Dems regain power, it will have been the result of a series of hard-won fights.
@The Q:
Tbh I am hoping there will be elections in 4 years. I don’t think that’s the GOP plan.
@drj:
Things will need to get really bad really fast for the D to have a realistic chance to regain power.
If so, there would be a lot of suffering, but just look at Ukraine to see the alternative is even worse, what the Ukrainians are willing to suffer to avoid that alternative.
@Min:
The plan is to hold the sort of elections they have in Hungary and Russia.
The OP is not an exaggeration at all. It’s why I’m leaving. I did not sign up to be a villain. I did not sign up to be a toady. And I long ago gave up lying. I find it sickening to walk around amongst people who have actively conspired to destroy my country. I so look forward to being able to walk down a street in London or Nice or Granada without knowing that I’m amongst MAGA traitors.
I have kids in the US or I’d renounce my citizenship.
All that said, not all is lost. We lost an election by a hair. We still have tools at our disposal. We still have money. We still have a voice. The question in my mind is whether Democrats can fight. So far, no. We are a party of lawyers and teachers and college kids, a party of disparate minorities too easily distracted, too easily divided. See: Gaza.
We suffer from the endemic lawyer/teacher/student problem of being unable to see the forest for the trees. We have no vision of the future. We have no plan of battle. We are the precious, the ineffectual, the easily-offended, the nitpickers. Our goals are good as far as they go, but we cripple ourselves through lack of discipline, lack of leadership, lack of tolerance for diversity of opinion. The problem is not just: them. We are the problem we need to fix before we can fight them.
There are things we can do right now. But first we need to pull our heads out of our asses, cut the elitist bullshit, stop acting like lawyers/teachers/students, formulate a vision of the future that is not just nostalgia, devise a strategy and implement it with realistic tactics. And anyone who cannot toe the line, anyone who cannot sublimate their own narrow issue for the greater good, should be invited to fuck off and form their own party.
@Beth:
Is it a conspiracy if it isn’t secret? Read Jane Mayer’s Dark Money, published in 2017 and apparently out with a new, post Trump, preface. From the B&N blurb:
The Kochs, Scaifes, and Olins Mayer wrote about are being replaced by the DeVos/Princes, Musk, Thiel, the Mercers, etc., etc., a new generation of glibertarian assholes.
From the early ’30s we had a contest of ideas on a reasonably level playing field. Keynes and liberalism won convincingly and produced unrivaled freedom and prosperity, here and in much of the world. Since the ’60s the Billionaire Boys Club have largely succeeded in a program of buying back victory for their side. Look at the Supreme Court.
Trump recently said maybe there will be a recession but that is the cost of getting to his new improved future. Translation: I know what I am doing will hurt people, but I will keep doing it anyway.
Stock market seems to think so, S&P 500 off 2% a few minutes ago.
Or maybe it just knows future weapons exports are screwed, given U.S. retaining the ability to cripple their use for political reasons, as demonstrated by current fucking over of Ukraine.
I think the author is correct. However, I think this mostly reflects a fundamental weakness in our govt structure. In theory and president could have done what Trump is doing if they wanted, but conditions are ideal right now for him to succeed. James and Steve may disagree but it seems to me we really have very few limits o n the power of POTUS. We have impeachment but no way to reach the supermajority required. In theory Congress had the power of the purse but that has been challenged and the outcome really isn’t clear because the only other check on the power of POTUS is the courts, and they are stacked in favor of POTUS. While I think we can expect some rulings against the most egregious acts of Trump I expect them to broadly support whatever he does. After the court decision that POTUS is immune to prosecution for any act or discussion with the DOJ, they have made it clear they support nearly unlimited power by POTUS.
The other condition that made all of this possible is the emergence of Musk. His level of wealth is far above anyone else in the world, or at least it was until the recent drop in Tesla. That means that he can influence and alter what people do and say solely based upon his ability to use money to leverage his threats. The wealthy had largely been content to stay in the background and use their money to influence things but now they are more directly involving themselves. In this case one billionaire has turned over the reforming of the government to an even richer(est) billionaire and we arent even allowed to know what they are doing. But again, with our form of govt, there isn’t much to stop POTUS from doing this.
Steve
But her emails.
But eggs were pricey, and pronouns are just so terrifying.
@Daryl:
Pronouns were not terrifying, but they were obnoxious. They were an unnecessarily alienating bit of talking down to people for no reason. And when our Twitter PC enforcers called people bigots for failing to instantly fall in line, that made enemies. It’s not the only case of Dems foolishly irritating and alienating people who could have been our voters, but it is definitely one of them.
We need to get it through our heads that we did to them what they are now doing to us: making people feel that their country is no longer theirs.
@steve:
There have been checks on past presidents that do not work on the current triumvirate.
Past presidents have been forced by Congress to spend money that they impounded. This Congress is compliant, being intimidated by Trump’s normalization of violence and other harassment (to the extent they are not just willing accomplices). Past presidents would not have had Congress permit them to simply disband Federal agencies, or ignore laws.
Past Congress’s could, at least theoretically, use inherent contempt, something we will not see from the current compliers.
The politicized DOJ controlled by Trump etc., is something new, something that would not previously been tolerated. So the courts can’t use U.S. marshals to enforce contempt findings, another GOP fascist innovation.
Plus the courts, SCOTUS especially, seem to like unchecked presidential power, now that the GOP is making a play for perpetual control.
Following up on @gVOR10:, Axios reports that POST election, outside groups supporting Trump have raised half a billion dollars they can use to run ads, support primary challengers, and generally support the Trump agenda.
This is via Political Wire who also report Ruth Marcus has left WAPO over Lewis killing a column of hers critical of Bezos’ makeover of the Opinion section. .
@Michael Reynolds:
“We” didn’t do that. FOX/GOP did that. What “we” need to do is figure out how to defend people attacked by GOPs without elevating the GOP attacks to national issues.
Example: Dems didn’t push CRT in K-12. There was no CRT in K-12. Then Christopher Rufo managed to make a stink out of CRT, broadening his usage of the term to cover anything he didn’t like. That leaves Dems trying to defend the schools against ill-defined something, which only served to amplify the issue. But what are “we” to do? Let MAGA savage teachers and staff?
@Michael Reynolds: Michael, you have a personal hurt here, which you have described in the past. Of course you take these things personally. I understand that. I don’t blame you. I want you to know that I see you.
AND, what has happened is that we are outgunned in the propaganda space. Heavily outgunned. Right-wing propaganda can take a statement by some person nobody has ever heard of and make it a national outrage. And just keep feeding that outrage.
And the people that say these exaggerated versions of things you and I might say? They are operating from either their own personal hurt, or an empathetic sense of hurt, or out of a sense of a need to gain attention and status. Picking fights is what they want, and the right-wing propaganda operating gives it to them.
@gVOR10: @Jay L Gischer:
Oh, FFS. This inability to admit error is every bit as stupid as MAGAts refusing same.
Don’t tell me what THEY did, we know what THEY did. We started with 50% of the population, plenty of cash, MSNBC, and a decent candidate, and yet we lost to a fucking goon. How much longer are you going to stick your heads in the sand? How much longer does the denial stage have to go on? This helpless, waaaah, they’re mean, is for losers.
Unbelievable. We lost to a fucking moron and yet, amazingly, we did absolutely NOTHING wrong.
You know, we’re supposed to be the smart ones. We’re supposed to be the honest ones, the ones dealing in facts. Jesus Christ, denial and amateur psychoanalysis.
Here is a Bluesky 14 post thread on Trump-Putin:
https://bsky.app/profile/glandsbergis.bsky.social/post/3ljpy7lrk6k25
https://bsky.app/profile/glandsbergis.bsky.social/post/3ljpy7lsfjk25
I first tried posting all 14 skeets and got an error message, I will try a few more below:
@Michael Reynolds:
When they started putting pronouns on emails, at the firm I recently retired from, I ridiculed it and refused.
Having said that I’ll be damned if I’m going to go out of my way to placate people who are bothered by something so mind-numbingly trivial.
I sense this runs deeper for you than I understand. So apologies, but otherwise this seems like Olympic level both-siderism. J6 versus they/them…okay.
@Michael Reynolds:
Here is something from 2017 that I think still valid, Lakoff and “framing”.
“Lakoff“
@charontwo:
So the message is that Democrats should out-lie the liars???
I mean, I’ve said forever that Democrats suck at messaging.
But everything from Trump and the right wing echo chamber is a lie.
No messaging can overcome a the onslaught of propaganda like we’ve seen.
Conmen succeed for a reason.
@Daryl:
Personally, I think the D need to be more openly and aggressively oppositional, show some fight. Voters like standing up for something, doing something. Make some noise.
@Michael Reynolds:
Boo effing hoo. This notion people voted against Harris and Democrats because of some anonymous Twitter account is the biggest load of crap excuse-making hogwash in politics today.
92% of black women voted for Harris. 88% of Jewish women voted for harris. 85% of LGBT voters voted for harris. 78% of black men voted for Harris. 72% of Jewish men voted for Harris.
We all had the same options. We’ve all heard about pronoun stuff. We’ve all been irritated by people online. We’ve all been called a bigot from time to time. So what? Some of us have been called n****r and f***t all of our lives.
We still didn’t vote for fascism.
They were alienated by pronouns? Sorry, I don’t buy it. What really happened is Trumpers voted to hurt those they deem their lessers — because Trumpers’ ethics, intelligence, and morals are deficient. And they should be made to own the consequences — including the karmic boomerangs — rather than assisted in their whack attempts to blame somebody else. These big macho anti-queer alpha male had their fwagile feewings hurt on Twitter by pronouns…nice ex post facto excuse, but no. They are full of crap.
The lame, blame-shifting excuses Trumpers come up with to justify their indefensible support of a manifestly unqualified rapist buffoon is malarkey. They have full responsibility for their selfish, stupid politics.
@charontwo:
X1,000
@Michael Reynolds:
This is why I’m not laving the country like you, Beth and EddieInDR. I don’t think Trump has the strength to consolidate power. Trump barely won, and the shit he’s doing isn’t popular.
And I specifically say Trump because there’s no one else in that party that can rally people that way. And he’s about 80 years old, and not in great health. Shits gonna be bad, and then worse, but there’s a limiting factor.
There will be elections in the future, Even in Hungary they have elections. They rig the elections, but they have them. So far, there’s not a peep about “election reform” from the Trump administration, and they’re focusing on the amazingly unpopular goal of the Next Great Recession.
Republicans lawmakers are already cancelling town hall meetings and are hiding from their voters.
I’m really impressed by their ability to do nothing. Top notch nothinging out of them.
I’m going to just go out on a limb and say that part of that vision for the future has to include a basic principle of treating people with respect. A basic belief that people should be free to live their lives without constant harassment at work, or attacks by the state. That is the core belief of the Democratic Party and a vision of America going forward, rooted in the Patriot Myth of the Founding Fathers (pretty words written by a slaveholding piece of shit who raped his slaves and enslaved his own children, but useful if you ignore all context)
So, pronouns are non-negotiable. Unless you want to also allow calling black men “boy”.
@DK:
You’re missing the mushy middle. The ones who aren’t full on Trumpers but voted Trump anyway. The ones who are more stupid than malevolent.
And the simple bigots. Because there’s a world of difference between not wanting a Black woman as President and wanting authoritarianism. Shades of evil, but vastly different shades.
Example: Dems didn’t push CRT in K-12.
No but ask how many hours of “pronoun training” have employees had to suffer through? How many seminars about latent racism and how to tread lightly around gender and diversity issues? Especially in the entertainment industry. Its endless.
California for example mandates that EVERY employee has to sit through a course on this stuff. Under California law, all employers with five or more employees are required to provide sexual harassment prevention training to their employees. This training must be provided to all employees within six months of hire and every two years thereafter.
Also, California employers are required to provide their employees with training on anti-discrimination and diversity. This training must cover topics such as how to prevent discrimination and harassment based on race, gender, sexual orientation, and other protected characteristics. Result? Harris received almost 2 million LESS votes in California than did Biden. Of course it wasn’t all due to trans but her stance didn’t help.
Why do so many give Mr. Reynolds such grief? He’s totally correct. In a close election if the GOP can flip one voter out of hundred to their side on this issue, they win. And they did.
Many resent these lectures and mandatory compliance measures that some Dems push on people.
I saw a stat that only 12 athletes in the NCAA are trans men competiting as women. 12!!!?!!!
12 out of 500,000.
Was that infinitesimal amount of people worth shoving the mandate that they must be allowed to compete down everyone’s throats?
I know most will say, “this proves it’s a non issue that doesn’t affect many and is used by the wingnuts etc” but the opposite point that I and other sane Dems would make is “yes, exactly, so why are we spending TREMENDOUS political capital on 12 individuals when the public is overwhelmingly AGAINST THIS?
Trans is a losing issue for us. I know many here will go into stock mode of knee jerk reaction of condemnation of Mr Reynolds and myself for pointing out the obvious but there are many issues working and middle class voters out there put way ahead of this like childcare, cheaper drugs, increased wages, secure neighborhoods.
Rightly or wrongly, the public thinks we Dems care more about a high school trans athlete competing in the long jump than the welfare of white blue collar high school graduates who may get laid off at a moment’s notice.
We give the GOP the trans bat that they continually crush our skulls with and you people denounce any fellow lib that questions this losing issue.
A lunatic is about ready to take a chainsaw to the Republic and the Constitution and we are worried about letting 12 dudes compete in NCAA meets?
Those who still cling to the BS that this didn’t factor into our loss in a measurable way are as deluded as the MAGAts who live in their own reality universe.
@Gustopher:
Pronouns pfft. If it wasn’t pronouns, they’d come up with some other lame excuse to try to hide what’s really going on: their desire to hurt people, because Trump voters are a collection of cluster B personality disorders who were poorly parented, and are still surrounded by people who let them off the hook — including bleeding heart+liberals who would rather self-flagellate than tell their best friend / uncle / cousin what a therapist would, “You’re actually just not very smart, based on your choices — and you’re also a narcissist with antisocial traits.”
They voted to hurt gays, black, immigrants and the rest. And some are now shocked Trump’s reckless incompetence has backfired onto them — that Trump meant it when he said, “I don’t care about you, I just want your vote.”
Trumpers deserve 100% of the pain, but unfortunately others who didn’t want this are being hurt. That cannot be helped.
But Trumpers also deserve 100% of the responsibility. It’s all their fault, and Democrats should not be joining attempts to help Trumpers shift blame from where it belongs: their horrible, dumb, amoral, and unjustifiable voting booth decision-making.
@The Q:
Another lame excuse to try to give a supermajority of white men a pass for their shitty and stupid politics. Democrats did not pass any “mandatory pronoun training” bill or trans bill. Democrats lowered the cost of insulin.
These voters who want to pretend Democrats are pushing issues they’re not pushing (which, magically, doesn’t include hardly any black, gay, or Jewish voters even though we all live in the same country, sit through the same trainings, and hear the same campaigns hmmm) as an excuse to vote for white supremacy and fascism will be among the voters who suffer most from Trump crashing the economy and gutting the social safety net.
They rightly deserve to suffer. White nonsense has consequences. Maybe that will help them wake up and stop lying to themselves. Democrats cannot force stupid white people (and a majority of Latino men) to stop being stupid.
Much of white America needs to look in the mirror, hold each other accountable, and take responsibility for their votes — instead of scapegoating and blaming trans people, pronouns, somebody on Twitter, blah blah blah when the problem is now and has always been the deficient ethics and morals of the majority of white America, especially its undereducated underclass. That is why they vote like they do.
And the problem will not be fixed until they start being honest with themselves in private when the rest of us sre not around — instead of getting defensive and mad when good white people like Hillary call them out for being deplorable racist fucks.
But most, not all, of White America actually believes it is inherently superior, when it is not. And they’d rather do anything then admit black voters are smarter politically than they are and follow our lead. And that’s why they are unhappy, depressed, and living like paupers compared to their motherland cohorts in Western Europe.
A good start would be for educated whites to stop beating themselves up and apologizing — and stop forcing people like Hillary to apologize when they tell the truth about these deplorable assholes.
“They rightly deserve to suffer. Maybe that will help them wake up and stop lying to themselves. It is not Democrats responsibility to help these morons be less moronic.”
Was that from FDR’s fireside chat #3 or 5? Or from JKF’s inaugural address? Maybe MLK in Chicago? I’ve forgotten
Sorry, it’s PRECISELY the job of Dems to help the blind to see.
To paraphrase Camus, if we don’t do it, then who will? If not now, when?
I live in LA. We didn’t see in California many trump ads since it was a waste of money since we are so blue.
But when I would travel to Utah, Michigan, Arizona, Wisconsin, those “them they” ads and her endorsement of prison sex change operations were run over and over and over again. When I first saw them, I cringed because I knew how effective they were going to be. We didn’t see them nearly as much in the Golden state.
Dems have got to say, “ok maybe DEI wasn’t the best solution but only 22% of the country are white males. They can’t do all the jobs so at some point, you know, women, African Americans, Latinos, Asians will have to be Doctors and accountants and air traffic controllers and it’s silly to suggest that almost 80% of the population are dumb, feckless, lazy, indolent DEI hires that can’t possibly compete with superior white boys.
Yet that’s what MAGA thinks so we need to point out how did the 27 year old DEI hire that is Karoline “Tits” Leavitt get the PR job that should have gone to a much better qualified male?
Ask them to defend that hire and watch their head spin justifying the appointment on the grounds of her being in Trump’s mind the “most qualified”
PS “Democrats did not pass any “mandatory pronoun training” bill or trans bill”
Yes they did in California. Both mandatory training (see above) and allowing trans to compete in HS meets with the opposite gender
@The Q:
No it’s not, because that is not even possible. No politician can make a blind person see, or un-stupid a stupid person. Black people and gay people don’t vote overwhelmingly Democratic because of some magical Democratic message.
Charity begins at home, and much of America has cultural and spiritual sickness that can only be solved in-house. There is no political solution for these issues.
What we need is for people to speak up when in the privacy of American homes we hear our friends and loved ones saying racist things. Sadly, most of us still do not have the courage to do so.
I’m obviously referring to the Biden era. California law in these areas has not changed since 2014 and 2017 respectively, during which time Democrats have come to totally control the state and won plenty of elections nationwide, including in 2018, 2020, and 2022. So no, California laws passed a decade ago are not why Trump won in 2024.
Lame, blame-shifting excuse to let Trump voters off the hook for their indefensible, craptacular, stupid choices.
Once again, we all had the same choices. We are all aware of the trans debate. We’ve all had to sit through irritating trainings. Transphobia is quite a rampant problem in the black community.
Black folk still overwhelmingly voted against Trump’s facism. So did gays, so did Jews. Educated whites opposed Trump. So did households making under $30k.
So the attempt to blame Trump on anything but the selfishness and stupidity of Trump voters fails. The majority of white working class voters and Latino men and anybody of any background who voted for Trump need to take responsibility for their own errors. There is no excuse. Pronouns didn’t make them do it, a training didn’t make them do it, CalDems didn’t, Twitter didn’t.
They are adults with agency who made a massively and infensibly bad CHOICE. And it is long past time to say so instead of coddling them and helping them shift blame and make excuses.
Signed, a therapist.
@charontwo: As long as Congress is controlled by the same party as POTUS there is little possibility that they will reign in excesses by POTUS. For the sam reason impeachment is possible in theory but impossible in practice. The assumption has always been that POTUS would act within norms. Now that Trump does not do that we just dont have good ways to stop him. Its largely limited to the courts which dont act quickly and since SCOTUS is really just another group of politicians, but in robes, its doubtful they will do much that would stop Trump. In theory Obama could have also engaged in radical stuff when he was in office if he wanted as long as Congress agreed. It’s just a defect in our system that lets POTUS act with little restraint or regard for the law if they wish to regard norms.
Steve
@DK:
So there’s no reason to give up pronouns.
If The Q had his way, when throwing trans folks under the bus didn’t work, they would be looking for the next group to throw under the bus, or a worse spot to throw trans people (camps?).
Weakness doesn’t win. Democrats need to make a stand where a stand makes some kind of logical and emotional sense. Everyone has a right to basic respect, and to live their life without harassment or government interference.
Even if they’re trans, or go to church.
And if you had predicted any of this six months ago, people would have said you were suffering from Trump Derangement Syndrome.
@steve:
Except that Nixon knew his time was up when a contingent of leading Republicans paid him a visit with the message it was time to go.
You are talking about the extraordinarily corrupt modern GOP. It doesn’t need to be this way.
@Gustopher:
Trans
Woke
DEI
CRT
Cat-eating Haitians
Pronouns
BLM
LatinX
Thugs
Superpredators
Emails
Gay marriage
Likeability
Who I Want to Have a Beer With
Political correctness
Swift Boat
Family values
Welfare queens
Pick a year from 1988-2004. Same ole distraction tactic scapegoat the poor and brown and queer and powerless bullshit to let the same ole stupids off the hook for their same ole stupidity, so the same ole oligarchs can get more corporate socialism and tax cuts for billionaires.
Rinse, wash, repeat.
Next time it’ll be some other trivial falderal that Dems didn’t do that supposedly “hurt the Dems” — because America must never offend those wholesome salt of the earth “blue collar” (pfft) people by holding them accountable for their own bullshit. Personal responsibility for crap decision-making is for everybody else, never them. Their terrible choices are everybody else’s fault.
Never understood the process by which those who’ve worked their ass off to be educated allow America’s worst people to force us to pretend like striving to be elite is a bad thing. Because apparently we’re supposed to aspire to mediocrity.
Lunacy.
@Hal_10000:
They still do.
“If The Q had his way, when throwing trans folks under the bus didn’t work, they would be looking for the next group to throw under the bus, or a worse spot to throw trans people (camps?).”
You’re a phucking idiot. As I predicted, the stupid knee jerk MAGA like BS response. Why we lost to a loon? Shite fucks like Gustopher condescending.
Dk writes “92% of black women voted for Harris. 88% of Jewish women voted for harris. 85% of LGBT voters voted for harris. 78% of black men voted for Harris. 72% of Jewish men voted for Harris.” Big phucking deal, thats 14% of the voting public. What about the other 86% that are white, Latino and Asian?
Whites were 72% of the voters in 2024. Blacks about 10 and Latinos 1o. Asians 5%.
So let you and the moron Gustopher alienate the 72% of white people to pursue Jew, and blacks.
And you wonder why we lost both houses and the POTUS.
Dumb woke elitist dipschites in our party. Why teach the GOP blind to see when there are so many in our own party equally blind?
Hitler started out with the trans because it was safest to go after the small minorities.
Jews were only 1% of the German population, another safe early target in Germany.
Tossing small minorities to the wolves is wrong, and damages your credibility, including to yourselves. The utilitarian argument that minorities are not worth saving if they are small is IMO a loser.
@The Q:
Because dumb bigoted white MAGA asshats in our country are never responsible for their own choices. Woke made them do it.
Horseshit.
Yet somehow a majority of white Americans are still incapable of taking responsibility for the inevitable and predictable outcomes of their choices. Still in denial about the awfulness of their friends and family, still blaming everyone except their shitty politics, selfish values, and stubborn refusal to listen to black people.
They were alienated. Ha! No, they were and are stupid, easily-manipulated gullible dumbfucks who are not even 10% as superior as American culture has led them to believe — unlike the blacks, Jews, and gays who’ve faced far more alienation, hate, nonsense and discrimination than privileged straight WASPs ever have and yet still manage not vote like psychos. Funny that.
Mmm hmmm. Instead of sneering like at the percentage of black women who voted correctly, what str8 white men should be doing is examining their failure to do the same. That so many would rather default arrogant dismissiveness and blame shift is exactly why their demographic are the worst voters in America.
The stain of them giving a super majority of their votes to Trump will never wash off. So I understand the desperate attempt to blame somebody else. But it won’t work.
@Michael Reynolds: maybe not so much “easily distracted” but rather “terrified to draw attention” because they could be arrested and put in prison and it’s not unreasonable to think that being incarcerated right now is extremely dangerous. I love this forum and learn a lot from everyone here but it’s pretty obvious that most of y’all have never been to jail or prison. Once you’ve been, it is SO MUCH EASIER to end up there again. But the people who have been and don’t want to end up there again, it’s now something that is weighs on your mind with every decision you make. It’s important to blend in and not draw attention to yourself because if you’re ever in a situation where the cops are involved and they start asking for peoples identifications, they know within seconds of running your name and immediately start treating you like a scumbag, even if you did nothing wrong. …..anyways, my point is, what is someone like that supposed to do? I already can’t even vote. Well, technically Florida passed a law that felons can vote after serving their time but then they started arresting people who did, so not a chance in hell I’ll be testing out that new law……