Outside the Beltway

Bashir-Palin vs. Limbaugh-Fluke

Marin Bashir’s ugly comments about Sarah Palin are being compared to Rush Limbaugh’s ugly comments about Sandra Fluke.

James Joyner
73

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bashir-palin

Trending on memeorandum is a piece by the Media Research Center’s Geoffrey Dickens titled, “Networks That Skipped Bashir’s Gross Attack on Palin Were Outraged By Limbaugh Fluke Joke.”

The headline is pretty much self-refuting.  In one case, we have a host on a fourth-tier cable network of whom most people have never heard; in the other, we have the most popular talk radio personality of the last half century and an influential figure in one of our two major political parties. In one case, we have a crude remark directed at a former vice presidential nominee and one-time leading presidential prospect of one of our two major parties; in the other, we have a minor student activist of whom almost nobody had ever heard prior to being called a slut by a famous media personality.

See the difference?

Oh: Bashir is now out of a job. Limbaugh? Not so much.

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73 responses to “Bashir-Palin vs. Limbaugh-Fluke”

  1. al-Ameda Avatar
    al-Ameda

    One of the big differences is that virtually nobody knows who Marin Bashir is, while everyone knows who Rush Limbaugh is. Until I read (somewhere) that Bashir was suspended for his remarks about Palin I didn’t know who he was nor what he said.

    Comparing Limbaugh/Fluke to Bashir/Palin is almost the equivalent of comparing remarks I might say about Michele Bachmann to what Limbaugh said about Fluke – everyone will know of Limbaugh’s remarks, no one but my wife will know about my remarks.

    This is just another example of how conservatives, unconvincingly and pathetically, present themselves as victims of the so-called liberal mainstream media.

  2. TarianinMO Avatar
    TarianinMO

    Several differences – Rush didn’t advocate physical harm against a woman and Martin did. Also, Rush was speaking off-the-cuff and Martin wasn’t – he was reading from a teleprompter which means this was pre-planned.

  3. Nikki Avatar
    Nikki

    Limbaugh calls Fluke a slut based solely on her congressional testimony concerning the availability of birth control. Bashir says Palin should be subject to the same punishment given to slaves, feces in the mouth, over her comparison of the federal debt to the horror of slavey. Only one is fired when they both should have been.

  4. beth Avatar
    beth

    @TarianinMO: If you think Rush doesn’t plan out what he’s going to talk about every day, I’ve got a bridge to sell you. All the right wing news sites were flogging the “slut” meme that day and Rush knew full well he’d be doing it too. He also repeated it the next day – was that off the cuff too?

    I didn’t like how Bashir said what he did but I appreciate that someone at least had the good sense to point out that living in America in 2013 is nothing like being owned by another person, subject to beatings, rapes and having your children sold off. It’s about time someone started pushing back on this hyperbolic nonsense. I would also invite Palin to go live in North Korea for a while and then come back and talk about how Christians are oppressed in this country.

  5. Nikki Avatar
    Nikki

    @beth: He actually said it three days in a row.

  6. gVOR08 Avatar
    gVOR08

    We’re over-thinking this. It’s just another example of IOKIYAR.

  7. James Pearce Avatar
    James Pearce

    @TarianinMO:

    Rush didn’t advocate physical harm against a woman and Martin did.

    No, he was making a rhetorical point with characteristic British vulgarity, and he lost his job because of it.

    No reasonable observer is going to confuse that with “advocating physical harm against a woman.” If they did, well, they would lose all claim to being “reasonable.”

  8. OzarkHillbilly Avatar
    OzarkHillbilly

    Just one more example of how conservatives are an oppressed minority and the liberal Lamestream media are complicit in the cover-up.

  9. CB Avatar
    CB

    One was a gross attack. One was a joke. Obviously.

    Come on, James. You liberals have no sense of humor.

  10. mantis Avatar
    mantis

    Why would Rush get fired? He was doing exactly what’s expected of him. His audience listens, and his sponsors pay, because they want him to attack and dehumanize every liberal or perceived liberal, no matter how well known, in the most disgusting, unfair, dishonest ways. Fired? He probably got a raise.

  11. michael reynolds Avatar
    michael reynolds

    The essential difference is not between Limbaugh and Bashir, but between their respective audiences. Liberals condemn Bashir. Conservatives defend and rationalize and flat-out lie for Limbaugh.

  12. JKB Avatar
    JKB

    One spoke for himself and the comment reflected on him and only him.

    The other was an obscure on-air presenter of an Obama propaganda organ whose comment reflected on the organization.

  13. Gavrilo Avatar
    Gavrilo

    The only reason MSNBC fired Martin Bashir is because they just fired Alec Baldwin. It would have been an unbearable double standard, even for MSNBC, to not fire Bashir for something scripted he read on-air, when they fired Baldwin for something he said on the street to a paparazzo.

  14. beth Avatar
    beth

    @JKB: And you prove Michael Reynolds right in the very next comment.

  15. OzarkHillbilly Avatar
    OzarkHillbilly

    @JKB:

    One spoke for himself and the comment reflected on him and only him.

    And not at all upon his millions of listeners. Right.

  16. BleevK Avatar
    BleevK

    @TarianinMO: Yeah, your moron is better than mine.

  17. JKB Avatar
    JKB

    @beth:

    Your reading comprehension needs work.

    Limbaugh being an independent entity was able to weather the storm. He lost advertisers which he replaced. The networks that carried his broadcasts did not find the controversy a threat to their business, at least to the extent that it exceeded the costs of replacing him with a less popular show.

    Bashir is an employee. His comment prompted his employers to remove him to eliminate the threat to their business. He may yet find another position and conceivably a larger audience.

    It is a fact of life, when you are an employee, you have to be careful not to become a liability to your employer. When you are an independent contractor with your own customer base, you can ride out the troubles. Perhaps or perhaps not seeing an impact on your revenue.

    And that is why you Progs want to make everyone on employee and seek to make it as hard as possible for small, independent business people. You hate it that someone might be free and independent.

  18. JKB Avatar
    JKB

    @OzarkHillbilly: And not at all upon his millions of listeners. Right.

    No.

    But if you want to go that way, then what does it say about those who still support the Liar Obama? He lied and lied over years, yet you still support him.

  19. OzarkHillbilly Avatar
    OzarkHillbilly

    @JKB: Classic deflection, sir. Well done, well done! Now back to our regularly scheduled discussion…

  20. Pinky Avatar
    Pinky

    The MRC has gotten much more sensationalistic over the past few years. I deleted them from my Favorites list a while ago.

  21. MM Avatar
    MM

    I still fail to see how these are comparable. Bashir was trying to say that if Palin understood the horrors of slavery, she might not want to keep comparing things she hates to slavery. He just did it in an inarticulate way that sounds very much like a personal attack, especially when the Outrage Engine fires up.

    Limbaugh called a woman an entitled slut for suggesting that birth control pills have medical uses beyond birth control and should be treated like other medicines.

    Bashir isn’t as clever as he thinks he is. Limbaugh actively involved himself in a campaign to lie about what Sandra Fluke said. A lie which is still out there mind you.

  22. al-Ameda Avatar
    al-Ameda

    @JKB:

    But if you want to go that way, then what does it say about those who still support the Liar Obama? He lied and lied over years, yet you still support him.

    What did he lie about?
    Oh wait, I know the answer to that, “everything.”
    There, you’re welcome.

  23. JKB Avatar
    JKB

    @al-Ameda: What did he lie about?

    IYLYP.YCKYP.

  24. wr Avatar
    wr

    @JKB: “And that is why you Progs want to make everyone on employee and seek to make it as hard as possible for small, independent business people. You hate it that someone might be free and independent.”

    Wow, you were actually making sense for a few paragraphs there… reflecting an understanding of the way life actually works. And then you slipped back into your hatefilled, paranoid delusions.

    Seems like the medication is right — now you just need to adjust the dosage.

  25. 11B40 Avatar
    11B40

    Greetings:

    Sandra Fluke ( and God don’t I love that last name), that’s the female martyr who couldn’t convince her affluent scion boyfriend to pay for her contraception, right ???

  26. al-Ameda Avatar
    al-Ameda

    @JKB:

    @al-Ameda: What did he lie about?
    IYLYP.YCKYP.

    You know, on Tuesday the House Judiciary Committee met to begin discussions concerning the impeachment of President Obama, shouldn’t you be over there selling hot dogs or beer to the beleaguered Republican committee members?

  27. MM Avatar
    MM

    @11B40: When I am right, I am right.

  28. Pinky Avatar
    Pinky

    @MM: That’s a really generous take on what Bashir said, and either the worst possible take on Limbaugh’s statement or an outright falsehood. It’s not particularly accurate about what Fluke said, either.

  29. JKB Avatar
    JKB

    She confirms if anyone truly qualified for a dose of discipline from Thomas Thistlewood, she would be the outstanding candidate.

    That is a bit sophomoric but given the recent spate of mass violence perpetrated by followers of the Progressive cause and presumably MSNBC, that statement is irresponsible and could prompt another Progressive follower to act upon his violent tendencies by attacking a school or Navy base or member of Congress. It is far more likely to incite such violence than a target image in the context of opposing a candidate given its specificity as to target and act.

    What is really amusing is Bashir demonstrating his ignorance as he hoped to show Palin as ignorant. Palin in her comment to Tapper illustrated a much better understanding of slavery than either Tapper or Bashir, who focused on the torture and abuse that slavery enabled but do not define slavery.

    PALIN: There is another definition of slavery and that is being beholden to some kind of master that is not of your choosing. And, yes, the national debt will be like slavery when the note comes due.

    Slavery is a societal condition of involuntary subjection to the whims of another group, most often with government-enforceable claims to all or most of the slaves productive labor. Whether that group is benevolent or sadistic is besides the point. The sadistic torture that Bashir sensationally cited was just sadistic torture. The slavery was not dependent upon the torture’s presence in the overseer’s behavior. Slavery was the condition in society that created a vulnerable pool of victims for the sadist to abuse with little fear of interference by the larger society.

  30. DRE Avatar
    DRE

    @JKB:

    Your reading comprehension needs work.

    No, your writing does. If you think that your original comment conveys the same information as this one then you expect people to be mind readers.

    Of course in the final paragraph you explain the problem.

    And that is why you Progs want to make everyone on employee and seek to make it as hard as possible for small, independent business people. You hate it that someone might be free and independent.

    You believe that you can read your opponents minds so you expect them to read yours. Sorry but you can’t and neither can they.

  31. rudderpedals Avatar
    rudderpedals

    @MM: “It’s out there”: Cokie’s Rule

  32. Blue Galangal Avatar
    Blue Galangal

    @Pinky:
    “A friend of mine, for example, has polycystic ovarian syndrome
    and has to take prescription birth control to stop cysts from growing on her ovaries.
    Her prescription is technically covered by Georgetown insurance because it’s not
    intended to prevent pregnancy. Under many religious institutions’ insurance plans,
    it wouldn’t be, and under Senator Blunt’s amendment, Senator Rubio’s bill, or
    Representative Fortenberry’s bill, there’s no requirement that an exception be
    made for such medical needs. When they do exist, these exceptions don’t
    accomplish their well-intended goals because when you let university
    administrators or other employers, rather than women and their doctors, dictate
    whose medical needs are legitimate and whose aren’t, a woman’s health takes a
    back seat to a bureaucracy focused on policing her body.

    In sixty-five percent of cases, our female students were interrogated by insurance
    representatives and university medical staff about why they needed these
    prescriptions and whether they were lying about their symptoms. For my friend,
    and 20% of women in her situation, she never got the insurance company to cover
    her prescription, despite verification of her illness from her doctor. Her claim was
    denied repeatedly on the assumption that she really wanted the birth control to
    prevent pregnancy. She’s gay, so clearly polycystic ovarian syndrome was a much
    more urgent concern than accidental pregnancy. After months of paying over $100
    out of pocket, she just couldn’t afford her medication anymore and had to stop
    taking it.”

    http://abcnews.go.com/images/Politics/statement-Congress-letterhead-2nd%20hearing.pdf

  33. JKB Avatar
    JKB

    @DRE: You believe that you can read your opponents minds so you expect them to read yours.

    You are right. I can’t read minds. So I really don’t know if that is what they want. But the denial of freedom of thought and action is the foreseeable and actual consequences to the Progs actions and words. So perhaps it isn’t what they want. Perhaps they are just incompetent in their desire to promote freedom of thought and action.

    In the end, either they are acting upon their wants or they should stop since they are failures at achieving their real wants.

  34. john personna Avatar
    john personna

    @MM:

    I still fail to see how these are comparable. Bashir was trying to say that if Palin understood the horrors of slavery, she might not want to keep comparing things she hates to slavery. He just did it in an inarticulate way that sounds very much like a personal attack, especially when the Outrage Engine fires up.

    This.

    He should have known and done better of course, but he had something when he called Palin on flip “slavery” comparisons.

    I mean, slavery is only something that affects entitled white people now … have I got that right?

  35. john personna Avatar
    john personna

    @JKB:

    I hate the way they treat you here, JKB, it’s as bad as slavery!

  36. Tillman Avatar
    Tillman

    This was a great post. Succinct and to the point.

  37. MM2 Avatar
    MM2

    @Pinky: After rereading the Bashir transcript, I’ll admit that it’s worse than I remembered. I think it would have been stilted and clumsy, but OK had he dropped the personal attack at the end.

    As for Fluke and Limbaugh, it’s quite literally exactly what they said. Blue Galangal provided the link to Fluke’s testimony. You’ll note that she was not asking for the pill so she could go have consequence-free sexy time, nor was she asking on her own behalf. I’ll supply you with the cite to Limbaugh,:

    “Can you imagine, if you’re her parents, how proud of Sandra Fluke you would be? Your daughter goes up to a congressional hearing conducted by the Botox-filled Nancy Pelosi and testifies she’s having so much sex she can’t afford her own birth control pills and she agrees that Obama should provide them, or the Pope. ”

    There’s roughly 20 variations he made on the same theme before he apologized later (so it was not a one-off spur of the moment thing as a commenter above alleged). Whether he has gone on with it, I couldn’t tell you. But as the 1140B post above shows, his narrative is still being taken as gospel by many, including (apparently) you.

  38. OzarkHillbilly Avatar
    OzarkHillbilly

    @Blue Galangal: C’mon Blue, we all know that ABC made up that transcript of her testimony.

  39. DRE Avatar
    DRE

    @JKB:

    A huge majority of people in modern capitalist societies like ours are employees of someone else rather than independent operators. Government and others acting to preserve the rights of employees from the whims of their employers is far more important than protecting business from regulation to the preservation of freedom of thoughts and actions. Control of access to healthcare is a critical element in this equation and has also been a significant barrier to independence given the non-functionality of the individual insurance market.

  40. anjin-san Avatar
    anjin-san

    It was a stupid thing to say, I don’t have much sympathy for him.

  41. James Pearce Avatar
    James Pearce

    @JKB:

    The sadistic torture that Bashir sensationally cited was just sadistic torture. The slavery was not dependent upon the torture’s presence in the overseer’s behavior.

    I think you’re overanalyzing this, bud.

    Not only that, but I think it’s funny that the whole slavery thing is the hook. You don’t mind that he called Sarah Palin “America’s resident dunce?” Or that he talked about her “well established reputation as a world class idiot?”

    Why be mad about the slavery point when the most glaring insults are staring you in the face?

  42. Mr. Replica Avatar
    Mr. Replica

    Martin learned a valuable lesson, I think.
    You simply can not play the same Troll game as the conservative media complex. Where Rush, Palin, Ann, Bill, Glen, etc etc etc. all call home.

    They have streamlined it, they have cultivated it, they have chosen who is allowed inside the victim club. And “Liberals” like Martin are not included.

    If you are not a member of this club you can not:

    Call someone a “Retard”.
    Speak badly about ‘Merica
    Speak badly of a politician, or ex-politician in this case (R)
    Speak badly of a President (R)
    Speak out against religion or religious people (like the Pope)
    Claim to be a victim of any kind

    And the list goes on and on.

    Sorry, Martin. You learned your lesson the hard way.

  43. grumpy realist Avatar
    grumpy realist

    May all those who think that what Sandra Fluke testified indicates someone who is ” having so much sex she can’t afford her own birth control pills” have to justify to their health insurance companies the medical benefits of the Little Blue Pill That Must Not Be Named.

    (Rush apparently doesn’t know how birth control pills work, either. He probably thinks they’re like condoms, except held between the knees.)

  44. MBunge Avatar
    MBunge

    @JKB: Limbaugh being an independent entity was able to weather the storm.

    Limbaugh is an employee. He’s not even an independent contractor. He’s a straight up employee who has a contract with his employer. Sure, once he got rich, Limbaugh has indulged in this or that entrepreneurial hobbies. However, Rush is and always has been primarily an employee.

    Mike

  45. bandit Avatar
    bandit

    If it wasn’t for being fired no one would have ever know what Bashir said

  46. Pinky Avatar
    Pinky

    @Mr. Replica:
    You’re saying that liberals in journalism and opinion aren’t permitted to speak badly of a Republican politician, ex-politician, or president?

  47. JKB Avatar
    JKB

    @DRE: Control of access to healthcare is a critical element in this equation and has also been a significant barrier to independence given the non-functionality of the individual insurance market.

    Are you saying there is a monopoly that controls all the doctors and hospitals in the country? I mean besides the FDA and other elements of the federal government. Oh and the AMA which restricts the supply of doctors through control of the medical school accreditation.

    But what private sector employer controls the access?

    Employers do create a pool for health care cost risk sharing with their provision of health insurance. They have ill-advisedly also included within that provision buyers’ club features to gain discounts on some services. They even pay a portion of the costs of this insurance and buyers’ club as a form of tax deductible in-kind compensation to employees. But they have not controlled access to healthcare, except to the extent of using networks and co-pays to limit the over use of the buyers’ club feature and most common insurance pay outs.

    So you are saying that by offering these in-kind compensation packages is limiting to employees who feel they cannot then give up such compensation to do other things? Not unlike getting married, buying a house, having kids, getting used to vacations and such make it harder to give up the cash wage payments of a job?

  48. JKB Avatar
    JKB

    @MBunge:

    Perhaps but if an employee, Limbaugh is not interchangeable. I doubt few even noticed Bashir was off the air, but if Limbaugh is fired, he takes the revenue stream (advertisers) with him leaving his employer with dead air. Not to mention in the hole for breach of contract assuming Limbaugh can’t be fired for being impolite.

  49. Mr. Replica Avatar
    Mr. Replica

    @Pinky:

    Nope.
    Just saying that there is definitely a holier-than-thou attitude from the conservative media complex. Where they can say and do a whole that more than they are willing to take from anyone outside their little club.

    The Dixie Chicks were afraid to tour, leave their families, even go out in public. All because they questioned Bush and the Iraq war.

    While Rush is probably still counting all the money he made after his comments regarding how he wants/hopes Obama and the country fails.

  50. jukeboxgrad Avatar
    jukeboxgrad

    James:

    an influential figure in one of our two major political parties

    Correct. And to underline just how influential: Reagan himself described Limbaugh as “the Number One voice for conservatism.” In 1993, National Review described him as “The Leader of The Opposition,” and they proudly repeated this in 2003. In 1994, “Limbaugh was made an honorary member” of Congress by the GOP.

    So it’s alway fun to see the disingenuous right-wing attempts to pretend that Rush isn’t that important, like this from JKB:

    [Rush] spoke for himself and the comment reflected on him and only him

    According to Saint Ronnie, Rush doesn’t just speak “for himself.” He speaks “for conservatism.”

  51. Grewgills Avatar
    Grewgills

    @JKB:
    Which clearly indicates that his audience likes, or at least doesn’t mind, his antics including calling Fluke a slut multiple times in multiple ways over the course of days.

  52. David M Avatar
    David M

    Bashir was on the right track up until the end of the statement when he FUBAR-ed it all up.

    Palin’s statement was always nonsensical.

    It’s interesting to note which is considered the bigger transgression. One of many ways the mainstream media is wired to help the GOP.

  53. Paul L. Avatar
    Paul L.

    @Nikki:

    Using the progressive Sherry Sherrod standard that recanting later nullifies the earlier remarks, this lets Limbaugh off the hook.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rush_Limbaugh%E2%80%93Sandra_Fluke_controversy

    Okay, so she’s not a slut. She’s “round heeled”. I take it back.

  54. wr Avatar
    wr

    @JKB: “But the denial of freedom of thought and action is the foreseeable and actual consequences to the Progs actions and words.”

    I don’t understand why you hate Yes and ELP so much.

  55. mantis Avatar
    mantis

    @Paul L.:

    Using the progressive Sherry Sherrod standard that recanting

    Good to see you’re employing the wingnut standard of lying constantly about everything. Points for consistency.

  56. wr Avatar
    wr

    @anjin-san: “It was a stupid thing to say, I don’t have much sympathy for him”

    Bashir is a slimebag who made his name doing fairly revolting British-style celebrity crap. I never understood why MSNBC hired him, and never had any interest in watching his show. I’m a little tired of the “someone who doesn’t work for Fox said something icky — he must be banished from the airwaves,” but I don’t think the network is any poorer for his loss.

  57. David M Avatar
    David M

    @wr:

    I won’t miss Bashir, but we as a country are worse off when “rude but true” is out of bounds while “polite nonsense” is still acceptable.

    Seems like “polite nonsense” should be the motto displayed in Paul Ryan’s office. He may be the best personification of the problem.

  58. Mr. Replica Avatar
    Mr. Replica

    @wr:

    For the progs in all of us.

    (Honorable mentions go out to Rush, Dream Theater, and TOOL.)

  59. CB Avatar
    CB

    @Mr. Replica:

    +10000 points for the prog heads in the thread. And the DT name drop.

  60. al-Ameda Avatar
    al-Ameda

    @TarianinMO:

    Several differences – Rush didn’t advocate physical harm against a woman and Martin did. Also, Rush was speaking off-the-cuff and Martin wasn’t – he was reading from a teleprompter which means this was pre-planned.

    So, the non-use of a teleprompter is an indication of insincerity or inauthenticity?

  61. Grewgills Avatar
    Grewgills

    @Paul L.: JKB et al

    In 1756, he records that a slave named Darby ‘catched eating kanes had him well flogged and pickled, then made Hector, another slave, s-h-i-t in his mouth,’” Bashir said. “When Mrs. Palin invokes slavery, she doesn’t just prove her rank ignorance. She confirms if anyone truly qualified for a dose of discipline from Thomas Thistlewood, she would be the outstanding candidate.

    Said once about Palin results in him being fired and no one of substance on the Left defending him.

    What does it say about the college co-ed Susan Fluke [sic], who goes before a congressional committee and essentially says that she must be paid to have sex, what does that make her? It makes her a slut, right? It makes her a prostitute. She wants to be paid to have sex. She’s having so much sex she can’t afford the contraception. She wants you and me and the taxpayers to pay her to have sex. What does that make us? We’re the pimps. (interruption) The johns? We would be the johns? No! We’re not the johns. (interruption) Yeah, that’s right. Pimp’s not the right word. Okay, so she’s not a slut. She’s “round heeled”. I take it back.

    and

    So, Ms. Fluke and the rest of you feminazis, here’s the deal. If we are going to pay for your contraceptives, and thus pay for you to have sex, we want something for it, and I’ll tell you what it is. We want you to post the videos online so we can all watch.

    and more in a similar vein for days about a college student who had the temerity to advocate for contraceptive coverage results in the loss of a few sponsors and continued support from the Right.

    There is a double standard. It’s just not the one you think it is.

  62. Franklin Avatar
    Franklin

    Wasn’t Bashir the one that did that big expose on Michael Jackson? He seemed like quite a douche then. Little has changed.

  63. An Interested Party Avatar
    An Interested Party

    And that is why you Progs want to make everyone on employee and seek to make it as hard as possible for small, independent business people. You hate it that someone might be free and independent.

    Oh my, you poor, dear, sweet thing…it must be so hard for you to live in this world with evil liberals snapping at your heels at every turn…the Conservative Victimhood Tour continues unabated…

    And, yes, the national debt will be like slavery when the note comes due.

    And yet, probably you and certainly many of your fellow travelers voted for those slave masters Reagan and Bush II four times…

  64. Just Me Avatar
    Just Me

    Limbaugh owns the majority of his radio show-he isn’t going to fire himself.

    His bread and butter comes from the contracts stations make to play his show (and of course advertisers).

    He can’t be fired but stations can opt to drop his show-but given the fact that his show is probably one of their best revenue sources they probably won’t be dropping the show. And the reality is unless there is an avalanche of stations dropping his show, Limbaugh has a little more freedom to be a jerk than a guy who doesn’t own the show he is on and works at the pleasure of his station.

    I don’t listen to Rush or watch TV news- network or cable (I read my news).

    My guess is Bashir might have weathered this one had he just made his statement about slavery-putting Palin in role of slave crossed the line and I think made even the Palin haters uncomfortable.

  65. Pinky Avatar
    Pinky

    @Just Me:

    and I think made even the Palin haters uncomfortable

    Can’t be done. Look at the stuff that people say about her online. Look at Cher, or Letterman. As Bill Maher says, he lets the audience be his guide, and calling Palin a c-nt gets some of his biggest laughs. There’s a certain crowd for whom you can’t go far enough in insulting Palin. I mean, someone on this site was just saying that he only pays for three internet sites: NYT, NPR, and Andrew Sullivan. If it’s still possible to mention Andrew Sullivan in public without being ashamed, then there’s something different about the way Palin gets treated, different than any politician before her.

  66. rudderpedals Avatar
    rudderpedals

    Perhaps because she’s a celebrity rather than a politician?

  67. Grewgills Avatar
    Grewgills

    @Pinky:

    As Bill Maher says, he lets the audience be his guide

    Rush does the same and so, though he lost some sponsors, he didn’t lose audience on any of the occasions that he said, or did, something odious.
    Palin plays by that same rule and it seems no matter how low the denominator she plays to, she doesn’t lose audience and people don’t seem to tire of her martyr act when it comes back on her.

    Look at Cher, or Letterman.

    Are they still on TV?

  68. MBunge Avatar
    MBunge

    @JKB: if Limbaugh is fired, he takes the revenue stream (advertisers) with him leaving his employer with dead air.

    You’ve pretty much got it backwards. Rush cost his employers a lot of money and I doubt few, if any, if his advertisers would follow Rush if he chose to go online or to satellite radio. The problem is that firing Rush wouldn’t have brought those advertisers back and it would have cost his employers big bucks to either pay off his contract or contest it in court. Plenty of lower-paid yet locally very popular radio hosts have been canned for similar stuff.

    Like most other elites, Rush has rigged the game so that he’s essentially insulated against failure, no matter how bad or how much it’s his fault. His employers happily cooperated in that rigging, much like other corporate boards, but surely weren’t that happy when it bit them in the ass.

    Mike

    Mike

  69. Moderate Mom Avatar
    Moderate Mom

    As someone that is no fan of Sarah Palin and looks forward to the day she is no longer mentioned in regard to national politics, I feel the need to get on my high horse on the comparison of LImbaugh vs. Bashir.

    While Limbaugh calling Fluke a slut was inappropriate and undeserved, I think that what Bashir said was even worse. It was one of the most revolting things I’ve ever had the misfortune to watch.

    While I thing we can all agree that Palin speaks in a rather convoluted manner, I get the general idea that she was driving at. You would think that no one had ever heard the phrase “a slave to debt”. This was quite obviously what she was driving at in her speech. She was in no way comparing our debt to China to the cruelty and injustices that were done to so many in literal bondage. To even think that’s what she meant is to take the absolutely most uncharitable meaning to her words, which is exactly what Martin Bashir did.

    I can’t figure out how he even came up with the comparison he did. Did he Google “the most degrading punishment ever served on a slave”? This was not a story just about anyone, with the exception of perhaps a scholar studying slavery in Jamaica, would even know about. How the hell do you compare a speech about our debt to China with someone forcing one person to take a crap in someone else’s mouth? It’s just an absolutely bizarre comparison, and to suggest that she deserved to have that done to her was appalling.

    While Limbaugh obviously plans out what he will talk about on his show (what talk radio show host or cable TV host doesn’t?) he wasn’t reading directly from a speech he wrote, unlike Mr. Bashir. Martin Bashir’s problem was that he didn’t just tiptoe up to the line of acceptable speech criticizing and insulting Sarah Palin that is so encouraged on MSNBC, but that he jumped so far past it.

    Given that MSNBC had just fired Alec Baldwin for being caught on camera making a homosexual slur, it would have been the height of hypocrisy to have allowed Martin Bashir to continue hosting his program. They waited a little too long to do it, but they finally did the right thing.

  70. MBunge Avatar
    MBunge

    @Moderate Mom: While Limbaugh obviously plans out what he will talk about on his show (what talk radio show host or cable TV host doesn’t?) he wasn’t reading directly from a speech he wrote, unlike Mr. Bashir.

    On the other hand, Limbaugh repeated his attacks on Fluke for several days, even in the face of public uproar, something Bashir did not.

    Mike

  71. beth Avatar
    beth

    @Moderate Mom:It seems like you’re cutting Palin a whole lot of slack and asking people to somehow discern that the true meaning of what she said isn’t really what she said. I would say that Bashir deserves the same – I knew exactly what he was trying to say and although he did say it in the most vile and repugnant way possible, he did get his point across.

    And seriously, if you think Limbaugh doesn’t know exactly what he’s going to say and what effect it’s going to have, you just haven’t been paying attention. He’s like a five year old who just learned the word f*ck and even better, just learned the delightful stir it causes when he says it.

  72. al-Ameda Avatar
    al-Ameda

    @Moderate Mom:

    Given that MSNBC had just fired Alec Baldwin for being caught on camera making a homosexual slur, it would have been the height of hypocrisy to have allowed Martin Bashir to continue hosting his program. They waited a little too long to do it, but they finally did the right thing.

    … and Rush is still on the air, go figure, right?

  73. Grewgills Avatar
    Grewgills

    @Moderate Mom:

    While I thing we can all agree that Palin speaks in a rather convoluted manner, I get the general idea that she was driving at. You would think that no one had ever heard the phrase “a slave to debt”. This was quite obviously what she was driving at in her speech. She was in no way comparing our debt to China to the cruelty and injustices that were done to so many in literal bondage. To even think that’s what she meant is to take the absolutely most uncharitable meaning to her words, which is exactly what Martin Bashir did.

    I agree that is probably not what she meant, but using it has the did is a disservice to actual slaves in a way similar to people comparing modern American politicians to Hitler does a disservice to those who actually suffered at the hands of Nazis. It is ridiculous and stupid and she deserved to catch some shit for it, if you’ll pardon the pun. What Bashir said was wrong and he paid the price he should have. I am still waiting for Palin or Limbaugh to pay a similar price for the various outrageous and odious things they have said. I have a feeling it will be a long wait.

    Also keep in mind, she was politely reminded of the horrors of slavery and asked if she wanted to amend her statement and she said no, that she didn’t care to be ‘politically correct’. So, in Palin world acknowledging the horrors of slavery and changing her analogy would be succumbing to political correctness and therefor be worse than diminishing the suffering of millions of slaves with flip comparisons.

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