47 responses to “Breaking: Phillips Freed (Updated)”

1. 

   An Interested Party

   April 12, 2009 at 1:15 pm

   There were some around here who were blaming President Obama for the fact that any of this happened in the first place…I’m just curious, does he now get credit because the captain has been freed…
2. 

   anjin-san

   April 12, 2009 at 1:20 pm

   It.s a very good day for America. No doubt bit is furious. Very sad to hear an American citizen hope for our country to fail…

   Bithead at April 11, 2009 12:21 Permalink

   This is going to be the basis for a number of foreign policy failures, going forward. It labels, (and correctly, I think) the current administration is completely inept, unqualified and far too willing to bend over forward for any threat that comes along. Consider the kind of message being sent by our inability to deal quickly with a bunch of starving pirates with automatic weapons in a rowboat.
3. 

   davod

   April 12, 2009 at 1:30 pm

   Excellent work on the part of the USN. It is great they were allowed to do what they train to do.
4. 

   anjin-san

   April 12, 2009 at 1:37 pm

   It is great they were allowed to do what they train to do.

   It might be more accurate to say that they did what the Commander-in-Chief ordered them to do…
5. 

   Phil Smith

   April 12, 2009 at 1:49 pm

   I’m quite sure that the CinC promulgated explicit tactical instructions. /sarcasm

   I’m very glad that he didn’t tie the Navy’s hands in this matter. He’s to be given credit for that. But presuming that he issued operational orders regarding a squad-level action is simply silly. At any rate, you’d damn sure better hope he didn’t.
6. 

   anjin-san

   April 12, 2009 at 1:52 pm

   But presuming that he issued operational orders regarding a squad-level action is simply silly.

   The President’s involvement is pretty high-level on this sort of thing. More like do we make a rescue attempt – yes or no? At that point the professionals take over…

   To presume the President is not involved on that level is very silly indeed.
7. 

   anjin-san

   April 12, 2009 at 1:59 pm

   btw, your coding needs work: /lamesarcasm would be correct in this case
8. 

   Phil Smith

   April 12, 2009 at 2:02 pm

   You’re assuming that there was any chance whatsoever that he would have ordered the Navy to not take advantage of an opportunity that presented itself. That just shows that even you didn’t really trust him to authorize deadly force.

   I’ll reiterate, I’m more than happy – and pleasantly surprised – to give Obama credit for not tying the Navy’s hands. You’re the one who’s implying that he might not leave decisions like that to the professionals.
9. 

   anjin-san

   April 12, 2009 at 2:20 pm

   You’re the one who’s implying that he might not leave decisions like that to the professionals.

   Nope. The President does, however set policy in a situation like this. Any President in such a situation has the option to tell commanders in the field (via the chain of command) to use their own discretion, or to use force immediately. On the other had they might be told that they need permission from higher up to use force regardless of circumstances in the field. There is the case of reports that we had Mullah Omar in our sights in the early days of the Afghanistan war, but government lawyers in DC overruled the commanders in the field because the rules of engagement were not clear, and the shot was not taken.

   We will probably never know too much about what goes on in the situation room, but it seems clear that Obama kept his cool in his first test, and made the correct decision to let the pros do their jobs.

   No doubt this will greatly frustrate much of the right, many of whom clearly were hoping for a bad outcome in this situation. It will be interesting to watch the right wing bloggers adapt for the “blame Obama” strategy to the “deny Obama any credit” strategy. This is already underway at Red State and Malkin’s site. No doubt our own correspondent parrot, bithead will be repeating the party line here shortly. Fox news will probably just pretend that Obama does not exist for the next day or so.

   Politics aside, The Captain & crew of the Maersk Alabama and the U.S. Navy have truly showed “The Right Stuff”.
10. 

    anjin-san

    April 12, 2009 at 2:24 pm

    That just shows that even you didn’t really trust him to authorize deadly force. /reallylame
11. 

    Tlaloc

    April 12, 2009 at 2:37 pm

    I have to laugh at people who really think the US president is sitting in the war room calling shots with regards to a small time boat hijacking. Do these people think the entire military chain of command is for show?

    If the president’s involvement in this situation went beyond an occasional and very quick briefing I’ll eat my hat.
12. 

    anjin-san

    April 12, 2009 at 2:43 pm

    I’ll eat my hat.

    What does a dunce cap taste like?

    Just because Bush was content to be disengaged and let others do the work, does not necessarily mean Obama is. As I have already said, the likely scenario is that he made a high-level policy decision, and the rest was left to the military. That is what a President is supposed to do, and, at this early stage, it appears that it is exactly what he did.
13. 

    Phil Smith

    April 12, 2009 at 2:46 pm

    In the Mullah Omar case, as I recall from Tommy Franks’ book, there were human shields involved, thereby complicating matters somewhat.

    If there were potential diplomatic repercussions to using the Navy to respond to piracy on the open seas, it would be appropriate for the President to intervene at the policy level. No such considerations obtain in this instance. Ergo, it would have been a mistake if he had even considered any course of action other than “settle it peacefully if possible, with force if not, and take advantage of any opportunity that presents itself.” I really hope that was the limit of his involvement. Anything else would have been precisely what “the right” was concerned about.

    Incidentally, I really don’t think anyone on “the right” was “hoping” for a failure here; we certainly were concerned that there would be. I was concerned that Obama would attempt to take tactical command. You make the argument for me when you aver that the professionals might have been told “that they need permission from higher up to use force regardless of circumstances in the field.” That is tactical command. You clearly considered that a possibility. Just be glad that we were both wrong.
14. 

    Phil Smith

    April 12, 2009 at 2:51 pm

    That just shows that even you didn’t really trust him to authorize deadly force. /reallylame

    If it’s so lame, why do you keep stating explicitly that he might have done so?
15. 

    anjin-san

    April 12, 2009 at 3:15 pm

    If it’s so lame, why do you keep stating explicitly that he might have done so?

    Phil, are you as confused as you sound? Nothing, and I mean nothing I said can be construed as my “not trusting him to use deadly force”. You invented that.

    As for Obama having the ability to hamstring the military, of course he does. Any President does. Wisely, he did not. He set policy, and the outcome suggests he did a good job of it.

    Incidentally, I really don’t think anyone on “the right” was “hoping” for a failure here

    You should do more reading.

    If this had come out badly, the right would have crucified Obama. You know it and I know it. The heroes here were the men in the field. But Obama does deserve some credit. I am not holding my breath waiting for the right to give it to him.
16. 

    anjin-san

    April 12, 2009 at 3:19 pm

    You make the argument for me when you aver that the professionals might have been told “that they need permission from higher up to use force regardless of circumstances in the field.” That is tactical command. You clearly considered that a possibility.

    Did I consider it a possibility in this case? No.

    But it is something that is possible, simply by the nature of the powers of the Presidency. That is what I was pointing out. There is a difference.

    Obama just passed the “Walk softly, but carry a big stick” test.
17. 

    Bithead

    April 12, 2009 at 3:20 pm

    About bloody time.

    I have to laugh at people who really think the US president is sitting in the war room calling shots with regards to a small time boat hijacking.

    Right. Is this the same guy who blamed Bush for what you called ‘Gulags’? Riiight.

    I’ll reiterate, I’m more than happy – and pleasantly surprised – to give Obama credit for not tying the Navy’s hands.

    As will I… when I see anything suggesting he didn’t, at first, do so. There are still those two instances of inaction as I mentioned, to explain away.

    Very sad to hear an American citizen hope for our country to fail…

    ]
    You mistakenly ID a statement of fact as a hope, Anjin. Maybe that’s why you follow someone who promises ‘hope and change’, huh?

    We will probably never know too much about what goes on in the situation room, but it seems clear that Obama kept his cool in his first test, and made the correct decision to let the pros do their jobs.

    Clear to you at least. Funny thing, though; weren’t you complaining about Bush doing the same thing in Iraq not so very long ago?

    Your double standards are becoming the stuff of legend.
18. 

    Phil Smith

    April 12, 2009 at 3:24 pm

    If I’m confused, it’s because of statements like this:

    Any President in such a situation has the option to tell commanders in the field (via the chain of command) to use their own discretion, or to use force immediately. On the other had they might be told that they need permission from higher up to use force regardless of circumstances in the field.

    Sure sounds like a recognition that he might have called off the dogs from here. YMMV, I guess.

    Anyway, enjoy the rest of your Sunday. My wife is glaring at me, so it’s time to go to Home Depot.
19. 

    Richard Gardner

    April 12, 2009 at 3:50 pm

    What is unique here is that for once US law is clear regarding what to do with pirates captured against US registered ships (as opposed to say, Panamanian or Liberian). US Code Title 18, Chapter 81 says they can get life imprisonment (which might be a better quality of living than in Somalia). (section 1653)

    Whoever, being a citizen or subject of any foreign state, is found and taken on the sea making war upon the United States, or cruising against the vessels and property thereof, or of the citizens of the same, contrary to the provisions of any treaty existing between the United States and the state of which the offender is a citizen or subject, when by such treaty such acts are declared to be piracy, is a pirate, and shall be imprisoned for life.

    Guess we don’t hang them anymore.
20. 

    G.A.Phillips

    April 12, 2009 at 3:56 pm

    We will probably never know too much about what goes on in the situation room, but it seems clear that Obama kept his cool in his first test, and made the correct decision to let the pros do their jobs.

    His first test was to be like his hero Lincoln and end abortion and free the soon to be murdered babies, He failed.
21. 

    Bithead

    April 12, 2009 at 4:31 pm

    What is unique here is that for once US law is clear regarding what to do with pirates captured against US registered ships (as opposed to say, Panamanian or Liberian). US Code Title 18, Chapter 81 says they can get life imprisonment (which might be a better quality of living than in Somalia). (section 1653)

    Yes, indeed… and our coal mine canary, the UK apparently has gone one step father. Mark Steyn notes:

    Once upon a time we killed and captured pirates. Today, it’s all more complicated. The attorney general, Eric Holder, has declined to say whether the kidnappers of the American captain will be “brought to justice” by the U.S. “I’m not sure exactly what would happen next,” declares the chief law-enforcement official of the world’s superpower. But some things we can say for certain. Obviously, if the United States Navy hanged some eyepatched peglegged blackguard from the yardarm or made him walk the plank, pious senators would rise to denounce an America that no longer lived up to its highest ideals, and the network talking-heads would argue that Plankgate was recruiting more and more young men to the pirates’ cause, and judges would rule that pirates were entitled to the protections of the U.S. constitution and that their peglegs had to be replaced by high-tech prosthetic limbs at taxpayer expense.

    Meanwhile, the Royal Navy, which over the centuries did more than anyone to rid the civilized world of the menace of piracy, now declines even to risk capturing their Somali successors, having been advised by Her Majesty’s Government that, under the European Human Rights Act, any pirate taken into custody would be entitled to claim refugee status in the United Kingdom and live on welfare for the rest of his life. I doubt Pirates of the Caribbean would have cleaned up at the box office if the big finale had shown Geoffrey Rush and his crew of scurvy sea dogs settling down in council flats in Manchester and going down to the pub for a couple of jiggers of rum washed down to cries of “Aaaaargh, shiver me benefits check, lad.” From “Avast, me hearties!” to a vast welfare scam is not progress.

    Emph is my own.

    Sure sounds like a recognition that he might have called off the dogs from here.

    And from here. But forget it, Phil, you’ll never get him to admit it. This is ‘The One’ we’re talking about, all right? The one thing that can be depended upon in this sea of opinion is that Anjin will invariably tilt as far left as possible and then try to label it the moral high ground. It’s a reflex action.
22. 

    anjin-san

    April 12, 2009 at 4:45 pm

    You mistakenly ID a statement of fact as a hope,

    The fact here is that you, in your blind hatred of Obama popped off too soon. The situation ended well, and now you look like a fool. Man up and deal with it.

    As those of us who actually do pay attention to facts know, the operational tempo of the pirates is driven largely by weather conditions, which have in the last few months become seasonally favorable.

    Its regrettable, but not surprising, that you have elected to fogo the traditional Easter meal most of us are enjoying in favor of the right wing “feast of the dunce cap”. Say hello to Taloc for me as you dine…
23. 

    anjin-san

    April 12, 2009 at 4:51 pm

    Sure sounds like a recognition that he might have called off the dogs from here.

    Its a recognigition that, as President, he, like any President, has the power to do so. I never really considered that he might.

    Hope you are having a good holiday. I like to argue about politics, and sometimes get strident in the heat of the moment…
24. 

    Eric

    April 12, 2009 at 4:58 pm

    Bithead at April 11, 2009 14:17 (“Barry & The Pirates”

    One can only assume some kind of standing order is in play here. Gee, where would an order not to attack would have come from, do you suppose?

    Well, well, Bitsy. You were so sure in the “Barry and the Pirates” comments that Obama surely must’ve ordered us not to attack since we had not done so. Now that we did attack, by your very own logic surely you must admit that the order to attack must’ve come from Obama.

    Or are you not man enough to admit you were wrong? I suspect you aren’t man enough.

    Remember, this is your own logic, Bitsy. We all patiently await your official pronouncement.
25. 

    Juanita

    April 12, 2009 at 5:24 pm

    to all those who think our leaders shouldn’t have the power to use deadly force in this situation, you should see the movie a few good men.

    I’m glad to hear those pirates get their asses kicked.
26. 

    just me

    April 12, 2009 at 5:48 pm

    If this had come out badly, the right would have crucified Obama. You know it and I know it. The heroes here were the men in the field. But Obama does deserve some credit. I am not holding my breath waiting for the right to give it to him.

    if this had turned out badly, Obama would have deserved the ridicule.

    I agree that the real heros are those who took the risk to actually free the captain and stop the pirates.

    Obama made the right decision-although i wonder if Bush was in office and made the same decision if you would be crowing about Bush deserving credit. Knowing most of your posts I highly doubt it.
27. 

    tom p

    April 12, 2009 at 6:58 pm

    Boy… A whole lot of jawing goin’ on here and nobody knows what the F they are talking about. Just a lot of supposition based on incomplete information.

    For instance: As of NPR at 4 pm, the standing rules of engagement were that the SEALS were to do NOTHING unless Phillips was in imminent danger of life and or limb. That the only reason the SEALS took out the pirates (w/ sniper rifles in choppy seas, a decidedly iffy proposition) was because at an especially seeming low point in the whole situation, one of them pointed his AK47 at Phillips back. The SEALS took this as a VERY serious threat, asked for permission to shoot from the Captain of the Bainbridge and HE gave it.

    The fact that NO ONE above had anything in the way of factual reports to add to what Dave posted tells me only that none of you are particularly concerned with the truth of a situation, you are just looking for an opportunity to attack your “opponent”… You don’t even need facts to do that.

    Why do I post what NPR said now? Not because they have the “last word” (too soon for the whole story to come out) I just got tired of all of you yapping without adding a GD thing, when it really isn’t very hard to do.
28. 

    tom p

    April 12, 2009 at 7:12 pm

    A couple of points I left out:

    According to the report, the Bainbridge had the pirates under tow at the time of the shooting, at a distance of app 25-30 meters. They were trying to get the lifeboat closer to shore where the seas were more calm.

    Also, the plan was to resolve the whole thing peacefully if at all possible, because once the bullets start to fly, no one can say where they will all land.

    In the end, I can only toast SEAL marksmanship.
29. 

    Pug

    April 12, 2009 at 7:31 pm

    If the president’s involvement in this situation went beyond an occasional and very quick briefing I’ll eat my hat.

    You want fries with that? Politico is reporting President Obama approved orders Friday and Saturday for the Navy to take the shot if it was there. You see, this guy played hoops. He knows you have to be patient and work or the open shot.

    God bless the Navy (my son was a sailor), the SEALS (my cousin’s boy is a SEAL right now), Captain Phillips, President Obama and the USA. To hell with Somali pirates.
30. 

    An Interested Party

    April 12, 2009 at 7:34 pm

    Anyone who thinks its silly to give the president too much credit or any credit at all for the freeing of the captain might want to remember that it was silly to use this entire incident as an excuse to bash the president in the first place…
31. 

    Pug

    April 12, 2009 at 7:37 pm

    The Right does seem a bit flummoxed, don’t they? Bithead is trashing the Royal Navy and Phillips is talking abortion. A little off topic?

    Maybe you should be happy about how this worked out, even if it was under the tyrannical reign of President Barry Hussein.
32. 

    tom p

    April 12, 2009 at 8:00 pm

    Pug, CNN reports the same.

    Also, CNN largely corroborates NPR.

    The Right does seem a bit flummoxed, don’t they?

    You mean with headlines like this?
    Captive Captain Saves President Obama

    Ya gotta love redstate.
33. 

    anjin-san

    April 12, 2009 at 9:17 pm

    i wonder if Bush was in office and made the same decision if you would be crowing about Bush deserving credit. Knowing most of your posts I highly doubt it.

    Just Me.. perhaps you should pay more attention. My father taught me to ALWAYS give credit where credit is due, and I try to live up to that…

    Of Peterus, I must say politics aside, that his accomplishments are very impressive, and I give the Bush administration credit for a successful game plan change that we can file under better late than never…

    Posted by anjin-san | March 27, 2009 | 02:57 pm

    When someone gets it right, even someone like Mr. Bush, who I pretty much despise, I will say “they got it right”.
34. 

    G.A.Phillips

    April 12, 2009 at 9:18 pm

    The Right does seem a bit flummoxed, don’t they? Bithead is trashing the Royal Navy and Phillips is talking abortion. A little off topic?

    Na stopping the murder of millions of innocent babies every year is never off topic, and my point was to the so called test thingy, but who cares about 666, GO NAVY!!!!!!!
35. 

    Eric

    April 12, 2009 at 9:22 pm

    When someone gets it right, even someone like Mr. Bush, who I pretty much despise, I will say “they got it right”.

    Alas, anjin-san, naught but silence from our Bitsy. Pray tell, when will Bitsy give credit where credit is due after giving aspersions where aspersions weren’t due?

    I guess we shouldn’t hold our breath.
36. 

    anjin-san

    April 12, 2009 at 9:23 pm

    Obama twice approved force to rescue hostage

    By JENNIFER LOVEN and PHILIP ELLIOTT, Associated Press Writers — Sun Apr 12, 6:11 pm ET
    WASHINGTON — President Barack Obama twice authorized the military to rescue a U.S. captain who was being held by Somali pirates and whose life appeared to be at risk, administration officials said after Sunday’s rescue.
    The Defense Department twice asked Obama for permission to use military force to rescue Capt. Richard Phillips from a lifeboat off the Somali coast. Obama first gave permission around 8 p.m. Friday, and upgraded it at 9:20 a.m. Saturday. Officials who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss internal deliberations said the second order was to encompass more military personnel and equipment that arrived in the Indian Ocean to engage the pirates.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090412/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_piracy_obama
37. 

    Alex

    April 12, 2009 at 10:33 pm

    I just do not understand why the FBI and the military need president’s permission to rescue a US citizen in a situation like this. The FBI and the Navy should have discretion to use deadly force when facing pirates and kidnappers.
38. 

    Tlaloc

    April 12, 2009 at 11:15 pm

    Right. Is this the same guy who blamed Bush for what you called ‘Gulags’? Riiight.

    As they say the buck stops with the president. He’s ultimately responsible for what occurs in his administration whether he directly orders it or not.

    Politico is reporting President Obama approved orders Friday and Saturday for the Navy to take the shot if it was there.

    And I totally believe it. No really. He also sat down with NASA and corrected their rocketry calculations, and after that he personally drafted the plans for an alternative for Yucca Mountain.

    For reals!

    Please. Are you people so gullible as to believe the president take a personal hand in every piss ant situation that occurs? Have none of you ever worked for an organization of any size? Of course after the fact the whitehouse claims greater involvement because it was a success. If it had been a failure they would have talked about the autonomy of the commanders on the scene. That’s how these things work. It’s how they’ve always worked and it’s how they always will work so long as you have multiple levels of delegation.
39. 

    anjin-san

    April 12, 2009 at 11:47 pm

    Are you people so gullible as to believe the president take a personal hand in every piss ant situation that occurs?

    Of course not. But this was not a “piss and situation”. Or perhaps you just don’t understand the significance of the seizure of an American Flag vessel.

    Of course after the fact the whitehouse claims greater involvement because it was a success.

    Thats not what they are claiming. They are just reporting that the President authorized the use of military force.

    That’s how these things work.

    Well, that’s how it worked under Bush. When there was a failure, the buck stooped anywhere in the solar system except the President’s desk. During the AIG bonus furor Obama said: “ultimately I’m responsible, I’m the President of the United States.” I know that the concept of a President taking responsibility confuses the hell out of any bushie.

    I guess one course of your dunce cap meal was not enough for you. Bon Appetite!
40. 

    Richard Gardner

    April 13, 2009 at 12:08 am

    Alex

    I just do not understand why the FBI and the military need president’s permission to rescue a US citizen in a situation like this. The FBI and the Navy should have discretion to use deadly force when facing pirates and kidnappers.

    You have obviously never been a Naval Officer in the modern age. I have been.

    Back in the days of sailing ships a ship’s Captain was basically an Ambassador. Look at Perry in Japan. There was no immediate connection to DC, it was at month’s plus delay.

    Today, policy matters. The actions of any ship’s Captain (or FBI office) reflect back immediately on the Executive. Back then the local Captain was the only source on information as to the local reality; today we have CNN and Al Jazeera, both biased. A single ship Captain’s decision should not send the USA into war today.

    We went to war once on bad information (Remember the Maine), let it not happen again.
41. 

    DavidL

    April 13, 2009 at 10:01 am

    I am sure that somewhere in the Navy training regiment for naval commanders, they teach their prospective captains not to seek permission for situations which can be resolved by following published rules of engagement.

    The Captain and Crew of the Bainbridge dispatched three Somali pirates, and detained a fourth, IAW their rules of engagement. The Captain of the Bainbridge had all the authority he needed. He used it. Job well done, Gentlemen.
42. 

    davod

    April 13, 2009 at 10:15 am

    DavidL:

    So in 2006 when the Winston S. Churchill recaptured a Dhow that had been captured by pirates and freed the sixteen man Indian crew they sought higher authority before doing so?

    Heavens, it wasn’t even a US flagged Dhow.
43. 

    Tlaloc

    April 13, 2009 at 1:23 pm

    But this was not a “piss and situation”. Or perhaps you just don’t understand the significance of the seizure of an American Flag vessel.

    the term is piss ant and yes it was. This wasn’t the seizure of an American vessel it was a single hostage situation. The American vessel was long since un-seized.

    They are just reporting that the President authorized the use of military force.

    And that I do actually believe. That’s a five second conversation. I suspect the president did indeed have that much time to spare on the topic. But both sides have tried to play this as if Obama was heavily involved in the decision making which is just stupid.

    Well, that’s how it worked under Bush.

    Its how it works under anyone. Obama taking blame once doesn’t change that there is an entire apparatus in place to take credit for any victory and to brush off any failure. You’re reading this as me attacking Obama, and it isn’t. Again- this is just how it works when you have levels of delegated authority. Praise moves up and blame moves down. The trick is not to believe the PR.

    I know that the concept of a President taking responsibility confuses the hell out of any bushie.

    This suggests you are calling me a bushie. That’s pretty damn funny, or really it isn’t because it strongly suggests your one of the dems who immediately adopted bush’s “you’re either with me or against me” rhetoric as soon as it applied to a dem president. The thing I really dislike about Obama is how much he’s caused dems to embody the worst aspects of the GOP under Bush. If I don’t toe the Obama PR line then I simply must be a bushie.

    Lovely.
44. 

    An Interested Party

    April 13, 2009 at 8:09 pm

    The thing I really dislike about Obama is how much he’s caused dems to embody the worst aspects of the GOP under Bush.

    How exactly has he done that…
45. 

    anjin-san

    April 13, 2009 at 9:24 pm

    the term is piss ant and yes it was

    No doubt you know all about “piss ant” as it so accurately describes the tone of your whining.

    This has been the lead story in the county for what, almost a week now? Run along junior…