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Steven L. Taylor is a retired Professor of Political Science and former College of Arts and Sciences Dean. His main areas of expertise include parties, elections, and the institutional design of democracies. His most recent book is the co-authored A Different Democracy: American Government in a 31-Country Perspective. He earned his Ph.D. from the University of Texas and his BA from the University of California, Irvine. He has been blogging since 2003 (originally at the now defunct Poliblog).
Follow Steven on Twitter and/or BlueSky.
Then it’s war!
Then it’s war!
Gather the forces!
Harness the horses!
Then it’s war!
We got guns,
They got guns,
All God’s children got guns!
Oh, hi-de, hi-de, hi-de, hi-de, hi-de, hi-de-ho.
As Andy was saying yesterday, the conditions are right. Very nearly prefect, setting aside US alleged refusal to help.
Interesting position for Trump. He supposedly had a phone call with Netanyahu hours ahead of the strike and demanded Bibi hit the pause button. So, either Trump has no sway over Netanyahu, or the call is just ass-covering, pretending we have no involvement. I have a hard time believing our intelligence only learned about this attack hours before launch, though I can easily imagine Trump not bothering with briefings.
Our planes may not be helping Israel, but I’d bet our intelligence assets are. And if we assume Israel’s jets took the direct route, that would be over Jordan and/or Syria then the Kurdish areas of northern Iraq. Syria doesn’t have much of a government yet and has no realistic means to interfere. Could Trump have pressured Jordan or the Kurds to close their air space? I’m also curious how Turkey sees this.
It looks like Israel must have taken the IAEA “non compliance” statement as reason/excuse to start the music.
Perhaps especially as the Iranian response was to declare the IAEA as being “politically motivated” and do a routine defiance dance performance.
Its difficult to believe the US and Israel did not know what the IAEA was about to say, what the probable Iranian response would be, and, on the part of the US, how Jerusalem was going to act.
That the US knew what was coming is indicated by the decision to pull out embassy staff .
But it may also indicate the US did NOT get more than a day advance notice that the strike was going to happen.
So, the administration knew, and stood aside?
And/Or: The decision was made very rapidly
And/Or: Israel did not tell the US, and the US did not discover it.
If Israel had determined on an attack, not informing Washington makes sense either to avoid US demand to desist, or pragmatically that the recent clown show in Washington provides ample reason not to cc DC too far ahead.
The question, of course, is was this decision driven primarily by strategic calculation by the IDF, or by the recently trend to decision making in Jerusalem being distorted by Netanyahu’s political self-interest.
One indication that though the decision may have been taken quickly, the planning was in place for some time: the operation was NOT just air strikes on sites.
It appears about a dozen prominent Iranian scientists were personally targeted and killed, along with at least half a dozen IRGC senior commanders.
Obtaining targeting information on these persons will have almost certainly have required fairly extensive on-the-ground espionage operations.
1932 was one of the worst years of the Great Depression in America. The unemployment rate ballooned to nearly 24%. Desperate people, pushed by economic and environmental disaster, took to the roads looking for work, food and shelter. For most Americans, there was no relief. For World War I veterans who were owed money from the federal government, they had one more option.
In 1924, WWI veterans won a one-time payment from Congress — up to $625 — for their service in the war. It might sound like a pittance, but when adjusted for inflation, that $625 would be worth around $16,000 today. The catch? It would only be paid out in 1945.
In May 1932, a group of veterans calling themselves the Bonus Expeditionary Forces decided that wasn’t soon enough and made its way to Washington, D.C., to demand immediate payment. Dubbed the “Bonus Army” by the press, their ranks quickly swelled to nearly 20,000 (although some estimates suggest up to 40,000) as more veterans and their families — unemployed, hungry and angry at their treatment — set up camps along the Anacostia River and squatted in vacant federal buildings.
…
1932 was one of the worst years of the Great Depression in America. The unemployment rate ballooned to nearly 24%. Desperate people, pushed by economic and environmental disaster, took to the roads looking for work, food and shelter. For most Americans, there was no relief. For World War I veterans who were owed money from the federal government, they had one more option.
In 1924, WWI veterans won a one-time payment from Congress — up to $625 — for their service in the war. It might sound like a pittance, but when adjusted for inflation, that $625 would be worth around $16,000 today. The catch? It would only be paid out in 1945.
In May 1932, a group of veterans calling themselves the Bonus Expeditionary Forces decided that wasn’t soon enough and made its way to Washington, D.C., to demand immediate payment. Dubbed the “Bonus Army” by the press, their ranks quickly swelled to nearly 20,000 (although some estimates suggest up to 40,000) as more veterans and their families — unemployed, hungry and angry at their treatment — set up camps along the Anacostia River and squatted in vacant federal buildings.
…
On July 28, things came to a head. D.C. officials, under pressure from President Herbert Hoover, ordered the city police to begin evicting remaining members of the Bonus Army. Two veterans were shot by police and died during an eviction — with both sides saying the other started the violence. Local leaders requested federal help, recognizing an eviction of several thousand desperate people would take more manpower than they had.
…
Enter three of the most venerated 20th-century Army legends
Douglas MacArthur, the Army chief of staff at the time, “personally led a contingent of six hundred infantry, mounted cavalry, and tanks into the city,” with the goal to evict thousands of veterans and their families from their encampments. Dwight D. Eisenhower, MacArthur’s aide, was adamantly opposed.
Maj. George S. Patton, directing the troops under his command to fix bayonets: “If they are running, a few good wounds in the buttocks will encourage them. If they resist, they must be killed.”
…
Hoover twice sent word for MacArthur to end the military operation and not cross the Anacostia River, but the future supreme commander of the Allied Forces refused to obey White House orders both times.
The public recoiled from the story and from the commander in chief as accounts circulated through the country. “If the Army must be called out to make war on unarmed citizens, this is no longer America,” the Washington Daily News opined.
I have a hard time believing our intelligence only learned about this attack hours before launch,
I don’t find that hard to believe at all. Everything’s in chaos and we’ve blown our credibility…who on earth is going to share intel with us with this crew in charge?
re: “No Kings” gatherings, for Sat 14th, nationwide.
I’ve signed up for the one in Pensacola FL, but I’m really torn if I will go.
Why: This place is really red, ie: the place that reelected Matt Gaetz even knowing about his sex w/ underage escorts (sex trafficking). Add to that the Navy base and generations of retired veterans, and a lot of pickup trucks with Trump flags. And guns. Lots of guns.
So… I want to show solidarity, but the zeitgeist of impending fascism is really making me second guess participation.
Attributed to Thomas Paine, the quote: “The duty of a true Patriot is to protect his country from its government.” resonates with me… but standing up for the fist amendment is a lot harder here. Kind of frightening really.
I don’t find that hard to believe at all. Everything’s in chaos and we’ve blown our credibility…who on earth is going to share intel with us with this crew in charge?
Jen,
We don’t need to get the intelligence from outside sources. There is the NRO which does satellite surveillance. The Israeli military had to be making preparations for some time and that is hard to keep secret from satellite surveillance.
This place is really red, ie: the place that reelected Matt Gaetz even knowing about his sex w/ underage escorts (sex trafficking).
Yuck. Shameful for Republicans to die on the hill of miscreants like Gaetz and the Jan 6 terrorists Trump pardoned and released.
You should put your safety first. I’ve been to Pensacola for its big gay pride Memorial Day weekend festivities and not felt unwelcomed or unsafe. Quite the opposite. Of course, this is a different event.
I’ve signed up for the one in Pensacola FL, but I’m really torn if I will go.
Why: This place is really red, ie: the place that reelected Matt Gaetz even knowing about his sex w/ underage escorts (sex trafficking). Add to that the Navy base and generations of retired veterans, and a lot of pickup trucks with Trump flags. And guns. Lots of guns.
And with Ron DeSantis Saying Floridians Have Right to Hit Protesters With Cars , this really adds another factor of concern.
Dear wife and I were planning to eat at Shake Shack in Boca Raton tomorrow. We eat out there on average once a month**. DW doesn’t want to do it now because she worries about protests taking place.
**- When home, DW and I only eat out for dinner 1 or two times a month. One or two or sometimes zero times a month we either get McDonalds or B King for lunch.
In a Quinnipiac poll released a day earlier, nearly six in 10 voters from all parties said Republicans in Congress should do more to check Trump’s power. He was similarly underwater with independents on the issue of immigration, though by a smaller margin. Both polls showed Trump’s popularity hovering just below the 40 percent mark.
Even as Trump sought to project an image of imposing law and order on a lawless city run by Democrats, a YouGov poll released on Monday showed his decision to send in Marines against the wishes of state and local leaders was unpopular.
@Liberal Capitalist: I encourage you to go and participate as you can. I’m in active discussion with a friend and Army vet in his mid-50s. He’s kind of a “classic Democrat” who’s appalled by the regime, and the talks we’re having are about volume of turnout. It’s like an election, in that no one person is going to sway the whole thing one way or another, but you’re counting yourself among the objectors.
Don’t get me wrong, safety is obviously a huge concern for a lot of people, especially in unfriendly territory. But standing up to this brand of authoritarianism demands turnout even in places where you think things are unfriendly…my guess is that you’ll find a lot more common causers than you thought, and some people might surprise you.
@Liberal Capitalist:
I won’t pretend to advise you on what to do. Regardless of whether you protest, and assuming you have the financial means*, another option is to place a large order from Lickin Good or Maynard’s Donuts, and deliver them to the protesters. Coffee too.
*My impression from past comments is that you do, but things change and my impression can be totally off.
@Bill Jempty: Yep, and we have the NSA, which is all signals intel, and CIA also has satellites. But, since the administration has fired/provided early retirement/we have agencies otherwise in chaos, things WILL get missed. Having photos from satellites doesn’t matter if there’s no one reading them.
I think we’re in an incredibly dangerous time right now, because we’ve severely hobbled our intel capabilities from within (under-staffing + “deep state” nonsense) and we’ve destroyed our credibility externally as well.
But, since the administration has fired/provided early retirement/we have agencies otherwise in chaos, things WILL get missed.
How much chaos is there really? I related not long ago Dear Wife and I applying for Social Security benefits. We both were approved and our first money in 5 weeks time. For me it was quicker, because DW had to supply SS with her naturalization certificate first.
5 weeks isn’t chaos in my book. Waiting over 5 months for your spouse’s immigrant relative petition to be approved and being separated because of it is no fun. That was 1989, by 1999 when DW was applying for her mother to immigrate it took a little over a year. Today immigration approval varies. I have one nephew who came to the US as a nurse and another who is still working in the UK and waiting for approval.
Kingdaddy says:
Friday, 13 June 2025 at 00:00
I just have to point out that, on the day when a US Senator was thrown to the floor and handcuffed for exercising free speech, some people on this forum are spending time trying to parse some rando’s ludicrous definition of “leftist.”
@Liberal Capitalist: I remember being stuck in a car with my elderly parents when we were about a block from a protest which turned ugly. I would have run people over to protect my parents.
That’s an older article (March), probably attributable to the fact that many remaining employees are watching the behavior of other departments (like Noem and Hegseth) trotting out polygraphs for their own employees. Morale is very, very low.
Having photos from satellites doesn’t matter if there’s no one reading them.
This.
But even if the photos get seen and interpreted correctly and in a timely manner, there has to be someone in authority who receives this intel and acts on it. With Gabard in charge and El Taco at the top, there may as well be no one.
Low morale among intelligence employees is nothing new if you know anything about James Jesus Angleton’s search for Sasha. That went on during 4 presidencies, two Democratic and two Republican.
@Bill Jempty: I grew up in and around this community, and have friends who followed in their parents’ footsteps and entered similar lines of work. I am very, very familiar with what I am speaking about.
Endless summer: how Brian Wilson soundtracked California
The Beach Boys favored bucolic imagery in many of their songs, imagining California as a mythical place full of fancy cars (Little Deuce Coupe; the drag race chronicle Shut Down) with the best-looking women (California Girls) and tastiest surf reports (Catch a Wave). These lyrics captured charming – and innocent – scenes that resembled colorful postcards mailed to the rest of the world: joyriding to the beach, spending the day surfing and dreaming of romance. Wilson brought sophistication to these sun-kissed pop songs, elevating the music with virtuosic insights; for example, he later demonstrated to a journalist how Bach inspired California Girls. But the Beach Boys’ songs also positioned California as a place of its consistency; the state represented a respite from turbulent politics and shifting cultural norms.
California has served as mecca for a number of trends, many quite endearing and pleasurable, but never in my recollection, as a respite from “turbulent politics and shifting cultural norms.” That respite was an aspirational and compelling construct, in part the work of musicians and filmmakers. California was, and may still be, a vanguard of cultural change for not just this country, but the world. All eyes on L.A.
Having said that, the California of the 1960’s, 1970’s and into the 1980’s was pretty damn glorious. And it kept on coming in waves.
Proposal: blue states should eliminate all funding for their state national guards and replace them with some sort of state police auxiliary that can continue the civil crisis response functions but which are not available to be federalized
@Liberal Capitalist: We’re heading out to join a good many of our friends —- all of whom are “staid,” contributing members to our society (makers and givers) and some probably voted Republican a few times in the past —- completely defying the characterizations of some trolling rightwing nutters/empty barrels who frequent this site.
Just keep a bandana and a bottle of water handy.
Make yourself heard. No Kings, no dictators, no sociopaths dictating policy.
There has been a certain amount of tough rhetoric in anticipation of the demonstrations planned for tomorrow. I note that the looting and burning of cars in Los Angeles occurred after the ICE crackdowns started. Is it possible that a vigorous police presence provokes unrest in some cases rather than preventing it? There must be some balance point between prevention and provocation especially in a place like Florida where firearm possession is normal and citizen use of violence like driving into crowds is approved.
I want to share a quote from Newsom’s press conference on the court decision.
“I saw the tweet about Governor Newscum. By the way, it’s hardly original. There was an eighth-grader on Baltimore Street in Corte Madera that used to call me that”
Oh snap.
I would definitely vote for him as president of shit talking.
PSA Duncan’s final ep on the Martian Revolution dropped today (at last). It’s almost an hour long. I’ll have to finish it on the drive home later today. Hopefully Duncan will announce a tentative timeline for the next installment of Revolutions, if he doesn’t change his mind.
@Jay L Gischer:
That was quite a press conference. There was an interesting run where Newsome said, among other things, that trump is a “stone cold liar.”
The video below of the briefing from NBCLA is cued up to prior to some of the core and interesting statements form Newsom, including his communications with the White House and the nickname part.
The federal judge’s (the administration has taken to calling them “local judges” when they don’t like the outcome) decision was paused by an appeals court later that night, but that doesn’t diminish Newsom’s message.
I appreciate all the feedback… as much as I would like to participate in a peaceful protest, I think that this story has really pushed me toward the “nope, no way” category…
“If you throw a brick, a firebomb, or point a gun at one of our deputies, we will be notifying your family where to collect your remains, because we will kill you, graveyard dead.”
McIver indicted! (for pushing an ICE agent) Padilla detained! (for breaking up a press conference) Sheriff threatens violence! (if attacked)
Kristi Noem is up there saying she is going to overthrow our lawfully elected government. At a moment where military forces have been activated, and some people are mad that Alex Padilla spoke out of turn at a press conference.
We’re gonna need a honeywagon to haul all of that bullshit.
I suspect Eisenhower’s deep commitment to the vets of WW2 stems from his being one of the officers who had to charge the WW1 vets that day. He did a fair job of hitting up the industrialists for the cash after WW2, massive taxation above a certain level of income did a number on those who would’ve been WW2’s “Daddy Warbuckses”. They still did well, but nowhere near as well as their predecessors had. The difference between how the vets were treated after WW1 compared to they were treated after WW2 is night and day, anyway.
@dazedandconfused: Yes, that was an important influence on Ike’s thinking. Among the Army’s top commanders in WW2, Eisenhower and Bradley were commoners, whereas MacArthur and Patton were aristocrats.
McIver indicted! (for pushing an ICE agent) Padilla detained! (for breaking up a press conference) Sheriff threatens violence! (if attacked)
See the pattern?
Jan 6 terrorists fundraised for, pardoned, released, and given taxpayer money by Trump and Republicans! (For beating and traumatizing cops to death, defecating on floors, vandalizing government property, erecting a gallows, chanting for assassination, attacking the Capitol, and breaking up the peaceful transfer of power)
There’s a No Kings demo planned for my Mass. town, but the exact location hasn’t been revealed yet. I really don’t know why, unless it’s to keep the municipal and state police in the dark. But what about anyone who wants to show up for it? How will they know where to go? The time’s been established: 4 to 5 p.m.
I have a bad feeling about tomorrow. I hope I’m wrong.
@Fortune: My example shows Republican are phonies who lionize violent rightwing criminals, thugs, and and terrorists while faking support for law and order, to justify conservatives’ fascist attacks on US civilians.
and some people are mad that Alex Padilla spoke out of turn at a press conference
We’re gonna need a honeywagon to haul all of that bullshit.
Same Republican scammers who support Trump even as he incited, then pardoned and released the criminals whose violent Jan 6 thuggery resulted in the death and suicides of multiple Capitol police.
Phony, hypocritical bs is the entire oeuvre of the modern right. They insisted we had to save money by mass firings of middle class government workers and by gutting US Aid, killing people worldwide and diminishing US soft power.
Now they’re lined up behind Trump and his drunken, drug-addled incompetents wasting $200+ million on a rapist’s USSR-style birthday parade and domestic militarism, while pushing a budget that’ll add trillions to the deficit and rip healthcare from millions.
Just fraud and fakery from the contemporary “conservatives,” all the way round.
Why bother to do what? I said what I said. I’m not doing unpaid internet research to prove well-known, easily-verifiable facts to a lying Trump cuck who’s such an amoral, unethical lying coward he can’t even admit he’s a Trump supporter.
Google is still free. A dumb, Trump-licking liar’s inability to use it is not my problem.
Because it’s a waste of your time replying to an obvious troll. Your comments are generally insightful and informative. But don’t expend your intellectual energy fruitlessly engaging with a whiny, badgering, manipulative jackass whose only function is to irritate people.
New info on the Air India crash. Apparently the 787 took up all the runway before finally taking off. If so, this indicates a major, major, major problem. What problem? That’s what the investigation is for. It might have been the wrong trim pushing the nose down, no flaps, bad engines, thrust set to the wrong level, and lots of other things.
On a related note, the flight data recorder has been found. No word as yet on whether the data can be read. It will likely be sent to the NTSB in DC anyway.
The depth and breadth of Republican hypocrisy and moral lapse, ceases to stun. Only bitter disgust remains.
Republican in South Carolina arrested over distribution of child sexual abuse material
RJ May, who used screen name ‘joebidennnn69’, charged with 10 counts and ordered to remain jailed until his trial
The three-term Republican is accused of using “joebidennnn69” to exchange 220 files of toddlers and young children involved in sex acts on the Kik social media network for about five days in spring 2024, according to court documents that graphically detailed the videos.[..]
After May’s election in 2020, he helped create the Freedom caucus, a group of the house’s most conservative members who say mainstream Republicans in the chamber are not the true conservative heart of their party. He also helped the campaigns of Republicans running against the party’s house incumbents.
“We as legislators have an obligation to insure that our children have no harm done to them,” May said in January 2024 on the house floor during a debate on transgender care for minors.
The majority of the lefty commenters have only hurling invective, mostly a mix of juvenile, hyperbolic, unsubstantiated, unwarranted and self serving. Some have logic. But few. An echo chamber like no other. But it apparently serves a purpose, providing psychological comfort to the disturbed. So I guess there is that.
A large percentage of your comments consist of invective, insults, unsubstantiated claims, self-serving economics dogma, and hyperbolic claims based on shady statistics.
Your persona is that of a long-time listener, nightly caller. Not noticeably angry much of the time. But always a dismissive smugness that would make Reynolds blush.
At least MR doesn’t try to pimp a corrupt Justice in the comments of a political blog.
They have body armor, guns, and the backing of a lawless administration that is free to commit crimes, and has the pardon power. One that suggested banning facemasks for protesters.
Yet, they cover their faces. Cowards.
Shouldn’t be a surprise that it would find apologists in intellectual cowards.
McIver indicted! (for pushing an ICE agent) Padilla detained! (for breaking up a press conference) Sheriff threatens violence! (if attacked)
See the pattern?
Because it needs to be said: yes, I see a pattern. I see a pattern of inappropriate application of law enforcement power. I see attempts to intimidate political opposition,
Mciver should not have been indicted.
Padilla should not have been removed and cuffed.
And sheriffs shouldn’t be talking about deadly force in the face of planned peaceful protests as protected by the First Amendment.
And if you support these things you are supporting proto-fascism. Full stop.
If we’re talking about routine online Social Security retirement applications, where all of the person’s information and earnings are reflected correctly in their online account, that might not be the best measure of SSA performance. In that case, you can see exactly what your monthly benefit will be before you apply, and the SSA just needs to give it their official okey dokey. But there are so many people who do or did receive benefits for disabilities, or as a surviving spouse, or a surviving child, who have been divorced, maybe remarried, can’t navigate the online account for some reason, or can’t even obtain a login.gov or id.me login to access their information. They may need to talk to someone, visit an office, or wait for an employee to review their case before telling them what their next step in the application process will be. I’m just spitballing here–I haven’t had to face any of these issues, but I can begin to imagine how difficult it could be without SS employees available to help.
McIver indicted! (for pushing an ICE agent) Padilla detained! (for breaking up a press conference) Sheriff threatens violence! (if attacked)
See the pattern?
I would have preferred the full context of the quote, yes. If only to pre-empt the predictable response.
It does not change anything about the point being made by @Liberal Capitalist. Fortune’s claim is non-responsive. ETA: In my view, it is telling that Fortune did not seem to understand the problem any of us had with the Sheriff’s words.
Imagine the combination of traits and beliefs it takes to accuse a specific person of dishonesty or bias, as well as claim a pattern of dishonesty on the part of a poorly defined, shape-shifting* group, and as evidence, willfully decontextualizing and distorting events so they fit the pattern.
Shameful for our resident ‘instructor’.
*I disagree with his criticism of my engagement with Fortune on the topic, but Kingdaddy accurately described the latter’s definition of leftist as ludicrous.
I would have preferred the full context of the quote, yes. If only to pre-empt the predictable response.
Point taken, although I am not looking for a response.
I just found the ongoing excuses for what is clearly the use of/threat of force to intimidate opponents and to discourage opposition in need of calling out.
Then it’s war!
Then it’s war!
Gather the forces!
Harness the horses!
Then it’s war!
We got guns,
They got guns,
All God’s children got guns!
Oh, hi-de, hi-de, hi-de, hi-de, hi-de, hi-de-ho.
As Andy was saying yesterday, the conditions are right. Very nearly prefect, setting aside US alleged refusal to help.
Interesting position for Trump. He supposedly had a phone call with Netanyahu hours ahead of the strike and demanded Bibi hit the pause button. So, either Trump has no sway over Netanyahu, or the call is just ass-covering, pretending we have no involvement. I have a hard time believing our intelligence only learned about this attack hours before launch, though I can easily imagine Trump not bothering with briefings.
Our planes may not be helping Israel, but I’d bet our intelligence assets are. And if we assume Israel’s jets took the direct route, that would be over Jordan and/or Syria then the Kurdish areas of northern Iraq. Syria doesn’t have much of a government yet and has no realistic means to interfere. Could Trump have pressured Jordan or the Kurds to close their air space? I’m also curious how Turkey sees this.
It looks like Israel must have taken the IAEA “non compliance” statement as reason/excuse to start the music.
Perhaps especially as the Iranian response was to declare the IAEA as being “politically motivated” and do a routine defiance dance performance.
Its difficult to believe the US and Israel did not know what the IAEA was about to say, what the probable Iranian response would be, and, on the part of the US, how Jerusalem was going to act.
That the US knew what was coming is indicated by the decision to pull out embassy staff .
But it may also indicate the US did NOT get more than a day advance notice that the strike was going to happen.
So, the administration knew, and stood aside?
And/Or: The decision was made very rapidly
And/Or: Israel did not tell the US, and the US did not discover it.
If Israel had determined on an attack, not informing Washington makes sense either to avoid US demand to desist, or pragmatically that the recent clown show in Washington provides ample reason not to cc DC too far ahead.
The question, of course, is was this decision driven primarily by strategic calculation by the IDF, or by the recently trend to decision making in Jerusalem being distorted by Netanyahu’s political self-interest.
One indication that though the decision may have been taken quickly, the planning was in place for some time: the operation was NOT just air strikes on sites.
It appears about a dozen prominent Iranian scientists were personally targeted and killed, along with at least half a dozen IRGC senior commanders.
Obtaining targeting information on these persons will have almost certainly have required fairly extensive on-the-ground espionage operations.
A little military history.
That Time the Army Gassed Veterans Protesting for Benefits
I don’t find that hard to believe at all. Everything’s in chaos and we’ve blown our credibility…who on earth is going to share intel with us with this crew in charge?
re: “No Kings” gatherings, for Sat 14th, nationwide.
I’ve signed up for the one in Pensacola FL, but I’m really torn if I will go.
Why: This place is really red, ie: the place that reelected Matt Gaetz even knowing about his sex w/ underage escorts (sex trafficking). Add to that the Navy base and generations of retired veterans, and a lot of pickup trucks with Trump flags. And guns. Lots of guns.
And with Ron DeSantis Saying Floridians Have Right to Hit Protesters With Cars , this really adds another factor of concern.
So… I want to show solidarity, but the zeitgeist of impending fascism is really making me second guess participation.
Attributed to Thomas Paine, the quote: “The duty of a true Patriot is to protect his country from its government.” resonates with me… but standing up for the fist amendment is a lot harder here. Kind of frightening really.
@Jen:
Jen,
We don’t need to get the intelligence from outside sources. There is the NRO which does satellite surveillance. The Israeli military had to be making preparations for some time and that is hard to keep secret from satellite surveillance.
@Liberal Capitalist:
Yuck. Shameful for Republicans to die on the hill of miscreants like Gaetz and the Jan 6 terrorists Trump pardoned and released.
You should put your safety first. I’ve been to Pensacola for its big gay pride Memorial Day weekend festivities and not felt unwelcomed or unsafe. Quite the opposite. Of course, this is a different event.
@Liberal Capitalist:
Dear wife and I were planning to eat at Shake Shack in Boca Raton tomorrow. We eat out there on average once a month**. DW doesn’t want to do it now because she worries about protests taking place.
**- When home, DW and I only eat out for dinner 1 or two times a month. One or two or sometimes zero times a month we either get McDonalds or B King for lunch.
@Liberal Capitalist: I encourage you to go and participate as you can. I’m in active discussion with a friend and Army vet in his mid-50s. He’s kind of a “classic Democrat” who’s appalled by the regime, and the talks we’re having are about volume of turnout. It’s like an election, in that no one person is going to sway the whole thing one way or another, but you’re counting yourself among the objectors.
Don’t get me wrong, safety is obviously a huge concern for a lot of people, especially in unfriendly territory. But standing up to this brand of authoritarianism demands turnout even in places where you think things are unfriendly…my guess is that you’ll find a lot more common causers than you thought, and some people might surprise you.
@Liberal Capitalist:
I won’t pretend to advise you on what to do. Regardless of whether you protest, and assuming you have the financial means*, another option is to place a large order from Lickin Good or Maynard’s Donuts, and deliver them to the protesters. Coffee too.
*My impression from past comments is that you do, but things change and my impression can be totally off.
@Bill Jempty: Yep, and we have the NSA, which is all signals intel, and CIA also has satellites. But, since the administration has fired/provided early retirement/we have agencies otherwise in chaos, things WILL get missed. Having photos from satellites doesn’t matter if there’s no one reading them.
I think we’re in an incredibly dangerous time right now, because we’ve severely hobbled our intel capabilities from within (under-staffing + “deep state” nonsense) and we’ve destroyed our credibility externally as well.
@Jen: Not to mention putting people like Tulsi Gabbard in positions of significance within the intelligence bureaucracy.
@Jen:
How much chaos is there really? I related not long ago Dear Wife and I applying for Social Security benefits. We both were approved and our first money in 5 weeks time. For me it was quicker, because DW had to supply SS with her naturalization certificate first.
5 weeks isn’t chaos in my book. Waiting over 5 months for your spouse’s immigrant relative petition to be approved and being separated because of it is no fun. That was 1989, by 1999 when DW was applying for her mother to immigrate it took a little over a year. Today immigration approval varies. I have one nephew who came to the US as a nurse and another who is still working in the UK and waiting for approval.
The two topics are inseparable.
@Steven L. Taylor:
I suspect whichever poor sod from NSA has got stuck with being Gabbard’s liaison officer is probably pretty close to taking up day-drinking.
@Liberal Capitalist: I remember being stuck in a car with my elderly parents when we were about a block from a protest which turned ugly. I would have run people over to protect my parents.
@Bill Jempty:
Quite a bit. It’s internal, but the staffing reductions and early retirements are causing problems.
Inside U.S. spy agencies, workers fear a cataclysmic Trump cull
That’s an older article (March), probably attributable to the fact that many remaining employees are watching the behavior of other departments (like Noem and Hegseth) trotting out polygraphs for their own employees. Morale is very, very low.
@Jen:
This.
But even if the photos get seen and interpreted correctly and in a timely manner, there has to be someone in authority who receives this intel and acts on it. With Gabard in charge and El Taco at the top, there may as well be no one.
@Jen:
Low morale among intelligence employees is nothing new if you know anything about James Jesus Angleton’s search for Sasha. That went on during 4 presidencies, two Democratic and two Republican.
@Bill Jempty: I grew up in and around this community, and have friends who followed in their parents’ footsteps and entered similar lines of work. I am very, very familiar with what I am speaking about.
Never never land of our golden dreams.
California has served as mecca for a number of trends, many quite endearing and pleasurable, but never in my recollection, as a respite from “turbulent politics and shifting cultural norms.” That respite was an aspirational and compelling construct, in part the work of musicians and filmmakers. California was, and may still be, a vanguard of cultural change for not just this country, but the world. All eyes on L.A.
Having said that, the California of the 1960’s, 1970’s and into the 1980’s was pretty damn glorious. And it kept on coming in waves.
Proposal: blue states should eliminate all funding for their state national guards and replace them with some sort of state police auxiliary that can continue the civil crisis response functions but which are not available to be federalized
@Liberal Capitalist: We’re heading out to join a good many of our friends —- all of whom are “staid,” contributing members to our society (makers and givers) and some probably voted Republican a few times in the past —- completely defying the characterizations of some trolling rightwing nutters/empty barrels who frequent this site.
Just keep a bandana and a bottle of water handy.
Make yourself heard. No Kings, no dictators, no sociopaths dictating policy.
@Stormy Dragon:
—- or feralized.
There has been a certain amount of tough rhetoric in anticipation of the demonstrations planned for tomorrow. I note that the looting and burning of cars in Los Angeles occurred after the ICE crackdowns started. Is it possible that a vigorous police presence provokes unrest in some cases rather than preventing it? There must be some balance point between prevention and provocation especially in a place like Florida where firearm possession is normal and citizen use of violence like driving into crowds is approved.
I want to share a quote from Newsom’s press conference on the court decision.
“I saw the tweet about Governor Newscum. By the way, it’s hardly original. There was an eighth-grader on Baltimore Street in Corte Madera that used to call me that”
Oh snap.
I would definitely vote for him as president of shit talking.
PSA Duncan’s final ep on the Martian Revolution dropped today (at last). It’s almost an hour long. I’ll have to finish it on the drive home later today. Hopefully Duncan will announce a tentative timeline for the next installment of Revolutions, if he doesn’t change his mind.
@Jay L Gischer:
That was quite a press conference. There was an interesting run where Newsome said, among other things, that trump is a “stone cold liar.”
The video below of the briefing from NBCLA is cued up to prior to some of the core and interesting statements form Newsom, including his communications with the White House and the nickname part.
The federal judge’s (the administration has taken to calling them “local judges” when they don’t like the outcome) decision was paused by an appeals court later that night, but that doesn’t diminish Newsom’s message.
News conference video, NBCLA
E.g., “This is what he does; he creates a problem, and then he tries to be a hero in his own Marvel movie.”
I appreciate all the feedback… as much as I would like to participate in a peaceful protest, I think that this story has really pushed me toward the “nope, no way” category…
Florida sheriff warns protesters ahead of nationwide rallies: ‘We will kill you dead”
Video footage of above news conference
I want to protest to support the 1st and 14th amendment … they’re ready for a war with a body count.
I’m not quite ready for martyrdom… but still, I’ll make that decision tomorrow.
@Liberal Capitalist: You should have given the full quote:
“If you throw a brick, a firebomb, or point a gun at one of our deputies, we will be notifying your family where to collect your remains, because we will kill you, graveyard dead.”
McIver indicted! (for pushing an ICE agent) Padilla detained! (for breaking up a press conference) Sheriff threatens violence! (if attacked)
See the pattern?
E. Jean Carroll’s book about her trials with Trump is coming out on June 17.
The title is Not My Type.
Kristi Noem is up there saying she is going to overthrow our lawfully elected government. At a moment where military forces have been activated, and some people are mad that Alex Padilla spoke out of turn at a press conference.
We’re gonna need a honeywagon to haul all of that bullshit.
@Scott:
I suspect Eisenhower’s deep commitment to the vets of WW2 stems from his being one of the officers who had to charge the WW1 vets that day. He did a fair job of hitting up the industrialists for the cash after WW2, massive taxation above a certain level of income did a number on those who would’ve been WW2’s “Daddy Warbuckses”. They still did well, but nowhere near as well as their predecessors had. The difference between how the vets were treated after WW1 compared to they were treated after WW2 is night and day, anyway.
@dazedandconfused: Yes, that was an important influence on Ike’s thinking. Among the Army’s top commanders in WW2, Eisenhower and Bradley were commoners, whereas MacArthur and Patton were aristocrats.
@Fortune:
Jan 6 terrorists fundraised for, pardoned, released, and given taxpayer money by Trump and Republicans! (For beating and traumatizing cops to death, defecating on floors, vandalizing government property, erecting a gallows, chanting for assassination, attacking the Capitol, and breaking up the peaceful transfer of power)
What happened to the pattern?
@DK: My examples show a pattern of leftists trying to provoke a fight and generate sympathy over a week headed into national protests.
@DK: Which cops were beaten or traumatized to death?
@Liberal Capitalist:
There’s a No Kings demo planned for my Mass. town, but the exact location hasn’t been revealed yet. I really don’t know why, unless it’s to keep the municipal and state police in the dark. But what about anyone who wants to show up for it? How will they know where to go? The time’s been established: 4 to 5 p.m.
I have a bad feeling about tomorrow. I hope I’m wrong.
@Slugger:
Shooting reporters with rubber bullets for no reason certainly doesn’t help de-escalate.
@Fortune: My example shows Republican are phonies who lionize violent rightwing criminals, thugs, and and terrorists while faking support for law and order, to justify conservatives’ fascist attacks on US civilians.
@Fortune:
Google is free.
What happened to the pattern?
@DK: Oh, Google.
None.
@DK:
FFS, why bother? You’re far too smart for this nonsense.
@CSK: Not even close. I gave three examples demonstrating a pattern and he responded with a non sequitur containing a falsehood.
@Jay L Gischer:
Same Republican scammers who support Trump even as he incited, then pardoned and released the criminals whose violent Jan 6 thuggery resulted in the death and suicides of multiple Capitol police.
Phony, hypocritical bs is the entire oeuvre of the modern right. They insisted we had to save money by mass firings of middle class government workers and by gutting US Aid, killing people worldwide and diminishing US soft power.
Now they’re lined up behind Trump and his drunken, drug-addled incompetents wasting $200+ million on a rapist’s USSR-style birthday parade and domestic militarism, while pushing a budget that’ll add trillions to the deficit and rip healthcare from millions.
Just fraud and fakery from the contemporary “conservatives,” all the way round.
@CSK:
Why bother to do what? I said what I said. I’m not doing unpaid internet research to prove well-known, easily-verifiable facts to a lying Trump cuck who’s such an amoral, unethical lying coward he can’t even admit he’s a Trump supporter.
Google is still free. A dumb, Trump-licking liar’s inability to use it is not my problem.
@Fortune:
What happened to the pattern with the violent Jan 6 terrorists Trump incited, pardoned and released, Trump cuck?
@DK:
Because it’s a waste of your time replying to an obvious troll. Your comments are generally insightful and informative. But don’t expend your intellectual energy fruitlessly engaging with a whiny, badgering, manipulative jackass whose only function is to irritate people.
@CSK: I know what I’m doing. I got this. He might be irritated, but I’m not.
@DK:
I leave it to you, then.
New info on the Air India crash. Apparently the 787 took up all the runway before finally taking off. If so, this indicates a major, major, major problem. What problem? That’s what the investigation is for. It might have been the wrong trim pushing the nose down, no flaps, bad engines, thrust set to the wrong level, and lots of other things.
On a related note, the flight data recorder has been found. No word as yet on whether the data can be read. It will likely be sent to the NTSB in DC anyway.
The depth and breadth of Republican hypocrisy and moral lapse, ceases to stun. Only bitter disgust remains.
So this parade…is Trump going to masturbate in the open, during it, or wait to watch the replay?
@Daryl:
And let everyone know he has something even smaller than his tiny hands?
Observation of the day.
The majority of the lefty commenters have only hurling invective, mostly a mix of juvenile, hyperbolic, unsubstantiated, unwarranted and self serving. Some have logic. But few. An echo chamber like no other. But it apparently serves a purpose, providing psychological comfort to the disturbed. So I guess there is that.
@Connor:
“hurling invective, mostly a mix of juvenile, hyperbolic, unsubstantiated, unwarranted and self serving.”
Have you ever read what Trump tweets or heard his words?
@Connor:
A large percentage of your comments consist of invective, insults, unsubstantiated claims, self-serving economics dogma, and hyperbolic claims based on shady statistics.
Your persona is that of a long-time listener, nightly caller. Not noticeably angry much of the time. But always a dismissive smugness that would make Reynolds blush.
At least MR doesn’t try to pimp a corrupt Justice in the comments of a political blog.
https://x.com/jonfavs/status/1933651260072440103
Anyone who told me I was overreacting a few months ago can go fuck themselves…. repeatedly.
@EddieInCA:
They have body armor, guns, and the backing of a lawless administration that is free to commit crimes, and has the pardon power. One that suggested banning facemasks for protesters.
Yet, they cover their faces. Cowards.
Shouldn’t be a surprise that it would find apologists in intellectual cowards.
@Connor: Vaguecast much?
Too bad it isn’t possible to share specific references so that others can evaluate. If only such technology existed!
Because it needs to be said: yes, I see a pattern. I see a pattern of inappropriate application of law enforcement power. I see attempts to intimidate political opposition,
Mciver should not have been indicted.
Padilla should not have been removed and cuffed.
And sheriffs shouldn’t be talking about deadly force in the face of planned peaceful protests as protected by the First Amendment.
And if you support these things you are supporting proto-fascism. Full stop.
I mean, who thinks a US Senator should be shoved out a room, wrestled to the floor, and cuffed for asking a fucking question?
He was in the Federal Building.
He was escorted into the room.
He was wearing a US Senate shirt.
He has been a statewide political figure for a decade.
He has been in LA politics since 1999.
At worst he was rude. Rude doesn’t mean shoving, tackling, and cuffing.
Especially not if you are a US Senator.
If you are defending this, be honest with yourself.
@Bill Jempty:
How much chaos is there really?
If we’re talking about routine online Social Security retirement applications, where all of the person’s information and earnings are reflected correctly in their online account, that might not be the best measure of SSA performance. In that case, you can see exactly what your monthly benefit will be before you apply, and the SSA just needs to give it their official okey dokey. But there are so many people who do or did receive benefits for disabilities, or as a surviving spouse, or a surviving child, who have been divorced, maybe remarried, can’t navigate the online account for some reason, or can’t even obtain a login.gov or id.me login to access their information. They may need to talk to someone, visit an office, or wait for an employee to review their case before telling them what their next step in the application process will be. I’m just spitballing here–I haven’t had to face any of these issues, but I can begin to imagine how difficult it could be without SS employees available to help.
@Steven L. Taylor:
I would have preferred the full context of the quote, yes. If only to pre-empt the predictable response.
It does not change anything about the point being made by @Liberal Capitalist. Fortune’s claim is non-responsive. ETA: In my view, it is telling that Fortune did not seem to understand the problem any of us had with the Sheriff’s words.
Imagine the combination of traits and beliefs it takes to accuse a specific person of dishonesty or bias, as well as claim a pattern of dishonesty on the part of a poorly defined, shape-shifting* group, and as evidence, willfully decontextualizing and distorting events so they fit the pattern.
Shameful for our resident ‘instructor’.
*I disagree with his criticism of my engagement with Fortune on the topic, but Kingdaddy accurately described the latter’s definition of leftist as ludicrous.
@Mimai:
We did a Tesla protest a bit ago and the Volvo dealership nearby brought us doughnut holes! It was awesome!
@Kurtz:
Point taken, although I am not looking for a response.
I just found the ongoing excuses for what is clearly the use of/threat of force to intimidate opponents and to discourage opposition in need of calling out.