Friday’s Forum

FILED UNDER: Open Forum
Steven L. Taylor
About Steven L. Taylor
Steven L. Taylor is a retired Professor of Political Science and former College of Arts and Sciences Dean. His main areas of expertise include parties, elections, and the institutional design of democracies. His most recent book is the co-authored A Different Democracy: American Government in a 31-Country Perspective. He earned his Ph.D. from the University of Texas and his BA from the University of California, Irvine. He has been blogging since 2003 (originally at the now defunct Poliblog). Follow Steven on Twitter

Comments

  1. Bill Jempty says:

    Former baseball pitcher Bob Veale has passed away at 89. Veale was a very hard throwing lefthander who played mostly for the Pittsburgh Pirates from 1962 to 1974. I know Veale well from my strat o matic baseball replaying. RIP.

    Anita Bryant has died also. She was 84. Beauty Queen, orange juice commercial spokesperson and anti-LGBTQ crusader. I remember Bryant from her television commercials and her leading the movement against a gay discrimination ordinance in Dade County. That was 1977, I was new to Florida* and my parents used to watch channel 10 news from Miami. It seemed the only thing they were reporting at the time.

    Bryant was a Christian who believed homosexuality is a sin. My wife hold holds similar views and her straight husband makes a living writing LGBTQ themed sci-fi books. I know DW prays for me daily. Pray for your enemies or people you disagree with or you think are doing wrong and let God render the final judgment. I think that is a good philosophy. RIP Anita.

    *- My family moved to Florida in June 1976.

    4
  2. albAmeda says:

    @Bill Jempty:
    Reminds me ….
    I was in high school in the late sixties and the word ‘gay’ was not then commonly used with reference to gay persons. The words used were ‘homo’ or ‘fag’. Never a positive word. If one was gay one kept that very very private. We’ve come a long way since then, but …

    I’m now wondering if this Republican Party or Roberts Supreme Court will takes us a few steps back?

    4
  3. Tony W says:

    @Bill Jempty: I’m confident that anybody with such strong feelings against homosexuality – particularly those who believe it’s a choice that people make – are fighting to make that choice for themselves every day.

    You’d think that would engender in me some sympathy and grace for them, but I also recognize that they have the option of keeping their mouth shut and letting people be people instead of spreading hate and evil.

    6
  4. Scott says:

    Next week Senate committee hearings begin on all kinds of nominations. There are some really bad, unqualified nominations. I fear the Senate will prioritize decorum over politics like they did the previous 4 years. We don’t need any more Schumer-Durbin like nonsense. I think Democrats (since even the few remaining rational Republicans will roll over) need to “bring the nasty”, as Gregg Popovich once told his team, and fight.

    1
  5. Bill Jempty says:

    The stolen weedeater/whacker that led to the shooting of a innocent man in Kentucky case gets more interesting.

    Let’s start by summarizing a little bit

    The warrant was for property belonging to a local judge executive named Westerfield. After the police raid Westerfield say the weedwhacker wasn’t theirs but just the property of someone else.
    There is no body camera footage of the shooting that took place because London KY police stopped using bodycams approximately a year ago.
    London KY’s mayor has attacked the people expressing outrage over what happened saying its politically motivated. The same mayor says he and the city of London won’t make comment on the shooting because there is an investigation under way.

    Well, somebody leaked a recorded phone call by Westerfield to the police after the shooting. Westerfield who publicly denied knowing anything about it is heard in the recording talking about the weedwhacker, it belonging to his nephew, etc etc. The whole recording can be found here.

    A Civil Rights lawyer has a video on the case that can be found here.

    So the London KY police, at the behest of a local official, raided the wrong house and killed an innocent man. Local and non-local people are outraged by what happened but I’m betting nothing will ever happen to the people involved in this.

    Again, another case of police getting away for murder and local officials if not involved in it, covering up for what is totally inexcusable behavior.

    3
  6. Kathy says:

    @Bill Jempty:

    Anita Bryant has died also

    Good riddance.

    7
  7. DK says:

    Elizabeth May proposes California, Oregon, Washington join Canada after Trump’s 51st state threat (National Post)

    “You think we want to be the 51st state? Nah. Maybe California would like to be the 11th province. How about it? California, Oregon, Washington,” she said.

    “Have we got a deal for you; free health care. Universal free health care. No more one-year-olds who suddenly fall off the Medicaid list and their parents are in the news because they’re trying to do a GoFundMe to get their daughter to a doctor,” May told a Parliament Hill press availability last week.

    She also pledged “safer streets,” “strict gun laws” and free abortions, and said if the United States allowed the secession of its West Coast it would “get rid of all these states that always vote democrat.”

    Sounds like a win-win.

    9
  8. Michael Reynolds says:

    @DK:
    Why just the west coast? I’m sure New England, New York, New Jersey and Maryland would like to get in on this.

    8
  9. DK says:

    Seen on r/Republican:

    Trump needs to stop doing this.
    As a conservative who voted for him this election, I’m excited for what Trump has to bring in his 2nd term. However, he needs to stop talking about taking Greenland, Canada, and the Panama Canal. Him talking about taking over Canada is a joke obviously. Still, with Greenland and the Panama Canal, he sounds serious, and this gives the media and the democrats something to talk about and make Trump sound like an aggressor. Trump hasn’t even been inaugurated yet, and he’s already talking about annexing territories. It really isn’t a good look.

    Nah, Trump should keep up the warmongering rhetoric, and anti-Trumpers should amplify it lol

    6
  10. Scott says:

    @Michael Reynolds: And Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Michigan.

    4
  11. Michael Reynolds says:

    @Bill Jempty:

    Pray for your enemies or people you disagree with or you think are doing wrong and let God render the final judgment. I think that is a good philosophy.

    No, it’s not. We cannot just say, inshallah, and let it go. Evil must be opposed, not by some fantasy creature, but by us. Truth must be protected, by us. Justice and the rule of law are ours to defend. There is no god, and if there were we’d long-since have fired him for failure to perform his duties.

    8
  12. CSK says:

    @Michael Reynolds:

    Well, there go 95% of the brains of the country.

    2
  13. DK says:

    Some of today’s headlines:

    “US hiring grows at robust pace, indicating Trump will inherit healthy economy”

    “US hiring grows at robust pace, indicating Trump will inherit healthy economy”

    “U.S. adds 256,000 jobs, as Biden leaves Trump with sturdy labor market”

    I’m old enough to remember when economists assured us a recession was coming under Biden.

    When Trump takes office in 10 days and starts taking credit for Biden’s hard work with no changes in economic data — and with the press following his lead — we will suddenly stop hearing the word “inflation.” Those suddenly saying how great the economy is will be met with agreement, rather than accused of out-of-touch liberal condescension.

    So, so suddenly.

    8
  14. Michael Reynolds says:

    A word about accountants, least respected of professionals. Before we hired Trina, April 15 was a horror. We cringed, waiting to see how much we owed the IRS, and it was always a lot. Even as a liberal Democrat, writing a six figure check to the IRS is not a good time. We were always behind, and we always paid at least five figures in penalties.

    Yesterday I had my annual Zoom with Trina. For the fourth year in a row, we are paid up in full. And as a bonus, Trina listed all of our subscriptions. That came to more than $16K a year, which is obscene. I went down the list and 12K of that is money pissed away for nothing. I kind of hate myself for letting this tumor grow. Now Trina is going to cancel all but about 10 items. (Don’t worry, OTB, keeping our various Patreons.)

    Waste, fraud and abuse, and all perpetrated by us.

    We found Trina by searching for accountants who specialized in writers. IOW, people pathologically incapable of self-discipline (except in work), people who sink into comas at the sight of numbers and would rather perform their own appendectomies than deal with paperwork.

    5
  15. Kathy says:

    I drove my new old car to work today. I managed to adjust the seat and mirrors, eventually I found the heat/ac controls, but failed to pair my phone to the car’s bluetooth. I thought I’d check the manual over the course of the day, but the glove compartment is locked.

    Usually I’d just take the key and unlock it, but the FOB didn’t come with keys of any sort. I’ll have to hunt them down over the weekend. Meantime, my very old bluetooth speaker soldiers on.

    The car has two screens to the side of the dashboard. One seems to do navigation, but I’ve no idea how to use it. It doesn’t look like Android auto. On the plus side, it also displays the rear view camera when you engage reverse. That is a nice feature.

    Last, it has tinted windows. I don’t like that. It makes the side mirrors seem to be in perpetual twilight. I hope this was an add-on, like with a tinted film, that can be removed.

    1
  16. Bill says:

    @Michael Reynolds: Michael,

    I saw a forum regular here express hatred for persons they could not name or knew anything about except they were Republicans. I compared it rightly to the blind hate Nazis had for Jews and southerners for blacks. Other than me, crickets could be heard around here.

    Like that I stand by what I said above. Let God rule if homosexuality is wrong or not.

    1
  17. Stormy Dragon says:
  18. Barry says:

    @Kathy: “Usually I’d just take the key and unlock it, but the FOB didn’t come with keys of any sort. I’ll have to hunt them down over the weekend. ”

    On my Ford fob, you can squeeze and detatch one end , which has a key in it.

  19. Michael Reynolds says:

    @Bill:
    Hating Republicans is about hating their ideas and their actions. Hating Blacks or Jews has nothing to do with their ideas or actions. There is no equivalency.

    We have an obligation to oppose evil by every legal and moral means. Handing our responsibilities off to god, whether real or not, is an abdication of our duty, a moral failure, and cowardice. You have this exactly backward. You are, in effect, defending hatred of Jews or Blacks because it was, and remains, our clear moral obligation to oppose that hatred.

    I’m sure you know the quote: The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. Hopes and prayers are nothing.

    10
  20. Jay L Gischer says:

    I make a distinction between what people think, and what they do.

    So praying over someone because they are a homosexual, or because they are a trans person, or the loving father of a trans person – I don’t agree, but I don’t feel I need to take any action.

    Whereas when someone spreads lies about trans people I will speak up and oppose those lies.

    5
  21. becca says:

    We are getting a beautiful quiet snowfall. Not getting out of these hills for a few days. Fine by me.
    Sadie is like a postman – neither rain, nor what looks to be about 6-7 inches of snow will keep her from an invigorating morning hike. Ours were the only prints in the snow.
    Good news is I have arctic overalls and good warm snow boots. Bad news is that it’s like walking back up a ski slope in full gear for 45 minutes to an hour. It felt like a leg of an Ironman triathlon. Of course, Sadie was tots unfazed and not slowed down a bit. Tank girl.
    I did see a beautiful red crested woodpecker banging away on an old persimmon tree. I read that woodpeckers don’t have a special genetic adaptation that keeps them from hurting themselves. They concuss themselves on a regular basis.

    4
  22. gVOR10 says:

    @Bill Jempty: Erik Loomis at LGM commented yesterday on the passing of Anita Bryant. Not exactly a lament.

    In 2021, Bryant’s granddaughter married another woman. And that’s the best place to end this obituary.

    7
  23. gVOR10 says:

    @Michael Reynolds: Blacks and Jews, even Jews who convert, can’t stop being Blacks and Jews. Republicans can and should stop being Republicans. As our estimable hosts did. (To my chagrin, as this was once about the only place I could find intellectually honest conservatism.)

    5
  24. Mister Bluster says:

    @albAmeda:..fag
    When I was in Junior High School (’61) a fag was a cigarette. I might have known about homosexuality but it wasn’t something I thought about much. When I started the 8th grade in a new school in a new state I joined the choir. On the first day our choir director, Mr. Perkins said something like “before the rumors start” and then told us that he was married to his cousin and that they had a young man living with them “for personal reasons”. It all went over my 13 year old head. Somewhere down the road years later I had a eureka moment. That’s what he was talking about!

    4
  25. Kathy says:

    @Barry:

    I managed to find it after someone told me how to get at it. It’s not at all obvious, and the tiny bump one has to slide to release the key from inside the FOB is subtle to the point of near invisibility.

    Of course, it is spelled out in the manual I couldn’t get at. Classic Catch 22.

    1
  26. Lucysfootball says:
  27. Mister Bluster says:

    @Bill:..Let God rule if homosexuality is wrong or not.

    How long do we have to wait for God’s ruling and how will anyone know what God’s ruling is?
    Are you going to tell us?
    How many homosexuals around the world will be killed by others while God bides his time making this decision?

    3
  28. Gustopher says:

    @Bill Jempty: Anita Bryant was a strong, proud woman who spoke up for what she believed in: bigotry, hate, and not minding her own fucking business.

    I hope her passing was long and painful.

    May her grave be perpetually defiled.

    3
  29. Gustopher says:

    @Tony W:

    I’m confident that anybody with such strong feelings against homosexuality – particularly those who believe it’s a choice that people make – are fighting to make that choice for themselves every day.

    I’m sure that’s true sometimes, but I don’t think it’s the majority.

    Some people just get off on hate. If they’re ever given permission to hate, they will.

    No one* hates Jews because they have secret Jewish inclinations.

    All too often people hate because they are hateful people.

    ——
    *: there’s bound to be someone, but really rare.

    3
  30. MarkedMan says:

    @Mister Bluster: For that matter, if there is a god, a creator, who the hell cares what it thinks about moral matters? It didn’t create a moral world. Morality is our invention, a damn good one, and it’s up to us to perfect it as best we can.

    If this possible god/creator has something to say about that, I’m sure it knows where I’m at and it can speak to me personally. I’m sure this all powerful being doesn’t need men in dresses or bad suits to get in between and tell me what it wants me to do.

    4
  31. Not the IT Dept. says:

    @Bill:..Let God rule if homosexuality is wrong or not.

    Question: how come everyone who disagrees with your wife has to wait for God’s judgement but your wife doesn’t? How has she got that taped? She can say anything she wants but we can’t? Seems awfully convenient for your wife. Please explain.

    7
  32. DK says:

    @Not the IT Dept.: Y’all need to leave that man’s wife alone, lol

    2
  33. Kathy says:

    I feel that I will irretrievably move into the old column if I ever say something like “the functions in this car are too damned complicated.” So I’m trying very hard not to say it.

    But I’m tempted.

    I managed to find the key and unlock the glove compartment with the manual inside. the manual is far too detailed, taking like five lines to indicate how to turn a knob. Not to mention that some functions are like distributed randomly among several pages. This is a common feature of car manuals, which is why they’re the printed books least read in the whole world.

    I should have more luck as I get some time to figure things out on my own. And it’s not like a I need to pair the phone with the car. One reason I had a bluetooth speaker in the car, was that I could turn the engine off and not cut out the audio with the book still playing. Before that, I used the AUX port in the stereo to play books and podcasts.

    I do miss the Corolla already.

    1
  34. Kathy says:

    Remember the mess in commercial aviation when sanctions on Russia led to the end of aorplane leases for several Russian airlines?

    A lot of it is playing out in the Irish courts, lessors vs insurers.

    I’m sure this makes business sense for the lessors, But morally, this lets Russia off the hook for pretty much stealing jets they used to lease. If/when the insurers pay, at severely reduced rates no doubt, they’ll be out a few billion$, and the various Russian airlines keep the planes. It’s not like the insurers can go collect part of their losses from Russia.

    Not that I feel bad about the insurers (who does?), but a crime i a crime, and the Mad Vlad regime is complicit.

    2
  35. Gustopher says:

    @MarkedMan:

    If this possible god/creator has something to say about that, I’m sure it knows where I’m at and it can speak to me personally

    I think a lot of harm has been done by this possible god talking to people personally, as they seem to be saying different things to different people.

    If they have infinite power and infinite wisdom and all that, they can show up, do a few miracles so we know it’s them, and then just explain things to everyone, clearly and succinctly. Maybe even set up a customer service line, where questions such as “can I hate my neighbor?” are answered. An FAQ would be nice.

    4
  36. CSK says:

    Trump says he and Obama “probably do” like each other. Why would Obama like Trump?

    1
  37. Fortune says:

    @Gustopher: If God were infinitely smarter he’d think like you.

  38. Kathy says:

    @Gustopher:

    Maybe he never thought any two of these people would ever be in the same room.

    @CSK:

    I never thought of Obama as having poor taste.

    1
  39. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @Mister Bluster: I think his point is just MYOB. I don’t see why you should object to that position.

  40. dazedandconfused says:

    @Michael Reynolds:
    I can’t utterly dismiss it because I approve of humility, which is what that doctrine encourages. What is the road to hell paved with?

    The Germans of the 30’s had utterly convinced themselves the Jews and the commies were the epitome of evil. A pause is necessary for the frontal lobes to build a case against our faster-functioning brain stems, and that is what this idea creates, a pause.

    2
  41. CSK says:

    @Kathy:

    Me neither.

  42. dazedandconfused says:

    Pizzagate shooter shot dead by NC police.

    He sleeps with the anchovies…

    5
  43. dazedandconfused says:

    @CSK: I think the question is why Trump might think Obama likes him, and that could be due to Obama remaining civil in their private conversations.

    1
  44. Bobert says:

    @Michael Reynolds:
    And Ohio….. please Ohio.

    1
  45. Lucysfootball says:

    I don’t know if Obama hates anyone, but if he does IMO Trump would definitely be very high on that list. Michelle has said she will always remember the birth certificate crap, and I think that is not something that Barack Obama will ever forget (or forgive, not that Trump would ever apologize).

  46. Mister Bluster says:

    MYOB

    Like the Klan warned the “outsiders” who tried to register black voters in Mississippi in 1964.

    1
  47. CSK says:

    @dazedandconfused:

    Trump likes to tell himself that everyone loves him.

  48. JohnSF says:

    @DK:
    @Michael Reynolds:
    Also Minnesota, Michigan, Wisconsin, and northern Ohio and Pennsylvania?
    Return unto the loving embrace of the Commonweath!
    We shall willingly forgive your various impertinances.

  49. Tony W says:

    Obama is smart enough not to cut off the tiny bit of influence he might have with Trump – even if it’s just membership and acceptance in the former president’s club. Those are the kinds of norms that will temper Mr. Trump just a tiny bit. He loves the trappings and the historical legacy stuff.