Never say I can’t admit agreement when agreement is due.
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Via MSN: Trump endorses permanent daylight saving time.
I am down with that.
The older I get, the less I like changing the time. Just pick one and leave it, and my personal preference would be to stick with DST.
(Of course, there may be a “broken clock is right…” joke in there somewhere).
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It’s like when Stalin once said that in WWII the British provided the time, the Americans the money, and the Soviets the blood.
This is true, but not the whole truth. The Soviets also provided the war to begin with.
I’m not suggesting Trump is being dishonest with DST. I mean, he probably is, because he usually is. But there’s nothing to gain in this case.
So one should just ignore Dennison, even when one agrees with him. it’s not worth the hassle.
Of course, there may be a “broken clock is right…” joke in there somewhere
It had already occurred to me before I even clicked on the headline, Steven.
Since Trump has taken both sides of pretty much any issue at some point in his career, I have often agreed with what he was saying at the moment. I think it’s an unwarranted stretch, though, to label any statement he makes as “his opinion”. That would require “assuming facts not in evidence”, as the lawyers sometimes say.
Obviously Trump read my post on Sunday. 🙂
@Andre Kenji de Sousa: I am not sure it would require any of that. Keep in mind that I believe we are only on standard time something like 4 months of the year as it is.
Yes, DST would mean darker mornings. I am not sure that matters as much as is made out to be (I used to be more persuaded, but the older I get the less I like the twice yearly time change).
@Steven L. Taylor: In São Paulo, that’s crossed by Tropic of Capricorn, Permanent Daylight Saving would require school children to have their first hour of school in the dark in July. The WHOLE continental United States is to the North of Tropic of Cancer.
But regardless of Daylight Savings schooldays beginning at 7:00 a.m are a criminal atrocity any way.
“But regardless of Daylight Savings schooldays beginning at 7:00 a.m are a criminal atrocity any way.”
And unfortunately unlikely to change, as earlier school days serve the interests of two powerful groups: local merchants, who can pick up cheap high school labor for afternoon shifts; and sports coaches, who get more time for after-school practices.
@Andre Kenji de Sousa: Oh great. Now I have to google septentrional. 🙂
I expect that some web thingie will find the article again, but sometime recently, I saw an article that claimed that permanent DST would provide all but 2 small regions in the US more daylight between the hours of 6am and 9pm more days than we get now. But I do agree that the merchant/coach bloc creates powerful sentiments against the change.
@Andre Kenji de Sousa: no it wouldn’t. It *might* result in a shift later in some cases but a shift doesn’t mean shorter.
As far north as I am, I detest the idea of sticking with DST. It would stay dark here until almost 9 a.m. in the winter months. Sticking with standard time would be fine.
Part of the argument for DST is energy savings, but recent studies revealed mixed results. In some cases, it appears as though the additional daylight encourages people to delay chores, putting them off to the later, and hotter, part of the day–causing a net increase in energy used.
@Jen: Everything I have read over the years suggests the energy saving argument is bogus.
@Andre Kenji de Sousa: With all due respect, a lot of the arguments made for changing time seem to assume that the school day MUST start at the same clock time throughout the school year.
If the main problem is getting to school in the dark, then change the school starting time during the dark months. Shorten the school day for all I care (and/or change to a year-round school schedule).
[Since our state requires full-day kindergarten now, we’ve got 5-year-olds in school from 9am to 4pm, five days a week. It totally wears them down, with no improvement in testing outcomes. But I’m veering off-topic here.]
I just think there’s other solutions to the problem everyone cites. I’m missing why you think there “needs” to be shorter work days.
I have long been an advocate of taking it one step further – eliminate Time Zones altogether.
There is nothing written in stone tablets that everyone must get to work at 8 AM local time. If we all just adopted, say, GMT, then as a west coaster I’d be accustomed to calling the time I get up “11:00” (we get up early).
In our global world it would simplify cross-country and international phone calls, delivery times, etc. if we could just say “let’s talk at 1400” instead of “let’s talk at 2:00 PM Eastern Daylight Savings Time”.
Like Esperanto, the Dvorak keyboard, and the metric system in America, I realize this too much change to ask the world to adopt.
I am not sure that matters as much as is made out to be
Speaking as the thumbs and fingers of a union carpenter who had to work in the dark from time to time, it matters a lot. 😉
@Tony W:
Like Esperanto, the Dvorak keyboard, and the metric system in America, I realize this too much change to ask the world to adopt.
But most of the world uses the Metric System. So that’s 0.99 out of three. It’s a start.
Esperanto is, ironically, a niche universal language.
The Dvorak keyboard, as I understand, is fantastic. If you type in English. And if you use all ten fingers on the keyboard.
Speaking as the thumbs and fingers of a union carpenter who had to work in the dark from time to time, it matters a lot.
To be a bit of smartass for a minute: I would recommend some sort of portable light in such circumstances, regardless of the time 😉
@Franklin:
With all due respect, a lot of the arguments made for changing time seem to assume that the school day MUST start at the same clock time throughout the school year.
No. The argument for changing time is that the difference between of times for sunset and for sunrise in a continental country like the United States are too big. Specially because the whole United States is located to the North of the Tropic of Cancer. There are the infamous sunsets at 4:00 pm in Boston already.
I think that regardless of DST you’d have a good argument for shorter workdays and for later school times. But simply implementing DST for the whole year or eliminating timezones would not be feasible. There would have to be some discussion about additional timezones and for not having children going to school three hours before sunrise.
There are the infamous sunsets at 4:00 pm in Boston already.
Yes, but that would be during Standard time 😉
@Kathy:
But most of the world uses the Metric System.
“The metric system is the tool of the devil! My car gets forty rods to the hogshead, and that’s the way I likes it!”
But simply implementing DST for the whole year or eliminating timezones would not be feasible. There would have to be some discussion about additional timezones and for not having children going to school three hours before sunrise.
Sunrise and sunset happen independently of clocks. Indeed, I’ve had clocks stop working because the battery went dead and found that it got dark, anyway.
All of which is to say: schools and offices could adjust their schedules around the sun. There’s no reason for everyone to change their clocks twice a year. Indeed, since daylight shifts a little every day—and the amount of light is not constant regardless of when sunrise occurs—there’s no way to keep up with this variation with clock changes.
, I’ve had clocks stop working because the battery went dead and found that it got dark, anyway.
I was trying to think of a non-snarky, non-exasperated way to say the same thing. Thanks for showing me that was unnecessary…
Like Esperanto, the Dvorak keyboard, and the metric system in America, I realize this too much change to ask the world to adopt.
even though I’ve used QWERTY longer, I can actually touch type in Dvorak, and can’t touch type in QWERTY. In Dvorak you keep your fingers on the home keys most of the time so there’s less stretching and getting misaligned.
@Teve:
Because, you know, the QWERTY keyboard was literally designed to slow down the typist to avoid the mechanical keys jamming if two or more of them were approaching the paper in close proximity. (I remember as a child getting them to jam on purpose – somehow we found that entertaining.) Dvorak keyboards make sense only in a digital world.
To be a bit of smartass for a minute: I would recommend some sort of portable light in such circumstances, regardless of the time.
Everyone likes a little ass but no one likes a wise ass.
When I was working the telephone lines there were some circuits, toll routes, alarms, lines to FAA towers, 911 loops and others that, in non emergency situations, could only be worked in a window of time between midnight and 5 AM.
No matter how much artificial light is provided from spotlights or lights attached to hardhats or holding a flashlight between your teeth while you are hooking a telephone pole there are always shadows that can impede work.
Even if the weather is overcast daylight is far superior when the work is outside.
@Steven L. Taylor: Can’t speak to energy savings, but when my illustrious Senator, the Hon. Slade Gorton (R-WA) proposed extending to early March and out to late October back in the 80s (??), the rationale he offered was something on the order of $40 million in additional revenue to the hotel industry because of an extended vacation travel season.
@just nutha: That makes no sense to me at all…was he suggesting school schedules would shift?
There are the infamous sunsets at 4:00 pm in Boston already.
Right, with permanent DST this area would instead be home to the 9:00 a.m. sunrise.
The dark in winter is extended, as is the daylight in summer. It’s just one of the things we deal with, I guess. At least it doesn’t get too hot here for extended periods of time.
Sunrise and sunset happen independently of clocks. Indeed, I’ve had clocks stop working because the battery went dead and found that it got dark, anyway.
We would. But we still uses clocks instead of the sun to follow the time. 😉 You’d need some other changes instead of just extending DST. Not that I would be against any of these changes…
@Steven L. Taylor: As someone who walks his dogs early in the morning (and sees many other people out walking at that time), I disagree. Changing clocks is annoying but it’s better than the alternative (to me).
@Kathy:
Esperanto is, ironically, a niche universal language.
Ĉu vi parolas Esperanton? Mi komencis lerni iam, sed ne daŭrigis.
(Yeah, I know, what a geek…)
@Steve V: BTW: I fully understand that this issue is not going to have any kind of universal consensus. I would prefer to stay on DST, others would not, and yet others on Standard Time.
I suspect that nothing will happen in any event.
(The original post was intended to be at least partially tongue-in-cheek).
@Steven L. Taylor: If nothing indeed happens, it would be a loss. All the evidence shows that changing clocks kills people. Pick one or the other but stop sacrificing lives on the alter of refusing to change/agree.
@SKI: It would be nice to pick a time and stay there.
@Steven L. Taylor: Particularly for the people who aren’t injured or killed as a result.
Using a database of mining injuries from the National Institute of Occupational Safety and Health, we discovered that the spring shift to daylight saving time resulted in a 6 percent increase in mining injuries and a 67 percent increase in workdays lost because of these injuries.
Advocates of perpetual DST have some statistics on their side. Adding an hour of sunlight in the evening year-round would save the lives of more than 170 pedestrians annually, according to a 2004 study in Accident Analysis and Prevention. The lives of nearly 200 vehicle occupants would also theoretically be saved by the change.
http://time.com/3549442/daylight-saving-time-traffic-deaths/
In his 2014 paper on the relationship between DST and fatal vehicle crashes, Austin C. Smith, an assistant professor of economics at Miami University, reports a 6.3% increase in fatal car accidents for six days following the spring time change.
https://www.aeaweb.org/articles?id=10.1257/app.20140100
Many studies have shown that DST is associated with an increase in heart attacks, with one study showing a 24 percent increase in the number of heart attacks on the Monday after DST at a group of Michigan hospitals. According to the University of Michigan, Mondays are bad for heart attacks in general (researchers believes the stress of beginning a new workweek and changes to the sleep-wake cycle are the reason why), but DST makes everything worse.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29461606
DST has also been correlated with an increase in suicide rates, according to an Australian study published in 2008 in Sleep and Biological Rhythms. After examining suicide data from 1971 through 2001, researchers concluded that male suicide rates in particular tend to escalate after DST begins.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1479-8425.2007.00331.x
Personally, my body functions better in a DST world versus a Standard Time world. Getting up when it is dark doesn’t bother me, and I function better when there is more evening light to work with.
I also find that I am getting less and less resilient when the time shifts happen as I age. I am fortunate that my College times Spring Break to the start of DST so I have an entire week to adapt. In the Fall, when my afternoon classes turn into night classes literally overnight, it is just plain brutal on me.
@DrDaveT:
I think the question is something like “Do you speak Antarctican?” And the second part is some sort of spaceship? 😉
But, no, I don’t speak Esperanto. Just English, Spanish.
@Kathy:
But, no, I don’t speak Esperanto.
Before it was possible to learn to speak Klingon (or any of Tolkien’s invented languages), Esperanto scratched that particular itch for a certain flavor of language geek/nerd. As it happened, for me Quenya was much more interesting than Esperanto, once a serious corpus and instructional materials became publicly available — despite the fact that there are real people who speak/write Esperanto all the time, and Quenya is pure fiction. (Not that I ever really learned much Quenya, either…)
All of which is to say: schools and offices could adjust their schedules around the sun.
In practice, almost the same thing as changing the clock, but even more complex (instead of all people changing the clock in the same day, you have to know at each day every school, business, shop, etc., changes the schedule).
@DrDaveT:
I think there must be a reason for people to learn a language. In my case, I learned English because my parents made me take lessons. This coincided with us getting cable, which at the time carried American networks and a movie channel, but most important with my reading of science fiction. So knowing English became very useful
Had my reading interests been Romantic (not Romance) novels, I might have been interested in learning French. Not all science fiction is in English (or so I’m told), but a very vast majority of it is. try to name a non-English speaking, widely read, or merely notable, Sci Fi author other than Jules Verne or Stanisław Lem.
@Kathy:
try to name a non-English speaking, widely read, or merely notable, Sci Fi author other than Jules Verne or Stanisław Lem.
Indeed. Depending on how broadly you define “sci fi”, the only other ones that come to mind are Italo Calvino, Borges, Mikhail Bulgakov, maybe Moebius… Oh, and of course Hergé :-). Those are more fantasy than science fiction, though.
@Jen:
That makes no sense to me at all…
I didn’t say it made sense. I remember it so well because when I heard it, I thought “hmmm…. I wonder why he thinks this is true.” Never made a lick of sense to me, either. If I were going to speculate, my guess is that the theory was that single and older travelers would plan vacations later in the year so as to not encounter as many people traveling with hordes of little ankle biters.
These days, it seems that parents take vacations whenever their employers will grant them and simply pull their children out of school. In any typical day that I teach, I see at least one situation where a student is excused for family vacation.
I won’t say “agree,” but it was the right call to ground the 737 MAX fleet.
Briefly: we don’t know for sure there’s a design, training, or operational issue which makes the MAX line unsafe. We also don’t know for sure there isn’t a design, training, or operational issue which makes the MAX line. So given two fatal accidents with similarities involving MAX aircraft, Boeing should take the time, along with the FAA, NTSB, and other government agencies worldwide, to evaluate the situation.
This has happened before. The Comet, the DC-10, an earlier 737 version, all had design issues which rendered them unsafe. The Comet’s was so bad, that all aircraft would eventually fail.
