Jeb Bush Was a Naughty Boy
So what?
Taegan Goddard passes on a Boston Globe profile on Jeb Bush’s formative days as a student at Andover, an elite preparatory school that indicates he was something of a dullard and a jerk.
These sort of things are pro forma for presidential campaigns and goodness knows there’s lots of irrelevant stories written—certainly including here at OTB—during the silly season. That said: So what?
That is, Bush turns 62 in a few days. He’s spent almost the entirety of his adult life in the public eye, including eight years as governor of one of our largest states. Surely, that’s a better frame of reference on his character and suitability for the presidency than whatever he did or didn’t do as a young teenager away from home for the first time?
File this one under “wanting Obama’s kindergarten records”, Marcus….
Well, it doesn’t say us much about Jeb, that much is true.
However, this story teaches us much about law and order politics, and the war on drugs, and people who weren’t angels in their youth, and the structure of opportunity and privilege in the United States.
He also aspires to be the leader of the party of people who argue that non of those things are real or significant.
Rich kids at prep school for rich kids can be jerks? Hard to imagine.
It’s relevant in that he has presumably learned some kinds of lessons from his youth.
How would the policies he supports now have affected the pot-smoking, underaged drinking bully that he was back then? Has he learned empathy for the people he was a jerk to, and to mildly messed up kids like he was then? Has he expanded that empathy to those outside of prep schools?
When he looks at the escapades of himself, his brother George and his brother Neil, which ones does he think should have resulted in jail? How does he feel about Neil entering beginner’s tennis tournaments just so he can win? What about Neil’s role in the S&L crisis?
Does he recognize the number of breaks he has gotten in life because of family’s wealth and political power? Does he feel a responsibility to those who don’t have it?
These are all good questions, but to ask them in context we need things like the article being scoffed at.
I would probably pay this little mind if it weren’t frighteningly reminiscent of his brother, the results of whose administration are before us.
hmmm, depends. Was he torturing animals or some such behavior?
Well, when he brother was first running for President, there were indicators that he was a dullard and a jerk. After he was elected, we found out it was true.
Those who refuse to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
Does his rap sheet begin at the age of 2? No? Mine does***. I guess I really can’t say anything.
*** really, no sh!t, no sh!nola. My dog almost got shot by the cop when he came to “serve” me too. My old man almost got shot by mother when he finally got home from playing golf.
@anjin-san:
Well, when
he brotherObama was first running for President, there were indicators that he was a dullard and a jerk. After he was elected, we found out it was true.FIFY.
Obama has yet to demonstrate any brainpower greater than low average. And still you blame Bush for everything.
Sorry you’re so slow. What do you plan to do
whenif you grow up?@alanstorm: LOL.
@Mu:
You could shorten that to “kids can be jerks”. There are a lot of reasons I wouldn’t want Jeb Bush as President, but what he did in school and college isn’t on the list. Seriously, it was forty years ago.
@alanstorm:
Still searching for that elusive original thought? Bon chance…
I used to live near the other brother (youngest) that you don’t hear about, Marvin Bush, in Alexandria Va (Fairfax), and knew when his brother the President was visiting due to the helicopters (which I called in as suspicious, as their tail numbers resolved to bush planes in Alaska, seriously, fake tail numbers from the Secret Service?). I was there when the nanny was run over, weird story.
I think the difference between Republicans acting like this vs. the Democrats, is that the R’s take such a self-righteous claim to the moral high ground. Nobody cares if they smoked dope, heck half the country forgives a dog strapped to the roof of the car – but very few appreciate a hypocrite.
alanstorm:
Harvard Law School. Magna cum laude. Blind grading.
Try to muster the minimal “brainpower” required to comprehend what those terms mean, separately and together. If you can’t manage on your own, a good place to get some help is here.
James:
I think what you did when you were a kid matters, because I think character is relatively permanent; most people don’t change deeply. However, nothing in that Globe article looks big to me. Nothing in the same ballpark as leading a group assaulting a gay kid with a weapon while he screams.
John Lauber and Seamus are stories that resonate because they fit in with many other signs (“I’m not concerned about the very poor”) that Mitt has no heart.
The run-up to the 2016 Presidential race, with Jeb now the GOP front-runner and Hillary the most likely Dem brings to mind a political cartoon I saw in late ’67 or early ’68 (if memory serves). A man stands at the edge of a cliff, obviously ready to take the big leap. His wife tearfully implores him not to jump: “Don’t jump, darling! Maybe it won’t be a Johnson-Nixon race.”
Agree that prep school idiocy is irrelevant. Terri Schiavo, however, is totally relevant and actually pretty scarey. In its own small way, the story could be used to define executive overreach and much else, none of it good.
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/01/jeb-bush-terri-schiavo-114730.html#.VM0iQC5d-84
“A dullard and a jerk.” Typical Bush family member.
@Robin Cohen: Look who’s talking
@bandit:
When was the last time a Bush family member did something smart?
Certainly not when the idiot George and his corrupt buddy Cheney invaded Iraq.
If you think the Bush family is smart what does that make you?
@RGardner: That was over off Fort Hunt right? Across the street from the country club?
@jukeboxgrad:
Oh bull hockey. I have a very clear memory of when I and my buddies were 5 or 6 yrs old calling “Ni**er, ni**er…” to the trash men as they picked up the trash. Does that negate all the experiences and learning of the 50 years hence? Am I forever a racist? Even as I have “BlackLivesMatter” pasted on the back of my truck ever since Rosebud MO? And my wife half expects me to get shot over it?
Maybe idiocy is permanent.
@Robin Cohen:
When a guy named Jeb is the smart one, you know you have a problem.
Maybe “kid” is the wrong word. Would you be making the same argument if you had been 16 instead of 6? You were too young to understand the meaning of what you did. That reasoning does not apply to the 18-year old Mitt who committed assault.
I’m not so worried about what Jeb Bush did in high school as I am worried about what he did since then. The whole Terri Schiavo mess is enough to disqualify him, in my opinion–it’s just that all the other candidates on the Republican side are even worse.
(This whole Clinton vs. Bush race we’re undoubtedly going to come down to makes my teeth ache. It’s like when I realized we were getting down to a Reagan vs. Carter race. Ugh.)
I’m afraid it’s futile to pretend that the person you were at 17 is irrelevant to who you’ll be 40 years later. I think I’m a much-improved and certainly much mellowed version of myself at 17. But character tends not to change much, not really.
One of my favorite pictures of myself is me in late teens, sitting with my folks in a posed picture where everyone but me is smiling. And I’ve got my hand between my knees to give the camera the finger. Flash forward 40 years and I’m twenty miles an hour over the speed limit, with an obnoxious fat cigar in my mouth and Rancid belting out, “F-ck You!”
I look at my 17 year-old son now and I know he’ll mellow with time, but will he still be quick and witty and oppositional, unconventional and fundamentally kind? Yeah, I think so. He will not become cruel or intolerant, he just won’t, because that character arc is too extreme.
But hopefully all of us learn over time to sand down the edges on our worst stuff and accentuate our better natures. And I’d be willing to believe that the entitled little sh-t in the story learned some things and mellowed and got control of those aspects of his personality. Until I remember Terri Schiavo. Because Jeb handled that not like a person who had learned some humility but like an arrogant, entitled little sh-t without an ounce of compassion. And his position on drug penalties is more of the same: It’s Okay If You’re Rich.
He’s certainly smarter than his idiot brother, but as for his character, he’s got a lot left to show me.
Let’s play Guess Who Said It:
@jukeboxgrad:
Every now and then he says something very sensible.If we could somehow subtract his loon of a father from the scene it might help me deal with the son.
(See how I avoided spoilers there?)
Another quote:
Also:
At some point his opponents will dig these up (which has happened already, but not in a big way), and how he responds will be an interesting drama.
I kind of figured you would.
@anjin-san: FYI, Jeb stands for John Ellis Bush. The nickname suits him better than his full name.
@alanstorm: Love him or Hate him, graduating from Harvard Law School certainly shows brainpower way above the average
Not just graduating; graduating with high honors.
The next thing they yell is always ‘BUT AFFIRMATIVE ACTION’ so it’s important to point out that HLS uses blind grading. Obama has admitted that AA might have helped him get in, but it doesn’t explain why he got top grades.
1. Anyone who doubts the role of race in Obama criticism should think about how little time and energy Bill Clinton critics spent calling him stupid.
2. What you do in the past usually matters less than how you understand and can deal with that behavior now. That’s why the drug issue should have legs.
Mike
This matters in that he enjoyed a lot of marijuana back in his youth, but his family smoothed over any trouble that he might have gotten into over it.
It matters that 40 years later, he opposed medical marijuana ballot initiatives and was happy to continue our futile War on Drugs.
It matters because as a society we send a lot of kids to jail over pot arrests, arrests that never would have happened if those kids had the right daddy.
I disagree with Rand Paul on a lot of things, but he’s absolutely right to call out Jeb on this.
@Tony W: I think the difference between Republicans acting like this vs. the Democrats, is that the R’s take such a self-righteous claim to the moral high ground. Nobody cares if they smoked dope, heck half the country forgives a dog strapped to the roof of the car – but very few appreciate a hypocrite.
Sounds like the argument I’ve often made — Democrats don’t pretend to not be scumbags, so when they are revealed as such, it shouldn’t be a surprise.
Remember, folks: what 18-year-old Jeb Bush did in 1971 is totally relevant, but what 18-year-old Barack Obama and his “choom gang” did in 1979 is off-topic. And it’s racist to note that he was President of the Harvard Law Review but never in his entire law school career wrote an article for it; that he spent years as a constitutional law professor without ever writing a single academic paper; his total literary output was two books about himself; and at no point between 1992 and 2008 did he demonstrate his incredible intellect and brainpower in any moreasurable or notable fashion.
Oh, and his long friendships and partnerships with such disreputable characters as William Ayers and Jeremiah Wright and slumlord Valerie Jarriett are also irrelevant, and anyone who brings them up is just straight-up racist.
@humanoid.panda:
Exactly-
What mistakes an individual did 40 odd years ago are probably irrelevant.
But the story of Jeb’s world reveals the world of aristocratic privilege and depraved indifference of the ruling elite for the rest of America, a condition that has only gotten worse over the past 40 years, not better.
Jenos:
It’s so “off-topic” it’s been mentioned by pretty much every major news outlet. Example.
Yet another exceptionally popular right-wing lie. Link. And I’m pretty sure I have already told you so.
Tell me the number of ‘academic papers’ Cruz ever wrote on his own.
Gordon “go for a head shot” Liddy is pals with McCain. So that means McCain is palling around with terrorists, right?
There must be some other reason why the McCain/Liddy bromance doesn’t matter to you.
A Marine who has probably taken more risks for this country than you have:
@jukeboxgrad: Whoops, my bad, he wrote one. That makes all the difference in the world. One article as a student, none as a professor. So much for “publish or perish.”
Ayers is an unrepentant domestic terrorist who planned to blow up an enlisted men’s dance as a protest against the Viet Nam war, and was involved in several other bombings, who only walked because the prosecutors screwed up. He himself says he was “guilty as hell.”
McCain? How’d he get into this thread?
Wright had a fine military career. So did Timothy McVeigh.
But nice to see you’re still running true to form. Focus on one trivial detail, distract from others, ignore the rest.
Now tell me how many Cruz wrote when he was at HLS.
I realize you’re surprised to discover that not every cliché is true.
I realize you think palling around “disreputable characters” is only a problem when the other side does it.
McVeigh? How’d he get into this thread?
You making a bunch of claims divorced from reality is not a “trivial detail.”
On my…who could of guessed that those who smoke pot and/or those who don’t trash those who smoke pot are “scumbags”…by the way, a real scumbag is someone who smoked pot in his youth and got out of any trouble through money and family connections while years later supporting the disastrous failed War on Drugs…
@Jenos Idanian #13:
McVeigh was a mass murderer/terrorist. Wright is a guy who said some stuff you don’t like. Perhaps you could explain what one man has to do with the other.
@anjin-san: Fine, Liddy also had a distinguished military career. Also, Liddy was also a decorated FBI agent and a county prosecutor.
And George W. Bush, widely derided as an idiot, holds an MBA from Harvard and racked up hundreds of hours in the single-seater F-102 Delta Dagger, a supersonic, single-seat interceptor. As BIll Whittle spells out, it is impossible to be an idiot and master that plane. Family connections and money and buddies will not save you from a widow-maker like that plane was.
Oh, and here’s a quote from Liddy about that “shoot them in the head” statement:
But Obama’s smart, because he’s got the right credentials. He checked off the right boxes. And what did he do with his stunning intellect? Got elected to the legislature where he voted “present” a lot, did some college teaching where he made sure his students learned the Alinsky methods of political activism, then ran for the US Senate, where he didn’t do anything exceptionally noteworthy.
Oh, and he wrote two books — about himself. Well, you’re supposed to write what you know, after all…
@Jenos Idanian #13:
I have not mentioned Liddy, Bush, Obama, or Alinsky on this thread, so I fear you have wasted a perfectly good rant. What on earth does Alinsky have to do with this thread? Please try to stay on topic.
I am simply pointing out that you can’t use a piece of dung like McVeigh to smear Wright, simply because they both served in the military. If we accept your “logic” the military records of Omar Bradley and Audie Murphy can’t be used to show evidence of character, because, because… McVeigh. It’s a lame argument, and it’s disrespectful to everyone who ever served with distinction or simply carried out their duty without fail. It’s kinda sad that you would use the military at all in your eagerness to trash Wright.
It’s also worth noting that its’ quite clear you do not give a rat’s ass about Wright, except that you think you can use him as a club to bash Obama with. The brighter kids on the right figured out that was a losing argument many years ago, yet you cling to it like a barnacle…
@anjin-san: I don’t have to trash Wright; he does that just fine on his own. But you cited his military career as some kind of verification of his character. If that’s the standard you chose to use, then why doesn’t it apply to John McCain, G. Gordon Liddy, Timothy McVeigh, Charlie Rangel, or any of a host of others I could cite who had honorable military careers?
Jenos:
Protecting the skies of Texas from a Mexican invasion. That “single-seater” was a safer place than Vietnam.
Whittle is a transparent liar. He is taken seriously only by fools.
Except that Liddy made these statements many times, and you cannot show that he “was talking about” what he later said he “was talking about.” Link, link.
Another fan of Alinsky: William F Buckley. Link, link. Funny how your NR article forgot to mention that.
Conservatives don’t claim that McCain’s “military career [is] some kind of verification of his character?”
@Jenos Idanian #13:
How does he do that? Please be specific.
Umm. Nope. You sound very confused.
@anjin-san: Why do I keep making the same mistake, thinking that you actually say things worth responding to? I should put a Post-It on my monitor to remind me of that…
@Jenos Idanian #13:
Trying to find a face-saving way to bail at this point is probably not a bad move on your part.
@Jenos Idanian #13:
You know, I can’t help but note that the only people who ever talk about Alinsky are conservatives; seriously take a look at the threads over the years and see who brings him up – its not even close to even. Now I’m an engineer and never took a poli-sci class, so I’ve no idea who this Alinsky is, but I’m convinced he’s ultimately a conservative, since it seems 90% of his fans are conservatives.
@anjin-san: Tell you what: why don’t you elaborate on how Officer Wilson was “unmarked” after his encounter with Brown, and I’ll pretend that you’re actually making sense. Sound fair?
The Alinsky thing is strange. I’ve read a lot of left wing literature over the years, and I never even heard of Alinsky until the 2008 presidential campaign. Now so far as I can tell, Saul Alinsky is number one in the conservative pantheon of iconic left wing villians, worse then Stalin, Mao or even Uncle Karl himself. How did that happen?
You know conservatives are running out of things to attack Obama for if they are redoing the near misses of 2008.
Wright, Ayers and now Alinsky. Hey Jenos, nobody gave a d@mn about those guys the first time around. They still don’t.
Maybe not but those things certainly saved him from having to go to Vietnam…
Jenos now:
Jenos before:
Next up, the Jenos who is very sensitive about people allegedly changing the subject will have a conversation with the Jenos who is changing the subject.
@george: Think of it as a parallel to “southern strategy” and “racism” and “dog-whistles.”
I urge you to read Alinsky’s Rules. They aren’t necessarily for the Left; they work well for any out-of-power faction looking to bring down the status quo — as long as you’re not too worried about collateral damage.
I guess that explains why William F Buckley was a fan. Link, link.
@Jenos Idanian #13:
You should. In fact, no one here at OTB is worthy to appreciate the profundity of your thought and your rapier wit. You demean yourself by commenting here.
Could not agree more. Jenos, you are pretty much a combination of Muhammad Ali, Joe Montana, Russell Kirk, and Batman. Don’t waste even another minute of your time here – the world needs you!
@jukeboxgrad: Wow, juke links to… his own comments elsewhere. Color me gobsmacked.
And in this context, it seems that I agree with Buckley that Alinsky was, in his way, brilliant. As I said, his tactics are intended for the underdog, and I find myself using them here on occasion. On the last Ferguson thread, I hung anjin on Rule 4. Rule 5 is fun for Cliffy, wr, and annie.
On the other hand, I find Rule 12 contemptible, and won’t use it. But it’s a go-to tactic for several here. annie lives by it.
I link to my own comments when they contain links to evidence. I realize you don’t understand the meaning of that word. I also realize you don’t understand how the internet works.
Jenos earlier:
Jenos later:
If using “Alinsky tactics” is wrong, then why do you use them? And if using “Alinsky tactics” is not wrong, then why did you mention that Obama allegedly taught them?
Conservatives never fail to impress with their deep self-awareness.
@Jenos Idanian #13:
Off-topic, but what’s the GOP been up to lately?
I see several folks have mentioned terry Schiavo already, so I suppose I’m just joining the chorus. But I think Michael Schiavo’s description sums it up perfectly: “A vindictive, untrustworthy coward’ His behavior during and after that fiasco should have gotten him impeached.
We really don’t need another stubborn, ideologically entrenched dullard from the Bush family throwing our country back in the ditch we’ve only just climbed out of
@jukeboxgrad: For someone who puts on such intellectual pretensions, you don’t do nuance very well, do you? Do you really see things in black and white, or do you simply project that on others so you can convince yourself of your superiority?
There is no contradiction between these two statements.
1) Alinsky’s tactics can be remarkably effective at achieving one’s goals.
2) Some of Alinsky’s tactics are reprehensible.
Further, Obama was teaching Alinsky’s Rules in the context of explaining how to influence Chicago’s city government. And here’s Alinsky describing the role of a “community organizer” like Obama was:
That’s from the prologue.
But back to the topic at hand. I’m still curious why it’s not only fair, but necessary and good to subject Republicans to this level of scrutiny, of delving into their childhood (we’re talking about Jeb Bush being younger than Michael Brown was), but it’s bad/wrong/not acceptable to subject Democrats to the same level of scrutiny.
Barack Obama’s parents’ wedding was enabled by the march in Birmingham?
Hillary Clinton was named after Sir Edmund Hilary?
Myths passed off as fact. And when exposed as lies (impossibilities), “no big deal.”
It’s remarkable how successfully Jenos has completely derailed this thread into a rehash of “Obama loves Wright, Alinsky and Ayers” from his very first comments
It’s sad how many otherwise smart commenters seem to have merrily gone along with this
So, Jenos, do you have anything to say about the actual topic at hand? Because so far all you’ve given us is your version of Phil Hartman’s SNL Frankenstein character:
“OBAMA BAD”
@Ken: You mean, like that last comment of mine, where I beat you going back on topic by almost half an hour?
Here, in case you missed it:
Back to you, Ken…
@Jenos Idanian #13:
Yes Ken, how could you have missed it when Jenos finally went on topic? After all, Michael Brown is totally relevant to this thread. Try and keep up 🙂
Jenos:
Just “some?” Really? Now you tell us. Before you said this:
That statement, like most statements by conservatives mentioning the word “Alinsky,” implies that all of “Alinsky’s tactics are reprehensible.” Not just “some.” But now that you’ve backpedaled to this new position, show your evidence that “Alinsky’s tactics” supposedly taught by Obama were those in the category of supposedly “reprehensible.” Of course you have no such evidence. You can’t even prove your original claim about “college teaching” of “Alinsky methods.”
Why do you make accusations you can’t support with evidence?
Says who? Another accusation you will never support with evidence. Conservatives are such whiny victims.
Who said that? Conservatives love phony quotes.
Jenos follows the old aphorism, “If you have the facts on your side, pound the facts. If you have the law on your side, pound the law. If you have neither on your side, pound the table.”
He pounds the table. Never have so many empty words been produced from such an empty head. It’s kind of like the miracle of the loaves and fishes. Or to get Shakespearian, His is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury and signifying nothing.