ABC7 New York

Mamdani Uses October 7 Anniversary to Attack Israel

59

Comments

NYT (“For Mamdani, Oct. 7 Anniversary Sets Off Anger and Bitterness“):

It seemed inevitable that the third anniversary of the Oct. 7 attacks would touch off tensions for Zohran Mamdani, a longtime critic of Israel and the first Muslim mayor of a city that is 12 percent Jewish.

But Wednesday erupted with such anger and emotion that it seemed to overwhelm any efforts to solemnly mark the deadliest day in Israeli history.

Mr. Mamdani began the day shortly before 9 a.m. by issuing a statement that was meant to acknowledge the Oct. 7 anniversary but almost immediately caused an uproar among some Jewish leaders, who said it minimized Israeli suffering in the Hamas-led attacks.

It took a turn roughly 12 hours later at a vigil organized by Israeli peace activists in Union Square in Manhattan, where pro-Palestinian demonstrators disrupted the event to jeer the mayor. He appeared ashen and upset as he left, without addressing the crowd, flanked by his security detail as he walked to a waiting S.U.V. at 8:50 p.m.

[…]

The mayor, who is known for his broad, effervescent smile, seemed especially stung by the opposition to him expressed by the pro-Palestinian crowd in Union Square, given his consistent support of their cause.

During the vigil, he stared stone-faced, and at times looked crestfallen, as the activists chanted in support of Hamas, called for the deaths of Israeli soldiers and denounced him as a “traitor,” many citing his meetings with President Trump or his efforts to build ties with Jewish leaders.

“Zohran, you coward!” someone yelled from the crowd, which numbered in the hundreds. Others yelled, “Zohran is a sellout!”

Mr. Mamdani’s day seemed carefully planned to avoid such spectacle. He spurned a politically freighted invitation from Israel’s consul general in New York to watch a 47-minute film showing footage from the Oct. 7 attacks, choosing instead to join the evening vigil hosted by Israelis for Peace, which was attended by many of his progressive Jewish allies. He then held a private meeting with Palestinian New Yorkers at Hind’s Hall, a Palestinian restaurant on the Upper West Side, to end the day.

But it was clear by midday that his statement had caused deep anger among many Jewish New Yorkers.

Unlike the statements issued by the governor and other elected leaders, Mr. Mamdani’s remarks focused far more on the suffering of Palestinians than on the killings of roughly 1,200 people and the abduction of 251 hostages in Israel on Oct. 7, 2023. His words, which startled even some of his allies, acknowledged that the day was “profoundly painful for so many New Yorkers” but then pivoted to a denunciation of Israel for what he called the “devastating, ongoing genocide” in Gaza.

Israel’s campaign in Gaza has killed more than 73,000 Palestinians, according to a count from Gaza’s health ministry, which does not distinguish between civilians and combatants but which includes thousands of children.

“The suffering did not begin nor end that day,” Mr. Mamdani said, referring to Oct. 7, adding: “That suffering has intensified with every Israeli bomb dropped on ambulances waiting outside hospitals, every drone strike targeting a residential building or journalist, and every shipment of food aid turned away at a border crossing.”

He did not provide a similarly detailed account of the Oct. 7 attacks.

Rabbi Ammiel Hirsch, the president of the New York Board of Rabbis, said Mr. Mamdani’s statement was “morally perverse” and “like sticking a knife into the pain of the Jewish community in New York and in America.”

POLITICO (“Mamdani draws bipartisan backlash for criticizing Israel on Oct. 7 anniversary“) adds:

Mayor Zohran Mamdani’s statement marking the third anniversary of Hamas’ Oct. 7 attack on Israel sparked outrage Wednesday — and racked up millions of views on social media.

Mamdani is a longtime critic of Israel and has been especially fervent in decrying its treatment of Palestinians since the 2023 attack. But his anniversary statement garnered particularly pointed pushback because of its timing, with critics arguing Wednesday was the kind of occasion when elected leaders should avoid divisiveness.

[…]

The statement had garnered more than 11 million views on X by Wednesday evening — and the backlash was broad, sparking condemnations even from some fellow Democrats who hold differing views on the conflict.

Rep. Dan Goldman, a New York Democrat, called it “egregious and insulting.”

“There are 364 days of the year to focus on that. This is a day that should just be focused on what was by all agreement a horrific terror attack,” Goldman, who’s Jewish, told POLITICO. “What the mayor’s statement did today was to blame Israelis for the attack that they suffered three years ago. Regardless of what you actually think of the conflict and what’s happened either since or before, there’s no excuse for victim blaming.”

[…]

Mamdani’s office declined to comment on the wave of pushback. He denies harboring any antisemitic views and has pointed to his decision to boost city funding for hate crimes prevention programs in arguing he’s committed to stamping out anti-Jewish attacks.

Prominent Jewish groups in New York City, though, have cycled through near constant outrage at the mayor’s criticism of Israel, arguing it has inflamed antisemitism and hate crimes against local Jews.

[…]

Mamdani’s rhetoric stood out from more moderate Democratic elected officials in New York like Gov. Kathy Hochul, who raised an Israeli flag above the State Capitol in Albany and issued a statement focused only on remembering the victims of the Oct. 7 attack.

Here’s the full statement, which was posted to the NYC mayor’s website and its X page:

This day is profoundly painful for so many New Yorkers. It marks three years since the horrific war crimes of October 7. On that day, Hamas killed more than 1,100 Israelis and abducted 251 others. We grieve alongside our many friends and neighbors who still carry that unthinkable loss.

The suffering did not begin nor end that day. It instead continued through the Israeli government’s devastating, ongoing genocide in Gaza, in which it has killed more than 74,000 Palestinians—including more than 21,000 children. Even since the so-called ceasefire, more than 1,400 Palestinians have been killed. That suffering has intensified with every Israeli bomb dropped on ambulances waiting outside hospitals, every drone strike targeting a residential building or journalist, and every shipment of food aid turned away at a border crossing. Many New Yorkers are reckoning with this unbearable grief, and we mourn alongside them – all while knowing that our tax dollars fund these war crimes.

Three years later, we must refuse to accept a world in which occupation and apartheid continue, where war crimes are met with impunity, and our federal government continues its complicity with every arms shipment.

To honor the dead, we must fight for a world in which every person can live with freedom, safety, and dignity.

My reaction is much the same as Goldman’s. There’s nothing here that Mamdani hasn’t said multiple times before, including during his campaign for mayor. But the timing is outrageous.

On the third anniversary of the deadliest day for the Jewish people since the Holocaust, Mamdani devotes a single sentence to the slaughter by way of throat-clearing before launching an attack on them. Said attack is many times the length of the faux sympathy for the Jewish victims.

Looking through his social feeds, he loves to celebrate even relatively niche events. Just this past week,

  • “Last night, the People’s House was filled with joy and abundance as we celebrated the Mid-Autumn Festival under the glow of the Harvest Moon. From Chinese mooncakes to Korean songpyeon and Vietnamese lanterns, East and South Asian communities bring the depth, breadth, and richness of their cultures to our city every day.”
  • “On Sunday, I was honored to visit Our Lady Salam, the first Arabic-speaking Lutheran parish on Staten Island. Its congregants hail from as close as Hylan Boulevard to as far as Palestine, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Jordan, and Egypt — yet have planted roots in our city. Many carry the weight of war and genocide daily.”
  • “Today, on World Teachers’ Day, we celebrate the teachers, educators, and child care providers who care for the future of New York and invest in our children every day. New York City doesn’t move without our teachers. We are grateful for their work today and every day.”
  • “New York City, wetin dey sup? It was a joy to commemorate 34 years of the Nigerian Day Parade alongside the many Nigerian New Yorkers who fill our city with life. From the entrepreneurs whose businesses strengthen our neighborhoods, to the sounds of Afrobeats pouring out of graduation parties in Southeast Queens, and the aroma of Agege bread calling out to passersby in Brooklyn — the impact of Nigerian New Yorkers is felt across the five boroughs.”
  • “Hispanic New Yorkers give our city its flavor, sound, and style. Where else can you savor the aromas of chaufa and champurrado on the same block? Hear Mixtec and Quechua on the same train? See a Dominican barber give a Venezuelan kid a fade, a life lesson, and a new accent in one visit? At last night’s Hispanic Heritage celebration at Gracie Mansion, we celebrated it all.”
  • “Every year, the @fdny honors its fallen with an incredible service at the Firemen’s Memorial on Riverside Drive. It was an immense honor to be there and remember those who devoted their lives to protecting our city, the families who make enormous, unseen sacrifices, and every member of New York’s Bravest who do the extraordinary to protect our city every single day.”

The last of these came on the same day he issued the statement regarding October 7.

Notice that, in none of the other cases, did he introduce negatives to take away from the occasion. He didn’t diminish the Mid-Autumn Festival, Nigerian Day, or Hispanic Heritage Day by talking about East Asian, Nigerian, and Hispanic organized crime syndicates. Or corruption and systemic racism within FDNY. Because that would have been wildly inappropriate in the moment. There are 364 other days of the year to make policy arguments.

The obvious answer is antisemitism, but I don’t think that’s it either. Indeed, among the many commemorations Mamdani posted last week was this:

  • “Last week, I was invited into the homes of Jewish New Yorkers across the city to celebrate the holiday of Sukkot. It was a pleasure to be welcomed into these sukkot, in a beautiful tradition rooted in gratitude, gathering, humility and community.”

But he sure as hell appears to be tone deaf regarding October 7.

59 responses to “Mamdani Uses October 7 Anniversary to Attack Israel”

  1. Mamdani Uses October 7 Anniversary to Attack Israel

    If speaking the truth is “attacking” someone/something, then the problem lies not with the speaker.

    What’s next: “Zelenskyy attacks Putin over attacks on hospitals and residential buildings”?

    So uncivil…

    7
    1. What is the Oct. 7 equivalent in this analogy? The Russian invasion of Ukraine wasn’t preceded by a Ukrainian surprise attack murdering 1,000 mostly-civilian Russian men, women, and children at a festival.

      2
      1. The point I was making is that the word “attacking” (with all its negative connotations) is misplaced when the “attacker” is merely accurately describing things.

        And yes, we all know that Hamas committed war crimes as well during its October 7 attacks and that, given the chance, it would have genocided even harder than Israel proceeded to do.

        But that doesn’t mean that it wouldn’t be absurd if I claimed that you were attacking me if all you did was providing an accurate description of my actions.

        3
  2. Michael Reynolds Avatar
    Michael Reynolds

    You know the quickest, surest way to end the ‘genocide’ in Gaza? Hamas can surrender and turn in their weapons.

    And no one ever suggests that. Why?

    2
    1. Using civilian deaths to compel a government or non-state actor to do something is a pretty serious war crime.

      Your “solution” amounts to rewarding criminal behavior of the vilest sort.

      1
      1. Michael Reynolds Avatar
        Michael Reynolds

        Blinded by ideology nonsense.

        You want to stop the killing? That’s the way. You care about the children? This would save them all. But it’s a way that doesn’t give Palestinians (or their amen corner) their preferred outcome: the extermination of the Jews.

        Hamas started this on October 7th. The analogy to Ukraine would be the surrender and withdrawal of the Russians.

        Israel has military forces capable of killing every last person in Gaza inside of a week. It has killed fewer people than have been replaced by births. But you insist on calling it a genocide. It’s a horror, a crime against humanity, but anti-semites desperately wanted to attach the word genocide. And we both know why.

        Japan attacked Pearl Harbor and killed 2400 Americans. Our response killed 100,000 civilians in Tokyo alone, and hundreds of thousands more in Hiroshima, Nagasaki and every other targetable Japanese city. I assume that was super-genocide?

        2
        1. but anti-semites desperately wanted to attach the word genocide. And we both know why.

          Your “it’s not genocide” rants are tiresome. And accusing people who use the word “genocide” in the context of the current Israel-Palestina conflict of anti-semitism is beyond tiresome. It’s vile.

          Let me remind you of the legal definition of genocide as recorded in the 1948 Genocide Convention:

          In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

          (a) Killing members of the group;

          (b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;

          (c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;

          (d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;

          (e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

          (a), (b), and (c) are all indisputably happening.

          Looking at the words and actions of the current Israeli there is also clear intent to simply get rid of as many Palestinians as possible.

          So, there we are.

          Calling people who want to use the proper legal definition for things – after all, the Genocide Convention was ratified by, among others, both Israel and the US – anti-semites is (at best) petulant and childish.

          We all know what’s going on right now does not not compare to the Holocaust (yet). But that does not mean it’s not genocide. Murder by a clean shot in the head is still murder even it’s less bad than a hacksaw to the neck.

          Making false accusations of anti-semitism is shitty behavior. And if you had any balls you would apologize.

          (I have noticed, by the way, that whenever someone brings up the Genocide Convention – including its definition of genocide – as well as the fact that this particular definition has been codified into law in both Israel and US – it’s always crickets from you. Curious.)

          4
    2. dazedandconfused Avatar
      dazedandconfused

      I wonder why the vaunted IDF has had a fairly small band of terrorists cornered in a small area for nearly three years but won’t finish the job either. Perhaps because if the war was over an objective of de-populating and annexing Gaza could not be justified if they did?

    3. I thought releasing all the hostages would end all hostilities according to you just a few short months ago.
      I know, your favorite entho-religious apartheid state can do no wrong, only be wronged.

    4. You know every war could end that way. Most even end that way, after several years of slaughter.

      If only Sir Winston had kindly asked Elon to surrender and give up his weapons.

      Oh, BTW, it is genocide.

  3. The problem is that “attack” has lost all meaning in this instance. Say that class of citizenship shouldn’t be based on Religion and everyone under the control of a government should have equal rights regardless? Then you are anti-Semitic. Say that Hamas is an evil twisted perversion who kills their own and views the misery of the people under their control as a tactical advantage? Then you are spitting in the eye of the oppressed.

    As drj said above, everything Mondami said was true. The even bigger truth? Israel is an apartheid state that is engaged in violent ethnic cleansing. Hamas is a violent quasi-state that would do the same and worse if they could. There is no upside in the US allying with either of these regimes. We should withdraw as much as feasible, and only return when there are legitimate leaders who will do the hard work of building a just peace

    5
    1. Michael Reynolds Avatar
      Michael Reynolds

      Israel is an apartheid state that is engaged in violent ethnic cleansing. Hamas is a violent quasi-state that would do the same and worse if they could.

      Bingo. That is an accurate statement. But neither side, as you note, is content to rely on the truth. Israel must either be the shining city on the hill, or Hamas is just a bunch of patriots who are sometimes overly-enthusiastic.

      This is why I’d never make it in Hollywood or academia: I don’t do hyperbole, I do accuracy.

      3
  4. He should have invited Iran to take out Dallas and Baton Rouge. then we’d be all arguing about what he meant.

    2
    1. …and Baton Rouge.

      Assuming Iran would want to do maximum economic damage with minimum civilian deaths, and had a single small nuke, the Old River Control Structure 45 miles upstream from Baton Rouge would be a very good candidate target.

    2. LOL.

      It’s interesting that in the case of Mamdani, James is a mind-reader and can see that Mamdani’s sympathy for Israel is “faux”.

      However, in the case of Trump, who has a decade of history in politics as a liar and provacateur, it’s impossible for James to discern Trump’s real meaning when he mentions Iran “hitting” San Diego and LA. Yet, here we have Trump doubling down on those remarks, making the meaning crystal clear:

      “Trump: You wanna see trauma? I said it the other day. Let them hit a missile into San Diego or Los Angeles.”
      https://bsky.app/profile/factpostnews.bsky.social/post/3mxd6uqhqnr2a

      3
      1. Here he is again, saying it even more clearly:
        “Trump: I say it all the time, let’s see what would happen if Iran ever did anything to Los Angeles or San Diego. I’m talking about through missiles. You want to see problems, let them hit Los Angeles or San Diego”

        https://bsky.app/profile/headquartersnews.bsky.social/post/3mxeu5arj3l2a

    3. dazedandconfused Avatar
      dazedandconfused

      The thought hit me that if it had been said by someone with a well-functioning brain that I would suspect a well-done psy-op. Focusing the argument on what part of the US Iran would nuke skips right over the arguments about whether or not Iran seeks a nuke for self defense very well indeed. “They seek it to destroy something in the US, the only question is what they will strike!”

      When we think of Iran we must to imagine them to be madmen hell-bent on committing murder-suicide. They aren’t? Well, with so “many people saying that” the burden of proof is on you!

  5. A month ago, I had a conversation with a friend about pro-Israel people we know and how we both feel this nurturing and irrational need to continue to be friends with them and not freeze them out due to their insanity and racism. That said, they’re all crazy. So though Mamdani’s statement seemed pretty banal, the reaction along the lines of ‘we need a safe space once per year where Palestinians are insects and not human beings’ is what one expects if you’re around people who have been completely brainwashed.

    Everyone says that Hamas made a mistake in launching these attacks. Maybe so. But Israel seems to be on the verge of something bad which, in ten to twenty years, might be its end. 10/7 has become like 9/11, an unimaginable thing which, once it took place, needed to occur; unlike 9/11, Israel is an actual colonial power in their own country. To avert the endgame which led to 10/7 required pressure, but that didn’t happen. Biden’s ghouls are coming out of the woodwork to defend how they attempted to reign in Israel afterwards, as if they had not pushed for continuing Trump’s policies with Saudi Arabia and Israel rather than trying, somehow, to back Israel away from the precipice. They don’t even bother trying to defend that…The propaganda says that Israel is strong and can do anything, and doesn’t care what anyone thinks; but that’s just weird narcissistic blowback based on endless failure. The Israel military is too weak to even defeat Hamas in action, let alone enforce the country’s will anywhere else. The internal politics of the country is all crazy right-wing nonsense; even the liberals are shocked to the core on a daily basis when they find no one else agrees with their Palestinian equals terrorist logic. Overall, there are too many Palestinians to cleanse, ethnically, and they can’t force other countries to take them in, because they don’t have the power. Two states will never happen, because Israel will never do it (try to imagine any deal being followed through by the Israelis without backtracking). It just seems that the end will be civil war in Israel, followed by anyone with dual citizenship getting the hell out of there, and back, I guess, to Cleveland.

    3
    1. Michael Reynolds Avatar
      Michael Reynolds

      The Israel military is too weak to even defeat Hamas in action

      No, you ninny, they can’t destroy Hamas because Hamas hides behind women and children and Israelis are not (yet) willing to do what you have already convicted them of. Jesus Christ, Israel can exterminate everyone in Gaza without breaking a sweat.

      Israel operates key municipal water lines (via the Mekorot water company) into Gaza. While Israel previously supplied around 49 million liters a day before October 2023, recent reports indicate volumes have fluctuated significantly or run roughly 40% below contracted amounts due to ongoing infrastructure damage, regional leaks, and disruptions (such as marine algae blooms affecting regional treatment.

      Israel can turn off the water, the power, the medicine and the food right now, today. Right? They could flick a switch and kill everyone in Gaza. Correct or not? So, why don’t you explain why they don’t do that given your belief that they’re carrying out genocide? Can you name other genocides where the genociders supplied meds to the genocidees?

      You’re a perfect example of the clueless western liberal who knows 10% of the story, lacks the imagination to see just how fucking bad things could be, and yet feels free to pontificate and denounce and apparently shun Jews because they disagree with you.

      Do you understand that if the US cuts Israel off it will also be cutting off Egypt and Jordan? Can you work through the likely outcome of that? Guess what: it ain’t peace in our time. And it’s not the extermination of the Jews. It’s three countries that all hate Palestinians, and all have plenty of tanks.

      1
      1. Well, my friend who I was having this conversation with is Jewish. Do you have friends? Do you have conversations with other people? If not, it might be difficult for you to understand; but talking to someone who starts yelling each time they see the mayor of your city (or his wife) appear on television can be trying. Likewise, when they’re refer to Jewish people who support the Palestinians as capos: also annoying. Same goes with having to listen to theories about the NYPD covering up Hamas infiltrating the city’s tunnels ahead of Israel day. (Okay, that one was slightly funny.)

        Point being: it’s very trying to deal with people who have lost their minds about Israel.

        Re: Hamas hiding behind women and children…yes, the people ID’d as Hamas via Israel’s can’t miss AI-tracking system are often found ‘hiding’ after a day’s work at the office or a bakery at what terrorists refer to as ‘dinner’ and in a military stronghold deemed by the evil as a ‘home’.

        Go back to your endless WW2 docs and the same witless op-ed for boomer Amerifats. They’ll tell you how smart and important you are; which is all that matters…

  6. Charley in Cleveland Avatar
    Charley in Cleveland

    Can’t one bemoan the actions of Israel’s government without being declared anti-Semitic? Words have meaning…or at least they used to.

    the online Oxford Reference defines “anti-Semitism” as: “Hostility towards and discrimination against Jewish people, although there are other Semitic peoples, notably the Arabs, anti‐Semitism is only used to refer to prejudice against Jewish people.”

    Without the labels….Netanyahu is an asshole, as are the planners and those who carried out 10/7, and may they all rot in hell. The Israeli people, and the people who live in Gaza and the West Bank, deserve better than to be slandered (or killed) for actions they didn’t undertake or endorse. Let there be peace, dammit!

    2
    1. You should read more about the history of the word anti-Semitism. It was coined in the 19th century by European racialists who wanted a more sophisticated-sounding alternative to the word “Jew-hatred” (or the German Judenhass). It has never meant anything but bigotry against Jews. It would not make sense to define it as bigotry against all Semitic peoples, for the simple reason that no such category of bigotry exists–one that thinks of Jews and Arabs as one single ethnic or racial entity to disparage.

      Now, it should be mentioned that “Semitic” isn’t a real thing. Like the word “Caucasian,” it’s a word that’s little more than a relic of long-discredited 19th-century race science, but which has remained in the language mostly through the term “anti-Semitic” as well as “Semitic languages” (and occasional references to “Semitic features,” though that’s iffy as it tends to refer to features that are common also among non-Semitic Mediterranean groups such as Italians). There is no Semitic race or Semitic ethnicity, and, as mentioned, there is certainly no category of bigotry targeted at Semitic people broadly. Maybe you can argue that we therefore should stop using the term “anti-Semitic” altogether and just say “anti-Jewish.” Shouldn’t we scrub language of all references to outdated beliefs, from the bottom of our hearts?

      Let’s be real. Bringing up that “Arabs are also Semites” whenever the topic of anti-Semitism in the context of Israel-Palestine arises is just playing word games. All it does is confuse issues, especially when we’re talking about anti-Semitism coming from Arabs–and, in fairness, anti-Arab bigotry coming from Jews. Both are bad, but they’re not the same thing. It’s like someone denying they’re racist against Latinos on the grounds that they like French people.

      1. Yeah, I mean any cursory familiarity with 19th-early 20th century European/Russian literature will show you the nature of what was thought of Jewish people; and mostly, these writers were not amongst the feverish. For example, Proust’s description of the Bloch family is incredibly anti-Semitic; and he supported Dreyfus (and was also partly Jewish by birth). Normal Christians thought of Jewish people as part of a race with distinct scientific characteristics observable in nature.

  7. Michael Reynolds Avatar
    Michael Reynolds

    This is what Americans and Europeans don’t understand: the ME is not America or Europe.

    If it comes down to a choice between Israel and Palestine, Egypt, Jordan and yes, Saudi Arabia, would be happier to see a Middle East without Palestinians. Israel has weapons tech and hard power. In a ME without the US, who is going to stop Iranian missiles aimed at Riyadh or Dubai or their oil fields? Answer: not Hamas. Not even Turkey or Pakistan.

    Which would the Jordanians rather have on their border, Greater Israel or a Palestinian state? Same question for Egypt. The leaders of Israel, Jordan and Egypt are all hard boys devoid of sentimentality. Try making a case for why the Hashemites would prefer a Palestinian state, or more realistically, a Palestinian civil war on their border, over a bunch of settlers?

    1
    1. “… who is going to stop Iranian missiles aimed at Riyadh or Dubai or their oil fields”
      Probably not Israel either.
      It simply does not have the technology/firepower to do so unless it subsumed the economies of the GCC to the Isreali industrial base.
      And the Saudis have made it quite plain their willingness to cooperate with Israel has limits.

      Namely, that Israel must stop screwing with the West Bank, and leave open a path to some sort of negotiated outcome.

      The al-Saud are monarchic rulers; but they can’t afford to ignore consensus popular sentiment if they wish to remain so.
      Same applies to the military in Egypt, and the Hashemite monarchy in Jordan.
      They have limits to how far they will go in simple power calculation versus popular opinion.
      This is hardly unusual in autocracies.

  8. Sigh.

    I don’t think Mamdani was “attacking” Israel. I think he was treating Israel different than other groups because of (1) his long-standing attachment to Palestinians and (2) the reality that any post mentioning Israel (or Jews) that didn’t mention post-10/7 Gaza would have generated a backlash. I’m not sure if he decided that the backlash would have been better for him by including the genocide statement or it was just instinctive but it definitely was a choice to treat Israel and this statement differently than other groups being recognized.
    @drj

    Let me remind you of the legal definition of genocide as recorded in the 1948 Genocide Convention:

    In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

    You may want to re-read this actually because the reality is that the Israeli actions, while horrific, wrong and replete with war crimes, don’t meet that definition. Palestinians are citizens of Israel and serve in the legislature.

    Note, I am not saying that people who call it genocide are antisemitic but they are, in my opinion, wrong in using that label. And that the label was being applied by pro-Palestinian activists in early October before Israel entered Gaza suggests that using it inappropriately, when we can use the much more defensible war crimes label completely accurately, is more a result of a publicity effort than an accuracy effort.

    @MarkedMan

    Israel is an apartheid state

    No, it isn’t. Unless you are watering down the definition of apartheid to include the United States and every other country. Israel, like other states, has a bigotry problem but Arab citizens of Israel do in fact have full rights. Non-citizens don’t.

    Again, that does not mean that I agree with or support the actions of the Israelis in the current government or in the settlers movement (I’d suggest that I have a longer track record than most here condemning them as I was talking about this in the late 80’s) but words have meanings. Applying them inaccurately doesn’t help resolve situations.

    @Modulo Myself

    Mamdani’s statement seemed pretty banal, the reaction along the lines of ‘we need a safe space once per year where Palestinians are insects and not human beings’ is what one expects if you’re around people who have been completely brainwashed.

    Your description of their reaction strikes me as more uncharitable than theirs to Mamdani’s statement.

    And your description of Israel and the region reeks of ignorance and insanity. What “seems” like reality to you is legitimately batshit insane.
    a. “Israel is an actual colonial power in their own country” – I don’t know what you mean to suggest in this formulation but Israel is no more a “colonial power” than Pakistan. A majority of Jewish Israelis are from the Middle East (not Europe) and Jews, like Palestinians, are native to the region. This really is a situation with two people native to one land.
    b. ” To avert the endgame which led to 10/7 required pressure, but that didn’t happen.” – you seem to suggest that 10/7 was a result of Israeli action. That makes no sense. Israel had been out of Gaza since 2005 – and removed over twenty settlements from Gaza . What pressure on Israel by the US on Israel would have stopped Hamas from being a terrorist organization committed to Israel’s destruction? Or launching the 10/7 attack?
    c. “The Israel military is too weak to even defeat Hamas in action“.
    (1) Just like the US military was “too weak” to defeat the Viet Cong or the Taliban? Conventional military always has challenges with terrorists embedded in the local population.
    (2) More to the point, the IDF has defeated Hamas in Gaza. It may not have “ended” Hamas but Hamas is a shadow of its previous strength. Its leadership has been decimated, it has no conventional strength left, it is incapable of governing, it has lost much of its support/control over Gazan Palestinians.

    The principal issue is that there is no Palestinian alternative able/willing to take up leadership – and that isn’t something Israel can impose or fix.
    d. “internal politics of the country is all crazy right-wing nonsense” No, it isn’t. In fact, most of the internal; politics in Israel isn’t about the Palestinians. The Palestinian citizens of Israel aren’t considered terrorists by most of the population.
    e. “Two states will never happen, because Israel will never do it (try to imagine any deal being followed through by the Israelis without backtracking).” Reality check: It hasn’t been Israel who has repeatedly rejected a two-state solution. Israel actually does have a track record of reaching deals to withdraw from territories, including removing settlements over the protests of those being removed. This happened both in the Sinai deal with Egypt and in 2005 and the withdrawal from Gaza.

    The hang up from Israel has been security. The hang up from Palestinians have been the existence of Israel. One is surmountable in a two state solution and the other prevents it from happening. This isn’t a new situation. It has been were we have been for decades.

    @Charley in Cleveland Agree with your sentiment but wanted to chime in to explain why antisemitism refers only to bigotry against Jews. Th word was created by a German bigot in the late 19th century who thought it sounded more rational and scientific than the traditional “Juden Hasse” or Jew-hatred. Note that “Semitic” was an 18th century categorization of languages, not people or ethnicities, from the Levant. Semitic language include Arabic, Hebrew, Aramaic, Tigre, Maltese, Amharic).

    1
    1. “Israel is an actual colonial power in their own country” – I don’t know what you mean to suggest in this formulation but Israel is no more a “colonial power” than Pakistan. A majority of Jewish Israelis are from the Middle East (not Europe) and Jews, like Palestinians, are native to the region. This really is a situation with two people native to one land.

      The Middle East is not Palestine. The Palestinians were native to Palestine when the Zionist settlers arrived. After Jewish people were expelled from other countries in the Middle East, they came to the country of Israel, but that doesn’t mean they were native to the region.

      Everything else you wrote is just as self-serving and disconnected; not even worth debating, really. I get why people don’t want to believe that Israel is a colonial power. But it’s just not true; and trying to spin it otherwise doesn’t work anymore.

      1
      1. The Middle East is not Palestine. The Palestinians were native to Palestine when the Zionist settlers arrived.

        So were the Jews.

        Do they not also get right to self-determination?

        After Jewish people were expelled from other countries in the Middle East, they came to the country of Israel, but that doesn’t mean they were native to the region.

        But they are native to the region. Denying it is ahistorical bullshit.

        More to the point, claiming Israel is “colonial” – besides being bullshit – is an argument that Jewish self-determination is not valid and to delegitimize its very existence. The principal people espousing this view over the past few decades, routinely intimated that the citizens of Israel should be genocided.

        If that isn’t your intention, what argument are you trying to make with your use of the ahistorical “colonial” label? What path forward are you proposing?

        1
        1. It’s basic to an understanding of current Israeli politics that the former dominance of the European derived founders of Israel in the 1940s to ’70s has been replaced by the demographic advance of the post-independence influx of the MENA derived Mizrahim.
          Who now make up over 48% of the population (more if you include the part-Mizrahi and Sephardi descendants)
          The rise of Likud was largely due to their shifting from being a vehicle for the “right-nationalist” Ashkenazi to embracing the Mizrahi.

          The point is, that as the Mizrahi influx was largely due to Arab nationalist persecutions (Baghdad in 1948 was about 40% Jewish; now virtually nil) they have consequent suspicions of Arab/Muslim benevolence.

        2. dazedandconfused Avatar
          dazedandconfused

          JohnSF,

          The rise of Likud is also attributed to the very large influx of Russian speaking and other slavic Jews, a million of which moved to Israel when the USSR fell.

          Some AI dreck on that:
          The mass migration of over one million Russian-speaking (Slavic/former Soviet Union) Jews to Israel since 1989 profoundly transformed the nation’s demographics and directly fueled the rise and long-term dominance of the right-wing Likud party. Accounting for roughly 15% of Israel’s population, this demographic wave structurally anchored a secular, nationalist right-wing political base that tilted the country’s electoral balance.

        3. @dazedandconfused

          The rise of Likud is also attributed to the very large influx of Russian speaking and other slavic Jews, a million of which moved to Israel when the USSR fell.

          While I’m sure that contributed to their staying power, Likud has been in power off and on since 1977–going on half a century.

    2. Arab citizens of Israel do in fact have full rights. Non-citizens don’t.

      This is ridiculous. They have complete control over 2 millions non citizens who they pillage and murder with impunity. And yes, they do have a favored group of minorities in addition to that, just as South Africa did. You can make up any definition you like and quibble, but Israel is, in absolute fact, an apartheid state

      2
      1. And yes, they do have a favored group of minorities in addition to that, just as South Africa did.

        What are you talking about?! During SA’s apartheid period, no blacks were allowed to vote. No blacks were allowed to serve in parliament. There were absolutely no exceptions whatsoever, let alone 2 million exceptions.

        1. The model minority in apartheid SA were Indians. Remember Mahatma Gandhi?

          Go ahead and define apartheid in as precise and limited way as you want, so it only applies to SA, it that gives you breathing room. But that’s just for you. It doesn’t change reality. Israel is a murderous apartheid state.

        2. The model minority in apartheid SA were Indians. Remember Mahatma Gandhi?

          Indians were also denied the right to vote for almost the entirety of the apartheid period. And are you actually suggesting that the difference between the Arab citizens of Israel and those in the West Bank and Gaza is comparable to the difference between blacks and Indians?

          You are really grasping at straws here.

      2. Ignorant rubbish.

        Define Apartheid. Because any accurate definition doesn’t apply to Israel. Citizens, regardless of their race or religion get the same economic rights. They get to vote and run for office and buy land and own businesses.

        Yes, the Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza are treated horrifically but that does not make Israel an Apartheid state given that they aren’t Israeli citizens.

        1
      3. There is a distinction between Arab/Muslim citizens of Israel, about a fifth of the population, and the populations of the West Bank and Gaza.
        The former ARE citizens, with rights appertaining.
        The populations of the occupied territories are not.

        That is the problem: to make them legally eligeable for equal rights, Israel would have to annex and incorporate the West Bank and Gaza.

        What has been foolish is Israel’s policy of settlement by Israelis who are full citizens in occupied territory.
        Such are the problems of democracy: the democratic majority of Israelis have never been persuaded of the need to curb the West Bank settlers.

        They did do so re the Gaza settlers; an act the pro-settler parties continue to hold to be a betrayal.

    3. Israeli actions, while horrific, wrong and replete with war crimes, don’t meet that definition [of genocide]. Palestinians are citizens of Israel and serve in the legislature.

      You conveniently missed the “in whole or in part” part of the definition. That some Palestinians are not subject to genocidal action doesn’t mean that genocide isn’t taking place elsewhere.

      If you really want to have this discussion, you should focus on the intent part of the definition (something that is always difficult to prove). That is really the only thing that is at least somewhat open to debate.

      Micky Mouse arguments like “not all members of group x face genocide” or (per Reynolds) “the minimum numbers are not being hit” are not serious. There is nothing in the definition of genocide (deliberately so) that either excludes or requires either.

      As to the question whether Israel is an apartheid state, deniers always, always leave out the situation on the West Bank. That’s got to be completely deliberate at this point.

      3
      1. You clearly aren’t a lawyer and aren’t great at understanding what you read.

        Yes, Israel is committing war crimes in my opinion.

        The current government are freaking evil. I’ve been arguing this for more than a decade and in times and places in my community that have had costs for me.

        Too much of the voting population have been radicalized by decades of terror attacks and a collective memory of how they were treated in the diaspora (especially as the Mizrachi and Soviet population has swelled and taken more political power).

        All that is true but it is also true that the violence in Gaza is not directed to the Gazans being Palestinian but because they are Hamas. If it was because they were Palestinians we would see the same efforts in Israel itself or the West bank. And we don’t. Which, again, is not to excuse or justify but to be accurate.

        1
      2. As to the question whether Israel is an apartheid state, deniers always, always leave out the situation on the West Bank. That’s got to be completely deliberate at this point.

        I deliberately brought them up because basing your argument on them highlight the invalidity of the comparison.

        The West Bank is not part of Israel. It is occupied territory (captured from Jordan in ’67) and has not been annexed.

        Are you claiming that the US an Apartheid state in the first twenty years of this century by denying the right of Afghans to vote in US elections?

      3. That definition of genocide was, quite frankly, silly, and the legal opinions and the votes of nations concerned be damned.

        “(a) Killing members of the group”

        Allied war in WW2 was definitely engaged in killing members of groups.
        And also arguably (b) and (c).
        Arguably any war between nations will do so.

        It seems to have been mainly a lawyers quest for a bunch of definitions that would suit all concerned.

        Personally, I’m inclined to default to “an attempt to extirpate an entire ethnic group”, and to heck with the UN definitions.

        On that basis, if Israel is attempting to extirpate the population of Gaza, it’s being rather ineffective in doing so.
        A serious attempt could surely do a lot more.
        Other conflicts have certainly killed higher percentages of the civilian population, even when that was not a primary goal.

        Israel is pretty certainly guilty of war crimes in Gaza.
        But while genocide is always a war crime, not all war crimes are genocide.

    4. They just banned all Arab parties from the kinesset. Sounds like the actions of an apartheid government in its early steps.

  9. Controversy drives headlines, so everyone now yells and shakes their fists so that they can have their headline.

    If one were to say, “I’m disappointed with Mamdani” one does not even get a mention on page 20. There are no likes, no reshares. You will not be trending fast.

    But “Mamdani is a traitor” will get you lots of heat. And that’s the game. That’s the hot take. That what drives engagement.

    Just another example of how social media is bad for us.

    I cannot think of any policy decision for the City of New York that in the slightest bit turns on the issue of Israel v. Gaza. Yes, lots of people in NYC have stakes in that issue. But Mamdani has zero impact on it. Though of course, I’m sure there are New Yorkers who think that the City has tons of influence and why aren’t they using it?!!!

  10. Mamdani’s statement was tone deaf, predictably so. Should’ve ended after the first paragraph. The rest impressed no one who wasn’t already a Mamdani stan, changed no minds, and improved nothing for Palestinians on the ground. Could’ve waited till 14 October to issue the remainder, would’ve had the exact same non-effec, just without added outrage, anger, and bitterness.

    All that, and this is the thanks:

    Hundreds of pro-Palestinian protesters on Wednesday night overran a vigil marking Oct. 7 attended by New York City Mayor Zohran Mamdani.

    The demonstrators swamped the area of Union Square Park that was supposed to host the event held by Israelis for Peace, a left-wing peace group…

    Upon learning Mamdani was present, the pro-Palestinian protesters booed and broke into a chant of “Traitor!” and “Zohran, what do you say? How many boots did you lick today?”

    Why bother?

    It’s remarkable the Israeli peace movement has survived at all, however shrunken. On 7 Oct, Hamas targeted Israeli communities most supportive of their cause and most opposed Netanyahu’s misrule. This was deliberate, no accident: Hamas and Likud-aligned terrorists have worked in concert for decades to sideline Israeli and Palestinian moderates and liberals, in preparation for their own confrontation — hence Bibi’s now-infamous boast about “funding and boosting” Hamas to prevent a Palestinian state, or he and the right inciting Rabin’s assassination.

    If The Mayor couldn’t leave well-enough alone and just had to add more to his 7 Oct commemoration, a good place to land might’ve been focus on the resilience of Israel’s left-wing peace movement, despite pressure from Israeli and Palestinian holy warriors. That would’ve made the point without starting another otiose tussle over antisemitism and genocide.

    But that would’ve required a bit of depth. So far, Mamdani’s nine months has been distinguished by messaging photo-ops and filled potholes. This has value but can only get one so far. At some point, there has to be success beyond the shallow to justify the hype. He’s still in his sea legs era tho, there’s time. Maybe he can solve the rat problem, that would be a good government earthquake.

    1
    1. Maybe he can solve the rat problem, that would be a good government earthquake.

      https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2026/aug/08/new-york-city-rats-trash-bins

      Summary: Mamdani is continuing (and in some areas expanding) Adams’ plan to make sure garbage is in rat-proof containers. Where implemented, this has cut the number of reported rat sightings by a third.

      He has cut the role of Rat Czar, however.

  11. On the third anniversary of the deadliest day for the Jewish people since the Holocaust,

    The Holocaust was an attack on the Jewish people. Jewish people who had been living peacefully scattered across Europe for generations.

    10/7 was an attack on Israel, an apartheid state. A state that had been committing atrocities for decades before this, and shown no signs of stopping.

    Once again, Israel is not the sum total of the Jewish people. Conflating Jews and Israel is antisemitism.

    And, a note for the NY Times, when they write this:

    It seemed inevitable that the third anniversary of the Oct. 7 attacks would touch off tensions for Zohran Mamdani, a longtime critic of Israel and the first Muslim mayor of a city that is 12 percent Jewish.

    Some of the fiercest critics of Israel that I know are Jews living in NYC — disgusted by the actions of Israel and the conflation of Jews with the state of Israel. That 12% figure contains a very sizable number of Jews who strongly condemn Israeli actions.

    1
    1. Once again, Israel is not the sum total of the Jewish people. Conflating Jews and Israel is antisemitism

      True but…

      While it is correct that Medinat Yisrael is not Am Yisrael, to ignore that the reason that the conflict exists is that Israel is a Jewish state that the Arabs won’t coexist with and that the overwhelming amount of the victims were Jews is sophistry.

      2
      1. It’s a notable but oft forgotten fact that when the PLO was first formed in 1964, dedicated to the “liberation of Palestine”, Gaza, East Jerusalem, and the West Bank were not under Israeli rule.
        And, as with the fedayeen who preceded the PLO, there was zero attempt to obtain a Palestinian state in the West Bank, East Jerusalem, and Gaza, and zero inclination of the Arab states to press for it.

        For that reason, there has been considerable Israeli scepticism, post-1967, to accept as given the bona fides of those saying that it’s solely the post-Six Day War situation that is the issue.

        Similar applies, in a different way, to the outcome the “Second Intifada” of 2000-2005, which wrecked the Labour Party and the Peace Movement in Israel.
        Of which ironically the Kibbutzes Hamas slaughtered on October 7 were one of the last centres of.

  12. The fact that we have apparently been getting altered reports from the Embassy isn’t going to help matters much:

    How a U.S. Diplomat Suppressed and Altered Reports Critical of Israel
    A top aide to Ambassador Mike Huckabee skewed information to portray the Netanyahu government in a favorable light, according to multiple officials and documents obtained by The Times.

    1. Huckabee is an idiot.
      See his recent complaints to the British government about UK policy re Israel.
      Someone needs to remind him he is the US Ambassador to Israel, not Netanyahu’s plenipotentiary representative to the world.

      The rather odd US Republican/Likud amalgam is really rather damaging to both sides.
      Netanyahu’s all-in bet on the MAGAvangelicals is liable to bite him.
      And polling indicates that even the GoP base is becoming increasingly skeptical of all-in alignment with Likud.

  13. From the quote from Politico:

    Prominent Jewish groups in New York City, though, have cycled through near constant outrage at the mayor’s criticism of Israel, arguing it has inflamed antisemitism and hate crimes against local Jews.

    Are these the same prominent Jewish groups that were saying that Mamdani being at the 9/11 memorial on 9/11 was antisemitic?

    I would posit that it is Israel’s actions and the conflation of Jews and Israel that have really ramped up the antisemitism. A conflation that a bunch of pro-Israeli groups encourage because they care less about Jews than they do Israel.

    1
  14. For the people who feel “Israel deserves a day to mourn:”
    The IDF strikes funerals in Gaza. Intentionally.

    1
  15. Is terrorism even really a thing, or is it just another form of war?

    I don’t see a huge difference between 10/7, and the US bombing Iran except for the distance between the killers and the killed. Or Israel’s long standing policy of “mowing the lawn.”

    Further, it’s not like the Israeli citizens are entirely blameless — it is a democracy.

    So, fuck the victims of 10/7. If they’re martyrs, they are martyrs to their own stupidity and cruelty in perpetuating a cycle of violence and thinking it would never touch them. Sucks to be them.

    1. Is terrorism even really a thing, or is it just another form of war?

      It is a thing. Legally and morally.

      That you apparently don’t care about civilians being murdered raises questions about your lack of a moral compass, your fitness to be part of a civilized society and the reason you only care about some civilians being murdered….

      Given that the violence didn’t start on 10/7, your same logic would justify the war crimes in Gaza and yet, you don’t seem to be tolerant there.

      2
  16. So, fuck the victims of 10/7. If they’re martyrs, they are martyrs to their own stupidity and cruelty in perpetuating a cycle of violence…

    Wacky babble like this is why white American leftists are not beating the out-of-touch crackpot allegations, why their preferred candidates underperform outside of hyperblue jurisdictions. And why the Democratic Party is very, very blessed to have black liberals (often smeared by Berniebros and Mao-loving freak Hasan Piker) and the shrinking cohort of white mainline/lib Protestants voting en masse as a bloc and moderating force, to keep the crazies from doing to Dems what MAGA has done to Rethuglikkklans.

    Chen is a volunteer driver in a joint Israeli-Palestinian program that enables Palestinian patients to receive medical care at Israeli hospitals. The Road for Recovery program, formed in 2010, with origins in a donation from Leonard Cohen, has continued uninterruptedly for patients from the West Bank since October 7, 2023, despite the Gaza war.

    The ranks of the volunteers were thinned, due to the Hamas onslaught. Six volunteers — Vivian Silver, Eli Orgad, Adi Dagan, Tami Suchman, Hayim Katsman, and Chaim Peri — were murdered in the Hamas invasion…

    But Oct victims Silver, Orgad, Dagan, Schuman, Katsman, and Peri — who literally, physically did more to help the Palestinian people than extremely-online Genocide Joe keyboard warrior slactivists combined — were peRpeTuAtiNg a cYcLe oF VioLeNcE or some other dimwitted, reductive fringe leftist falderal or something. Stupid and cruel indeed.

    3
    1. From a trans-Atlantic perspective, it’s notable that the dialogue I’ve seen on Xitter (before I got effectively blocked, lol) indicates that working class and black Dems are a lot more realistic about politics than the ideological left about the need to win decisively and govern effectively on the basis of popular consensus and economics rather than engage in “purity tests”.

      See now in the UK, the (former?) Greens pitching a “righteous left” stance that’s likely to fail hard outside a few rather idiosyncratic constituencies, and the “Guardianistas” hailing them as the vanguard of progressive politics.
      sigh

  17. Looks at thread.
    sighs
    The last main stronghold, outside a few “liberal” districts in Tel Aviv and Haifa, of the “Peace Movement” were the left kibbutzes of NW Negev/SW Ashkelon.
    And the Nova Festival was a part of that.
    The places Hamas rampaged through on October 7.
    Hamas killed the Israeli peace movement on that day.
    Quite literally killed, in many cases.

  18. dazedandconfused Avatar
    dazedandconfused

    Seems Bibi is about to revoke the citizenship of the Israelis who made the new film “NAZA”, a documentary based on interviews of IDF soldiers who described the slaughter in Gaza.

Leave a Reply

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.