Monday’s Forum

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Steven L. Taylor
About Steven L. Taylor
Steven L. Taylor is a retired Professor of Political Science and former College of Arts and Sciences Dean. His main areas of expertise include parties, elections, and the institutional design of democracies. His most recent book is the co-authored A Different Democracy: American Government in a 31-Country Perspective. He earned his Ph.D. from the University of Texas and his BA from the University of California, Irvine. He has been blogging since 2003 (originally at the now defunct Poliblog). Follow Steven on Twitter

Comments

  1. Flat Earth Luddite says:

    Crappity crap crap. The repaired nerves in my leg are, like Richard Pryor’s crack pipe in his famous bit, not happy. Today’s going to be a long one.

    Ok, whinging done.

    In other news, Oregon has given the Repugnant Old Party some ammo on against vote by mail. Apparently OR DMV mistakenly registered approximately 1200 noncitizens to vote

    Oregon erroneously added 1,259 people who didn’t provide proof of U.S. citizenship to the state’s voter rolls since 2021, Secretary of State LaVonne Griffin-Valade announced Monday, a far higher number than previously known.

    In addition, 10 of those people who were improperly registered subsequently voted, though at least one had become a U.S. citizen by the time they cast a ballot.

    Oh, the horror! 10 votes out of 3,000,000 voters!!!!!!

    https://www.opb.org/article/2024/09/23/voter-registration-noncitizen-oregon-motor-voter/

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  2. charontwo says:

    Here is something @Bobert posted in yesterday’s forum that I can react to, my emphasis inserted:

    @DeD: so Kevin Robert’s, pres of Heritage, has some very firmly held policies that his organization promotes.
    Do they endorse any candidate to persue those ideals?
    Do they imagine that Harris will adopt those policies? Probably not
    Do they imagine Trump will adopt those policies? I suspect they hope so.

    So was 2025 written as a guiding star for Trump to follow? (Cuz it certainly wasn’t written for Harris os Biden)

    Answer seems obvious to me, in spite of their protestations.

    Trump has senile dementia and has always been lazy and easy to manipulate, to play. He will be a figurehead while his “aides” actually run the country unless they get to do Amendment 25 eventually. Project 2025 will be their operating manual.

    Thomas Zimmer did a really deep dive in his recent newsletter, what Project 2025 consists of, the background, current status and more, with a lot of links included. I am not going to excerpt, it’s a long piece. Here is the substack:

    Zimmer

    There is a lot of resemblance of Project 2025 to the NAR and the Seven Mountains Mandate. In the comments to Sunday;s “Tabs” post I put up some links about Lance Wallnau who preaches this stuff.

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  3. charontwo says:

    OK, correction, here are the closing three paragraphs of my Zimmer link:

    Zimmer

    As a frame of reference, Project 2025 demands the media take these people, their actions, and their ideology seriously as the true faces of today’s American Right. Conversely, it also exposes how flawed polite society’s perspective on the Republican Party and the Right more broadly has been. It basically took an unforced error by the reactionary elites behind Project 2025 and a rather dramatic public relations blunder for the mainstream discourse to see what should have been blatantly obvious all along.

    In a way, we should be grateful for Project 2025. It can be really difficult to convey to people who, for whatever reason, don’t pay much attention to politics – as well as to those who engage with politics entirely through the sanitizing prism of mainstream media coverage – how much not just Trump, but the center of conservative politics has radicalized. Project 2025 is helpful because rightwing leaders could not possibly be clearer about the extreme vision they want to impose on the country. And because the normalizing dynamics that usually distort the discussion about what is happening on the Right apply to a much lesser degree, this is actually getting through to people. Project 2025 not only remains an excellent window into where the Right currently stands ideologically, it also focuses our attention on who the people leading the reactionary authoritarian charge are.

    The emerging picture is ugly, as toxic, anti-social behavior seems to be rather pervasive in these circles. Could this possibly be connected to the fact that these men have risen within a movement dedicated to maintaining a “natural” order, as they like to call it, defined by hierarchies of race, gender, religion, and wealth; that they are pursuing a political project seeking to preserve the ability of some (“deserving,” “virtuous”) groups to dominate (“undeserving,” “subversive”) others – that they themselves believe it is their right to dominate?

    That final paragraph sounds a lot like the NAR and Seven Mountains Mandate.

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  4. charontwo says:

    Just found a new link on Wallnau/J.D.Vance:

    PopInfo

    Excerpt:

    During the Courage Tour, Wallnau and other speakers use many terms to describe themselves and their religious movement: “evangelical,” “pentecostal,” “charismatic,” “revivalist,” “prophetic.” One term that is never used is “New Apostolic Reformation” (NAR).

    But the Courage Tour and Wallnau are part of this fast-growing and increasingly influential conservative evangelical movement.

    According to Matthew D. Taylor, a senior scholar at the Institute for Islamic, Christian, and Jewish Studies and an expert on the NAR, the movement was founded by C. Peter Wagner, an evangelical teacher and pastor, in the 1990s. Importantly, the NAR is not a denomination and does not have the formal organization and hierarchy.

    “The New Apostolic Reformation is built around networks,” Taylor explained in an interview with Popular Information. “[They are] peer to peer networks of leaders who identify as apostles and prophets and who also understand themselves to be generals of spiritual warfare whose mandate from God is to lead the church into victory over the forces of Satan.”

    Apostles are the highest spiritual leaders in the NAR, overseeing networks of prophets, churches, and other organizations. They are the leaders of what NAR thinkers call a “five-fold ministry” made up of apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, and teachers. Individuals within the NAR feel that they are called by God to inhabit one of these roles and given spiritual gifts to fulfill them, such as healing and speaking in tongues.

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  5. Gavin says:

    Always fun to see proof that when political parties and/or politicians are not attached to policies, the majority of the country is super progressive.

    Republicans don’t like Republican policies

    I don’t know what more people need to understand that the modern Republican party has less than zero ability to execute competent governance.

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  6. Stormy Dragon says:

    @Flat Earth Luddite:

    One thing I would note is that 1200 people without proof of citizenship is not the same thing as 1200 non-citizens

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  7. Kathy says:

    A book I read recently stated, numerous times, that there have been over 11,000 proposed amendments to the US Constitution, but only 27 have passed*. I went looking for confirmation on this number, and I found a Wikipedia entry, which cited a source in a Senate website. The author kept bringing this up to show how hard it is to amend the constitution.

    I haven’t found a list of all of them. The Wikipedia entry has a sampling. A lot of them are best left unpassed and forgotten. Some might have been an improvement. I was surprised to find an amendment to abolish the electoral college was proposed in 1969, and it actually passed in the House by a rather large margin. Then it was filibustered to death in the Senate.

    *Two of them cancel each other out, as one set up prohibition and the other repealed it. And ten are the Bill of Rights, passed shortly after the adoption of the constitution.

    1
  8. Liberal Capitalist says:

    …called by God to inhabit one of these roles and given spiritual gifts to fulfill them, such as healing and speaking in tongues.

    I would just love to have these events undergo a scientific peer review.

    I am so tired of vibes running the conservative party,

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  9. Mister Bluster says:

    @Liberal Capitalist:..I would just love to have these events undergo a scientific peer review.

    Let’s add karma (whatever that is) to the list of alleged phenomena subject to scientific scrutiny.

  10. JKB says:

    Sal Mercogliano – a maritime historian at Campbell University (@campbelledu) and former merchant mariner – discussing the impending shutdown of the East and Gulf coast ports. On the one side, the ILA union, on the other a consortium of mostly foreign port operators/shipping companies, including the China Overseas Shipping Company. The same shipping companies that extorted the Biden admin to use the US Navy to protect non-US flag ships in the Red Sea.

    1
  11. charontwo says:

    Remember the Coalition Provisional Authority in Iraq, staffed by a bunch of recent Liberty University grads and supposed to manage the Iraq economy, how well that worked out?

    I suspect Project 2025 would find its grunts by mining Turning Point, Liberty, Hillsdale, Bob Jones etc. Should just exude competence.

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  12. MarkedMan says:

    In 1964 George Wallace ran for the Democratic nomination on a segregationist, inciting crowds with rhetoric coming close to mob incitement. He lost, and was rejected by the Democratic establishment, back in the time when that could happen. Over the weekend I was playing with the thought that Trump in 2016 mirrored Wallace, but at a time when the Party had lost control of the nomination. And example of Wallace from Wiki:

    Wallace was known for stirring crowds with his oratory. The Huntsville Times interviewed Bill Jones, Wallace’s first press secretary, who recounted “a particularly fiery speech in Cincinnati, Ohio in 1964 that scared even Wallace, [where he] angrily shouted to a crowd of 1,000 people that ‘little Pinkos’ were ‘running around outside’ protesting his visit, and continued, after thunderous applause, saying, ‘When you and I start marching and demonstrating and carrying signs, we will close every highway in the country.’ The audience leaped to its feet and headed for the exit”, Jones said, “It shook Wallace. He quickly moved to calm them down.”[24]

    At graduation exercises in the spring of 1964 at Bob Jones University in Greenville, South Carolina, Wallace received an honorary doctorate.[37] At the commencement, Bob Jones Jr., read the following citation as a tribute to Wallace:[38]

    Men who have fought for truth and righteousness have always been slandered, maligned, and misrepresented. The American press in its attacks upon Governor Wallace has demonstrated that it is no longer free, American, or honest. But you, Mr. Governor, have demonstrated not only by the overwhelming victories in the recent elections in your own state of Alabama, but also in the showing which you have made in states long dominated by cheap demagogues and selfish radicals that there is still in America love for freedom, hard common sense, and at least some hope for the preservation of our constitutional liberties.

  13. charontwo says:

    @charontwo:

    I suspect Project 2025 would find its grunts by mining Turning Point, Liberty, Hillsdale, Bob Jones etc. Should just exude competence.

    The model for this would be the Trump Campaign’s handing over its GOTV effort to Turning Point.

    3
  14. SC_Birdflyte says:

    Relief at last! We lost power, TV, and Internet service Thursday thanks to Helene. We got power back after a few hours, but didn’t get Internet service back until just now. But we’re fortunate; we have good friends in Weaverville, NC (just north of Asheville) and they can’t even get out of their subdivision. That whole area is cut off for who knows how long.

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  15. Jen says:

    @SC_Birdflyte: Glad you are okay. The pictures are just horrific.

    3
  16. Mister Bluster says:

    @SC_Birdflyte:..power, TV, and Internet service

    Back in the good old days when I worked storm damage to restore service to residences people would bring me coffee and cookies when they got their dial tone back. Now telephone service isn’t even mentioned.

    3
  17. Flat Earth Luddite says:

    @Stormy Dragon:

    Oh I know, Stormy. I’m giggling about how their knickers are knotted up by meaningless numbers. And we KNOW they’re gonna scream about this.

    1
  18. CSK says:

    @SC_Birdflyte:

    Glad all’s well with you.

    2
  19. Neil Hudelson says:

    @Mister Bluster:

    I like your new pfp. I think I’ve shared here before some of my discoveries after buying the house of a nonagenarian semi-hoarding white supremacist, including a lot of election stuff. Lots of Wallace and Pat Buchanan memorabilia, and bunches of David Duke merch even though this guy lived in Indiana his whole life and not LA. Also, quite few “I Like Ike” buttons. I like Ike as well, so I kept those as well as one single Wallace button as an historical oddity. The rest were burned in a bon fire while drinking one of the stashes of his whiskey I found.

    (He stashed a lot of things–bullets, bibles, whiskey and homemade wine/vinegar, lightbulbs, [limited] cash–in the ground, in the walls. Couldn’t be too careful knowing the blacks/jews/government officials were going to come by any moment to take away your .22 rifles.)

    (Seriously, lots and lots and lots of boxes and waterproof canisters of .22 shells and a few rifles in the walls. You’d think prepping for the apocalypse would entail hoarding something with a bit more oomph and bit less squirrel-hunter-y.)

    3
  20. CSK says:

    Michael Reynolds, have you seen the 43-foot-tall marionette of a nude Trump that’s been erected (ahem) alongside a Vegas freeway?

    1
  21. Michael Reynolds says:

    @CSK:
    I have not, but I will put that on my list.

    1
  22. CSK says:

    @Michael Reynolds:

    Well, hurry, because the exhibit is going on the road tomorrow.

  23. charontwo says:

    Heather Cox Richardson on fire today:

    Richardson

    Lies establish dominance over people being lied to, because lies take away a person’s right to make good decisions about their own life. So what’s the purpose of the Republican lies?

    snip

    Republican vice presidential nominee J.D. Vance is also doubling down on anti-immigrant attacks. In that, they are echoing the language Hungarian prime minister Viktor Orbán used to get voters to support him out of fear of immigrants. Then Orbán took control of Hungary, undermined its democracy, and set himself up as a dictator.

    Once in charge, Orbán insisted that democracy was obsolete. The democratic principle that the law must treat everyone equally and give them a say in their government, he said, weakens a nation by treating women, LGBTQ+ individuals, and racial, ethnic, and religious minorities as equal to white, heterosexual men. Immigration weakens a nation by diluting its purity. He set out to establish what he called “illiberal democracy” or “Christian democracy,” enforcing religious rules and laws that reestablish patriarchy.

    Project 2025 was backed by the right-wing Heritage Foundation, which has ties to Orbán’s Danube Institute, and to the extent he talks about policies, Trump echoes that game plan. He has promised, for example, that he would replace civil servants with loyalists and today again vowed to get rid of the Department of Education, both key items in Project 2025.

    Vance has gone further, attacking secular American society itself. In 2021 he said in an interview that American “conservatives…have lost every major powerful institution in the country, except for maybe churches and religious institutions, which of course are weaker now than they’ve ever been. We’ve lost big business. We’ve lost finance. We’ve lost the culture. We’ve lost the academy. And if we’re going to actually really affect real change in the country, it will require us completely replacing the existing ruling class with another ruling class…. I don’t think there’s sort of a compromise that we’re going to come with the people who currently actually control the country. Unless we overthrow them in some way, we’re going to keep losing.” “We really need to be really ruthless when it comes to the exercise of power,” he said.

    On Saturday, Vance spoke at an event hosted by right-wing extremist evangelical leader Lance Wallnau, a member of the New Apostolic Reformation movement that seeks to end the separation of church and state and put the United States under religious rule. At the event, Vance claimed that “American children… can’t add five plus five, but they can tell you that there are 87 different genders.” He claimed that schools are teaching children “radical ideas” rather than “reading, writing, arithmetic.” He called it “creeping socialism in our schools,” and called for cutting funding for public education.

  24. wr says:

    @JKB: Wow. Commie union workers versus Commie furriners. Must be hard for you to figure out which one you want to lose most.

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  25. charontwo says:

    Bulwark

    The most underappreciated aspect of the Trump era is the extent to which Trump demonstrated the inadequacy of law as a mechanism for protecting the government from unscrupulous presidents.

    Did Trump run his presidential campaign, and then the United States government, as if they were criminal enterprises?

    Yes. Incontrovertibly so.

    That was the biggest takeaway from the Mueller report. Remember when:

    Trump wanted his attorney general to un-recuse himself from the Russia investigation. But he didn’t want a record of the instruction. So he called in a private citizen (Corey Lewandowski) and dictated a message for him to relay orally to the AG.2

    This passage from the report is gold:

    The President also asked [Don] McGahn in the meeting why he had told Special Counsel’s Office investigators that the President had told him to have the Special Counsel removed. McGahn responded that he had to and these conversations with the President were not protected by attorney-client privilege. The President then asked, “What about these notes? Why do you take notes? Lawyers don’t take notes. I never had a lawyer who took notes.” McGahn responded that he keeps notes because he is a “real lawyer” and explained that notes create a record and are not a bad thing.

    And so was this one:

    In January 2018, Manafort told Gates that he had talked to the President’s personal counsel and they were “going to take care of us.” Manafort told Gates it was stupid to plead, saying that he had been in touch with the president’s personal counsel and repeating that they should “sit tight” and “we’ll be taken care of.”

    Point is: Trump runs his businesses as if they were criminal organizations and this extended to his time as CEO of the United States of America.

    And there is very little the law can do about that.

    My recollection of the beginning of “The Godfather” the neighborhood was pretty adjusted to being run by the Marlon Brando character.

    2
  26. Moosebreath says:

    @CSK: @CSK:

    “have you seen the 43-foot-tall marionette of a nude Trump that’s been erected (ahem) alongside a Vegas freeway?”

    “Well, hurry, because the exhibit is going on the road tomorrow.”

    Trump really is incontinent, then. (sorry, I couldn’t resist)

    3
  27. Sleeping Dog says:

    Pease 157th wing, KC-46A tankers deploying to southwest Asia to help ‘deter Iran’

    The. biggest reason to have air refueling in southern Asia is to refuel Israeli aircraft attacking Iran.

    2
  28. JohnSF says:

    @charontwo:

    As a frame of reference

    A Zimmer frame of reference?
    🙂

  29. Kathy says:

    @CSK:

    I googled it. It’s slightly less hideous than the original. This clip illustrates it perfectly.

    1
  30. steve says:

    Wife and I have been talking over the response to Helene. So far it looks pretty good. The western Carolinas, hill country, has been hit pretty hard. It makes a lot of sense that the federal government aid people in such an unexpected catastrophe. However, I feel a bit differently about the coastal areas, the places where they knew they were likely to face hurricanes. In the short term they should still be getting the help they need. The federal government has resources no one else does and we need to save lives.

    However, in the longer term, I think those coastal cities in the south should bear a significant share of the costs of rebuilding. People there like to brag about how they pay less in taxes and they get to have warm weather. Well, maybe their tax load should more accurately represent the true costs of living in those areas.

    Steve

    5
  31. Michael Reynolds says:

    @JKB: @JKB:

    The same shipping companies that extorted the Biden admin to use the US Navy to protect non-US flag ships in the Red Sea.

    Even you must understand that the alternative to the USN policing the seas, is to have China, India, Japan, South Korea, UK, France, Germany, Russia (cult leader’s cult leader) and a few dozen other nations all squeezing their navies into the Red Sea and Persian Gulf to protect their ships.

    Right? Go on Google Maps. Look at the Red Sea and the Gulf.

    Trump, completely ignorant of history and everything else, of course cannot understand anything that isn’t a transaction, or an ass-kissing. He seems to think we rent out the US Navy. He thinks the US military is a mercenary force, for sale, like he’s for sale. The US military is not (yet) a mercenary force, they are the physical manifestation of American power. We wanted domination of the seas, because as the only top tier navy in the world, we have access everywhere, and bases everywhere, and can deny same to enemies, so that we can blow shit up everywhere on earth. There is a whole lot more ocean than land on this planet, and we own the ocean. That’s why we’re a superpower. And not the banana republic of your dreams.

    5
  32. Mister Bluster says:

    @Neil Hudelson:..I like your new pfp.

    This is not a campaign button that I own. It is straight off the internet. I do have several that I found in a sandwich bag at the local thrift shop. Most are from candidates who have run in my lifetime, since 1948. I suspect that the Coolidge for President with his image and the script
    RED GARTER-CAMPAIGN HDQTRS (sic) across the bottom of the button may not be an original as his only elected term began on March 4, 1925.

  33. Kathy says:

    Fulton County Superior Court judge Robert McBurney struck down Georgia’s abortion ban.

    This is good. I’d feel better if I knew what come next. I assume the ruling can and will be appealed, So maybe this reprieve won’t last long.

    On other news, Biden calls out El Weirdo for lying (apologies for the link to Xitter).

    2
  34. gVOR10 says:

    Over at LGM I find that a careful analysis by Rolling Stone shows JD What’s His Name grew up in a comfortably middle class situation. Partially supported by his grandfather’s union pension from the steel mill. I know it’s hard to believe be he might have lied, but there it is.

    3
  35. Bill Jempty says:

    Pete Rose has passed away. A better ballplayer than a human being Baseball author Bill James would have described him*. Rose bet on baseball and deserved the ban handed down to him by MLB.

    *- Not just because of gambling. Rose had other less than pleasant attributes.

  36. CSK says:

    @gVOR10:

    Even back when the critics were cooing over the wondrousness of Hillbilly Elegy, I had a feeling this guy was a total phony and operator, and that his book was fabricated horseshit.

    I was right.

    4