Tea Party Racists
Some large number of Tea Party protesters assembled in the nation’s capital yesterday to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. It appears that some smaller number of them acted abhorrently.
HuffPo’s Sam Stein:
A staffer for Rep. James Clyburn (D-S.C.) told reporters that Rep. Emanuel Cleaver (D-Mo.) had been spat on by a protestor. Rep. John Lewis (D-Ga.), a hero of the civil rights movement, was called a ‘ni–er.’ And Rep. Barney Frank (D-Mass.) was called a “faggot,” as protestors shouted at him with deliberately lisp-y screams. Frank, approached in the halls after the president’s speech, shrugged off the incident.
But Clyburn was downright incredulous, saying he had not witnessed such treatment since he was leading civil rights protests in South Carolina in the 1960s.
“It was absolutely shocking to me,” Clyburn said, in response to a question from the Huffington Post. “Last Monday, this past Monday, I stayed home to meet on the campus of Claflin University where fifty years ago as of last Monday… I led the first demonstrations in South Carolina, the sit ins… And quite frankly I heard some things today I have not heard since that day. I heard people saying things that I have not heard since March 15, 1960 when I was marching to try and get off the back of the bus.”
CNN:
Civil rights icon and veteran Rep. John Lewis, D-Georgia, said anti-health care bill protesters Saturday repeatedly yelled the “N” word at him as he left a heath care meeting and walked to the Capitol. “I haven’t seen heard anything like this in more than 40 years, maybe 45.” Lewis said. “Since the march from Selma to Montgomery really.”
[…]
A CNN producer overheard the word “faggot” yelled at Frank several times in the lobby of the Longworth building. Frank said he heard someone yell “homo” at him.
TPM’s Brian Beutler:
Tea partiers and other anti-health care activists are known to get rowdy, but today’s protest on Capitol Hill–the day before the House is set to vote on historic health care legislation–went beyond the usual chanting and controversial signs, and veered into ugly bigotry and intimidation.
Civil rights hero Rep. John Lewis (D-GA) and fellow Congressional Black Caucus member Andre Carson (D-IN) related a particularly jarring encounter with a large crowd of protesters screaming “kill the bill”… and punctuating their chants with the word “nigger.”
[…]
After the caucus meeting, TPMDC’s Evan McMorris-Santoro caught up with Frank, who reflected on the incident. “I’m disappointed at a unwillingness to be just civil,” Frank said. “[T]he objection to the health care bill has become a proxy for other sentiments.” “Obviously there are perfectly reasonable people that are against this, but the people out there today on the whole–many of them were hateful and abusive,” Frank added.
[…]
“If this was my cause, and I saw this angry group yelling and shouting and being so abusive to people, I would ask them to please stop it,” Frank concluded. “I think they do more harm than good.”
The nature of attracting tens of thousands of people from around the country to protest is such that you are bound to attract a disproportionate share of yahoos, reprobates, and slimeballs. Whether the Tea Party movement has more of these than your average anti-war rally or World Trade Organization protest, I don’t know.
But Barney Frank is right on all scores here.
Not only is uncivil conduct “disappointing,” it’s ultimately destructive. (Indeed, while I share common cause on some issues, I’ve been dismissive of the Tea Party movement precisely because of their unfocused anger and rude behavior.) If the Civil Rights protests of the 1960s taught us anything, it was that the quiet dignity of citizens gathered to respectfully demand justice is enormously powerful — especially when it’s juxtaposed against thuggish behavior from the other side.
Movements with significant numbers of incidents like this — whether representative or not — are simply much easier to dismiss.
UPDATE: Dana Loesch produces this 22-second video — from Media Matters, no less — in which no racial epithets are hurled at Lewis.
QED: No racial epithets were hurled at Lewis all day. (Also, it’s always bright and sunny in DC.)
Just to be safe, though, I see via Steve Benen that the RNC Chairman, the House Republican Leader, and Chairman of the House Republican conference have all denounced the alleged incidents as “reprehensible.”
Following reports yesterday that black and openly gay Democratic lawmakers were subjected to spitting and epithets from anti-health care reform protesters outside the Capitol, Republican leaders said Sunday that the incidents were “isolated” and “reprehensible.”
On CNN’s “State of the Union,” Rep. Mike Pence (R-Ind.) denounced the use of such slurs “in the strongest terms.”
House Minority Leader John Boehner (R-Ohio), said on NBC’s “Meet the Press” that the “isolated incidents” were “reprehensible.”
Later on the same program, Michael Steele, the Republican National Committee’s first black chairman, agreed that the incidents were “reprehensible,” and added, “we do not support that.” “What you had out there yesterday were a handful of people who just got stupid and said some ignorant things,” Steele said.
So, at least the GOP leadership realizes that these slurs aren’t good for branding.
I’d feel a lot more comfortable making such charges if I had video of it. Not saying these things did not happen, there are kooks in every crowd, but the videos I’ve seen don’t support the charges.
Surely we recall the bogus “Kill him” McCain rally story?
To clarify, I’m not saying this is necessarily bogus, or even unlikely and I certainly don’t intend to say that Dr. Joyner is making the claim that this is true.
It’s just that HuffPo, TPM and CNN are so notoriously hostile to Tea partiers that I’d stick a question mark in the headline until I had decent corroboration. But perhaps I’m being overly cautious.
No doubt there are uncivil people and even a few racists in any crowd, but make no mistake that this is an attempt at guilt by association, trying to paint the entire Tea Party movement as racist and violent because of the actions of a few losers.
Clovis, the Fox headline is “Tea Party Leader, GOP Condemn Racial Slurs Hurled at Black Lawmakers” … I don’t think that would happen if they could make the ‘bogus’ claim fly.
Beyond that … seems the Tea Partiers can’t win for losing right now. Maybe it’s that a “response” movement can’t survive for the long run. They can gather people who are against things but it’s hard to hold that disorganized opposition together – especially when the more reasonable dissenters start to notice who they are hanging out with.
I think you can certainly make the claim that Dr. Joyner is assuming it is true since the URL to this story contains “tea_party_racists” and the headline is “Tea Party Racists.”
This is a perfect example of irresponsible news analysis and leftist hypocrisy. They cannot prove with evidence the claims are true, but they assume the claims are true and then use it to decry the Tea Party activists are racists.
Dr. Joyner talks a lot about the “rude behavior” of a movement he disagrees with, but turns a blind eye to the rude behavior of those with which he agrees. How convenient. How hypocritical.
Now, Dr. Joyner, are pro-gay marriage protesters racist? I mean, after all, when the data came out on Prop 8 and it was revealed that black Californians did not support gay marriage by a large margin, there were reports by gay black men that the N-word was thrown at them by other gay men.
Until I see the video evidence (and there is video of aides following the Congressmen on the street, recording their walk on their cell phones, so if they spat upon or called unspeakable names, then show us the footage) I will assume this is a last-ditch, pathetic attempt to paint people who simply are sick to death of unsustainable debt levels as racists and homophobes from a crowd who have no issue calling them “teabaggers.” I also find it racist that this crowd continually dismisses them as a bunch of angry “white” people by simply ignoring the minorities who are among them as if they do not exist.
The bad apples should be culled but it’s hard to do with a loose organization and especially during open rallies. Clovis’ point is correct, there are certain groups and news agencies looking to marginalize the Tea Party whenever they get the chance so isolated incidences will be played up.
What those politicians should note is how divisive this issue is and then take a moment to figure out why. It’s bad legislation that will impact the entire country. No wonder people are angry.
Oh yeah Steve, Fox News is out to marginalize the Tea Party.
(Though I suppose a persecution complex would fit right in with the Tea Party psychology.)
I’m sure that turning this Tea Party example around means that those sympathetic to this stereotyping, would be just as willing to give the benefit of the doubt to other organizations even if they disagree with them.
I dislike this common tactic of picking out the worst behavior or dumbest thing said by some fringe person or group, then using that to characterize the whole group. The huge majority of Tea Party folks are decent people. While I may disagree with some of their beliefs and think that they are, as a group, hypocritical or ignorant about prior policy, this kind of behavior is not typical.
Steve
How can we know that these extremists are not just plants by various groups to discredit “Tea Party” folk?
Mad about unsustainable debt levels. There’s two ways of dealing with piling up government debt: more revenue, or less spending. More revenue = taxes, which they oppose. So what spending do they want to cut then?
Thus far, all I’ve heard is earmarks, foreign aid & “welfare”, which make up virtually nothing of the budget compared to the military & SS/Medicare.
No, the majority of Tea Party types aren’t bigoted nutjobs, I agree. But that doesn’t mean they’re reasonable by default.
Some charming video of tea party types screaming at a parkinsons disease victim.
Well, of course we need to see the tape! As Tangoman told us below, we can’t even trust the word of Civil Rights hero John Lewis…
Ohhh…so you understand the anger of those who were/are opposed to the War in Iraq and realize that their anger was/is entirely justified? And Derrick is spot on above…I don’t see anybody around here who wants to give these people the benefit of the doubt doing the same for the majority of the people involved with ACORN…funny, that…
I think it’s time for the tea party/birthers to demand proof that Obama WAS NOT born in this country. After all, the right would not want to jump to conclusions, be unfair, or twist something for a political advantage…
And now, time for the pathetic excuses…
I’m with Clovis and Chuck Austin.
I eamn, the bogus ‘racist’ charge is the first knee-jerk reaction of liberals to anything they’d rather not face.
Consider, now; We have a protest of perhaps 40,000 people against Obamacare Socialism. The so-called mainstream press, says nothing about it until the left coughs up a few unprovable reports about racism. Then suddenly they can’t repeat the reports enough.
I’ve got vid up on my site of the supposed confrontation with Lewis. I defy anyone to tell me where the supposed racism was.
So, one might conclude that the only way those protests were going to get reported was enough something that made those protesters look evil , somehow, could be slipped into the story. Even, apparently, if it was all a lie.
ANyone shocked by this? Anyone at all?
It’s also hard to do when a significant portion of the Tea Party movement doesn’t consider them bad apples. The fact that a broad swath of the right is extremely anti-gay isn’t particularly news.
Behavior like this is one of the reasons that many actual small government supporters (i.e. those who were for small government prior to January 20, 2009) think the Tea Party movement is bogus; they’re find with intrusive government. Their only problem is with Obama’s ends, not his means.
I agree that the Tea Party folks aren’t racist nutjobs. They’re still nutjobs. An example is Eric Florack’s rant about ObamaCare socialism.
This is coming from the idiot who referred to Obama as “Jimmy Carter in blackface” & who has a post entitled “Barack Obama – House Ni__er” on his website.
so… any opposition to Obama… any labeling of socialism as such makes one a nut job? How very predictable.
I recognize it’s a stretch for you, Anjin, but you may want to actually READ the posts in question before spouting again, lest you are thought to be more of a fool than your reputation makes you already.
Actually, I think it is your insistence that the US Armed Forces are not part of the federal government, and that we were once 2 weeks away from victory in Viet Nam. But there are so many examples it is really had to chooses only one or two.
Tell ya what bistsy. Walk up to a random black man. Use the word “Ni__ger”. Use it in any context you want. Tell him you think Obama is Jimmy Carter in blackface.
I have 5 bucks that says you get your ass kicked. But you are the kind of guy who only says such things while safely hidden behind a computer, so we both know that this little experiment will never take place.
Funny thing, Anjin… when an accusation is put out against a leftist you’re the first one to demand proof of the accusation. So where are your demands for proof here?
There were apparently a number of cameras out there, including those of the left. (And the mainstream press, but I repeat myself)
Yet of all that, no video evidence has surfaced that the accusations are anything like true. Indeed, the only video evidence is already posted on my site, and it runs directly a full of what the democrats are charging.
The fact is if what the Democrats charge happened, actually did happen, there would be evidence of it. In the absence, apologies should be tendered to the anti Obamacare protesters. And as far as I’m concerned, a congressional investigation into the AP spreading charges as fact, should also be initiated. It won’t happen, of course, but it should.
In the meantime you are to get that crutch of yours adjusted. You’re going to be needing it for awhile.
Interesting story, except for one thing. Video evidence DOES exist:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SCs6pSE8_I
And it didn’t happen. There were a lot of boos, a chant of kill the bill. But there were NO racial slurs!
Eric, socialism is government ownership of the means of production. When you use the word loosely the way you did, you invite being called a nutjob. Right now, roughly half the country supports the health care reform bill
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/2010/0320/Which-way-America-on-healthcare-bill-vote
and of those who oppose it, many think it doesn’t go far enough. Are all these people socialists?
Gah. Sorry. Didn’t mean to start a kvetch session. It just struck me as odd, y’know. Another thing that struck me about the good Doctor’s post was the “…I’ve been dismissive of the Tea Party movement precisely because of their unfocused anger and rude behavior” when, the only time I’ve passed a Tea party, the folks were pretty damn cheerful.
Prof. Althouse’s boy toy (sorry Meade) seems to agree.
Does anyone here have first hand experience at a Tea party? Are the characterizations of them as “angry” accurate? I suppose I should have viewed one or two in person but, dammitall, my garden looks like hell and needs all the extra attention I can give it. So, if you’ve been to one in person (instead of being news-ically aware) please give me your impressions.
Sort of like referring to Democrats as “leftists”. Red baiting was a tactic that ran out of gas half a century ago, but some do not have the intellectual firepower to do any better. Kind of like the truly moronic continual references to the “Democrat Party”. Bitsy is the grown-up version of the guys you knew in 8th grade who liked to giggle in the locker room while the dropped “N’s” and called people who were out of earshot all kinds of names. These same guys always tended to get pretty quiet when their targets were within earshot. Most outgrow this stuff within a few years, but sadly there are exceptions.
In the meantime, here is some charming video of anti health care reform protestors abusing a victim of parkisons disease…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13TQow6zJsQ
Why of course… This is the game that gets played when liberals run out of substance.
Interesting that you attribute the vid to Loesch… I hadn’t noticed that… but he says it well:
And of course , the victim card.
Yep. And when government owns the means of healthcare production, it’s like any other good or service that they’d own. No?
And does anyone think this bill is the end of government takeovers of the production of goods and services?
Even Obama himself refers to it as a starter…
Well, if we take away the name calling, do we have a Tea Party policy?
I worry that it is the classic game of pretending that current government programs are “free market” (including Medicare) and pretending that one inch further is “socialism.”
That’s pretty crazy, but it’s the only thing that keeps Medicare qualified supporters turning out, right?
The insurance will still be private. Hospitals will still be private. Physicians will still be private. You can make the case that this will grow government spending. Government will require that people carry insurance and that insurance companies must insure people. In that sense, I guess it can be seen as wealth redistribution, but that is true of all government spending. Sometimes that ends up with a needed service, police as an example or roads. The case needs to be made that absent this reform, health care reform can be undertaken successfully absent government intervention. I see no evidence of that.
Steve
Not for long.
Perhaps that’s because every time a problem has come up in your lifetime, the answer has invariably been increased government control. You have no experience with things going toward a free market system, away from governmental so you don’t even seriously consider that it will work. You still do not really understand that government isn’t the solution… it’s the PROBLEM.
Guess you missed the Bush years, where the message to business was “do whatever the f__k you want, just turn a hefty profit. You must have also missed the meltdown and near collapse of the economy on Bush’s watch. Cause and effect is lost on some folks.
Bitsy I have no idea how old Steve is, but I have a very good idea how old you are, and an even better idea of the holes in your memory.
Remember the late 90’s, early 00’s? When deregulation of the financial markets was all the craze? Remember how that worked out for us? I didn’t think so.
I only wonder how it is that the rest of the western industrialized countries figured out the whole health care conundrum a long time ago and yet we hang onto a “free market” model that no longer exists. (yeah their’s ain’t perfect (and there are many different “theirs”), but they spend a hell of a lot less than we do and still manage to get all of their populace health care)
But we can’t go there because that is “socialism”… I don’t care what you call it, it works better than what we got.
And what is the problem with that?
As Winston Churchill once said (or something to the effect) “America always does the right thing… But only after they have tried everything else.”
To cut to the chase: quit the name calling and answer one simple question:
Does it work?
When it comes to ours, the answer is no.
The Tea Partier throwing contemptuously throwing money at the Parkinson’s disease victim?
Someone should take his precious money and shove it down his despicable throat. Or perhaps a different orifice.
“Perhaps that’s because every time a problem has come up in your lifetime, the answer has invariably been increased government control. You have no experience with things going toward a free market system, away from governmental so you don’t even seriously consider that it will work. You still do not really understand that government isn’t the solution… it’s the PROBLEM.”
Hmm, at 55, I have seen a lot of changes in deregulation. That was part of the Reagan revolution for which I voted. Greenspan has admitted to being a Randian, that he thought banks/businesses would regulate themselves. I saw top tax rates greatly decreased. I saw lobbyists and reps from business hired as regulators and allowed to write the laws under which they work. I saw capital gains taxes decreased and top tax rates cut further.
I agreed with some of those things, but it is very clear that if you let businesses, especially banks, regulate themselves they will engage in too much risk. They will expect us to bail them out. They will engage in rent seeking to make money. They will use their huge profits, not gained by hard work or competition, to influence politics. To buy votes.
I am fine with more free markets. I am not fine with markets owned by a small minority and manipulated for their own ends.
Steve
You’re not REALLY trying to cast Bush as a free-market type are you? As I’ve said for years, Bush was at best a moderate.
Sure it does. Ask any Canadian. LOL.
Eric, Canada is a democracy. If the Canadians wanted to scrap their health system and put in our (soon to be defunct) system, they could. They won’t. Neither will France, Great Britain, Germany, Switzerland, the Netherlands, etc. All of these countries know about the US health care system, and none of them want it. Does that tell you anything?
All this is one of the more fascinating experiences I’ve ever had on-line. I’d write it as a short story but the symmetries would be too perfect to be plausible.
Yesterday we all have a huge blow-up after I suggest that racism is a big part of the motivation of the tea party. (Had I titled the comment it would have been “Tea Party Racists.”)
I am angrily denounced. Primarily by Peter Brimelow (TangoMan) a slithery creature who noted to a racist convention that the Obama administrations was, “A minority occupation government.”
For something like 100 comments good conservatives rallied to Brimelow’s side. In other words, they sided openly with a clear and undeniable racist is expressing their outrage that I had pointed out his clear and undeniable racism.
All while we were discussing whether racism was a problem for the Tea Party and the GOP.
One rarely encounters irony quite that thick in real life.
The next day Joyner writes a post headlined “Tea Party Racists.”
At which point Brimelow and his toadies suddenly fall silent.
Now we are discussing not whether the Tea Party has a race problem but only how big it is.
So, feeling rather vindicated, what with having been completely right, and what with having been the only person there prepared to take the moral position that a known and avowed racist should not be welcomed to Mr. Joyner’s drawing room, I’ll point out the following: you never hear someone yell “F—!” in a room full of nuns.
You know why? Because people read the mood of a room. People use a vocabulary they think will be appropriate and that they think will be sympathetically received.
People use “N—-r” or “Fa–ot” when they feel it’s okay with the people around them. It’s not a foolproof guide, but as a rule a racist moron doesn’t display his racist moronitude unless he feels he is among fellow racist morons.
Which brings us to the Tea Partiers who felt that screaming “N—-r!” at a US Congressman was appropriate behavior.
And it brings us to Brimelow (TangoMan) who felt — accurately as it turns out — that he would find friends and allies here.
When you lie down with dogs you wake up with fleas.
It is time for Republicans to wipe the stink of racists off their party. This does not require the GOP to change even a single substantive position. It doesn’t require you to close a single billionaire’s tax loophole. It just requires you to admit that there is a problem, and then to shun and denounce members of your party who practice or tolerate this mental deformity.
The GOP is the party of Lincoln. Be the party of Lincoln. You will find voters to replace the nuts you lose.
All of these countries know about the US health care system, and none of them want it. Does that tell you anything?
It tells me that countries enjoy the benefits of being free-riders and don’t want to give up the benefits that accrue to them from free-riding.
bitsy: reading is fundemental. I said,
As I recall, Bush was not in office until 2001, ergo, it was a bi-partisan failure. What a partisan hack you are.
Sure, go ahead, ask a Canadian. I have. Hell, I used to live there. You want to know what they have to say? Really? I can tell you if you like…
Nahhh… I didn’t think so. (and if you want, I can tell you what Spaniards think also. My wife is from there and has mucha familia still living there. They have many opinions… all of which “LOL” at you and your fellow tea partiers who continue to ignore 21st century facts while hanging on to 18th century ideals.
Here is a clue: 18th century ideals are great as far as they go….
But sometimes you have to adapt them to 21st century realities.
Try it some time.
I’ve been to a few, and have had a few counter protests at events I’ve planned. (I work for a legislative grassroots campaign, so I run into the tea partiers a lot).
To answer the question: Sometimes its very accurate, most of the time its not. When it is accurate, it is accurate to the extreme.
That is most tea party rallies/counter protests/what have you are polite. Boisterous and loud, yes, but polite.
Sometimes they are quite ugly.
I went to a rally outside of a factory Obama was visiting. Of course there were the usual suspects on both sides, and there was a clear physical border between the right wing and left wing ralliers (rally-ers? Attendees.). Where they two groups met, it was surprisingly civil, often with representatives of each side joshing each other, sharing coffee out of thermoses, and having discussions.
Then I was at a fundraiser for Baron Hill. Outside of that event, self-identified tea partiers were anything but polite. Quite a few insinuated that if Baron Hill were re-elected (and current signs point to yes), perhaps assassination would be a good method of removal. (I believe the phrase used was “We have our own methods of handing out justice.”) These individuals also insinuated that this was a proper method for all left leaning politicians.
So in all, it was a few bad apples that gave the tea partiers in my neck of the woods a bad name. However those bad apples aren’t been tossed out nor censured by the other members of the local tea party coalitions. Or if they are, its not keeping them quiet. That’s a problem, and I believe the idea behind this post by Dr. Joyner. A point that I think has been lost in this discussion.
TangoMan, within an hour the health reform bill will pass. Do you really think its passage will end medical innovation in the US? If so, why did the pharmaceutical industry back the bill? Why did the AMA back it? Why do university researchers back it? And are you really provincial enough to feel that the US is the only country in which meaningful medical research is carried out?
What free ride? Are you trying to say they don’t pay taxes? The fact that you most conveniently ignore is they pay less and get more, and yet still pay for it all. (yes they have problems, but not near what ours are)
Taiwan started a national health care system relatively recently. They did not choose to copy our system. They also did not choose a pure free market system. No country in the world has chosen to initiate a system anything even close to ours.
Steve
I find this a particularly sad episode in what has otherwise been a fabulous blogsite.
As Mr Florack has indicated, he has alot of footage on this mess. I took the opportunity to peruse other sites; I have yet to hear the “n” word.
One would think that if these racial epithets were prominent someone would have them on tape. Very odd. Further, as was discussed in a recent thread, every advocacy group has its nut cases. Even if a racial epithet or two is discovered, generally attributing it to the “Tea Party” movement is intellectually dishonest. Those who do are so identified.
(By the way, if we don’t come across confirmatory evidence, will apologies be forthcoming? Don’t answer, I know.)
In particular, I think Mr. Joyner’s essay was irresponsible, and oddly out of character. “Tea Party Racists” might have escaped scrutiny…….but “some large number” was beyond the pale. No evidence. A sad situation.
As for the commenters, the attackers are the usual losers. As for Mr Reynolds, methinks we protesteth too much.
Not OTB’s finest moment.
What free ride?
How do you imagine drug importation works?
Are you trying to say they don’t pay taxes?
No.
The fact that you most conveniently ignore is they pay less and get more, and yet still pay for it all. (yes they have problems, but not near what ours are)
Look at Canada. It has 151 MRI machines. The US has 10,000 MRI machines. The US population is 9.21 x greater than that of Canada. I can understand Canada paying less, because in this example they have less medical technology to expense, but how on Earth do you imagine that they’re getting more from less? If the US matched the Canadian level of MRI usage, we’d have to scrap 8,610 MRI machines to achieve parity.
Drew:
The House Republican leadership takes the Congressmen involved at their word.
Boehner believes them.
But you, relying on a few shaky home videos, assume men like John Lewis are liars.
John Boehner believes Lewis. Michael Steel believes Lewis. But you don’t.
And I’m the one with a problem?
This usual loser feels left out!
Especially when I read this funny comment:
Well, we can use Occam’s Razor and other tools of common sense. For instance, when faced with an instance of Tea Party racism, we can assume that some nefarious liberal group –ACORN, perhaps– infiltrated the Tea Party with a mole…
Ah, what’s the point? That’s ridiculous. If you’re so unwilling to accept the possibility that there’s racism at these Tea Party events that you have to concoct evidence-free conspiracies to explain it away, then you’re just not thinking clearly.
And the ones holding out for evidence of Tea Party racism…use the Google. Or stop by HuffPost. Those dirty liberals have been cataloging every racist or hysterical Tea Party sign they see. And guess what, they can’t all be the work of ACORN moles!
Ah, what’s the point? That’s ridiculous.
Leftists are masters of false flag maneuvers:
-Leftist activist throws a brick through the front window of the Democratic Office in the hopes of tarnishing Republicans;
-Noose left in building at UCSD by black leftist activist.
-Noose left on office door at Columbia U. by black leftist professor.
-Racial epithets painted on her own car by radical feminist professor at Claremont McKenna College.
There really is a simple calculus at work here – most fiscal conservatives well realize that instances of racism tar their movement, and leftists realize this too. Fiscal conservatives work to eliminate this element; leftist work to shape the narrative.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Taking the word of known racial agitators that they were the victim of slurs doesn’t meet the credibility threshold.
If you want skeptics to discount the notion of false flag tactics then you need to provide independent evidence that the incident occurred, not a press release from a politician. You need to provide details on the arrest of the man who allegedly spit on Cleaver. That’s how you lend credibility to your story that a person or two voiced racist statements.
In the end though, if such evidence is provided, you’re still left confronting the imbalance of a few nutcases who slip between the cracks and join the TEA Party and millions of Democrats voting their racist impulse and voting because the most important criterion for them was the race of the candidate. Voting for someone because they’re black is straight-up racism that is as despicable as condemning someone for their race.
Well, Peter Brimelow, it looks like your side has lost.
Beaten by the untermenschen. Tsk tsk tsk. I can never understand how with your superior Aryan intellects you guys seem to lose so many. World War 2 . . . Civil Rights . . . a black president. Oy.
Or maybe not “Oy.” Maybe more of a “Gott in himmel.”
But don’t despair: immigration reform is coming up soon. That will be great for you. You can use all your best innuendo. You can tell us why multiculturalism is the death of education, and how “we” are being swept away by a brown tide of mud people from south of the border.
Of course you’ll lose. But before you lose you’ll ensure that Democrats keep the Hispanic vote for another generation. So keep up the good work. Guys like you ensure that we get every black vote, every Hispanic vote, every Asian and Jewish vote, and added to every white person under the age of 60 or with an IQ above room temperature, well, that’s a winning coalition.
Time to go put on your Sturmbannfuhrer Underoos, comb out your silver fox hair, and cry softly for the fall of the Pure White Race.
Let me guess, they share that trait with their KGB fellow travelers…
Now where have I heard that term, “racial agitators”, before? Hmm…I do believe it came out of the mouths of segregationists in the South in the 60s…surely this is just a coincidence…
Interested Party:
Yes, just as when he used the phrase “minority occupation government” it was only coincidentally related to the white supremacist’s “Zionist occupation government.”
I did not read all the comments, but any chance these “Tea Party” people were plants to smear the Tea Party…since the media already makes fun of them? A few well placed media stories like this and the Tea Party will NEVER gain traction…which I find decidedly convenient, considering the current political climate.
Whatever, man. If you have evidence of a false flag operation, please share it with us.
Don’t produce “evidence” of false flag operations in other circumstances and expect me to find it compelling here.
Someone put a noose up in an office somewhere? So what? What does that say about liberal moles who have infiltrated the Tea Parties?
In a word: Nothing. Nothing at all.
Let’s review the claims here:
Me: Racial epithets shouted at Tea Party protests are likely to come from Tea Party participants.
You (you didn’t advance the idea, but you apparently think there’s something to it): Racial epithets shouted at Tea Party protests are likely to come from liberal moles out to make Tea Party protesters look bad.
One claim defies credibility, and guess what? It’s not mine!
As for your nonsense about fiscal conservatives working to eliminate the racist element…if that were so, where is your condemnation? All I see is lukewarm excuses (“They’re just a few bad apples,” says the Tea Party sympathizer) and the full-on embrace of frankly ridiculous conspiracy theories.
(False flag operations? Seriously? Gimme a break, man.)
Semi-apropos of the debate about the Tea Party types…
David Frum writes about the Obamacare bill:
Heh. Indeed.
The liberal in me says, “Keep up the good work, Tea Party types!”
The conservative in me says, “The bill could have been improved by some Republican support.”
But alas, the dysfunctional Republican party preferred abject and irreversible defeat to compromise. What’s that say about the intellectual heft and maturity of the movement? A lot…and not much of it good.
Don’t produce “evidence” of false flag operations in other circumstances and expect me to find it compelling here.
Why not? It shows evidence of pattern. It shows evidence of a common goal (make conservatives look racist.)
You don’t have to accept this line of reasoning as a smoking gun, and I don’t, but to argue it is not a valid hypothesis, or not compelling, is daft.
It’s not conclusive, but it is compelling.
Let me turn the tables, why are you simply accepting statements from politicians with a vested interest in advancing such a narrative, statements absent any corroborating evidence? Do you find self-serving statements to be “compelling” evidence because they support your bias?
Many liberals seem to have a driving hunger to see their opponents as racists. I can only guess why that is, discounting mental maladies, I’d say because it reinforces their self-image of being more virtuous and more enlightened. It’s quite a juvenile vision of reality that such folks hold. That probably explains why the news events of blatant racism inevitably are revealed as false flag operations by devious leftists – they need to demonize those who disagree with them and they’ll go so far as to conjure up a fake reality in order to feed their delusion.
As for your nonsense about fiscal conservatives working to eliminate the racist element.
Funny that, I don’t recall seeing leftists condemning Move-on.org as either being entirely comprised of cannibals or being a cannibal-tolerant organization after a Move-on member bit off the finger of a Obamacare opponent.
This juvenile game of tarring an organization can be played from both sides of the fence. Further, at least we have video evidence of liberal cannibalism or human mutilation, whichever you prefer, and we also have statements from investigating police and hospitals. All we have on this recent flare-up are self-serving press releases from politicians.
If you find anything racist in the policy platform that unites various TEA Party groups then share that news with us. Organizations are built around ideas. If there is nothing racist about the TEA Party ideas then there is nothing about TEA Parties that would draw out racists. The funny thing is though, the Democratic Party has built a significant policy platform advocating racism, and it is this racist platform which actually draws liberal racists into the Democratic fold. Racist policy ideas draw racists like flies. Race-neutral policy ideas have no appeal for racists. TEA Party policy ideas are race-neutral.
It does no such thing. You don’t have evidence that a false flag operation even exists, much less “evidence of a pattern” or “evidence of a common goal.”
I see what you’re driving at, though. “Liberals are known for their dirty tricks. So I suspect there may be a dirty trick going on here.” That’s a starting point, though, not an end. And it’s not proof of anything.
As for this: “why are you simply accepting statements from politicians with a vested interest in advancing such a narrative, statements absent any corroborating evidence?”
Oh please…absent any corroborating evidence? There were witnesses! Witnesses count as “corroborating evidence.” It’s not sworn testimony, but it’s not exactly “absent” either.
What evidence do you have that A) Andre Carson is lying, B) John Lewis is lying, C) Barney Frank is lying, or D) that they are deliberately lying to push some false narrative.
No allowance for the possibility that they misheard the chants? (Maybe someone was chanting “Bigger!” and Lewis/Carson heard something else…)
No allowance for the possibility that some jerk-off really did start chanting epithets that multiple people heard?
Nope…we’re going straight to the liberal mole theory. Logic. You’re not using it right.
Ha! I remember that.
The Obamacare opponent punched the cannibal in the nose, a scuffle ensued, and Mr. Threw-the-First-Punch Teabagger lost his pinky.
The lesson here isn’t that liberals are hypocrites and evil cannibals. The lesson here is “Don’t start fights or you might get your ass kicked.”
Although you do have a point here:
That’s why it behooves you guys to remove all mention of race from your signs. Or you can keep going with the African Muslim jokes and then blame the liberals when someone notices. That’s cool, too.
Herb:
In case you’ve missed it, TangoMan is a gentleman named Peter Brimelow who is an actual, real-life white supremacist. He runs his very own racist website and speaks at overtly racist conventions.
So when he gets defensive about being called a racist it’s rather like David Duke taking similar offense.
David Frum writes about the Obamacare bill
I’m of the opinion that pundits should be judged on the accuracy of their predictions, and by that standard Frum is an abject failure. He’s a good writer and turns a witty phrase now and then, but when it comes to understanding the political forces that are in play and charting their future course, he’s pretty worthless. Don’t get me wrong, there are plenty of pundits who run at the mouth and are wrong with their analysis and predictions and appeal to people who simply like having their own biases tickled, so I’m not intending to isolate Frum alone.
I’ll heed the writings of someone who has a record of accurately forecasting events or extracting unique insights from current events, otherwise I’ll trust my own judgment over someone like Frum.
If you’re quoting Frum in this instance can I assume that you affirm most of his positions, or are you simply engaged in finding someone who confirms your bias and therefore you think him wise?
and Mr. Threw-the-First-Punch Teabagger lost his pinky.
The irony here is delicious. You’re coming down on people for possibly using racial slurs and you freely use sexual slurs to demean your ideological opponents. Simply delicious in that “liberals are oblivious to their own foibles” kind of way.
That’s a starting point, though, not an end. And it’s not proof of anything.
I never argued that it was a smoking gun. You raise other good questions. My point is to defend the false flag hypothesis as being a likely scenario and pattern and motivation evidence lends substance to that hypothesis. That’s all. It shouldn’t be dismissed outright. I’m gladdened that we’ve found common ground.
As for corroborating testimony, fine, but there is a complication that is coming to light. The accused party, TEA Party protesters, are now claiming that political aides that were accompanying the politicians through the thicket of protesters were filming the crowd with their cellphones. If this is accurate then they should release the footage of the moment when the slurs were uttered. I’ll believe that rather than what I suspect is coordinated testimony. I’m just a suspicious S.O.B. like that.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
Maybe, but he strikes me more as the type who’d spend all day leaving you with the impression that he’s Peter Brimelow, and then smugly say something like, “Stupid liberals, thinking I’m Peter Brimelow!”
Indeed, I think he probably giggles every time you call him Peter.
My own bias? Dude, I’m an Obama-voting, gay-marriage loving, pro-regulation, anti-war liberal. If I wanted to read things that confirmed my own bias, I wouldn’t read David Frum in the first place, nor would I hang out on OTB.
I prefer a different method…mine the arguments of both sides in search of the best one. That’s why I –a diehard liberal– can read David Frum with an open mind. Why can’t you?
As for accuracy of predictions…this:
is not a prediction. It’s a post-mortem.
Oh, and as for your convenient political correctness. Sorry if I hurt your feelings with my insensitive use of the T word. It hasn’t become as verboten as the N word, but it’s close!
In my defense, any disrespect was completely
unintentional.But it’s not likely at all. And certainly not more likely than the “random jerk in the crowd” hypothesis.
It’s true, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Which is why you should get to work on this false flag hypothesis. Start with…who planned it?
The racism thing seems well-handled. I’m more interested in the “free riding” meme.
Do conservatives notices that they’ve been bait-and-switched into a non-free market position on drug costs? In a free market everyone would negotiate freely with drug companies, and there would not be barriers to trade. In a free market drug companies would probably set a world price which pays for their R&D.
That’s not what we have here. We have a private-public partnership (socialism!) to keep drug prices high, and bizarrely we’ve got mindless conservatives lined up to call it a free market.
The problem wasn’t LETTING banks take too much risk, but FORCING them to by way of legislation designed to buy Democrat votes with loans to their core constituency… people who couldn’t afford loans.
Actually, no, they can’t. Do we have a Democracy here in the states? Did the bill passed last night have overwhelming support? If put to an actual referendum, do you suppose it would ahve passed? The polling data seems to suggest it would have gone down in a ball flames that would make Hindenburg seem like a weenie roast.
Being a Democracy didn’t help keep us out of this mess.
So, explain to us again how the Canadians are thus enable to get themselves out of government healthcare at THEIR desire. Hmmm?
Herb:
Without going into detail I’m pretty sure on this. And by pretty sure I mean 99%.
That’s confidence I can’t quibble with. It’s not that I doubt you.
It’s just that I doubt Tangoman’s ability to embrace American-style spelling. Is it tough to type “unskilled labor,” Tangoman, or do you still find yourself spelling it “labour” from time to time?
Whereas I live in western NY where we see people coming across the border to get the care they can’t get in their own country.
So go ahead, Anjin, tell me about it.
The people acting bad at Tea Party events are infiltrators intending only to make the Tea Party people look bad. Remember “Rules for Radicals”
Recognize it for what it is.
I photographed the 3/20/10 DC Tea Party as a freelance photographer and can say that neither racism nor bigotry characterized that rally, the people or the movement.
The Tea Party movement is focused on issues regarding the direction of our country, not on the color of someone’s skin or their sexual orientation. Any unruly incidents that might have occurred are isolated, and should not be used to impugn the Tea Party movement as a whole.
My latest blog posts (with photos) on the 3/20/10 DC Tea Party include: Are Tea Party Conservatives Racists?, Freedom Dies a Little Bit Today and The People Speak — Will Congress Listen?
A full photo gallery of the 3/20/10 DC Tea Party is coming up in the next post. The Tea Party photos will reveal spirited citizen dissent — not racism or bigotry.
Deb Phillips
Documenting America’s 9|12 Spirit