21 responses to “The Bottom Line on the Debt Ceiling”

1. 

   legion

   December 13, 2012 at 12:14 pm

   Ooooopps. Sorry, Steven. I’m afraid you’ll never get a talking-head gig with sanity like this on your record…
2. 

   john personna

   December 13, 2012 at 12:14 pm

   Related and funny:

   Jon Stewart Goes After McConnell For Filibustering His Own Debt Limit Bill
3. 

   Steven L. Taylor

   December 13, 2012 at 12:18 pm

   @john personna: Yup–that was a remarkable segment.
4. 

   Brummagem Joe

   December 13, 2012 at 12:24 pm

   All true Steven, but all sorts of everyday realities have long been dependant upon rather crazy political conventions.
5. 

   Rob in CT

   December 13, 2012 at 12:26 pm

   At least in the past the debt ceiling was just used for some harmless grandstanding nonsense. That changed last year, and it cannot be allowed to repeat.
6. 

   Steven L. Taylor

   December 13, 2012 at 12:27 pm

   @Brummagem Joe: Indeed, there is an angle here in terms of analyzing actual politics in action. It is a reality that the debt ceiling vote mechanism exists and that it is being cynically used by the GOP and that can be discussed.

   Still: anyone who has a modicum of intellectual honesty has to acknowledge the utter cynicism of it all.
7. 

   David M

   December 13, 2012 at 12:55 pm

   The part I can’t stand is how the discussion of the debt ceiling has morphed into “the president wants to spend more money”, as if it’s him alone doing it. We will hit the debt ceiling due to spending and revenue decisions that Congress has already made, so they should not be able to pretend otherwise.
8. 

   stonetools

   December 13, 2012 at 12:58 pm

   According to Ezra Klein, the Administration is serious about getting rid of the debt ceiling vote mechanism once and for all .

   They’re almost religious about this: They believe they owe it to future generations to break the back of the idea that minority parties can and should play Russian roulette with the economy.

   AMEN. The Administration needs to shoot the debt ceiling gambit with a silver bullet, drive a stake through its heart, cut off its head, bury it in a garlic-filled coffin, and sow the ground with salt.
9. 

   john personna

   December 13, 2012 at 1:03 pm

   @David M:

   In the video above, McConnell was indeed grandstanding, saying that Obama is asking for an “unlimited authority to borrow whatever he wants to”
10. 

    scott

    December 13, 2012 at 1:08 pm

    I choose prevarication
11. 

    de stijl

    December 13, 2012 at 1:15 pm

    We must not allow the 2011 debt limit hostage crisis to become a habit. I fear that congressional Republicans do not agree with me. If they pursue the same monkeyshines they did last time, they need to get slapped down. Hard. Hard enough to learn the lesson to eff around with financial catastrophe on purpose.
12. 

    Mikey

    December 13, 2012 at 1:38 pm

    It is utter foolishness that the mechanism exists at all.

    It is an odd anachronism. But before it was instituted (in 1917, from what I was able to find), Congress had to hold a separate vote for every instance of borrowing. Can you imagine this kind of silliness every time Congress wanted to borrow so much as a dollar?

    Also, according to the Wiki, the only other nation that has such a debt ceiling is Denmark and theirs is so high they’ll probably never reach it.
13. 

    Scott F.

    December 13, 2012 at 1:43 pm

    It’s cowardice, plain and simple. The same cowardice that has the Republicans refusing to name the cuts to entitlements they want or the tax deductions they would eliminate.

    The fact is the GOP refuses to say exactly what they mean by limited government, because they fear having to truly fight for what they profess to believe. One could conclude they don’t really believe what they say.
14. 

    Tsar Nicholas

    December 13, 2012 at 2:02 pm

    Not only is this a giant dog & pony show arguably it’s the dumbest dog & pony show in recent memory, which is saying something.

    But rules are rules and although they’re optional in academic circles they’re not really optional in legislative circles. And politics is not a game of hearts. We do have a debt ceiling. And politicians are trying to use it to their advantage. Not precisely good cause for high dudgeon mode.
15. 

    John D’Geek

    December 13, 2012 at 2:12 pm

    @Mikey:

    It is an odd anachronism.

    Concur. It was put in there to control federal spending, but we can all see how well that worked …
16. 

    David M

    December 13, 2012 at 2:16 pm

    @Tsar Nicholas:

    We do have a debt ceiling. And politicians are trying to use it to their advantage. Not precisely good cause for high dudgeon mode.

    Except their debt ceiling posturing has real world implications which shouldn’t be ignored. The politicians talking about not raising the debt ceiling were saying that our government was not going to honor its debt obligations any longer. That’s a pretty radical position to take, and mind-numbingly irresponsible, even for the GOP.
17. 

    Steven Taylor

    December 13, 2012 at 2:21 pm

    @Tsar Nicholas:

    But rules are rules and although they’re optional in academic circles they’re not really optional in legislative circles

    A. Clearly, you are utterly unfamiliar with academia

    And more importantly

    B. One of the cool features of rule created by legislatures is that those selfsame legislatures can change said rules. Or perhaps you are unfamiliar with that concept as well?
18. 

    jukeboxgrad

    December 13, 2012 at 4:05 pm

    steven:

    Pretending like the debt ceiling is actually has anything to do with the debt obligations of the United States is pure ignorance, cowardice, and/or prevarication.

    Yes, especially since H.Con.Res. 112 (“Concurrent Resolution on the Budget for Fiscal Year 2013”) calls for a total of $3,127B in deficits for the period 2013-2022. This bill was sponsored by Ryan and passed by the GOP House on 3/29/12. 96% of the Rs in the House voted for this bill. Link, link.

    So the GOP passed a budget calling for $3T in new debt, and is now taking the position that the debt limit should not go up. Yes, this is the ultimate in cowardice and hypocrisy.

    There is a recent Matt Miller column making this point (link):

    Given that Republicans all voted for $6 trillion in new debt in their budget last year, I think most Americans would agree its hypocritical for them not to raise the ceiling now.

    I think he’s using a different number because he’s looking at a different vote, but the basic point is the same.
19. 

    jukeboxgrad

    December 13, 2012 at 4:19 pm

    Pinning down one number is kind of confusing.

    The Ryan budget is here (pdf). Scroll to page 88 in your pdf reader. He indicates that “Debt Held by Public” is $11,355B in 2012 and $15,364B in 2022. The difference between those two numbers is $4,009B. I’m not sure if that matches up correctly with the numbers in the bill I cited.
20. 

    Ben Wolf

    December 13, 2012 at 5:17 pm

    @Steven Taylor

    The debt ceiling was a necessity of the Bretton Woods system. Once the gold-backed dollar became the international reserve currency a mechanism was needed to ensure too many dollars were not in circulation, so at times the Treasury would sell securities as authorized by the Congress to drain any excess and maintain the required dollar-to-gold relationship. Unfortunately, gold-standard thinking has continued since Nixon closed the gold window in 1971, and we are still saddled with the legacy of of a monetary system which no longer exists.
21. 

    Curtis

    December 13, 2012 at 5:21 pm

    It used to be, I think, that anytime Congress passed a budget that called for borrowing, they simultaneously passed an increase in the debt ceiling to accomodate that borrowing.

    It is silly that we have a debt ceiling, but while we do, we are going to need to raise it from time to time. But we should at least force all appropriations that require borrowing to include authorization for that borrowing.