Belligerent Denial and Obstinant Lies
The unsurprising response to the Signal debacle.
So, it will shock no one reading this that the response from the administration to the revelation that high level officials, including the Vice President, National Security Adviser, and Secretary of Defense, were using Signal to share classified military plans about Yemen is to lie and deny.
Here’s the Secretary of Defense with an angry non-denial denial.
Side-note: it always strikes me the degree to which he almost always speaks in military/defense clichés and buzzwords while saying almost nothing.
And here’s the White House Press Secretary lying about the content off the text chain (which has, as the community note above notes, has been confirmed to have contained what was claimed).
I currently cannot insert screenshots, so here’s the full text:
Jeffrey Goldberg is well-known for his sensationalist spin. Here are the facts about his latest story:
1. No “war plans” were discussed.
2. No classified material was sent to the thread.
3. The White House Counsel’s Office has provided guidance on a number of different platforms for President Trump’s top officials to communicate as safely and efficiently as possible.
As the National Security Council stated, the White House is looking into how Goldberg’s number was inadvertently added to the thread.
Thanks to the strong and decisive leadership of President Trump, and everyone in the group, the Houthi strikes were successful and effective. Terrorists were killed and that’s what matters most to President Trump.
The ongoing need to smear Goldberg instead of taking responsibility is a substantial commentary on the character of those in this administration, by the way. Both Hegseth and Leavitt engage in that manner.
I guess since we weren’t legally at “war” with the Houthis, #1 is technically correct in a very narrow sense. #2 seems to almost certainly be an outright lie. #3 may well be true, but either it happened after this event or if it happened before, Signal was not on the list for this kind of activity.
The best part is “the White House is looking into how Goldberg’s number was inadvertently added to the thread,” which confirms that, yes, Goldberg was added accidentally to a list of high level official discussion US defense policy.
The North Korean Propaganda Minister’s praise of the Great Leader as part of the discourse is a nice touch.
That people should lose their jobs over this is obvious. That I am not sure that anyone will is just another indicator of how poorly run the federal executive branch is at the moment.
If anyone goes, it will likely be Waltz, and as I understand it it, he is not considerate a true MAGAista by some of the faithful, making this an opportunity to get rid of him.
Hegseth has to because he really doesn’t know the job. This was evident even before he got the job.
BTW. All we hear about is DEI this and DEI that. That merit is the priority, not identity. It is clear that these clowns were not chosen, nominated, and confirmed based on merit but rather their MAGA identity. Every accusation is a confession.
But her emails….
You have to think that any terrorists out there, with the US in their sights, are stepping up their planning process.
Hegseth is speaking directly to Trump via Fox, and hitting the high notes in Trump lore–Russia, the fine people hoax.
I also think it’s unwise to lionize competence when it comes to American foreign policy. Like the functional alcoholics who busted their asses through the night gave us the Bay of Pigs and Vietnam. That said, they’re all eyeball-deep in trying to sound like they are on top of things or there’s a logical basis for anything Trump orders. It’s like a group chat organizing the very successful air campaign to support the Sixth Army at Stalingrad ending with a thumbs up emoji from Goering.
@Scott:
Of course they were. Recall that the first question they were asked while being vetted was: “Do you believe that Trump won the 2020 election?” If you replied “yes,” you were in.
Hesgeth will get a promotion. Super Secretary of Defense and First Kisser of the Orange Ass.
I don’t think Hegseth will ever admit that he provided classified information on the Signal chat. Because that would mean he moved classified information from a secure network to a non-secure device, which is a clear violation of the law. And he further disseminated that information in a non-secure environment. And he did it all intentionally.
The administration may think they can ride this out with denials because Jeffrey Goldberg will not publish what he believes may be classified information–so there will never be written proof of the classified nature of the chat.
There’s no world where the Trump administration can overtly punish anyone for a security breach that Hegseth flatly denied ever happened.
a couple of points: (1) I expect any ‘apology’ to be along the lines of ‘the Biden Administration set-up this flawed Signal system of communicating classified military plans. We’re going to clean-up another Biden mess.’
(2) I finally understand what ‘Drunk Texting’ is.
Leavitt’s last graf is the key:
Terrorists are dead because Trump is strong. The brand is reinforced. Nothing else matters.
Inviting a journalist to a super-secret classified chat on a publicly available app of uncertain security may be an accident.
Holding said super-secret classified chat on a publicly available app of uncertain security is not.
By now every intelligence service in the world has either broken Signal’s encryption, is working on doing so, or has decided it can’t be broken (I don’t know enough to say*). So what now? they switch to Telegram or Whatsapp?
*Breaking a code may involve actions like paying the people who implement for information or directions.
Another thing. If so many of the fascist regime are pissed that their unilateral actions benefit Europe, they can always arrange multilateral actions instead.
Going it alone and complaining others benefit, don’t help, don’t pay, etc., is just a self-own that looks hypocritical when they even complain about it (because it is).
@Kathy: Any code like this can theoretically be broken. It’s more of a question of how fast can you do it? Worst case is probably 10,000 years (given the current level of processing power available). I don’t know the specifics of Signal, but it might be that or it might be 3 months. I doubt its easier than that.
There is a style of code that can’t be broken, a “one-time pad”. That cannot be used for a digital application, though. So that’s not in play.
My guess is that the 2-3 months timeline is probably what’s in play, but it’s just a SWAG.
Who is being spoonfed the ideological twists now emerging from his policy in squirts and gaseous outbursts.
It bears repeating that DEI is[was] the implementation of the Civil Rights Act, and ensures the best person of any color is hired. DEI hired a competent non-white over a less competent white.
The reason Republicans have a problem with DEI is because they’re racist – full stop.
@Gavin: I’m not saying you’re wrong. However, I think a better frame is that Republicans have a problem with DEI because it keeps them out of the best jobs, because they can’t compete.
@Gavin:
Lee Atwater was right that they can’t shout “n-clang, n-clang, n-clang” anymore. With a lot of help from asshats like Chris Rufo, Trump stumbled across that he can shout, “DEI, DEI, DEI” and it works just as well. The more things change …
@Jay L Gischer:
If they discuss methods, if they argue about decisions and objectives, etc., decryption months later is still valuable intelligence for adversary/enemy nations.
Jay, the addendum is Republicans know they only maintain power/seniority by using their network —– while at the same time promoting individualism / Pulling Yourself Up By Your Bootstraps so as to assert to the naive/gullible that they aren’t using a network. The idea was that if they use a network while everyone else is an individual, they maintain a [slight] advantage.
Once they saw even the old-school methods weren’t working due to actually being judged on merit because of DEI policies, well, the DEI has to go.
Why would anyone even consider a person who topped out as a ANG Major as Secretary of Defense? Is this crazytown?
And the Senate approved?!
Nothing wrong with serving in the Army National Guard. Nothing wrong with topping out as a Major. Decent career. But, you are utterly unqualified to lead the Defense Department.
Oh, yeah, I forgot. He was an obnoxious blowhard talking head on Fox News? And Trump liked the cut of his jib.
We might be fucked.
How soon is 2029?
@de stijl:
One eternity, two eons, four epochs, three years and some months from now.
give or take an eon.
It’s been reported since the beginning that top Cabinet members are using Signal for government business. It’s safe to assume that by now, Signal is already compromised by our enemies and allies alike. It would be foolish of them not to, if these dumbasses are gonna just leave it out in the open like that.
I am sticking to my guns as to what makes a punchier line as far as politics go.
“MAGAs hate DEI because they can’t compete on an equal footing with the best minority candidates”.
Go right at them. See how they try to counter. It isn’t going to play well. And now we have Pete Hegseth as our poster boy.
@Gavin: That isn’t wrong. It isn’t all that valuable as a political approach, though. Because social networks are ubiquitous and aren’t going away soon.
Now, every single Trump administration appointee answered the question, “Was the 2020 election stolen?” with “Yes”. Which is why we have such a competence deficit. Some are true believers, some are grifters that see opportunity. None of them have any devotion to facts or truth, and this will sink them, while doing a lot of damage, sad to say.
But they claim they are making government more competent by scrubbing DEI. Go right at that. It is false. It is garbage, and becoming apparent. They are making government worse by bringing in second-rate white people, who are not up to standard.
In case any of you all missed this …
https://bsky.app/profile/drfranksauer.bsky.social/post/3ll5qeiqtx22m
@de stijl: How soon is 2029?
1/1/29 is 125.273 Scaramuccis (or Mooches) from today
A Scaramucci (or Mooch) is 11 (sometimes 10) days and is na
med after the length of White House Communications Director Anthony Scaramucci’s tenure under President Trump.
This is from the Wikipedia page of the List of humorous units of measurement (yes, the page really exists, thank God for the internet).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_humorous_units_of_measurement
@Lucysfootball:
I thought a “scaramooch” lasted as long as the Wayne’s World Bohemian Rhapsody sing along / head bang bit.
IOW, about 30, maybe 40 seconds.
It’s party time, it’s excellent.
How long does it take to do the Fandango?
@Lucysfootball:
You know absolute zero is the lowest possible temperature. it’s 0 K or -273 C.
I propose defining absolute incompetence, meaning the highest possible level of incompetence, as 1 Hegseth. It is equal to 1 Vance, 1 Waltz, and 1 Gabbard.
@de stijl:
We could have easily had a base 10 time system. But the Mesopotamian / Greek base 12 won out.
Isn’t it sorta bizarre that there are not competing time differentiation methods? Why is it all base 12 essentially worldwide?
Don’t even get me started on geometry angles. Granted it works, but so unintuitive.
BTW, the felon is now claiming nothing in the leaked chat was classified. Therefore, the Atlantic ought to publish all it has in its entirety to prove him right.
(This is when you get deja vu while getting deja vu.)
@de stijl:
Depends on the length of the song it’s done to, just like the Hustle.
Twelve is one of those magic numbers that people have an affinity for.
I can think of these offhand, there must be more:
Signs of the Zodiac
(the Chinese Zodiac also)
Gods/goddesses on Mount Olympus
Tribes of Israel
Jesus disciples
etc.
@Kathy:
They should send a preprint copy to the administration, and ask if anything needs to be redacted. Because classified information should not be casually released, not even to make a point.
Let the administration redact or sue to prevent publication.
@Joe:
The security breach itself will be deemed classified, and any denials are just part of the secrecy. Also, clearly Jeffrey Goldberg is a hacker.
You’re also assuming that there is any level of logical consistency.
@Jay L Gischer:
“Even the most secure messaging apps are only as safe as the context in which they’re used, said Steve Grobman, chief technology officer at McAfee, the online protection company. “For everyday users, it’s a reminder to treat messaging apps with care.”
If you have Signal on your cellphone, and your phone is hacked, a cybercriminal could be monitoring what you type into the app. If you lose your phone, a bad actor could potentially copy the data stored within, including the encrypted stuff.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2025/03/25/how-safe-is-signal-hegseth-leak/82652069007/
I know Doc J and Doc T require us to be decent in our comments, so, at the risk of being smacked: I’ll bet not na’ry one of these fvkg idiots was in a SCIF while transmitting these messages. An adversary doesn’t have to hack Signal’s code; they just have to hack one of these dumbasses’ phone.
Whiskey Pete, undoubtedly coached while on the plane, shot the messenger while laughably denying the obvious. Just as interesting was “the SM account” (Stephen Miller) obsession with getting Egypt and Europe to pay for this “service,” because it revealed the foreign affairs mindset of the Trump Clown Car: No quid? No quo. Nothing will ever be done because it is the right thing to do. Felonious Don has to get a piece of the action.
@charontwo:
A thing I’ve heard, don’t know if it’s valid or proven, or not:
Fold your thumb in and count the bones in your pointy fingers. 12. Ergo, base 12.
Maybe. Seems a bit on the nose. I’m dubious. We can’t know.
Had they included the thumb, we’d’ve had a 28 hour day.
@just nutha:
I have bad memories of 6th grade me having to learn the Hustle in PE right before our first ever dance.
Not the way you think – I was naturally pretty good at it. People, boys, in my age cohort gave me “f****t” nonsense crap because I didn’t suck at rhythmic movement to music.
@charontwo:
@de stijl:
12 is evenly divisible by 2,3,4, and 6. Multiples of 12 tend to be divisible by these factors, plus the multipliers used and some others.
This means a dozen of something can be divided in halves, thirds, and quarters easily, and so can a gross (a dozen dozens), and so can an hour (60 minutes = 5*12).
@Scott: Remember that the man is a talking head, and at a ‘news corporation’ which is notorious for lies. He’s also a drunk, and ran two organizations into the ground.
If the info on the group chat is not classified, is it now subject to the Freedom of Information Act. And has any news or other organization filed to obtain that info under FOIA?
@Jay L Gischer: “My guess is that the 2-3 months timeline is probably what’s in play, but it’s just a SWAG.”
The phones could be hacked (from what I gather, not difficult for a state agency) or that guy in Russia could have been in a bugged room.
@charontwo:
12 Days of Christmas
12 Imams
12 months in a year
12 hues in the color wheel
Lotta twelves. It seems to be significant in all cultures.
@Kathy:
He also claimed he didn’t have classified materials stored in the shitter of his tacky wedding venue.
@DeD:
This is absolutely accurate and on the money. I think we should expect adversary states, perhaps even “friendly” states (Israel, I’m looking at you, but you maybe aren’t the only one) to be attempting to compromise Pete Hegseth’s personal smartphone.
For instance, Jeff Bezos’ smartphone got compromised, and they tried to blackmail him with stuff they got. It is absolutely possible, and might have already happened.
I was merely trying to answer a more specific technical question about how long the sorts of encryption that Signal uses take to break.
But with a compromised phone, it doesn’t take anything to break it. It’s breathtaking how negligent this is. Absolutely breathtaking.
@Charley in Cleveland: Say what you will (and I feel your pain and frustration–well sort of, anyway) but what administration has ever before brought us nicknames and terminology the likes of “Whiskey Pete,” and “DUI hire” and “the SM account?” Not to mention the day-on-day clown show operations and procedures.
Ford signed the Metric Conversion Act when I was in elementary school.
We had lessons. An inch is 2.54 centimeters. A meter is roughly a yard, more or less. We were given these handy conversion equivalents. At that age I basically understood length in the US Imperial system, but had no problem converting.
12 inches to a foot, three feet to a yard, 5280 feet to mile (1760 yards). Ounces, pounds, acres. Extremely dumb system! I got it because I was raised with it. You just sort of internalize the system you are raised under. It happens automatically.
At the time I had no issue with the metric conversion. On board.
The only thing that was difficult was Fahrenheit to Celsius. I know what 90F feels like, 70F, 50F, 10F, -20F. Temperature was the tripper-upper thing for me. Everything else made sense, relatively intuitively.
Then Reagan came along and “yoink” – yeah, we’re not doing this.
About a fifth of my elementary and middle school education was invalidated immediately. Thanks, asshole!
But they are all base 10! It’s so easy! (Except Celsius)
@Daryl:
Didn’t Trump say he declassified those documents by “thinking about it”?
@Kathy: “BTW, the felon is now claiming nothing in the leaked chat was classified.”
But his cabinet members weren’t willing to testify to that today to the Senate Intelligence Committee (well, Gabbard was willing but later changed her testimony). CIA Dir Ratcliffe started out with a weasel-worded statement that he didn’t provide any classified information in the chat, and later said that he couldn’t say whether or not the DoD-provided info in the chat was classified.
DNI Gabbard’s testimony was a mess. She refused to answer whether or not she participated in the Signal chat at all, and later refused to answer whether she used her personal phone or a government device. She did acknowledge she was overseas at the time. She testified throughout that there was no classified information discussed in the chat, but walked that back at the end when prompted by Tom Cotton.
Both Ratcliffe and Gabbard answered a series of questions from Mark Kelly, which were on the general nature of the military information provided in the chat, with “I don’t know” and “I don’t recall.” In the end, both Ratcliffe and Gabbard deferred to Hegseth (not present) on whether parts of the Signal chat were classified.
This is the part where Angus King and Mark Warner reacted (King responded first) to Gabbard changing her testimony late in the hearing:
Warner: I appreciate your comments but you guys have both testified under law there’s nothing classified in that information, there’s nothing. In a sense I’ve not heard any either one of you say gosh we screwed up so we’ll find out. This is too important to our national security uh and again I know we’ve got more members to close.
Cotton: They testified, is my understanding, correct me if I’m wrong, that there’s no intelligence community classified information. Is that correct, Director Ratcliffe?
Ratcliffe: That’s correct.
Cotton: Is that correct, Director Gabbard?
Gabbard: Yes, chairman.
King (interjecting): That’s not correct! She said repeatedly there’s nothing classified, period!
@de stijl:
Actually, it was base 60 — the sexagesimal system. They chose 60 because it is evenly divisible by 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6, not to mention 10, 12, and 15. When you haven’t invented the decimal system yet, even divisibility makes everything easier.
There’s a cuneiform tablet that has been deciphered to show the Babylonian equivalent of trig tables for calculating angles, using only triangles with whole-number side lengths.
And so it begins:
It’s late and few of you will see this, but there’s more coming out now.
First, Steve Witkoff, the administrations emissary to the Middle East and Ukraine, was in Moscow, according to flight plans. CBS is reporting this.
In Moscow, talking on an poorly secured app.
Second, it turns out that a month ago, the NSA sent out a bulletin that they had identified a vulnerability in Signal. “The bulletin warned of Russian professional hacking groups employing phishing scams to gain access to encrypted conversations, bypassing the end-to-end encryption the application uses.”
I’ll bet it warned of other things, too.
I know it’s kind of late to bring this up, but it’s still bugging me 24 hours later…
There’s no such word as “obstinant.”
The word in the headline should be “obstinate.”
As somebody once said:
“The truth is, these aren’t very bright guys…”
Jay L Gischer:
I rather suspect DGSE is realying the take to friendlies, between bouts of hysterical laughter.
While GCHQ is probably currently standing off (for now) and raising an ironic eyebrow at US liaison officers.
What a bunch of utter dorks.