Republicans Stand To Lose If We Go Over the Fiscal Cliff

Outside the Beltway

By Matt H. Wade at Wikipedia, CC BY-SA 3.0

Republicans Stand To Lose If We Go Over the Fiscal Cliff

Doug Mataconis

December 4, 2012

Comments

Another poll shows that Republicans would get most of the blame if the nation went over the fiscal cliff:

Washington (CNN) - A second national poll indicates more Americans would blame Congressional Republicans than President Barack Obama if negotiations to keep the country from falling off the “fiscal cliff” fail.

A Washington Post/Pew Research Center survey released Tuesday morning also indicates 49% of Americans predict the president and Republicans in Congress will not reach an agreement to prevent the automatic spending cuts and tax increases that would kick in at the end of the year, with four in ten saying a deal will be reached.

(…)

If there’s no deal, according to the poll, by a 53%-27% margin people say Congressional Republicans will be more at blame than Obama, with 12% saying both sides should be equally blamed. Among independent voters, 52% would blame Republicans and 21% would point fingers at the president.

A CNN/ORC International survey released last week indicated more Americans would blame the GOP in Congress (45%) rather than Obama (34%) if the fiscal cliff provisions actually go into effect next year.

Republicans are playing a dangerous game here.

63 responses to “Republicans Stand To Lose If We Go Over the Fiscal Cliff”

mantis

December 4, 2012 at 12:34 pm

Republicans ~~Stand~~ Deserve To Lose If We Go Over the Fiscal Cliff

FTFY
john personna

December 4, 2012 at 1:02 pm

Mandate.
LaMont

December 4, 2012 at 1:07 pm

Republicans are playing a dangerous game here.

Is it so hard to believe that the republicans are willing to play this type of game? You’re talking about the same party that literally created the “fiscal cliff” in order to force THEMSELVES to deal – then failed to come up with an agreement. Add the fact that they are mostly responsible for the manufactured crisis of the debt ceiling, which caused the credit downgrade of Standard & Poors, you’d have to assume at this point that House Republicans WILL continue to be reckless!
Dean Chambers

December 4, 2012 at 1:09 pm

Republicans aren’t screwed because the polls are skewed!
(and if I take off my sox I can count to fifteen…twenty…damn what’s after twenty?)
Ron Beasley

December 4, 2012 at 1:17 pm

Republicans, especially in the House, are the equivalent of suicide bombers. They are so driven by ideology they are willing to blow themselves up along with the country.
Tsar Nicholas

December 4, 2012 at 1:30 pm

Monkey see, monkey do.

That aside, the tragic irony of this entire dog & pony show — given the hard left-wing bent of the media-academe-Internet cabal — is that so many elephants in the room continue to be missed.

For example:

We’ve been waging the “war on poverty” for over 45 years. We’ve sacrificed trillions of taxpayer dollars. We’ve socially engineered the workplace. We’ve socially engineered housing. We’ve socially engineered the tax code. The federal government in essence has turned into a cross between Robin Hood and the Pied Piper.

Yet in a result nearly as “surprising” as high rates of poverty, crime, murder, dropouts and unemployment, in big liberal cities controlled for decades by liberal Democrats, the poverty rate today nearly is identical to the poverty rate that prevailed in 1965.

So at what point in time will we disengage from this intractable quagmire?
wr

December 4, 2012 at 2:19 pm

@Tsar Nicholas: “Monkey see, monkey do.

That aside, the tragic irony of this entire dog & pony show — given the hard left-wing bent of the media-academe-Internet cabal — is that so many elephants in the room continue to be missed.”

Do you think the Tsar is getting made that no one has realized that he posts as a parody of bad right-wing writing, and he’s posted this so that there’s no way we can miss it anymore?
wr

December 4, 2012 at 2:20 pm

Of course, that was wondering about the Tsar getting mad, no made.
wr

December 4, 2012 at 2:24 pm

@Tsar Nicholas: “Yet in a result nearly as “surprising” as high rates of poverty, crime, murder, dropouts and unemployment, in big liberal cities controlled for decades by liberal Democrats, the poverty rate today nearly is identical to the poverty rate that prevailed in 1965.”

Of course, that final statistic isn’t true. But even if it was, we might want to look at the poverty rates in years between the passage of Johnson’s anti-poverty programs and the Reagan revolution, when the Republicans started dismantling them (with some eager, later help from “new Democrats” like Bill Clinton).
stonetools

December 4, 2012 at 2:34 pm

The Republicans created this “crisis” by acting like horses’ a$$es back at the time of the debt ceiling negotiations. They turned down a good offer, betting that they would win it all in the 2012 elections. Well, their bet blew up in their faces, and everybody knows it.
They know it too. Their counter offer is essentially what they offered last year.

But it’s essentially identical to what he offered in his talks with Obama, and to what Bowles offered Republicans during the supercommittee talks. Which is understandable. Those deals must be looking pretty good to Boehner about now.

There were many who advised Republicans to take those deals in 2011. Democrats were back on their heels, and they were offering up more than most observers had believed possible. At the New York Times, David Brooks called it “an astonishing concession” and said that “If the Republican Party were a normal party, it would take advantage of this amazing moment.”

Well, the Republicans aren’t a normal party, and I expect them to keep on with the stupid. I’m betting we go over the cliff, and that the Republicans will screw themselves and maybe the country over this.
Jenos Idanian #13

December 4, 2012 at 4:08 pm

I’d say that a lot of Americans “stand to lose” if we go over the fiscal cliff, but that’s because I’m not a hyperpartisan jackwagon who sees everything as a political game.

The hyperpartisan jackwagons (see above) make it abundantly clear that they are far more concerned that the “right” side gets the blame than the crisis be averted. In fact, they seem positively gleeful that the blame for the disastermight be put on Republicans, and not thinking at all about avoiding the disaster in the first place.

“Never let a crisis go to waste.”
Unsympathetic

December 4, 2012 at 5:19 pm

@Jenos Idanian #13:

Republicans created the crisis.

Republicans want to avoid the crisis? Vote for Obama’s plan. Otherwise? It’s on you.

Deal with it.
Jenos Idanian #13

December 4, 2012 at 5:33 pm

@Unsympathetic: Thank you for demonstrating my point so well.
Unsympathetic

December 4, 2012 at 5:40 pm

@Jenos Idanian #13:

Republicans refuse to propose a plan.

Therefore Republicans have two options: Bring on the cliff – or approve Obama’s plan.

By your own admission, “the cliff” has many negative results. So, Republicans should vote for Obama’s plan – if they actually cared about any American who makes less than $10 million dollars per year.

Instead, Republicans are nothing but hyperpartisan jackwagons.
Jenos Idanian #13

December 4, 2012 at 5:46 pm

@Unsympathetic: You missed it, jackwagon — the Republicans did put out a plan, and a far more realistic one than Obama’s. Hell, it was derived from Obama’s own debt commission report.

You probably don’t remember that one — Obama picked a bipartisan commission to make recommendations, then took their report and threw it right down the crapper.
JKB

December 4, 2012 at 5:53 pm

Of course, the congressional Republicans don’t answer to national polls but rather they answer to their districts voters. And it is 2 years before another election and it is highly unlikely the next Republican presidential nominee will come from the congressional Republicans.

So what are they going to lose? The good reports of the democrat operatives with bylines?

They should stick with repealing the Hollywood tax cuts, limiting to a reasonable max the mortgage interest deduction, imposing a surtax on the first 5 years of excessive earnings on government employees who move to the private sector.
David M

December 4, 2012 at 6:20 pm

@Jenos Idanian #13:

Obama picked a bipartisan commission to make recommendations, then took their report and threw it right down the crapper.

Bowles-Simpson did not produce anything, the committee was unable to approve the final plan.
wr

December 4, 2012 at 8:04 pm

@Jenos Idanian #13: “I’d say that a lot of Americans “stand to lose” if we go over the fiscal cliff, but that’s because I’m not a hyperpartisan jackwagon who sees everything as a political game.”

Thanks, Jay. That is probably the funniest thing I’ve read in a year. Bless you.
wr

December 4, 2012 at 8:06 pm

@JKB: “imposing a surtax on the first 5 years of excessive earnings on government employees who move to the private sector”

So you want to fire most of the government workforce, and then put an extra tax on them when they’re finally able to get a job in the private sector?

You just moved up a notch in my estimation. From sociopath to psychopath.
An Interested Party

December 4, 2012 at 9:48 pm

…given the hard left-wing bent of the media-academe-Internet cabal…

The good reports of the democrat operatives with bylines?

Nice to see that the Whiny Ass Titty Baby Tour continues at full steam…

The hyperpartisan jackwagons (see above) make it abundantly clear that they are far more concerned that the “right” side gets the blame than the crisis be averted.

There’s no way that could have been typed with a straight face, unless the typist completely lacks self-awareness…
bill

December 4, 2012 at 10:38 pm

@Ron Beasley: the country’s going to implode, it’s just a matter of who’s side you’re on. drastic spending cuts are the only realistic way to postpone it for few years, pass the costs onto the states and rattle some cages. it’s not like obama has an answer, and he’s not expected to as it’ll always be someone elses fault.
bill

December 4, 2012 at 10:54 pm

53% agree, ironic! the same amount that reelected him- and can’t find any fault with him either. brilliant. any articles on what “his” plan is and how it will be paid for? – aside from the laughable tax increase on 2% of taxpayers that will net us a drop of water in a sea of debt. i thought so…….
Jenos Idanian #13

December 4, 2012 at 11:14 pm

Yet more affirmation that the leftists here don’t give two craps about the Americans who will be hurt by the fiscal cliff — only that they can make sure the Republicans get blamed. And that they really, really hate it when it’s pointed out.

Let me rephrase that. You don’t like it when it’s pointed out.
David M

December 4, 2012 at 11:27 pm

@Jenos Idanian #13:

The GOP refuse to compromise and act responsibly, why shouldn’t it be pointed out what they are doing?
Jenos Idanian #13

December 4, 2012 at 11:50 pm

@David M: I have no where you got your definitions of “compromise” and “responsibly,” but the GOP proposal was far more “responsible” than Obama’s.

The left’s proposals all focus on raising the tax rates than increasing revenues, and promise the cuts some point down the road. That says that focus isn’t on fixing the problem, but making sure the “right” people get punished.

Oh, and let’s not forget Obama’s demand that Congress render unto him the authority to set the debt ceiling as he deems fit. Funny how no one wants to defend that, either.

The GOP’s plan actually takes major steps towards reducing the debt. But since that isn’t the Democrats’ top priority — “punishing” the rich and hurting the Republicans is — the chances of them actually looking at it honestly is… well, about the chance of the commentariat here doing the same.
anjin-san

December 4, 2012 at 11:53 pm

Say Jenos, did you know that Obama ate dog?
anjin-san

December 5, 2012 at 12:14 am

Which is lamer… Jenos saying “jackwagon” every 12 seconds, or bitheads pathetic use of “casterati”?
Jenos Idanian #13

December 5, 2012 at 12:15 am

@anjin-san: If we go over that cliff, he probably won’t be the only one. And I hear Hillary eats… no, better not go there.

I heard one interesting idea — the GOP has Obama’s plan come up for a vote, and simply votes “present.” Bill passes with purely Democratic votes. Then, when it fails (as it must), the blame gets correctly assigned — on the Democrats.

But that’s just playing the game back. That’s no solution.
Jenos Idanian #13

December 5, 2012 at 12:22 am

@anjin-san: Amazing. All those attempts to change the subject, and he has yet to bring up Iraq. You’re slipping, chum.

And “jackwagon” is courtesy R. Lee Ermey. I think it’s a wonderful little neologism that lets me avoid profanities and vulgarities. But if you don’t care for it, how about “jackhole?”

Come on, anjin. Argue that Obama’s proposal should be taken at least somewhat seriously. Tell us how Obama setting the debt ceiling is really a wonderful thing.

Actually, it wouldn’t have been so bad — if that authority was given to the Obama of 2006:

The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies. … Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that ‘the buck stops here. Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better.

But that was the same Obama who opposed gay marriage and wanted to close down Guantanamo, among other things. What the hell happened to him?
David M

December 5, 2012 at 2:45 am

@Jenos Idanian #13:

Oh, and let’s not forget Obama’s demand that Congress render unto him the authority to set the debt ceiling as he deems fit.

This is why we don’t take the GOP seriously, absolute nonsensical garbage like this. The debt ceiling is dumb and should not exist, and your description of the request indicates you really don’t understand it at all.
anjin-san

December 5, 2012 at 4:02 am

Argue that Obama’s proposal should be taken at least somewhat seriously.

I think I will just leave you as you are – an unpaid Boehner parrot that no one on earth takes seriously.

And “jackwagon” is courtesy R. Lee Ermey. I think it’s a wonderful little neologism

I looked it up. Funny how human psychology works, your insult of choice describes you very accurately.
David M

December 5, 2012 at 4:52 am

@Jenos Idanian #13:

The left’s proposals all focus on raising the tax rates [rather] than increasing revenues

Increasing revenue and raising tax rates aren’t mutually exclusive. I’m actually not aware of anyone credible who thinks raising the tax rate won’t increase revenue.
Jenos Idanian #13

December 5, 2012 at 8:28 am

@David M: This is why we don’t take the GOP seriously, absolute nonsensical garbage like this. The debt ceiling is dumb and should not exist, and your description of the request indicates you really don’t understand it at all.

I gave you the Reader’s Digest Condensed version — I spelled it out in detail above. The shorthand version is an accurate description of the effect of Obama’s proposal.

Feel free to take Geithner’s description and show what it really</I. means.

@David M: No, the two aren’t mutually exclusive. But the Obama administration’s response to the GOP proposal was clear — it wasn’t acceptable because it didn’t raise enough money, but because it didn’t raise rates. That shows where their priorities lie.
bill

December 5, 2012 at 8:31 am

@David M: paying down the deficit would be responsible! as your guy said over 4 yrs ago;

“The problem is, is that the way Bush has done it over the last eight years is to take out a credit card from the Bank of China in the name of our children, driving up our national debt from $5 trillion dollars for the first 42 presidents — number 43 added $4 trillion dollars by his lonesome, so that we now have over $9 trillion dollars of debt that we are going to have to pay back — $30,000 for every man, woman and child.

That’s irresponsible. It’s unpatriotic.”
Barack Obama, 7/3/2008
mantis

December 5, 2012 at 11:36 am

@Jay Tea’s retarded alter ego Jenos Idanian #13:

The GOP’s plan actually takes major steps towards reducing the debt.

Yeah, use magic.
Jenos Idanian #13

December 5, 2012 at 11:51 am

@mantis: But neither you nor your catamites here feel like saying how Obama’s proposal is any better.

Except to say he won the election, so obviously his plan’s better. That is, as they say, indistinguishable from magic.
mantis

December 5, 2012 at 12:15 pm

@Jay Tea sock puppeting as Jenos Idanian #13:

But neither you nor your catamites here feel like saying how Obama’s proposal is any better.

His is an actual proposal, and not just a bunch of undetailed magical thinking like the GOP’s.
Jenos Idanian #13

December 5, 2012 at 12:30 pm

@mantis: So why the hell can’t you summarize and defend it, you blithering blivet?

It must be sad when reality itself denies you. Several quotes from Obama himself in this thread that you can’t deny or defend. And Obama’s own personal spokesman, in rejecting the GOP proposal, explicitly said it was because there were no RATE increases — not that the REVENUE raises weren’t sufficient, but that the RATES weren’t raised.

No wonder you use condescension and insults — it’s all you have. How sad for you.

I’d feel pity, but I can’t think of a single reason why you’re worth it.
David M

December 5, 2012 at 1:29 pm

@bill:

The deficit has come down each year Obama has been in office. Also, running a deficit during a recession keeps it from being worse, so it’s not remotely the same thing as Bush and the GOP taking a surplus and turning it into the largest single year deficit on record.
David M

December 5, 2012 at 1:33 pm

@Jenos Idanian #13:

it wasn’t acceptable because it didn’t raise enough money, but because it didn’t raise rates.

Or you know, it wasn’t acceptable because it wasn’t going to actually raise money without raising the rates. And for all your complaints about the debt ceiling, you’ve yet to say what purpose it serves and why eliminating isn’t the right thing to do. Congress sets the spending and revenue levels, so they control whether or not we actually hit the debt ceiling. If they don’t want to borrow money starting tomorrow, they are free to do so, the debt ceiling servers no useful purpose. (It’s kind of like the non-binding budget resolution the mindless GOP zombies keep yammering on about.)
Jenos Idanian #13

December 5, 2012 at 5:26 pm

@David M: The reason for a debt ceiling should be obvious: it is to keep some restraint on a federal government when the elected representatives abandon their sense of responsibility. It is a measure to keep future generations from being shackled with unmanageable debts. It is an imperfect measure, but better than nothing.
David M

December 5, 2012 at 5:34 pm

@Jenos Idanian #13:

But it does not do any of that, while it does raise the chance of default. Introducing unpredictability and uncertainty into the system for no reason is not a good thing.

The current debt ceiling is not functioning properly, was not well designed and should be eliminated, as it is worse than nothing.
anjin-san

December 5, 2012 at 5:42 pm

Poor Jenos, he was so sure that “President Downgrade” was headed towards a crushing defeat. Can you blame him for being bitter?
anjin-san

December 5, 2012 at 6:09 pm

And Jenos? No one is going to “defend” Obama or his policies to you. So please stop yapping about it.
Jenos Idanian #13

December 5, 2012 at 6:35 pm

@anjin-san: So, once again you’d rather engage in cheap personal shots (ineffective ones, naturally) instead of actually discussing the issues.

Let me show you my surprised face.

Damn, it’s at the cleaners. Well, I owe you one.

You are such a worthless turd…
anjin-san

December 5, 2012 at 6:50 pm

@ Jenos

If you are going to whine about “cheap personal shots” you should probably refrain from making them yourself all up and down the thread.

your catamites
you blithering blivet
and so on…

It just sort of makes you look, you know, like an idiot.

As for discussing the issues, when a Republican shows up that can actually do that, text me.
Jenos Idanian #13

December 5, 2012 at 7:05 pm

@anjin-san: anjin, when I made those shots, they were asides. Garnish, if you will.

With you, they’re all you bring to the table.

And now you try the “I could do better if I wanted to, but I don’t wanna” gambit? Dude, you really are six years old, aren’t you?

The Congressional GOP was right to laugh at Obama’s “proposal.” It was a joke.

Almost as much of a joke as your refusal to defend it.
David M

December 5, 2012 at 7:12 pm

@Jenos Idanian #13:

The Congressional GOP was right to laugh at Obama’s “proposal.” It was a joke.

That’s actually backwards, as Obama’s proposal actually has numbers, specifics and math while the GOP proposal does not. The Republican “proposal” is fake, and no one should pretend otherwise.

Last week, the President put forward a reasonably specific list of policies. He didn’t just propose to raise $1.6 trillion in new revenue and cut $400 billion from mandatory spending over ten years. He proposed specific changes to tax rates and deductions to produce the new revenues, and the entitlement cuts are laid out in his budget (most of the savings come from reductions to Medicare provider payments). Republicans didn’t like those proposals, but this letter is not responsive to them.
Jenos Idanian #13

December 5, 2012 at 7:49 pm

@David M: If it’s such a good, solid plan, why did Harry Reid refuse to schedule a vote on it? The Senate Republicans offered to let him fast-track it, no filibustering or anything, and Reid declined.
David M

December 5, 2012 at 7:51 pm

@Jenos Idanian #13:
The Senate isn’t the problem. You know that, so why do you insist on being a complete moron and making the stupidest points possible?
Jenos Idanian #13

December 5, 2012 at 8:33 pm

@David M: That happens to be a matter of perspective. I think Reid’s been nothing but a problem for years.

Funny how a guy can spend literally decades in public office and still become a multi-millionaire, isn’t it?
David M

December 5, 2012 at 8:45 pm

@Jenos Idanian #13:

Is English your second language? (That would actually explain a lot.) “Problem” was referring to the current topic, proposals to deal with the fiscal cliff.
bill

December 5, 2012 at 8:57 pm

@David M: fuzzy math doesn’t work, it’s still exceeding a $trill/yr. instead of dropping. and the fallacies of the clinton surplus have been discredited by too, you can view reality at the Treasury site. Bush never ran a $trillion in year and obama said it was “unpatriotic” to run such deficits. i know, it was over 4yrs ago and just campaign bs but some people believed him.
anjin-san

December 5, 2012 at 9:38 pm

anjin, when I made those shots, they were asides. Garnish, if you will.

Ah yes, there is the main course you serve up – the endless hash of Fox News talking points.

You must be a very proud young man…
An Interested Party

December 5, 2012 at 10:50 pm

And I hear Hillary eats… no, better not go there.

Well hell, she probably gets more than you do…
David M

December 5, 2012 at 11:00 pm

@bill:

Bill, that’s just not true. Fiscal Year 2009 started before Obama took office and belongs to Bush, and the deficit has decreased since then. (2009/2010 were about the same, but it’s still decreased since Obama became President.) Those are the facts, whether or not you like them.
bill

December 6, 2012 at 12:04 am

maybe bob woodward thinks otherwise- he was a widely respected guy when he trashed republicans, not so much anymore though.
bill

December 6, 2012 at 12:32 am

@David M: i love facts, especially how obama’s deficit is up about $5trillion in 4yrs.- bush’s went up $5trillion in 8 yrs- nothing to brag about but your leader said that was “unpatriotic”. one of these years he’s going to have to own his presidency,
and trying some lame “tax the rich” ploy is just ear candy for those who live on headlines.
David M

December 6, 2012 at 1:14 am

@bill:

You’re confusing the deficit and the total debt.
anjin-san

December 6, 2012 at 2:26 am

Funny how a guy can spend literally decades in public office and still become a multi-millionaire, isn’t it?

Funny how an uber-capitalist such as yourself can work in the magical private sector and not have a hell of a lot to show for it.
Jenos Idanian #13

December 6, 2012 at 6:14 am

@anjin-san: And all those sports fans could all do so well if they actually played the game.

And I find it slightly uncomfortable how much you (and others) want to talk about me and my personal life. It’s kind of creepy.
anjin-san

December 6, 2012 at 11:29 am

And I find it slightly uncomfortable how much you (and others) want to talk about me and my personal life.

That seems like an odd sentiment considering how very hard you work at getting people to pay attention to you. No one is interested in your personal life dude, we have just been wondering if you had any game to back up your constant chatter about business, the economy, and capitalism. Clearly, you don’t, and yes, it is a little amusing. Don’t go getting weepy because the other kids are teasing you – you earned it. Barack Obama, a man you aim constant derision at, is more successful that you in the marketplace by orders of magnitude.

And “creepy”? You are the guy who brought “catamites” into this discussion. If you want creepy, go look in the mirror.

And all those sports fans could all do so well if they actually played the game.

Actually, a lot of us do well to very, very well out in the real world of capitalism.
David M

December 6, 2012 at 3:55 pm

@Jenos Idanian #13:

If it’s such a good, solid plan, why did Harry Reid refuse to schedule a vote on it? The Senate Republicans offered to let him fast-track it, no filibustering or anything, and Reid declined.

As always Jenos, no one should ever take Republicans seriously. They made that offer, and then went back on it. Remind me again how they are being the serious ones here.