Saturday’s Forum

FILED UNDER: Open Forum
Steven L. Taylor
About Steven L. Taylor
Steven L. Taylor is a retired Professor of Political Science and former College of Arts and Sciences Dean. His main areas of expertise include parties, elections, and the institutional design of democracies. His most recent book is the co-authored A Different Democracy: American Government in a 31-Country Perspective. He earned his Ph.D. from the University of Texas and his BA from the University of California, Irvine. He has been blogging since 2003 (originally at the now defunct Poliblog). Follow Steven on Twitter and/or BlueSky.

Comments

  1. OzarkHillbilly says:

    Welp, they really screwed the pooch on this one: ‘A botched prosecution’: Alec Baldwin’s trial gets shock ending fit for Hollywood

    The swift unravelling surprised even seasoned legal observers. “It was stunning to see the prosecution fall apart so quickly. One of the special prosecutors bolted before the judge could even make her decision,” said Neama Rahmani, a former federal prosecutor and president of Los Angeles-based West Coast Trial Lawyers.

    “It’s one of the most botched prosecutions in American history. It should be taught in school as an example of how not to bring a case.”

    2
  2. Kathy says:

    JetBlue plane had a double diversion over two days.

    Specifics aside, this is a risk when an airline runs a limited service to a destination. Also, who knows what codeshares JetBlue has with other airlines.

    BTW the EU 261 compensation applies, as the flight originated in Paris. I wonder, though, whether one could claim this event consisted of two flights, not one, as it happened twice, and whether compensation ought to be paid for both.

    1
  3. charontwo says:

    More Biden stuff:

    https://x.com/argellastone/status/1808947783640232085

    If we get a new thread on this topic, I will also post this there.

    Alright, let’s make a thread out of this.

    Biden robbed them of their sense of control in 2020. They delight in being kingmakers, in their endorsements or lack thereof making or breaking campaigns. And yes, they all view each other as part of one big club, regardless of company.

    In 2020 Biden was not supposed to win the nomination, it was supposed to be someone popular in the club, or at least someone they’d have fun playing with, and he humiliated them and their friends in the club by winning in spite of their rejection.

    Barack Obama was, briefly, palatable to them because he was useful in the 2008 primary. They had a grudge against Hillary dating back to the 90s and he swooped in and won the nomination everyone thought was hers, and they enjoyed convincing themselves they won it for him.

    This part is crucial. They genuinely firmly believed that they won it for Obama. That without their help, he wouldn’t have won it at all. And that thrill was like a drug. And they lashed out like addicts whenever anyone tried taking it away from them.

    Remember early on in the Obama admin when they iced out Fox News in response to them blatantly lying about the admin’s goals? CNN lashed out against him, MSNBC. Fucking Jon Stewart dedicated an entire monologue to chewing him out over it. Because he hurt their friends. The club.

    And the admin stood down and begrudgingly let Fox back in, even though they spent the rest of his administration spewing blatant lies and vitriol against him. But that more or less satisfied the club, because they felt he remembered who the boss was.

    Biden can’t do that for them. Nothing he can say or do can ever make them forgive him for making them feel weak by having the audacity to win. They’ve been twitching for this moment for three and a half years, begging for it. Because they are narcissistic little freaks.

    (via BJ, of course)

    8
  4. Jen says:

    I am considering adopting this as my standard response.

    6
  5. OzarkHillbilly says:

    The story of a heat death: David went to work in his new job on a French building site. By the end of the day he was dead

    In her research on heat death in the US, (Cora) Roelofs has found that it is common for workers to die in their first few days on the job, not just because of the physiological adjustment to heat exposure, but social factors.

    “People don’t know their name, they feel like they can’t step out and say to a manager: ‘I don’t feel well.’ They don’t know where the water is, where the shade is, when it’s acceptable to slack off,” she says.

    What is happening to outdoor workers is a concern for all of us. Back in 2014, Roelofs wrote a paper for the American Journal of Public Health in which she warned that workers are “the canary in the climate coalmine”: a warning of the health risks that are coming for the general population as extreme temperatures become the norm. “I wouldn’t use that phrasing now, because canaries were dispensable,” Roelofs tells me. “I’d say now that workers are the sentinels.”

    Things are better on a union jobsite than a non-union jobsite. Much better. Texas hates it when construction workers are treated like human beings, which is why they’ve taken away a city’s ability to protect them.

    7
  6. OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Jen: Love it.

    2
  7. OzarkHillbilly says:

    Fever’s Caitlin Clark makes history with 13-assist night in win over Mercury

    Clark equals franchise record with 13 assists in 95-86 win
    Indiana rookie registers fifth consecutive double-double

    It was always only a matter of time, but she seems to have found her comfort zone, and done so a lot sooner than I thought she would.

    7
  8. Kathy says:

    Yesterday @Just nutha ignint cracker asked:

    What makes you think that streaming companies wouldn’t be perfectly happy being network TV on demand as long as subscription rates and fees from them are high enough?

    I was thinking more about the inclusion of ads in streaming, which seems to generate more revenue than subscription fees. This brings them closer to the network TV model. Then, too, there are free streaming options that rely on ads. For now, these have mostly B grade shows and movies that are not that popular, but are free. Some of these streamers dont provide programming on demand, but justs tream different channels, like a cable company.

    The thing is that streaming had kind of evolved into more complex threads, carrying a story each season. This is what I think is at risk of disappearing if streaming winds up as a different delivery method for the old broadcast model.

    1
  9. Kurtz says:

    @Kathy:

    There are hidden gems on some of those free services. Years ago, I watched Bad Lieutenant (the original with Keitel, not the Herzog one with Cage) on Crackle. Currently, Margin Call is on Amazon’s Freevee.

    Both are excellent.

    3
  10. OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Kurtz: Broadchurch is very good. It’s a Brit show, about the murder of a child. Watching it on ROKU, I think.

    2
  11. just nutha says:

    @Kurtz: I use services such as Roku, Tubi, and Pluto exclusively. I only watch trash, and only for the mind numbing, though. Why pay under those circumstances?

    3
  12. OzarkHillbilly says:

    Heh: ‘His skincare regime alone would bankrupt you’: Ryan Reynolds and Hugh Jackman bring banter and bromance to London

    Speaking at a press conference, Reynolds and director Shaun Levy said they had been scrambling for ideas to continue the franchise until Jackman agreed to return. Rejected pitches included a film in which it is revealed Deadpool was the hunter who shot Bambi’s mother.

    Marvel boss Kevin Feige swiftly shot down the idea, reported Reynolds. “They were like: we don’t fuck with Bambi.”

    3
  13. charontwo says:

    @Jen:

    Quoting one of the commenters over at BJ:

    And what they are asking Biden to do is to assist in the suicide of the Democratic Party and our democracy. You can’t ask him to withdraw and replace him with nobody. The process they are suggesting is some West Wing fantasy. None of the people they are suggesting have stepped forward and said they are interested. Whitmer has said she won’t do it. As bad as 1968 and 1980 were, there were actual candidates who had actual support in the party who were trying to replace the President. Here, there is literally no one who has said they are interested, and there has been no groundswell of support for any replacement other than Johnny Unbeatable.

    10
  14. Flat Earth Luddite says:

    And now for something completely different…

    Legendary rock and roll band The Zombies have canceled upcoming tour dates after founding member Rod Argent suffered a stroke.

    Argent, the keyboardist and primary songwriter for the “Time of the Season” group, was hospitalized with a stroke after celebrating his 79th birthday in London with his wife of 52 years. He was released the next day, but doctors advised he will need several months of rest and recuperation, The Zombies’ management said.

    Belated congratulations on your 52nd anniversary, Mr. & Mrs. Argent, and hopes for a speedy recovery.

    ETA, these guys look pretty freaking good for a buncha geezers, don’t they Cracker?

    https://www.syracuse.com/entertainment/2024/07/legendary-rock-band-cancels-tour-after-founding-member-suffers-stroke.html

    3
  15. Jen says:

    Dr. Ruth Westheimer has died at age 96.

    2
  16. DK says:

    @Flat Earth Luddite: The Zombies are fantastic, I hope they get back on the road soon.

    1
  17. Flat Earth Luddite says:

    @DK:

    I remember hearing that keyboard riff on my 9v transistor radio and having my mind blown.

    ETA sounds like this was already planned as a farewell tour. That, and a way to get a write-off on a nice vacation with the wife and band mates. Wishing them all well, they’ve had a heck of a ride.

    2
  18. charontwo says:

    This is really long, TL:DR so I did not finish, but opening paragraphs really concerning:

    Christian nationalism, specifically Seven Mountains Mandate stuff:

    Ziklag

    The little-known charity is backed by famous conservative donors, including the families behind Hobby Lobby and Uline. It’s spending millions to make a big political push for this election — but it may be violating the law.

    https://www.propublica.org/article/inside-ziklag-secret-christian-charity-2024-election

    A network of ultrawealthy Christian donors is spending nearly $12 million to mobilize Republican-leaning voters and purge more than a million people from the rolls in key swing states, aiming to tilt the 2024 election in favor of former President Donald Trump.

    These previously unreported plans are the work of a group named Ziklag, a little-known charity whose donors have included some of the wealthiest conservative Christian families in the nation, including the billionaire Uihlein family, who made a fortune in office supplies, the Greens, who run Hobby Lobby, and the Wallers, who own the Jockey apparel corporation. Recipients of Ziklag’s largesse include Alliance Defending Freedom, which is the Christian legal group that led the overturning of Roe v. Wade, plus the national pro-Trump group Turning Point USA and a constellation of right-of-center advocacy groups.

    ProPublica and Documented obtained thousands of Ziklag’s members-only email newsletters, internal videos, strategy documents and fundraising pitches, none of which has been previously made public. They reveal the group’s 2024 plans and its long-term goal to underpin every major sphere of influence in American society with Christianity. In the Bible, the city of Ziklag was where David and his soldiers found refuge during their war with King Saul.

    “We are in a spiritual battle and locked in a terrible conflict with the powers of darkness,” says a strategy document that lays out Ziklag’s 30-year vision to “redirect the trajectory of American culture toward Christ by bringing back Biblical structure, order and truth to our Nation.”

    Ziklag’s 2024 agenda reads like the work of a political organization. It plans to pour money into mobilizing voters in Arizona who are “sympathetic to Republicans” in order to secure “10,640 additional unique votes” — almost the exact margin of President Joe Biden’s win there in 2020. The group also intends to use controversial AI software to enable mass challenges to the eligibility of hundreds of thousands of voters in competitive states.

    snip

    Ziklag was the brainchild of a Silicon Valley entrepreneur named Ken Eldred. It emerged from a previous organization founded by Eldred called United In Purpose, which aimed to get more Christians active in the civic arena, according to Bill Dallas, the group’s former director. United In Purpose generated attention in June 2016 when it organized a major meeting between then-candidate Trump and hundreds of evangelical leaders.

    snip

    The Christian nationalism movement has a variety of aims and tenets, according to the Public Religion Research Institute: that the U.S. government “should declare America a Christian nation”; that American laws “should be based on Christian values”; that the U.S. will cease to exist as a nation if it “moves away from our Christian foundations”; that being Christian is essential to being American; and that God has “called Christians to exercise dominion over all areas of American society.”

    One theology promoted by Christian nationalist leaders is the Seven Mountain Mandate. Each mountain represents a major industry or a sphere of public life: arts and media, business, church, education, family, government, and science and technology. Ziklag’s goal, the documents say, is to “take dominion over the Seven Mountains,” funding Christian projects or installing devout Christians in leadership positions to reshape each mountain in a godly way.

    Trump is their stalking horse. Once Trump is out of the picture, the Handmaid’s Tale takes over. Which would not be long considering how fast the Trump dementia is progressing.

    3
  19. just nutha says:

    @Flat Earth Luddite: Indeed! But 79??? When does the time come for us to get off the stage and let someone else’s mom be proud?

  20. Jen says:

    Trump has a “short list” of VP candidates, which includes: Rubio, Vance, Tim Scott, and Doug Burgum.

    Does anyone else here think he’s likely to name someone who is NOT on that list?

    Rubio would be a dumb pick from an electoral college perspective unless Trump plans on changing his voter registration to another state (again). Vance…maybe. I just sort of get the feeling that this is a lead up to more Apprentice-like showmanship, and that there will be A! Surprise! Reveal! at the convention.

    2
  21. Eusebio says:

    @Jen: Like maybe Youngkin? He’ll have just a year left in his term and won’t be eligible to run for a consecutive term. And he’s got money, and presumably connections to other wealthy people.

    1
  22. DK says:

    Texas Governor Greg Abbott Jets Off to Asia as Hurricane Beryl Lashes His State (The Daily Beast)

    Parts of Texas have been without power for a week since the hurricane, as the deregulated, isolationist Texas power grid is failing yet again.

    How old is Greg Abbott? He should step down, maybe, for someone older who can handle the job.

    3
  23. Kathy says:

    On other aviation news, a Sukhoi “Superjet” crashed while conducting a ferry flight, killing all three crew onboard. Fortunately it wasn’t carrying passengers.

    Reportedly, it had just come out from maintenance…

    If you saw the headline in The Aviation Herald, you wouldn’t assume it was that bad: Gazpromavia SU95 near Moscow on Jul 12th 2024, lost height coming out of maintenance

    That sounds even less worrisome than “controlled flight into terrain.”

    1
  24. dazedandconfused says:

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Faster that most thought, but I doubt she would describe her status as “comfortable”. Still a long way to go on the other end of the floor and the competition is taking full advantage for the moment. It’s a huge step up from being able ball-pressure 18 year-old point guards to experienced pro point guards.

  25. CSK says:

    @Jen:

    Jen, Trump said yesterday he wants to run the selection process like a “highly sophisticated” version of The Apprentice.

  26. dazedandconfused says:
  27. gVOR10 says:

    @Jen: I can’t imagine even Trump doesn’t realize Vance would put a shiv in Trump’s back first time he thought he’d get away with it.

  28. Mikey says:

    Bernie Sanders: Joe Biden for President

    I will do all that I can to see that President Biden is re-elected. Why? Despite my disagreements with him on particular issues, he has been the most effective president in the modern history of our country and is the strongest candidate to defeat Donald Trump — a demagogue and pathological liar. It’s time to learn a lesson from the progressive and centrist forces in France who, despite profound political differences, came together this week to soundly defeat right-wing extremism.

    5
  29. Mikey says:

    Fitness icon Richard Simmons has died, age 76.

  30. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @Jen: Yeah. A! Surprise! Reveal! is my bet for the convention, too. Fortunately, one of the advantages of streaming without using the major services is that it’s easy for me to ignore opportunities to stream the RNC for free. There’s only so many heartfelt stories I can stand about someone’s “salad days” when ‘we had to sell part of his portfolio to buy a coop in Manhattan while we attended grad school.’ I reached my limit a decade ago. [eyeroll]

    2
  31. Just nutha ignint cracker says:

    @gVOR10: Meh… I don’t think Vance has got the stones to pull something like that off. He likes to believe he does, though; I’d agree with that.

  32. Jen says:

    @Eusebio: Yes, someone like Youngkin. Someone not already mentioned, not too flashy, but would add substance without overshadowing Trump.

    @CSK: That’s makes sense, it’s all he really knows or understands, how to run a flim-flam show. Not sure about the “sophisticated” part though.

    @gVOR10: Vance is smarmy and creepy. I’m concerned having him as a VP would be a bad idea, given Trump’s girth and propensity to consume junk food.

  33. clarkontheweekend says:

    TFG’s vp will be Josh Hawley. White male Christian nationalist and insurrectionist, racist sympathizer. Trump fanboy extraidinaire. Also young. Odds on fav in my book.

  34. DrDaveT says:

    @Jen: I’m pretty sure Trump never forgets that he is NOT permitted to grab that one. Ever again.

  35. DrDaveT says:

    @charontwo:

    Ziklag’s 30-year vision to “redirect the trajectory of American culture toward Christ by bringing back Biblical structure, order and truth to our Nation adopting all of the beliefs and tactics of his principal foes, the Pharisees.”

    FTFY, Ziklag.

    3
  36. Flat Earth Luddite says:

    @just nutha:

    In my case (and yours) a while back. But then again, we never sought fame, fortune, or the song making machinery behind the popular song.

    2
  37. Flat Earth Luddite says:

    @gVOR10: @Just nutha ignint cracker:

    Well, this is why neither one of us is getting a call inquiring about our willingness to step into the pocket, as it were. Let’s face it, while your health is significantly better than Drump, you’re unwilling, and this sociopathic Luddite is flat out of the running, despite my qualification of being part of the first “President/Vice Present Are BOTH Convicted Felons” (™) ticket!!!!!

    2
  38. Kathy says:

    Q: How many generative AIs does it take to screw in a light bulb?

    A: Just one. But it needs to see one million examples of light bulbs being changed before it can do it.

    3
  39. DrDaveT says:

    @Kathy:

    Just one. But it needs to see one million examples of light bulbs being changed before it can do it.

    No, that’s supervised learning. The reinforcement learning AI deliberately breaks the light bulb so that it can’t burn out, and the Generative AI version watches a million videos of home repairs and then screws a light bulb into the toaster.

    3
  40. CSK says:

    Trump was hit by a projectile at his Pennsylvania rally and removed from the stage by the Secret Service. His ear was “bleeding profusely.

    The rally was canceled.

    1
  41. Gromitt Gunn says:

    @DK: Yep, and while he’s been off doing that, he left his main political rival, the Lt. Gov., in charge. So Dan Patrick has been getting free live TV spots for the past week parading himself around as Governor Solve Your Problems on the evening news every night, Abbott is off somewhere doing something with some foreign folks actively not caring about the immediate problem facing his state.

  42. JKB says:

    @CSK:

    GUNSHOTS AT TRUMP RALLY IN BUTLER, PA – TRUMP ALIVE BUT RUSHED OFFSTAGE WITH BLOOD ON HIS FACE.

    UPDATE: Seems to have been grazed in the right ear. After a series of “pops,” he grabbed his right ear and then dove for the stage. At one point you hear someone yell “shooter down.”

    Democrats have been trying to get someone to take a shot at Trump and now you’ve succeeded. After all in your propaganda Trump is Literal Hitler.

    2
  43. mattbernius says:

    @JKB:
    I really have nothing but pity for you and how you continually choose fear, hate, and victimhood.

    It’s a really sad way to go through life.

    10
  44. Mikey says:

    @JKB: Fuck off.

    7
  45. Jim Brown 32 says:

    @JKB: And yet, not even a wish for the health and well-being of the Former President from you as his supporter.

    What a pile of self-loving filth you are.

    8
  46. Gustopher says:

    @JKB: Trump is a vile, racist, rapist hate-monger who demonizes half the country. His rhetoric and actions are making a lot of people unsafe. If he reaps what he sows, I will shed no tears.

    Hey, if it was a gun, maybe this is a good time to discuss gun control and background checks?

    5
  47. Jen says:

    @JKB: Oh, so NOW you understand that stochastic terrorism and easy access to guns is a bad thing?

    Go away, hypocrite.

    11
  48. mattbernius says:

    I 100% what Orin Kerr just tweeted:

    An attack on a Presidential candidate is an attack on American democracy itself.

    I would also remind that most high profile political attacks and assassination attempts in the US have involved attackers with serious mental health issues.

    7
  49. Kurtz says:

    False flag by the deep state. /s

    Glad he is okay.

    4
  50. Gustopher says:

    Kevin Roberts, President of the Heritage Foundation:

    We are in the process of the second American Revolution, which will remain bloodless if the left allows it to be.

    Just seems relevant to this thread as well as the tabs thread.

    You don’t go around encouraging white supremacists and talking about armed revolution complete with bloodshed and then get to act like the victim. Fuck Trump. I hope he gets an infection from this wound (or any other wound — he can cut himself shaving, whatever) and dies.

    In more distressing news, a 14 year old trans girl was dismembered in Pennsylvania. I’m not going to pretend to care about anything bad that happens to Trump — other, better people get far worse, and while compassion is not a finite resource… fuck Trump.

    3
  51. Michael Reynolds says:

    This is an absolute disaster.

    3
  52. JKB says:

    I thought such language was “beyond the pale” after the Democrat mouthpieces went after Sarah Palin in the wake the Gabby Giffords shooting. Must have come back around for Democrats to use.

    Biden on Monday:

    A memo the campaign sent to Hill offices obtained by Scripps News highlights President Biden’s energetic campaign rallies, swing state polling and grassroots support.

    The president joined a call with the Biden Victory Fund National Finance Committee, where the campaign says he told supporters, “It’s time to put Trump in the bullseye,” framing his strategy for the next debate as “Attack. Attack. Attack. Attack.”

    2
  53. charontwo says:

    Gunman and one rally attendee dead in PA Trump rally.

    Trump whisked off with blood on his face.

    Maybe other people injured?

    By initial appearance, Trump injuries do not appear serious.

  54. CSK says:

    @Michael Reynolds:

    Yeah, it is. Trump’s going to be a hero-martyr.

    2
  55. Michael Reynolds says:

    On the plus side we’re going to be seeing less about Biden’s age.

    How the fuck did the Secret Service not see a guy on a fucking roof? And who the hell tries a shot at that distance without a bipod, or at least from a prone position.

    2
  56. Kurtz says:

    @JKB:

    So now you agree that this sort of language doesn’t have any place in the politics of an open society? I only recall defenses of Palin coming from the right.

    6
  57. wr says:

    @JKB: “Democrats have been trying to get someone to take a shot at Trump and now you’ve succeeded. After all in your propaganda Trump is Literal Hitler.”

    Maybe this would be a good time for you to repost all your gloating messages about how Paul Pelosi deserved to be attacked by a crazy person with a hammer?

    12
  58. Jack says:

    Ok, folks. Calm?

    You create vitriol, you get this. Trump is Hitler. Trump is a rapist. Trump is a criminal (heh, anyone see the HRC ruling? Heh). You argue like juvenile and crazed lunatics, you get the loonies to act. You all have culpability.
    I know you won’t admit it. Means justifies ends etc.

    Let’s see what they learn about the shooters(s).

    Trump may have just won the election. The ads write themselves.

    1
  59. DrDaveT says:

    @Jack:

    You create vitriol, you get this.

    Like on January 6? I don’t recall you buying that argument then…

    Have you actually listened to any Trump speeches. You cannot possibly win an argument that the rhetoric of Trump’s opponents is more inflammatory than Trump’s own, or less grounded in fact.

    And yes, Trump is a rapist (according to the courts, and by televised boasting admission). Yes, Trump is a felon (with most of his most serious indictments yet to be adjudicated). Trump isn’t smart enough to be Hitler, but he admires Hitler, and Putin, and Orban, and Kim, and has publicly declared his ambition to be a fascist dictator like them. Americans don’t need to demonize Trump — he’s self-demonizing. He’s proud of what he is, as you seem to be.

    9
  60. Gustopher says:

    @Jack:

    Trump may have just won the election. The ads write themselves.

    “Remember before Trump, when America was normal? Pepperidge Farm Remembers.”

    Violence and the threat of violence has been part and parcel of Trumpism and the Republican Party as a whole since Trump reared his ugly head. I think it’s entirely possible that people will see this and think “oh, fuck no, no more of this shit, I’ll just vote for the boring sleepy guy and hope Trump goes away.”

    His base will rally to him, but they were already rallied to him. Everyone else… they might actually want to make America great again and close off this stupid chapter of Trumpism.

    Squeaky Fromme didn’t ensure we got another term of President Ford.

    5
  61. JKB says:

    Hmm

    “‘The Biden campaign is pausing all outbound communications and working to pull down our television ads as quickly as possible,’ a campaign official said” (The Guardian)

    What pray tell is in their ads?

  62. Jax says:

    Man, if only gun control was a thing……

    5
  63. Jen says:

    @JKB: This is a normal procedure. Just like pulling down PILOT Pen ads when there are air accidents.

    Standard communications procedure.

    5
  64. Modulo Myself says:

    It’s probably over. It’s telling how mindless the Democrats are in responding to Trump nearly being killed. The governor of Texas pardoned a guy who went to a rally hoping to murder somebody, and this all they have. Violence bad, etcetera. If Trump had been actually killed we would be far better off and everybody knows it. The GOP has only losers and betas behind him. Just mooks and little guys all the way back. And the idea of a Trump funeral, as if he were a real person who meant something to anybody, would be an abject spectacle. It would have been worse than Biden at the debate.

    Instead, the Democrats put all their stock behind an infirm man who eats ice cream and abhors violence, except when it’s against Palestinians, and loves democracy he didn’t do squat against an actual opponent of it.

    Also, the Secret Service seems as deskilled as everything else. How did they miss a guy on a roof with a rifle?

    4
  65. Tony W says:

    Trump’s Reichstag Fire.

    I would be unsurprised to learn that this was all staged.

    3
  66. Mister Bluster says:

    Staged
    Yeah. Like those kids at Sandy Hook.
    Today’s victims are crisis actors.
    I haven’t seen pictures of corpses yet. Have you?

    3
  67. just nutha says:

    @Kurtz: Hmmm…
    I’m more ambivalent that he’s okay myself. Guess I need to work on that empathy thing still.

    3
  68. just nutha says:

    @JKB: Or it might be one of those “goes around comes around” things because some people are fatigued with always being the ones who are responsible.

    2
  69. Jack says:

    News Item

    Trump shot in “mostly peaceful” assassination attempt.

    Idiots immediately blame guns, that magically positioned themselves on a rooftop. And fired themselves. Excuses for the gun manipulator to follow.

    1
  70. just nutha says:

    @Jack: Oh please. That doesn’t even get up to “meh…” level. You’re gonna have to fake outrage better than that.

    3
  71. Franklin says:

    Interesting. Some people are all butthurt because Trump’s violent rhetoric gets turned on himself.

    6
  72. Kathy says:

    @just nutha:

    What you won’t find out in the polls or in this comment section, is how many people wish the shooter hadn’t missed.

    6
  73. Mister Bluster says:

    guns
    Of course the killer could have used a screwdriver or a kitchen knife or a hammer. All weapons that are just like guns since they can be used to kill people. All you have to do throw them far enough and fast enough.

    5
  74. JKB says:

    @Jen:

    Standard like this from the Biden-Harris HQ on July 4th

  75. Jax says:

    @Kathy: I mean, we all saw what happened with President Snow.

    May the odds be ever in his….favor.

    Man, this was a big shortcoming on the shooter’s part. He hadn’t named a VP yet, so allllll that campaign cash…. Who would take over as the nominee?

    Game it out!!

    1
  76. Kurtz says:

    @JKB:

    Trump doesn’t need to have Dems say it, he said it himself. Or was it an AI deep fake?

    You and @Jack both seem to have a problem accepting the reality of the person you support even though people’s perceptions are based on what Trump himself has said and done.

    What was the description opponents and supporters alike used for a while? His opponents take him literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally.

    Guess what? Trump is the one who constantly spoke ill of anyone who voted against him. Why would you expect anyone that he calls vermin or criminal or treasonous to do anything but push back? But his supporters blame Biden, and before him, Obama, for being divisive.

    And Jack had the gall to call Bernius a fake intellectual and a partisan hack. Have either of you ever once explained why you support Trump? Have either of you made a case, hell, ever expressed a world view? No, you haven’t. Maybe away from here, but you certainly have explained nothing in any of these threads.

    Do I agree with how everyone here has responded to today’s events? No. But I do understand it. @Beth has real reason to fear for her safety. @DK, @EddieInCA, and @DeD, and others cannot navigate the world in the same way that the rest of us can simply because of the color of their skin and texture of their hair.

    Yet it’s you and Jack who feel aggrieved.

    I try to avoid saying shit like this, when I do it’s mostly to people on my side of the aisle, but at this point, there is nothing left to say.

    Fuck you. Your side is the one who expects everyone else to fall in line and kowtow to their views. Your side is the one who threatens the safety of others. Your side is the one who divides your fellow citizens into real America and threats. Your side is the one who sees boogiemen around every corner. Your side is the one who tries to root out dissenters and then claims to be marginalized.

    You have never once expressed an original thought or idea. You have never shown a shred of empathy or shown the ability to understand anyone else’s point of view or experience. You never respond to substantive criticisms.

    So, you know what? Fuck you. You add nothing to the discussion except grievance. You are an empty vessel, parroting things others have said that feel right to you.

    And you know what? Unlike some here, I don’t like what took place today but not for the reasons others have expressed. I’m not even thinking about the election, I’m thinking of my principles. Why? Because as loathesome and malignant as I think Trump is, things I thought long before he entered the political arena, he didn’t deserve to be shot.

    Why? Because I believe in pluralism and democratic principles. That’s something you have shown nothing but antipathy toward. So tell me something, which one of us actually shows a commitment to American ideals?

    You know the answer.

    Do you have enough self awareness and honesty to man up and admit it? I doubt it; but I have hope. Well, you caught me, I indulge in a little bit of irrationality too, I guess. Prove me wrong. Show you’re better and more than you have shown in your posts here.

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  77. just nutha says:

    @Kathy: Trump’s certainly the poster child for karma in many ways for sure. Makes for a problem that goes both ways.

    ETA: No one deserves to be shot, but some situations create problems generating sympathy for the assaulted person. Trump is at the focal point of that problem unfortunately.

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  78. Jen says:

    @JKB: Look, I can’t explain it to you if you are resistant to information as always, but I can assure you that it is SOP for campaigns to pull ads, halt fundraising, and pause campaigning when events happen. It’s done when candidates are in accidents. It was done when Carnahan’s plane crashed.

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  79. wr says:

    Hmm. I seem to recall it was the Republican nominee for governor of North Carolina who said in a speech that “some folks need killing.” Don’t recall any of our resident Trumpies here having any problems with that.

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