Outside the Beltway

A Detention Camp at Guantanamo

I have questions.

Steven L. Taylor
51

Comments

From President Trump today:

Via The Hill: Trump orders preparation of Guantánamo Bay facility to house migrants:

“We have 30,000 beds in Guantánamo to detain the worst criminal illegal aliens threatening the American people,” Trump said during an event to sign the Laken Riley Act into law, stiffening the nation’s immigration laws. 

“Some of them are so bad we don’t even trust the countries to hold them because we don’t want them coming back, so we’re going to send them out to Guantánamo,” Trump added. “This will double our capacity immediately. And tough, it’s a tough place to get out of.”

This raises a lot of questions.

For example:

  1. If these persons are in the country illegally and are in custody, shouldn’t they just be deported?
  2. Isn’t taking them from the US to Guantanamo instead of just deporting them a waste of resources?
  3. If they are criminals, shouldn’t they be in jail (after having been tried and convicted)?
  4. What is the legal justification for housing them at Guantanamo? (Especially the ones who are so dangerous that they can’t be sent back to their home countries?)
  5. Can we have some concrete examples of these vicious criminals?

And not to be too snarky about a serious subject, is this not another piece of the puzzle in terms of the “is he acting like a fascist or at least an authoritarian?”

Guantanamo was bad enough, and raised a number of moral/legal issues, when people captured on the battlefield were detained there, but persons arrested in the United States have constitutional rights, regardless of their migration status. Where is the due process of law and under what process can a person be detained by federal officials and then banished to a camp at a US military installation in Cuba?

See, also, Reuters: Trump to prepare facility at Guantanamo for 30,000 migrants.

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51 responses to “A Detention Camp at Guantanamo”

  1. Mikey Avatar
    Mikey

    6. How long will they be held in Guantanamo?

    Or the overarching question, why Guantanamo, to which I am sure the answer is “because America won’t be able to see what happens there.”

    15
  2. Kathy Avatar
    Kathy

    If these persons are in the country illegally and are in custody, shouldn’t they just be deported?

    But what’s the cruelty in that?

    8
  3. Scott Avatar
    Scott

    And where is the money coming from. There is some legal process for moving money between accounts around but you can’t spend more money than appropriated. Which, as was pointed out earlier, expires 14 Mar. There may be multiyear funds that can be moved around.

    3
  4. Gustopher Avatar
    Gustopher

    I like concentration camps as much as the next guy, but I want good, American concentration camps, right here in the good old US of A.

    How can Aramark, a good, massive US private company extract to compete for contracts feeding the prisoners if they are held outside the US? And let’s not neglect the American private prison companies either.

    Will no one think of the shareholders?

    15
  5. Stormy Dragon Avatar
    Stormy Dragon

    Trump wants to deport citizens now too:

    https://www.rawstory.com/trump-crime-2671007254/

    3
  6. Neil Hudelson Avatar
    Neil Hudelson

    Just appropo of nothing, thinking of the last (checks calendar) 6 days of trying to unilaterally suspend the Constitution, suspending appropriations, and building a concentration camp to house people who aren’t criminals, aren’t foreign migrants, but some mysterious third thing (people he deems enemies) if you haven’t yet please consider renewing your passport this weekend before that department’s budget is suspended on a whim.

    7
  7. Kathy Avatar
    Kathy

    @Stormy Dragon:

    Well, there’s this guy living in DC who has 34 felony convictions…

    11
  8. CSK Avatar
    CSK

    @Stormy Dragon:

    Trump’s a convicted criminal. Should he be deported as well?

    6
  9. Daryl Avatar
    Daryl

    A facility for 30,000 humans that meets minimal International Law would cost $Billions to build and operate. The current facilities have housed ~800 people. I’ve been to Gitmo, twice, and I’m an Architect. The terrain there is ill-suited for a 30,000 person prison. Are they prisoners of the federal prison system? Or war criminals? How will this lower the price of eggs?
    Diaper Donnie is one of the least serious people on the planet.

    14
  10. Scott Avatar
    Scott

    @Scott: In addition to Impoundment Act violations, I’d be looking for far more serious Anti-Deficiency Act violations. Unless Trump believes his “immunity” can be extended to his lackeys. How about a running pardon for all Trump criminal associates?

    3
  11. Kathy Avatar
    Kathy

    @Stormy Dragon:

    On a more serious note, the rapist felon uses “deport” and “tariff” like magic words or talismans as simple solutions to complex problems. He likely has only a dim notion, if any, of what they mean.

    A tariff is an import tax, as everyone else knows. Deportation is the action of expelling from a country someone who has no right to be there. A citizen of a country has every right to be in their country, regardless of which laws they may have broken or what sentence they’re serving.

    What the rapist means is exile. This is expelling a citizen from their own country. Typically in modern times this is something dictatorships and autocrats do as punishment, usually of political rivals or merely political activists. Czarist and Communist Russia are a good example of the practice. In Czarist times, they even came up with internal exile. this meant confinement in a small rural town or region for some years, usually in Siberia, where the enemies of the regime could be kept under closer surveillance.

    The rapist may be fantasizing about exiling criminals, which he can’t legally do, but the end result will be the exile of political opponents. His party is already calling for it whenever anyone criticizes their felon rapist in any way.

    11
  12. dazedandconfused Avatar
    dazedandconfused

    Re: “…shouldn’t they just be deported?”

    Deportation is takes two to tango. The sending country and the receiving. There looks to be a lot of people, particularly those born in the US (birthright citizenship being effectively ended by executive branch fiat) for which there will be no nation with any record of them being their citizens.

    Likely this move is a response to people informing our Dear Leader of this problem. Our own prisons are pretty full, fed and state, and all states have their own laws about detaining people without due process.

    I imagine there will be some kind of set up in which these people can earn their citizenship, some kind of “Work Will Set You Free” program…if only to keep them docile for awhile.

    3
  13. Jay L Gischer Avatar
    Jay L Gischer

    This really feels like an all-out “troll the libs” announcement.

    Nothing about it makes any sense. Not the cost, not the location, nothing.

    He’s just banging powerful words together to make headlines. It may make headlines, but it doesn’t make sense.

    7
  14. DK Avatar
    DK

    “We have 30,000 beds in Guantánamo…”

    We literally do not have even close to that many Guantanamo beds. The rapist president is either lying (as usual) or having another dementia moment.

    Anyway, coffee and egg prices are rising to record highs under Trump. There are major tuberculosis and bird flu outbreaks while conservatives gut health agencies and put unqualified drunks and druggies in charge. Obamacare subsides are set to expire. The right’s ICE raids are worsening farm labor shortages. And MAGA’s pardoned Jan. 6 criminals are re-criming.

    We’re aware Trump and Musk have a Nazi fetish, but they need to get off the Hitler stuff and start reducing crime and the cost of groceries, housing, and healthcare. Trump promised to fix things on day one, and instead their far right extremism and chaos are making everything worse.

    4
  15. Kurtz Avatar
    Kurtz

    Considering that there are people in prominent positions within the Trump administration (e.g. Russell Vought) who are you self-ID Christian Nationalists, and legal scholars at top Law Schools (e.g. Adrian Vermeule) who are Catholic Integralists, this should surprise no one.

    Those ideologies are not merely about the relationship between religion and government, they are about restoring Pre-Enlightenment social orders.

    4
  16. Kurtz Avatar
    Kurtz

    @Jay L Gischer:

    Thinkability matters. Dismissing this as trolling is dangerous, dude.

    5
  17. The Q Avatar
    The Q

    Comment deleted because it is unproductive and causes more harm than it does promote any positive good.

    I would note that the reality of the border v. Trump’s ability to demagogue it are not the same things. And, further, that Democrats, including the Biden administration, have moved towards the Trump position.

    And people who were moved by Trump’s attacks on trans people were not going to change their minds and vote for Harris if she joined it.

    We know the economy drove the outcome and it is also simply the case that it never so simple as “if party X had only done Y, X would have won.

    At any rate, could we please not attack groups of people in the comment section?

    Thanks.

    -SLT

    2
  18. Ken_L Avatar
    Ken_L

    under what process can a person be detained by federal officials and then banished to a camp at a US military installation in Cuba?

    The process of arresting them, putting them on a plane and transporting them to a place beyond the reach of American courts. “The due process of law” can be disregarded – who’s going to do anything about it?

    4
  19. Beth Avatar
    Beth

    1. It is WILD to me that we are in a full blown constitutional crisis and the cis-hets are all [shrug].

    2. @Neil Hudelson:

    if you haven’t yet please consider renewing your passport this weekend before that department’s budget is suspended on a whim.

    If you are Trans you should absolutely not do this. That ship has sailed. There seems to be some indication that a name change would go through, but there’s a risk if you have a prior gender marker that you just lost your documents.

    3. This is perhaps a stupid question: other than the obvious, why can’t Cuba just expel us.

    4. I’m alive, but I don’t want to be and I very much don’t want to be in this shithole nightmare country.

    9
  20. Ken_L Avatar
    Ken_L

    @The Q: Arguments like this – “we would have won if only we’d adopted some of their positions” – overlook the obvious fact that adopting some of their positions would have meant losing some voters to whom “our” positions were important. Harris probably lost Michigan because she didn’t take a position on Gaza sufficiently different to Trump’s. I can’t imagine how many voters would have abandoned Democrats if they’d become staunch close-the-border conservatives.

    4
  21. Beth Avatar
    Beth

    @The Q:

    Dr. Taylor, respectfully, would you please consider just deleting stuff like this. It serves no purpose other than to derail and hurt. I’m not asking that you automatically nuke these things, just consider nuking them.

    I will say that I absolutely am a trans activist, and I think I work hard to do that here respectfully with the goal of doing that absolutely soul crushingly hard work of changing hearts and minds slowly. Now, I think in many ways that work here has been fruitful. I’d like you, and Dr. Joyner, know that while I have been battling my suicidal thoughts for the last couple of weeks the only Cis-Het people that have reached out to check on me or even just evidenced any concern about me has been the amazing community here. Friends I’ve known since high school have completely ignored me. Not OTB and I deeply appreciate that. I appreciate everything I’ve learned here from you. This low effort (yet extremely nasty) trolling should just be deleted like a scam call. Maybe some of the higher effort stuff is worth while (maybe?), but this is not.

    13
  22. Beth Avatar
    Beth

    @Ken_L:

    I would guess a lot. They were close to losing me, a lifelong, proud Democrat. I would have pulled the handle for her anyway cause I knew this was coming, but it was getting close. I’ll link to something that I think is accurate in the off topic.

    For what it’s worth, I think it is absolutely time to start primarying Dems like Durbin and Schumer. The old world is dead and not coming back. Those two are not up to the task.

    6
  23. Mikey Avatar
    Mikey

    @Beth: First, it’s good to see you here. I know this is a terribly difficult time.

    To answer your question 3, the open-ended lease agreement between the U. S. and Cuba has no provision for unilateral termination, and we would not agree to ending it, so they literally can’t throw us out.

    2
  24. Kathy Avatar
    Kathy

    @The Q:

    If only Hindenburg had invaded Poland and rounded up Jews…

    9
  25. al Ameda Avatar
    al Ameda

    @The Q:

    Now the howls of how I am rotten racist, homophobe in 5…4…3…2

    No need for a countdown, I’ll take your word for it.

    8
  26. Kurtz Avatar
    Kurtz

    @Beth:

    I’d like you, and Dr. Joyner, know that while I have been battling my suicidal thoughts for the last couple of weeks the only Cis-Het people that have reached out to check on me or even just evidenced any concern about me has been the amazing community here.

    I have been in and out of reading the comment section, so I did not know that you mentioned this.

    You are in my thoughts. You are not alone. I may be cis-het, so my feelings come from a different place–for different reasons–but I understand the difficulty of that battle.

    Hang in there. I wish I could offer more than digitally rendered words, but those will have to do.

    8
  27. Kurtz Avatar
    Kurtz

    @Ken_L:

    That isn’t the only problem. This was hashed out a lot on these very site in the immediate aftermath of the election. Most of the time when people claim that if the losing candidate had just done x, it is more a reflection of the writer’s personal priorities and perceptions than an accurate representation of the electorate.

    Then again, I have particular views about human behavior and epistemic processes that do not appear to be shared by many here. Specifically, I don’t trust people to know exactly why they do what they do.*

    So, YMMV.

    *Not a shot fired at Bernius. Love that guy. But he was who I had in mind, because in the days following the election, he cautioned to wait for more data before drawing conclusions about what mistakes a campaign did or did not make.

    I do not agree that the data can tell us all that much. But I could be wrong.

    3
  28. Gustopher Avatar
    Gustopher

    @The Q:

    Just think, all this insanity could have been avoided

    A lot of people don’t care about policies as much as you seem to think they do. They care that someone is going to fight for them. Running to the center doesn’t convey that.

    @Ken_L:

    Harris probably lost Michigan because she didn’t take a position on Gaza sufficiently different to Trump’s.

    And let’s remember that the pro-Palestine folks were not at all subtle — the Uncommitted votes in the primary were meant as a message. That was over 100,000 voters who bothered to show up an uncontested primary and say “fuck you.” More than Harris lost by to Trump. Harris needed to either get those voters back in the coalition, or find other voters.

    I don’t think The Q has any path to getting a replacement for the voters he tosses away.

    2
  29. Gustopher Avatar
    Gustopher

    @Beth: Yey, Beth lives! I do wish you wanted to live, but we’ll take what we can get for the moment.

    I’m sorry everything is horrible. In times like this, I draw strength and motivation from spite. Hopefully you can find something better.

    6
  30. DK Avatar
    DK

    @The Q:

    Just think, all this insanity could have been avoided

    Doubtful. One, there was a global anti-incumbent panic.

    Two, in this country, too many voters are so immature and easily-manipulated they actually believe MAGA propaganda about illegal migrant trans drag woke DEI hire CRT migrant schoolchildren in prisons. Serious, smart adults (92% of black women, 88% of Jewish women, 86% of LGBT, 78% of black men, 72% of Jewish men) voted for Democratic campaigns focused on solving real problems like housing, healthcare, and climate change. But they were drowned on by the white nonsense of the antiwoke mob this year.

    Harris “simply” denying she wanted trans illegal alien woke DEI hire cat-eating CRT Haitian migrants not to drag the children (or something) would not have overcome that one-two punch to win the hysterics primed to fall for such stupid nonsense.

    Certain voters were determined to touch the stove, and there was no way to help them avoid burning themselves. Now they are paying more for coffee and eggs, while the right plots to sacrifice their healthcare coverage to the Republican oligarchy behind 9 of the 10 poorest states and 95 of the 100 poorest counties.

    White nonsense has consequences. Sad for those who qualify as collateral damage, but as for Trump voters getting exactly what they voted for, oh well.

    8
  31. just nutha Avatar
    just nutha

    @CSK: I’m willing to roll the dice on President Vance. Why not deport Trump too?

    1
  32. Flat Earth Luddite Avatar
    Flat Earth Luddite

    @Beth:

    Seconding Gus’s and others here, that I’m glad you haven’t taken that short step to the long dark. I value you and your take on the world. Whatever the heck I may identify as (cis/het/old fart/felon, etc), you’re needed in my life, if only ephemerally on the interwebs.

    Nevermind the silence or mockery of those who ignore you and your pain. If you’d like to reach out, our hosts have my permission to release my email to you. Ok?

    6
  33. Flat Earth Luddite Avatar
    Flat Earth Luddite

    @Gustopher:

    Well said. Spite is a powerful motivation.

    For most of my adult life, my goal has been to outlive my enemies. For those I don’t outlive, they’re invited to dance on my grave. Services will be past Bouy 6 at illwaco

    2
  34. DK Avatar
    DK

    @Gustopher:

    I don’t think The Q has any path to getting a replacement for the voters he tosses away.

    As is typical for keyboard warriors who have all the “simple” fixes on how to win elections, it’s unlikely The Q has ever run for or been elected to anything of note. People who’ve actually been tapped to lead organizations successfully usually don’t utter such foolish statements. It’s always the ones who couldn’t get elected dog catcher in a race where they were the only candidate — and their family the only voters — who somehow know all the “easy” and “simple” fixes. Funny that.

    5
  35. Richard Gardner Avatar
    Richard Gardner

    I have never been to Gitmo but know folks who have worked there (including lawyers at that facility). I have an engineering and government finance background and I go, nope. Empty rhetoric. That part of Cuba is desert. The logistics involved is lots of important details, like water. The desalinization plant needs to be massively expanded for 30K (plus 30K support staff, etc), but that requires lots of power so additional generators are needed (at least Reverse Osmosis needs 15% of the power of old steam distillation), so need more places to store Diesel, etc. Then you need the housing for the staff that are NOT going to live in non-air conditioned tents (though Trump would want to do a Sheriff Joe of AZ misery camp, but sorry, you still need nice stuff for the staff).
    In WW II the USA could have thrown this together in 2 months but not today, more like 2 years (or 3 or 4 – as I review a draft EIS from 2019 that was recently (massively) amended for a similar sized project – DEIS is 2200 pages, inane].

    I’d be interested in Kathy’s take on the Latin American take as I know Cuba and Gitmo is a hot topic (if she can keep away from adjectives in front of Trump’s name (like rapist) – her posts are reading like Trump pronouncements with excess adjectives – maybe that is her point? Is it mockery? If not, you are getting boring).

    The hysteria I’m seeing from folks that doesn’t match my reality,. You are falling for fear and doom hype. I wonder who is feeding and profiting off this doom-gloom cycle (I’m sorry Beth is in this cycle and I think you are being played. But by whom? Do not give in to fear is my view, but ask for more info – and if “they,” ask “who they” Boogie-man)

    And so many instances of Godwin’s Law of late. And then there is Q – nope, go away.

    2
  36. drj Avatar
    drj

    @Richard Gardner:

    The logistics involved

    “We want to, but we can’t right now” isn’t particularly reassuring when it comes to building concentration camps. Just saying.

    @Beth:

    I have been thinking about you and I hope you manage, somehow.

    6
  37. Jen Avatar
    Jen

    @Beth: Beth, good to see you. I’m thinking of you and value your input and your presence, and want you on this big blue rock. xox

    3
  38. Jen Avatar
    Jen

    @The Q: You genuinely do not understand electoral politics, or the electorate, if you believe that.

    2
  39. Kathy Avatar
    Kathy

    @Richard Gardner:

    I use the titles people like the felon rapist or the nazi in chief have worked so hard to earn.

    1
  40. Steven L. Taylor Avatar
    Steven L. Taylor

    @Beth: I am truly sorry about your suicidal thoughts I hope that you are getting help to address them.

    I certainly do not want this site to contribute to negativity.

    I have, as you can see, deleted and responded to the comment above.

    Stay strong.

    2
  41. Steven L. Taylor Avatar
    Steven L. Taylor

    @al Ameda: It is almost certainly a good idea that if one ever thinks “Hey, my comments are going to be interpreted as racist, bigoted, homophobic, transphobic, or in any way offensive to whole groups of people” that maybe I should rethink the comment.

    And to TheQ: I hope that maybe, instead of getting angry and defensive, you consider the way in which things we say can be hurtful to others.

    One of the main problems with our entire discourse on trans persons is that a lot of people are unwilling to afford them basic respect as human beings.

    4
  42. Steven L. Taylor Avatar
    Steven L. Taylor

    @Jay L Gischer and @Richard Gardner: I agree with @Kurtz, it matters that the POTUS is opining about these things less than two weeks after taking office.

    People keep wanting to treat him like a buffoon. I understand that, as I still have a hard time not doing so myself.

    He is in office and is trying mightily to assert power in ways no president has done. He may yet fail, and there will be clear failures along the way (as there have already been). But there are going to be successes as well.

    Part of this is the creation of an unreality where it is hard to know what is actually happening, what might happen, and what won’t/can’t happen.

    I would note, too, that 30k beds may be crazy talk, but that doesn’t stop the basic notion of trying to ship a smaller number to Gitmo.

    3
  43. charontwo Avatar
    charontwo

    @Kathy:

    I use the titles people like the felon rapist or the nazi in chief have worked so hard to earn.

    Didn’t our site hosts here say something regarding references to Trump, maybe act like mature adults.

    It’s their site, I save alternate appellations for elsewhere.

  44. Neil Hudelson Avatar
    Neil Hudelson

    @Richard Gardner:

    I hear the cries that people are ‘falling’ for Trump’s antics, and maybe this is just an antic to get The Libs (TM) into a tizzy.

    But sometimes when someone’s raising their fist and saying their gonna punch you, you just gotta punch back, even if that’s what they want. Yeah, there are a lot of logistics involved, so much so that maybe this Gitmo plan would never take off. But if there’s not a reaction, if there’s not a punch to the throat, it’s a clear signal to him to start building concentration camps where its more logistically friendly. You don’t think if there was silence after this announcement, we would start seeing new plans in Alabama, Idaho, Indiana, Texas, etc?

    I do.

    4
  45. Beth Avatar
    Beth

    @Richard Gardner:

    The hysteria I’m seeing from folks that doesn’t match my reality,. You are falling for fear and doom hype. I wonder who is feeding and profiting off this doom-gloom cycle (I’m sorry Beth is in this cycle and I think you are being played. But by whom? Do not give in to fear is my view, but ask for more info – and if “they,” ask “who they” Boogie-man)

    You are far too sanguine about this. The “they” for me and my community is the various GOP politicians, the bigots, the State Dept, the FDA, ect. Have you read any of the EOs calling us false and inherently deceitful? Have you read any of the garbage demanding we be kept out of bathrooms because various bigots claim we are inherently violent and dangerous? Did you grow up watching Maury Povich parade trans women about as a joke? Do you get to read every day that kids should not be supported in their transitions and know that your life would have been immensely better if you were supported and not tortured? What The Q (and quite frankly most people) mean when they say that kids shouldn’t be allowed to transition is that they should be tortured until they stop. Most people wouldn’t call it torture, they’d sanitize it cause they don’t want to feel bad about torturing kids. They don’t want to think about how, because I went through a testosterone fueled puberty, I had to have my face peeled back and my orbital bone shaved off, they don’t want to think about the fact that I am stuck with a deep voice that I can never get rid of and which outs me every time I speak.

    The they is the government that wants to ban the medication that saved my life, marriage, and relationship with my kids because of bigotry and Christian bullshit. The they is the Democrats that have decided the way to get elected is to join in and say we deserve this because we’re gross and disgusting (thanks Seth).

    Frankly, it’s a radical act of support that Dr. Taylor deleted that bigoted comment. My community needs that every day and more. We’re terrified and we have good reason to be.

    @Steven L. Taylor:

    One of the main problems with our entire discourse on trans persons is that a lot of people are unwilling to afford them basic respect as human beings.

    Thank you so much. I would be willing to have nuanced discussions about trans rights with people. Hell, most trans people understand that to live in a society means that all people have to curtail their nights to an extent, but we’re not going to do that if the starting point is “trans people are gross and shouldn’t exist.” We’re here, we’ve been here, and you can kill every last one of us and the very second you do, we will be reborn.

    We remember who we are and who came before us.

    8
  46. Matt Bernius Avatar
    Matt Bernius

    Beth,

    Just wanted to second what @Steven L. Taylor said here. I am keeping you (along with the other trans folks I know) in my thoughts. Intrusive thoughts, especially if the self harm variety, are incredibly challenging to deal with–and that’s before we get to all the very real external pressures triggering them.

    Please keep on posting and letting us know how you are doing

    4
  47. Steven L. Taylor Avatar
    Steven L. Taylor

    @charontwo: James flat doesn’t like them and has asked they not be used.

    I am less annoyed by it, but do think that their repeated usage blunts their effect and does just mimic Trump’s own juvenile behavior.

    1
  48. Jim Brown 32 Avatar
    Jim Brown 32

    @Beth: FWIW—life is experienced in Seasons. And Spring inevitably follows Winter. I’ve never been in your specific shoes but, like all, have experienced the wine press of life. In those time is helps to hold on to the certainty of a change in season if you’re in a bad winter.

    I wish you a mind of broad perspective and a little luck

    3
  49. Monala Avatar
    Monala

    @Beth: hi, Beth. I, too, am very glad to see you. I don’t know if this helps, but I wanted to respond to this comment of yours:

    I think I work hard to do that here respectfully with the goal of doing that absolutely soul crushingly hard work of changing hearts and minds slowly. Now, I think in many ways that work here has been fruitful.

    … by sharing how you have helped me in my understanding. There was a comment you made a while back about being on your period, and I recall thinking, “How could Beth have a period?”

    That question stayed with me, and sometime later, I read (probably on Reddit) a baby trans woman asking for advice about dealing with regular pain and cramping. Several people responded to let her know those were period symptoms. One thing I love about Reddit is that there is almost always someone in the comment thread who is very knowledgeable. That was true in this case: one person responded by detailing the various female hormones the young woman was taking and how they interplay to create a menstrual cycle.

    It taught me something important, and helped me understand you better. I’m post-menopausal, so I no longer have periods and I also no longer have period symptoms. I still have all my female body parts, but what I no longer have are all the various hormones cycling through my body each month. It made me realize that hormones > body parts.

    3
  50. Ken_L Avatar
    Ken_L

    @Kurtz:

    Specifically, I don’t trust people to know exactly why they do what they do.*

    Next you’ll be saying you don’t believe that poll which found 18% (or whatever the figure was) of 2020 Biden voters would have switched their vote if only they’d known about the “Hunter Biden Laptop Story™”.

  51. Kurtz Avatar
    Kurtz

    @Ken_L:

    I know this thread is dead, but I didn’t see this until now.

    I don’t think you quite understand what I am saying. That is not your fault, because I would have to go into much greater detail.

    Without seeing the particular poll, I couldn’t tell you much about it. I can say that the top line result you give seems very high. More so, beyond my general view of humans, is that I do not take much from single polls. Especially when that single pool implies that nearly 16 million people would have changed their vote over something like the Hunter Biden story.

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