19 responses to “Quote of the Day and Democratic Venting Open Thread”

1. 

   reid

   November 3, 2010 at 11:41 am

   I agree with Scalzi (first I’ve heard of him) about losing because of a mass of people who are largely just angry without understanding the issues. Complaining about big government spending, particularly health care reform, while demanding hands off social security is the obvious sign of the idiocy. But this idiocy is driven and promoted by Fox et al, so “whining” about them shouldn’t be off-limits. I don’t think the Democrats have gotten much better about exposing lies and spin, or promoting their own positive accomplishments, though. They’re still in a mode where they’re always on defense and afraid of being called liberals.
2. 

   Drew

   November 3, 2010 at 11:43 am

   What? No scotch and BB King?

   I don’t think gloating or dancing jigs are appropriate. I happen to believe this was simply a repudiation of both Congressional and Presidential leftist policy and high handedness, protestations about their centrism – and the neanderthal invocations of racism – aside.

   But as the old saying goes: be careful what you wish for. I’ll now be looking to the new Republican majority to actually govern with the sense of fiscal and regulatory sanity they professed – and to absorb the attendant slings and arrows – or off with their heads too.
3. 

   Stormy Dragon

   November 3, 2010 at 11:54 am

   I’m not thrilled with the GOP, only because I believe that all of them (Tea Party included) are all sizzle and no steak. I don’t expect any serious attempts to control spending, reduce foreign adventuring, or to protect civil liberties.

   I do expect lots of razzle dazzle and ham-fisted culture warrior stuff.
4. 

   Alex Knapp

   November 3, 2010 at 12:16 pm

   @Drew,

   When I’m happy, it’s the blues, scotch, and cigars.

   When I’m sad, it’s Merle, Kris, Johnny, Willie, bourbon, and cigarettes.
5. 

   Gary

   November 3, 2010 at 12:19 pm

   Hey Guys, I voted GOP and proud of it. We the people need to be heard Liberal or conservative.
   If this group doesn’t listen and Obama doesn’t listen we need a new group in 2012. Let’s discuss the issues and change the things that need to be corrected and go with the best solution for all not a few. Best way to do that is never give one party a super majority of both houses again.
6. 

   reid

   November 3, 2010 at 12:24 pm

   Thanks for not gloating, Drew, though I’d correct your statement to read “I happen to believe this was simply a repudiation of the PERCEPTION…” Yes, the rightwing does a good job of demonizing the left.

   And I’ll agree that I don’t expect the GOP to do much of anything, aside from maybe propose more tax cuts and obstruct from a stronger position. But even if they do stand up for their supposed principles and cut the budget/spending, do people really think that’s a good idea with the economy in the state it’s in? What’s going to happen to unemployment numbers when state and local governments no longer get help from the feds and have to lay off loads of people? And construction companies lose stimulus projects and have to lay off people? It just makes sense to me that deficit spending is good in a lousy economy and building a surplus is good in a booming economy. (Not an economist, could be wrong, etc. etc.)
7. 

   Drew

   November 3, 2010 at 12:51 pm

   reid –

   You jest keep tellin’ yerself that. Its all perception, yeah. Millions begged to differ with you last night. And the notion that the right has some monopoly on hyperbole is just absurd on its face.

   As for stimulus spending – its been a flop. I am a small business owner; I work with small business owners for a living. I can tell you first hand that regulatory burden, prospective taxation and ObamaCare, and uncertainty are crusshing small business. You can throw all the stimulus around you want, but these people have closed up shop.
8. 

   reid

   November 3, 2010 at 1:02 pm

   Drew: I know you’re a hardcore rightwinger, so I don’t expect you to agree. Fine. I’ll just point out that I didn’t say the right has a monopoly on hyperbole, but that the right does a much better job of it, and I think it’s swayed a lot of people. Millions of people voting R last night doesn’t disprove anything along those lines.

   I also know you’re paranoid about regulations and taxation, but you didn’t address my points about cutting spending affecting unemployment. It seems like a pretty clear case of cause and effect. Do you believe that what will surely be large government sector (and related private industry) layoffs being offset by some private sector boom? Sounds like fantasy to me, especially since unemployed people tend not to demand a lot of goods.
9. 

   Neil Hudelson

   November 3, 2010 at 1:07 pm

   One good thing about last night:

   As I watched the election results come in stating that, almost entirely, my homestate of Indiana had gone red (even to the smallest town office), I was able to have a longer and harder workout on the ol’ stationary bike than I have had in years.

   So there’s that. Anger does help some places.
10. 

    Drew

    November 3, 2010 at 1:12 pm

    “Drew: I know you’re a hardcore rightwinger”

    Actually, if you really knew anything about me you would know that my general worldview is libertarian, but since that stance has no practical impact in politics, I tend to vote Republican.

    “I’ll just point out that I didn’t say the right has a monopoly on hyperbole, but that the right does a much better job of it, and I think it’s swayed a lot of people.”

    You jest keep tellin’ yerself that.

    “I also know you’re paranoid about regulations and taxation”

    Experienced, not paranoid.

    “but you didn’t address my points about cutting spending affecting unemployment.”

    Because its a bizarre worldview. Did the stimulus get spent wisely, and have the effect predicted by the Congress and Administration? No. Its an empirical fact.

    “Do you believe that what will surely be large government sector (and related private industry) layoffs being offset by some private sector boom?”

    Absolutely. I’ll take private enterprise employing the financial, personal and intellectual capital of the country over government anyday. Anyday. And let’s face it, the lab experiment is underway. What was that unemployment rate again?
11. 

    reid

    November 3, 2010 at 1:17 pm

    Drew: As expected, a hyper-ideological answer. “Government bad, private industry good!” “Stimulus totally bad because unemployment higher than promised, grunt!” Blah.
12. 

    Drew

    November 3, 2010 at 1:32 pm

    “Drew: As expected, a hyper-ideological answer. “Government bad, private industry good!” “Stimulus totally bad because unemployment higher than promised, grunt!” Blah.”

    You can say “blah,” “grunt,” and “hyper-ideological” all you want. But the fact remains that the economic result has been abysmal. The Dems have been in control of Congress for 4 years, the White House and Congress for 2. Its a fact; and its pretty ugly. And there are real people out there suffering for it. As someone in the thick of business and who hears on an almost daily basis that the current Congress and Administration have them in idling mode, I think you, rather than I, needs to question ideology, and decide if you want to actually get this economic engine going again, or hold on to your precious ideology. Did you pull the wings off flies as a kid?
13. 

    Gerry W.

    November 3, 2010 at 2:43 pm

    The democrats may not know what they are doing. but to blame them for the condition of the economy is unwarranted. We saw “stay the course” failing long before the democrats came into power. You cannot run a country with just tax cuts and ignore problems (laissez-faire), and you cannot just spend money on war and ignore the infrastructure. Now, there is plenty of blame going around, but we saw the republican ideology of tax cuts and laissez-faire and it did not work.

    During the time Bush was president, he came to Ohio and said “free trade is good” and we saw our factories close. We have long term structural problems, and we need to find a way to create jobs in our country when you have 2 billion cheap laborers who want our jobs. And I don’t see anyone who has a grip on the situation. The Bush tax cuts was for the “here and now” and is spent money. It does us little good when factories are closed. Bush got out of town with his ideology collapsing.

    Today, we hear John Boehner, say he supports small business. And I ask: How can one support small business when the factories have closed. Small business needs traffic and employed people with money to support them.

    Now, here is an idea. I live in a town that has factories closed. It maybe too late to rescue, but a better bang for our buck and for small business is not having tax cuts, but to spend the billions to fix city centers and stop the urban sprawl. There are too many empty buildings. People have abandoned the center of the city. You can have a park, an area where bands can play, make a deal with a big box store to come downtown, and whatever else to get people downtown and it will help small business. This would be better money spent, with our infrastructure deteriorating, than tax cuts. We also need to have policies to deal with globalization. Again, this just gets ignored with tax cuts and laissez-faire.
14. 

    reid

    November 3, 2010 at 3:05 pm

    Yes, Drew, it’s always someone else who’s wrong. The groundwork was laid for the economy going down the toilet over many years leading up to 2008 and things have been slowly improving over the last few, but it’s all the Democrats’ fault. Blah again, and there’s clearly no point in continuing this because no one will ever shake your certainty that you’re right.
15. 

    Drew

    November 3, 2010 at 4:00 pm

    “Blah again, and there’s clearly no point in continuing this because no one will ever shake your certainty that you’re right.”

    Your inability to carry on a debate has been properly noted.
16. 

    Grewgills

    November 3, 2010 at 4:18 pm

    Drew,
    What about “Here, leave us alone with our bottle of whiskey and our Merle Haggard.” did you fail to understand?
17. 

    Boyd

    November 3, 2010 at 5:06 pm

    Yeah, Drew, SFTU. I wanted to sit back and savor the tears of the whining losers, but you get all argue-y with them. Can you not be quiet and sup on their pain and angst?
18. 

    Drew

    November 3, 2010 at 5:19 pm

    Sniff. I’m sorry, man. (breaking into tears) I’l just go over here, tail between my legs, and curl up and have a nap.
19. 

    An Interested Party

    November 3, 2010 at 11:05 pm

    “I wanted to sit back and savor the tears of the whining losers…”

    I suppose you deserve that, after all, in 2006 and 2008, you were probably the whining loser…which points to the fact that all these victories and losses seem quite temporary…