22 responses to “Kristol on Trump’s Authoritarianism”

1. 

   Not the IT Dept.

   January 31, 2025 at 12:55 pm

   If there is one Republican who really should STFU it’s Bill Kristol. Kristol was the genius who urged Sarah Palin (remember her?) on the GOP and the McCain campaign, and who was on the wrong side of everything during the Bush II years. Kristol owes the American public a really big mea culpa before he opens his piehole again. Nice that he’s anti-Trump but pardon me for thinking he’d be there in a nanosecond if Trump were to seek his advice.

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2. 

   DK

   January 31, 2025 at 12:59 pm

   Who’s responsible for the plight of “Real Americans,”

   Greedy oligarchs and corporate mavens like Trump, Musk, Bezos, Zuckerberg, the late Brian Thompson (R.I.P.), etc. — and their kind’s conspiracy of price gouging, slave wages, enshittification, and lobbying against quality-of-life legislation.

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3. 

   Moosebreath

   January 31, 2025 at 1:08 pm

   “Trump has understood the political utility of scapegoating minorities.”

   So have the majority of Republicans elected since at least Nixon.

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4. 

   Matt Bernius

   January 31, 2025 at 2:12 pm

   @Not the IT Dept.:
   FWIW, I completely agree. Just because Kristol is right on something doesn’t mean we need to amplify him. Who to amplify and why is something I think about a lot.

   Personally, I try to avoid “even [so and so] says X,” if [so and so] is something I think is wrong on most topics.

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5. 

   gVOR10

   January 31, 2025 at 2:28 pm

   Coincidentally, I came here right after reading Ross Douthat’s interview with Steve Bannon in NYT. More on that later, time permitting. Do we remember how Douthat got his cushy job at NYT? NYT did a long, thorough search for a good conservative columnist to replace Bill Kristol, then they settled for Douthat. And why did they have to replace Kristol? Because he was caught lying in his columns too blatantly even for the Opinion page.

   This seems relevant to the discussion on other threads about Republicans lying, which I think should include the intellectual honesty of pundits. It would seem that back in Kristol’s day NYT saw no need to fact check opinion pieces. IRRC they made statements at the time that it was opinion, it would be wrong to check facts. Douthat seems to still be receiving little editorial oversight. Compare this to the situation that caused Paul Krugman to bail from NYT.

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6. 

   Liberal Capitalist

   January 31, 2025 at 3:07 pm

   Please also see:

   https://paulkrugman.substack.com/p/oppose-oppose-oppose-and-do-it-loudly

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7. 

   Jen

   January 31, 2025 at 3:47 pm

   @MBunge: Ah, so the “you made me hit you” defense.

   Just stop. No one is buying your garbage takes. There is nothing, absolutely nothing, that excuses these blatantly anti-democratic and unconstitutional moves. Nothing.

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8. 

   Steven L. Taylor

   January 31, 2025 at 4:50 pm

   @Not the IT Dept.: Alternative take: maybe people should be allowed to change their minds and learn, especially when they do so very publically.

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9. 

   Steven L. Taylor

   January 31, 2025 at 4:53 pm

   @Matt Bernius: FWIW. I agree with the “Even X says…” approach. That isn’t what I was intending here.

   But also, as noted, I think Kristol, and the Bulwark in general, has been quite good on the subject of Trump.

   And in the case of the above, I think he is correct.

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10. 

    Steven L. Taylor

    January 31, 2025 at 4:54 pm

    @Jen: FWIW, Bunge should be ignored.

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11. 

    Kurtz

    January 31, 2025 at 4:55 pm

    @MBunge:

    I am going to ignore the obvious problems with your post wrt authoritarianism and the ridiculous working you used. Also, I will eschew making the obvious arguments about Trump’s relationship to the rule of law.

    A link, which is exactly one more than you provided:

    If it was such a crisis, then why did Trump argue against a solution, even if it was not his preferred plan? I mean, if these immigrants are a danger, any reduction in undocumented migrants would be a net good, no?

    Well, he told us:

    “You don’t need a border bill,” Trump said in a recent radio interview, as he drummed up opposition to the package. “We had the safest border in the history of our country. I didn’t need a bill.” In a Truth Social post Tuesday, he went further: “ALL A PRESIDENT HAS TO DO IS SAY, ‘CLOSE THE BORDER,’ AND THE BORDER WILL BE CLOSED. A COSTLY NEW BILL IS NOT NECESSARY!”

    Oh, I see. Then why didn’t he do it?

    Supporters of the doomed deal argued that Trump and his allies were rewriting history. Crossings repeatedly hit new highs during Trump’s presidency, they point out. Trump was also sometimes stymied by the courts when he acted unilaterally, because the right to request asylum regardless of where a person enters the U.S. is currently embedded in immigration law. At times, he demanded Congress help him get around these issues by passing new legislation.

    Oh, right. Because he claims one thing, only to find out that it doesn’t work that way once he actually has to implement a policy.

    For emphasis, I have omitted, the Congress person who responded to Trump’s claim:

    In a floor speech on Tuesday, [redacted], scoffed at Trump’s claim that a president could shut down the border at will. “With all due respect, that didn’t happen in 2017, ’18, ’19, and ’20,” he said. “There were millions of people who came into the United States during those four years.” Roy opposed the Senate measure, but has argued that House Republicans should push to pass their own hardline legislation.

    That crazy Democrat is lyi–oh, it was Chip Roy. Who also wouldn’t accept a deal unless it was everything he wanted.

    So it was such a crisis, such a threat to the safety of Americans, that Congressional hard-liners would settle for nothing over something. Note nobody claimed that the deal would make things worse. They refused to do anything at all. So either, a.) they were exaggerating the problem; or b.) they abdicated their duty.

    There is far more at the link. Full disclosure, some of it indicts the Biden admin. I say this, not because I am taking a position, but to show that the premise of your post is, to use a technical term, bullshit.

    Moreover, how about you go find some violent crimes committed by undocumented migrants between the collapse of that legislation and inauguration so you can pin that tail on the asses named Donald and Chip? Because it is quite possible that person would have been sent packing if that bill passed.) I mean, I never see any of you blame Trump for any crimes committed by individuals or groups who crossed the border illegally during his administration.

    Speaking of that….

    Here here is the full article I will discuss in brief below. If you don’t like reading, the charts are useful.

    Links to the two charts:

    First, the largest net change, year-over-year in total undocumented residents occurred during the Obama admin. You gave Obama credit for that, right?

    I mean, it’s not as if Trump based his 2016 campaign on the border or anything. The irony is that that was the central point of his campaign back then, and he tried for four years to fix it. Yet, for all that effort, he somehow managed to get a less than 10% drop in the total undocumented population.

    Granted, as of 2023, the total of the undocumented population crept back almost to its 2008 level.

    So, sure. You can bang Biden for that, if you wish. But immigration is complex. (who knew?).

    And again, if it was so easy, why wasn’t Trump way more successful than his Kenyan-born (lololol) predecessor? Also, who stopped Biden and Congressional Dems from passing reform? Oh, right…it was Trump and some members of Congress who behave like 9th graders.

    Three, the increase is hardly unprecedented. That chart has two different sources using different methodologies, so they may not line up, but there was a larger increase from 2000-2001. Even if the 2023 numbers are off by a lot, it is unlikely to be so much that it goes much higher than that. Either way, your claim is way overblown.

    —

    In short, you better bring receipts when you comment here rather than warrantless claims and tacit admissions that your side is authoritarian (but only because Biden made them do it). That won’t cut it.

    Come with substance or go play on the monkey bars.

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12. 

    Steven L. Taylor

    January 31, 2025 at 5:03 pm

    One more comment on Kristol: I fully understand the opprobrium sent his direction. By quoting him I am not saying “all is forgiven.”

    But I will say that I would rather have GOP full of Kristol’s, especially the one I have been encountering since around 2017, than the GOP we currently have.

    And it is exhausting enough to sort through the relentless BS of the current admin for me to get super worked up over pre-Trump Escalator errors if people have chosen the right side post-Escalator.

    But no, I am not excusing his endorsement of Palin.

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13. 

    Kurtz

    January 31, 2025 at 5:12 pm

    @Steven L. Taylor:

    Yeah, MBunge should be ignored.

    But I’m on one today (also see the comment on the FAA post.) This is not good. A couple weeks into this administration, and wading through the obvious bullshit is already getting to me.

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14. 

    Jen

    January 31, 2025 at 5:14 pm

    @Steven L. Taylor: Ah, thanks. I do get the contrarian set mixed up sometimes and forget which ones are worth engaging and which ones are not. Thank you.

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15. 

    Steven L. Taylor

    January 31, 2025 at 5:25 pm

    @Jen: It’s hard to keep track. He is banned, but just can’t quit us.

    @Kurtz: It has been a long two weeks. I totally get it.

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16. 

    Matt Bernius

    January 31, 2025 at 5:25 pm

    @Steven L. Taylor:
    For the record, I didn’t think you were. I also think its really challenging to do at times like these.

    FWIW, I’ve been trying to write something about Turley’s negative reaction to the J6 pardons (and Sowell’s strong feelings again tariffs) and NOT turn it into an “even X agrees that” posting.

    The tl;dr isn’t to say this is a reason to agree with either of them, but rather what should this mean to the people who always say they are right?

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17. 

    DK

    January 31, 2025 at 5:30 pm

    @Steven L. Taylor: This. Anti-Trumpers of all stripes and backgrounds need to be united atm — focused on defending American values and Western civilization from the MAGA’s disgusting perverts, Nazis, and freaks.

    This is no time for purity purges. We can go back to sorting and backbiting later. Kristol despises Donald Trump. That’s what matters c. 2025, so it’s good enough for now.

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18. 

    Jen

    January 31, 2025 at 5:41 pm

    Trump has removed all information from health websites across the board.

    This includes data and research that is the property of the American people–we paid to have this research conducted, it belongs TO US.

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19. 

    Not the IT Dept.

    January 31, 2025 at 5:59 pm

    @Steven L. Taylor:

    There’s such a thing as admitting he might have had something to do with the GOP descent into authoritarian fervor. Nice that Kristol changed his mind. But some time in the basement of repentance might be a good thing too.

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20. 

    Eusebio

    January 31, 2025 at 7:11 pm

    @Steven L. Taylor:
    Agree that the Bulwark has been quite good on the subject of Trump, but when I want to hear from their cast of former republicans, I tend to skim or skip over Bill Kristol. I didn’t even remember that he pushed Palin on the McCain campaign, but her selection did result in a snap change in my support from McCain to Obama. I do recall that Kristol, like Cheney, indicated that Iraq had a role in the 9/11 attacks.

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21. 

    Steven L. Taylor

    January 31, 2025 at 7:34 pm

    @Not the IT Dept.: I mean, sure. But also: at this point, I have bigger issues to deal with.

    @Eusebio: Palin was the final nail in the coffin for me, as well. And yes, Kristol’s WoT stuff wasn’t good.

    But, in fairness to the entirety of the Trump administration, I can’t get too worked up about getting some pound of flesh out of Bill Kristol at the moment.

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22. 

    Me

    February 3, 2025 at 12:15 am

    I guess we’re just going to ignore Trump and Musk shutting off the USAID CIA front while they investigate corruption and the theft of taxpayer funds and release what they find it as they find it because… that’s what an authoritarian would do…sure, that’s logical. I’m no fan of Trump, but I refuse to pretend he’s an authoritarian at this point, and so far in his short term he’s turning the deep state, bureaucratic oligarchy upside down, something LOOONG overdue. Keep pretending though, reality isn’t for everyone!